Tobacco Documents Online

1399 865 I0 15 2O 25 what we would like to see in your final judgement. That well may be very different from what my friend has just read to you from the Globe & Mail, which may be an independent editorial, independently determined, them having listened to the evidence. I don't know. I have not talked to them, My Lord. But this trial is going to be difficult enough without the issuance or the attempt, even, by my friend to obtain the issuance of a contempt order. So my own recommendation would be to allow tempers to cool somewhat, let the trial proceed in as calm a fashion as possible and you, yourself, will monitor, I'm sure aided by my friends from time to time, what the press does and doesn't do. Interestingly enough... THE COURT: And, I assume, by your side too. Me BAKER: I beg your pardon? THE COURT: And, I assume, by your side too. Me BAKER: In terms of not talking to the... THE COURT: Being aided to make sure that this trial is conducted in an orderly fashion and according to the rules of sub AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Divi,io,~ de Pierre Vilaire & As~.o¢i4s LtEe

1400 866 I0 15 2O 25 judice. Me BAKER: That goes without saying. Simply, to put some of Mr. Irving's remarks in context, I hadn't intended to raise the issue directly, but I read in the Globe & Mail, on the twenty-ninth (29th) of September, nineteen eighty-nine (1989) -- the editorial to which you're referring is on the thirtieth (30th) -- an article encaptioned "Cigarette firm says ads aimed at customers". Now, the last sentence in that article reads: "Imperial Tobacco earned three hundred and eight million dollars ($308,000,000.00) in nineteen eighty-eight (1988) on sales of over two billion dollars ($2,000,000,000.00)." Now, My Lord, there is no evidence in this trial, at that point, to the effect that Imperial Tobacco earned three hundred and eight million dollars ($308,000,000.00). So, you know, maybe my friends might want to consider, before bringing a contempt motion against the Globe, the entire issue of press relations as raised by Your Lordship at the very beginning of the trial, and I have nothing further to say on the issue. THE COURT: I will advise on that matter at a later date. AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & As,o¢i~s Ll~e

1401 867 Me IRVING: Thank you, My Lord. My Lord, I have an extra copy of it, if you'd rather just have a copy than the whole. 5 THE COURT: No, I want to have the actual. Let us proceed. AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & Associgs Ll~e

1402 868 i0 15 2O 25 In the year of Our Lord nineteen hundred and eighty-nine (1989), on this third (3rd) day of the month of October, PERSONALLY CAME AND APPEARED: ROY DONALD BROWN, WHO, having been duly sworn on the Holy Bible, doth depose and say as follows: Me POTTER: My Lord, I -- we're somewhat in the hands of Mr. Baker. Mr. Brown made three (3) undertakings yesterday to see what he could find out for this morning. I'm happy to lead him through those undertakings or simply to leave him to Mr. Baker's devices. I don't know which we would all prefer. Me BAKER: Devices or tender mercies, Mr. Potter? There was, at the close of proceedings yesterday, an undertaking made by Mr. Brown, My Lord, to seek information at Imperial Tobacco to determine whether there were health studies. So... Me POTTER: That is an undertaking to which I will reply, My Lord. Mr. Brown has done some looking but because of the AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & Associ~s Ltee

1403 869 i0 15 2O 25 shortness of time, I've done some looking too, and I'm able to respond to that undertaking and to make further undertakings which I hope will satisfy Mr. Baker. Me BAKER: Well, as Your Lordship knows, there were three (3) undertakings... THE COURT: Well, let's start with the first one you've requested him in the morning. Me BAKER: Yes, that's what I was going to suggest. "Provide earnings for Imperial Tobacco for the years 1976 through 1987." Me POTTER: Well, the question was on earnings, but the ... Me BAKER: The request was for a financial statement. Me POTTER: ...the undertaking was for the financial statements. We have all those financial statements here, My Lord. If it's the earnings that Mr. Baker is interested in, what I propose is that we prepare a table of the earnings from tobacco operations over those ten (i0) years. Me BAKER: You're very kind, Mr. Potter. I also asked for the AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & As$oci@s

1404 870 5 i0 15 2O 25 financial statements. They are here, I would like to take possession of them. If it's useful and necessary and relevant to file them, I will attempt to do, if not I will simply return them to Mr. Potter as I returned the RJR financial statements to Mr. Irving, My Lord. I have no need to clutter the record unnecessarily. Me POTTER: We've no objection. Me BAKER: Thank you. Could I have them, please? Me POTTER: There you go. Me POTTER: There -- Mr. Baker, just so that you know you have a couple of copies of each year's, of financial statements of Imasco, the parent company of Imperial -- and the earnings figures which you will find are in the paragraphs following the letter from the President in each report. Me BAKER: These are financial statements of Imasco. Do we take it that there is no specific financial statement for Imperial Tobacco? Me POTTER: The only financial statement which will give you an AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilolre & A,soci~s U~e

1405 871 i0 15 2O 25 accurate figure of earnings from all tobacco operations are the Imasco financial statements. THE COURT: That's what you're looking for. Me BAKER: We'll start with these and see where we go. Correspondence in respect of Wonderland. A- My Lord, we endeavoured to find out from our files -- as I recall, ~I was asked about the demographic information we had regarding the attendance of Canada's Wonderland. Now, what we have been able to find is internal correspondence that quotes what our understanding, at that time, was of the age segmentation of the attendees at Canada's Wonderland. This is a document from nineteen eighty-three (1983) and the only reference we can find. In addition, there's other correspondence relevant to our advertising at Canada's Wonderland included here. Q- Could I see the correspondence, please, Mr. Brown? A- My Lord, on the very last page... Q- Could you just hold on for a moment, please, Mr. Brown? If I might, My Lord, have a moment just to read this? Mr. Brown, you've handed me a package of documents. We'll start from the back, if you don't mind. I see a memo dated the seventeenth (17th) of January, nineteen AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & Associ@s Lt@e

1406 872 i0 15 2O 25 eighty-three (1983). Can I take it that this is the only document you were able to obtain that deals with the demographics of people going to Wonderland? That's correct. I see on page two (2) of this memo that there is an age segmentation and it's bracketed three (3) to seventeen (17) years, eighteen (18) to forty-nine (49), fifty (50) to sixty-four (64) and sixty-five (65) and over? That's correct. And twenty-four percent (24%) of the people attending were in the three (3) to seventeen (17) year old age bracket? That's correct. Now, there is a series of letters, one (i) from the Minister of Health to Mr. Tennyson, the President of Imperial Tobacco thanking him for discontinuing advertising at Canada's Wonderland. There's a letter from Mr. Tennyson to Mr. Epp, the Minister, on the thirtieth (30th) of September, eighty-five ('85), advising the Minister that Imperial would not renew. And just before that letter, there was a letter from Mr. Epp, the Minister to Mr. Tennyson, of complaint, and then an internal memorandum. Is that correct? That's correct. AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pierre Vilaire & Associ~s Uee

1407 873 5 10 15 2O 25 Me BAKER: Would you file these documents en liasse as Attorney General's Exhibit -- vingt-trois (23). My Lord, that deals with two (2) of the three (3) undertakings and I understand Mr. Potter wished to speak to the issue of the third (3rd). Me POTTER: Yes, the third (3rd) undertaking, My Lord, was made at the end of the day and we were to seek all scientific studies directly or indirectly commissioned from Imperial Tobacco regarding the consequences on the living organism of the consumption of tobacco smoke, and Mr. Baker made specific reference to the CTMC and to a company called BAT. And overnight, what we've been able to do, My Lord, is do some work. This work has been done under reserve of the objection which we made yesterday -- an objection based on relevance and an objection which you, yourself, took under reserve. And the documents which we have been able to look at go back five (5) years and they can be divided roughly into two (2) categories, My Lord. The first (ist) category, I believe, responds to Mr. Baker's request, if it's -- if it's a pertinent request, and the second (2nd) category, I mention out of a desire to be complete, but I believe it does not respond to the request. The first (ist) AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Division de Pie,re Viioire & Associ~s L,ee

1408 874 5 i0 15 20 25 category is work, in fact, produced by researchers using money obtained either directly or indirectly from Imperial and which indeed has to do with the effects of tobacco on either animals or humans. I'm informed that all the results of that work have been published and are available in the public domain and I am prepared to advise Mr. Baker either where they may be found or the references to them or even if he wishes, under reserve of my objection regarding evidence, to make copies of those reports and give them to him. I am also prepared to continue my research to find whether there are any further results of that research which are unpublished and to advise Mr. Baker. The second (2nd) area, the second (2nd) category, are not the results of studies, so I believe right there they do not respond to Mr. Baker. They are the results of occasional tests, and these occasional tests are done in the context of product development, done either by Imperial or by BAT, and that product development has to do with attempts to develop a tobacco product which will produce a smoke having fewer of the constituents which are mentioned in Exhibit AG-7 and that these products, which are being produced as part of a product development, are occasionally tested and they are not tested in terms of effects on health, which was Mr. Baker's request, but in AUDIOTRANSCRIPT, Divi,lon de Pierre Vileire & A,soci~, L,~e