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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance Fund; Et Al. Vs. Philip Morris, Incorporated; Et Al. Deposition of Richard J. Marcotullio.

Date: 30 Oct 1998
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT'COURT NORTH DISTRICT OF OHIO, EASTERN DIVISION 0 IRON WORKERS LOCAL UNION NO. ) 17 INSURANCE FUND; et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) 1 vs. ) No. 1:97 CV 1422 ) PHILIP MORRIS, INCORPORATED; ) et al., ; CERTIFIED Defendants. ) CO PY ) DEPOSITION OF RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO Los,Angeles, California Friday, October 30, 1998 Reported by: LYNN ZINK CSR No. 9466 JOB No. 89782 ESQUIREM DEPOSITION SERVICES 6222 Wilshire Boulevard • Suite 204 • Los Angeles, CA 90048 323.938.2461 • Fax 323.931.3016 • 800.640.2461 co: case nana,,,-re^t
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• 1 2 r 3 4 ~ 5 6 0 7 8 9 10 11 12 + 13 14 15 a 16 17 0 18 19 20 21 22 23 40 24 25 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTH DISTRICT OF OHIO, EASTERN DIVISION IRON WORKERS LOCAL UNION NO. ) 17 INSURANCE FUND; et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. 1:97 CV 1422 ) PHILIP MORRIS, INCORPORATED; ) et al., ) ) Defendants. ) ) Deposition of RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO, taken on behalf of Plaintiffs, at 1880 Century Park East, Suite 1114, Los Angeles, California, beginning at 10:03 a.m. and ending at 3:52 p.m. on Friday, October 30, 1998, before LYNN ZINK, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 9466. c.n ~,. a v rv W + 0 cc: case management U Q, 0 1 2
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• 1 M 2 3 4 0 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 r 18 7. 9 20 + 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES: For Plaintiffs: STRITMATTER KESSLER WHELAN WITHEY BY: MICHAEL E. WITHEY Attorney at Law 1200 Market Place Tower 2025 First Avenue Seattle, Washington 98121 (206) 448-1777 For Defendant Philip Morris, Incorporated: WINSTON & STRAWN BY: ALAN B. HOWARD BY: CHRISTOPHER M. NOLAN Attorneys at Law 200 Park Avenue New York, New York 10166-4193 (212) 294-6869 For Defendant R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company: WOMBLE, CARLYLE, SANDRIDGE & RICE BY: W. A. COPENHAVER Attorney at Law 200 West Second Street Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27101 (336) 721-3633 For Michael J. Marcotullio: FOX, SIEGLER & SPILLANE BY: ADAM SIEGLER Attorney at Law 1880 Century Park East, Suite 1114 Los Angeles, California 90067 (310) 441-5202 41 1 3
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1 r 2 3 4 0 S 6 7 • 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 15 • 16 17 0 18 19 20 41 21 22 23 24 25 0 INDEX WITNESS EXAMINATION RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO BY MR. WITHEY 7, 221 BY MR. COPENHAVER 214 BY MR. HOWARD 215, 229 EXHIBITS PLAINTIFF PAGE 1 Notice of Deposition and Subpoena for Richard J. Marcotullio 2 Document titled ICOSI International Committee on Smoking Issues, April, '79 33 3 Interoffice memo dated 5-10-78, Subject: Immediacy of the "Social Costs" issue from Dennis Durden 53 4 Memo dated 2-10-82, Subject: Social Costs Piece in "Business Week" from Mr. Durden 61 5 Document titled Presentation on Social Costs/Social Values to INFOTAB Board of Directors Meeting, 10-31-83 67 6 Memo dated 1-6-79 from David Narr to Dennis Durden, Subject: Social Cost of Smoking: Literature Review 77 7 Memo dated 1-10-79 from David Narr to Dennis Durden, Subject: Social Costs of Smoking - Strategic Assessment 89 8 Document concerning SAWP countermeasures development subcommittee proposals to ICOSI executive committee 98 4 J
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1 r 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 1.1 1.2 • 4 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 2.7 ~ 1, 8 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't think I ever thought of smoking in those terms. Q Did you understand in that time frame that cigarettes contained nicotine? A I probably did. I really don't recall, you know, really focusing on nicotine as I know what I smoked. My decision was basically based on taste and whether I enjoyed the cigarette or didn't enjoy it. Q Did you understand that the tobacco had nicotine and nicotine was an addictive substance? MR. SIEGLER: I'll object. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A I never thought of it in terms of addiction. Again, I can use my own personal experience. I don't consider myself to be, you know, the paragon of will and all that, but I stopped smoking with no problem whatsoever and, you know, stopped smoking on a number of occasions for a year or two years. It didn't cause me any concern one way or another. Q Was it easy to stop? A Yeah. It was very easy for me. Q Did you have any understanding as to whether the company you worked for added any , 0 1 17
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1 • 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 ` *, 49 about 25 to 30 years. Q When did you start? A I started as a young teenager. Q 14, 15? Something like that? A About 14. Q What is your date of birth? A August 7, '41. Q So that would have been in the mid 50's, something like that? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 ].7 ].8 3.9 20 21 22 23 24 25 A That's correct. Q Now, we've heard the expression in some of these cases that comes from some of the defense witnesses saying everybody knew that smoking caused disease. Do you believe that to be true back in the 'S0s and '60s? MR. HOWARD: Object to the form. MR. SIEGLER: I'll object to the form. MR. WITHEY: Just say objection except Mr. Siegler. If you have any particular objection, then you could go ahead and voice it. Is that agreeable? MR. COPENHAVER: So anyone that expresses an objection, it's for everyone? MR. WITHEY: Yes. Everybody won't have to chime in. 12 0
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1 0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 41 M 21 22 23 24 25 it more in the government relations field? A It was almost exclusively -- well, I should say exclusively in the area of government relations. I haven't practiced law as such other than helping in a few family matters. Q So I take it you left Avon around 1979? A I left in October, '79 I believe it was. Q And what employment did you pursue next? A I then joined R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International. Q Did you work for R.J.R. Reynolds Tobacco International till 1984? A Yes, I did. Q Have you been employed since you left Reynolds? A I have. I'm currently employed by Herbalife International. Q And in what capacity? A I'm senior vice-president of the external affairs. I have responsibility for government relations, public relations, and investor relations. Q Did you ever smoke, sir? A Yes, I did. Q For how long, or do you still smoke? A No, I don't smoke. I smoked probably for i i
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1 i 0 enough to answer. Is that a fair assumption then? A Sure. Q You are represented by Mr. Adam Siegler today; is that correct? A Yeah. 2 3 4 5 6 Q You're not represented by any of the attorneys for any of the defendants in this case -- R.J.R., Philip Morris -- A No. Q Have you had any meetings with any of the attorneys representing the defendants in this case? A None whatsoever. . Q No discussions with them? A No. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 1 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: 7 8 9 10 I1 3.2 13 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 Q I have served on you a subpoena duces 8 9 18 • tecum for this deposition, and it's been marked as Exhibit 1. Do you recall receiving that sometime ago, sir? MR. SIEGLER: Just for the record, you're referring to the subpoena that's attached to the back of the notice which is Exhibit 1. MR. WITHEY: Thank you. . THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 19 24 25 0 1 8
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 6 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 S 0 21 22 23 24 25 0 I heard so much about it that you knew that it was perhaps something which carried some degree of maybe some risk to it. Q Risk of what? A That it might not be good for your health. Q What might happen to.your health? A Well, I don't know. I guess you could develop a sore throat or it could lead to maybe more frequent colds or something. But to me it wasn't a very specific or very defined risk connected with anything specific. Q So I take it then in the late '60s, early '70s you yourself did not draw the conclusion that smoking caused lung cancer; is that correct? A I don't believe I did, no. Q How about that it caused cardiovascular diseases? A No. I think that's being extremely specific, more specific than my mind set was at the time. Q You didn't, then, at that time -- again, this is the late '60s, early '70s time period -- 14 ~ believe that smoking might cause or did cause Cl ry emphysema or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? ~ 16
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0 • • THE WITNESS: Would you mind repeating the question? BY MR. WITHEY: 1 2 3 4 Q We've heard the expression in some of these cases that everybody knew that smoking caused disease, was bad for you, words to that effect. Did you believe that was true at some point in time? A Are you referring to back when I started smoking as a teenager? Q Yeah. A I don't think I was particularly concerned or aware of there being any implications other than, you know, my friends were smoking. It was cool. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q Did there come a time when you believed it was true that everybody knew that smoking was bad for you or caused disease? A Well, I believe there was a -- I'm not sure that -- your statement seemed to imply a conclusion. Q Right. A As far as a belief, I think it was pretty well common knowledge at some point in time, I think going back a considerable period of time, that smoking might not be good for you. 15 16 17 r 18 19 20 *, is 21 22 23 24 25 13 •
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1 2 3 4 8 9 , 10 ' 0 11 16 17 18 3.9 0 24 25 Los Angeles, California, Friday, October 30, 1998 10:03 a.m. - 3:52 p.m. RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. WITHEY: Q Could you state your name and your business address or your residence address for the record please. A My name is Richard J. Marcotullio. I reside at 1213 Via Descanso, D-e-s-c-a-n-s-o, in Palos Verdes Estates, California. Q My name is Mike Withey. I represent the plaintiffs in this case which is the Ohio "Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 versus Philip Morris, et al." in the Northern District of Ohio Federal Court, and I have some questions for you today. If you don't understand my question or you feel it's too vague, do you mind just asking me rephrase the question? cn A Not at all. ~• a ~ Q So if you answer the question, I'll y assume you believe it's intelligent enough and clear :
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 r 10 • 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 r 21 22 23 24 25 lifestyle customs, whether it's smoking or drinking or other things. That, you know, there may be other up sides and down sides connected with it, each person to make up their own mind as to the benefits and whether or not they want to pursue these activities. Q What was it that you understood might be harmful about smoking cigarettes? Again, this is late '60s, early '70s when you came -- MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. Mischaracterizes prior testimony. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A I think it was more of a general rather than a specific awareness, that if you're taking something into your system, particularly if you're breathing something in that -- you know, it's like air pollution -- perhaps maybe it's not the best thing for you. Q You thought smoking cigarettes was like air pollution in terms of health hazards? A I'm just using it as trying to analogize. Now, I'm not sure that I had this specific view at the time. It's -- to me it was something which basically it was not a defined risk, if you will. It was something where you've heard so much where -- you 0 1 15
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0 1 ` 2 3 4 / / 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 r 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX (Continued): EXHIBITS PLAINTIFF PAGE 20 Interoffice memo dated 4-16-81 from R. Marcotullio to T. Finnegan and C. Tucker, Subject: Social Costs/Social Values Project 192 21 Interoffice memo dated 11-9-84 from R. Marcotullio to C. Tucker, Subject: INFOTAB - "Social Costs" Monogram 193 22 Document titled Part III - SAWP Budget Proposals for balance of 1979 plus 1980, Dennis Durden 197 23 Interoffice memo dated 4-6-83 from R. Marcotullio to E. Horrigan, Subject: INFOTAB Board of Directors Meeting - April 12, 1983 - Brussels 199 24 Interoffice memo dated 2-25-82 from R. Marcotullio to F. Colby, Subject: INFOTAB 202 25 Interoffice memo dated 12-26-79 from R. Marcotullio to F. Colby, Subject: Cold Spring Harbor Meeting - October, 1979 213 0 1 61
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5 0 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • w 13 14 15 16 17 • ].8 ].9 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 who worked with you or for you in public affairs at Reynolds International from 1979 till '94, as many people as you can remember? I'm sure as we go through the documents, we'll get into some of the other names. A Let me ask you just a clarification. Do you want me to literally go sort of around the world? Because I had counterparts. Q I meant in Winston-Salem. A That will be easier. I was at a very small department; so there weren't a lot of people. I may not necessarily get the sequence correct. It's been a few years. I had one gentleman by the name of Milton Ashford, who's an attorney, who basically divided some of the responsibilities with me. A gentleman by the name of Donald Albert. They were not there together. They were basically -- I've always basically had one, additional position, and these are people who held those positions from one time or another. A Raymond Donner, D-o-n-n-e-r, Donald Foreman, F-o-r-e-m-a-n, and Brenda Follmer, F-o-l-l-m-e-r, other than secretarial. Q What caused you to move to London in June of ' 87? A Basically the international executive 0 1 23
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1 6 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 17 ~ 18 19 20 22 • Q Both. A My immediate supervisor was a gentleman by the name of Edward Horrigan, and he was certainly CEO of Reynolds Tobacco International. I'm not sure 2 3 4 if he carried the title president, but he was the CEO. 5 Q So you reported directly to Horrigan? A I did. Q And how many people worked in the public affairs department of Reynolds International at the time you started there? A I was actually the first one. That's the reason why I was hired, was to start that department. Q And then as time went on, did you hire or did the company hire other people? A Yeah. I think I hired basically in Winston-Salem, one more person to work with me, and 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 21 23 24 25 each of us would have had a secretary or assistant. Q Where is the headquarter or was the headquarter of R.J. International? A It was in Winston-Salem. Q What countries, if any, did it have affiliates, subsidiaries, offices at? A There were literally dozens around the world. Probably more than 40 or 50 countries. Q Who worked -- if you can name the people, 0 1 22 1
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1 i 10 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 24 25 BY MR. WITHEY: Q And did you read that, sir? A I did. Q Did you make any search of your files to determine whether any of the documents requested in that subpoena were within your custody and control? A All the reference documents in here are not in my possession. None of them are. When I left the employment of Reynolds, I took absolutely no documents with me other than personal things. I do have a small office at home. I went through it a couple days ago just to make sure that my recollection was correct, and I have absolutely nothing that pertains to any of this. Q Okay. Great. Do you have any questions about the procedures today? A No, I don't. I'm here to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Q True. Why don't we start out with a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up? A I grew up in the suburb of New York City in Westchester County. Q Where did you go to school, high school and college? 0 1 9
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1 6 9 ~ 10 11 1.2 • 0 1.7 ~ 1, 8 1, 9 20 • M identify, as we identify individuals that worked for one of the Reynolds subsidiaries, which one they worked for if you know. A Sure. 2 3 4 5 Q We'll try to make that clear, with counsel's objection, so we know who's working for who. A That's fine. MR. WITHEY: I think the record's clear that when I'm talking about the company he worked for, he's only worked for Reynolds International. He's described the relationship. Q So if I use "Reynolds," it's just a way of saying the company you worked for. But I'll try to use "Reynolds International" in light of the objection. If I'm not accurate, you can correct me if you want. Okay? A Sure. Q Now, did your job, other than your going to London, which is a different location, but did your job change at any time between 1979 and 1994? A No. It was very much the same, just 6 7 8 1.3 1.4 2.5 1.6 21 different location. Q At any rate, when you went to work at Winston-Salem, who was your immediate supervisor? A By name or by title? 22 23 24 25 0 1 21
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0 1 ~ 2 3 4 0 5 6 0 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 is 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 44 21 22 A 23 24 25 INDEX (Continued): EXHIBITS PLAINTIFF PAGE 9 Inter-Company memo dated 10-31-79 to C. Tucker from R. Marcotullio, Subject: ICOSI - International Symposium on Public Smoking 106 10 Inter-Company memo dated 6-6-80 from R. Marcotullio, Subject: ICOSI - Board of Governors Meeting, 5-29-80 118 11 Inter-Company memo dated 12-17-79 from R. Marcotullio, Subject: ICOSI 123 12 Document titled Social Costs/Social Values Progress Report, March 17, 1980 138 13 Document titled SAWP Meeting, Washington, D.C., March 31 to April 1, 1980 153 14 Document titled INFOTAB Social Values/Social Costs Project, 6-8-81 156 15 Document titled Project Progress Report dated 5-13-83 161 16 Interoffice memo dated 11-13-84 from D. Durden to R. Marcotullio, Subject: Comment on Your INFOTAB "Social Costs" Monogram 166 17 Memo dated 4-10-84 from R. Marcotullio to H. Osmon and C. Tucker, Subject: INFOTAB, Courtesy Campaign 171 18 Interoffice memo dated 9-11-81 from R. Marcotullio and C. Tucker to E. Horrigan, Subject: INFOTAB - 9-13-91 meeting with Mary Covington 176 cn r 19 Document titled Major Decisions/Points of Discussion, INFOTAB Board of Di.rectors pi Meeting, October 5-6, 1981 186 ° 0 0 1 5
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1 • A Well, I was aware of the fact it was going through the reorganization because my function was realigned from reporting to the CEO to then reporting to the senior vice-president and general counsel of Tobacco International. Q And who was that person? A A gentleman by the name of Peter Van 2 3 4 5 6 7 Evry. 8 Q Okay. So describe the reorganization 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 ]. 9 20 • i 21 22 23 24 that took place then in 1994 as best you can recall. A It was essentially several of the people with whom I had worked for a couple of years basically retiring or leaving the company, a new COE coming in, and some of the other senior management positions being realigned with different functions being combined basically to streamline the number of people reporting to the new CEO. Q was this a decision reached by Reynolds International or by the parent corporation? A I'm not sure which one initiated it or which one ultimately was responsible for it. Obviously it would have been a mutual decision. I don't know whether or not it originated with Reynolds International or with the parent company, but obviously it was with the approval of the parent 25 26
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 • 13 14 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 BY MR. WITHEY: Q So the entire time you worked there for Reynolds International? A Yeah. Always Reynolds International. My responsibilities were basically outside of the United States. Q And did you have any -- what was ~he relationship between Reynolds International and Reynolds, U.S.A.? A They were called sister companies, both subsidiaries of R.J. Reynolds Nabisco or R.J. Reynolds at the time. Q When did R.J.R. International change to R.J.R. Nabisco? A I believe that was probably sometime in the mid '80s, early '80s I believe. Q Was there occasions in your work -- and I'm going to ask you some questions about a number of organizations that we've received some documents -- that you worked side by side or with people that were employed by your sister subsidiary, as you refer to it? You have to answer audibly. cn .M ~ ~ fti A I'm sorry. Yes. ~ ~ Q When we go through this, we might want to ~. 20
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1 2 3 4 5 6 • 7 8 9 r 10 11 12 9 13 ].4 • 3.5 3.6 1.7 M 18 2.9 20 1 21 22 23 24 25 0 Q And when was it that you drew that conclusion? A I think it would probably be sometime in the mid to late '60s. Q What was it that brought that to your attention? A I think primarily just, you know, government pronouncements and, you know, public service announcements. Word of mouth. Q So in the late '60s, early '70s time frame, then, did you believe then that smoking could cause some diseases? A I don't know if I would have thought about it that specifically. I certainly wasn't -- in my own case, speaking for myself, I wasn't particularly troubled or concerned about my smoking. I enjoyed smoking and really didn't, you know, go through any great mental anguish about should I or shouldn't I. Q Well, I'm actually asking what understanding you had about the health effects, if any, of smoking. You said in the late '60s, maybe early '70s you came to think that it might not be good for you; right? A I think I view that along with other 14
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1 0 • 0 0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 17 ].8 ].9 20 21 22 23 24 25 group was transferred over to London, and I was offered the opportunity to go or not go. Q You took it. A Sure. Q Why not? Why did you come back in November, 189? A The exact reverse happened. R.J. Reynolds was a subject of the leverage buyout by Kobert, Kravis & Roberts. And shortly thereafter the new chairman of R.J. Reynolds, R.J.R. Nabisco decided it was more appropriate for the International Tobacco Company to be back in Winston-Salem. So we all moved back. Or little short of three years. Q That was a decision the parent company reached? A Yes. Q Could you describe the circumstances how you came to work for R.J.R. International? A Yes. It was very simple. I was very happy at Avon Products, where I was working for almost ten years. And I got a call from a headhunter saying essentially "would you be interested in this ,.: oppor uni y .4 fil And it was an opportunity that was « ry attractive because it was a larger company, 0 1 24
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• A I went to high school at the public high 0 0 0 r 6 5 6 7 8 9 1.2 1.3 1.4 15 16 17 1.9 20 21 22 23 24 25 school in Pelham Manor, New York, went to Georgetown University for my undergraduate studies and St. John's University Law School for legal studies. Q Are you licensed to practice law anywhere? A In the state of New York. Q What year did you graduate from Georgetown? A 1963. Q What field of study did you pursue? A History and philosophy. Q When did you get your J.D.? A 1966. Q Could you tell me what your employment was after law school? A Immediately after law school I went into the U.S. Army for approximately three years, came out as a first lieutenant in the artillery branch; and then shortly thereafter I joined Avon Products as a government relations manager in the state and local government department for Avon. Q How long were you working for Avon? A Just short of ten years. 0 Ca Q And did you do legal work for Avon or was ~~ 0 I 10 ~
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• 1 • 2 3 4 ~ 5 6 7 0 8 9 0 10 11 12 r 13 14 15 ~ 16 17 18 1 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 ~ substances or additives to the product that would heighten the effect of nicotine? MR. COPENHAVER: Now, you were back in the late '60s, early '70s. You're moving on now to the late '70s earl '80s? , y THE WITNESS: I joined the company in '79. So I had no industry experience prior to that time. BY MR WITHEY . : Q Okay. Let's take it after you joined Reynolds. Did you have any greater understanding after joining Reynolds as to whether the product that your company sold contained an addictive substance nicotine? A Well, I know there was a continuing escalating debate as to whether or not nicotine was addictive or not. I think your earlier question related to whether or not anything was added or nicotine was added. I was never aware of any situation where I heard anybody suggest that. Q Okay. Have you had any family member that's been diagnosed with any diseases or illnesses that their doctors concluded it was caused by smoking? A Immediate family? t.q ~ Q Well, immediate or cousins or relatives. J ~ A No, not that I'm aware of. 18 J ro
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• i 5 6 7 8 9 # 10 11 12 ! 0 • 0 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 internationally. At the time it was reporting directly to the CEO rather than several levels in between, and had the offer of being able to give me more job experience. So I consulted with my wife, and we decided it was a good career move. Q Okay. i take it then that in '94 you were back at Winston-Salem; correct? A Yes, I was. Q And you resigned. A I took early retirement. Q You were an officer of that corporation at the time; is that correct? A I'm not sure what the legal structure was. I believe I was considered to be an officer of Reynolds Tobacco International. Q And you resigned as an officer and employee essentially of Reynolds International. A I was basically told that I should take early retirement. There was a reorganization of the company and the structure, and my position was no longer considered to be essential. So I was offered Lq ,.. the opportunity to take early retirement and took it. 4 I'u Q And who told you that the company was FJ going through this reorganization? 0 1 25
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• • • • ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 company. Q When in this time frame then did you stop smoking, sir? A I stopped smoking probably in '84, '85. Q And at the time what brand were you smoking? A I'm hesitating only because you just -- I don't really recall which brand I was smoking. You could be sure it was a Reynolds brand. Q Was it Reynolds International or Reynolds, U.S.A.? A Probably would have been a Reynolds, U.S.A. Many of the trademarks are shared, but I would have purchased my cigarettes from the States. Yeah, I frankly don't recall what brand I was smoking. I probably smoked different brands from time to time. Q How much did you smoke over the years? How many packs? A I smoked approximately a little less than a pack a day. Q Did you smoke filters? A Yes. Q Why? A Found them smoother tasting. 0 1 27
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people to assume that if you partake of the custom that you're going to wind up with the result that's indicated on the warning. Q • • • A 17 • 18 19 20 • • Have you ever read any of the surgeon general's reports? A I've read bits and pieces of them, not in entirety. Q Did you read any part of the 1964 surgeon general's report? A I may have at one time, but I certainly didn't study it or -- I recall it was a rather lengthy document. I know I didn't read the darn thing from the beginning to end. Q You understood that, at least generally, that the surgeon general had surveyed the scientific and medical literature and concluded that smoking can cause lung cancer and other diseases; correct? A I was aware that that was his conclusion, 1.1 2.2 1.3 1.4 1, 5 6 16 21 22 23 24 25 sure. Q But you didn't believe that, did you? A Well, I'm not sure that I necessarily believed it or disbelieved. I think -- again, I think that it's very difficult to -- I believe it's difficult to draw a black and white conclusion. Not everything is black and not everything is white. 0 1 30
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• 0 • • ~ 10 11 12 • i 13 14 15 16 ].7 ~ ].8 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q Did you ever smoke low-tar, low-nicotine cigarettes? A I have, yes. Q Why did you smoke low-tar, low-nicotine cigarettes? A Again, it was a taste and a preference. I found them just a lighter taste for me. Q Why did you stop smoking? A It was very simple. I had a cold. I don't know if it was the flu, but I had a cold that lingered on for a week or two. I just never smoked when I had a cold. So I simply just never started again. Q Or did you stop smoking in any way because of any concerns you had about the possible effect of your history of smoking on your health? A No, I didn't. Q So you didn't believe that your smoking was hazardous to you then? A Well, I didn't go through that type of a thought process. I mean, to me it was really nothing more complicated than I found it easy not to resume smoking again. Q Did you read any of the warning -- the surgeon general's warnings on the packages of 0 1 28
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• • 0 0 ~ 10 11 12 • i 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • r 21 22 23 24 25 cigarettes? A Sure I did. Q Did you believe them? A I think I always considered them to be a bit simplistic from the standpoint that they're obviously very general statements. But I think when you're talking about, you know, health issues, it's really far more complex. But you really have to think about individuals. it's really a question of, you know, whether a lifestyle is good or bad for a particular individual rather than everyone at large. Q So I take it -- don't let me mischaracterize. I take it then you read the surgeon general's warnings, but you didn't necessarily believe what they said. Is that a fair statement? A Well, I don't think I necessarily believed that it was so simple as to say if you smoke, you're going to develop one of these ailments that were mentioned in the warnings themselves. Q Well, but the warnings don't tell you that you're necessarily going to get the diseases listed, does it? Is that what you recall from the warnings? A Well, I think if you get into a smoking causes, I think it's not unreasonable for a lot of 0 1 29
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• • • • 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 17 ~ 18 19 20 w 0 I believe there are -- when you're 1 looking at surveys and statistical studies, it depends 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 on how long, how all-inclusive they are, and whether or not they necessarily contain studies which might reach an opposite point of view. But that's really not my area of expertise and specialty. The statistical analyses all those type of things are not my forte. Q well, have you ever seen a study that and draws the conclusion that smoking does not cause lung cancer? A I believe I'm aware of studies or have been aware of studies where -- I don't know. I don't ` know if I've not ever seen a study or reference that said it did not. I guess it's very difficult to prove 13 14 15 a negative. 0 Did you ever see any internal, either R.J.R. or R.J.R. International, documents that summarized the medical or scientific literature as.it relates to smoking and human health? A I've seen statements which summarize the company's and the industry's position, the smoking and health controversy. Q That wasn't quite what I asked. That's fine. I don't think you're trying to not answer the 16 21 22 23 24 25 31
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• • i • ~ 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 from time to time? A Yes, I was. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 2 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q And handing you what's been marked as Exhibit 2 to this deposition. This was a document provided to us in discovery. It bears a number of Bates numbers. MR. HOWARD: At this time, Counsel, as we're getting into substantive documents, can I get a representation concerning you're not intending to use any documents that you understand companies to be maintaining a privilege about with respect to? MR. WITHEY: Counsel had asked me prior to the deposition about this, and the documents that we have for this witness are documents obtained in discovery through the Minnesota repository, through the Texas disclosure, or off the Internet. And a number of documents that I'm going ; to use were submitted in a declaration submitted in this litigation in Ohio, as a result of which, to my knowledge, there is no document that I'm going to be . using today to which any party has asserted an attorney-client privilege or other privilege that I'm aware of. 0 1 33
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A I never did. Q You never gave legal advice to the company you were working for? A No. • ~ 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 Q And just in case that person's name is in these documents, can you just named the lawyer for the ! N ~ w : e :. company you worked for that you had a discussion or y discussions with? A Sure. That's fine. Q Who is that? A I'm sorry. Q Yes. Just so I'11 know in light of Mr. Siegler's objection. A Whatever discussions I might have had would have been really just as a matter of interest as an employee knowing that there was litigation from time to time. I guess the attorney's names would be Dan Donohue and probably Wayne Juchatz, which is J-u-c-h-a-t-z I believe. Q And these were attorneys for which company? A They were both attorneys for R.J. Reynolds Tobacco, U.S.A., the domestic tobacco company, not the company that I worked for, but the sister company. And they would have been just general 0 1 36
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• 0 • ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 • 15 16 17 ~ ].8 19 20 • 21 22 23 r 24 25 question. The question was whether you'd seen any internal documents that summarized the epidemiological, scientific, or medical literature, not necessarily the company's position toward what the literature -- or issue, but whether there was or a document that said the surgeon general's says this, the British physician's study said a study ~ «~ f report ~ that, m I this epidemiological was conducted, that kind of thing. A I recall seeing some documents that referred to various studies. I don't know if it's exactly as comprehensive as your describing it. Q Do you know who Claude Teague is? A I'm sorry? Q Claude Teague. A How did you spell the last name? Q T-e-a-g-u-e. A It sounds very vaguely familiar, but I couldn't tell you who it is. Q Were you familiar at the time you worked for Reynolds International with an organization called International Committee On Smoking Issues, or ICOSI? A Yes. Q And were you one of the people for - Reynolds International that attended meetings of ICOSI 0 1 32
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• • 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 academic discussions. Q Okay. Let's go on to Exhibit 2. This is a document -- MR. COPENHAVER: Do you have additional copies? MR. WITHEY: I made one for you guys. I have one for the witness, one for you, and I have one that I marked, and then I have one for my files. If you need to look over shoulders, whatever, we can help out. Q This is a document that may have preceded the time in which you started, if I got the month right in '79. When was it in '79? A It does because I started working for Reynolds International in November of '79 -- October, '79. Q But at any rate, you might be familiar - on the last page of this exhibit, page 13 -- MR. HOWARD: I tell you, our copy here is not double-sided. I noticed your original is. And this has skipped other Bates number. THE WITNESS: I only have page 12 on mine. I think you mentioned page 13. MR. WITHEY: Can you make three copies of this?, Take a break. (Discussion off the record.) 0 1 37
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that's presented to the witness, so that that issue • 0 10 • • • • 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 can be, you know, raised, if necessary, by counsel for the company. MR. WITHEY: All right. You can do that, or , they can do that. They'll be provided with documents. I have no problem with that. MR. SIEGLER: Thank you. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, let me ask you this: Have you ever been deposed before? A No, I have not. No. Q Have you ever had any discussions at any .' time with any attorney for the company that you worked for regarding litigation matters? I don't want to' know the subject matter, but I just svant to know whether you've had such discussions. MR. SIEGLER: That's a yes or no question. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Okay. And could you state the time frame when those discussions may have taken place. A They would have been generally probably in the area of late '80s, early 1906. Q Did you ever act in a legal capacity on behalf of the company you worked for? 0 1 35
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• • • • • 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 • 7.8 ].9 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WITHEY: Back on the record. Q Mr. Marcotullio, what was the ICOSI? Did you use that acronym? A Yes. Q What was it? A It was basically an organization where Ln _1J rn t.i fij several tobacco companies met from time to time to share information, exchange points of views, and discuss things that were relevant to the industry. LO ro Q What U,.S.-based tobacco companies were members of or participated within ICOSI? A In addition to Reynolds, Philip Morris -- I'm trying to think now whether -- I don't think Brown & Williamson -- I think it was just probably Reynolds and Philip Morris if I remember correctly. Q And was British-American Tobacco also involved? A Yes. Q And how about Brown & Williamson? A Brown & Williamson may have had people participating in meetings from time to time. I don't recall that Brown & Williamson was an official member as such because that would have been B.A.T. parent company at the time. Q And do you know of a Mr. R. M. Corner? 38
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• 9 0 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 • 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 So there was one document that I submitted with the declaration that Philip Morris -- no, excuse me, R.J.R. had objected to, and that was a Jones Day document. But as to the other documents, no such objection was raised, at least for those 4 Eli documents there was not any privilege that's ever been ~ asserted. I have no intention in this deposition with this witness to use an documents which I b li v y e e e to be privileged. I don't think any of these are.' I think all of them are in the Minnesota repository. MR. HOWARD: That's fair enough. I accept your representation. Just for the record, you know, it's certainly not our intent to waive any privilege if something slips by from the Internet or some s ort; that we continue to assert our privilege. MR. SIEGLER: I'd like to make -- well MR. COPENHAVER: Same applies for Reyno lds as . MR. SIEGLER: I just wanted to make one brief observation. Obviously Mr. Marcotullio is not a party, and I've not been involved in any of these proceedings. I do believe that we have an obligation to at least bring to the attention of counsel for the company, if we see an attorney's name in a document 0 1 34
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• • • 10 1.1 12 • 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes, I do. Q Was he involved on behalf of Philip Morris and ICOSI? A Yes, he was. Q Do you know a Mr. P. M. Schuler, S-c-h-u-1 -- A Peter Schuler, yes. Q How do you spell his name? Do you recall? A S-c-h-u-l-e-r. Q And who did he work for? A He was an attorney with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International in Geneva. Q Did you know a Mr. G. C. Hargrove? A Yes, I did. Q And he worked for British-American Tobacco? A Yes. Q And he was involved with ICOSI; is that correct? A That's correct. Q And do you recall whether Lorlard (phonetic) participated in ICOSI at the time? A I don't believe they ever did. Q Now, do you know based -- and how many 39
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HOWARD: You gave us the old Plaintiff's Exhibit 2. MR. WITHEY: Yeah, rip those up. Thank you. Q If you could look at the last page of Exhibit 2. A Is that page 13? Q Yes. A Uh-huh. Q Now, that's titled "Philip Morris Representation Within ICOSI." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q And do you recognize the names of most of these individuals? A Most of them, yes. Q Did you yourself have any specific responsibilities with ICOSI working with any of its committees or working parties? By you, I mean you individually, and then I'll ask you also about your company. A Sure, yes. I participated in ICOSI and would have from time to time been part of committees or subcommittees or, you know, people who contributed to the work effort of the ICOSI, yes. Q Does that include the Social Acceptability Working Party or SAWP? 41
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5 0 0 6 7 8 12 13 14 15 16 17 41 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 years were you involved with ICOSI? A Well, ICOSI went through some various changes of name. So I don't know whether you're referring to just the specific ICOSI or sort of the predecessor organizations but -- Q Let's start with ICOSI. Then it went to INFOTAB; is that correct? A That is correct. Q With ICOSI were you involved in meetings from various -- from time to time ever since when you started? A From the time that I started through the time when it then became INFOTAB, yes, I was. Q We're going to -- A Do you want this one back? Q We're going to have this marked as Exhibit 2, with everybody's approval. Mr. Marcotullio, try it again. This is an April, 1979 document related to ICOSI which bears the Bates No. 1003717317, at least the front page of that is. I just wanted -- I know you weren't with ICOSI at this time, but there may be some information there that you are familiar with. First of all, did you understand that the -- 0 1 40
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• • • 4D ` 10 11 12 r 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 company, or R.J.R. Tobacco, U.S.A. Could you identify who some of those people were that you recall working with ICOSI or SAWP, or later with INFOTAB? A From the sister company Reynolds Tobacco, primarily it would have been Mr. Charles Tucker. Q C. A. Tucker? A Yes. And from the International side, Mr. Schuler, who you mentioned previously, Peter Schuler, and Mr. Dembach also was a lawyer with R.J. Reynolds Tobacco. D-e-m-b-a-c-h. Q Did you know a Mr. Dennis Durden? A I believe you already asked me that. Yes, I did. He was the one I -- Q Oh, is that -- A Yeah. Q I was thinking there were two different names. There's not a Durden and Dardon? They're both Durden? A I believe they're Durden, yes. Q Okay. So you've described him then. you a Mr. J. R. Peterson? A That does not ring a bell. Q How about Ron Sustana, S-u-s-t-a-n-a? A Ron Sustana, yes. Q What was his role or title? fP W r 0 1 47
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1 1 ~ 2 3 4 r 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 r ft 13 1.4 15 16 1.7 r 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 . sometime? A I believe it was around '82, '83, '84, in that eriod p . Q Now, let me just talk a little bit about -- ask you some questions a little bit about the concept of social costs. One of the basic goals of ICOSI, in your work within ICOSI, was to oppose efforts to impose the social -- what were called the, quote, unquote, "social costs" of smoking on to the tobacco industry and smokers. MR. HOWARD: Object to form. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. THE WITNESS: If I may state, what I understood the role for the social costs activity was , it really was to try to add to the debate on social costs. Social costs were, in my mind, and continue to be, sort of a ver y complex, difficult area to get into. And I think t he intention at the time was to, as I said, to broaden the debate and to add to that debate by illuminating various elements that would fit into the discussion on social cost. As I recall, there was basicall y an tn .a ua allegation that smoking posed a social cost. And I ~ n7 W ~ 6+ think the view that we had at the time, that again, [.J that's a rather black on white simplistic view, that 49 I
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5 0 W 0) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 A 21 22 23 24 25 social costs in society, did you have an understanding of what they were including within the phrase "social costs"? MR. HOWARD: Before you answer -- Could you read back the question? I missed one of the words. (Record read.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'm basically asking what you understood those that were making the claim that smoking had social costs were including within that concept. A As I mentioned, one of the elements certainly was that smokers were absent from work more; that they took more time off than other employees; that they were less productive in general than other employees. That was primarily the area that I recall looking at. Q Do you recall that the question was raised about the medical costs of treating smokers as being also part of the social costs concept? A That may have been a part of it. I know it is difficult, with the passage of time, to think of whether or not -- that's something which I know people talk about now, but back then I don't recall getting very heavily involved, if you will, at all on the 51 I
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• 1 AL 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 9 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 d 21 22 23 24 25 0 A I believe he took -- he had been primarily the public relations vice-president for the parent company, and at one point I think he assumed the public affairs responsibilities from Mr. Durden. Q Do you know of a gentleman named Mr. Narr, N-a-r-r? A Yes. I believe -- I think it is Dave Narr. Q Yes. A I knew him, did very, very little work, if any, with him. I just knew he was, I think, in the public affairs department of Reynolds Tobacco. Q Not International? A No. Q Now, as I understand it then, ICOSI went through some sort of transformation and became INFOTAB; is that correct? A Yes. Q What did INFOTAB refer to? A It referred more to, as the acronym sort of implied, really more of an information resource rather than a more active organization that puts together action plans or that type of thing. Q And that change came around sometime in the early '80s, as I read the document somewhere, '83 48
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1 0 0 a • 0 • 0 battle against this sort of organized world-wide A Yes, I do. rO Q was that one of the reasons why ICOSI was ~ attack." Do you see that? Cn u 3 2 4 brought together, to bring a number of companies from different countries together? A Yeah. I think it's very similar to what other industries do when they have common interests and want -- feel they have a legitimate right to protect their interests. Q Then it goes on to say that, the last sentence, "The whole industry, companies and Trade Associations alike must unite with common targets and common approaches." Was that your understanding of what ICOSI was doing? A I'm not sure I would have necessarily chosen those words, but basically again, it's a situation where the tobacco industry had a number of critics. I think that if the industry did not stand up for itself, then those critics would probably have 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 a negative impact on the companies as a part industry. 22 of that And therefore, coming together and trying to identify, you know, what was most threatening to the viability of the industry and what could the 23 24 25 0 1 44
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5 w simply said it's got to be smoking, when, in fact, it may be -- something we're smoking may only be a marker for an individual lifestyle. There could be many other reasons why a person who also is a smoker was counted as contributing to a social cost but really had nothing to do with smoking. Absenteeism is a perfect example. I remember that I was intrigued by the idea that, you know, an argument could be made that smokers are absent from work more often than nonsmokers. But you really have to look at the individual and why were they absent. You know, if it was a single mother with a child that she had to pick up at day care who also happened to be a smoker, in my mind that really created a question as, you know, was it the smoking that caused her to be absent or was it the fact that she had to run out and pick up Mary Sue from the day 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 42 6 13 14 15 16 17 r 18 19 20 21 22 23 care center. That really was sort of the area that recall being involved in. Q Were you done? A Yes. Q To your understanding, what does the I 24 concept of social costs include? In other words, the people, adherents that were saying that smoking had 25 50
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• • r 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 0 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 acceptability issues were defined as passive smoking, smoking courtesy, and social costs? A Generally I would agree with that, yes. Q Now -- A If I may -- I'm sorry. If I may just clarify. Passive smoking more from the perspective of restrictions on where people could smoke, certainly much less any possible health aspect of the passive smoking. Health issues per se were really not a major, if any, significant part of the mandate of this group as I recall it. The smoking controversy itself, you know -- Q Right. But you understood that one of the reasons being offered for restricting smoking in public places was the concern for passive smoking and the health effects? A Yes. Q We're going to talk a little bit more about social costs in a second, but that was one of the issues that fell under the Social Acceptability Working Party; correct? A That's correct. Q Now, I take it then that as time went by, a number of people from Reynolds you worked with in connection with either the parent company, your 7 0 1 46
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• A Yes, it does. • • • ~ 10 11 12 13 0 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 .Q You were a member -- I think at some point in time you may have chaired that working party; is that correct? A I'm not sure. I certainly was a member of that. I'm not sure if I ever chaired that as opposed to taking on assignments to work various projects. Q What do you understand to be the reasons that ICOSI was brought into being? A I think generally, as I indicated, you know, it started, from the best of my knowledge and certainly when I was there, as providing a forum where companies could get together and talk about noncommercial issues, exchange information on things that were relevant to the industry. It's no surprise that the tobacco industry had a number of critics, and I think the companies that were represented there felt that it was in their best interest to try to respond to many of the criticisms or to develop a sense of views on the criticisms. Q And, at least according to this document -- and I don't know if you know this, but on page 2, under "Short History To Date," it states that 0 1 42
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medical side of it. 0 0 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 Q It's referred to in the documents, and I'll go ahead and show you those in a second, but certainly -- well, did you have an understanding that at least there were those that were claiming that smoking caused certain people to incur greater medical costs because of the diseases? A Well, I have to put it really in the term of -- again, of absenteeism, that smokers were away from work more than nonsmokers, I think with the implication that maybe they were less healthy, had more sick days than nonsmokers. Q Did you also understand in the context that smokers -- that the claim was made at least that smokers got diseases related to smoking -- lung cancer, emphysema, heart disease, went in and had to be treated for those diseases -- and that was also part of the concept of social costs? A Generally, yes. Yeah, generally. Q Was it your understanding, again as you worked, when you worked for this company, that the question of who should pay for those medical costs, whether it ought to be the Medicare or the health care payors versus the tobacco industry, was one of the issues, as you put it, that was under debate at the 0 1 52 1
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b costs" issue, quote, unquote. And this bears the Bates No. 50213 6070. In this document, Mr. Marcotullio, let me just hopefully correctly characterize it. It attaches a "Wall Street Journal" article. Mr. Durden is sending this article to a number of people that are listed, related to the social costs issues. And I wanted to read one question, I mean one statement of this, and see if you recall this topic ever being discussed. MR. SIEGLER: Could I just interpose a concern. I believe that Mr. Witt was general counsel of the company at the time. Now, I don't know what position the company has with regard to memoranda that were sent to the general counsel, but I do want to raise that in case the company has -- i h THE WITNESS: Mr. Crohn was also a lawyer w t - - MR. SIEGLER: I want to make it clear for the record I do not represent the company. I just feel that we're obligated to bring this matter to the attention, and if the company has a position on it, Ui 4+ ~ then the company will assert it. N CJ MR. WITHEY: Actually I'm sure R.J.R. can ~ tn represent their interests and they would know who 54 f 5 6 7 8 9 i 10 11 12 • 13 14 1.5 4) 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 1P 21 22 23 0 24 25 0
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1 • 2 3 4 v 5 6 ~ 7 8 9 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 ~ 16 17 • 18 19 20 0 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 0 time? MR. HOWARD: Object to the form. THE WITNESS: I believe that was one of the issues that were in the mix of the debate on social costs versus social benefits, yes. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You understand that one of the things that ICOSI and SAWP and others had some programs around was opposed to any efforts to impose excise tax on cigarettes; correct? A Well, I don't think ICOSI itself -- ICOSI never was, you know, an active external lobbying group, so to speak. it basically was a group that again would allow people to discuss and debate how one would deal with issues like the one you just raised, opposing excise taxes on tobacco product s. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 3 marked .) WITHEY BY MR . : Q Let me hand you Exhibit 3, a document again dated prior to when you came there, but I just want to know if you're generally aware of this debate, if you will -- May 10th, 1978. It's a document on cn . N U3 R.J.R. Interoffice memorandum'from Dennis Durden to a ~ nr number of people we've mentioned, Mr. Tucker and Ga ~ others. Subject is the immediacy of the "social 1 53
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• • 2 industry do about it was basically why they came together. Yeah. Q And on page 3 under the "Working U r / 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 •• 0 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~. -Ij r(I 9 Programs" -- do you see that? -- identifying of the LD Social Acceptability Working Party -- A Uh-huh. Q -- and chairman Mr. D. Durden, D-u-r-d-e-n, with Reynolds? A Yes. Q Do you know Mr. Durden? A Yes, I knew him. Q What position did he have at Reynolds in this time frame? A I believe he was vice-president of public affairs for the parent company. I think at the time it was R.J. Reynolds Industries. Q Did you work with Mr. Durden still on ICOSI or SAWP issues? A Sporadically, not extensively. Q On page 7 of this document, Exhibit 2, it further defines some aspects of the Social Acceptability Working Party. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Would you agree that in your time in working with ICOSI or SAWP, that the levels of social 0 1 45
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0 1 • 2 3 4 5 6 • 7 8 9 i 10 1.1 1.2 0 6 13 14 1.5 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 first time I've seen it spelled out so clearly, and it could be a harbinger of things to come." And when you turn to the article, in the last column on the right side, there's a°High Priority from G.M." Do you see it? A Yes. Q It states, "A recent survey by the President's Council or Wage and Price Stability described 126 medical-cost-control programs organized by employers or unions, half of them set up since 1973. The unions have at least a double stake: When the companies' medical costs rise, the unions have less money for wage increases; also, union members' monthly contributions for medical coverage may rise right along with the companies' premiums." Do you see that there? A Yes, I do. Q The reason I'm asking you this question is whether you ever had any understanding at all at the time you were working for Reynolds International that there were health care payors in the health care market that were paying for health care costs, including employer, employee plans. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. THE WITNESS: I'm not sure I really understand 0 1 56
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5 0 f 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 r 18 19 20 • « 21 22 23 24 25 their lawyers are. MR. COPENHAVER: I appreciate the concern because they're going to be -- MR. WITHEY: You feel he's another lawyer for R.J.R. here -- MR. COPENHAVER: We don't know exactly what you're going to use. I think there are going to be memos that you're using, Counsel, informative copies, that go to the world, including lawyers. But I would appreciate it if Mr. Marcotullio, if he gets into that and starts thinking that something represents communications with him to counsel seeking advice, that he may be the first to be able to flag some of those. So I appreciate the sensitivities. BY MR. WITHEY: 0 I take it that it's fair enough to say that everybody on this "to" list is not a lawyer representing R.J.R. Reynolds. A Not everyone is a lawyer. Some are, yes. Q Let me just direct your attention to the paragraph starting, "Besides the reference to Mobil's program." Mr. Durden said, "I also was particularly interested in the reference to the 'double stake' that unions have in reducing health costs. This is the W v 0 1 55 1
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1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 ].5 16 3.7 • ].8 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 "ICOSI has been developed and has taken shape since June of 1977.° Was that generally your understanding LA ii, that it had been operating for a couple years before I u w you joined it or became part of it? ~ ~ A I knew that there were -- that it had been in the formative stage for a couple of years. I don't know how active it really was. A lot of these organizations take time to just work out the organizational and administrative aspects. Q Let me ask you if you understood -- on page 1, I'm going to ask you if you understood some of the reasons and objectives of ICOSI are accurately stated here. You could see where the number one statement is that "The problems and attacks proposing restrictions of smoking and normal commercial activities like advertising and publicity have become highly international." Do you see that? A Yes. Q And "Examples in one country are used to attack the industry in another." Did you agree that that was true? A Yes. Generally I would agree with that. Q It goes on to say, "No one industry in one country nor any one company can wage and win the 43
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, / 41 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 12 13 1,4 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 6 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WITHEY: No. Mr. Durden's document. I correct the question. MR. SIEGLER: The article was written by someone else. MR. WITHEY: You don't need to comment on it, Counsel. You don't need to advise the witness about who's written what. I appreciate your calling it to my attention if I made a mistake. Q Mr. Durden's document, do you see that where I referred to the double stake? A Yes, I do. Q Do you understand what he's referring to there? A Generally, yes. Yeah, generally. But it's -- Q It does refer to the article. That's why I read the "Wall Street Journal" article. That's why I read it to you. A I think that I determined if it weren't in the context of this discussion, I don't think I would have understood it as clearly perhaps. Q But at least it was -- you understood, Lfl lt7 and there was some general understanding within the ~ w people that you worked with, that there was health ~; care payors that were paying for the medical costs, 0 1 58 1
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1 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 6 1.7 ~ 1.8 19 20 0 4 MR. WITHEY: You don't have to -- wait a minute. There's a rule in effect in the Northern District of Ohio. I'm not addressing this to you. THE WITNESS: Sure. MR. WITHEY: You're doing fine. The rule is if you have an objection, it's unclear, it's vague, whatever, form of the question, you can insert that. Speaking objections are not allowed. MR. COPENHAVER: No. When you ask him about a '78 document when he wasn't there -- MR. WITHEY: Then what you said is objection, vague. Otherwise you don't give him coaching hints. You don't tell him how to answer the question. You don't bring to him the attention -- are you objecting vague as to time? MR. COPENHAVER: I'm objecting vague as to time because you didn't lay the predicate as to what -- I mean, clearly he wasn't there at the time. MR. WITHEY: Counsel, wait a minute. I've 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 informed you of the rule. if you continue to speaking objections, I'm going to assume that the rule and are violating the rule. MR. COPENHAVER: That's quite proper. give you know 60 0
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 M 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 • 16 17 • 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 Q Was that a concern then at the time that business people may be taken in by the antismoking allegations and may be seeking to impose on the industry and their customers the growing tax bills for those costs? A I'm not sure I would have couched it in terms of "taken in." I think it demonstrates a concern about controversial issues being illuminated on one side and therefore the desire to present another point of view. Q Let me ask you to direct your attention to the article of January 26th. It's on the second page, back page, and in the middle paragraph. It refers to -- the "Business Week" article refers to the fact that "Economists calculate that about 6 percent of total personal health expenditures are caused by smoking-related illnesses." Do you see that? Second main paragraph. A Yes, I do. Q And it goes on to talk about Kenneth "Warner estimates that smoking cost the nation about $40 billion in 1980, of which $12 billion went t . directly for medical expenses and $28 billion ~ f represented,productivity losses caused by worker c illness and mortality." i 0 1 63
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a 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 r 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 the question. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Did you have an understanding in the medical care community that there were people that were paying for the health care costs of employees of companies? A Generally, yes. Q Did you have a health care plan yourself? A Yes. Q Who was that through? A It was basically Reynolds' own HMO. Q And you understood that insurers provided health care payments for medical costs. A Sure. Q And you understood that there was often ' employer and employee plans as well as employer-only plans in the market; correct? A Yes. Q And did you understand, when I read you this from Mr. Durden's article, what he was saying was that he was looking at this issue of the union's double stake in reducing health costs? Did you understand what that meant, the double stake? MR. SIEGLER: Counsel, you may have misspoken. I think you said Mr. Durden's article. 0 1 57 1
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• 1 2 3 4 ~ 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 ~ 16 17 18 19 20 i 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 whether they be smokers or nonsmokers. Fair enough? A Well, I think that probably describes any large company in the United States at the time and since that time eah , y . Q Right. Now, in the first sentence of this document, if you could look at Exhibit 3, he says, "Earlier productions about the development of the 'social costs' issue in smoking are coming through a little faster than I anticipated," referring to a memo he wrote to Mr. Tucker. Did you understand then that what Mr. Durden was doing in attaching the "Wall Street Journal" article was bringing to the attention of these individuals -- let me finish the question. Did you understand from reading this that the p urpose of this was just to bring to the attention of the people that were on the list of addressees, the "W all Street Journal" article and what was in it? MR. MR. HOWARD: Objection SIEGLER: Counsel to -- form. MR. COPENHAVER: Are you talking abo ut his present understanding? MR. WITHEY: Yeah. c.n : MR. COPENHAVER: Because he wasn't here when rc~ LJ this wa s ge nerated. 59 I
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 • 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HOWARD: The order's been clear here. I think the problem is your question is did you understand, and maybe we just didn't understand what you were asking him. MR. WITHEY: Fine. Then say vague as to time. That will alert me to the objection. Q Let's go back to the question. Do you now understand, having read some of this document, Mr. Durden was bringing to the attention of the addressees this "Wall Street Journal" article and commenting upon it? A If I may say yes, and precisely what I do in my current position when I see things that I think are of interest to my employer, news clips or whatever. I circulate them for information. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 4 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: 0 Let me ask you to look at Exhibit 4, sir. Exhibit 4 is a memo from Dennis Durden attached an article from "Business Week," "Subject: Social Costs Piece in 'Business Week, "" February 10th, 1982, Bates No. 50213 5791. You're on the addressee list of this; is that correct? A Yes, I am. 0 1 61
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q Who is Mr. E. Caglarcan? Do you know? A He was somebody who worked for or in the department of Mr. Durden, I think, for a year or two. I'm not even sure -- yeah, I think he was in-house. He was an employee as opposed to a consultant. Q What was Mr. Durden's department? A Public affairs. Q For which company? A For the parent company which at the time was R.J. Reynolds Industries. Q The memo attaches a copy of a°Business Week" -- first of all, do you recall receiving this at the time, sir? A Not specifically. I've seen a lot of documents in the last 15, 20 years, more than I'd like to see. Q The article -- excuse me. Mr. Durden's memo expresses concern that many of these business people who would be reading the "Business Week" have been taken in by antismoking allegations. Therefore, they may be predisposed to believe the allegations set out there. And that they may indulge in even stronger feelings about letting our industry and customers pay more of the growing tax bills. Do you see that? A I dQ. R) 0 1 62
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5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 ! • 21 22 23 24 25 Do you see that? A Yes. Q Wasn't it true then that your company and Mr. Durden, at least, and you in reading this, understood that the social cost adherents, the people who were advancing this, were seeking to impose what they believed to be the medical costs of smoking back onto the industry or smokers as opposed to being paid for by third-party payors? MR. HOWARD: Object to form. THE WITNESS: I think what this represents is an identification of.a potential and merging issue of trying to make -- trying to recoup costs that someone was bearing as a result of people's individual lifestyles. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, okay. The cost that was going to be recouped, though, you understood from this article at least to be the cost of the medical care for smokers; correct? A That would be my take from reading this. Again, I don't recall this from -- when I might have read it originally, but I read it, certainly. Q But you understand at least what Mr. Durden was saying in the second paragraph that 0 1 64 1
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taxation or shifting of tax burdens or other form of asking someone to pay for a cost that something in society is bearing. BY MR. WITHEY: Q In the specifics of this article, in this document, in this case that I'm referring to, not in general, the concern that Mr. Durden had, and expressed it to you, was it not, that if these business people continued to believe this, we might ~ 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 end up having to pay, through taxes, the costs of this health care provided to the smokers? A I think that's a fair conclusion. Q Now, I want to ask you some questions about the basic objectives of this effort. I've got a document. This is in the INFOTAB time period, but that was a continuous effort between ICOSI and INFOTAB. It changed a little bit as you've testified to. A That's correct. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 5 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Let's look at INFOTAB if we could. This is Exhibit 5, I think. Did I identify that correctly? A Yes. Q This is again a document that was -- I 0 1 67
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• 0 • • 0 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 24 25 don't have a Bates number on it, but it's Bates -- there is a Bates number on it, but I can't read it. Can you? Looks like 50311 31. This is a presentation on social costs/social values to INFOTAB board of directors meeting, October 31st, 1983. Did you attend from time to time the board of directors meetings of INFOTAB, sir? A Yes, I did. I don't know specifically whether I was at this one, but I attended a number of the board meetings, yes. Q I want to direct your attention just to page 2 of the document here. The statement is made that "several project objectives emerged." And this is again -- this refers -- by the way, if you could go back to the prior paragraph, "During 1979 SAWP was asked to focus special efforts on 'social costs.'"A Yes. Q This is really recitation, I take it, of a kind of historical development from '79 until the present time period which would have been '83. Do you take it that way as well, sir? A If what you're saying is this is sort of an update of how this group has worked on what they identified as a project or an objective in '79, yes. Q Isn't it fair to state that one of the 68
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10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 0 0 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 project objectives, sir, was to demonstrate that, quote, unquote, "social costs" allegations were fallacious? A Again, my problem in this statement is. again, it comes out appearing as if it's black and white, whereas I recall I think the idea was to raise questions about the validity of some of the assumptions that went to social costs and then also to add other elements to the discussion on social costs that perhaps have not been included in the articulation by those who were seeking to impose social costs on the industry. Q So your testimony is it wasn't so much demonstrating the fallaciousness of the economic reasons of social costs, but rather just to put the other side in; is that correct? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: No. I guess I was just perhaps dealing with the semantics here, the sound to black and white saying social costs -- it's all or nothing. And I was just trying to say that, there again, this is a very complex area of discussion by people whose expertise I don't particularly share in the whole social economist, social scientist area. It's very complex. And I think to try and just deal with this 69
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1 • 2 3 8 9 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 • 0 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 40 24 25 this was another element of the general smoking controversy, smoking health controversy, and that it wouldn't be in the companies' or the industry's best interest to allow that to be one-sided. So again, since this all came back into the context of ICOSI and the work that was being done there, I think it was a valid exercise to be able to interject another side, another point of view into this debate. It's clear that there was a controversy. I don't think things were -- this article would appear to be -- makes very definitive one-sided types of conclusions. And I think whether it's this issue or something else, the media has an ability to sway people's points of view. And they based judgments or decisions on that that they may not be the right judgments. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Okay. The question I asked was did the industry oppose efforts to place the costs of health care for smokers on itself as opposed to the people who were paying for it, the third-party payors. MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: I believe generally the industry was opposed to what might be considered to be unfair » I 66 1
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• i • • • • 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 I've asked you to look at and have quoted to you, that these -- some of the top or what he calls business people or top-level business people "may indulge in even stronger feelings about letting our industry', -- that means the tobacco industry; correct? -- "and customers" -- that means smokers; correct? A Correct. Q -- "pay more of the growing tax bills." Do you see that phrase? A Yes. Q And that was the concern, was it not, that there would be taxes that would require the industry and its customers to pay for -- through taxes, pay for more of the medical costs that supposedly was attributable to smoking? That was your understanding; correct? A Yes, it is. Q And that was something that the industry and you and R.J.R. International opposed the imposition of this cost, if you will, social costs, from people who were paying the medical bills of smokers onto the industry. You opposed that; correct? cn ,.. MR. COPENHAVER: Objection to form. N THE WITNESS: Well, I think what we -- what I ~ m recall, our position at the time was basically that ~ ~ 65
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1 0 10 12 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 many other industries, and there are benefits to that, tn both direct and indirect, subsuppliers. That's ~ another benefit that comes into it that's, you know, W x 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 societal or broader than just an individual. Q Anything else? A That's pretty much what -- Q You've just identified what might be called, quote, unquote, benefits to society of a tobacco industry. A Right. Q Now I'm going to ask you a little bit different question. I think it's different. Is there any social benefit of smoking? That you can think of. A If I may ask, I presume you're asking a question of beyond the individual -- Q Yes. A -- the individual enjoyment or benefit that the individual perceives, is there a societal benefit from people smoking? Q Yes, correct. A I'm not sure what a societal group benefit would be other than the social aspect of sharing a cigarette. Q Which you've already mentioned. Now, the third project objective is ,. . Ri V 0 1 73
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• 8 9 • 10 11 12 • 13 14 • 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 Q Mr. Marcotullio, you've been shown what's been marked as Exhibit 6, a January 6, 1979 memo from David Narr to Mr. Dennis Durden, Subject: "Social cost of smoking: Literature review," Bates No. cn f.. 521040349 ft1 . ou? L•! ~.. L! Do you have that document in front of N A I do. Q I directed your attention at the break to the last paragraph on the first page in the first paragraph on page 2, have I not? A You have. Q Have you had an opportunity to read those paragraphs, brief opportunity? A Yes, I have. Q Now, as I understand this paragraph, what Mr. Narr is doing -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- is summarizing that the argument is linking smoking to increased social costs. This isn't R.J.R.'s position. This is what other people are saying? A That's my understanding as well. Q Just to be sure, this wasn't what R.J.R. is saying? A That's correct. Q Mr. Narr is characterizing the argument 78
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• 10 11 12 13 14 • 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 0 21 22 23 • 24 25 analyze the antismoking movement. Do you see that? A Yes, I do.. Q Isn't it true that at the time there was a general belief within ICOSI that the antismoking movement was harmful to society? A I don't know if it was harmful, perceived as harmful to society. Certainly it was perceived as being potentially harmful to the industry and to my employer, sure. Q Would you, if you had seen a document of ICOSI back in 1979, 1980, 181, that said one of the program or project objectives is to publicize the fact that antismoking movement or advocates are harmful to societies, you would have said no, that's not right. Would you not have? A I think I understand your question, but I'm not sure I would have raised any specific objections. Depends on the context in which that would have come up. Q How about a document of ICOSI that listed that as one of the program objectives, that what we want to do is establish that antismoking movement is harmful to society? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection. THE WITNESS: I'd really have to see that in • I 74
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13 0 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 A That's fine. Q The second project objective was to document the social benefits of smoking. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q What are the social benefits of smoking? A As I recall, the social.benefits that were being discussed here around the time of this are what does smoking mean to an individual. I mean, smoking, you often hear of it relaxes people because it gives them something to do if they're waiting for somebody. it kind of fills the.time. People use it sometimes as a pause. If they're meeting somebody, light up and you don't have to immediately engage in a discussion. There's the sheer enjoyment of it. People enjoy the ritualistic aspect of it, and it helps them think by gazing at the smoke they exhale. There are a lot of different areas in which people derive benefits -- I shouldn't say benefits. Q Quote, unquote is what you just did? A Yes. Q You used the quote sign with your fingers just then? A Yeah. Smoking means different things to 71
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• • • • • 10 11 12 0 • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 that unrestricted smoking is costly to a business enterprise." Was that ever discussed as part of a project objective of either ICOSI or INFOTAB? cn ~ V A I don't have a specific recollection of that. Only just any response I would have to give would be as a response to reading this in this document. I just don't recall it. Q The fifth project objective notice is to "Show that the 'social cost' argument explicitly represents a threat to current notions of personal freedom in many countries." Did you believe that to be true? A It's difficult for me to tell you at this point in time what my state of mind was then. So I don't know whether or not you're interested in what my current state of mind is, and I'm not trying to hedge ith I t d 't -- w you. jus on Q You don't recall what you were thinking thi d t? th ocumen en on s A This was what, 16 years ago? I lot of miles between Q then and now. Fair enough. Let me have you -- (Interruption in the proceedings.) (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 6 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: 0 1 77
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10 • 11 16 17 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 0 very simplistically runs some risk of being wrong. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I take it then that you put that in writing at the time that -- your feelings that it's a very complex area and it's being too -- it's not a black and white issue. Do you think you expressed that at the time in writing, sir? A I don't know if I ever put it in writing. I know that there were a lot of discussions on social costs, most of which again I found to be rather complex. But when one starts talking about concrete things, as I mentioned, like absenteeism and all that, when you get down to pragmatics, it's easier for me to follow that type of discussion. I'm not a social scientist or economist. So that's a little bit out of my element. Q The only question is did you put what you just said in writing at the time. A I may have. I don't recall specifically if I did. Q If you see it in any of the documents that we have here, just point it out to me. A I'll be happy to. Q If you don't, it doesn't mean that's every single document you ever read. 70
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• • a 0 10 12 0 • 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 on the state of discussion of one or more issues that were of interest to Reynolds, yes. Q I'm curious about your understanding of the last sentence in this. And, you know, if you need cn to read some other part of it, go ahead. But what I understand the sentence is or -- in other words, there may be a reallocation of social costs, but likely no savings. What I understood from the article, from the paper, was that it's one thing to claim that there's going to be a savings -- in other words, that if people stop smoking, somehow that was going to save 11 13 14 15 money -- and another thing to say but the question reallocation of who pays for their smoking-related illness is a separate question. of Is my understanding roughly correct, sir? A Yes, I would agree with that. Q And by reallocation do you think -- and I know you weren't -- Mr. Narr and you weren't there at the time, but reallocation, as I understand it, means reallocating the costs of smoking diseases and treating smoking diseases from the people that were paying for it on to the industry. That was the goal 16 21 22 23 of these social costs proponents; correct? 24 MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. 25 ~ ~ 83
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• • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 different people. And the social context, since what we're talking about is social benefits, it can be an icebreaker, offering somebody a cigarette as a way of becoming more familiar with somebody that you might not have ordinarily known very well. There are a number of things I recall were discussed in the social benefits side of it. People perceive a value to them. Q To those individuals? A Sure. Q Did you understand, though, that the term "social costs" was looking at a broader issue of cost or benefit to society, not just to individuals? A Yes, I do. Q What is the benefit to society of smoking? A Well, one of the elements which I probably should have mentioned earlier, is that smoking is a significant source of revenue, tax revenue. Tax revenues are spent the way governments see fit, but certainly society presumably benefits by that. Q Anything else? A There's the tobacco industry has been and is a large industry. It's a large employer as are 0 1 72
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 • 21 22 23 24 25 A No. I realize that. And what I'm trying to answer is that I saw it more as being detrimental to the interest of the tobacco industry as opposed being a threat to society at large other than my concern about activists, single-issue groups. to Q Next project objective listed here is to provide a response to charges that unrestricted smoking is costly to a business enterprise. Did you agree that that was one of the objectives at the time, '83 sometime back in '79. A I believe this was an '83 document, wasn't it? Q Right. But it's referring to -- the prior paragraph, if you read that, during 1979 SAWP was asked to focus special efforts on social costs as at about this time several project objectives emerged? A I certainly wouldn't have been involved in those earlier of the discussions because, again, I joined in October of '79. I think I attended my first ICOSI meeting in 1980. Q Well, all right. A Or very late '79. So I wouldn't have been a part of that aspect of it. That's why I was referring back to the '83. Q Next was "Provide a response to charges 0 1 76
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the context of the document. In isolation it's really ~ 10 li 12 0 0 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 very difficult to respond to. cn ,,. BY MR. WITHEY: ~ Q Do you recall that being discussed in any L, ro of the meetings? 0 A Not specifically, not the way you're phrasing it. Q Do you recall that in any document you reviewed? A Not specifically. Q Do you believe that to be true? A Again, looking at it in terms of, you know, black/white type of things, I personally have some concern about single-issue activist groups, whether it be tobacco oriented or otherwise. Actually putting aside tobacco, if there are extremely active groups that are focused on one particular single issue, I sometimes get a bit suspicious as to what their motives are. Again, I think I saw -- the context in which you're raising the question to me is really one that's more specific to whether or not there were some threat to the industry itself as opposed to the public at least. obviously antismoking groups -- Q No. The question as society. ~ I 75
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smoking-related medical costs? ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 • 15 16 17 0 18 19 20 6 21 22 23 r 24 25 MR. COPENHAVER: Objection. Vagueness. MR. SIEGLER: Objection as to time. THE WITNESS: I was certainly going to raise, myself, this is the first time I recall seeing this. This obviously precedes my employment, and I don't recall any specific discussions on this issue of a safety tax and shifting burdens in this context. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, did you understand, though, that one of the goals, as they put it here, of the public policy proposals related to this issue are to reduce health care costs by reducing smoking incidence? MR. HOWARD: Objection. Vague as to time. BY MR. WITHEY: Q At any time when you worked for R.J.R. International, did you ever have that understanding, that a goal of these proposals was to reduce health care costs by reducing smoking? A Yes. Q And you understood that the goal -- a goal might be to end the subsidy of smoking and its health cost by the nonsmoking public and induce the development of safer cigarettes. Did you understand that as well? M I 80
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0 6 0 0 ~ 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 0 16 17 r 18 19 20 40 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 0 heard that articulated in that way. Q But you see that Mr. Narr articulates that proponent's argument; correct? A I think what he's doing is again EA ,_• LD repeating what others had said because he's rk) u summarizing somebody else's. But again, I don't think 4^ ~ that's Reynolds' articulation. Q I'm not saying it's Reynolds'. I'm saying was that understanding that that's what other people were saying, was that something within your work? Was that something that you not thought about every day, but realize, yeah, that's people out there saying that? A I personally didn't come to that conclusion, but obviously that's what's being reported here in this document. Q You understood, at least generally without having read the whole document, the purpose is to give Mr. Durden just a summary of some of the literature on the social costs; correct? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection. MR. SIEGLER: Objection to form, speculation. MR. WITHEY: It's what's in the title. Q Go ahead. Is that your understanding? A I would view this again as being a report 1 8 2
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• ~ 10 11 12 14 • 17 ~ 18 19 20 w f) for social costs; correct? A Well, I haven't read the rest of the document, but what you've said is he appears to be summarizing the stated discussion or what others have said about it. Q And the basic argument, if you want to call it that, is that the burden should be shifted to smokers and cigarette manufacturers through legal means, legislation and the like; correct? A That's what he's saying the literature he's reviewed is concluding, yes. Q And the burden includes to recover medical costs; correct? Again, the first paragraph -- A Yes, that's correct. 13 15 Q And that could be accomplished through legal means, legislation, including a safety tax. Do you see that as one of the suggestions? A Yes. Although I'm not sure what a safety tax is. I see -- reading further on, I see where they're getting it. Q Did you have an understanding at the time that one of the arguments, if you will, of people that were advancing the social costs argument was that a safety tax might induce manufacturers to produce safer cigarettes and provide the means to pay for 16 21 22 23 24 25 79
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0 1 ~ 2 3 4 6 i 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 t 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 / r 21 22 23 24 25 so those costs would go down? A I understand the logic of that, assuming that the foundations are correct. Q So you can see that point is what I'm asking. A Yes. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 7 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Now, Exhibit 7 is a document that we don't need to deal with because you already answered the question. But it is again a Narr to Durden memo, January 10th, '79, regarding social costs of smoking, strategic assessment. And it verifies that the ultimate objective of the industry appears to be to preserve its ability to profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes. Do you see that second paragraph? MR. COPENHAVER: Could I see that? MR. WITHEY: I beg your pardon, Counsel. Q Now, on the second page of that document -- I'm sorry. Go back to the first page. cn µ ko ' Mr. Narr again discusses the two basic issues N; a affecting the industry's ability to achieve that 4; W objective, that is, to profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes. Do you see that? 0 1 89
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• 0 . a ~ 10 11 12 13 4 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 ; 21 22 23 24 25 A I'm not sure whose goal we're referring to here. Q The social cost argument goal. Not the tobacco industry's goal. A I don't recall seeing it in these terms. The way I always saw it was basically to impose a more affirmative tax, if you will, as a way of making the industry pay for something. Q Pay for such things as the medical costs of smokers; correct? A Generally, yes. Q Did you have any understanding that the social cost proponents believe that if the tobacco industry had to pay through safety taxes or taxes or through litigation or legislation, had to pay the costs of people who went to their doctors that the doctors believe was related to smoking, that the industry had to pay for that, they might have a financial incentive to develop a safer cigarette that caused less disease? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You never had that understanding? A No, I've never had that understanding nor 81
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6 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 it 16 17 r 18 19 20 0 21 22 23 A 24 25 A I agree with that. Q They didn't want it shifted onto them. Fair enough? A Correct. Q Because it's fair to state, is it not, that the goal -- I shouldn't say the goal, but a goal of the industry, including ICOSI, was to preserve its ability to profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes. Fair enough? A Yes. Q And you understood that, at least according to these social costs proponents -- and we read Mr. Ken Warner's statement from the "Business Week" I think earlier. But you understood that they believe that since smoking causes disease, there's a relationship between increased cigarette consumption and the demand for health care, i.e., health care costs. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what you're asking me. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'm asking whether you had that understanding that that's what the proponents were saying, that if you increased cigarette consumption 0 1 85
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~ 10 11 12 A 1 17 ~ 18 19 20 fj (0 THE WITNESS: If I may say, there's obviously a lot of assumptions in the way you're couching that. But if I may comment in general, about someone paying for a cost obviously to me represents that there's the question of shifting the burden from one party to another party. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Fair enough. Reallocation, shifting, whatever you want -- whatever term you apply to it, it's the same basic idea; correct? A Yeah. But there was a very strong fundamental conclusion that you had raised in your statement about that there are these costs. I just want to make sure that I'm not being asked to agree with the premise. Q No, no, no. All I'm asking you is not to agree with the social costs proponents, but rather to acknowledge that at least within R.J.R. parent and international and in your work, there was some understanding that that was one of their goals. The proponent was kind of trying to shift or reallocate costs. 13 14 15 16 21 22 A Yes, I agree with that. Q And the industry was saying, no, we don't think that's fair. 23 24 25 84
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` 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 It 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 and increased smoking, that then you're going to increase the costs for health care for those smokers. A I'm hesitating only because I don't recall it in precisely the terms of increasing one aspect and therefore increasing a cost. But certainly the underlying argument that was being made by the smoking cost advocates was that there is a cost on account of smoking. Q Right. A It's the increase side that kind of threw me. I'm not sure I quite knew what you meant by that. Q I'm just asking at the time -- understand at the time that there was a proportion between the number of people smoking and how many cigarettes they smoked and the cost of treating diseases that they believed to be related to that smoking. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Because of the objection, let me rephrase it. In other words, if you had twice as much cigarette consumption as was real in 1979, when you first started, then years later, according to those proponents, those people would get sick of smoking-related illnesses and incur medical costs. Did you have an understanding that that was part of 86
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 17 « 18 19 20 A • 21 22 23 24 25 r because -- let me just ask you this: Do you have any understanding according to -- well, I'm going to ask you to recall what Narr said to Durden about the inducing manufacturers to produce safer cigarettes to providing a means to pay for smoking-related medical costs. A This is Exhibit 6 again. Q Yeah. Just with that in mind, I'm going to ask you a question. How would -- if you can think of it, how would a safer cigarette be the financial self-interest of the tobacco industry if, if, they had to pay for the medical costs of smokers as opposed to third-party medical care payors? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Incomplete hypothetical. MR. HOWARD: Objection. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you understand my question? A I'm not sure I do. Q Do you understand -- when Mr. Narr, in this case, talks about safer cigarettes in this context, do you understand that what is being suggested is that if the tobacco industry has to pay for the health care costs of smokers, it might be in their financial interest to develop safer cigarettes 88
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0 • M • • 0 a 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I think countermeasures would be things that the industry felt would be appropriate to do in response to the criticism of the debate, whether it's dissemination of information. Countermeasures guess it's how you interpret countermeasures. -- I Q One of the countermeasures can allow the industry to buy time to develop a safer cigarette? A I've never heard it in that context. Q Wouldn't that stand to reason, though? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You were there for what, you know, ten years working on this thing. Wasn't that one of the countermeasures that was contemplated? A Not in my dealings with the ICOSI. Q You never saw that, then. Never heard of that. A No, not in the context of product development. Really wasn't in the context of this -- Q Why don't we direct our attention to the fifth paragraph. You see where it says, "an effective. strategy"? It says, "build constituency relations programs to help us fend off damaging legislation or government programs; and buy time to allow the 0 1 93
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• 0 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 w 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 industry to develop safer cigarettes and the public to accept them." Do you see that? A Yes. Q Would that be inappropriate in your judgment? A I think it all depends on what's meant by develop safer cigarettes. I mean, some people would say that lowering tar and nicotine has a safety-to-your-health implication. Q Did you believe that? A Pardon me? Q Did you believe that lower tar and nicotine would be safer? A I don't really know. Again, I don't think it's within my area of competence to comment on that. I just -- Q You never had -- you never asked that question to someone of public affairs -- "By the way, what about these low-tar, low-nicotine cigarettes? Are they going to be any safer?" A The only way in which I ever discussed them was in the context of products that suited various tastes and what people wanted. Q You never talked about the health issue, the safety issue I take it. In that context. 0 94 1
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• 0 0 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 e 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 0 A Yes, I do. 1 Q "One is the medical/scientific arguments 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 linking smoking to increased mortality and illness thus to increasing direct and indirect costs of smoking to society as a whole." Do you see that? A I do. Q Is it your understanding in reading this -- again, you're not Mr. Narr, so if you don't understand what he meant, that's fine. But I just wanted to get your understanding of this R.J.R. document -- that one of the issues affecting the and industry's ability to profit from the manufacture and 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 sale of cigarettes is the medical and scientific arguments linking smoking to increased mortality and increasing direct and indirect costs of smoking to society? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Did you have that understanding at the time? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. I'll interpose an objection vague as to time. MR. WITHEY: Sure. THE WITNESS: Not in the way you articulate it unless it follows that then there would be an 0 1 90
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• • • • • a A I'm not sure I can. Q All right. A I may, but I'm not sure if I can. Q Let's go on to page 2, in the third paragraph. A I'm sorry. Would you repeat which paragraph. Q Page 2, third paragraph of this document, which is Bates No. 51388 7693, at least the cover page 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 19 20 4 21 22 is. There is a discussion there about countermeasures taken by industry to neutralize antismoking strategies and enhance its ability to achieve its commercial objectives. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q The term "countermeasures" is used in a number of the Social Acceptability Working Paper documents; correct? A Uh-huh. Q You have to answer yes. A Yes. Q And countermeasures are those measures cn ui --J f6 W .:. taken,by the tobacco industry or the tobacco industry m 23 or the members of ICOSI to neutralize antismoking 24 strategies; correct? 25 • 1 92
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w • 5 6 7 • 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 is 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 i 20 21 22 23 . 24 25 which might keep us away from the problem of arguing the value of human life." What does that mean to you? BY MR. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. WITHEY: Q If it means anything. A It obviously does not mean an awful lot to me. I find that there are three or four different currents running through this, which aren't yet necessarily connected in my mind. I find this a very confusing statement. MR. WITHEY: Let's take (Lunch recess.) a lunch break. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Mr. Marcotullio, I'm going to start focusing in this afternoon on some of the activities and meetings and papers of what was called the Social Acceptance Working Party, which was some sort of -- was under ICOSI a nd later INFOTAB; correct? A Social Acceptability Working Party. Q Soci al Acceptability Working Party. is Cn that what it was called? U) V rv A Yes. You were in on that working party? A That's cOrrect. w h+ cn H 0 1 97
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• 1 • 2 3 4 5 • 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 r 21 22 23 24 25 A You're asking me to comment on something that's very general, very vague. Q I'm asking you whether you ever had any discussions with anybody who asked you, someone in public affairs, anybody ever asked you, "By the way, these low-tar, low-nicotine cigarettes, are they safe?" Did anyone ever ask you to -- did you ever express any opinion, anyone you worked with at Reynolds International? A Inside the company? Q Anywhere. Outside, inside, someone on the street. A I don't recall specifically of any specific instances of that, no. Q Now, Mr. Narr -- on page 3 it states, "that, in the long run" -- you see that in the top paragraph? A Yes, I do. Q -- "the economic costs of reducing disease and delaying death could well outweigh the alleged benefits (what are they, by the way?).° Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Then he goes on to say, "We could argue, in other words, that there might be a reallocation of 0 1 95
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0 9 (10 10 11 12 0 it 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 4 their argument? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Hypothetical. THE WITNESS: I'm not trying to nitpick, but it's only in terms that you're putting ratio and quantifiers on a twice as much of one leads to twice as much of another. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I didn't say twice as much. If you have 5 6 7 8 twice as much smoking, according to the proponents again, the argument was you'd increase the costs of medical care for those smokers, those additional smokers, because of their smoking. That was their argument. A To me it's very simple. The argument was if you have people who are smoking, they would say that those smokers, their smoking results in social costs. 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 Q Including medical costs? A Of course, yes. Q And you understood -- okay. Now, do you understand the terms internalized cost and externalized costs, generally? A Very generally. You'd have to provide specifics to see if I really understood it. Q Well, let's don't use those terms
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I costs, but no reduction and possibly an increase." Do you see that? A Uh-huh. Yes, I do. Q i 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 40 21 22 23 24 25 "This might keep us away from the problem of arguing the value of human life." Having worked with him and with R.J.R. International and reading that sentence, those sentences, what does that mean to you? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection. Lack of foundation. MR. HOWARD: Objection. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A First of all, I didn't work very closely with Mr. Narr. I knew him but didn't work with him. But if I may read this paragraph again, if you don't mind. Q Sure. Of course. A I find it somewhat confusing whether or not he's putting forth his own argument or this reference to Gori. Q Well, it's -- "We could argue" -- let's go down to that. "We could argue there might be a reallocation of costs" -- we talked about this earlier -- "but no reduction and possibly an increase 0 1 96
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1 0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • 1A 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q Who was Mary Covington? A Mary Covington at one point in her career was an employee of Philip Morris International in the public affairs area. And at one point she also was secretary general of either ICOSI or INFOTAB. I forget at which point in its history. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 8 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q All right. Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit 8. This is a document produced discovery by -- I think it was by Philip Morris, in bearing the Bates No. 2015049274. It has the name Mary Covington on the top of it. It's "SAWP countermeasures development subcommittee proposals to ICOSI executive committee, Scottsdale, September 9 and 10, 1979," which again would have preceded your involvement, but there are various projects that I think are discussed here that you may have some familiarity with. Okay? A Okay. Q First of all, what was on the ICOSI executive committee when you came aboard, if you recall? Were they representatives of tobacco industries in the United States that you mentioned as well as the international affiliates? • 1 98
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• • • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 0 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 A I was not a representative of Reynolds with the Tobacco Institute of the United States. So again, my responsibilities were outside the U.S. Q Right. But I'm asking if you know whether the MNA's in the United States were used in this context at any time when you were at Reynolds International. A The information was certainly shared with the Tobacco Institute, and at times they participated in larger meetings, you know, discussion meetings. Q All right. Let me ask you, one of the action plan -- or excuse me, action plan areas for countermeasure is identified on pages -- looks like 2 and 3 of this report; correct? A Mine doesn't have any page numbers. I'm not sure. Q The second and third -- A I have single sides here. Q Well, unfortunately the question I have is on the page that you don't have, and we'll make a copy for you. At the break we'll amend this exhibit and make sure we have all the pages. Let me hand you my copy of it. A If you identify the number, I can -- if there's a number next to it. 0 1 101
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0 • ' 0 4 24 imposition of cost burdens. on the tobacco industry. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I see. You're right. A There's an element missing. Q You're right. In other words, it's not just the argument, it's the actual imposition of costs that threaten profits? 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 25 A That was one more step in there that brings it back. Q If, for instance, the tobacco industry had to incur the increasing direct and indirect costs, let's say, of medical bills, that would affect its profits. A Sure. Any increased cost out of the ordinary commercial transaction would eat into profits. Q Of course. I guess we should add unless the tobacco industry's product was altered to not cause illness, then the profits -- maybe then the costs could go down. Fair enough? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: That's an incomplete hypothetical. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. 91
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• • • • 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Ak 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tobacco? A Yes. Q All right. Now, this Exhibit 8 describes objectives of this countermeasures development subcommittee. Do you see that? Paragraph number -- A At the bottom? Q Yeah. And including preparing proposals for an action plan. Do you see that there? A I do. Q Now, it says that these are -- that action plan had "to develop social acceptability countermeasures that can be used by national manufacturer's association." Is that right? A That's what it says, yes. Q How were the NMA's utilized in this connection? A As I recall, essentially the NMA's -- information developed by ICOSI was shared with National Manufacturer's Association, and it was their choice or option to utilize the information developed or not. They were not members of ICOSI at that time. Q Well, did you in the United States ever use the National Manufacturer's Association in this, as part of the action plan to develop social acceptability countermeasures?
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 6 • 21 22 23 24 25 Q The Bates number is 2015049276. Do you have it in front of you there? A Yes, I do. Q Do you see that one of the areas of -- well, of work was called discrediting the anti's? Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Was that one of the action areas or countermeasures th at was performed by this SAWP? MR. HOWARD: I'm sorry, Counsel. I'm going to have to object and ask that we get an entire copy of this thing so we c an read that in context. MR. WITHEY: Sure, Counsel. Would you mind doing that again? MR. HOWAR D: Give it to the witness. He's more im orta t p n . MR. SIEGL ER: If we could have a moment here. MR. WITHE Y: Yeah. You got it right there. THE WITNE SS: Would you mind repeating the question? BY MR. WITHEY: tn r Q The question is do you see re ference to u -J ra discrediting the anti's in that document? r.. cn m A Q Yes, I do. Was that one of the areas of work that 0 1 102
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• 0 0 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 ICOSI. MR. WITHEY: Move to strike as nonresponsive. Do you mind reading the witness the question back? (Record read.) MR. SIEGLER: I'll object. No foundation and asked and answered and argumentative. THE WITNESS: As I read further down on the memo, it would seem that the 10 was not the WHO. But in answer to your original question, I don't recall what the original 10 was. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Why did you put quotes around the word sponsor in the third paragraph, second line? A I don't know. Q Was it because of the fact that the tobacco industry or ICOSI or whoever was sponsoring this, was insisting this should not be known to the participants of this international organization or conference? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: I don't recall that that was the reason for doing so. My own particular style of writing, I think this states to me that it still was unclear whether."sponsor" was the right word. So I,
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• 1 ` 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • • • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I'm not sure whether it was an executive committee or board of directors, but the senior group would have been representatives from each of the member companies. Q Okay. And that included some companies from Great Britain? A Yes, it did. Q And including -- is Imperial Tobacco Canada or Great Britain? A Imperial Tobacco is Great Britain. Q How about Gallaher? Is that a name of a company? A I'm familiar with Gallaher. I believe Gallagher was a member at the time. Q How about Reemtsma, R-e-e-m-t-s-m-a? A Reemtsma is a German tobacco company. Q How about Rothmans? A Rothmans is U.K. Q Those were all members of ICOSI; correct? A I believe so, yes. Q Do you know of any other members of other than the ones you've mentioned? ICOSI A No. As long as that includes the two U.S. companies. Q Right. And B.A.T., British-American Cn W 0 1 99 1
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q Such as what? A The association in the U.K. or Germany or France. Q Tobacco Institute? A They would certainly have access to the information, sure. Q All right. Now, it talks about develop for dissemination profiles. That would be profiles on the anti's? MR. SIEGLER: objection. No foundation. Speculation. THE WITNESS: My recollection would be that it was identifying who the more active antismoking organizations were and what their platform was. BY MR. WITHEY: Q We'11 ask more about that. If we can get a copy of this. A Do you want that back? MR. WITHEY: Adam, if you could get someone from your staff and do it, I'm going to go ahead and continue asking questions. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 9 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q why don't you take a look at 9 while we're taking a quick break, and I'll ask you some • 106
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• • • • ~ 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 was, and therefore the context of sponsorship as sponsorship is correct. So I certainly can't, you know, comment on whether or not the way you describe it is accurate. I just don't recall. Q Why don't we look at the next page, sir. You wrote this memo, and I wasn't there, but it seems to me that this memo indicates, according to the Germans, "any money given or sponsorship by the industry 'cannot' be made public." Do you see that? A Which paragraph? Q Second page, first full paragraph. A I see it. Okay. Q One of the reasons there is "the international organization cannot allow it or it would lose WHO money." Do you see the words you wrote there? A I do see that. Q Reading that, do you think there was a concern expressed, at least by the Germans, that the industry sponsorship of this symposium should not be made known to the public? ~~ .. ~ v A Well, that would appear to be a literal ft) W ~ assumption from this, yes. m; Q And that the 10, whatever this organization was, could lose money from the World 112
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1 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ,a 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 19 20 24 25 trying to be fairly precise in my writing, I probably put it in quotes, but I -- your articulation is not what I recall being -- BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, clearly the identification of who was the, quote, unquote, "sponsor" was considered very confidential; correct? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Argumentative. MR. WITHEY: No. It's what he said. MR. SIEGLER: No. When you use words like "clearly," that was the point of it. MR. WITHEY: All right. Q Is that right? Or that's clear from this memo; isn't it? A I would only have to rely on this memo, but it's -- you know, this is going back 19 years, and I don't recall the specifics of this as such. I mean, I recognize my memo here. Q Well, certainly there was a concern, was there not, that any money given or sponsorship by the tobacco industry could not be made or should not be made public? A No, I wouldn't say that that's necessarily a concern. I just don't recall the particular nature of this conference and who the 10 111
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• • • • 0 • 0 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 but not in the sense of mass communication publications, no. Q That's because ICOSI didn't publish -- didn't publish itself; correct? A That's correct. Q It wasn't a public organization; correct? A Well, not public in the sense it didn't have a public mandate to be a spokesperson industry. for the Q Right. They weren't issuing press releases, in other words. A That's correct. Q But the purpose of the action plan of discrediting the anti's was the member companies or their trade associations could do that; correct? MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer it. A I'm really not sure -- Q Who was going to develop -- it says, by the way, on the [n previous page, the context of this is ~• ~ v a public relations campaign to affect public opinion. r~ w ~ A It says change public opinion. ~ Q Who was it that was going to change public opinion, or did try to change public opinion if 104
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1 0 • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 da 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 A The only one that would come to mine would be the World Health Organization, but I'm not sure. Q The next paragraph says that the 10, international organization, supports WHO education programs. Do you see that? A Yeah. Q Would that indicate that the 10 wasn't the WHO or not? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Argumentative. THE WITNESS: I'd like to point out one thing if I may. BY MR. WITHEY: Q If you can answer the question, that's fine. Go ahead. Point out whatever you want. A Well, I'll try and answer the question, and then I'd like to have the opportunity to point something out on it. I really don't recall what the reference is there. The reason I wanted to point something out is that this memo was written by me about 21 days after I joined R.J.R. And as I read this now, it's at least to me very clear that I was reporting back the conversations of a meeting that I had participated in being brand new to the industry, to Reynolds, to 109 t•1 N Cn t4
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 wasn't known to the participants? Would that have been of concern to you? A I think that would be up to the sponsoring organization to feel comfortable with that. Obviously I would assume there was some reason why that was a sensitive issue, but I believe that was an issue for the sponsor. MR. WITHEY: I'm going to move to strike as nonresponsive. Do you want read the question back to the witness. (Record read.) MR. SIEGLER: Could I also have the answer that the witness gave? MR. WITHEY: What for? MR. SIEGLER: Because I would like to see if it's responsive. MR. WITHEY: We have no court to rule on it here. You're making an objection. I'm moving to strike as nonresponsive. We're not going to decide whether it's responsive or not. There's no reason to read the answer back. MR. SIEGLER: I'm going to object. If the question's answered, you can't simply keep asking the question so you get the -- until you like the answer. 114
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1 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Health Organization if it was known that the tobacco industry was giving money or sponsoring this symposium; correct? That's the way I read it. Am I wrong? A That's what this memo reported, yes. Q Okay. And the Germans were concerned that they wouldn't get scientists that they wanted to bring to the program if the industry sponsorship was made public. They were concerned about that, and that's reflected in this memo; correct? A Apparently so. Q Did the symposium take place, Mr. Marcotullio? A I don't recall, but I believe it did not. I don't recall specifically but -- well, the reason why I think not is because I don't recall it taking place. Q Well, do you recall whether this international organization targeted as the symposium sponsor backed out? A I have no idea. No recollection of that. tn N ° Q Did you have any qualms about the idea `~ ro 61 that there might be a symposium held that an international organization would be the sponsor of with tobacco money, tobacco financial support, that 113 m ti
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1 • 2 3 4 0 5 6 0 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 • 13 14 M 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 / 24 25 hypothetical. If I might answer that -- or add that obviously -- and the reason why I said it's up to the sponsor is that if you publicize funding by an organization or an industry, some people may discredit that as being -- or attack that as being evidence that the symposium or whatever, if it took place, had no value or people would just dismiss it. But the key to me is the question of the nature of the symposium that was attended, which I really do not recall, and the nature of the sponsoring organization or the intended sponsor and why they wished that there not be identification of the funding source. Q So if the sponsor of the international organization that you don't recall the name of, but was, according to you, a well-known, well-respected organization headed in Geneva decided that they want the tobacco sponsorship to be known, financial sponsorship should be known, then that would be okay with you? A No. I'm saying "not necessarily" means cn that there's something sinister or evil. f.u u.1 ro Q I'm asking would it be okay with you. h'' A If they didn't want it to be known? ~ Cv Q Yes. 0 1 116
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1 • 0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 The objection is asked and answered. In order for me to make that objection, I would simply like to read the question and answer together. MR. WITHEY: You don't need to. You can object. It's been asked and answered and the court will determine whether it has or hasn't been. I'll withdraw the question. MR. SIEGLER: Thank you. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'm asking you, sir, did you have qualms -- not did some other organization or sponsorship. Did you ever have qualms about the idea of an international organization being the official sponsor of a conference that was funded in whole or in part by the tobacco industry and that that sponsorship, that funding, was not known to the participants of that conference? A Are you asking me if at the time -- Q We'll start with at the time, yeah. Did you have any qualms at the time? A I don't recall that I did. Q Do you have any now? A it all depends on what the nature of the conference was going to be or the nature of the sponsor. It's very difficult to answer that in a
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• • 0 1) 9 ~ 10 11 0 0 A Again, it depends on the nature of the symposium and the setting at the time. Q This symposium. A I really don't recall this symposium. This is simply a brand-new industry, brand-new association, 20 days into it, which I think is valid for my state of mind of writing this. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q You're explaining why you can't answer the question, which is fine. You don't have to explain why you can't. If you can't answer it, fine. You don't need to explain you were only there 20 days. A It's not that I'm choosing not to answer. I can't answer because I don't recall the circumstances. Q Now, the SAWP countermeasures steering committee had something to do with the symposium, didn't it? Page 2, according to your memo to Mr. Tucker. A Apparently, yes. Q was this symposium then seen as part of the work of the SWAP countermeasure steering committee? A I'm not sure what's meant by "part of the work." It obviously was something that was discussed there, but whether it was a discussion that emanated 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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i 1 / 2 3 4 0 • 9 • 10 11 12 r Is 17 r 18 19 20 w 0 from this group for others to pick up on or not, I don't recall. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 10 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q All right. And so -- let's have you look at Exhibit 10, if you could. This is a memo dated June 6, 1980 on R.J.R. International intercompany correspondents from yourself to a number of individuals, again including Mr. Tucker, regarding the ICOSI board of governors meeting in London on May 29, 5 6 7 8 1980, the cover page bearing the Bates No. 50213 4969. Did I correctly identify this? A Yes, you did. Q Now, let me ask you this: To your knowledge, did ICOSI or INFOTAB ever itself sponsor in its name a conference or symposium or meeting or a public event? A Public event, I don't believe so. It mainly had meetings for the industry. But I don't believe it sponsored -- I don't recall it sponsoring any public events. Q I assume when ICOSI had its meeting, or SAWP had its meeting, it was just for the members to come to those meetings generally, the internal meetings; correct? 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 • ~ 118
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1 0 10 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 6 6 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 change of management and Mr. Horrigan was the head of International when I joined it. Q Okay. A And then Mr. Vimond replaced him. I think this might have been the transition period. So I'm not sure where Mr. Hobbs was. I think this might have been the former head of the domestic tobacco. Q At any rate, the combined Reynolds representatives put forth that ICOSI does not have to be a public organization engaged in P.R. activities according to this document; is that correct? A That's correct. Q And that ICOSI, per se, should not fight a head-to-head battle. That was Reynolds' position; correct? A That's also correct. Q is it fair to say that position was followed by ICOSI for the time period that it was in existence? A Yes, it was. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 11 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Now, let's talk a little bit more, handing you what's been marked as Exhibit 11, about some of the countermeasures. This is a December 17th, cn ~ kn J ro F'J ~ ~ 0 1 123
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! 0 / a r 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 A Who was he? Q His position I mean. A Dr. Colby at the time was someone I believed who worked in the R & D group, primarily following the development of tobacco, development of tobacco issues, smoking issues. Q Was he involved with the maintaining of a library at R.J.R.? A I don't know about a library per se. He was someone who was a resource. Q Collected documents? Collected studies? A Yes, he did. Q How about E. J. Jacob? A E. J. Jacob was a lawyer, and the firm of Jacob, Medinger & Finnegan I believe is the -- Q E. G. Vimond, V-i-m-o-n-d? A Actually, I think Mr. Vimond. Mr. Vimond was the -- let me -- I think I was incorrect in talking about the position. Mr. Vimond I believe at this time was the head of the Tobacco international Company. Mr. Horrigan, who had been the head of International, may indeed have already gone over to be head of the domestic company, and Mr. Hobbs I think used to hold that position. Around that time it was a 122
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! 1 ~ 2 3 4 • 0 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 0 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 r on it and shared it with others; correct? A I'm sure I did. Q In fact, George Berman is referred to in -- his work is referred to in the second page of this Exhibit 11; correct? A That's correct. 5 6 7 Q Now, the statement -- I want to focus you on a couple statements in this document. That in the middle of that paragraph under discussion, it states, "George" -- meaning George Berman -- "feels there is provided the basis for a monograph which could be published by a reputable organization such as the American Economic Institute." Do you see that there? A Yes, I do. Q Was it the understanding that this monograph or paper then would not be published directly by any of the tobacco companies, or would not be published by the ICOSI or the SAWP under its name? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. Compound. THE WITNESS: Well, I certainly believe it 8 13 14 15 16 21 would not have been the intention for ICOSI to publish it in its name. BY MR. WITHEY: Q All right. But at least at that time 22 23 24 25 125
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1 • 2 3 4 to 16 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 r 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 41 0 21 22 23 24 25 A That's correct. Q You didn't invite the antismoking advocates to these meetings; right? A No, we did not. Q They probably didn't invite you to their meetings. A That's also correct. Q But according to this document that I take it you wrote -- this is your signature; correct? A That's my first name, yes. That looks like my handwriting. Q According to this document, B.A.T., British-American Tobacco, "Wanted to see more leadership and initiative coming from the Secretariat, but added that this did not mean ICOSI was to have a public role." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Was that generally accepted, that ICOSI should not have a public role in the sense it itself put out publications, held symposiums; et cetera? A Yes, that's generally correct. Q Rather, B.A.T. is imposing that "ICOSI should be active by providing MNA's, the National Manufacturers Association, with the resources that they need." Do you see that?
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! • ~ 10 11 12 13 a r 0 It 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Well, the possibility is that if you look at the actual data, that it would show that smokers die on an average sooner than nonsmokers. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Would that be an example of data that might present some troubled waters, or would that be something the industry would welcome that kind -- MR. COPENHAVER: Objection to form. Fa ~ MR. SIEGLER: Object to that. That's vague and ro [a no foundation. m c.i BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A Well, that certainly would not be something that would be supportive of the industry. But if the data is there, data is data. I mean, it's not something which the industry can do anything other than to either comment on or take into consideration. Q Well, did ICOSI or the SAWP or you ever try to find the data that existed on premature death? A I don't recall ever working on specifics of premature death statistics. Q Do you recall what the data shows? A Only generally from things I've heard repeating the same argument you said, that there is 0 1 129
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0 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 1b 16 17 , 18 19 20 4 21 22 23 0 24 25 Q And did anybody else with Reynolds, either the international side of it or the U.S.A. side of it, or the any side of Reynolds, attending meeting? A The answer is yes. I'm trying to think of who might have been there. Probably Mr. Hobbs and Mr. Horrigan and Mr. Tucker. I'm not sure if Mr. Witt ld h b wou ave een. Q Who was Mr. Hobbs? A Mr. Hobbs was the head of the U.S. Tobacco Company at the time. Q A Q Reynolds? Yes. And Mr. Horrigan? A Was the head of International at the i me. t Q And Mr. Tucker was at the time? A Mr. Tucker was with the domestic tobacco company. I believe he was vice-president of public ffai a rs. Q You "cc" a couple individuals on there, Dr. Colby. You know Dr. Colby, do you not? cn ^ A Yes, I know him. F w _j ro Q Why did you "cc" him? W ~ A Q A matter of interest. Who was he? CII 0 1 121
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! 1 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 12 • a N 6 • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Berman felt it ought to be published by American Economic Institute; correct? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: Apparently so. I don't recall it specifically, but that's what my memo states, yes. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you know what that organization is? A Just vaguely. I don't really recall if they're still in existence or what they really were. Q It's not a manufacturer of cigarettes or tobacco, is it? A Not to my knowledge, no. Q It's not -- do you know if it's affiliated with the Tobacco Institute? A I don't have a clue. Q Do you know if it receives -- had received at that time any money from the tobacco industry? A I have no knowledge of that. Q Now, then you discuss three areas to look at. Do you see that? A I do. Q And then you describe how we -- I assume that means ICOSI and the SAWP, the people involved with this work? 0 1 126
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0 i 9 0 0 18 f • A Most probably, yes. Q -- have to be careful about avoiding what you call "troubled waters." Do you see that? A I do. Q Why is a review and critique of premature death statistics a troubled water for the industry? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: 10 Q Do you see that in No. 2, a review and critique of premature death statistics? Are the premature death statistics you're talking about related to smoking? A Presumably so. 11 12 13 14 15 Q Why would that be a troubled waters that you would be careful to avoid? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation, mischaracterizes the document. THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what question you want me to respond to. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, is one, two, and three in this document on this page, does that relate in some way, shape, or form to the avoiding "troubled waters" 16 17 19 24 25 127
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5 0 6 7 8 9 dF 10 11 12 0 a 0 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes, I do. Q Now, according to the -- under R.J.R., R.J. Reynolds I mean, on the second page of this document -- that was your company; correct? A That's correct. I'm sorry. This is R.J. Reynolds collectively. I worked for Reynolds International, as you know. But there was representation by both Reynolds and Reynolds International or participation, I should say, from time to time. Q Okay. And does this reflect Reynolds' position towards the issues that are discussed in this memo at least? It's the way I rea~ it. Is that right? A May I just read this quickly? Q Of course. A I believe that's an accurate summary of the position, yes. Q And where did this -- where was this position articulated other than in this document, if it was? Was it the board of governors meeting in cn Fr, tP London in May of 1980? SJ ro A I believe it would have been, yes. w ,. J fi Q Did you attend that meeting? A I think I did, yes. 0 1 120
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• • a ~ 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 / 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SIEGLER: Only the witness. MR. WITHEY: You're not here to make objections for the trial judge. You're here if you believe a question is objectionable, you can so object and give the grounds of your objection. That's it. That's all you can do. MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me, Counsel. I'm just trying to help this process along. And I want to be clear about the basis for my objection. You've asked a string of questions that are all hypothetical. This witness is only here as a fact witness, not as an expert witness. He's not competent to -- MR. WITHEY: You're making a speech. Your objection is hypothetical. That's fine. That's a good objection. Your objection is preserved. Thank you. Q Could you answer the question? A I find it very difficult to answer to the hypothetical. Q I could understand why you found it difficult, sir. MR. HOWARD: I object to the gratuitous comments. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I do understand. You explained why it's 0 1 137
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6 ~ 10 11 12 0 9 0 14 4k statement that immediately precedes it, sir? A As I read this, not necessarily. Q Okay. You identify "three areas where we could look at the data and go further, provided that we be careful in avoiding 'troubled waters.'" Did I read that correctly? A That's correct. Q And the three areas that you want to be careful in avoiding trouble waters when you look at the data are these three; correct? A That's not the conclusion that I necessarily draw from here because there could be no -- seriously, there could be other areas that would not be appropriate for us to go into, not necessarily these three. Q What do you mean by avoiding troubled waters then? A I'm not sure. Q All right. Can you imagine that there might be any troubled waters that might be avoided if the ICOSI or SAWP looked at a review and critique of premature death statistics? A Just looking at it and reviewing it, no, 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that's not an area of difficulty. If anybody were to do further work on that, it's a possibility. 25 128
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A ! • • 8 9 ~ 10 12 0 0 18 4 of what the data shows, then I think that's a fair observation. Q Correct. And were you? A Pardon me? Q Were you? A I don't recall. Again, I have to say this goes back almost 19, 20 years. And I just don't recall the specifics of some of the things that were referenced here. Q But it would not sense to you to look at the data, then? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: I think it would be one of many areas that one would look at in trying to determine how people draw their conclusions about the industry you're working with. BY MR. WITHEY: Q And I take it the reason for that would be that you would want to make sure that the positions 11 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 that are developed in this monograph or this paper that would be published by somebody, would at least be 21 supported by the existing -- data that exists as opposed to a position that would be unsupported by that data. Fair enough? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection to the form. 22 23 24 25 ~ 1 132
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1 • 9 ~ 10 11 12 w 0 1979 interoffice document written by you to a number of individuals within the Reynolds' group bearing Bates Nos. 50209 1507, a four-page document. You wrote this; correct? A Yes, I did. Q Now, one of the projects of ICOSI, in particular the Social Acceptability,Working Party, was to prepare a monograph or a paper on social cost/ social value; correct? A That's correct. Q And this paper went through a number of revisions and editing and had a number of chapters in the process from '79 throughout the years; correct? A I would assume it had, yes. Q And do you know a gentleman named George 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 Berman? 16 A Yes, I do. Q And Mr. Berman was hired as a consultant to the SAWP; is that correct? A That's correct. Q And his work included drafting the drafts of this social cost monograph or paper; correct? A That's also correct. Q And at various times from '79 on, you 21 22 23 24 25 read various drafts of this and at times made comments 124
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E • 4 • ~ 10 11 12 • 0 M 18 22 evidence that smoking causes premature death, you wouldn't want that to go out, would you? MR. COPENHAVER: Object to form. MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me, Counsel. I'm really going to object. You've got a hypothetical there which you acknowledge. And it's not a complete hypothetical at that. And now you're arguing with the witness. BY MR. WITHEY: 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 23 24 25 Q You can answer. A I find it difficult to figure out how to answer because there are assumptions -- if I answer the question the way you stated it, there's an implied assumption to my agreement of some foundation, and that's not necessarily correct. Q You don't have to agree with the foundation. You just have to agree with the logic if you can believe the logic to be fair. The logic being if the evidence, overwhelming consensus, is smoking causes premature death, would you in any way, shape, or form want to put out a paper or help approve a paper about the social cost, this social cost paper, that said the opposite of what the scientific community believed was consensus? A There are possible circumstances where 0 1 135
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out a position toward these topics, wouldn't it be helpful to know what the scientific data showed on premature death on smoke as a cause of excess medical expenses? MR. SIEGLER: I'm going to object to that. Argumentative. MR. HOWARD: Also speculation. THE WITNESS: It may indeed be so. That * 10 11 • 0 12 13 14 15 16 17 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 0 24 25 certainly would not have been an area that I would cn rl0 have any specific expertise in. ~ 4! BY MR. WITHEY: ry cn Q I'm not asking if you have expertise in it. I'm asking whether you, as someone who is part of the ICOSI and SAWP process, and particularly one who's reviewing George Berman's paper on social costs, would want to say, well, maybe we ought to collect the data on premature death statistics on smoking as a cost of excess medical expenses so we'll know what the data is in order to help formulate our opinions or positions toward it. MR. SIEGLER: I'm sorry. Was that a question? MR. WITHEY: Yeah, it is. Q Isn't that something that would make sense? In fact, something you suggest here. A If you're saying that we should be aware 131
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• ~ 10 11 12 • 6 13 14 15 16 17 Ah 18 19 20 21 22 0 23 24 25 the social cost of smoking called "Myth or Reality." That's what this is discussing; correct? The same paper we've been talking about before? A I don't know if this is the same paper we've been talking about previously, referring to a monograph. Q Paper, monograph, manual -- it's referred to in various ways. Let me just address your attention to the third paragraph. The third paragraph under "Current Activity" states that, "The American Enterprise Institute has expressed strong interest in publishing a monograph on 'Cost-Benefit Analysis of Consumer Products.'" Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Would you agree that that's probably the same American Enterprise Institute that you referred to in the previous exhibit? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: No foundation. MR. HOWARD: It doesn't refer to that. It refers to American Economic Institute. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you believe it's the same organization even if the name may be different in each of these texts? 139
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• * 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 r 1s 19 20 • 6 21 22 23 24 25 one might not necessarily agree with the evidence as presented, even though you just characterized it as overwhelming. It may be the only -- you know, if there's only one paper that's written about a topic, then that will be the overwhelming evidence, but it doesn't necessarily mean one has to accept it. Q Let's say there's a thousand papers that you've looked at. If you look at the data and a thousand papers say smoking causes premature death and there's not a single paper that says smoking doesn't cause premature death, would you want to have a social cost monograph that was published by whoever ICOSI got to publish it, that said there's no evidence that smoking increases -- or that smoking causes premature death? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'm saying your frame of mind, Mr. Marcotullio -- MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. Counsel, I really don't want to interrupt your deposition -- MR. WITHEY: Just make an objection. MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. MR. WITHEY: First of all, I know you represent the witness. cn 0 1 136
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• 0 0 ~ 8 9 ~ 10 12 0 a 18 22 MR. HOWARD: Objection. Incomplete hypothetical. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'll try again. And the reason -- you just answered the question yes, it makes some sense to look at the data. And I'm asking you a follow-up question. The follow-up question is and the reason it might make some sense, as you suggest, to maybe look at this data on premature death statistics or excess medical costs would be to make sure that the position that was published in this monograph that's being discussed would be accurate as it pertains to what the data shows. It wouldn't be something that would be contrary to the data on these topics. MR. COPENHAVER: Objection to form. MR. HOWARD: Objection. THE WITNESS: I'm really struggling with the question. BY MR. WITHEY: 11 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 Q The reason you want to look at data is so you don't put out the wrong position; correct? Wouldn't that be the reason for looking at the data? A Sure. It would be part of analyzing the 23 24 25 0 1 133
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s • • • « 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 6 0 21 22 23 24 25 antismoking groups, yes. Q And I assume you had the opportunity to look at this one page; correct? A I read it through very quickly, scanned it. Q I just have a couple questions. Do you agree that -- well, did you come away from these discussions about the antismoking organizations believing that the materials put out by these organizations had very little ideological content as reflected in this document? Was that a characterization you would accept? A I think this is saying just the opposite, that there was not ideological component. Q Look at -- maybe you didn't get a chance. Look at the next to last paragraph. A What this seems to be saying is that, in whatever antismoking materials are referenced here, there wasn't very much ideological content but that others who presumably have knowledge are saying that they are very much ideological in nature. Q Did you yourself draw any judgment about the antismoking organizations? A I don't recall specifically. I don't think I know enough about the antismoking 0 1 144
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0 1 a 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ` 18 19 20 0 6 21 22 23 24 25 difficult to answer a hypothetical question, and I accept your explanation. Let's go on to No. 12. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 12 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: w V f4 W ~.. Q This is a -- Exhibit 12 is a progress ~0 report dated March 17th, 1980 regarding social costs/ social values, bearing the Bates No. 50209 1498. I believe it's a document obtained from R.J.R. Box 3434. What I want to do is ask you -- first of all, why don't you go ahead and review this document to see if it's a document that refreshes your recollection, either that you saw the document or that there is under Chapter 3 in this document, which is what I'11 ask you about, some items that you recall from reading it. Look at Roman numeral 3, Chapter 3. MR. COPENHAVER: What number -- is this 12? MR. WITHEY: Yes. THE WITNESS: Did you want me to just focus on Chapter 3? BY MR. WITHEY: Q There's a couple questions. I could probably direct you better than just reading the stuff I probably won't ask you about. Let's just start with Chapter 1 on the second page. This is again this paper, monograph, on 0 1 138
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0 0 • ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 9 environment. Q So, in other words, if the consensus of the scientific community was smoking causes premature deaths, you wouldn't want to have a paper on social costs that says smoking, there's no evidence that smoking causes premature death, would you? MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. That's incomplete hypothetical. No foundation. MR. WITHEY: That's an example. MR. SIEGLER: It's a hypothetical. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. MR. HOWARD: I object as well. (Record read.) THE WITNESS: I think the way in which you form that is total contrast and total denial of black and white again, when in fact there may be other appropriate comments that could be made on the data. BY MR. WITHEY: Q No. I'm asking you to assume hypothetically, although it happens to be reality, that the consensus of the scientific community is smoking causes premature death. If you had looked at the data and that's what you believe the data to show, and then you saw this monograph that says there's no 134
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• • a ~ 10 11 12 i • 17 ip 18 19 20 4 4 some data that would indicate that smokers die earlier than nonsmokers. What that significance is, I don't know, but I haven't reviewed any such data or seen studies on that. Q Now, the third area is, again, an area that you could look at the data on, provided you're careful to avoid troubled water, smoking as a cost of excess medical expense. Do you see that there? A Yes, I do. Q Did you look up the data on smoking as a cost of excess medical expense, you or ICOSI or SAWP7 A I don't recall myself looking it up, and I'm not even sure what data would be there. Q So you -- I take it then that even though you talk about there are three areas you could look up the data, at least as to two and three, you don't recall ever looking up the data. Is that a fair statement? A I do not recall that specifically. A lot of what's represented here appears to be capturing discussions about brainstorming ideas, some things that may or may not have come to fruition. I don't know. 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 Q Well, before either the tobacco companies 24 25 or the MNA's or the tobacco industry was going to put 0 1 130
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• • • • 8 9 i 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 17 a is 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 American Enterprise Institute ever publish anything by way of a social costs or cost-benefit analysis as indicated in this document? A I don't recall them specifically doing that, no. Q All right. Let's go on to Chapter 3. This "Character of Antismoking Organizations" was going to be kind of chapter in this manual or monograph; correct? A Yes, that's correct. Q Who is Aaron Wildavsky? A I recognize the name. I'm not sure whether he's a social scientist or what his actual expertise is. Q He worked at Berkeley; correct? A I don't know. Q Have you ever met him? A I don't recall I have. Q You never had a conference in which he -- or meeting, in which he smoke about the political culture of antismoking groups or a topic to that effect? A I could have been. I've been to conferences where there have been dozens, if not hundreds, of people. 0 1 142
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! 0 s 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 / • w 0 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A It bears a striking similarity. Q That's good enough for me. A This may be the reason why I didn't recognize American Economic Institute. I'm aware of the American Enterprise Institute. Q Do you think maybe it was a typographical error in the prior exhibit, sir? A Could very well have been. Q What is the American Enterprise Institute? Thank you for pointing that, Counsel. MR. HOWARD: You're welcome. THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I know it's a think tank that talks about social and economic issues that are in the public domain. BY MR. WITHEY: Q was it ever funded by any tobacco money? A Not that I'm aware of specifically, no. Q Would the publishing of the monograph, paper, manual, whatever you want to call it, on social costs be something that the American Enterprise Institute expressed an interest in? A I believe it probably did. As far as I know about them, they often comment on leading social issues. ~ 1 140
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• 0 0 0 r 10 • 11 12 • 13 14 15 ~ 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 4 21 22 23 0 24 25 Q Did the -- but this was the paper that George Berman was heading up drafting; correct? A I believe it is. Q Did you write any of the chapters or cn u7 J paragraphs? r~c•a A No, I wouldn't. Totally outside of my (J] area of expertise. Q So you're saying that the issue of social costs is totally outside your area of expertise. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Argumentative, Mischaracterizes his testimony. THE WITNESS: I worked on projects relating to social costs, but I never held myself out, nor would I now, as being an expert in that area. It's participating in a variety of meetings with a variety of topics that come up that either I know something or little about. BY MR. WITHEY: Q The first page refers to, under "Progress To Date," the description of manual chapters and "two consultants' reports have been distributed to SAWP and ICOSI." Did you recall who other than Mr. Berman was a consultant who may have written part of this manual? A No, I don't. Q Okay. To your knowledge, did the 0 1 141
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• Q I'm talking about where he spoke. • • • 8 9 • 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A He may have spoken also. I've gone to an awful lot of conferences. I don't recall meeting him specifically. Q Do you recall reading his chapter or draft or whatever you want to call it, report? A Not specifically, no. I couldn't recall any contents, whether I did or did not. Q Do you recall that this is something you wrote, sir? A Pardon me? Q Do you recall that this is something you wrote? A No. Q Okay. Do you recall the topic of the antismoking organizations being discussed in this manner, put it that way, that's contained within Chapter 3 of this document? A Would you mind repeating that? Q Do you recall the topic of the activities and ideology and the makeup and composition of the antismoking organizations being discussed at any meeting or conferences as reflected in this document? A I recall discussing -- being at meetings where there was discussion of the nature of the 0 1 143
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 that I was not coached by counsel; that I was going to, on my own initiative, raise the fact that I thought you were putting an overemphasis on my choice of words "a driving forces," and I wanted to clarify and provide a more thoughtful answer. Q Have you finished your clarification? A Yes, I have. Q Why don't we go on. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 13 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Have you look at Exhibit 13. This is a document that you've apparently authored related to an SAWP meeting in D.C., March 31st, April 1st, 1980 bearing the Bates No. 50213 8628. Did I correctly identify the document? A Yes, you have. Q You see this is a meeting that you attended in D.C.; correct? A That's correct. Q Now, it identifies Mary Covington as a chairman, and then it says Philip Morris. Do you see that? A Yes. Q And was Mary Covington a chair of the SAWP, ICOSI, or who? 0 ~ _ _ 153 1
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1 • • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 to give me -- MR. WITHEY: I'm not going to give you that courtesy. MR. SIEGLER: The record will reflect your repeated interruptions to my making a simple statement to you. MR. WITHEY: I don't want your coaching. MR. SIEGLER: I'm not coaching the witness. That is a complete mischaracterization. What you are attempting to do is to mislead the witness, and I object to that. I've been extremely patient with you in that process. MR. WITHEY: As if the witness can't make his own mind up whether I'm misleading him or not. Let's go ahead. THE WITNESS: May I make a comment? MR. WITHEY; No. We're -- THE WITNESS: I may not make a comment? MR. WITHEY: No. THE WITNESS: To clarify on my prior point? BY MR. WITHEY: cq H Q Not to clarify on a prior comment. If v N you are answering a question, that's fine. Go ahead. w ru Do you want to finish an answer? r~ A The only statement I was going to say was 0 1 152
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0 • • • r 10 11 12 • 0 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you recall that ever being discussed? A Which? Q The idea of collecting dossiers on leaders or individuals that are part of the antismoking organizations. A I don't recall it in the context of collecting dossiers, but certainly identifying who the antismoking organizations and the driving forces behind them are. Q What do you mean by identifying them? A Indicating, you know, the source of major criticisms of the tobacco industry. it's not different than any other industry does when they analyze their operating environment. You know, if people are criticizing them, they generally try to find out who's criticizing them. Q Who would have carried out that effort to 13 14 15 16 try to find out who was criticizing and get to identify the leadership of the organizations? MR. SIEGLER: Object. Mischaracterizes his testimony. That was not his testimony. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You used a word -- maybe I didn't characterize it correctly. The leading forces. is 21 22 23 24 25 0 1 146
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0 1 • 2 3 4 • 5 6 • 8 9 0 10 11 12 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 tobacco companies and consultants to the companies in the industries providing information that was collected and gathered. Q How? A I don't know just listing them. Q How was the information of who was the driving force collected? ' MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Speculation. No foundation. THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I don't recall any specific process as such. I know it was a topic of discussion but -- BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, to your knowledge, did anyone employed by the tobacco industry ever go to the meetings of antismoking organizations to identify who were the driving forces? A I think -- MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: Yeah, objection to form. BY MR. WITHEY: ~.. w cn Q You can answer. •J r41 A I think from time to time there were ro ro: people who were employees of tobacco companies that participated in conferences, just as I'm sure that 0 1 148
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• 1 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 goes on in any industry where people go to other organizations or meetings to collect information on topics that are relevant to their business. Q Okay. So you think probably some employees of some of the tobacco companies went to meetings of the antismoking organizations; correct? A I'm somewhat speculating because I don't have specific information of specific individuals whether or not they did. or Q And wouldn't it be fair to assume, in order to know who's a driving force within the organization, that there must be some observation, some collection of information about the various individuals or leaders within the organization? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation, mischaracterizes testimony. You're making -- BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer the question. MR. SIEGLER: -- confusing the entities and the people. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A What -- maybe this will clarify it or respond to you. What I meant by "driving forces" is basically what are the organizations and what are 1 149 0
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• • • • 9 ~ 10 11 12 • • 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 MR. SIEGLER: Are you done? MR. WITHEY: Yes. MR. SIEGLER: Now, I would like to speak. I 1 2 3 4 listened carefully to you and have been fair to you for this entire deposition. You have done a number of things consistently, including asking this witness about documents that he never authored, he never saw, and -- 5 6 7 8 MR. WITHEY: That's totally appropriate. And if anybody want's to raise it with the judge, that's fine. I'm not going to allow you to give a speech. I'm going to ask my question or we're going to reconvene this to another time. I'm not going to conduct this deposition where the witness is being coached. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. If you agree to stop from doing it, I'll continue. if you don't, we'll reconvene this at another time after we get a ruling from Judge Gwin. Your choice. Are we going to go forward? MR. SIEGLER: Let me just -- if you're done speaking -- MR. WITHEY: -- hear any more speeches. MR. SIEGLER: Counsel, you're the one giving speeches. I'm entitled to speak. If you don't want 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 12 • • 17 • 18 19 20 • • A I believe she was the chair of the SAWP. Yes, because she was still identified as Philip Morris. So she couldn't have been head of ICOSI as being a employee of the company. Q Excuse me. I'm sorry. George Berman is identified as Devon Management Resources, Incorporated. Was that Berman's company? A That's correct. Q Now, the first agenda item starts off with a briefing the members on separation of Julian Doyle from ICOSI. Do you see that? A Yes. Q Do you know the circumstances of his, 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 what are called, separation from ICOSI, sir? A Specific circumstances, no. But I just know that for one reason or another, neither he nor ICOSI were of a mind to continue the relationship, and he left the employ of ICOSI. Q All right. I ask you to turn to page 3. You see the social costs/social value topic? A I do. Q And it talks about Berman giving a progress report. I take it this is still again on this monograph, paper, manual, whatever you want to 0 1 154
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't have a clue. Q Did Marshall Thompson take over that project? A I don't know. I don't even -- other than seeing his name here, I have no specific recollection of who Marshall Thompson is. Q Did you ever recall seeing any of the publications, leaflets, pamphlets of antismoking organizations that were collected within a volume either by Professor Wildavsky or anybody else? A I don't specifically recall that, no. Q Would that be something that you would expect to be collected on the antismoking organizations, their publications? A I think if they publish them, certainly that would have been a reasonable thing to collect. I just don't recall them specifically, if there were any. Q Did you ever see any profiles on the leadership of any of the antismoking organizations? By profiles, I mean their name, their address, their background, where they may have gone to school? A I don't recall that at all. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 14 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: 156 0
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 their platforms that are espousing views critical of the tobacco industry. MR. WITHEY: Do you see how you just coached the witness, Counsel? MR. SIEGLER: I'm not coaching the witness. MR. WITHEY: You are. MR. SIEGLER: I am not. MR. WITHEY: You are coaching the witness. When you say you're confusing driving forces with individual organizations, you're consciously attempting to coach the witness. And we're not going to allow you to interfere with this case. You are representing a witness, not a party. Any attempt to further coach, and I'll go to the judge with this. You've suggested an answer to him, and it's totally inappropriate. And I assume if you're going to continue to do this, you'll know you're violating the rules of this court in that context with this deposition taking place. MR. SIEGLER: Are you done? MR. WITHEY: We will not continue this that deposition in this environment if you continue to do things other than say objection and state the grounds of the objection. Could we agree with that? • 1 150 1
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 Q Now, I want you to look on page 2 related to antismoking organizations. This is a document dated June 8th, 1981. The prior documen t was dated April 1st, 1980. And just to recall, th e prior document talked about Wildavsky's paper, but also that he was backing out of the project. I don't know paper, but his work. Okay. But on Exhibit 14 on page 2, it indicates that "GB" -- who I -- well, let me -- G. B. is probably George Berman, is it not? A I think presum ably it is Gorge Berman. Q -- "will complete and circulate among the Group a summary of material developed for Chapter 3." Do you see that? A Yes Q You , I do. would believe Chapter 3 deals with antismoking organizations; correct? A I don't know. There's be en so many iterations of monographs or p apers or whatever, I'm not sure which chapter we're talking about. Q I think -- and I may be corrected by sharp-eyed counsel here, that Chapter 3 in a previous tn document, I think it was 12, refers to a ntismoking. I A Antismoking organizations. Q Is that correct? 159 I
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • • • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Chapter 3. Q Which document is that, if you can -- exhibit? A No. 12. Q Thank you. A You're welcome. Q What was the summary of materials that Mr. Berman developed as to the antismoking organizations? A I don't recall. Q It states that "Wildavsky paper should not be given to the Verband and RM will notify Bob Ely of this decision." Who is the Verband in that? A Verband is the German National Corporations organization. Q RM is who? A Presumably me. Q And did you notify Bob Ely of the decision not to give Verband the Wildavsky papers? A I don't recall if I did or did not. Q Can you think of why the Wildavsky papers should not go to Verband? A No, because I can't recall what was in the Wildavsky papers. Q In essence, it dealt with antismoking 0 1 160
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• • • • 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 12 « 13 14 15 0 N 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 24 25 organizations. Fair enough? At least that title of the chapter? A Presumably, yes. is the Q Was the work done on the antismoking organizations a work on smoking organizations internationally? A I don't recall. Q Was there a concern about sharing sensitive information about driving forces or the character or ideology of organizations with the Verband? MR. HOWARD: Objection. No foundation. THE WITNESS: I don't recall if there were. And if there were, who those might have been, I just don't recall. BY MR. WITHEY: Q As you sit here today, can you think of any reasons that there would be concern about sharing with the Verband the kind of information -- strike that. As you sit here today -- I'll withdraw the question. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 15 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Let's go to the next one. Exhibit 15 is 161
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f 0 0 • 0 10 11 12 0 0 0 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a document dated 12 May 1983 bearing -- having your name on it. A It's separate. I'm not sure that we -- Q Yeah. That's one document. It should have been stapled, sir. It's a document with the Bates No. 50223 4928. It's called the Project Progress Report, the name of the project being social costs/social values, and the team members show project leader Richard Marcotullio of R.J. Reynolds. Did I identify that document correctly, sir? A Yes, you did. Q Now, do you think you wrote this? Or do you think somebody else wrote it, if you can recall? A This doesn't look like a format of any kind of memos or reports that I've ever done. Q Let's see if you can recall the subject matter of this report. Okay? Again, short-term objectives are listed 1 through 6; right? Is that right: Short-term objectives, 1 through 6? A Did you want me to read these? Q No. I'll ask you about them. I just want you to verify six in the list. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. The document speaks for itself. 0 1 162
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• • • 0 9 • 10 11 12 • • 17 • 18 19 20 • • call it; is that correct? A It would appear to be, yes. Q Now, let me ask you, the third paragraph down started "The question." A Yes. Q It says, "The question of internalizing in general the activities concerning social costs" -- A I'm sorry. That says internationalizing. Q internationalization. A Internationalizing. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A I see that. " ~ that? 1. ti ro Wildavsky is backing out of the project. Do you see 0 [n Q What does that mean, internationalizing? How do you mean that? A Let me just read the rest of that. I believe that was a reference to not having the issue of social costs be identified with just one particular country. Q Okay. And then the bottom of the page, Chapter 3, talks about the character of antismoking organizations. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q And it talks about how Professor 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 Q Why did he back up? • I 155
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• • • • ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 A I know they had done some work commissioned by the -- by one the entities. I'm not sure. Q One of the tobacco companies that were members, you mean? A I don't recall whether it was one of the tobacco companies or whether or not they did any work at the behest of ICOSi. But I know they had done some prior work on topics of interest. Q Do you recall what topics of interest they worked on? A I think generally in the area of social values/social issues. I think Dr. Tollison and Dr. Wagner, I think, are both social scientists if I'm not mistaken. Q Isn't Dr. Wagner an economist? I think that is a social scientists. A Yeah, I guess so. Q No need to quibble. Do you know what monograph that they were going to publish on these economic issues for this organization? A I know that there was some discussion which I think preceded my time with either the company or the industry, about something relating generally to social costs. 158
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i ` r r e 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q It doesn't gentlemen. to pay for A would have ICOSI. Q would have There is a budget/expenditures on page 3. list exactly how much was paid to these But where would the money have come from this consulting work by these professors? Any moneys expended for any projects come from, I think, the membership of It would have been a budget item that been approved by whatever the approving body was, executive committee within ICOSI. A Q That's correct. And you had to submit -- or excuse me, the ICOSI operated off of budgets that by the governing body. Fair enough? A Q That's correct also. were approved So if there was money going to these individuals, it would have been part of a budget, whether they listed by individual or by topic. Fair enough? A yes. Q It would have been identified in budgets, Now, the last two pages of this exhibit are handwritten notes. And I just wondered if you -- this is your handwriting on either page. Looks like they're two different people. 165 ua
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• 0 ~ 10 11 12 0 A 0 A I vaguely recognize the name. I don't know who he is. Don't recall who it is. Q Durden states to you that "However, our colleagues in other businesses are making it 'private business' policy practices to discourage smoking even where there are no public policy proscriptions." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Was that something that was considered a concern to you at the time that there's a private business practice of discouraging smoking? A To me personally or to me -- Q To you in your work for ICOSI, or INFOTAB I guess it was at that time. A In ICOSI, no, I don't believe this was in the context -- even though it's in this document, I don't believe that was really in the context of any ICOSI work. Q All right. So it was in the context, however, of this monograph; correct? A I don't recall. As I'm reading this, it seems more unlikely that it may have been a concern about the development of public smoking restrictions in the U.S. Q Wasn't public smoking restrictions in the 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 168 6
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• 1 a 2 3 4 0 5 6 7 8 9 ` 10 11 12 13 w 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 21 22 23 24 25 A Clearly the first one couldn't be mine because it's legible. Q Okay. How about the second one? A And the second one is not mine either. Q It's got your name on it, but it's not yours then; is that right? A No. I never cross my L's. Q Do you know of an individual named Weiss, W-e-i-s-s? A I may have heard the name before. It's a common name. I don't remember it specifically in this context. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 16 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q All right. The Exhibit 16, is that the one you have? A 16, yes. Q This is a two-page document bearing Dennis Durden's signature addressed to you, an R.J.R. Interoffice memo, "Comment on Your INFOTAB 'social costs' Monograph," dated November 13th, 1984. Did I correctly identify the document? It bears the Bates No. 50365 3584. A Yes, you do. Q I assume you received it at that time; ~ ~ 166
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! 0 • i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 M 0 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 to 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. WITHEY: Q "Monograph on smoking in society," is this again the same -- do you believe this to be the same paper we've been talking about -- monograph, manual, paper? Or were there numerous papers written? A I recall a reference to a monograph as being something under special at the time. Q Was an editor selected? A I believe -- I'm trying to think now. I believe there was an editor selected for this project. Q Who was it? A I think that was Professor Tollison. Q And do you recall where Professor Tollison worked at this time? A I think it's George Mason University, I believe. Q Do you recall where Professor Wagner worked? A No, I don't. Q All right. At any rate, the second objective listed there was the Tollison/Wagner summary. Do you recall what that dealt with? A Not specifically, no, I don't. Q How about the Feinhandler publication? Do you know what that dealt with?
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! t a . 0 ~ 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 A 16 17 0 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 0 24 25 he was teaching? where he worked? A I don't know specifically, no. I don't recall. Q Any rate, Mr. Durden tells you that "Today's more crucial conferences of antismokers are those sponsored by business coalitions all over the country. Attendees can't be characterized as zealots or anti-free enterprises or ivory-tower theorists." Did you see that? A Yes, I did. Q Did you agree with that assessment? A I don't recall what, my observation at that time would have been. Q At least that seemed to be Durden's opinion; correct? A Certainly. Q Did that cause any change in the strategies or work in progress, at that time INFOTAB, the characterization of the antismoking movement as more involving business interests and business coalitions? A I don't recall of there being any specific change in direction other than I don't really think that the -- this antismoking organization's focus really went on for any particular period of 4 1 170
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• 6 i 0 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 0 r 16 17 18 19 20 40 21 22 23 0 24 25 A I believe Feinhandler was one who made observations about how smoking fit into society and how people used smoking to pass time or to fill voids or become more comfortable in social settings. I think he did social observations on people as they were smoking and how smoking helped them pass the time, basically. Q Fair enough. Now, the second page then describes -- I'm not going to go through all the objectives, but the second.page describes the progress to date, including Dr. Tollison's work or Professor Wagner's work and the Freelander (sic) publication. Do you see that there? Progress to date? A Yes, I do. Q Now, I assume that Tollison and Wagner and Freelander (sic) were paid for their work in this regard; correct? A Well, I'm not sure what Wagner and Freedlander -- where is Freedlander? Q Freedlander's in No. 3. A Or Feinhandler. You're referring to Feinhandler. Q Feinhandler. Sorry. A Presumably they would have been paid for any work done. 164 0
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0 • • 8 9 Ah 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 19 A 24 25 correct? A That would be a presumption, although I don't recall this specifically. Q Now, this apparently again deals with the social costs monograph; correct? A Yes, it does. Q And by that time had this monograph been put in a form in which it had chapters and authors and was almost ready to be published? Please feel free to review the -- A Yeah, I would have to because I don't recall that specifically. But let me just -- Q Let me just direct your attention to the fourth paragraph. "In view of these strategic shifts of recent years, you may want to rethink or supplement Chapters 6, 7, and 8 of the monograph." A That would lead me to believe that it was still not in a completed form and perhaps still in an outline form. Q I see. A But I'm just drawing that conclusion from the words on the paper here. Q There is a statement that it was Mr. Durden brought to your attention Den V-y-l. Who is that? This is the fifth paragraph. 167 w rc~ N w
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0 9 • 0 ` 10 11 12 • 0 0 4 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Was there legal screening of documents that were generated by the SAWP or ICOSI or some of the other committees within ICOSI? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: Could you be more clear on "legal screening"? BY MR. WITHEY: Q Well, before things are finalized or sent out, they'd be passed by a lawyer. MR. SIEGLER: I do have to caution the witness not to reveal communications which would be privileged with regard to the company's counsel. BY MR. WITHEY: Q I'm talking about ICOSI, SAWP, not Reynolds. A I don't recall whether ICOSI had legal counsel per se. There was often attendance by attorneys on behalf of one or more of the companies, but I don't think they were there in the capacity of ICOSI counsel. Q How about -- okay. How about Don Hoel from Shook, Hardy & Bacon? Did he kind of play a role as legal adviser to at least the secretariat, executive secretary of ICOSI or not? A I believe Don Hoel was legal counsel for 0 1 174
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9 6 i ~ 10 11 12 13 A 17 r 18 19 20 0 0 0 time. Q Well, it started back in '79. A No. I'm talking about from this point forward. Q '84 forward? A I don't recall that being a significant discussion point or project. MR. WITHEY: Why don't we take a break and see how much more I got. (Recess.) (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 17 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Showing you what has been marked as Exhibit 17, this is an April 10th, 1984 memo from yourself to a number of people, re INFOTAB courtesy campaign, bearing the Bates No. 50663 5600. Did I identify that document correctly? A That's correct. Q What is a courtesy campaign? What was 14 15 16 it? A Let me just scan this very quickly. Q Sure. A I believe what this was was a suggestion that with the tax on smokers on the part of nonsmokers or those who didn't want to be around smokers, that it 171 21 22 23 24 25
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0 # 0 ~ 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 16 17 0 18 0 0 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would be helpful to remind smokers that some people don't want to be around smoking; so therefore, being courteous in the way you smoke would be a good socially acceptable thing to do. And I think it would also allow the industry or the companies to indicate that they also were aware of good social conventions and not impinging upon those people who didn't want smoking around them. Q Was this courtesy campaign effectuated? A I believe that some of the national tobacco associations adopted some form of courtesy campaigns. I don't believe it was an ongoing INFOTAB. I think the idea just came up for discussion within INFOTAB, and that was offered for those who thought it was appropriate to follow up. ` Q How was it effectuated? A I'm sorry? Q Effectuated, this courtesy campaign? A I don't know specifically if things arose from INFOTAB activities, but I know that the U.S. industry or companies individually pursued some smoking courtesy campaigns or activities. Q It refers to the fact, your memo does, "that the concept and some of the executions should be 172
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• * • 0 14 15 16 17 0 18 0 19 24 25 U.S. a topic of concern -- well, is this R.J.R. International or R.J.R. in this document? A This is the parent company of both. This is R.J. Reynolds. Q Would those kind of restrictions be something that R.J. Reynolds, either the parent company or the tobacco company, U.S.A., was concerned about? A Yes. The increasing limitations on where smokers were allowed to smoke, yes, it was a concern. Q And did those companies oppose those restrictions generally? A I think generally, yes. But if it was opposed, this would have been from my sister company Reynolds at the time. I wasn't involved in any activities in the U.S. domestic market. Q Let's look at page 2 then, referring to Chapter 8. Berger -- now, who is "Berger will do a superb job with the 1983 Conference"? A Berger is -- again, I'll call him a social scientists, for a lack of a better word. A sociologist, I believe. Q Is it Peter Berger? A I believe it is Peter Berger. Q Do you know where he was officed or where 0 1 169
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• • a • 10 0 11 12 « 13 14 15 i 16 17 18 0 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 I don't think I saw my initials there. It's not my secretary because that was not her initials. So this was prepared by Mr. Tucker's -- or typed by Mr. Tucker's secretary and drafted, written by him. Q Did he probably -- the two of you probably talk about it before sending something like this on to Mr. Horrigan? A I would assume that we did. Q Let me go back up to -- again, still on page 3, on paragraph 4-- in other words, No. 4. A Yeah. Q The third sentence reads, "Various working parties produce documents and papers for which legal screening would appear appropriate. The Information System" -- capital I, capital S -- "will show and disseminate a great deal of information and a clear system of legal screening does not appear to be in place." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q What is the Information System that you're referring to there? A Well, again, with INFOTAB being an information-gathering organization, it had a number of different files relating to the development of issues 179
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• 0 A 0 0 a 17 • 18 22 6 panel-tested to get initial reactions." What is panel testing? A I don't see that as being anything more than like a focus group to see whether or not the courtesy -- the positioning of courtesy is the way that it would convey the meaning intended. Q Was it panel tested? A I don't know. I don't recall. Q Have you ever participated in panel testing? A Not to my knowledge, no. Q Have you ever seen the results of panel testing? A Not to my knowledge. Q What's the whole idea in this context of focus group or panel testing? A Again, I think it's the same as it is 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 with any'other concept. You, rather than developing something in a vacuum, you test it out on others who would observe and see whether or not they think it's a good way of positioning. It's a common practice. Q Your memo indicates that the tests would be done in the U.K. and be completed in two months. Do you recall it being completed? A No, I don't recall. 19 20 21 23 24 25 173
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• • M 0 0 10 9 0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 1) 21 22 23 24 25 Philip Morris. Q Okay. So he wouldn't have been representing ICOSI, I take it. Fair enough? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. THE WITNESS: I don't think ICOSI was his client. Let's put it that way. I don't think ICOSI paid any retainer to Don Hoel as far as I recall. BY MR. WITHEY: Q And back to -- my original question, though, was whether there was times in which -- well, was the topic of potential product liability lawsuits in the United States discussed, not in the context of a particular case, but in the context of we may have to pass these documents by legal counsel before they could be distributed because of concerns about them getting -- A I know that some of the U.S. participants were concerned because working in an international environment where state of law is different from one form to another, that they wanted to make certain that their clients were properly represented or protected. Q Well, was that issue ever resolved about how legal screening of documents would be accomplished if it was suggested at ICOSI or INFOTAB meetings? MR. COPENHAVER: Objection to the form. No 0 1 175
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0 • • ~ 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 # 18 0 19 24 25 foundation. THE WITNESS: My recollection was that any review of documents was again done on behalf of individual companies. And if those companies then wanted to make an observation or a comment within the context of ICOSI, then they of course would do so. BY MR. WITHEY: Q What about initial drafts of minutes of meetings or papers? Would they be screened by legal counsel prior to dissemination to the members of particular meetings, someone operating on behalf of ICOSI? MR. SIEGLER: I'm going to interpose an objection and caution the witness not to reveal attorney-client communications between R.J.R. International and its counsel, whether that be in-house counsel or outside retained counsel. BY MR. WITHEY: Q With that instruction, could you state -- A I don't recall there being a specific legal screening process on behalf of ICOSI or INFOTAB. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 18 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Let me try to refresh your recollection. On September 11th, 1981 -- there's a document n 0 1 176
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0 • • • , 10 11 12 0 • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 4 21 22 23 24 25 identified as Exhibit 18 drafted by yourself to Mr. Horrigan relating to an INFOTAB September 18th, '81 meeting with Mary Covington, Bates 50209 2729. Is this a document you wrote, sir, with Mr. Tucker? A It would appear to be, yes. Q Let me just direct your attention to -- this memo at least in the first paragraph indicates it's a memorandum related to the major issues that might arise in a meeting that was upcoming with Mary Covington who has been identified as the -- well, employed by Philip Morris International but also one of the leaders of ICOSI. is that what this memo -- A I'm sorry. I was glancing -- would you mind? I was glancing at the paragraph. Q The memo said it was -- what it was -- let me direct your attention to issue No. 4, the last page, the issue related to "Whether next to appropriate legal advice on smoking and health issues is being given to the Secretariat and for all INFOTAB activities." What I want to do is focus on the comment below that where it states in the last sentence, "Information and documents emanating from the 0 1 177
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0 0 6 • 0 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 0 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 0 24 25 relevant to the industry. And how those were specifically denominated, I don't recall. But that was precisely that. It was a resource that the industry and the member companies could draw on, an information resource. ~. Q Where was it located? ~ ~ A In '81 it probably was in the U.K. At n? W rO r one time it moved its headquarters from the U.K. to Brussels as a result of convenience -- who was person of executive director, but probably would have been either the U.K. or Brussels. Q Did the Reynolds family of corporations send materials to this Information System? A The only thing that I recall that Reynolds specifically would have shared with them would have been things that Reynolds might have prepared on courtesy campaigns and those types of things that were done under the name of R.J. Reynolds, the domestic tobacco company, and shared as a resource to be made available to others who might consider doing the same thing. That type of thing. Q What about the minutes of the ICOSI or SAWP meetings or the secretariat or the board of directors? Where would they be kept? A Presumably they would be kept wherever 0 1 180
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• • • • • • 0 10 11 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 Secretariat itself should be screened prior to being put into circulation." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q And was that your and Mr. Tucker's recommendation to Mr. Horrigan at the time that that be discussed with Mary Covington and would be encouraged? A The document would have to speak for itself. I don't recall the specifics of it. Q Well, at least that's the way I read the document. Is that a reasonable reading, that at least you and Mr. Tucker felt that information in documents emanating from the secretariat should be screened prior to release? A I think I would choose the word "reviewed" rather than "screened." Q Okay. Other than that -- well, you use the word "screened" in the document; correct? A Well, there's -- I'm just curious. I'm looking at this. I believe my secretary typed this because it has my initials down there, but I don't think I would have said "Rich and I,° Rich being me. So presumably it's a document authored by Mr. Tucker. Q How do you know it's your secretary? A I take it back. It's not my secretary. 178 cn ~
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• • • • • 0 0 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 Q Where is that located? A That's located just on the outskirts of London itself. So sort of halfway between London and Heathrow Airport. Q And what is located -- well, were you there at the time you were living in London? A Yes, I was. Q And how big is that office? Or was that office? A It was rented facilities on two stories of a small office building. I think it was a three-story building, and there were probably a dozen offices and one or two conference rooms. Q Okay. So there was an area for storing documents there at the time. A I'm sure they had their file room. Q How big was that area? A I don't know specifically. Q Who was in charge of maintaining that storage of those documents? A I don't know who the clerical person was. It would have been the person who was the administrator of the organization at the time. Q Was there ever created -- back to this document, Exhibit 18 -- ever created a system what you 184
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0 • ~ • A 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 0 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 I recall that. Q Let's talk about London then if you're more familiar with London. You think you've been in Brussels at the location, but you don't have a ui u7 specific recollection of it; is that correct? J A Yeah. Because I worked with other ro a .~ ~ associations before joining the tobacco industry that also had offices in Brussels, and I was there like every six weeks. I may be confusing the two. But I'm pretty sure. Q You l ived in London for about two years; correct? A Almos t three years. That's correc t. Q Where A I was were you officed? officed in St. James near Gr een Park. Q And w A That hat was at that office? was the executive headquarter s of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International. Q Was there at any time in London an ICOSI office for the secretariat or executive secretary? At any time. A Yes, there was. Q Have you ever visited that location? A Yes, I have. 1 183
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1 0 • 2 3 8 9 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 • 0 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 0 more and more into the information gathering and sharing role rather than what might have appeared to be the more active role of ICOSI. Q Who replaced Mary Covington? A I believe Mary Covington was replaced by a gentleman by the name of Brian Simpson. Q Who did he work for? A Brian Simpson had been an executive with the Tobacco Institute of Australia. And then I believe he expressed interest in the position that was going to be made available by Mary Covington leaving her position. Q This document Exhibit 19 seems to indicate some issues related to budget, No. 6. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q It indicated that R.J.R.'s 1982 contribution -- I assume it's to INFOTAB -- was over $440,000; correct? A That's what it states, yes. Q Was that R.J.R. International's or R.J.R. Nabisco or R.J.R. Tobacco, U.S.A. or all three? A I think it would have been on behalf of R.J.R. International and R.J.R. domestic. Q Do you know how much each gave? 188
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• • 6 • ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ` 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 the secretariat was, you know, whether it was London or whether it was in Brussels. Q So it moved from place to place from time to time then? A It wasn't a moving, you know, on-wheels location. It was -- basically the only reason why it did move one or two occasions was really to accommodate the person who was the executive director at the time. Q Well, was Mary Covington ever the head of ICOSI? A Yes, she was. Q And where was she located when she was the head of ICOSI? A I think she was in Brussels. Q So I take it if she was the head of ICOSI and she was located in Brussels, then the Information System would have been with her or in that office at least. A Generally I think that's correct. I'm not sure of the movings back and forth, what year. Q No. I mean, but whenever she was the head of ICOSI, what I'm asking, whenever that was, the office or headquarter of ICOSI would have been there with her in Brussels; correct? 0 1 181
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• • 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 • 15 16 17 19L 18 19 20 0 21 22 23 24 25 call a clear system of legal screening of the Information System of ICOSI? Or INFOTAB? A To my recollection, legal review of documents was still provided primarily on behalf of individual company, even though that may have given some satisfaction to the secretariat that the documents were reviewed. And I think that's the an reason why the first line under the underlined section in No. 4, Shook, Hardy & Bacon, legal adviser to the secretariat. I think that's just a recognition of what I said earlier. I think Mr. Hoe1 of Shook, Hardy & Bacon were counsel to Philip Morris even though people saw them there frequently and thought that they were legal advisers to the secretariat. Q I think the question was was a clear system of legal screening put in place for the Information System. Could you answer that one? A I don't recall a systematic rigid system of legal screening. Q Was there any system for legal screening that was put in place for the Information System stored at the secretariat? A I don't recall specifically. Q To your recollection, did Mr. Hoel ever 185
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• • 0 • 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 • 0 15 16 17 18 19 • 24 25 express his concerns about not having any legal screening system in place? A I don't recall him making specific comments. Q Did you recall at any meeting Mr. Hoel ever stating that the U.S. product liability position of the tobacco companies, including Philip Morris, had to be maintained and extended essentially beyond the U.S. to any documents that were kept in ICOSI or INFOTAB? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. THE WITNESS: I recall Mr. Hoel being there again as counsel of Philip Morris primarily to provide services to his client from a U.S. product liability perspective. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 19 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 19 for this deposition, is this a minutes essentially or major decision points of discussion of the INFOTAB board of directors meeting on October 5th and 6th, 1981 that you drafted and signed on November 2nd, 1981 bearing the Bates No. 50274 1861? MR. SIEGLER: I'll object. That does not 0 1 186
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0 0 0 • • • 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 What was the uneasy feeling on the part of several board members that you were referring to in this document? A I don't recall. It was 18, 19 years ago. I don't know what the basis for that was. It may simply be that there was not enough organization in how materials were being put together. Q We've had a few documents talking about the budget. Did the Tobacco Institute provide half the funding for the "social costs" monograph? A I don't recall. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 21 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 21 for this deposition, it's a document you authored to Mr. Tucker, copied to Mr. Durden and potentially somebody else -- I can't read it -- dated November 9th, 1984, bearing the Bates No. 50353 2883. Do you see that document there, sir? A Yes, I do. Q It says, "As you know, the Tobacco Institute is providing half of the funding for the project" -- the project I think referred to is the "social cost" monograph -- "and a copy of the attachment was recently sent to Bill Kloepfer," 0 193 J
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0 + • • 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 M 15 16 17 a 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A The office would be there, and the records would be where the office was. Q And have you ever been there to that location in Brussels? A Well, I've been wherever the ICOSI or INFOTAB offices were on a number of occasions for meetings. Q I'm asking about Brussels. A I'm just -- I just want to make sure I'm not mistaken on my recollection. I'm pretty sure it was Brussels. I know definitely there were locations in London. I'm pretty certain it was in Brussels. And if so, I certainly would have been there. I just moved around so much in my -- Q How big were the headquarters or offices? A Physically? Q Yeah, in Brussels. A They would have been maybe four or five offices and a conference room. Nothing huge. Q Did they have an area where there was documents then that were stored? A A filing room, sure. Q Have you ever been there? A I'm frankly having difficulty recalling the specifics of the Brussels location. London, yes, 0 1 182
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• 1 • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 w 10 11 12 A • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 21 0 22 23 24 25 appear to be the signature. THE WITNESS: I was going to say the same thing. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You appear to have drafted it? A It would be my draft. Q Is "gr" your secretary? A She was. She's deceased. Q Sorry to hear that. Is this the -- A "gr," Gay Ragsner (phonetic). Q It indicates that Mary Covington wanted to return to Philip Morris at the end of the year. Did she do so, at the end of 1981? A I believe she did. Q Was ICOSI and INFOTAB in existence at the same time? A Not to my knowledge, no. Q Did they have the same general organizational structure, the two organizations? A I think generally, yes. ICOSI sort of emerged into INFOTAB. They did not coexist at the same time. One was an earlier organization, and then it took on a different name. But I think the name of INFOTAB is somewhat reflective also that its role was emerging • 1 187
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• • • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 fib 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A No, I don't. Q Page 2, item 9 refers to a "White Paper on Primary Health Issues." A I see that. Q What does that mean to say the secretary general felt the need to deal with more than the question of causation; to deal with the concerns of reasonable government people? What does that mean, "reasonable government people"? A I'm not sure of the context of which that was said or what -- I'm just reporting what she had said. I'm not sure what she meant there. Q You also reported that Don Hoel indicated that he wanted to reserve the right to advise his clients on areas not acceptable to the U.S. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q "He stated the U.S. product liability position has to be maintained and extended beyond the U.S. (even where there is no local product liability threat)." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q What is the product liability position that had to be maintained? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. 0 1 189 I
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1 • Right? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Argumentative. MR. WITHEY: I'll withdraw the question. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 20 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Now -- I don't mean to throw that at you, 2 3 sir. A No problem. Q -- Exhibit 20 is a document you drafted, signed, dated April 16th, 1981 regarding social costs/ 8 9 10 social values project bearing the Bates No. 50213 11 12 • 13 14 15 • • 16 17 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 Q Now, it seems like according to this document, there was a reevaluation, reexamination within the SAWP going on at this time; correct? A That's what the document says, but as with any sort of ongoing project, there are a number of discussions about various things that change as you discuss them. You know, it's -- Q Now, did you -- it states, "Given past discussions within SAWP and the uneasy feeling on the part of several Board members about the whole project," that you felt it was advisable to prepare a "game plan," as you call it. 0 1 192 I 5882. Do you see that there? A Yes, I do.
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• • • • • • • 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 BY MR. WITHEY: Q To your understanding. A Well, that would have been presumably a matter between himself and his client Philip Morris and what their position was on smoking and health issues. Q Was it your understanding that there shouldn't be any admission that smoking causes diseases in order to maintain a product liability position? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mr. Hoel advised his client that it wouldn't be appropriate to make any statements that would be construed as admissions. BY MR. WITHEY: Q As I understand it -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- the concern was then if some, I guess either INPOTAB or some committee with INFOTAB or some consultant hired by INFOTAB, were to make a statement that smoking causes lung cancer or disease somewhere outside the U.S., that that would be a concern to Mr. Hoel on behalf of Philip Morris. MR. HOWARD: Objection. Calls for speculation. BY MR. WITHEY: 190 0
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• 0 • 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 is 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tobacco, U.S.A., I think generally the industry had a view that smoking was a matter of personal choice. Q Free choice; correct? A I think we're playing with semantics here -- free choice, personal choice. Q Someone came up with the name "Free to Smoke" here. Do you know who came up with that name? A No. Q "We have tentatively changed the working title to 'Free to Smoke.'" Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q "We" meaning who? A Obviously a group of people who were working on this project. Q So they used the word "free" in connection to smoking; right? A I believe you're putting a lot more emphasis on the words here than it really deserves. Really trying to look at something that would be reflective of the contents of the monograph. And as I recall, "Smoking in Society" really was a much more accurate title for it. Q Well, would one of the concerns be that this title might be seen as somewhat "sloganistic" or disingenuous, let's put it that way, where the medical 196 0
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 concerns about the "Free to Smoke" title on it as expressed in this memo, sir? A I think it was a reflection that there were probably some people who were cynically viewing that as sending a message that the industry was not trying to convey. Q Why would people feel that way? What about the title "Free to Smoke" might be viewed that way? A It was my experience that people view with a great deal of suspicion almost anything the tobacco industry did, and -- at.least some people did, and that this might be construed as an inducement to smoke. And I think we generally felt that "Smoking in Society" was a better reflection of the true nature of the monograph because it was a number of chapters dealing with issues that related to a whole bunch of issues, ranging from economics to social observations. Q Didn't Reynolds Nabisco or Reynolds Tobacco, U.S.A. have a position that whether you choose to smoke are not is a free choice that smokers have the right to make? A I recognize that in working for Reynolds 0 1 195
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• 0 0 • 0 0 0 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 K-1-o-e-p-f-e-r. Did I read that correctly? A Bill Kloepfer. Q He was with the Tobacco Institute; is that correct? A That's correct. Q What was his position, if you know? A I think he was the director of public relations. Q You've met him on numerous occasions; correct? A Yes, I have. Q Was the Tobacco Institute providing half the funding? Does this refresh your recollection? A Well, it appears that they did. Or at least that they were intending to. Whether they ultimately did or not, I just really don't remember. Q You note that change of title of the monograph from "Smoking in Society" to, quote, "Free to Smoke." Do you see that? A Yes. Q Was that the title that eventually was used for the monograph? A I don't believe so. I think it remained as "Smoking in Society." Q Did you kind of have a little bit of 194 0
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1 • 4 ~ 5 6 7 r • 12 ~ 13 14 15 • 0 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 $350,000 is allocated to that, various aspects of that seminar; correct? For 1980? A I can only go on what you and I both have as a document. Again, it wasn't our document. Q That's what it looks like; right? A That's what it looks like. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 23 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 Q Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 23 for this deposition, this is an April 6, 1983 document from yourself to Mr. Horrigan and Mr. Tucker regarding the INFOTAB board of directors meeting on April 12th, '83 in Brussels, bearing the Bates No. 50209 2123; correct? A That's correct. Q Now, this is kind of like minutes, isn't it? Highlights of a meeting, I guess, not really minutes. Highlights of a meeting? A This is a summary of material that would have been prepared for the board of directors. And it basically would have been my summarizing what was in there for the benefit of Mr. Horrigan and Mr. Tucker. Q Was this an action item that Mr. Horrigan had to approve, or was it just an informational memo? A This would let him know what topics would . I 199 ~
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9 0 0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 community believed that smoking was addictive, that contained a product, an ingredient called nicotine that addicted people, and people who are addicted have less free choice than other people? MR. SIEGLER: I'll object on the grounds it's compound and vague. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Was that a concern? A I don't recall that ever being a concern that it was connected with any concern about addiction. Q That thought, the idea it might be addictive, never crossed your mind in this context? A Certainly not my mind, no. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 22 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q There is a budget here that's marked as Exhibit 22, an SAWP budget. Unfortunately, I only seem to have been able to recover the first page. It looks like part 3. But any rate, it bears Dennis Durden's name, and it's Bates No. 2015049273. Did I identify that document correctly? A Yes, you did. Q Now, this looks like a budget for '79 and '80; correct? 197 0
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q Fair enough? A Do you want me to answer that question? Q Yes. A My recollection would be that even though -- and I think it's stated here the product liability legal situation varied from country to country. I think Mr. Hoel was probably being prudent on behalf of his client to make sure that even though they may not be subjected to a project liability action outside the States, he wanted to protect their interest in case that somehow eroded their position in the States. Q Right. Including protections of their position that some statement made that smoking causes cancer or some such statement, that he would be concerned about that statement appearing in INFOTAB or ICOSI documents or committees of that organization. Would that be a fair assumption? MR. HOWARD: Objection. Calls for speculation. MR. COPENHAVER: I'll object to foundation. THE WITNESS: I would also have to speculate that that's, you know, an area that would be of cn ~r, .,~ r0 potential concern to him on behalf of his client. n! ~ BY MR. WITHEY: tn Q Stands to reason; right? 0 1 191
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0 0 1 2 be discussed at the board meeting, and then any discussion taken would be taken at that board meeting. 0 0 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a 10 11 12 M (A 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And this document, I want -- this is on budget issue on paragraph 2.4. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q It says, "The binder" -- which I think may be the auditor's report, I'm not sure -- "contains a comparison between '81 and '82 budgets. The total '81 budget was 1.4 plus million versus 2.1 plus million in 1982"; correct? A That's what is stated in here, yes. Q That would be the budget for the INFOTAB organization or the board of directors or some part of it or what? in other words, what's that budget there? A I believe this is a reference to the entire year's budget for INFOTAB, and the reference to "binder" is the binder prepared for the board meeting. Q Okay. Now, it says that half a million dollars is attributable to staff additions and increases in salaries, social charges, and the like; correct? A That's what it states here, sir. Q So did INFOTAB then go through fairly significant growth then as a result of -- or as reflected in this budget? ~ 200 I J
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1 • 2 3 4 • • 9 • 10 11 12 • • 17 • 18 19 20 • • A That's what it appears to be, yes, sir. Q This would just be -- as I understand it, this is just the SAWP budget, not the total ICOSI budget; is that correct? A That would also appear to be correct, 5 yes. 6 0 So as I understand it, in '80, 445,000 was budgeted for a continuation of this social costs/ social value study; right? A That's what the document states. I didn't prepare this document. Q That's right. Now, do you think this -- 7 8 13 under C, the "International seminar on public smoking," was that that symposium that you had 14 discussed in a document, a previous document? If you need me to identify it, I'll try to do it. I'm just trying to find if this was the same one. A I believe I recall the one you're referring to, the "I0." Yes, I think it's reasonable to assume that's probably what was referenced here. But again, I don't have a recollection that that seminar ever took place. I may be mistaken, but I don't recall it taking place. Q Right. But at least in this budget, 15 16 21 22 23 24 25 198
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0 ! 0 0 0 a 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 19 24 25 A In London. Q Where in London? A Again, just on the outskirts of London halfway to Heathrow Airport. Q In other words, it was the same that INFOTAB had been in; correct? A I'm just trying to recall so I don't make an erroneous statement whether those offices were under the name of INFOTAB at one point or not, but it's basically the same continuing entity. Q Did ICOSI ever have offices there in London at that -- A At that same location? No. Q Did they have offices elsewhere in England, ICOSI? A Bear with me. I'm just trying to think of the point in time. I believe ICOSI had an office in London, but it could very well have been in Brussels. I just don't recall, you know, the city location. Q When you worked there in 1994, were you t.n st 1 n public affairs or public relations? 0 ^,1 N A Yes. ~~ N Q At R.J.R. International? in A That's correct. 205 0
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! 0 0 0 40 A 0 1 2 3 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 signature; correct? A No, it's not. It's my secretary's on my behalf. Q She signed for you? A In this instance. Q It says, "First, as part of the INFOTAB database, they are looking for material describing accepted and proposed testing methods," et cetera. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q And it talks about Antonietta Corti -- is that her name? A That's correct. Q -- asking Dr. Colby if he would be able to lend assistance on administrative aspects of setting up their information system. A Yes, I do. Q Was that done? Was assistance given? A I believe Dr. Colby met with INFOTAB on one or two occasions to basically just help them organize their material. Q Do you have any idea what ever happened to this database? A The overall INFOTAB database? Q Yes. 203
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• 1 2 ! 3 4 0 5 6 7 0 8 9 Ab 10 11 12 + 13 14 15 ~ 16 17 . 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 0 A My recollection is that the major part, as stated here of the 500,000, at least half of it is increases in salaries. And as I recall, there were one or two people who were fairly highly paid, partly because of, you know, the high social costs -- Q A To To coin a coin a term. term, yes, sir. The add-on cost s of th e employment situation in Europe. I don't thin k thi s reflects a s ignifi cant numb er of people who were adde d to the staff . Q All right. And then you have some proj ectio ns on the -- a t para graph 3.6 on the revised '83 budget and contributions. Do you see that? A Yes, sir. May I just add something. I have p roj ec tions. This is just my summary of the projec tio ns in the binder. Q Well, that's fair enough. But the budget '81. 's st ill going up for '83 compared to '82 and A That would appear to be an accurate observation, yes, sir. cn .. Q Now, under paragraph 9 on the next to the u) N t•1 last paragraph, page 6, there's a description -- ro tn tn: A I'm sorry. There's double print here of a page. 201
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0 1 2 ! 3 4 6 7 0 8 9 10 ~ 11 12 ` 13 14 15 0 16 17 18 0 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 0 24 25 0 Q Oh, really. A Q Page 4 is duplicated. Page 6, the bottom of page 6. A Okay. Q It talks about "topics which are likely to arise for discussion." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q It says, "Social Acceptability, the secretary.general has prepared a slide presentation." A SG would be secretary general, yes. Q Did you ever see any slide presentation? A I may have. I don't recall the specific reference here Q . And there w as, was there not, a database established at INFOTAB? A I'm not sure if I would characterize it as a database. Certainly there were topical finds maintained. I t was an information-collecting resource. So I'm not sure what the reference to data was. N I F E hibit 24 k d ) x mar e . (PLAI T F BY MR. WITHEY: cn ' U) ' J n3 Q Well, let me show you. Here's Exhibit W 24. It's a letter from yourself to Dr'. Colby dated ~n m February 25th, '82 regarding INFOTAB. That's your 202
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• 1 0 N 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 10 11 12 0 0 44 r 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q And were you still involved in work pertaining to the Tobacco Document Center, INFOTAB, ICOSI, that whole -- SAWP -- kind of stuff going on with social costs? A The SAWP hadn't been in existence for a long time at that point, but, yes, generally as far as -- Q The issues? A Well, it was really less issues oriented. It really was more information. It took on more of sort of a library resource for public documentation. Q When did SAWP close down? Was it with ICOSI? A I believe it was. Probably somewhere in the -- before the mid half of 1980. I'm thinking '83, '84. I just don't recall precisely when. Q What -- A Maybe even earlier than that. Q Let's say hypothetically you're working in your office in 1994 before you left, and you had a thought, you know, you wanted to find out if there was a document in that Tobacco Document Center. How would you go about -- you know, you remember something you needed for your work. Then you need to get a document out of there. How would you have done it? ~ I 206
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1 0 2 3 E r 8 9 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 0 0 16 17 18 19 24 25 A I have no idea. Q Do you have any idea what happened -- well, when's the last time this, whether you call it information system or database, when's the last time you had any contact with it, or knowledge of it or involvement? A As INFOTAB or -- Q Or ICOSI or anything else. Did it evolve into another organization? A There was another organization basically, I think. Just a new name again. Q What's that called? A Tobacco Documentation Center. Q Where is that located or where was that . located? A That was located in London also. Q When did that come about? A I don't recall the specific date, but it really was, I think, just a continuation of INFOTAB. It wasn't, you know, closing down an old organization, starting up a new organization. Q Well, when you left in 1994, was the Tobacco Document Center still open? A Yes, it was. Q And where was it located? 204 0,
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• 0 ! r 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 r 15 16 17 ` 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 high-tech electronic thing, where you have to have special expertise in the product itself, I found that the method of conducting my responsibilities was very similar. BY MR. HOWARD: Q And how about the functions of ICOSI or that INFOTAB and in particular the Social Acceptability Working Party and its methods and objectives? How did they compare to what you were doing generally for Reynolds internationally and what you had done for Avon? A Again, I think there is a parallel, and there's a continuing parallel to what I'm doing in my continuing employment with Herbalife. I've always worked within trade associations. And even with a company like Avon, that you would think would not have any major sensitive issues, there are people who don't like direct selling or people knocking on the door, or they have -- there are issues relating to cosmetics or cosmetic ingredients and that type of thing. And even though all those industries are highly competitive, there are some areas of commonality which generally is the reason why associations are formed. And those associates 0 1 218
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r 1 0 ~ 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 r 15 16 17 . 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 A I'll give you an example. If I wanted to know what the excise tax rate was on cigarettes in a particular country, I might either pick up the phone and call or send a fax and just make the request. Q You would have the fax and phone number of this Tobacco Document Center in London there. You would have had that available to you? A Yes, I would. Q So you would just fax them a request for a particular document? You'd have to name the title. Was there some date at -- A It wouldn't be a request for a document or a particular document. It would be a request for whether they could help me gather some information, as I said, for example, on tax rates or tariff rates. Q Who headed that up, the Tobacco Document Center in London? A There was a -- I believe his title was director, administrator, if you will. Q Do you recall his name? A Yeah. Ron Tully, I think T-u-1-1-y or e-y. Q Do you have reason to believe that in that location in 1994 would be contairied the minutes of or the reports of ICOSI or INFOTAB memorandum, 207
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! ! • i 0 It 0 N 10 11 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 correspondence? A I just don't know. I don't know. Q But if you had known -- if you had wanted to find out from Mr. Tully or anybody working for him in 1994, when you were still with Reynolds International, that, gosh, there was a meeting back so and so, and I don't have the minutes. I'm looking for it. You know, it was ten years ago. Can you help me do that? Would that be reasonable to expect them to look for that? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Speculation. THE WITNESS: They were generally responsive to requests from member companies. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you know of anyplace else, other than the individual companies' files, that the minutes of reports of INFOTAB, ICOSI, all their committees and working papers would be located other than, again, the companies themselves or this Tobacco Document Center in London? A No, I don't. Q Was there any Tobacco Document Center office in Brussels when you left in '94, as far as you know? A I'm pretty certain there was not, no. 0 1 208
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r • • • • 0 6 S 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 International sell or distribute tobacco products in the United States? A I'm sorry. Would you repeat that. Q Did your employer R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International sell or distribute tobacco products in the United States? A Not that I'm aware of, no. Q One other question, Mr. Marcotullio. You were handed, this morning especially, several documents that were dated prior to your employment at R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International. A That's correct. Q As you were examining those documents, do you recall ever having seen any of those documents while working for R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International? MR. WITHEY: Objection. Compound. THE WITNESS: I'd have to go back and look at them again, but the documents that were there that were prepared prior to my joining the company, I don't have a specific recollection of. MR. COPENHAVER: No more questions. EXAMINATION BY MR. HOWARD: Q Mr. Marcotullio, by the way, we met off the record. I'll introduce myself again, Alan Howard 215
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insttrance v. Richard J. Marcotttllio , Philip Morrls October 30,1998 tzsi A: No, I don't. Izs10: Okay.To your knowledge~did the We pl American Enterprise Institute ev10 er publish anything by 121 way of a social costs or cost-benefit analysis as t31 in• dicated In this document? t.) A: I don't recall them specifically doing Isl that, no. Is) 0: All right,Let'sgo onto Chapter3.m This "Character of Antismoking Or• gatUtations" was le1 going to be kind of chapterin thlsmanual ort9) monograph; correct? 1101 A: Yes, that's cortectt tt» 0: Who isAaron WUdavsky? itzl A: I recognize the name.I'm not sure im whether he's a social scientist or what his actual Itq expertise is. tts) 0: He worked at Berkeley; correct? ttsl A: I don't know. tin 0: Have you ever met him? pei A: I don't recall I have. Its10: You never bad a conference in which he - im or meeting, in which he smoke about the political tztl culture of antismoking groups ora topic to that tul effect? txi) A: I could have been. I've been to 1241 conferences where there have been dozens, if not tzsl hundreds, of people. Pagrr 142 tt10: I'm talking about where he spoke. (ziA:Hemayhavespokenalso.i'vegone to an 131 awfui lot of conferences.I don't recall meeting him (y specifically. Isl Q: Do you recall reading hLs chapter or Isl draftorwhateveryouwantto tallit, report? m A: Not specifically, no. I couldn't ru call ta) any contents, whetherl did or did not. I910: Do you recaU that this is something you uol wrote, sir? 0:1 A: Pardon me? 11210: Do you recall that this is sotiw thing you u31 wrote? pu) A: No. 11510: Okay. Do you recall the topic of the ttsl antismoking organizations being discussed in this im manner, put It that waythat's contained within Itsl Chapter 3 of this document? usl A: Would you mind repeating that? 12010: Do you recall the topic of the activities Izq and Ideology and the mak- eup and composition of the 1221 anti- smoking organizations being discussed at any (231 meeting or conferences as reflected in this document? 1241 A: I recall discussing - being at meet- Ings Izsl where there was discussion of the nature of the Pega /43 IU antismoking groups, yes. (z) 0: And I assume you had the op- portunity to [sl look at this one page; correct? Nl A: I read It through very quickly, scanned ts1 it. 1610: I just have a couple questions. Do you m agree that - well, did you come awayfrom these tei discussions about the antismoking organhxtions tsi believing that the materials put out by these Ito] organizations had very little ideologieal content as Isti reflected in this doo• ttment? Was that a pzl characterization you would accept? im A: I think this Is saying Just the opposite, 1141 that there was not ida ological component. Its10: Look at - maybe you didn't get a chance. Itsl Look at the next to last paragraph. Im A: What this seems to be saying is that, in hs) whatever antistnoking mate- rials are referenced here, tts) there wasn't very much ideologioal content but that tmi others who presumably have knowledge are saying that IzU they are very much ideological in nature. t2zi 0: Did you yo»rself dnw any judgao- ent about ti3) the antismoking or• • ganiratlons? tzsl A: I don't recall specifically. I don't (asl thlnk I know enough about the antismoking Pap 144 orderto Iztl find out if they-its content? Izz) MR. SIEGLER:Objectlon, No fotur dation. The tz3) document speaks for itself. (x THEWiTNESS:I'm not really sure what this izsl means. Pag.146 u7 BY MR. WRHEY: 1210: Do you recall that ever being discussed? t3) A: Which? 1410: The idea of collecting dossiers on (s)leaders or individuals that an pan of tA the is1 qnti.etnoking organizations. .. m A: I don't recall it in the contezt of Is) .~ collecting dossiers, but certainly Iden- ro tifyhtg who the fs1 antismoking or• ! t. gattiradons and the driving forces po) ~ behind them are. pt) 0: What do you mean by idetai[ying them? Itt1 A: Indicating, you know, the source of major 1ts) txidcisms of the tobacco industry. It's not tt+l differe,m thaa any other indusay does when they Its) analyze their operating eavironment. You know, if psl people aft criticiZing them, they generally try to pn flnd out who's criticizing them. Itsl Q: Who would have carried out that effort to n9) try to find out who was caitlcizittg and gct to tzo) identify the leadership of the organizations? 1zt) MR. SIEGLER:Object. Mischatacterizes his Izz] testimonyThat was not his testimony. (z31 BY MR.INITHEY: 12410: You used a word - maybe I didn't tzsl chatactcrize it correctly. The leading forces. Is Pag.746 tt) otganizations to have drawn any strong conclusions. 1z10: Did you ever recall reading Mr. or Dr.-13) whatever it is, I guess It's a Mr.- Aaron tu Wildavsky's paper? Itwas about 300 pages long on the tsl andsmoking organizations, which attach materials. tB A: I don't recall specifically, no. m Q: The last sentence of the paragraph that tel you were reading from, the next to last paragraph I t91 have a question on. It states, "If this indeed is the im case"- that is,to avoid issues that might alienate w) some members - some members I think it means of the ital antismoking organizations - "evidence of a network of It31 ideologies beneath the anti- smokingsurface trtayrequirc tt41 a much more direct approach, possibly one whichwe uslwouldnot wish to pursue" (td) Do you see thaL' Itn A: Yes, I do, im 0: Is that indicating by direct approach a 1191 kind of an attempt to gather dossiers or portfolios or Imi doc- uments internal to these organizations in Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Script® pi that what you said? 121 MR. SIEGLER:That was not his tes- timony. 131 (Record read.) 1+1 BY MR. WITHEY: ts10: Who collected the infortnation on the Isl driving forces within the anti- smoking organizations? m A: To the best of my knowledge, much of that (e) infortnation,the analysis of antismoking forces, I9/ basically was known to a number of people who worked poi within the industryor migbt have been consultants to nt) the in- dustrySome of the namek7tave come up here, 1121 people who have observed social issues during their (t31 careers, social scientisas, some of whom have im contributed to the efforts of ICOSI. us10: I'm asking would collected the osl information. Who gathered It, who (27) Page 141 - Page 146
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• i 4 • 11 12 13 14 15 16 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 generally address noncommercial issues that are of interest to the industry collectively or the individual members. Q Was Avon a member of such a trade association? A Oh, yes. Q And with what other companies? What other members? A Well, it's interesting that Avon -- I started working with the direct selling association in Washington that Avon was, and still is, a member, and I'm now with my new employer Herbalife. They are active in the same direct selling organization. There are currently about 50 direct selling organizations around the world, and they have an umbrella group called World Federation of Direct Selling Association. So association work, whether it's state, regional, or international is highly common within various industries and various sectors. Q By the way, what is the basic business of Herbalife? A Herbalife is a direct selling, multilevel marketing company which distributes weight management, nutritional, and personal care products in 38 countries. 0 1 219
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• • 0 0 10 11 41 16 17 18 19 • 24 25 0 regarding his conclusions on the alleged 'social cost' of smoking." Do you have any recollection of ever seeing that document or knowing what it's about? A No, I don't. what was I doing working the day after Christmas? I think I know the answer. I was a brand-new employee. Q Brand new. You were trying to impress people. Do you guys have any questions? I'm pretty well done. I've got a few other documents I want to look through. MR. HOWARD: I have a few. MR. COPENHAVER: I have a couple. MR. WITHEY: I'm not done. I want to look at my -- EXAMINATION BY MR. COPENHAVER: Q Mr. Marcotullio, during your employment with Tobacco International from '79 to '94, did you ever have any job duties with respect to the sale or marketing of cigarettes in the United States? A No, I did not. Q Did your employer R.J. Reynolds Tobacco 214
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` • b ~ 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 0 24 25 0 Q Okay. Do you recall a "Mayfly," M-a-y-f-l-y, a direct-mail campaign regarding Mayfly proposals? A I recall the name. I recall the -- I recall that being discussed because I think it was a clever -- it was a name developed by a former colleague who was an avid fly fisherman, and he thought it was a clever name. But I don't recall what the context was for that name`being attached to something. Q Do you recall a paper presentation entitled "Macro-Economics of the Prevention of Tobacco-related Diseases"? We can have that marked. A I don't recall that. (PLAINTIFF Exhibit 25 marked.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q This is a memo written by yourself to Dr. Colby the day after Christmas, 1979, related to a meeting at Cold Spring Harbor in October of '79. Do you see that, sir? A I do see that, yes. Q It refers to a document called "Macro-Economics of the Prevention of Tobacco-related Diseases." His paper is of particular interest 213 cn ,... w v Dti w ro ~ ~
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• • • • s 10 • • 0 • 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 products or any Herbalife products are addictive to the people that use them? A Again, not to my knowledge, no. Q Are you aware of any group of organizations, either groups, leaders, organizations, that are taking the position that Avon causes excess and premature deaths, any Avon or Herbalife products cause premature death or excess -- A No, Counsel, I'm not aware of. Q Are you aware of any organizations in the society that take the position that Avon or Herbalife products should not be used because they harm the people that use them? A There are some people who hold the view that dietary supplements in general were -- dietary supplements with certain ingredients could cause harm to certain individuals. Q And did -- and these were Herbalife or -- A Herbalife products have been criticized in that regard, and other companies have been criticized in that regard. Q Who criticized them? A You will find people, whether they're in the medical community or elsewhere, who hold a particular point of view about diets and the role of 0 1 222
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• 0 • 0 • 10 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 A 4 16 17 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 of Winston & Strawn on behalf of Defendant Philip Morris in this action, and I just have a few general questions for you, sir. Could you give us what was your title, your position, with Avon during the ten years you were there. A I had a couple of positions. I started off as -- I think it was attorney, state and local affairs; then manager, state and local affairs; group manager, state and local affairs; director, government affairs Europe; director, government affairs international. Q And what generally were your responsibilities in these functions for Avon? A Up until the time I moved to the international side as director of international government affairs, it was primarily state and loca]l government relations work, legislative work on behalf of Avon. Q And what would that entail? What were you trying to achieve on behalf of Avon to this kind of legislative work? A Basically monitoring legislative and local ordinance issues that would have been of interest to the company, either because they impacted 216
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• • MR. HOWARD: I have no further questions. Thank you. THE WITNESS: You're very welcome. FURTHER EXAMINATION cn ... 41 0 ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 0 21 22 23 24 25 w BY MR. WITHEY: r w Q Is there any difference in your mind ~n between the product that you -- well, the cigarette product that your company was involved with, International, at least, and any of the Avon or Herbalife products? Is there any difference between those products? A I believe there is a difference. MR. HOWARD: Object to form. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Is there any difference in terms of the -- has the surgeon general ever made the claim that any Avon product causes lung cancer? A Not to my knowledge. Q Has the surgeon general of the United States ever written a report that Herbalife products cause lung cancer or any kind of cancer or any kind of disease? A Not to my knowledge. Q Has the surgeon general of the United States ever written a report that either any Avon ~ ~ 221
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• • 4 • ~ 10 11 12 9 • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 Q In response to one of plaintiff's counsel's questions earlier today, I believe you said -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that part of what you were doing with the Social Acceptability Working Party and through INFOTAB and ICOSI, was helping your employer, Reynolds International, profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes; is that correct? A Would you mind repeating that? Q Sure. I believe in response to a question concerning generally the workings of the trade association, what you're doing, I think that plaintiff's counsel asked you whether -- I'll find the exact words -- whether generally the goal of the industry was to preserve its ability to profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes. And I wonder if in the context in which you say that, is it fair to say what you did for Avon and what you're doing for Herbalife is to help those companies to profitably manufacture and sell, whether it be cosmetics or weight-loss products? A Yes, in general. Specifically as it relates to having an environment which allows the products to be sold without unfair restrictions basically. * 1 220
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• • • • 8 9 * 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 • 16 17 # 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 0 the direct selling method of distribution generally or Avon and its products specifically, analyzing them, recommending the position that the company should take, and then participating in lobbying that position before the state or local government entity. Q And how generally did that compare with your function once you moved to Reynolds International? A Actually it had a great deal of relevancy. It was basically a continuation of the same types of skill sets that I had learned during the previous ten years. I found myself in Reynolds working very much on international trade issues, taxation issues, advertising issues, a whole range of tariff issues, legislative proposals. That formed a large body of the work that I did at Reynolds. Q in your experience, was the government affairs and state and local affairs type functions of a company like Avon or Reynolds consistent with what other companies did? MR. WITHEY: Objection. Vague. THE WITNESS: I think I know what you're getting at. I think I can answer that. Yeah, I found it to be very similar. I think as long as you're dealing with a consumer product as opposed to maybe a 217
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0 • 0 • • 0 0 • 0 10 11 16 17 18 19 24 25 nutritional and dietary supplements. Q Including that they cause diseases or that they may not be good for you? A Not generally that they cause diseases, but they will question some other ingredient may cause you harm or whether the products are healthful or necessary to use. Q What's the trade association for Herbalife products that's comparable to ICOSI or INFOTAB, if there is any? A Well, there are two different. One relates to the products, and there are organizations such as the Council for Responsible Nutrition that goes more towards the dietary supplement nature of the products. And then there's the number of direct selling associations which relate to the distribution method for the products. Q Do you have any role or responsibility with the Council for dietary -- A Council for Responsible Nutrition. Q Continuous? A Yeah, I serve on some of those committees. Q And has that council adopted a countermeasure to discredit the medical individual -- 223
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• • • • 10 ~ 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 • 16 17 18 • 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 the doctors or people who are putting out that certain dietary supplements may be harmful? A I wouldn't couch it in terms of countermeasures, but they certainly express their point of view when they disagree with a criticism or cn t,. U5 an observation which doesn't represent their position .~' or what they represent as the state of scientific ~ evidence. Q Have they gathered materials on who these people are and kept a report, I mean, written a report on who they are? A Well, they certainly are collecting things that were written. They would know who the author is, and they would collect articles. And if it's a government document, they would certainly know who authored the document. Q Would they attack -- they being council -- see it as a mission of attacking those people in either the academic literature or in society i l? n genera A I don't think they would be attacking individuals in either regard. They would just be writing their commentary or critique of the substance of the articles that were written. Q It would be inappropriate for the council 0 1 224
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• 1 a 2 3 9 • 10 11 12 • • 17 • 18 19 20 • • 4 5 6 7 8 I, RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO, do hereby declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript; that I have made such corrections as noted herein, in ink, initialed by me, or attached hereto; that my testimony as contained herein, as corrected, is true and correct. EXECUTED this __ day of 13 14 15 16 I (City) (State) 19 , at RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO 21 22 23 24 25 0 1 .231
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• • • • ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 • 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 • to attack those that are expressing the viewpoint that there may be some problem with dietary supplements; correct? A It would depend on the nature of the ca .-• . attack and the person who wrote that. I mean -- ~ N Q So it would be okay to attack them in W R, certain circumstances, the council to attack them? V LL7 A well, just to create a hypothetical, if there was somebody who had absolutely no credentials and is writing an article critical of, let's say, a dietary supplement, it probably would be appropriate to point out that that person has no particular expertise. Again, it's a hypothetical. Q Well, do you know of such people? A No. Q All right. But you understood that there were doctors, surgeon general of the United States, that took the position that smoking in public places was harmful and that smoking itself causes lung cancer; correct? A I'm aware of that position. Q Those are reputable people, not crazies. Fair enough? The surgeon general and doctors that believe smoking is hazardous are reputable? A I wouldn't characterize the surgeon ~ 225
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• • • 0 a 0 • 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 r 18 19 24 25 general as being crazy. Q And he is reputable, is he? He has a good representation, does he not, the surgeon general of the United States? A Surgeon generals, I think, are honorable people. :n ~ ~ Q And would it be appropriate for ICOSI or rO . W rO INFOTAB or any of the organizations under them, to ~ attack those viewpoints of the surgeon general and people like the surgeon general? (Interruption in the proceedings.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Would it be -- I assume that the people that are raising concerns about dietary supplements are -- are they physicians, some of them? A In some cases, yes. Q Do they raise these concerns through the established channels of medical journals and peer-reviewed literature generally? A Sometimes yes. Sometimes through lay media. Q Let's assume they write these articles in the medical journals -- okay? -- critical or at least raising concerns about dietary supplements. Would it be appropriate for the council to attack those 0 1 226
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individuals? • • • (Interruption in the proceedings.) MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. If I may state an objection. I think it's hypothetical. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Would it be appropriate for the council or any of its committees or organizations to attack those individual physicians who have put these views r • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 forward in the medical literature? MR. HOWARD: Object to form. MR. SIEGLER: Also object to the word "attack" as vague. BY MR. WITHEY: Q You can answer. A I think it would be more appropriate,to comment on the nature of what they said rather than the individuals. Q Do you want to answer the question would it be appropriate to attack them? MR. SIEGLER: Same objections. UI THE WITNESS: Again, I think it depends on the o credentials of the individual. I mean, if there are wP credentialed people, but I don't see this as being an attack on individuals. It's expressing a specific point of view. 0 1 227
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0 1 ~ 2 3 4 0 0 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 • 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 0 MR. HOWARD: I just do have one follow-up. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. HOWARD: Q Mr. Marcotullio, you were talking in response to the last round of questions by plaintiff's counsel about the appropriateness of Herbalife and its trade association taking issue with positions expressed in the medical community concerning weight-loss supplements; correct? A That's correct. Q And I believe -- you can correct me if I'm wrong -- that your belief is it is appropriate to take issue with the opinion expressed by people, though not attack them as individuals; correct? A That's what I was trying to articulate, 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 yes. 16 Q I understand. In the same way that you were working with INFOTAB and ICOSI, did you believe it appropriate for that organization to take issue with allegations and opinions being expressed by antismoking forces in the United States, if the tobacco industry did not agree with those positions? A Yes. 21 22 23 24 Q And is that in fact what you were doing as part of that social costs project and the Social 25 229 0
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • 5 6 7 • 8 9 • 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 • 16 17 • 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 Acceptability Working Party? A I was not specifically U.S. oriented nor was ICOSI necessarily specific ally U.S. oriented. If the U.S. is an example of the same line of thinking that would be appropriate to t ake a different point of view, then, yes, I think it's appropriate to do so. MR. HOWARD: I have nothing further. [n ~.:. u7 4 '1 CS na m -~ 0 1 230
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• • • PaqNLIn. Rrcm CHANGES/CORRECTIONS 4 • • • • • • 0 witn..s siqr,.cur. on. 0
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1 • • • 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Interruption in the proceedings.) MR. WITHEY: I don't have anything further. Oh, one other thing. Q Did you ever have any contact with any R.J.R. employee once you received this subpoena to do deposition? A I just placed one phone call to R.J. Reynolds' legal department to let them know that I had received a subpoena. Q And who did you talk to there? A I think his name is McKim, Tom McKim. Q What did you tell him? MR. SIEGLER: Excuse me. I'm going to interpose an objection and instruct the witness not to answer. The reason is that, at least under California law -- and I don't know if it's the same there -- employees and former employees are entitled to speak with company counsel regarding litigation matters. Maybe at a later time he would retain separate counsel, and in fact he did. But to the extent that he believed he was seeking legal advice from counsel, company counsel, I'm going to instruct him not to answer. MR. WITHEY: We won't fight that. I have nothing further. • ~ 228
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• 1 0 2 3 4 ~ 5 6 7 0 8 9 10 0 11 12 ~ 13 14 15 • 16 17 18 • 19 20 ~ 21 22 23 • 24 25 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES :ss ) I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of California, do hereby certify: That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and place herein set forth; that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, prior to testifying, were placed under oath; that a verbatim record of the proceedings was made by me using machine shorthand which was thereafter transcribed under my direction; further, that the foregoing is an accurate transcription thereof. I further certify that I am neither financially interested in the action nor a relative or employee of any attorney of any of the parties. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date subscribed my name. Dated: November 3, 1998 l:`.iK 1VO. 74bb 0
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTH DISTRICT OF OHIO, EASTERN DIVISION IRON WORKERS LOCAL UNION NO. 17 INSURANCE FUND; et al., Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) No. 1:97 CV 1422 PHILIP MORRIS, INCORPORATED; et al., Defendants. EXHIBIT, CERTIFIED CO PY DEPOSITION OF RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO Los Angeles, California Friday, October 30, 1998 Reported by: LYNN ZINK CSR No. 9466 JOB No. 89782 r"~ ESQUIREM DE OSl Lb9N L6X(ICE i 6222 Wilshire Boulevard •~Suitc • 05 8e e$, CA 90048 323.938.2461 • Fax 323.931.3016 • 800.640,2461 ~ cc: c1Ge
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t UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO EASTERN DIVISION 3 f 4 IRON WORKERS LOCAL UNION NO. 17 INSURANCE FUND; et al., Civil Action No.: 1: 97 CV 1422 5 6 9 * 1o Plaintiffs, V. PHILIP MORRIS, INCORPORATED.; et al., Defendants. JUDGE JAMES S. GWIN NOTICE OF DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO TO: RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO ~ AND TO: ALL PARTIES OF RECORD AND TO: ALL COUNSEL OF RECORD YOU, AND EACH OF YOU, WILL PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that the testimony of the following- described person, will be taken on oral examination before trial at the instance and request of the plaintiffs in the above-entitled and numbered action before a notary public. Said oral examination of said witness at said time and place to be subject to continuance or adjournment from time to time or place to place until completed. DATE:: October 23, 1998 TIME: 9:00 a.m. PST LOCATION: Esquire Deposition Service 6222 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 204 Los Angeles, California 90048 Q 25 26 This testimony upon oral examination will be taken on the grounds of and for all purposes set forth under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that the said witness will give evidence material to the establishment of the plaintiffs' case. ll NOTICE OF DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO -1 rs F9F10^:i ' '7 LY, ;~ , .,.. .; ;: LP k':;:(~:<,5 Y +-ry 1200 )larketPlace 7uwer 2025 FlrstArznue Seattle. WA 98127 STRITbIATTER KESSLER WHELAN WITHEY (206) a18•1777
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! i ' 2 In accordance with FRCP 45, the deponent is directed to bring with him the documents identified in the 3 attached duces lecum. ~ 4 DATED thisk- day of .1998. 3 6 * 7 8 9 010 12 013 14 15 016 17 18 0 1s 20 STRITMATTER KESSLER WHELAN WITHEY Michael E. Withey Counsel for Plaintiffs Bar Membership No. 4787 1200 Market Place Tower 2025 First Avenue 21 . 22 Cll 23 r ~ J 24 r'y LJ R:1 ~ 2 5 ua F7 2 6 NOTICE OF DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO -2 ~ 1200 7larket Place Tower 2025 Flrstdvenue Seattle. WA 98121 STRITb1.iTTER KESSLER WHELAN WITHKY 12061aieJ777
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0 • • INTERNATI0NA1. COAYSITTES 0 0 06i SIdOKINCa ISSOES t; 9 ~}1pRIL?1979 ^ P 1k'S .~ 'Z an..ir ; 0
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• , • March 27-29,1974, Bermuda; ' ' March 31 & April 1, 1977, Munich, West Germany; June 1977, Berkshire, England; { ' November 1977, Lausanne, Switzerland; ~ • 6 March 1978, Hamburg, Germany; ~ 7 • August 1978, Winstom-Salem, North Carolina, U.S.A.; $ • September 1978, Leeds Castle, England; 0 y • February 1979, Amsterdam, Holland; I 16 • April 17-18, 1979, Brussels, Belguim; 11 • May 20-23,1979 conference in Zurich, Switzerland; • 12 13 • August 7, 1979, Brussels, Belgium; , a • August 14-15, 1979, Shockerwick House; * '' ' September 9-10,1979, Scottsdale, Arizona, U.S.A,; Is • October 1-2, 1979; 17 • October 23-24, 1979; ~ le May 29,1980, London, England; ,, 4. Any and all documents concerning any and all contacts or communications with 21 any employee, agent or consultant of Devon Management Resources Incorporated, including, but ''- not limited to George R. Berman. ca 23 This subpoena may be supplemented prior to the time of deposition. ~a v g a r(, W ? s )±i (A 26 /:PII tlnrM'1 4 sos; ofth• ,( . 5'I'RI'/'tlll'(IiR AIiSS/•KR ltl//tl,.t\ ISI1'UFV iTtuiftaN•j'
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• 2 3 0 4 s s 7 8 14 17 20 26 ATTACHMENT TO SUBPOENA FOR RICHARD J. MARCOTULLIO DEFINITIONS As used herein, the following definitions are applicable: 1. Do Iment or doc umentatlon: The term "document" means any written, recorded or graphic matter, however produced or reproduced, and copies and drafts thereof. Without limiting the foregoing, "documents" includes correspondence, memoranda, reports, notes, drafts, minutes, contracts, agreements, books, records, including but not limited to laboratory reports and all supporting data, vouchers, invoices, diaries, logs, calendar notes, computer printouts and memory programs, backup material of any kind, card files, press clippings, newspaper or newsletters, sworn or unsworn statements of employees, lists, audits, tables of organization, deposit slips, monthly statements, period statements of whatever sort, ledgers, journals, notices, affidavits, court papers, appointment books, conferences, telephone calls, receipts, written reports or opinions of investigators or experts, status reports, drawings, charts, photographs, negatives or brochures within your possession, or subject to your control, of which you have knowledge, or to which you now have or have had access, or of which any of your agents, attorneys, accountants or consultants have knowledge. 2. Contact: The term "contact," in either the present or past tense, means conversations, telephone calls or conferences; physical presence; and correspondence. 3. Communication: "Communication" means any correspondence, contact, discussion or exchange between any two or more persons. Without limiting the foregoing, "communication" includes all documents, telephone conversations, any means of transmitting a message, face-to-face conversations, meetings and conferences. 0 I?uo \iarArl i'Imr finrr 111'.+iYlnl NriWr - I - ~NlllY.lq'~HI:I 1'fRIT\I\ffF:K ril:\\I.F:K Rlll:l, \• NI'f11P:1 Il11~1 aix-IS711
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0 10 1 ,6 17 ,H 19 20 ?, 22 z3 24 25 26 i 4. Person: "Person" means, without limitation, any natural person, partnership, corporation, unincorporated association, joint venture, trust, labor union or any other form of business, social or legal entity. 1 5. EWh: "Each" includes the word "every" and "every" includes the word "each." i "Any" includes the word "all" and "all" includes the word "any." "And" includes the word "or" and "or" includes the word "and." 6. Terms in the plural include the singular and terms in the singular include the plural. 7. The masculine form of any noun or pronoun includes the feminine and the neuter form, 8. You: "You" means the party to whom this Subpoena Duces Tecum is addressed, and/or any attorneys, agents or employees. Do IIMFiYT,S RF,i2tMS.TED_ 1. Any and all documents concerning any and all work performed by you on behalf of any tobacco manufacturer or tobacco-related entity, including, but not limited to, Philip Morris Tobacco Company; Philip Morris U.S.A.; Philip Morris International; Philip Morris Europe; R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company; RJ. Reynolds Industries, Inc.; R.J. Reynolds Tobacco International, Inc.; Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company; British-American Tobacco Company; B.A.T, Industries, PLC.; Imperial Tobacco Company Ltd. (U.K.); Gallaher Ltd. (U.K.); Gallaher International Ltd. (U.K.); Gallaher (Dublin) Ltd, Ireland; Gallaher Group PLC; The Tobacco Institute, Inc. (U.S.A.); The Tobacco Advisory Council (U.K.); The Canadian v Tobacco Manufacturer's Committee (CTMC); Verband de Cigarettenindustrie; International w r+~ u7 Committee on Smoking Issues (ICOSI); the ICOSI Social Acceptability Working Group L" PLW \iuNn 19x - 2 - 102) Mln.l \srm 5rd1Un 1l-i f411 sTKI'f11\I'TP:N Kb:i:/,h:R SSIIIii..t~ 1SITIIUI iY/mli+wt975
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2. • • • 0 4 SHORT HDBTpRy TO DATE 1. Briefly, ICOSI has been developed and hae taken shape since Juna 1977 through a series oti meetings attended by Officers and Reprosentatives of the seven founder co*.apaniea. YYe primcipal tteetiiigs havc bcens Jime 1977 BerEahiro, Enqland, Host - Impariai Noveraber 197•7 Lausanne, Switzerland, Host - Philip Morris llarci 197•8 Hamburg, Gerr~any, Host - Reemtama August 19•78 Winston-Salem, USA, Host - Reynolds September 1978 Leeds Castle, England, Hopt --DAT ` February 197•9 Amstordaa,'Holland, 8oet - Rothmane ` 2. During this time and by these ttnetings the fundaaoentals ef ICO.vs's policy, form, organisation, ti.noncSnr5 and wor7c- progrumeces hc:bg been settled, 3. ICOSI has a t.,harter and is constituted as a non-profit Association governod by Axticies 60 throuqh 79 of the Swiaa Civil Co6e. The statutory office of the Association is cslcabliehed in the Canton of Geneva, Hxitzerland. cn ,-. u7 - f4 ... . ....-.._ Ch} ~._.._ N 0
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0 AO as (Aar. 7141) SDepoena In a Clvl ?~ttiteb btatEg Zi~trut ~ourt ' Centrai_ _ Northern District Fund & Trustees, et al., DLS71t[GR OF -a7i nrnia of Ohio Iron Workers Loel Union No. 17 InsuranciSUBPUETTA IN A QVQ. CA$E auqvllp District of Ohio 1:97 CV 1422 V. * • Philip Morris, Inc., et al. TO:Richard J. Marcotullio 1213 Via Descanso Palos Verdes Peninsula, CA 90274-1904 0 YOU ARE COMMANDED to appear in the United States District Court at the piace, date, and time specified below to testify in the above case. PUCE OF TESTIMONY COURTROOM DATE AND TIME }Q YOU ARE COMMANDED to appear at the place, date, and time specified below to testify at the taking of a deposition • in the above case. PUCE DF DEPOSITION Esquire Deposition Service 6222 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 204, Lcs Angeles, CA 0 • 0 ~ ciiaca. i cssayli AttorneV f • DATE AND TIME October 23, 1998 9:00 a.m. PST XQ YOU ARE COMMANDED to produce and permit inspection and copying of the following documents or objects at the place, date, and time specified below (list documents or objects): See attached. . ' DATE ANO TIME PLACE Esquire Deposition Service October 23, 1998 6222 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 204, Los An~eles, CA 9:00 a.m. PST D YOU ARE COMMANDED to permit inspection of the following premises at the date and time specified below. PREMISES DATE AND TIME Any organization not a party to this suit that is subpoenaed for the taking of a deposition shall designate one or more officers, directors, or managing agents, or other persons who consent to testify on its behalf, and may set forth, for each person designated, the matters on which the person will testify. Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, 30(b) (6). ISSUING OFFICER SIGNATURE AND TITLE (INDICATE IF ATTORNEY FOR PUINTIFF OR DEFENDANTI ISSUING OFFICER'S NAME ADDRESS AND PN9J(GNUMEER MICHAEL E. WITHEY, 9f'RITMATTER KESSLER WHELAN WITHEY 2025 First Avenue, Suite 1200, Seattle, WA 98121 (Sn Ru1@ 45. F.cvar Ruln ol CirA Prot.uun. PaeF C 8 D on R.v.na (206) 448-1777
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• • • 1 • • • 0 r 5. LEAD COMPTSNIL'8 - RESPONSI9LIS FOR C0Mp1(LiiCATIONS K'T9Fi EACH COUN:FRY 1. The procedure at the moment in operation is that each country haq been mada t]io responaibility oi one ICOSi member company both as regards cor,munications to and from thc relevant Tuade Asaooiotion and the collectl.a+g of vital insormation for IC09I. Lead companies and tltelr co•.mtrien are at present as Toxiowa: snTi Denmark Norway Imdoncaia Malayaia India Sang].a nenh Brazil Central America, excl. GuaEe=la and Rcundor Chile rrw Zealand Philio Rorri6l 9witserland Finland 9w.eften Argentine Vene xuela Guatemala Philipi:eea Pa:ciaten Austrnlia Ite n~mlde: IInited states RpLhma:ca: Canada~ Hong xong Ecuador 9pain Ia cg2rial: UR Galah~rs Racmtoma,s Gerrsang Greece Benoiux France South Africa 5ingapore Eire 0
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r 7. • EEC• COpStk1ERISM TASK i'ORCE • • • • 3. The•tera,e of reference of this Task Corce is to make clear to the EEC that the Treaty of Rome doos not allow the harranisati,on of health mattera, including advertising for tobacco products. Syy a seriea of actions, interventions and aubFuasions at various levels of the EEC argunisations under its Chairmnn Dieter von Speoht, conaiderabLe'quoccee has been achieved. 4. For example, tha.8ealth Ministers of all B1+C countries recently met to coordinate their attiNudes concerning tl:e smoking iasus. The very perfunctory conmitmants they were able to agree on prove that the main uolitical impact has been removed fro:a the EEC anti- smoking i.nitlatlve for the timo being. 5. Furthera'.nro, in tte European Parliament itaclf, strong and influential statemante have only very recent'-y been nada agalns•t what is called "harmontaatyon Tor harmoniaation's sake". SAftiP - SOCTAG ACCEPTAIIILITY SdORRIffi0 PARTY • 0 6. :4ao SOorking Party copes with the axut dilficult prcbZems. ~ Three basic lovol8 for Soeial Acceptakility iecuoa have been defined: passive smoking, sa:okcr courtesy and social COZt. 7. SAkY produced a Posi.tion Paper on Hagaive Smking. And they also • condueted a research study into the Social Acceptability l.sAuea in eleven countrica. N& . GJ W~ N cn s µ ~ 0
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• . (SAWP); the ICOSI Social Acceptability Working Group (SAWP) Countermeasures Development Sub-Committee; INFOTAB; Hill & Knowlton, International; Shook, Hardy & ~ Bacon; and Jacob, Medinger & Finnegan. 2. Any and all documents concerning any and all contacts and communications between you and any of the following persons: Geoffrey Bible; Hamish Maxwell; R.M. Comer; 0 Hugh Culiman; J. Morgan; R. W. Murray; Jules M. Hartogh; Donald K. Hoel; Edwin J. Jacob; Timothy M. Finnegan; J.R. Peterson; Ronald Sustana; Jim Hind; Murray Senkus; David Narr; ` Max Crohn; Charles A. Tucker; Samuel B. Witt; Dennis C. Durden; Frank G. Colby; Edward A. n Horrigan; J. Paul Sticht; J. Tylee Wilson; William D. Hobbs; Bynum Tudor; Bill Brier; P.M. 1 Schuler; K. Stewart Lockhart; Gwynn C. Hargrove; Mary W. Covington; Julian Doyle; ~ Josephine Shakespeare; M.E.H. Mulholland; Theo Van Gorkam; George R. Berman; Horace 13 Komegay; William Kloepfer; Fred Panzer; Leonard Zahn; Robert Tollison; Richard E. Wagner; 4 6' Marvin Kastenbaum; Lewis Solman; Robert Nozick; Aaron Wildavsky; Sherwin Feinhandler; ,,; Peter Berger; Dr. S.C. Littlechild; Alan E. Woodfield; Dr. Harald Koenig; Dr. Herb Bentley; 17 Marshall Thompson; and Edward Grefe. 018 3. Any and all notes, memoranda, minutes and agendas concerning any and all Is meetings/conferences of ICOSI and/or any of its working parties or task forces, including, but 20 not limited to the Executive Committee, the Social Acceptability Working Party (SAWP) and the SAWP Countermeasures Development Sub-Committee, and any and all meetings/conferences of Z,; any tobacco industry trade associations, including but not limited to, The Tobacco Institute, Inc. 24 (U.S.A.); The Tobacco Advisory Council (U.K.); The Canadian Tobacco Manufacturer's 25 Committee (CTMC); Swiss Association of Cigarette Manufacturers (ASFC); and the Verband de 211 Cigarettenindustrie, including, but not limited to the following dates and locations: 121/i1 UarArll9afr ruN/•r - 3 - . 4i1:; fina l,rmm N' Tkll'tlAM"'1.1•:k IkIU:LVI ttll'lll;l IY0illa0+-1777
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Subject: Social Costs Piece in Business Week Oate: February 10, 1982 • • 0 0 To: Wr. C. A. Tucker Mr. R. Marcotullio Mr. S. B. Witt Mr. E. Caglarcan From: Dennis Durden The attached copy is from the latest Business Week (Feb. 15, 1982). The middle article is a very clear recap and summary of all the key allegations made against cigarettes in the social costs arena. This is the first time that I have seen the whole bundle of "social costs" allegations presented as a straight- forward. piece in a business magazine. I imagihe this column has high readership among top=level business people. We know that many of these business people have been taken in by anti-smoking allegations. Therefore, they may be predisposed to believe the allegations set out here. Particularly in this time of budget strains, they may indulge in even stronger feelings about letting our industry and customers pay more of t growing tax bills. T , this article is a very important straw in the wind, and I am afraid we w 1 see many more similar ones in the future unless and until we can counter t e e allegations. r L5 E;n".'T. F7^. 1C'c'a- 'ti LYNN':At'S:? G^, c.:S~ , 0
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Inter-office Memorandum • S,iiir-cr: Inmediacy of the "Social Cos'.s" issue To: Messrs: J. R. Peterson Ron Sustana C. A. Tucker Jim Hind (w/c) Max Crohn (w/c) Sam Witt (w/c) Earlier predictions about the development of the "sccial costs" issue in smoking are coming through a little faster than I articipated (see my most recent memo to C. A. Tucker). If you haven't already done so, I strongly recommend that you read the front page story in today's Wall Street Journal (Wednesday, May 10, 1978). Fortunately, the article does not specifically mention smoking, but it does: 1. Highlight the rapidly-growing interest that corporations have in reducing their health benefits costs. l V 4. "From:r Dennis Durden • • • • • 2. Points out a number of ingenious corporate programs to encourage employees to stay healthy--including the "bonus" program at Mobil. Thus, the article underscores the fact that business is indeed "ripe" for health maintenance and prevention programs--the kind that could eventually lead to anti-smoking efforts. Besides the reference to Mobil's program, I also was particularly interested in the reference of the "double stake" that unions have in reducing health costs. This is the first time I've seen it spelled out so clearly, and it could be a harbinger of things to come. 11 in all, the article confirms what we've suspected and suggests to me some ssential avenues of follow-through by us and/or the industry. I hope we'll • t a chance to discuss these soon. M anwhile, I did want to send this memo just in case you might not have seen t e Journal article. I can provide you a copy if you don't have one available. • 6 I pag Dase: May 10, 1972' If5 r,,,.T 3.-... cc Messrs: J. Paul Sticht J. Tylee Wilson (w/c) r; :s 4un: 'a: 'i+owbs~ _~ l~:~._. a! D~ Bynum Tudor w/c) Bill Grier
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12. 0 5. 0 6. ~ 7. • • • • Also chaired by Mr. J.K. Hartoqh of Philip Morris, the Task Force on the Effects of Advertising on Cl,garettee.ia making studies in order to prepzore a- basic Position Paper and to pull toqether all exiating docameatatlon on this contravorcial subject. The 68G Consulaer,lsrn Task Force will be maintaining the contacts already eptabliahed with the various 8RC Instlitutionn and will continue to pass objective iniorrAabion to thcm. in addition it intende to evaluate the resulta of #ha Hoalth Tax in Britain and promote analyses larourabla to the Industry point of view. The.ICO5I Secretariat -andex its new Secretary General will he deneloping the ways and.Aloanr to carry out ita objectives. Partiaularly inportant will be Che area of infornation collechion and dlstribution, and rCOS72 in 7irussels oan be expected to becwne eventually a databank tor 'Rrade Associations and member conpanies worldwide. Me ~ V . ' W ~ cn • ~.. ~ w E.i t~l m 0
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Document 52 of 76 ~ sure C~ summo. rfer doa ~ n.xt doa ~4~ Hoise~- View the Tiff Images Title: PRESENTATION ON SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES TO INFOTAB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING OCTOBER 31,1983 (831031). Document No.: 503113176 -3184 Document Type: REPORT Date: 19831031 Request Number: PLAINTIFF LETTER REQUEST Production Date: 19971110 Box: RJR4244
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! PRESFMATION ON IAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES TO INFOTAB BOARD OF DIRECTORS PEEfING OCTOBER 31, 1983 BEFORE REPORTING TO THE BOARD ON THE CURRENT ACTIVITIES OF THE PROJECT TEA14 FOR SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A FEW BACKGROUND CCMMENTS AND OBSERVATIONS, IN THE EARLY DAYS OF ICOSI, THE SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY WORKING PARTY (SAWP) IDENTIFIED ALLEGATIONS OF "SOCIAL COSTS" AS A CCMPONENT OF THE OVERALL SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY CHALLENGE TO THE INDUSTRY, SPECIFICALLY IN AN EARLY REPORT IT WAS STATED THAT "SMOKING IS ASSERTED TO BE SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE BECAUSE IT ALLEGEDLY RAISES SOCIETY'S INSURANCE AND HEALTH CARE COST, SMOKERS ARE ASSERTED TO BE SICK MORE OFTEN, REQUIRE MORE FIEDICaL TREATMENT, AND DIE EARLIER, THEY ALLEGEDLY REQUIRE OTHERS IN SOCIETY TO PAY HIGHER TAXES AND INSURANCE PREIIIUMS TO 'SUBSIDIZE' THE SOCIAL COSTS/EXPENSES SUPPOSEDLY GENERATED BY Sf^OKERS", THAT STATEMENT IS AN EXCELLENT SUh'MARY OF THE "SCCIAL COST" ISSUE OR ISSUES, AND IS AS VALID TODAY AS IT WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, cn DURING 1979 SAWP WAS ASKED TO FOCUS SPECIAL EFFCRTS ON "SCCIAL COSTS;w IN' u14 PREPARATION FOR THEIR ASSIGNFIENT, A WORKING GROUP WAS FORMED AND VARIOUS ~" CONSULTANTS RETAINED, INCLUDING PETER BERGER (SOCIOLCGIST-RUTGERS, SUBSEQUENTLY ~ ~ BOSTON COLLEGE), SHERWIN FEINHANDLER (CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGIST ~SOCIAL SYST P1S ^' 01~5 y~ .~ . ~.., ..-,:: . . '!~ . .- ~
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• 0 • 0 • • • • • w 1D. 'fYaft Associations - their role ana' characteristics Present restrictions in selected countriea Lega1 and underly'-ng issues (e.q. Product Liability) SANR - Public sawkinq issue, etc. ° XItC Connwesiaam 9ask Y®rce - Stockholm Conference Txsk Porce - Swiss teefrrendwx - Proposition 5 in California STAG (Scientific and Techyical Action Group) EAC (El~cota ot Advertising on Cigarettes) 6.J. de vos (TUIDIaC/Rotr~nana ) C. Vogel (Reamts:n&) P. SmhcLer (R.S. Reynoida) f . GoqRl (RQemtsllCa) N. Doi6s (Sr9.n)anan/Ro ttttnans)• G.C'. HaYgrove ' feA!1'1 R.M. Corner (L'ht L.}p. Morxis) / P.M. Schulox (R.J. Reynolds) G.C. itargrove (9AT) R.~t. Corner (Yh11ip tdorris) f cn ko v ro 0
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'~. World economicYoutlook: Re +ove'ry for.the industrialnations•?a9e9~ ' n. ®, u,. - ,.,,.Hill ~it49 ffl'1 hP!G lt.mtL!A. ® ;MOV~NG AWAY. ~1ROM MAII~FRAE ., '~he large computer makers' strategl for nrvival •. • Page.7B%- Fvhruary t5. 002• 5..00 ,r-
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AtWLYSTS) AND ROBERT TOLLISON (ECONONIST-VIRGINIA POLYTECHNIC INSTITUTE), AT ABOUT THIS TIME, SEVERAL PROJECT OBJECTIVES EMERGED, THE KEY ONES WERE TO: 1) DEMONSTRATE THAT THE ECONOh1IC REASONING IN "SOCIAL COSTS" ALLEGATIONS IS FALLACIOUS. 2) DOCLPAENT THE SOCIAL BENEFITS, OR VALUE, OF SMOKING, 3) ANALYZE THE ANTI-SMOKING MOVENENT, AND SPECIFICALLY THE ROLE OF THE "SOCIAL COST" ISSUE IN THE MOVENENT, 4) PROVIDE A RESPONSE TO CHARGES THAT UNRESTRICTED SMOKING IS COSTLY TO A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE. 5) SHOW THAT THE "SOCIAL COST" ARGUMENT EXPLICITLY REPRESENTS A THREAT TO CURRENT IIOTIONS OF PERSONAL FREEDOM IN hANY COUNTRIES, OBVIOUSLY THE WORKING GROUP WAS ALSO TO MAINTAIN AS CCIIPLETE A DCCUMENTATION AS POSSIBLE ON THE ISSUE OF SOCIAL COSTS, TWO OF THE EARLY ACTIVITIES OF THE WORKING PARTY WERE THE PRODUCTION OF CHAPTERS I AND II OF YM'.AT WAS TO HAVE BEEN A SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES MANUAL. C_ qH PTER I EXAAtINED THE ECONOMIC ISSUES THAT ARISE FROM THE "SOCIAL COSTS" ARGUPIENTS, AND COVERED TOPICS SUCH AS COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS, PREI+ATURE DEATH, ABSENTEEISM AND MEDICAL EXPENSES. CHAPTER 11 WAS ENTITLED "THE SCCIAL• ROLE OF SPIOKING", THIS IS THE WORK PREPARED BY PROFESSOR FEINHANDLER. THIS CHAPTER PRESENTED THE POSITIVE ROLE THAT SPIOKING PLAYS IN PEOPLE'S LIVES AND 2
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hbST SIGNIFICANTLY WE HAVE IDENTIFIED AND WORKED WITH A NUPIBER OF EXPERTS AROUND THE WORLD UPON WHOM WE CAN CALL, FOR EXAAIPLE, LITTLECHILD SUBMITTED ' TESTIMONY ON SOCIAL COSTS ALLEGATIONS TO A U.S. CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE AND WOODFIELD HAS RESPONDED TO SCCIAL COSTS ALLEGATIONS IN AUSTRALIA, FINALLYi WE HOPE THE WnRK DONE SO FAR WILL BECCPIE OF INCREASING BENEFIT TO PP4AS, I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THE INTEREST AND INVOLVEMENT OF THE TOBACCO INSTITUTE IN THE U.S. RECENTLY I VISITED THE CThlC IN CANADA AND THEY INDICATED A STRONG INTEREST IN SOCIAL COSTS AND SMAKING AT THE W'ORKPLACE, TFIEY WILL BE KEPT FULLY INFORMED OF THE WORK OF THE PROJECT TEAPI, 9
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! 8, THS ICOSI "I\'nRIri OFFICE" 9. • 0 9. ~ 0 10. • • • • 0 The Liggett and F(yers European fieadqt:artere ofIIice In Ilrusssla has beeN rezt.od 'Ay ICOSI fxoia Philip DIorrim ar.A it io hare that a Secretariat operation hac been maintsined since Septcmber last year, A very oapable secreatary, Mra. JoaephinA Shakespeaze,. formrsrly with Liqgett and myers, stayed on to be'tFe•pernane!:t IC08: .ceeratary. Large conference room facilities have been aado out of the existing space and the TCOSn oPorkir.q Parties now regularly ipeet in thc offices. Outside eal•.erirg comes in to provide xo: working lunches. Rn Intesim Office teArr, of Zccoutivee was cntobliahad with ono representative from each of the•seven ICOSI meraber companiea. Regular maeti•Lngs of ti1Ls tean have been heid In Hruascle in order to ensure the mluooth progressing of the proRrarmmws apprmved by the , IIxeautive Coirr_ittee and to provide help and aseiatanee to the heads of the varlouu working parties. On, those weoke when no•etteh meetinq has been held, one a:omber of the tcain 1:ae taken hLu turro to spend a"mannin7 day" In the off,tce to deal with urgent matters. So that the office, Sn addi.tion to the.preaence of its pcrtnZnent secrotary, ie covered at laaet weekly by the Interim Office Team, The Interim Offics will become a pexmanent Sec:retariat unsier thc• aow Secretary Gcnera-l, Julian Doyle, and wit:h its owm permanent sltaf f .
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• , A 1. 2CASZ - International Committee on Smoking issuea REASON AND OIIJECTI'VES • 0 1. The problema and attacks pttoposing restrictions of ssioking ar.d normal octnnerciai activities like advertising and publicity have becone bichly lnternational. Rxasr~slea in ono oour.kry are uaQd• to attack tha in ust~nothQr. No one industry in one country nor any one company car.•wage and win the battie againat this sort of orgsinised worldw+ide attack. The reaouroes• are just not available to collect all the evidonce required nor to prepare counter attacks on a'seAarate basis. The Whole Ina~7Btrv, aoApaflie8 and Trade Aseooiations alike mvst unite with common tor4ets and coneaon 'al+proaehes,. 2. Therefore seven companies, who conduct business in more than one country, decidnd to set wp ICASI. These founder companies ares ' BAT Roemtsma Galtahesr Reynolds Imperial Rothmans Philip Morris O 3. YCOSI's purpose is to establish a forum :or tho exchange of viewo and information on international amoking issues - including smoking and health - kiy coordinating data and information in economic, scientific and teehnieal areas. S 0 0 1,. The gor.eral objective is to boaden the knowledge of mas"rs, consunera anb authorities wor -wde. 9.. 1'his objective will be accompllshed in a large part by providin'g infor.tiation to national and other tobncoo mrade Asaooiations, ond by serving as q sourme of oxpertiae, ~ata analysi¢ and opinion on subjects of interest to the industry and its publics. This inforaation will be disseminated in the form of b'jlletins, position-peperss,+reports and pamphZets etc. 1003717318 0
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• • 0 • 1 6. ACHIEVEML'NTS TO DATE 9WISS RCCERENDOM ... . 1. The Swies branch ot the Good Templars organisation rMlsed auEfioient'6lgnatures to eauso a national direct re9erendvm to be hold on a propasal which, if carried, would eIIfectively ban outright all advertising ana prowotio:e for tobaoco products as vell as for aleohol. rcosr formod a Task Force to prepare for this vote. This Task Force having done a certain amount of very useful work haaded over to the Swiss Asso¢iation of Cigarette Manufacturers (ASFC). The ASPC, Philip Mcrris• as lead CottiianY for b'wi.tmerlpnd and its Swisa Affiliate, Fabriques de Tabac FWuniae, a11 played a major role in the AetLor. Committee of the Organieation fcir Economic Uevelol+Ltent (w'itlocha9taCSrdorunc) - a.ceritral' inaus-zy body through which aal efforts by all pbrtica wore cr.annel.ed. The results were highly auooeesf•.:1, ar.d on Febrcary 18, 1979, the Swl.AS peopla rejected the proposal by a majority of 599. ; POS IT IOV P:11tQe • • • 0 2. Basic Position Papers have bcon agreed and issued as folllowec The P.aqiq 7f;o$1 Position Papar This oovers tl:ese topics: - Nedical Coatroversy - Social Awareneaa, Reaponsibility, and tho - Social AcceptaWlity of Smoking Diecloeurs of Information - The Role of Government in a Free Scciety - Warning ClausoA - League Tablea - Maximum Tar and N_cotinc Limita - Advertising V - Research - Yxoduct Liab_lity w ~ - Cigarette Manusacturor'a Aoaociationa tn ~.i ..~ M}1e fublio Smokina ?oaition Paper Cv ro 0
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THE THIRD AREA IS WHAT WE REFER TO AS THE FEINHANDLER PUBLICATION PROJECT. ESSENTIALLY, IT IS AIMED AT GETTING TWO FEINHANDLER PAPERS INTO PRINT, As MENTIONED EARLIER, FEINHANDLER PREPARED THE t1ATERIAL FOR CHAPTER II - THE SOCIAL ROLE OF SMOKING. HE HAS CONTINUED TO WORK WITH THE INDUSTRY FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, BUT HIS WORK IN THIS FIELD HAS NOT BEEN PUBLISHED, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH FEINHANDLER ON REVISIONS OF TWO EARLIER UNPUBLISHED PAPERS - ONE DEALING WITH THE ANTI-SMOKING MOVEMENT IN THE U.S. AND SWEDEN; THE OTHER DEALING WITH THE SOCIAL ROLE OF SMOKING. THE FIRST HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR PUBLICATION (IN HARVARD MAGAZINE) AND THE SECOND PAPER IS ABOUT TO BE SUBMITTED, AGAIN, WE ARE AIMING TOWARDS GETTING FAVORABLE PWTERIAL INTO THE LITERATURE, THEREBY PROVIDING A QUOTABLE SOURCE. BEFORE GETTING INTO OUR MAJOR PROJECT, LET ME JUST MENTION TWO OTHER AREAS OF ACTIVITY - ABSENTEEISM AND SOCIAL TENSIN. WE ALREADY HAVE A START ON A LITERATURg REVIEW RELATING TO ABSENTEEISM IN GENERAL AND ABSENTEEISM AND SMOKING IN PARTICULAR. SETTING ASIDE THE FACT THAT THE ABSENTEEISM CLAIM ASSLMES THE VALIDITY OF THE UNDERLYING HEALTH CLAIMS, AMONG THE INITIAL FINDINGS IS THAT THERE ARE TC0 MANY VARIABLES INVOLVED TO BE ABLE TO CONCLUDE THAT SMOKING IS A CAUSE OF INCREASED ABSENTEEISM, AMONG THE VARIGUS FACTORS ARE AGE, SEX, FAAIILY RESPONSIBILITIES, DISTANCE FROM WORK, TYPE OF EMPLOYMENT, JOB SATISFACTION, ETC, WE FEEL IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO DO ADDITIONAL DESK RESEARCH LEADING TO THE PUBLICATI,CN OF A REVIEW OF THE LITERATURE WHICH COULD BE USED TO REBUT ALLEGATIONS THAT SMOKItdG IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WORKER ABSENTEEISM. IN THE AREA OF SOCIAL TENSIONS, WE ARE WORKING S•IITH A LAW PROFESSOR AND PRACTICING PSYCHOANALYST TO PREPARE A POSSIBLE PAPER DEALING WITH THE SOCIAL TENSICMS CAUSED BY SPXIKING RESTRICTIONS. i 6
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3. ! 0 • • r 0 XCOSI OLiiGANISATI051 POLICY 1. At the policy level ic the $oard oE ons Gavern. It maeta annually and deci3ae main poicy. Ona olfficer from each mamber co>npan,g sits on the Scard. Philip Morris ie - rapsoaonted by Mr. Hugh Cullman. 2. I7iplementing polioy and day to day decisions is the Executive Coau:f.ttee. :hio Cmonittco accts twoa to three times a year, but lte Saeltbers are. in frequent contact in the intcrim. Mr.R.W.Murray ie the Pk:iliL> Morris r.e:nber, aaaieted by 6ir.J.M.Hartogh. The Chairnan will be Mr. Vheo van Gorkom of Rothmane who tooB over from Mr. K.Btewart Lockhar.t 0HAT}. 3. WA.i\G .L'~OGRAlL~S . At the working level there are Hbrking Parties or Task Forces set up by tho Exao•aiive Conm,tttee to deal. with epeoific taeke 7:21 specitic areaa. Each gYoap works under an appointed Ctairxian and reports oz thair work are made to the EzecuCivp Ccmmittes. At the present tir.e these are the Horking Parties: SAWP (social Acceptability working•Party), Chairman: Mr. D.Ourden, Reyno•ldq EEC Connumer"m, Chdirtn.'ln: Mr. D. von Specht, BAT F.EC Pr.oduct Liability, Chairman: Mr.R.R.Doug],,te, IrVerial STAC LSoicntific and :'echnical Actl.on Group), Chai:man: Dr.ii.R. aentley, I.Varial Covexing the 4th World Conference on Smokitng and Heaita, C4ulirmant b1r.J.M. Hartogh, Philip MOrris SJuC (E!loctq oE advertiFll.ng on cigarottoe), ~ Chairnusnt .Kr.J.M. F.a,etogh, Pitilip Morris ~p F+~ ~ 0
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s 4. a • • 0 • 0 ICOSI'g ROLE AND RELATICNSI•IIP k'ITH NA•TIqNA11 ASSOCIATIpwB 1. SCOSI will only be effective with the full heip,o' a!1 the Tradc Aasociationa and those Aseooiations will not be able to win their battles alone but only with the support of iCOSI. 2. ICOSI's role is, therefore,primarily to•heip and euppou.k. Individual national Associations, where they exist, with inlormation, position paperc, advance warniag of events, lessons learnt fro:a other countries etc. 3. ZCOSI will thus be more involved in world, or perhaps regional atrategy and in aohievi:jgj a truly united infuetry approach on proltilems•affocting or likely to influenee several eountries. 4. ImplcmentaYion of the broad policies or usa of the position papers, atudiea or data w•ill be thc rcaponaibility of the Association or coapaaies in eactv country. They will have to judge the locnl sitaation• and! decide when and how• Ro uae the ammunition that ICOSI has collected. 5. The raw materials for this ammmition and often for the policies themseivsa will coms in many cases ftom the Assoc7.ati,one and companies, as well aa from the ICO5i Working Parties. The impmrtance here is that the flow of inforr•~atLon must be in batk dirocfiona. " - 6. ICOSI nover intpnda to adbpl a public or spokeeman role. This is seen to be tha job of the Asaociation8 nr the companics. O ~ ~ F~
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6 13. 0 0 0 • • 0 0 • PHILIP MORRIS REPRESENTATION `+TIT[iIN IC09I Board of Governors Bxecutive CoranLttee Interim OCiice Membar and Liaieoit k:xncutlve Taak Force covering 4th-Norld Conference or. Smoking end Health SANP (Sotial P.CcepCabillty SVorkinq Party) EEC Conaumeriam EEC P_oaect hi.ability STAQ (9cient1£dc and Technical Action Group) F.AC (E£fecla of Advertiainq on Ciqarottea4 SASiP CountermCaeure8 Programrta Developrdent Mr. Hugh Cullman Kr. R.W. Murray Mr. J.X. He}rtogh atr. R. t4. Corner Mr. J.M. Htrtogh (C.hairman Mr. R.M. Corner Mr. A. Fhist Mr. D.K. Hoel (Lega'. Conaultant) Mr. •L. R•ahn (Cona•ata.t - Scienkilic Jvurnaliat) Mr. J. Morgan Ms. M. Coviagton Mr. G. Beriran (Pro ject Conealtant) Ut, It. C.aiach Mr. R.M. CoY:1er . Mr. b.tc. Hoel (Legal Consultant) Mr. J.DS. t+lockridge (Legal Conaa].tant) Dr. il. Gaiectii Mr. L7.M. Hartogh (Chairntn) Mr. R.M. Corner lls. T.L. Wells Mr. R.M. Cornex• (ProjQCt Leader) 0
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EMPLOY SMOKERS THAN NON-S10KERS. THESE CLAIMS HAVE LARGELY BEEN GENERATED BY A SEATTLE UNIVERSITY BUSINESS PROFESSOR, WILLIAM WEIS, HE ALLEGES THAT SMOKING EMPLOYEES COST THEIR EMPLOYERS UP TO $4,100 PER YEAR MORE TH/UI NON-SMOKERS, As SOLUTIONS, WEIS ADVOCATES A PROHIBITION OF WORKPLACE SMOKING AND DISCRIMINATORY HIRING PRACTICES AGAINST PEOPLE WHO SMOKE, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH PROFESSOR LEWIS SOLMONo WHOSE REBUTTAL OF THE WEIS THESIS WAS PUBLISHED IN THE MARCH ISSUE OF PERSONNEL ADMINISTRATOR, THE MAJOR JOURNAL IN WHICH WEIS WAS PUBLISHED, WEIS HAS REPLIED TO SOLMON'S REBUTTAL IN A SECOND ARTICLE ALSO PRINTED IN PERSONNEL PDMINISTRATOR. NOT TO BE OUTDONE, WE HAVE WORKED WITH LMON IN PRODUCING A COUNTER ARTICLE WHICH HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR PUBLICATION, 4IE SEE A NUMBER OF PRACTICAL EXTENSIONS AND APPLICATIONS OF THE WORK STARTED BY SOLMON, THE ARTICLE PROVIDES A METHODOLOGY FOR HANDLING ATTACKS SIMILAR TO WEIS' WHICH CAN BE PICKED UP AND USED BY NMAS WHEREVER THE ISSUE MIGHT ARISE, WE[S IS BECOMING AN INCREASINGLY QUOTED SOURCE ON SMOKING AT THE WORKPLACE, IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY REBUTTALS. HI3 WORK HAS BEEN CITED IN THE U.K., CANADA AND GEP,MANY AND WAS ALSO REFERENCED IN THE WHO EXPERT CCt-MITTEE REPORT. WE NOW HAVE AN APPROPRIATE CHALLENGE. THE TOBACCO INSTITUTE HAS BEEN VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THE SOLP'ON WORK. THEY HAVE A h4WOR EFFORT UNDER DEVELOPMENT ON SMOKIN'G AT THE WORKPLACE AND SOLMON AND HIS WORK HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL, SOLMON HAS ALREADY ENGAGED [N ONE MEDIA TOUR AND HAS AGREED TO DEBATE WEIS IN PUBLIC AND ALSO TO APPEAR BEFORE APPROPRIATE BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONAL GROUPS. IT IS ENCOURAGING TO NOTE THAT AS THE ISSUE ARISES, SOLMON IS INCREASINGLY BEING CONTACTED BY THE [iEDIA FOR HIS VIEWS, 5
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INCLUDING SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES, WAS CONTINUED THROUGH THE CREATION OF VARIOUS PROJECT TEAAIS, SINCE THE CREATION OF THE SPECIFIC PROJECT TEAt9 ON SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES OUR FOCUS HAS BEEN ON THE IDENTIFICATION OF APPROPRIATE EXPERTS AND CONSULTANTS, MANAGING THESE EXTERNAL RESOURCES CLOSELY, CONTROLLING THE BUDGET AND, HOPEFULLY, PRODUCING USEFUL fMTERIALS, THERE ARE SIX R THAT WE HAVE BEEN CONCENTRATING ON WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO COVER BRIEFLY SO AS TO GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROJECT TEAM'S WORK AND THE APPROACH WE ARE TAKING, FIRST, IN THE AREA OF ECOP,CMICS WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DEVELOP ARGUMENTATION THAT SOCIAL COSTS ALLEGATIONS DO NOT PROVIDE A VALID REASON FOR GOVERNMENTAL INTERVENTION IN THE FREE CHOICE OF RATIONAL CONSUNiERS, DRAWING UPON THE WORK PREVIOUSLY DONE FOR US BY PROFESSORS TOLLISON AND 41AGNER. PROFESSOR LEWIS SOLMON, AN ECONOMIST AND A DEAN OF THE GRADUATE SCHOOL OF EDUCATION AT UCLA, HAS CCMPLETED A PAPER ENTITLED, "GOVER*tENT'S ROLE IN THE DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO SMOKE," THE PAPER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR PUBLICATION TO REGULATION, A JOURNAL PUBLISHED BY THE AI'ERICAP! ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE, IF PUBLISIIED. IT WILL GIVE US ANOTHER QUOTABLE SOURCE, IN ADDITION, PROFESSOR LITTLECHILD HAS CCPIPLETED A PAPER ENTITLED "PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC POLICY RELEVANT TO SMOKING", LITTLECHILD IS HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL ECONOMICS AND BUSIPIESS STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BIR!•SINGHAM IN ENGLAND, His PAPER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE INSTITUTE OF PUBLIC POLICY, ALSO IN ENGLAND, APID THEY HAVE AGREED TO PUBLISH IT IN THEIR QUARTERLY JOURNAL, ~.. THE SECOND AREA IS SMOKING AT THE WORKPLACE AND EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATICN, AN "' -,a INCP,EASING NUMBER OF MANAGEMENT JOURNALS AND PR9IINENT DAILY AND WEEKLY IIEWS ro t•a PUBLICATIONS IN THE U.S. HAVE BEEN REPORTING CLAIMS THAT IT COSTS MORE TO 4
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• • • • • • • • 0 9. THE ICOSI liECRE:ARY GENERAL. MR. JCLIAN ODYLE Mr. Julian Doyle hae signed the terms of agreement with ICOSI and takes up'his appointment as Secretary General on 16th ApriL. liia first engagenent is to attend a 2-day Briefing Seasiori in IIrusaels, April 17 and 28f given by members of the lnterim Offioe. iie wil.l then fly to New York on April 29: to carry out his induction prograr.me in the U.B.A, wl3ick9 ?!r. h'ltt of R.J.R. in arranging. Lt in expected that he will be back in B'rusaela by May 22 and hia next assiqrsnent will be the Trado Associations Conference in surich on May 20 - 23. U-.riny the interim week he will hava the oppoztunity to meat Mr. van Corkcxa, the Chairman of the 3xacatSVa Coueittee. It in planned that, after the 2aricY. Conf.eronce, a pxograrnme of viults to 7>xecutive Conmittee mnlr,9cra in Europe andl their local Trado Anooclations will be arranged for Ju.tiam Doyle. PROGRAMMH I+OR IC652 1SRLEFING OF Til' SECRE^aTd2Y GFVIw4AL BY T9E I4•1'k•RIM OFFIEE PtS;aRER.9 Thio brie8ing will take place at the InQerim Office in Brusaele on April 1T and 18. :`he progtamme in aa fOllawas - Histoay and Raiaon d'E1tre OL ICOSI Review of ceaaitivu areas by ccuntry, M.?..Ii. Hulholland (Gallaher) (1) U.S.A. P.K. Schuler (RJR) (2) U.K. a»o: Dire M.R.H. Mu].holland (Gallaher) W (3) Germany C. vogel (Reemtana) (4) 8witaorland R.G1. Corner (PhA.lip Morrl.6) (5) Benelux C.J. de Voo (Turmac/Rcithmahs) ~ tn - Role of the 7ntornational Bodius R.M1. Corner ~" Is, (e.g. WttO, UNCTAD, ato.). (Philbp Morrie) ~•l CA
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tev:;.u~r..~..~.. ..,,•.:,.::•.......... .......................,...... ..,•. ..,......_... /• . : :n...r~.r.^.o:~: s..r..:w~t7.^.:3;4~t'-'t~, .,.: 1 ~ JJJ 3ohnson, P.R. T11E SOCIA. ,;OS1 Of THC TOE ACCO I'ROGflNI. ,r. Farn tcononics 41 (No. 2) 242-2SS (1965). (U.S.) METHODOLOGY: Marshaltian welfare analysis defininn social.cost as a toss in consumer and producer surplus from departures from competitive equilibriums. ,* 1HESIS: U.S. has monopoly position in world tobacco trade. Price increasing feature of tobacco program transfers incaac to tobacco producers from foreign purchasers. Short run benefit will in long run become more co9tly in terms of lost producer and consumer surplus because rigid acreage controls will result in greater inefficiencies of resources use, and foreign producers will capture larger segments of foreign market. METHOOGLGGY: . Citing previous research London Report (1962). esp. Dolt & Hill. Royal College of Physicians of Calculation based on avg. 1 yr. loss of life by male smoker to age 65; half ll.S, male population smoking and annual payroll of $322 billion in 1963, THESIS: Smoking reduces male life expectancy and, therefore, earnings. Reduction in smoking would increase productive life and earnings far offsetting loss of advertising revenues and tobacco industry wages.
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, ALSO EXAAIINED INFORMAL RULES OF SMOKING BEHAVIOR IN CONTRAST TO REGULATION AND SOCIAL CONFLICT, BOTH OF THESE CHAPTERS WERE PROVIDED TO NMAS FOR THEIP• LOCAL TAILORING AND PRACTICAL APPLICATION, THE WORK REPRESENTED FUNDAMENTAL RESEARCH WHICH WAS NECESSARY FOR OUR 01'iV KNOWLEDGE OF THE ISSUES AND AS A bEPARTURE POINT FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION, DURING THE NEXT FEW YEARS, FRCM 1979 TO 1981, SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES CONTINUED TO BE HANDLED UNDER SAWP. DURING THAT TIME THE WORKING GROUP DEVELOPED AN EXPANDED DATA BASE AND CONTINUED TO WORK WITH VARIOUS CONSULTANTS TO TRY TO REFINE SCf1E OF THE ISSUES. As YOU KNOw, NOT EVERY EFFORT PRODUCED TANGIBLE RESULTS, HCWEVER, WE GOT SMARTER, WE WERE ABLE TO SHARPEN OUR FOCUS AAID, AS I HOPE WILL BECOME APPARENT LATER, WE HELPED IDENTIFY AND DEVELOP EXPERTS. IN P1AY 1981, AS A RESULT OF THE WORKING GROUP'S EFFORTS, THE tRTON APPLIED .RESEARCH CENTER, AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA, HOSTED A CONFERENCE ON THE APPLICATIOtI OF CGST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS TO CCNSUMER POLICY, SEVERAL OF THE CONSULTANTS WITH WHOM WE HAD BEEN WORKING, SUCH AS BERGER, 1100DFIELD, LITTLE- CHILD AND FEItIHANDLER, WERE SPEAKERS AT THE CONFERENCE AND INCLUDED SUBJECTS OF INTEREST TO THE INDUSTf'.Y, THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE WERE PUBLISHED, WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY TOLLISON, AND PROVIDED REFERENCE SOURCES IN SUPPORT OF OUR POSITIONS. IN ADDITICN TO D[.STRIBUTICN TO 41AS AND LEAD CCf1PANIES, OVER 1Cfl REQUESTS FOR COPIES OF THE PROCEEDINGS WERE RECEIVED, VOSTLY FROM UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES. IT WAS FOUND TO BE OF PARTICULAR INTEREST IN AUSTRALIA IN DEALING WITH SOCIAL COST ALLEGATIONS THERE. cn ..,. ~ Ni As YOU KtiOW, IN PIOVEliBER 1981 IPiFOTA6 UNDERWENT A REORCu1U~TiUtJ WHICH RESULTED ~ M^ IN THE CREATIGI OF THE CURP,ENT ADVISORY GROUP, SAW WAS ABOLISHED BUT ITS WORK, a' 3
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` -a- illness and death to smoking is specifically criticized. Another maJor problem is the one of how the estimates should be combined to arrive: at an overall cost and benefit balance sheet. Simple addition of costs is inadequate yet aany leave it at that.. Too many authors ignore the economic Or. in other words, there may be a reallocation of social costs, but likely force may not increase accordingly. It also occurs that the errors resulting from scanty or less sophisticaited research tend to be reproduced in later research, along with many unjusti- . fiabie transpositions of numbers or techniques from one study or country, or time to another. Gori's argument is even more intriguing. It is that if current social, legislative and economic rules remain unchanged, a successful policy of disease prevention has a recessive economic potential as more people will reach and live beyond retirefnent age, The dileama he notes is that the growing Increase in the retired population could result in economic difficulties. Pension funds and social security payments would be required by a greater segment of the population than is now forecast, necessitating increases In taxes to meet future retirement expenditures since the worlt and social gains attributable to tobacco. . no savings. attachment
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Document 74 of 76 po~^iclbr I 134515 crU atr~ i~rummsr rior dx) View the Tiff Images Title: SOCIAL COSTS OF SMOKING - STRATEGIC ASSESSMENT. Author: RJR;NARR D Receipients: DURDEN D;RJR Document No.: 513887693 -7695 Document Type: LETTER Date: 19790110 Request Number: 1RFP102;1RFP103 Possible Requests: 1RFP59;1RFP95;1RFP 105;1RFP I 10 Production Date: 19970131 Boz: RJR3509 Home -"
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-3- This line of argument might be supported by seeking more evidence to advance the argument of Gori and others that, in the long run, the economic costs of reducing disease and delaying death could well outweigh the alleged benefits (what are they, by the way?). We could argue, in other words that there might be a reallocation of costs, but no reduction and possibly an increase. This might keep us away from the problem of arguing the value of human life. i On the benefits side of the equation, a comprehensive statement of the economic benefits of the tobacco industry, especially if it produces harder numbers than the cost side has to date, might support the argument ! that efforts to restrict smoking will harm society more than it will help it, economically. In addition it might help us identify and rally ~ constituents to aid us in fending off unwanted legislation. i i Related to the benefits of smoking, it would be interesting to see ~ whether there is research to support an argument that smoking has some social, stress-reducing and satisfaction benefits which may safely ! be taken advantage of with cigarettes having reduced levels of tar and nicotine. ! As for the need to build constituency relations with groups which have a stake in the continued success of the tobacco industry, I think the argument pretty much speaks for itself and the technique has enjoyed i demonstrated success with other industries including oil and insurance. ~ On the issue of the health effects of smoking, the industry might want j to emphasize the methodological defects, age and other shortcomings I of research attributing higher disease incidence to smoking. Since ; it appears that as far as the public is concerned, this argument is ~ essentially lost, the key audience for this theme might be policy ; makers and the scientific community. i If all this makes any sense, some logical next steps would be to identify I who is doing what at present, expand this to fill in the gaps and work to develop a short-range strategy to help us get through the impact of the latest Surgeon General's Report. David Narr swm
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Subj4ct: Social Costs of Smoking - Date: January 10, 1979 Strategic Assessment To: Mr. Dennis Durden From: David Narr After reviewing the work I gave you Monday, and discussing It with Murray Senkus, it occurs that perhaps some notions regarding strategy may be in order. Keeping in mind that this is based on brief exposure to part of the problem, here they are for what they're worth. The ultimate objective of the industry and its various endeavors, including ICOSI, appears to be to preserve its ability to profitably manufacture and sell cigarettes. There appear to be two basic issues affecting the industry's ability to achieve this objective. One is medical/scientific arguments linking smoking to increased mortality and illness and thus to increasing direct and indirect costs of smoking to society as a whole; the other revolves around public attitudes toward smoking and the implications of those attitudes for public policy initiatives affecting the cost of, or people's ability or willingness to use, cigarettes (advertising restrictions, health education, increased taxes and the like). The objective of anti-smoking forces appears to be to stop or reduce smoking incidence by a combination of strategies which include calling attention to medical/scientific studies linking cigarette smoking to increased rates of illness and death and their consequent cost to society; encouraging disapprobation of smoking by depicting it as harmful, inconsiderate and costly to others, as well as declasse; and, supporting public policy which, at the local level, restricts the freedom of people to smoke when and where they choose, and at the national level increases taxes in order to reduce consumption and encourage industry to develop safer cigarettes. In assessing the success of anti-smoking initiatives it may be fair to say that their efforts to reduce smoking incidence by calling attention to the alleged health consequences of smoking have essentially failed in their ultimate purpose. This may be due to demographic increases as much as anything, but, nonetheless, after a temporary reduction in smoking rates sales recovered and have,I gather, continued to grow until recently. Of course, opinion research which shows that 83% of the public and 75% of smokers link cigarette smoking to increased cancer indicates that the point has been made, even if it hasn't resulted in a change of behavior. ~ AJAIl071MTI77A.r, 7/)O I P1+r`5 ~..T 7
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10 CLEMSON UNIVERSITY APID HAS ENTHUSIASTICALLY ACCEPTED THE POSITION OF EDITOR, HE IS WIDELY PUBLISHED IN THE AREAS OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, HE HAS : DONE SIMILAR PROJECTS IN THE PAST AND WITN HIS PREVIOUS WORK FOR US ON THE "SOCIAL COSTS" ISSUE WE THINK HE WILL BE A GREAT ASSET TO US, 4(HEN COMPLETED THE MDNOGRAPH SHOULD PROVIDE A SOURCE OF QUOTABLE hWTERIAL, SOMETHING WHICH CAN BE REFERENCED AT GOVERNMENTAL HEARINGS, IN DEALING WITH GOVERANIENT OFFICIALS AND IN RESPONSE TO OUR CRITICS. WE ANTICIPATE HAVING ALL THE CHAPTERS FINALIZED AND DELIVERED TO THE EDITOR BY LATE MARCH OR EARLY APRIL, AT THAT TIME WE WILL HOLD A WORKSHOP WITH ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS AND EXPECT THE FINAL VOLUME TO BE PREPARED FOR SUBMISSION TO PUBLISHERS FOUR WEEKS ' LATER, IT WOULD THEN PROBABLY TAKE FOUR TO SIX MONTHS TO GET THE VOLUME REVIEWED AND ACCEPTED BY A REPUTABLE PUBLISHER (ALTHOUGH WE INTEND TO START THE PROCESS OF SEEKING A PUBLISHER BEFORE ACTUAL CCiqPLETION OF,THE VOLUME), THE COST OF CCt•iPLETIPIG THE MONOGRAPH IS ESTIMATED TO BE $114,CO0, I A;4 PLEASED TO REPORT THAT DUE TO THEIR INTEREST IN THIS PROJECT THE TOBACCO INSTITUTE HAS AGREED TO CONTRIBUTE 50 PERCENT OF THIS AP'OUNT, IN SUtM1ARY I FEEL THAT CUR INITIAL INVESTMENTS ARE NOW STARTING TO PAY OFF, SEVERAL PIECES RAVE ALREADY BEEN PUBLISHED, SUCH AS THE WHARTON CONFERENCE ` PROCEEDINGS AND THE SOLMCtt REBUTTAL OF WEIS. SEVERAL OTHER WORKS SHOULD ALSO BE PUBLISHED IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, I.E. THE TWO FEINHANDLER PAPERS, THE SECOND WEIS REBUTTAL BY SCLMON; THE SOIt-CN PAPER ON "GOVERpt1ENT'S ROLE IN THE DECISION 4METHER OR NOT TO SMCKE"; AND LIT'iLECHILD'S PAPER ON "PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC POLICY RELEVANT TO SMCKING," AND OF COURSE THERE IS THE MONOGRAPH . • ~ n ON "St•10KING AND SOCIETY" WHICH WE EXPECT TO BE PUBLISHED LATER IN 1984, ru ru n1 n O O !t .
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OUR FINAL PROJECT, AND BY FAR THE MOST AMBITIOUS ONE, IS A PROPOSED MONOGRAPH (OR POSSIBLY A BOOK) TENTATIVELY TITLED, "SMOKING AND SOCIETY," THE MONOGRAPH WOULD SERVE AS A VEHICLE TO BRING TOGETHER MATERIAL BY EXPERTS ON A VARIETY OF RELAVENT AND RELATED TOPICS UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF AN EDITOR. ONE OF THE UNDERLYING REASONS FOR TAKING THIS APPROACH IS THAT WE HAVE FOUND IT EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH "SOCIAL COSTS" IN PURELY ECONOMIC TERMS, ANY DISCUSSION OF "SOCIAL COSTS" faUICKLY GETS INVOLVED IN HEALTH ISSUES SINCE THE WHOLE QUESTION OF "SOCIAL COSTS" (OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL COSTS) IS BASED, IN LARGE PART, ON HEALTH ALLEGATIONS, IF ONE DEALS WITH IT PURELY IN ECONCMIC TERMS, WITHOUT SCME REFERENCE TO THE UNDERLYING HEALTH ACCUSATIONS, YOU RUN THE RISK OF ARGUING ON THE TERMS OF THE ACCUSERS AND GIVING THE APPEARANCE OF CONCEDING A HEALTH HAZARD AND, AS A RESULT, A COST. THIS IS NOT TO SAY, HOWEVER, THAT ECONOMIC ARGLMENTATION CANNOT BE USED, AS WE HAVE SEEN IN THE WORKS OF PROFESSORS SOLhK?N AND LITTLECHILD. ,THE MONOGRAPH WILL COMBINE SECTIONS ON HEALTH ISSUES, ECONCMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY AND REGULATORY CONSIDERATIONS OF GOVERNMENT, IT WILL ACTUALLY CONTAIN ABOUT 14 CHAPTERS, EACH AUTHORED BY A CREDENTIALLED EXPERT. SEVEN OF THE CONTRIBUTING AUTHORS HAVE ALREADY BEEN SIGNED UP AND WE HOPE TO FIRM UP THE REST IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. THE K Y TO THE PROJECT IS HAVING,THE RIGHT T R, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO WE THOUGHT WE HAD ONE LINED UP - THE ASSCCIATE EDITOR OF THE HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW. HE WAS VERY EAGER TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR PROJECT BUT HIS SUPERIORS AT HARVARD TOLD HIM THEY DID NOT WANT HIM INVOLVED, FORTUNATELY, AT AP,OUND THE SA1'IE TIME, DR. ROBERT TOLLIS~ON COMPLETED HIS SERVICE AS DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF ECONOMICS AND ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF POLICY PLANNING, U.S. FEDERAL TRADE CCt-MISSION, HE IS CURRENTLY PROFESSOR OF ECONCt4ICS AT cn F,. ~ ru ai ta ro ro
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.•, Ultimately, the goal of public policy proposals related to this issue are to reduce health care costs by reducing smoking incidence through some combination of increased taxation, reduced cigarette advertising and more health education; to end the subsidy of smoking and tts health costs by the non-smoking public; and to induce the development of safer cigarettes. KEY CONCEPTS , . area: fR 1966:,, includ'e ex{senditures for;;pre¢~rEtian,~tectidn,; treata~ekrt: Peliabi~'ltat~6n, research, traiRing and capittl~inve46aent in Mdical ''' ;the;;,~.eatinat_irork in,.this Dicedt.costs according tq Rice, adm; di.a the doctors study was the excess number oE deaths attributable to smoking. Direct Costs - • r Attributability - . The idea that a percentage of the cost for sickness and death from lung cancer, bronchitis or coronary heart disease should be attributed to cigarette saoking since studies show the relationship of cigarette smoking to various medical conditions. These studies provide the raw data from which attributability is estimated. Estimates in the.U.K. were based on the mortality experience of British doctors over the period of 1951-61 by applying the death rates of doctors who were non- smokers or smokers of various numbers of cigarettes, to the entire U.K. population. The difference between the number of deaths which ` would have occured had all men been non-smokers and the death rates o,f smokers and non-smokers in the general population as projected from • facilities. lndirec Represent the sum of loss of income due to illness and the present value of future lost income due to premature mortality--usually calculated at a 4X-6E discount rate. They account for abo_ut 8ox of rotaLh.ealth costs. Subsidy - Non-smokers among the public in general subsidize smokers' disability and death costs through government payments for smoking-related medical or welfare costs. SEMINAL WORKS Establishin a link between ci arette smokina_ and variou_s__illnesses or ear y deat : - Surgeon General's Advisory Committee. SMOKING AND HEALTH, Washington, GPO, 1964. . - Doll d Hill and Doll A Peto, 10 and 20-year studies of British Doctors. Royal College of Physicians, London 1962, 1974. c.i oi ~
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c -3- Costina the effects of Smokina: - Canadian Department of National Health and Welfare. THE ESTIMATED COST OF CERTAIN IDENTIFIABLE CONSEQUENCES OF CIGARETTE SMOKING ON HEALTH. LONGEVITY AND PROPERTY IN CANADA in 1966. Research and Statistics Memo, Ottawa, 1967. ~ - Rice, D.P., ECONOMIC COSTS OF CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASES AND CANCER, 1962. - Rice. D.P., REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT, COMMISSION ON HEART DISEASE, CANCER AND STROKE, Washington, GPO, 1965. - Rice. O.P., ESTIMATING THE COSTS OF ILLNESS, PHS Publication 947-6, Washington, GPO, 1966. - Hedrick, J.L., THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF CIGARETTE SMOKING HSMHA Health Report 86 (2) 1971. - Hodgson, T.A., THE ECONOMIC COSTS OF CANCER. In "Cancer Epidemiologyr and Prevention, Current Concepts," 0. Schottenfeld ed., 1975. Policy implications: - - - Garner, D.W„ CIGARETTES AND WELFARE.REFORM, Faoory Law Journal L6 ~ No. 2) 1977. ; - Calabresi, G., THE COST OF ACCIDENTS: A LEGAL AND ECONOMIC ANALYSIS~ - Gori, G.B., and D.J. Richter, MACR9ECONa+1IC5 OF DISEASE PREVENTION IN THE U.S. Science 200 (No. 4346) 1978. The other side: - Public Health Reports COST OF DISEASE AND ILLNESS IN THE UNITED STATES IN THE YEAR 2000, Public Health Reports 93 (No. 5) 1978. , - Wilson, M.J., TNE ECONOMICS AND SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF CIGARETTE SMOKING (8AT) APPARENT COUNTER ARGUMENTS There are two apparent counter arguments to the thesis of social costs of cigarette smoking. One is an extensive criticism, by M.J. Wilson, of the methodology of various studies estimating the direct and tndirect costs of smoking; the other a payer by ~G~~or niLRlchter, confirtned,by,Public, Health Reporjs, indi_cating tliat t er`fi _e ,i;_no real.,saving from reducing the fncidence of'smoktng-related diseases. """ " To suomarize, Wilson maintains that most attcmpts to estimate the social cost of cigarette smoking are seriously inaccurate and that many authors have themselves recognized that it has simply not been possible to estimate some of the components of cost. The method of attributing some portion of I
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. :,'..: .. .. • LY:..:..... ..... •.:::.:L::.qLL6'.'T:•I:J.L.'u: L'C:.t:::.. . ' .. .~.a T..' ^...+.r.r:.a.~.. u ....... .lvS.• .:.L „ Freour, P. ET AL. THE L~~rf OF 1T06ACC0 SMOKING IN FRANCE(.ll` Bull. Acad. Rat. Hed. 160(6): 583-591. 1976 rance METHODOLOGY: Overall cost of each.major disease was estimated then the role of tobacco In each was estimated using a weak case and strong case. For this report only the Strong case of three most prevalent tobacco-related diseases are noted. THESIS: Economic costs of Illness are increasingly important. The costs of a risk factor (Tobacco) are studied because the number of diseases related to tobacco continue to increase and three diseases: chronic bronchiopathies, coronary diseases, and bronchial cancers account for 75% of all costs. • r I . . ., _;. ;.. ..•..:. ;:.. ..~..:~:r.:... . :~.+..---. Shillin9ton, E.R. SELECTED ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES OF CIGARETTE SMOKING. Ginadian Dept. of Nat'1. Health d Welfare, Health Protection Branch. Non-Medical Use of Drugs Directorate, Research Bureau, Monograph Series No. 2. 1977. METNODDLOGY: Citing previous research, using Canadian health statistics and following Rice's methodology for estimating the cost of iliness, the percentage of disease and cost attributable to snoking is calculated using morbidity and mortality rates. Costs are given in 1971 dollars. THESIS: Quantification of some of the destructive aspects of cigarette smoking is necessary, especially in view of increasing health care costs. This is not a cost/benefit analysis. however. ~ - .+,w.w.w......»..»..«...~.......,,.....r...~.....wwo.wn.r.w++... . •
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-2- As As a result of the effective failure of their first strategy, perhaps ! we may impute to anti-smoking forces a decision to emphasize their i second and third strategies which emphasize the social costs/social ! acceptability of smoking and public policy initiatives to restrict smoking or make it more expensive. ! In other words, having failed to achieve their objective through direct appeals to smokers, anti-smoking groups are trying an end run by appealing to society as a whole by pointing out the burden of ~ costs on society as a result of smoking, and the responsibility of ~ society through its elected officials to act to reduce smoking. The question then arises as to what countermeasures might be taken by industry to neutralize anti-smoking strategies and enhance its ability I to achieve its commercial objectives. It occurs that since the anti-smoking forces have taken their argument to the public arena through an appeal to the public interest, that that's where the industry ought to be too. And, like the anti-smokers, we ought to fix our opponents to a debate on an issue of our choosing--the cost/benefit of government policies to discourage smoking-while we i end run to build support in the public policy arena with the agricultural ! conmunity and other beneficiaries of the tobacco industry. Put another way, an effective strategy for the industry might be to i establish counter-arguments to those the anti-smokers use; build constituency relations programs to help us fend off damaging legislation ~ or government programs; and buy time to allow the industry to develop safer cigarettes and the public to accept them, or let public attention shift to other concerns. I realize that some of the points outlined here may have been thought ! of before, and some are undoubtedly being done, but as an effort to view industry strategy as a whole, it may still be useful. I Therefore, to expand on the points outlined above, keeping in mind that ; different themes will be emphasized with different audiences: On the issue of social costs and social benefits of tobacco, the industry might want to consider advancing arguments on a number of fronts. The real question on the social costs side of the equation ; appears to be the marginal utility of government efforts to discourage smoking, and what tradeoffs or priorities are socially acceptable or desirable. In pursuit of this point, more research on the elasticity of demand might be in order as a means of determining the actual or potential impact of reduced advertising, increased taxation or increased restraints in order to enable us to advance an argument that the cost of government programs to the consumer in these areas might not yield comparable benefits in terms of reduced smoking, disease and health costs. Given the public's current mood of dissatisfaction with government effective- ness and inflation, this argument might fall on fertile ground.
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• . • NN NNJti H.1 01 29-08-22° MARY COYINGTON • $E.; SAWP COUNTER,4EASURES DHVELO'PMEtJT SUB-COMM1TTEE PROPOSALS 10 ICOSI EXECUTIVE C.OMMITTEE SCOTPSDALE SEPTEMBER 9/10 1979 cn h'. v N W c.~ 41 0 ~ 1. IP (}fIHE SIB-CU.NMITTEE MEM+BERSN • 1.1. , FOLLOkING THE CANCELLATION' OF' THE FIRST MEETING i,lULY 13): IT WAS AGREED THAT THE COPIPOS'ITION OF THE SUB-C.OKh1ITTEE SKOULD BE: A.) A NUCLEUS: OF' SAHP MEMBERS. • ffi) NON-SA4fP REPRESENTATI.VES OF ICOSL MEMBER COMPANIIES. AND REP- RESENTATIVES' OF NATIONAIi MANUFACTURER'S ASSOCIAYIONS MAY'SE IAVITED AS CnNSULTANTS AS: DEEMED NECESSARY.. • C) SIhfILARLY. 'OUTSIDE' CONSULTANTS NiAY ALSO BE NIREDl. 2. OBI .TtvKS, OF THE S 7jD-COH_PI-ITTE£ 9 , 2.1. T0 PREPARE' PROPOSALS FOR AN ACTIDN PLA1i TO DEVELOP SOCIAL ACCEPTAB[LITY' COUNTERi'1EAS;URES THAI CAN BE USED BY NATI019AL MAtaU- FACTURE•R'S- ASSOClAT10N. 2.2. THE SUB-C0I4NJTTEE FIRST MET ON AUGUST 7TH: IN BAUSS•ELS AND: • FIRST PROPflSA•LS HERE DISCUSSED AT THE FULL SAtilP SUNFIER MEETING ON AUGUST 1R115 AT SKOCKERw1CK HOUSE.- I • . • ~ .....;. . `"'~. ! ^ '~ °i s ~ ~ , ~ 'M ~~! 0 1 .. ~Kh~tu! lu
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• • • m . • BUDGET (TENTATIVEY ASSOCIATIONS 1= 1. j2AO YEAR OF THE NO'N-SLICKER DEVELOPING CAI•fPAIGNS, A'CTI:DNS- ANU, MATERIALS USE OF CONSI3RTANTS I HOLDING 1tORKSHOP MEETING HITHINATIONAL a0.00.a 5. INTERNATIONAL PASSIVE SMOKING SFFIINAR 35b .00u DLRS 50 .000 ki. „CON![jNjfING FRO_GRAM •'YEAR Q,E THE NON-SMOKERS" THE WORKSHOP WILL OHLY BE THE FIRST'STEP. AREAS FOR FURTHER DEVELOPHEHT EXPECTED', FURTHER CREATIVE [:DEAS. INCLUDING CEGAL FEES.- 80..000 0 • • 5-. RESERVE FOR CONTINGEf{CIES: AND AD KOC ACT)0l,5, (HE DO NOT KHON 1(HAT REQUESTS FOR FURTHER~ ACTION MAY RESULT FR'DM PIEETINGS WITH NATIONAL ASSOCIATIONS•., OTHER AD HOC ACTIOiiS MAY BE REQUIRED) 30•000 50.0.0A0 REGARDS. R. CORNfR 0
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• • • • 0 ! Mr. Charles A. Tucker Page 4 October 81, 1979 unearthed. They are apparently emphatic about their good and long-standing relationship with Mr. Db'11. Tuck,.after our conversation today, I spoke again with Don Hoel about WHO participation and whether allowing this means that the symposium will not present just one side, i.e. the industry side. Don indicated that by design the Verband aims to make the symposium "more than one-sided", but with some degree of control.* I also took the occasion of a meeting with Frank Colby this afternoon to let him know about the symposium plans so far. He reacted against the ".Watergate" mentality of the Verband, ques- tioned the ability to control the WHO involvement and had pretty etrong reservations about Gb'sta Tibblin. While he, too, agrees with the concept of the symposium, the initial proposal did not appeal to him. I further suggested he contact Don Hoel directly to get the names of the scientific people being considered. Dr. Colby also expressed an interest in discussing this further in mid-November when he returns from a trip. Perhaps you and I should meet with him jointly and also consider expanding the meeting as appropriate. kzt~k c ar , arcotu o R~M/gr co: Mr. 6. S. Witt, III
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i 86')79-?82 (1971). /U. S. & Canad;) METHODOLOGY: . .._ .,n,,,o. nOrin>i heaith Rept. l Citing previous research esp. Canadian rept. of National Health & Welfare Research Memo (1967) and U. S. Public Health Svc. Reports. Rice, D.P. Phs.Publ. 947-6. Applied Procedures & Basic Data From Canadian Study to . U.S.yMultipiying by 10. ~ THESIS• Sickness and death caused by or contributed to by smoking drains the economy by diverting scarce health resources from other needs and by reducing national economic production through early death and excess morbidity. Four diseases: Lung Cancer, Coronary Heart Disease, Chronic Bronchitis and Emphysema: and fires are examined for their econoaiic costs. Costs are classified by: -Cost of providing medical care , -Income lost because of illness -Future income foregone because of death -Value of property lost in fires caused by sanking ,. .~~...~ r . ,. : ' . . . :~:•:..: - . . . . .: British Dept. of Health b Soc. Sec': SMOKING AND HEALTH: A STUDY OF THE EFFECTS OF A REDUCTION IN CIGARETTE SMOKING ON MDRTALITY AND MDRBIDITY RATES, HEALTH CARE, SOCIAL SECURITY EXPENDITURE AND PRODUCTIVE POTENTIAL. London 1972 METHODOLOGY: Citing previous research in U.K., U.S. and Canada and deriving attributability factors for relation of smoking to lung cancer, bronchitis and coronary heart disease. Derives mortality and morbidity costs from limited U.K, surveys of hospital beds, GP and pharmaceutical svcs: THESISr A11 major studies show that cigarette smoking is associated with increased mortality from a range of conditions, especially lung cancer, bronchitis and ccronary heart disease. Percentages of all deaths from these diseases are attributable to smoking and can further be associated with high health care .costs, and sickness and social security payments. Both types of expenses could be reduced if smoking Incidence decreased. However, extended life due to reduced smoking might mean larger retirement pensions, offsetting the savings in health care and insurance. :I.........~~.~ .,.....~•-.t.r!w,...t.i.t•.R-..................... T.• 1"ew.+A+.-'a!.. h.{!i,M'..Ii.11.i+:!!nla%i•is4 Vll:1 tlJ'. ..~.. .~.. ..,.... ...w.r..-...n. ..'S..LiM+.... . v.. .~... .r/:' _-YN,w "i..ri..ww•~b. . r r. w..a~.'.
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• 11. • • • • • • • • FUTURY. NLAN$ 1. After having initiated a numbor of studies eoncexnir.g publia smoking (aooial aocoptability) , SAtVP was given the task mf organising thc !irs: cd:vference of Trnde Associations. This will take place in Zurich, Switzerland. May 20 - 23, 1979. Invi.e,A will be Trade AsaocSa"or.s fron Australia, Helgium, Canada, Ireland,•Netherlands, Switzerland, United Ringdon, USn, West Oer:eany, Denmark, Norway and Finland. The object of tho conference is to have a tull exchango of ideae parti- eularly with. rcgard to social accepl.abilfity problema, The agenda has been f,lanned to involve the Trade Aoaociationa aa auea as possibia l,n the prograituae and therefore riake them feel part of the industry'a intmrnational efforta. But also to maphasire tthat tNaey, not IEU3SA, are roaponcible for Ind~uatry activities at the nacAoaal lavel, 2. Within'SAWP a:lew yroup hus been formed wlth the awle purpose of developing nsw counternreasures. Mr. R.lU. Corner of Philip Norris in the .Proj'oot. IRadcr andi this progxastae w311 be pressented and ctiscuaacd at the LurLch Conferencc. 3. SAWP, under Cccrge 3crtn ns ao Project Consultant i also preparing an inlportant new floobAl Costs/Social Benefits Study. 4. The Task Foraa oovoring thc 4th world ConCerence On Smoking and Health, ander the ~Caair:(mnship of !•x. J..Lttartegh of Philip• Morris, is plenning to monitor aad conbat on the Spmt the strong propaganda expected to bo g©ncral.ef at this ConPet,cince, which takes p.Lace in 8tookho;an, Sweden, in Jnae ar.d is aponoored by the jrTorld Health. organication and th,e Swet7Ksh Healta Authorities. Tha hrogramme oi the organiaers in boing analysed aad ponitl•on papers written on• the nain ambjeoCa. A sub-group has beern nstabliahed to EeaL with the tolY-c of the Third wosld. inancdi.ately prior to tfte -Cor.ference baeio linfmrmation w1.11 be sent to all Trade Aesooia- ttoas. During its course they will be kept conk.inually informed. And Iefterwards an account of the proceedings s,•dttr analyses will be circnlatod in both a Cull and a shortcr versl,on. 100371,7328 c.n • i, J nti trJ ~ J 0
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':'Sreith, D. J. SMOKING, TC 9UROEN TO INDUSTRY. Safety su( for. UK (May 1977). HETH000106Y: Citing previous research esp. Doll & Hill and Doll & Peto, 10 and 20-year studies of British doctors. :. ,.. ~. THESIS: ,.. . Various studies support the proposition'that cigarette smokers have shorter lives than non-smokers and that smoking-related diseases are important causes of death and disability. Economic costs of premature death and disease attributed to smoking are calculated. , HETHODOLOGY: Cites legal precedents, legal theory, esp. G. Calabresi on The Cost of Accidents, and previous research on medical costs of smoking, incl. H r c. THESIS: Cigarette smoking causes sickness and death. The economic costs of smoking- induced diseases are measurable and large. Presently, a substantial and growing part of the economic costs of smoking are borne by non-smokers among the puhlic in general who subsidize smokers disability and death costs through govt. welfere payments. The public shouldn't bear any portions of these costs. Rather, the burden should be shifted to smokers and cigarette manufacturers through civil adjudication to permit welfare agencies to recover medical costs and transfer payments from cigarette manufacturers; or a safety tax to Induce manufacturers to produce safer cigarettes while providing the means to pay for smoking-related medical costs. Ultimately, the goal of these proposals is to end the subsidy of smoking and its health costs by the public, and induce development of safer cigarettes, ~IE4P~'{~{{~+T(a~ ~'V.Y!~ I
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• • 0 • i • C) SOCIAL CaSTS/SOCIAL BENEFITS POSITIVE ECDNOMIC IFIPACT OF THE INDUSTRY (E.G: CANADIAN IMPACT S.TUDY) ESTABLISH THE COSTS-OF 1tITRDDUCI'NG OR ENFORCItiG LEGISLATIOR D) DISCREDIiTtNG THE ANTIS DEVELOP FOR C1SSEl91NATGON PRDF'ILES, CONFLI'CTIN6 STATER?IENTS, E%AIRPLES OF INTOLERANCE, ETC• 3.2. . . I 1SSY iIN + IDENTIFICATION OF l1HOM TO LOBgY A'ND METHODS T0i BE USED.- LOBBYIN6 NOT CONFINED TO, THE POLITICAL ARENA, BUT T0 INCLUDE A L L DfiCI- S1DN TAKERS OR OPINION FORPIERS OH BESTH'ICTIVE NEASORES.. IT HILL ALSO NAV•E TD INCLUDE LOBBYING OF INTERNATfON/PIUHTINATIOtaAI BO'DIES AND ITS C44RDINATIOH• j._2.3•. AL't_1F,i ToBACCO-FAI7I LY NON-TOBACCO FAMILY' SC.I ENT 1 STS/JI ED I CA L 70' IDENT'1FY T8E• WIDEST POSSI9LE LIST OF ALLIES, WITH DETAILED REASONS FOR SO DEF-ININ6 THEih (E.G. COMMON FEARS, ECUHOFIiC 1NTEREST, POLITICAL ATTITUDES, 'EUDANGERfD SPECIES', COHNON`. PROBLENS)• TO ASSIST NATIONAL ASSOCIATION& Ta IDENTIFY NEHI PDTENT'IAL ALLIES NOT YET DEVELOPED. TIl1S WOULD BE FOLLOUED' WITK IDEAS ON BEST APPROACHES FOR RECRUITMEHT' OF ALLIES AND POSSIBLE PRIORITIES BETWEEN THENl. I
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0 • • 0 • INTER-COMPANY CORRESPONDENCE k.J.Rcynotrh, i utmeco tntcrn;laonai, Inc. • • . •'••1• . • ..: n°~n° • October 31, 1979 T0s Mr. Charles A. Taoker SOBJECTi ICOSI - International Symposium on Public Smokinq The following will cover the information we discussed earlier today as well as some subsequent refinements. Most of the information was reported by Don Hoel. The Steering Committee of the S,bWP Countermeasures Sub-committee met in Brussels on October 25, 1979, to discuss the proposed International Symposium on Public Smoking. The Steering Committee participants weres Richard Corner - PME Julian Doyle - ICOSI Christian Vogel - Reemtema Colin Rnowles - Imperial Don Hoel - Shook, Hardy & 8acon Verband Representative The identification of the international organization targeted as the symposium "sponsor" is still considered very confidential. Therefore, until publicly revealed, we should maintain this confidentiality. The international organization ("I0") is a very well-known, well respected organization headquartered in Geneva, active in health education, preventive med.icine, atc. It has a number of national affiliates, with the German one being the strongest. The "IO" supports WHO educational programs and there has been some cross-fertilization of "I0"and WHO personnel. In the past, the "I0" has worked closely with the WHO on World Health Day. The German affiliate of the "I0" has been responsible for design- ing the official World Health Day poster - "Smoking or Health - Your Choice". The Verband has worked with the German affiliate to get a"neutral design" in the poster. The German affiliate is a "sect" organization, i.e. run primarily by one person, Mr. Db11 (a former German banker). He is the tf 1~:'f rlaratLtl~.a ..,
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.l„, Oil C , J , Subjeet: Social Cost of Smoking: Date: January 6, 1979 Literature Review To:• Mr. Dennis Durden Froln; David Narr\ Attached is the literature review you requested on the social costs of smoking. In addition to those items we picked up Tuesday afternoon, I ordered another packet of materials which seemed promising after reviewing the bibliography, and so reviewed some 53 items for this summary. I rejected most items as not germane to the purpose of this project and selected 12 papers for sumnary. FORMAT This report consists of three parts: A matrix which itemizes Direct and• Indirect social costs attributed to smoking; a set of file cards which briefly describes the methodology and thesis, or major line of argument, of each-paper selected; and this memo, which sunmarizes the general argument linking smoking to increased social costs; identifies some key concepts and seminal works; and sumnarizes apparent counter-arguments to the social costs ~ argument. . TME ARGUMENT LINKING SI1oKfNG;.TD.1.N_cREASiFD SDCIAL CDSTS „ - ::.s: a:...:: ......_ . diseases are attributable to smoking and can further be associated with direct and indirect health care costs including the cost of medical treatment during illness and the cost of lost productivity and future income due to illness and early death. These costs are measurable and large, far offsetting the benefits of tobacco use from farm and manufacturing income and sales taxes. Moreover, the economic costs of tobacco-related diseases represent the value of foregone alternatives. Resources could be reallocated to other sectors of the economy and there would be more healthy individuals to enjoy them. These economic costs are increasingly important, especially as the cogt.Af medical care is arowing faster than the economy as a whole and because the government assumes arger ari8la"rge;F"proportions of the nation''s medica] bill. This m a,na..tpa ociety,a.s_ a whole is paying the_b.i.l_1 for tobacco-related l essand that a ubstantial and •qrow~ ng pa"rt of the econ- oc co`s£'s of smoking are borne b nq•r~•;mokers among .the_public.who subsidize smokers' _ disablltty h eatb.costs through governm.ent wetfare oavments . This burden should be shifted to smokers and cigarette manufacturers through ~ legal means or legislation to permit welfare agencies to recover medical costs and transfer payments fram cigarette manufacturers and smokers; or ~ through a safety tax to induce manufacturers to produce safer cigarettes while providing the means to pay for smoking-related medical costs. __ All in-,~or stutlias-iho+v Eliat c#gasleftta #figkirtp 1;_assDeiiiLad-+.wdtb idrreASid sickness and mortality from a range of;eonditfons intlvdfng'lung cancer, bronchitis and coronary heart disease. Percentages of all deaths fromlthese 11JH1 fo/1M iW.nM. 7/70 F: ...., . ..' !:~ _1~~ .~ :.1Y13~~ t~i rn
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- ..-.~ .~.I- ...V.~aM.r.' 1 Il`~ •Hodgson. T. A., Jr. THE ~ OMIC COSTS OF CANCER. In: '• er Epidemiolo y ~` and Prevention, Current CoPh.epts', 0. Schottenfeld, ed. (1975). Pp. 29-59. ?U.S.) METIlODOLOGY: Rice model of direct and indirect costs 6f disease; discounting present value of future earnings; data from professional activity study of Comnission on Professional and Hospital Activities of the American Hospital Assoc.; \, estimates from Mational Disease and Therapeutic Index. THESIS: There are economic costs of disease which can be calculated. These costs are the value of foregone alternatives and inciude direct costs, which represent resources which could be allocated to other uses in the absence of disease; and indirect costs, which are the value of idle resources and cost output.. As for cancer, direct costs are proportionally smaller (18%) than tndirect costs (82%) but are increasing faster (168% to 62% between 1962 and 1970). ` Overall, the total economic costs of cancer increased relative to GNP between 1962 and 1970. - ~T~-'lillfln-~.~ 9-N- Freeman ET AL. ECONOMIC COSTS OF PULMONARY EMPHYSEMA: IMPLICATIONS FOR POLiCyY ON SNOKING & HEALTH. Inquiry 13 15-22. 1976 METHODOLOGY: Data was obtained from published and unpublished sources of the National Center for Health Statistics and Lea Associates. NCHS data were collected by the 1970 Health Interview Survey of 37,000 U.S. honseholds which collected data on chronic respiratory diseases and smoking habits of the population. Transfer payments, lost tax revenues, training, special diets, relocation, industry R& 0 were excluded from the study. National economy was presumed to be at full emipioyment. Present value of future earnings estimated by Rice's method, using 6% discount. THESIS: Although a cause and effect relationship has not been established, cigarette smoking has been implicated as the most important etiological factor in pulmonary emphysema. Total direct and indirect cost of this disease to society in 1970 is estimated to be 51.525 Billion. Of this total, direct costs represent 12% and indirect costs 88%. This study offers no policy recom- mendations. CrC1iN•ilifJwrai'WY,LIYnL:4: {,:/I,RWVFWiM1.h,./.,MYW1~Y/rAM~M\JI~'1/~~?~~ I
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I ICOSI Board of Governors Meeting Lordon, Hay 29, 1980 Page 2 June 6, 1980 was concerned that one of the ICOSI priorities proposed by PMI -"to design and recommend strate- gies and action plans for use by member companies, NMA's and others" - would infringe upon the sovereignty of the NMA's. There was concern that we would be imposing ICOSI upon the NMA's. It was subsequently agreed by the Board that the quoted phrase would be changed to "design and provide resources." ROTNMANSi Took the most restrictive and conservative view regarding the role of ICOSI and the Secretariat. They felt ICOSI should not stimulate NMh's but merely provide information. There was concern that if ICOSI were too strong and active, it would "start a war" which it would be unable to figure out how to fight. It was felt that ICOSI should "go underground" and try to convince and support out, consumers, not governments. REEMTSMA: 0 • • Agreed with the concept of support for the NMA's but felt that this alone was insufficient. More and more international attacks on the industry were coming up an on y national approaches would not be sufficient. They felt the need to develop an organi- zational structure that was adequate to meet the dangers we are facing (international organiaations/ international issues). They also felt the need to work through third parties and allies to help our international fight.' R.J. REYNOLDS: If ever there was a time and need for ICOSI it is now. We should go back to the original objectives of ICOSI which have been twice approved. The attacks are growing, the anti's are getting smarter, they are organized and they have a plan. The anti's are well-funded, and are influencing the medical/scientific community and opinion leaders. At the same time, we have one of the strongest industries in the world and we need to do something. ICOSI does not have to be a public organization, engaged in PR activities, but we need a strong person to take us forward and support *I
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Mr. Charles A. Tucker Page 3 October 31, 1979 • • • to have an appropriate publication issued on the conference and its results, which could then serve as a good source of quotations for use with the EEC, national governments, etc.t - maintaining the WHO cooperation so as to "neutralize" the WHO on the issue of Public Smoking/HealthJ « to get as much press coverage as possible that could be read by opinion leaders. At this stage, the blanks have to be filled in concerning partici- pants. There is only a skeleton program which would propose to include some of the following: - - - Welcome of "I0" Secretary General; Welcome of Austrian Health Minister; WHO welcomeF WHO speaker, Gb'sta Tibblin, speaking on "Social Conflict as an Instrument of Health Politics" (probably to be considered as an "anti")= Peter Berger/Horst Richter speaking on sociological aspects; a Dr. Grandjean= , Drs. Vallentine and Shievelbein. Mary Covington and BAT have received reports on the plans from Don, and other ICOSI members will be briefed by the respective representatives in the Countermeasures Steering Committee; w therefore, both SAWP and ICOSI are covered. ~ . ~ At the December 10 and 11 SAWP meeting in London, the plans will r" be presented for a decision as to whether or not to take it to the Executive Committee. Christian Vogel and the Verband will j try to flesh out the budget and program for the SAWP meeting. If SAWP approves, then the Steering Committee will meet on December 12 in London to put together the proposal for the Executive Committee by the end of the year. Returning to the question of sponsorship, the Verband feels there ~~ is a minimal chance of the real support for the Symposium being a /.~ J O v N
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ICOSI Board of Governors Meeting London, May 29, 1980 Page 3 June 6, 1980 the NMA's. The NMA's must be the spokesmen, but we can help them by generating the necessary resources. ICOSI per se should not fight a head-to-head battle. - PMIs There are issues and organizations that transcend national borders, and we have to find ways to handle them. ICOSI also has to find ways to fulfill roles that the NMA's cannot. Conclusionst 1. We need to develop resources sufficient to support the NMA's. 2. Eventually we have to find ways to influence international organizations and international issues. *3. The membership of ICOSI should be expanded, not necessarily this year. *As Chairing Company, PMI will prepare a proposal for the October meeting of the Board, concerning expanding the ICOSI membership. Secretariat Staffings It was decided that the new Secretary General should be allowed to choose a Deputy after he has an opportunity to determine the needs. ICOSI Contributions; PMI will prepare, well in advance of the October Board meeting, a new basis for allocating membership contri- butions. ICOSi's accounting firm, Arthur Anderson, will be used to develop an appropriate formula. it was made absolutely clear that regardless of the allocation of expenses th till remain equality of vote among member companies. Selection of Secretary General: While the names of several individuals from member com- panies were discussed, no decision was reached. Instead, the search would be somewhat widened by looking for some- one from within the industry generally, i.e. to include , retirees, former employees, etc. Member companies are to --/-,~ send nominations to PMI by June 9; two days later PHI will • ~....»....................-,.«~.....-......-......~~~-....+.........n»n-....... .
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ICOSI - Social Cost/social Value Page 4 December 17, 1979 2 The SAWP concluded that the draft paper would be sent to all associations,with the supporting papers going to the TI, $T-'ie TAC in the U. X. and the German Verband. George Berman would then visit all three associations to explain the material and discuss with them how they could use/adopt them according to their needs. George would then report on some conclusions at the January workshop and would also ask all associations to review the current paper and come to the'rworkshop prepared to discuss it and indicate their needs and suggestions for possible use. l~ c ar J. Marcotu o • / 0 RJM/gr r
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INTER-COtAPl.NY CORRESPONDENCE R.J.RoVnotds Tobacco International, Inc. June 6, 1960 0 TO: Messrs. Wm. D. Hobbs E. A. Horrigan, C. A. Tucker Jr. S. B. Witt, III FROM: R. J. Marcotullio REs ~ ICOSI Board of Governors !leeting, London, May 29, 1980 ~ • • • 0 • 0 The following will relate highlights of and major decisions taken at the emergency meeting of the ICOSI Board of Governors held in London on May 29, 1980. • Future role and priorities of ICOSI The Chairing Company (PMI) set the tone for the meeting by re- questing brief presentations by Gwynn Hargrove, on staffing and location problems for ICOSI, and by Jules Hartogh, concerning the nature of the threat facing the industry. Copies of both presen- tations are attached. On the basis of Hargrove's presentation, the Board agreed that consideration should be given to relocating the ICOSI Secretariat to a more appropriate location, including one that might be more suitable to the new Secretary General when selected. Hartogh's presentation produced the most fundamental and major discussions cn of the meeting, i.e. what ICOSI should be and what it should do in the future. - BATt Wanted to see more leadership and initiative coming from the Secretariat, but added that this did not mean ICOSI was to have a public role. Instead, ICOSI should be active by providing National Manu- facturers Associations (NMA's) with the resources they need. IMPERIAL: Felt that ICOSI could act only through NMA's. It ~ J n1 0 0 N . W F ~ 0
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ICOSI - Social Cost/Social Value Paper Page 2 December 17, 1979 • 0 ` 0 DISCUSSION George Berman indicated that he had received several comments concerning the economic portion of the Social Cost/Social Value paper and that, in essence, they said the paper was needed, con- tained good material, but that it was difficult to see how it would be used (which is not to say that it is useless). George said that there is some directly usable material that can be used as countermeasures. While we can now see the battlegrounds (in- cluding areas of vulnerability), it does not mean that we are ready to do battle. The question remains as to whether we have the foundation for what can be done, i.e. how to realize the potential that we have. George feels there is provided the basis for a monograph which could be published by a reputable organiza- tion such as the American Economic Institute - specifically con- cerning a discussion of the cost of smoking. He also felt that it would be possible to have a conference on the cost/benefit analysis of r~e~ u~l_a~ti~on_, not necessarily related to smoking. Apparently it-is ~e~that there has not been adequate treatment of many aspects of cost/benefit analysis of regulation. There are three areas where we could look at the data and go further, provided that we be careful in avoiding "troubled waters." 1. Absenteeism - rather than saying absenteeism is not a social cost, we should be leading to a conclue on that absenteeism is not caused by smoking. 2. A review and critique of premature death statistics. 3. smoking as a cost of excess medical expense - to show that smokers do not use more medical services than non-smokers (that smoking does not cause excess medical cost). Imperial Tobacco raised two questions about the current paper. First, there was a question of its practical use. Second, their lawyers raised some concern that the impression is left that there is almost an acceptance of the admission of various allegations about smoking and health. They felt that there should be a strong indication in the introduction that it is an examination of economic ar uments and in no way is to be considered an examination of Tit e`' - sc ent c evidence. They pointed out that only on page five is this aspect touched on for the first time. Another consideration is whether or not the paper will add visibility to the issue of social costs of smoking. Julian Doyle said that we need to avoid being academic and we have o to determine the paper's utility. He said the question we are o a ~ 0 m
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Mr. Charles A. Tucker Page 2 October 31, 1979 • • financial/administrative head of the German affiliate. It also appears as if Mr. Db11 and the German affiliate are pretty much also the effective head of the "I0"r therefore, when dealing with the German affiliate, one is pretty much dealing with the entire "i0". While the "I0" is virtually unknown in the U.S. and outside of Burope, it does have a good reputation and, as mentioned, has a certain connection with WHO. Some of the activities of the German affiliate have included work on •prevention of tooth decay, high blood pressure, influenza vacci,nations; better sight, etc. Mr. Db11 has been aprroached about the Verband giving money to the "I0" for the Symposium. However, according to the Germans, any money given or sponsorship by the industry can not be made public: - the Verband does not want attributiont • • • - the "10" can not allow it or it would lose WHO money; - the Verband feels it would not be able, to get the scientists they want on the program if industry sponsorship is public. The Verband is firm about non-sponsorship and added that if ICOSI did not want to proceed with the Symposium, they would not do it themselves. Don Hoel personally feels it would be better to make disclosure public. Administratively, the money for the Symposium would go to the "IO", which would set up the meeting. A normal fee would go to the speakers, plus transportation/hotel expenses. The "I0" would invite the program participants as well a's the audience (scientists, sociologists, lawyers, health bureaucrats, selected journalists). However, the Verband would structure the invitation list and the conference, and it would go out as such under the auspices of the "I0". The SAWP Countermeasures Steering Committee decided that quality was more important than timing (i.e. to "scoop" the WHO activities for Non-Smoker of the Year). Therefore, they recommend not to try to run the Symposium before April. If it is to be run at all, it would be scheduled for the fall of 1980, with the location proposed for Vienna (UN Building). There are three primary goals to be achieved by -the proposed Symposiums N 0 0 a ~ ~ 0 V M
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• • • • • • COUNTFRMEASLIRES_BAS£D ON THE SO[ I!41 I',,QST,S , T!DY 5•1. TT. IS' PROPOSED THAT COUNTERHEASURES BASED 09 SUIIS VERY IIMPORTANT STUD7 SHOULD BE THE SUBJECT OF A• FURTHER WORKSHOP TYPE. MEETING TO BE BELD NITH'THE ASSOCIATIONS IN THE FIRST HALF-OF NEXT YEAR. 5.6.• THE DEVELOPFIENIf OF APPROPRIATE C'OUNTERNEASURES H11:L BE CARRIED OUT'IN CLOSE CONSULTATION WITN GEORGE'BERmAN WRO LEADS THE SOCIAL COSTS STUDY AS A CONSULTANT TO SAWP. I$TERNATIOHAL PA'SSIVE SM4K1N1G SEMINAR 5.9. Afi THE ICQSI MEETIRG IN LAUSANNE IN NOVEMBER 1911, SAW? WAS REQUESTED TO EXPLORE;THE FEASIBI'LITY OF HOLDING AN INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON PASSIVE SNlOKIHG• A REPORT WAS PREPARED DATED FEBRIIARY 1ST 1978. SINCE TNEN THERE HAVE BEEN A NUFIBER OF COMMENIIS AND SUGGEST'fONS IN FAVOR OF HqLDIN6 SUCH A SEMINflR. 5.10.. THE WORKSHOP ON 'ENV]RONHENTAL TOBACCO SHOKE EFFECTS ON THE NON-SMOKER' TOOK PLACE 11 BERMUDA MARCH 27-29, 1974., IT WAS; ORGANIZED BY RAGNAR RY.LANDER,. GENEVA UNIV.ERSITY TOGETHER WITH MORTON CORN, PITTSBURG UHIVERSITY AND KAYE H..KILBURN, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI. THE WORKSHOP WAS SUPPORTED 81' GENEVA UNIVERS171Y THROUGH A GRANT FROFt ^FA&RIQUES DE TABAC REUNIES', NEUCWATEL, SWITIER'LAND. THEN THERE WAS THE'BAVAR.IAN ACADEMY SEMINAR ON 'PASSIVE SHOKING. IN THE WORKPLACE' HELD I:N MUNICH, MARCR 31ST AND APRIL ]1ST 1977. THE V.ERBAND IN PARTICULAR HAS SUGGESTED A NEW SEMINAR AS A FOLLON UP TO THIS ONE. AND THE IDEA OF'A FDRTHER SEMINAR HAS A'LS{I BEEB BROUGHT' UP IN THE EEC CDNUHER:ISM TASK FDRCE. 5.11. 1'N VIEW OF THE PRIMiE IHPORTANCE OF THE PABSIVE SMOKING ISSUE WITHIN THE'WHOLE AR'EA OF SOCIAL ACCEPTABILI]:Y, AND THE FACT THAT IT IS CONSIDER-ED TO kE ONE OR THE INDUSTRY'S "BL•ST. CASES", WE PROPOSE THAT A NEVI SEMINAR BE ORGAN,IlED TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE EI1D OF 1900. N W
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0 ` 0 al' s a 0 readership: -1021al Functions nf To~,p~ c~ -for professional rea-~ership. -for lay readership. --Smoking Restrictions in Society. History. T rmal regulations. -for professional readership. -for lay readership. When these four manuscripts have been developed further, we will work out a list of potential media, and begin sub- mitting the manuscripts. cn UJ -Ij RY W W m 0 •
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Progress Report March 17, 1980 r'm ir::- lvN!n'UC?:,3, 0
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ICOSI Board of Governors Meeting London, May 29, 1980 Page 4 June 6, 1980 circulate a list of nominations, companies will rank the list and from that ranking a "short list" will be drawn and interviews commenced. Before a final decision is made, the leading candidate(s) will be seen by at least one Board representative from each company. Julian Doyle Severances Rather than draw up any separate severance agreements, it was decided that this matter would be handled by ful- filling the terms of the original agreement. Secretary General Advisory Groups Agreed. Selection of Working Party Chairmans Rather than work on a rotation basis, it was decided that the Advis r Group and the Secretary General would select the people e's~"$OSIi~ie a r e wor ng_ ar ~es an n es would commit to t ose cho~ces. Decision making: PM'r r o resent a procosal, arior to the October 8oard meet n identifying those areas w ere a unanimous dec s o is necessar an ose ere a ma cision mi t be ro ate. , or one, wou not automati- ca y accept go ng to a majority-vote situation. SAWP Consultant: At SAtQP's recommendation, it was agreed that SAWP could proceed with retaining a consultant to assist in developing an information system/communications plan for the Secretariat, with payment to be out of the Secretariat budget (as opposed to SAWP). It was also announced that Josephine Shakespeare had given notice of departure from ICOSI employment, effective mid-August. It was agreed that PMI would recommend appropriate recognition for her outstanding performance. 1 v-+-~- RJM/ r g c ar . arco u o N 0 Attachments N ~ cc: Dr. F. G. Colby E. J. Jacob, Esq . Jr ?7r Vimond E 0 w a ~ . . , . . ~ N
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n•^•-•. .. .. .. ................ ', ' -.... ~ . .um .. iLLNESS Luce, B.R. 6 S.O. Schweic r THE f:CONOMIC COSiS or SMOK1 . •INDUCEDr~r !n: "Research on Smoking nehavior," National Inst. Drug Abuse Research Monograph Ser. No. 17. 1977. METIKIDOLOGY: Cites previous research incl. USPHS 'Health Consequences of Smoking"(1965) Roya1 College of Physicians "Smoking and Health Now". ~ Cites cost estimates of selected diseases from Cooper & Rice (1976) and , Boden's 1976 estimates of the percent of various diseases attributable to smoking. Economic costs are auiltiplied by corresponding smoking factors to arrive at estimates of the cost of various diseases attributable to smoking. Present value of lifetime earnings discounted at 4%. Previous methods of calculating costs are criticized. THESIS: Smoking results in a ma,ior drain of the nation's economic resources in ter+Qs of both direct and indirect health care costs. In the absence of these costs, resources could be reallocated to other sectors of the economy and . there would be more healthy individuals to enjoy them. ) f tuce, B.R. 5 S.O: Schweitzer SMOKING ANd AC~C~)1BUSE:'`A CO~iPARIS9N OF THEtR ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES. New England Jour. Med. 298 (Ro. 10). 1978 METHODOLOGY: Citing previous research esp. Berry's 1971 estimates of alcohol abuse analyzed in terms of 1976 dollars and compared to costs of smoking (also adjusted to 1976) derived from Cooper & Rice's (1916) cost estimates of selected diseases; and Boden (1976) estimates of the percent of those diseases attributable to smoking. Direct and indirect cost concept is used. Present value of lifetime earnings discounted at 4%. THESIS: Direct and indirect economic costs of smoking are large and measurable, although they are considerably less than alcohol abuse ($27.5 Billion/Yr. •as compared to $44 Billion/Yr.) mainly due to lower direct health care costs for smoking-related illness and higher motor vehicle accident, violent crime and social rehabilitation programs related to alcohol abuse. Per capita cost of Illness related to smoking is estimated at $459/Yr.
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ICOSI - Social Cost/Social Value Paper Page 3 December 17, 1979 w • / • R often faced with is "we've heard smoking costs the country "x" dollars"j how do you respond without saying it does not cost "x" dollars, but "y" dollars"? George Berman stated that most of the current form of the paper is not usable as is, e.g. for PR purposes. Instead, it presents economic points. The intent he said is to present it to associa- tions as a way of helping them understand the nature of the defenses but with the caveat that they better ask for additional assistance/support before responding. In affect, it is a table of contents of what has been developed. George mentioned that there were two main underlying documents, one by Littlechild in the U. R. and another by two American economists. once these documents are "cleaned up," they can become ICOSI documents. Ed Jacob expressed the concern that there not be much detailed dis- cussion of the causes of absenteeism or premature death since this leads us back to the primary issue. Christian Vogel said that the intent of the document has to be . clarified, i.e. is it an indicator of the underlying data versus a usable end-product? He said that if it is an avenue to make people in the associations and the companies aware of the issues then it is good. However, concerning the section on absenteeism, he felt that it was not applicable to Germany because of the social benefits structure that exists there. It would also not be appli- cable in countries with similar systems which take care of absenteeism. A discussion took place concerning possible uses and how the paper could be presented to the national associations. It was mentioned that the associations have a high expectation of the usable end- product, and that these expectations would not be fulfilled by the current form of the paper. It was then suggested that the paper be provided to associations at the Countermeasures Workshop for discussion and to get their opinion as to possible uses. Sub- sequently, it would go to the Executive Committee with appropriate recommendations. Mary Covington expressed concern that we could not end up with a finalized product that could be handed out to the associations at the workshop since there are many publics to whom such a paper could be addressed. Going over some of the pos- sible uses, Mary mentioned that it could be helpful in preparing a company pamphlet for executive guidance, but felt the current form would not serve that purpose. If it were to be used to pre- pare an economic paper for government use, it would need national adaptation. Similarly, if associations were to use it in meetings with politicians, it also would need national adaptation. She then concluded that with all the fine-tuning that would be needed to fulfill the possible uses she had just mentioned, that it was beyond the scope of SAWP and IC05I.
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0 0 0 • s 6 • Chapter V. Impact of Smoking Restrictions in the Workplace. Progress to Date Data from our laboratory study show that in two of five basic job tasks, the performance of deprived smokers deterio- trated after one half hour of deprivation. This tells us that there is merit in exploring this part of the project further. Current Activity Our present task is to design a research ro ect aimed at w ce We . r evaluatin e cost o n e ar v ew n us en eer n consu ante now. This will be o owa y se ect on o suppor personnel in the social sciences to round out the team. Future Activity We plan to hava a detailad project outline completed by early August. 0
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Chapter IV. The Threat to Civil Liberties. 0 0 0 r 7 6 0 Progress to Date This incor rate material from Che ters and II. It s, therefore, st 1 at aa ear y stage. Current Activity By mutual agreement, Dr. Nozick has withdrawn as a participant in the project. We are making further contacts now. Future Activity Every effort will be made to have a draft chaoter ready by mid-July. 9
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Document 27 of 76 ! M ! • • • i; 0113 C uEa rluummsr rl r o c) naee ) Home View the Tiff Images Title: SOCIAL COSTS/SOCIAL VALUES PROGRESS REPORT. MARCH 17, 1980 (800317). Document No.: 502091498 -1506 Document Type: REPORT Date: 19800317 Request Number: 1RFP4;1RFP9 Possible Requests: 1 RFP 110 Production Date: 19970131 Box: RJR3434 0
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• 0 INTEROFFICE CORRESPONDENCE TO: Mr. Dennis Durden Mr. Wm. D. Hobbs Mr. E. A. Horrigan, Jr. Mr. S. B. Witt, III R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Intcrnation, 1+•inr.iim S;; 4:n.• bd..C. 2714? °nJJn° December 17, 1979 FROM: Richard J. Marcotullio SUBJECT: ICOSI - The draft of the economic section of the above paper was discussed at the SAWP meeting in London,December 10 and 11, 1979. A brief summary of the conclusions reached is provided herein, followed by further details for those who might w1int them. SUMMARY 1. The paper is not usable in its current form; however, it does indicate where our defenses lie and what material is available for helping associations/companies. 2. Areas where we can look at the data and go further concern absenteeism, premature death statistics and excess medical expenses. ~ 3. We must be careful to avoid treading on the primary issue. LQ ~ 4. Underlying research documents (U. K. and U. S. economists) could become ICOSI documents once put in their proper form. 0 .5. The er and underlying documents will be explored with assoc a o an ur ng e ion Counte~asures Worksho (Brussels - January 28 and 29, 1~iB6), so as to ge e r v . 6. On the basis of association input, recommendations for possible use will be made to the Executive Committee of ICOSI in February. rNarotv~l~o kn -.4 ro
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6 Chapter IX. The Social Role of Smoking. Progress to Date A first draft of the Manual Chapter has been reviewed by the SAWP Project Team. The underlying consultant's report has been distributed to SAWP and ICOSI Secretariat. Current Activity A revised draft of the Manual Chapter ia in preoaration for Y We have developed an outli e with Dr. Feinhandlar, of a Train ac a o ~e social science consultants ~i other coun r es to o ta n an an`a ~ze s m ar a a in=a manner con- eiaent with e sEuBy'. "rfha urthez research is coat far less, by virtua of the Training Package axpeaEe 0 and the experience which has already been gained. The Package will consist of six elementsr --The ICOSI report. --A training text. --A video tape whichs -illustrates and discusses social functions of smoking. . -gives viewers an opportunity to record actual data. -tests the reliability of these observations by comparison with Peinhandler coding of the same activity. --Interview formats to help define the settings and meanings attached to the smoking behavior. --A format for recording behavior. --A coding manual. --Complete statistfcal methodology. The ob ectives of conducting this research elsewhere are to 9ain 1 re bilit and, ultimately, to roc_~ ure cross- u~rTtual d~ata: uc data will offer an opportunity to es smo ng e avior in terms of other social variables, rat er than merely describe it. Future Activity N We are developinc e plan to cnr±on of Dr. °o Feinhandler's reseassh. At present,lan calls for breaking ., the wor nto wo topics, each to be written for two levels of N 0 0 0
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• • • • • 4. ACTION-PLaN KOIRKIAG WITH At'D 11{IQKETJR6 'T,D THE ASSOCIATIDHS 44. ALL THE ASSQCFATiONS REPRESEHTED AT THE ZURICH FEETING NILL BE KEPT INFORMED OF PROGRESSr THEIR, EXPERIENCE AND KNON•8D1I WILL BE QA•LLED i1PON AS APPROPRIATE BY THE SUB-CDPIMITIIEE. 4.2. BASICALLY THE DEVELDPMfiNT OF CnUldTERMEASURES WILL FO.LI:QW A• "NAR]CETING APPROACH" WITH THE TASK OF THE SUB-CUFY'IITTEE BEING TO COME UP WITH '.PRaDUCTS' TRAT THE ASSOCIATIONS NEED AND CAN; ADAPT AND USE. 4..3. N4SrE1+ER, THE ASSOCIAT'IONS ARE THE KEYS TD EFFECTI.VE COUNTERMEASURE ACTIONS, AND+THERE IS RD P01NT 1N DEVELOPING COUNTERPIEASURE PROGRAttS IF THEY DO NOT NAVE THE CAPACITY OR CAPABILI;TY OF CARRYbNG THEM, OUT. PROPOSALS T0: STAFF UP' THE INDUSTRY• WITH SUITABSLITY AUALIFI,ED PUB.LIC: RELATIONS AND CONHU- NICAT.IONS EXPER7ISE IS OUTS:IDE TNE TERMS OF REFER£NCE OF THE SUB-C9PIiI1TTEE. BUT I~S CRUCIAL TO THE SUCCESS OF ITS ACTIYITIES. THE EXEC:UT_LVE_~'D, lIHi1IEFaS,ATTENTININ IS DRAMN TO TiL S: VERY IMPRRTANT 911BJECT. 5. A~J10 J,aN-PROPOSALS: 1980 - YEAR OF THE NWI-SMOKER - PRE-EMPTIVE_CAI<'iPA_•CGu 5.1.1• THE WORLD HEALTH. ORGANIZATION ORIGINALLY DEC.IDEl7 THAT THE THEHE OF THE 110RLD, UEALTH DAY IN 1990 (APRIL 17TH) S3lOlfLD BE 'SHOKING 0 R HEALTH - THE CHOICE IS YOURS'. TH3S IDEA WAS THEN EXPANDEIl AH9 MEF3BER GOVERl1FIENTS ENCOURAGED TD REGARD 1980 AS THE' YEAR Of TBE NOtI-SMOKER. 5.2. WE KNOW FROI9 OUR EXPERIENCE AT THE STO•CKHOLti COItJFERENCE AND AFTER THAT THE'ANT1-SMU.KIIIG HOVEMENT IS INCREASING ITS CAPABILUTY OF CCIORDINATING ITS• ACTIONS ON A NORLD-WI.DE SCALE. WE CAN THEREFORE EXPECT TNA'T HIS W H O INITIATI9E WILL RESULT IN INCREASED Q04RDIRATED ACTIO.NS BEING CARRIED OUT TNROUGIIOUT THE YEAR AND TNROUGHOUT THH WORLD•.
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Chapter III. The Character of Anti-Smoking Organizations. Three draft reports have been completed in support of this chapter. 1. An analysis of "The Political Culture of Anti- Smoking Groups", by Aaron Wildavsky et al. 2. observations on the Fourth World Conference on Smoking and Health, by Peter Berger. 3. A brief report linking the two studies. Our primary obiective in this_area was_to demonstrate clearly t ant -smok ng activists nave a s ecia. wh c $ es e r own r o e ut not necessar ly the major ty o nonsmo ers. At th s time, we have achieved only partial succss toward this objective. It was hoped that a rigorous, scientific analysis of the written material produced by anti-smoking groups would reveal a great deal about their ideologies. At Stockholm, speakers indicated, for example, a clear bias against capitalism, business, and multinational firms in particular. There are other indications that organized anti-smokers are also active in public interest movements relating to air-pollution, nuclear power, health foods, and the like -- all characterized by an aversion to moderate risk, by a utopia of eternal life, and by a disregard for the economic trade-offs which these imply. Such disregard necessarily affects their view of the social costs of smoking, and in turn justifies the distortions of ' social cost which were addressed in Chapter 1. In fact, analysis of anti-smoking materials revealed very little ideological content. This is in such striking contrast to Dr. Berger's observations at Stockholm that we must speculate that these ideas are suppressed in the anti-smoking media. Dr. Wildavsky's report speaks of anti-smoking leaders having a "mail-order constituency", i.e., a loosely-knit, largely unkown membership who never really encounter the movement face to face. In this case, it may be very important to avoid issues which might alienate some members. If this is indeed the case, evidence of a network of ideologies beneath the anti-smoking surface may require a much more direct approach, possibly one which we would not wish to pursue. Dr. Wildavsky's report does provide insights into the motivation of anti-smoking lea~ers; into the origins of such groups, their patterns of development, and their relationships
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!• Chapter I, The Social Cost of Smoking -- Myth or Reality. ! i • • 0 Progress tb' Da'te Manual Chapter has been distributed to SAWP ICOSI Secretariat and 15 national manufacturers' associations. /• Two consultants' reports.have been distributed to SAWP and •~~ ICOSI. w Current Activity Mr. Edward arefe of International Civios, Inc. has been / 7 I asked to develop the technical arguments at a more "intuitively ~~,;,.~•'ia acceptable" level. ~~ The American Enter ri e Instit tror~g interes n mono ra h on "Cost-Senefit.Analysis o Consumer Products." .~, Future Aotivity we•plan to develo a oonference, in the s rin of 19B1, on' i~ "Coet-Senefit Issues Taxa on an e u a n. e a s, in- c rec se sub ec , w be se e w en we have located a sponsoring organization. Current plans call for an academic or institutional setting, and funding by other industries as well. An in-house stu see whethei issue. s a'f eceh' d soa~ oat &9 oan iminate p 06 a ,o
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0 Progress to Date A surve f on-line ooMDU c m A copy te survey report has been sent to the I SI office. . A preliminary search profile has been used to test the value of these sources, and to test the search profile itself. This has narrowed the list of usable information bases consider- ably. Current Activity We are reviewing the test results to improve our search procedure. A complete sear h w d o lha most promi i in or o ases. Th s w 11 generate a useful b ograp y on t e soc a cost of smoking, and on social cost in general, by the end of Acril. Furture Activity Based on the results of our current activity, we will o~r ixa a s etematil uodatinc grocedure so that current papers w"ill be brought our attention ae soon as they are entered into the public information bases. w s a for (a) bu ld n a custom informnti9n base for ICOSI and (b) dev ~ ^^ &n {~ nrmr .+* ratriwyal svstem aro~ ICOSI nees, by a apting an existing system. i 0
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-2- • • 8. U.K. industry~government ne~otiations - The government has announc- ec3~ that t~ie ex st ng vo u~ ntary agreement will con- tinue until a new one is developed. There are three primary areas under discussions - product modifications - e.g. maximum T&N levels, Industry is apparently considering some concessions, such as a phased reduction in maximum T&N levels. - The government is considering a stable of health warnings, either to be used simultaneously or rotated. The industry has said that most of these are unacceptable. - The major point is a proposed reduction by 50 percent in the advertising and promotion budgets that would be allowed for the sale of tobacco products. The key question is whether the government will decide to turn the area over to Parliament for legislation versus con- tinuing to try to achieve a voluntary agreement. In case of the former, the situation could become much more political and result in more stringent requirements. The U.K. i.ndustry feels that there is a 50/50 chance that the government will decide to legislate. C. World Health DaZin Germany had a bigger impact than expected. A ma7or TV tation carried a one-hour anti-smoking program which included a computer hookup in six major cities where people could call and give their age, number of cigarettes smoked, number of years smoked, etc. and the computer would tell them their life expectancy reduction (not qualifying it as "based on statistics," but just stating as a fact that life expectancy would be reduced by "R" years). There were other radio and TV programs which carried anti-smoking mes- sages from the Minister of Health and there were numerous print ads with the world Health Day slogan, "Smoking or Health: the Choice is Yours," along with encouragement for people to get into cessation programs. Posters and stickers are also widely being used and it is felt that the anti-smoking effort will be on-going rather than just being active on the one day. The Verband has prepared a brochure for employees of member companies in support of smoking. It is also considering a legal challenge to the major TV program, on the basis of alleged violation of the TV code statutes which call for balanced reporting. D. Sel ium - the Royal Decree has been enacted, which signifies anot er country where rather severe advertising and marketing restrictions will come into being. a. a N ~0
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0 with each other. Differences between the U.K. and U.S. move- ments are striking, as are some similarities. Current Activity to di est the material we have received, aw to yr te Cha =g Manua Dr Wildavsky's report is nearly 300 pages in length.) A rst draft of Chapter III should be ready by the end of May,_ 1950. Future Activity Mr. Edwe Grefe, of Civics International, will be asked - to evalua e t e material in terms of its use to separate nize ant -emo ers frOm no mokeia. e'w37T33entify c ce o es n the material or his purpose, and ways . to fill these misesing elements. Much more can be learned about the flow of funds between anti-smok3-n rou s. For axamp e, the Amer can ancar ociety has un e an ant -smoking education program through the Association of Classroom Teacherst both are members of the National Interagency Council on Smoking and Health. In c ntrast to the "scientific" a roach with which we entered th s ro ec , we are a so pursu ng a ourna stic" appr-~$erger has suggestea b3T eagues w o m g t be interested in developing our materials into one or more articles for "upscale" lay media such as Politics Today or Political Review. One very promising lead has been uncov- ered B i ng material from ChapIl andIII on anti-amOking movements, we-efioT3'Se a5fe to deve o some vaualsoublica~io_s.. Firm c~ ents be sought e ween pr and June. 40
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/ -4.. M • • • 0 0 4. Developing Countries Update (Gwynn Hargrove) A. ~Ey pt - A Steering Committee on issues in the Mid-East was formed and met on March 11. At that time, word was received of a very severe draft law in Egypt, to include a maximum tar level of 20 milligrams. The Steering Committee felt it was desirable to obtain more information about the situation and asked Gwynn Hargrove to go to Egypt, to meet with repre- sentatives of companies so as to get them to work together. Philip Morris, BAT, Rothmans and B&W were to be visited (RJR is in the process of looking for a new distributor so there was no one to see), as well as the two local Egyptian com- panies. Input with the locals is considered important since they have major SOM and, generally higher tar content cigarettes. This activity is not an official ICOSI activity, but one involving companies with interest in Egypt and the Mid-East. ICOSI per se will not be mentioned in any of Gwynn's meetings. A secondary purpose of the trip to Egypt is to sound out the possibility of forming a Mid-East association in some form (PMI is pushing this). Hargrove is to report to the Steering Committee at a meeting to be held in London on May 1(Tim Finnegan will be in Europe anyway and will attend for RJR). B. Brazil - ABIFUMO will commission EIU to do a shorter version o~ the EIU report on the Contribution of Leaf Tobacco in the Third World, in Portuguese. Gwynn Hargrove will write to EIU concerning an estimate for doing a Spanish version as well, for use elsewhere. Christian Vogel had a criticism of the EIU project in general, i.e. that it did not answer the most critical question of an UNCTAD study on tobacco in the Third World, relating to "added value" from taking cheap tobacco and deriving much larger profit from it. Gwynn therefore suggested that a specific country be picked and a good educa- tional institution compare the EIU report with the UNCTAD study to see where additional answers are needed. The outcome would determine ways of developing a new approach from within a country where tobacco is grown. Discussion of creating a Third World working party concluded that it would be best to proceed by way of an ad hoc project team under SAWP rather than another formal working party. Christian Vogel indicated strongly that Reemtsma would not view another working party favorably. Hargrove is to put together an outline of requirements and qualifications of the type of person who we would want on an ad hoc group to help him in addressing the Third World issues. BAT and PMI said they would try to identify someone to work with Hargrove on an ad hoc basis to assist him on further implementation of a Third World action plan as approved broadly by the Executive Committee at its meeting in February. This small ad hoc group will then present SAWP with a course of action. 0
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- 5- C. Hill & Knowlton International Or anization monitorin - Gwynn argrove exp a ne t at s or g na proposa was intended to be limited to organizations touching upon Third World issues but that Julian Doyle had widened the proposal to do a total monitoring of international organi- zations. The question of monitoring was deferred by SAWP until the overall 7COSI staffing is resolved. At that time, SAWP will contact companies and associations to query what is available/desired. In the meantime, Hargrove will explore with Hill & Knowlton its capability for pro- viding advanced information and intelligence (something ICOSI is not capable of doing) on the following organizations: WHO UICC (International Union Against Cancer) 0 • • 0 - IUAT (International Union Against Tuberculosis) - IUHE (International Union for Health Education) - SIC (International Society and Federation of Cardiology) - UNCTAD (United Nations Conference for Technology and Development) - ILO (International Labor Organization) - FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization) - The UN (to include UN Center for Transnational Corporations and the Economic and Social Council) The above-listed organizations are those which member companies indicated they did not currently have capability of monitoring. .~ The WHO report prepared by George Berman was discussed and SAWP members were requested to provide Mary Covington with ~ comments concerning four areas for possible future work (list attached). SAWP MEETING CONTINUATION - APRIL 1, 1980 Discussion continued concerning the functioning of ICOSI in the absence of a Secretary General and what ICOSI and the Secretariat should have as their missions. it was pointed out that Philip Morris would provide continuity for ICOSI by having Richard Corner and Jules Hartogh orches- trating ICOSI activities, with Gwynn Hargrove manning the office two or three days at a time on alternate weeks. Again it was mentioned that Philip Morris was preparing a proposal for staffing (to include job descriptions), as well as short and long-term recommendations for ICOSI. Trevor King felt this provided an opportunity to reassess the. whole role,.function and organization of ICOSI. Christian Vogel felt 0
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IV. Civil Liberties: (a) GB has yet to hear from Matrix regarding wrap-up costs. (b) Meetings with William F. Buckley, Jr., Harvard philosophy professor John Rawls and former U.S. Senator Sam J. Ervin should be considered. Daniel I. Wickler -- whose paper "Persuasion and Coercion for Health" was distributed among the attendees -- also may be contacted. Our aim will be to develop a philosophical framework which could later be--adapted by different countries. V. Information Retrievals GB reported that approximately 500 papers -- 300 hard copies and 200 references -- are currently retrievablet 50-70 more will be added each quarter. InBexing is now underway. The Secretariat will be contacted by RM to insure that the system will be compatible with the INFOTAB information system. VI. Workplace Restrictionse 0 Data already has been gathered at a smoking-restricted blue collar site, and later this week a restricted white collar site will be visited. This latter site most likely also will provide unrestricted white collar data. GB will attempt to obtain an unrestricted blue collar site through RJR. f ~ 0 a JAA Q -3- N ~ P 1
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-6- we should restate clearly the role of ICOSI, i.e. a clearinghouse for the companies to exchange views and through that exchange make sugges- tions to associations. ICOSI should design strategies to meet the challenges and then leave it up to the associations to implement. Gwynn Hargrove felt that the Secretariat's role ceases after ICOSI- produced materials are made available to the associationst it's then up to the member companies to make it all work. PROJECT TEAM REPORTS: A. • hon -term communications plan - Trevor King reported that the rev se o ect ve s'to n luence, modify or change public opinion to the industry, smokers and smoking, to create a more favorable climate, however directly or indirectly." Sub objec- tives are "to protect smokers and their behavior; to separate smokers and non-smokers from anti-smokersi to discredit the anti's." King pointed out that the project team members had not had an opportunity to get together and that the report therefore reflected mainly the work done by him and Ogilvy, Senson and Mather (London). The need for high-level member company commitment was indicated, especially "to persuade national associations to do what they ~ might not always perceive needs to be done." The need for early, high-level national association involvement was also specified, to avoid their getting the feeling of domination. Xing suggested the need to develop something tangible that at least one country can use, to demonstrate how the program can work. Associations in the U.K., U.S. and Germany will be consulted and, in fact, several hours were spent at the Tobacco Institute on April 2 in discussing its long-term communication plan. In essence, the suggested program provides a master plan for bringing together all ICOSI activities, including the information role of the Secretariat and the work of the various working parties. Information would be collected and analyzed and programs designed for implementation by national associations. It is also premised on the creation of a full-time organization to carry out the pro- gram, including a project manager, researcher/analyst and secre- tarial services. This organization, with the suggested title of ICOSI Communications Group (ICG) would have a budget requirement of approximately $165,000 over a twelve-month period. It was suggested that the ICG would also need its consultants (Ogilvy, Benson and Mather) for an additional fee of $132,000 for the twelve- month period. With miscellaneous expenses the total twelve-month budget requirement would calculated at $319,000. It was further pointed out that the ICG would need access to a budget for research, creative and other work to be commissioned, with an additional cost of approximately $110,000. Discussion of the long-term communication project produced comments ranging from "we are going too far" to "it's absolutely sound and vital, no matter how ambitious; it answers some of the frustrations we've been discussing as to how to make the Secretariat•work, i.e. a system." SAWP then approved an expenditure of $11,000 a month V/
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-3- • • • • • • E. Finland - the Government has admitted the failure of its anti=smoking advertising program and, instead, will aim at forcing down by law the tar yields to 14 milligrams. A substantial tax increase will also be proposed. Legis- lation will be considered in Parliament in May and is considered highly likely to pass. 3. Social Costs/Socfal Value - George Berman gave a progress report And in cate areas o future activity. Concerning Chapter I (The Social Cost of Smoking - Myth or Reality), Ed Grefe has been made available by Philip Morris to write an additional condensed version of Chapter I. It was felt that many of the messages contained in the chapter would not be readily under- stood by readers other than economists. Berman advised that the Director of the Wharton School of Business Applied Research Center is interested in the concept of doing a conference on costs/benefit analysis. However, it was felt that the topic was too broad and it would be best to narrow the subject to "consumer products," thereby attracting other industries and also giving us the opportunity of getting papers submitted. A possible new title for the conference would be "Costs/Benefit • Issues and Consumer Products." It was also felt that there should be international input to the conference so that it is not totally U.S. oriented. The question of internationalizing in general the activities con- cerning social costs/value arqse; i.e. it was felt that the national associations would have to be "pushed" to do something with the material to be distributed to them, otherwise it will remain just a U.S. activity. It was felt that the national associations do not know what to do with the material; therefore, a "training package" is being put together to advise associations how the social func- tions of smoking can be analyzed in their countries. The package will include a protocol which can be used to train researchers in methods of observation of smoking and related behavior, criteria to be used for coding, interview formats, instructions,for data analysis, etc. The cost of developing the training package (being done by Dr. Feinhandler) is approximately $36,000. It will be dis- cussed further at the Social Costs/Value Project Team meeting on April 28. The package is expected to be ready in approximately three months. An independent study will be done on the real causes of.absenteeism, to see if smokers are being "charged" for other causes of absenteeism such as heavy drinking, two working parents with children, etc. Chapter 11 (The Social Role of Smoking) is ready for press after completion of an issues and answer edition, with key index, to allow people readily to find answers to questions raised. Chapter III (The Character of Anti-smoking Organizations) will be discussed by the Project Team at its meeting of April 28, with recommendations to SAWP to follow. Apparently Professor Wildavsky is backing out of the project, but Marshall Thompson (a U.K. anthro- pologist) is ready to take over. 0 N a w 91
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June 8, 1981 Re& INFOTAB Social Values/Social Oosts Project Minutes 6/8/81 Proiect Team Meeting In Attendance Andrew Whist - Phillip Morris Richard Marcotullio - R.J. Reynolds George Berman - Devon Management Resources Timothy M. Finnegan - Jacob, Medinger & Finnegan Joel Ackerman - Jacob, Medinger & Finnegan I. Economic Iesuese (a) Meetings with.Drs. Tollison and Wagner will be arranged to discuss their current situation. We do not anticipate the publication of their monograph. t / Plfs -.:., I m ~ u .. .... . ~'•~~• I.
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(b) GB is ccmpleting biographies and selected bibliographies of the economists and writers whom we might wish to meet. Meetings will be arranged with Milton Friedman, Ronald H. Coase, Kenneth Arrow and Herbert Stein to solicit their assistance. (c) The cost overrun for the Wharton Confererice was estimated by GB to be about $5,000. (d) It was decided that the Wharton Conference papers should be published by Wharton. The cost of 1,000--copies was estimated by G.B. to be about $7,500 and it was decided that that number of copies would be ample. A forward to the collected papers might be written either by Dr. Tollison or Dr. Wagner or by Dr. Adams of Wharton. II. Social Valuess -Nothing further is to be done with regard to the video training package. • III. Anti-Smoking Organizationst GB will complete and circulate among •the Group a summary of material developed for Chapter 3. The Project Teaml will determine what further efforts, if any, should be made after reviewing this summary. The Wildavsky paper should not be given to the Verband and RM will notify Bob Ely of this' ° decision. -2- ,
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-e- A question arose as to whether the Board of Governors had ever asked that the background papers be produced. The answer was "no," they were produced by the Stockholm Task Force for use of national asso- ciations in event of questions concerning the Fourth World Conference. imperia2 had fundamental problems with the papers in that it does not see ICOSI in the role of "making health judgements on medical issu®s." While Imperial did not want to be disruptive and hold the other com- panies back from approval and utilization of the papers, it also felt that it did not want to be associated with them in their current form. Imperial was quite concerned about any statements which they would view' as a derogative from the health warning. Hargrove found it surprising that Imperial had such fundamental problems with the papers in the U.K. whereas BAT and Philip Morris appeared not to. Tim Finnegan added that he felt it would be dangerous for one company to dissociate itself from the papers since it would "flag" areas where opponents would start digging. A discussion of several hours took place on the background papers following the regular SAWP meeting and it was agreed that Don Hoel would visit Chris Jones at Imperial during a trip to Europe in mid April. It was decided that if the problems could be resolved, then the papers would go out to national associations as ICOST background papers; if not, individual companies •would make the papers available to their affiliates overseas. NEXT SAWP MEETING - was scheduled for Frankfurt on June 3 and 3. Su sequent y, t e desired accommodations in Frankfurt were found to be unavailable and an alternate location is being sought. RJM/gr Attachments April 29, 1980
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Document 17 of 76 p„a:: o0 I31i1S' ~ fute C~ aumma rio. d.a ~ e~xt dee ~ ` Home View the Tiff Images Title: INFOTAB SOCIAL VALUES/SOCIAL COSTS PROJECT. MINUTES 6/8/81 (810608) PROJECT TEAM MEETING. Author: I JAA;UNK Document No.: 500878594 -8596 Document Type: MINUTES Date: 19810608 Request Number: PLAINTIFF LETTER REQUEST;IRFP111;1RFP128 Production Date: 19971118 Box: RJR4252
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will be receiving in the next two weeks Dr. Feinhandler's revised version of his second paper, "Situational Context and Smoking Behavior". That paper will be submitted for publication to Behavioral Science or Psychological Monogra2hs. 4. Absenteeism: George Berman's work in this area provided us with a valuable survey of the literature relating to absenteeism in general and absenteeism and smoking in particular. We have held exploratory discussions with persons knowledgeable in this field concerning the possibility of preparing for publication a review of the literature which could be used to rebut allegations that smoking is responsible for worker absenteeism. 5. Social tensiono Prof. van den Haag has submitted to us an outline of a possible paper dealing with social tension caused by smoking restrictions. We will be discussing with Prof. van den Haag refinement of the outline and preparation of a draft paper. 6. Hiring discrimination: Prof. Solmon's paper was published in the March 1983 issue of Personnel Administrator. As a result to this effort, Prof. Solmon is now work ng wit the Tobacco Institute, as part of the Institute's workplace smoking project. Prof. Solmon's efforts will be directed at further rebuttal of the Weis allegations. Budget/Expenditures 1. In January, the Advisory Group approved a preliminary 1983 budget of $35;000, a carry-over of unexpended funds from the project's 1982 budget. 2. The following summarizes 1983 receipts and expenditures through May 1. Balance 1/1/83 $1,341.67 Funds received 15,000.00 Total funds available 6, 9 . 7 Funds expended through 5/1/83 7 321 t.n 5/1/83 Balance 8r959.2 ~ Authorized but not disbursed to Project Team $20,000.00 N G1 Decision Requested: GJ Cn ~ None required at this time. -3-
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SAWP MEETING, WASHINGTON, D.C., MARCH 31 - APRIL 1, 1960 In attendance: Mary Covington, Chairman - Philip Morris George Berman - Devon Management Resources Incorporated Bob Ely - British American Tobacco Tim Finnegan - Jacob & Medinger Gwynn Hargrove - Consultant to ICOSI Don Hoel - Shook, Hardy & Bacon Trevor King - Imperial Tobacco, Ltd. Richard Marcotullio - R.J. Reynolds Christian Vogel - Reemtsma 1. ICOSI Secretar General situation - SAWP members were briefed on the separat on o Ju an Doy e from ICOSI and were advised that an interim period plan was being developed by Bill Murray (PME), Chairman of the Board of Governors as of April 1, 1980. This plan is to be submitted to member companies for approval and will Snclude staffing requirements, priorities, job descriptions, etc. The priorities mentioned were staffing, financial management (controls and reporting), conditions of employment for staff, and the establishment of a clearinghouse function. Examples of staff- ing areas to be covered are: - Secretary General (with altered job specification), and Secretary; - Office Manager (J. Shakespeare); - Library/Information Services and Secretaryt - Clerk. SAWP members discussed the role of ICOSI and the Secretariat, elements for a job description for the SG as well as a profile for that position. The attached documents reflect SAWP's comments and were intended to supplement the material being developed by Philip Morris. • 2. U ate on developments and industry affairs in industrialized countries A. Euro ean Aseociation of Advertisin A encies (EAAA) has a comm ttee on c garette advert s ng w c wi now include representatives from the cigarette industry, to enable it to develop more informed positions on cigarette advertising. The ICOSI Defense of Advertising Working Party will be working with the EAAA on issues such as the possibility of an international symposium on "critical industries," i.e. alcohol, tobacco and OTC drugs. / - o . . tZ21 L -. +c1`u::, ;r M1~rwtt 11
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oS/ PROJECT PROGRESS REPORT 12 May 1983 Project Name: Social Costs/Social Values Project Team Members: Project Leader: Richard J. Marcotullio, R.J. Reynolds Short-Term Objectives: 1. Monograph on smoking and society: Refine draft outline= select editor and contributors 2. Tollison/wagner summary: preparation of a simplified summary of the Tollison/Wagner work 3. Feinhandler publication: refine draft"papers entitled "Anti-Smoking and the Body Politic" and "Situational Context and Smoking Behavior" 4. Absenteeism: see "Progress to Date" section below 5. Social tension: develop draft paper regarding the social tensions caused by smoking restrictions 6. Hiring discrimination: see "Progress to Date" section below Long-Term Objectives: 1. Monograph on smoking and society: publication of book or monograph tentatively titled "Smoking and Society" 2. summary of Tollison/Wagner summary: the Tollison/Magner work publication of simplified 3. Feinhandler publication: publication of papers 4. Absenteeism: see "Progress to date" section below 5. Social tension: publish paper regarding the social tensions caused by smoking restrictions 6. Hiring discrimination: see "Progress to Date" section below r~~.: :•> ' LL ~ ~w
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Timetable: 1. Monograph on smoking and society: complete refinement of outline, selection of editor and recruitment of contributors during second quarter 1983 (revised) 1 2. Tollison/Wagner summary: obtain publication as soon as possible 3. Feinhandler publication: obtain publication as soon as possible 4. Absenteeism: see "Progress to Date" section below 5. Social tension: to be completed in third quarter 1983 (revised) 6. Hiring discrimination: see "Progress to Date" section below Progress to Date: 1. Monograph on smoking and society: We have held discussions recently with Dr. Robert D. Tollison, currently Professor of Economics at Clemson University, regarding the possibility of his serving as editor for the monograph. Dr. Tollison has worked with the project team in the past and developed, in cooperation with Prof. Richard E. Wagner, a detailed economic analysis of the social costs issue. In March 1983, Dr. Tollison completed his service as chief economist of the United States Federal Trade Commission. At our recent meeting, Dr. Tollison was quite enthusiastic about the monograph concept and his serving as editor. We expect to confer with Dr. Tollison again within the next few weeks to discuss the project, including his suggestions concerning the monograph outline, to decide upon contributors and to prepare a budget. Following that meeting, we will circulate to the Advisory Group a final outline, indicating the author of each section of the monograph, and a proposed budget. 2. Tollison/Wagner summary: We will be meeting with Prof. Solmon next week to discuss the final revisions to his draft summary of the Tollison/Wagner work. The paper will be submitted for publication shortly thereafter. Prof. Solmon's current thought is to submit the paper to Regulation, a journal published by the American Enterprise Institute. 3. Feinhandler publication: We have received Dr. Feinhandler's revised version of "Anti-Smoking and the Body Politic". The paper will be submitted for publication in the next few weeks, probably to Atlantic Monthly or Encounter. We -2-
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. ~^ EXHIBIT A 0 0, . • Board of Directors Secretary General Project Groups Advisory' Group u
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-7- 8. for March, April and May, for continuing consulting work by Ogilvy, Benson and Mather. Sy the end of May the project team is to give its final recommendation to SAWP. Consideration will be given to staged budget approval rather than an up-front commitment. Approval was also given to working with an expert consultant on information services in conjunction with the Secretariat's information system. S ace restrictions on smokin (public smoking) - Bob Pittman (B&W) presented a ra t proposa to collect information on the extent of restrictions on smoking space in other countriest analysis of the informationt identification of successful defenses against restrictive measures; consideration of a symposium and a follow- up guidebook to be used by associations to assist in dealing with local situations. The overall objective is to alert national associations to the "insidious nature and ultimate danger of smoking restrictions and provide them with materials and techniques for resisting." Total costs of the project is approximately $3,000. I am working with Pittman on this project since Tuck is committed to the long-term communications project. SAWP approved the project plan and a questionnaire to national associations has been prepared as a first step. C. Mobilizin Allies, Includin The Tobacco Famil - Bob Ely's report n cate ttle a it onal act v ty s nce t e report to the ICOSI Executive Committee in February. The project team is continuing to identify potential allies and ways to motivate them to defend our positions and confront our opponents. An inventory of programs, actions and materials already used or in use will be developed as well as strategic approachs for dealing with allies at the inter- national level. ADDITIONAL SAWP ACTIVITIES: - Preparation of a notebook on advertising restrictions - current, background, opinions, trends, etc. National associations are to update responses to a previous questionnaire. Vogel and Hargrove will collaborate on future activity. - A form will be prepared to indicate status of various SAWP projects. Whenever possible papers and discussion materials will be prepared and disseminated in advance of SAWP meetings so that people will have an opportunity to review them thoroughly. Priority items for SAWP agendas will also be indicated. ICOSI BACKGROUND BRIEFING PAPERS: Christian Vogel reiterated his earlier request that the papers not be considered ICOSI position papers per se, i.e. that they not be con- strued as representing the position of individual member companies.
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Board of Directors I I Advisory Coamnittee Secreiry General SAIdP : DCG DAC EC :6c^E cL61S EELZ 60Z05
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Economic diary/Jan. 25-Jan. 29 January 25 A 'sure-fire' forecast for stocks at yearend The more than 100 million people who were glued to their rv sets yesterday watching the San Francisco 49ers hold off the late charge of the Gndnnati Bengals may have been viewing more than just Super Bowl XVI: They were watching a battle over which way the stock market would be heading during 1982. At least that is the finding of Robert Stovall, senkN vk:~resklent of Dean Witter Reynolds. Stovalt has de• veloped what he calls the "Super Bowl Predictor; " and it is saying that the San Frenclsoo victory means the stock mar- ket will close out 1982 higher than it ended 1981. , In the 15 years since the first Super Bowl was played, whenever the victor was a National Foothell Conference team--or an old NFt team now In the American Football Conference, such as Pittsburgh or Baltimore-the stock market as measured by the Standard & Poor's 500 went up. This occurred nine times, In five of the other sa years that an original An team won, the stock market ended the yesr lower. (The only exception: 1970 when Kansas City, an original AFL team, won and the market rose--but only by 0.1 %.) This yesr, since San Francisco is an ex-NFL team, stoc~s should move higher again. Stovall readily concedes that "there is no rational explanation" for the con- necaon between football and the stock mancet But he notes that being right 14 out of 15 times is a track record that any analyst would ertvy. January 26 Hidden costs of keeping cigarette taxes down President Reagan's decision not to raise excise taxes on cigarettes has disappointed some economiais--but not because an increase in the tax would add to government revenues and thus help bim the budget defxfit. "The Irony," says economist Kenneth Warner of the University of Michigan School of Public Health, "Is tftat doar bting the current excise tax of Bc per pack would have a substantial long-run beneficial Impact on both government expenditures and worker productlvity.° The reason Is the impact of smoking on heaith. Economists calculate that about 6% of total personal health ex- pertditures are caused by smoking-re- lated Ulnesses, and the federal govem- ment pk,ks up noarly 30% of this bill. Warner estimates that smoking cost the nation about $40 billion In 1980, of wtdch some $12 billion went directly for medicat expenses and $28 billion rep- resented productivity losses caused by worker Illness and mortality. Raising the tax on dgarettes-and thus the price--could have a signiflcant long-run effect on such costs because the demand for cigarettes among teen• agers and young adults is very senai- ttve to prioe changes. Indeed, a recent study by economists Eugene M. Lewit Douglas Caate, and Michael Grossman of the National Bureau of Economic Research suggests that a doubting of the excise tax would reduce the num- ber of teenage, smokers by about 15%--paR.y by inducing some to quit but mainly by discouraging many fram starting to smoke in the first place. Since smoking habits are acpuired early in life, the effects on smoking --and heatth-rwuld be expected to last Moreover, because most ciga- rettes are sold to adults whose smok- ing demand Is not very sensitive to price, the impact on cigarette industry sales would be small over the short run. "But the long-run payoff In terms of less suffering, lower medical expen- ditures, and higher productivity would be cumulatMe; " Warner says. Warner notes that the federat excise tax on cigarettes has not been raised f \ t:ae.n ny ae. xa.n for some 30 years, which means that Its real value has declined by more than two-thirds. And while he calcu- ' Istes that doubling the excise tax would cost the average smoker ebout $44 a year, he , observes that "the average nonsmoking family of four Is currently paying about $160 a yaar In taxes and insurance premiums to subsidize the medical costs incurred by smokers." January 27 Atms for the poor. Exports' silver lining While world trade fell last yearln nomi- nal dollar terms for the ikst time In decades, one product group seems to be thriving: weaponry. Armaments shipments continue to olimb, particular. ly to developing countries. The Soviet Union exported some $6.2 billion worth of arms to developing countries in 1981, aa:ording to the centraly planned economies unft of Wharton Econometric Forecasting As- soctates. That represents a jump of 10% from 19tW and about 52.5% of all Soviet exports to developing countries. Moreover, since about 75% of those sales were for hard currency, they were a big factor In offsetting Russia's kn- ports from the Wesf. As for the U. S., even though arms exports constitute only about 6% of total exports, America still produces a bigger share of the Third World's weap• ons than the Soviet Union does. Third World countries, Including Israel, or- dered close to $9 billion worth of mili- tary equipment from U. S. companies through the Pentagon's foreign military sales program In fiscal 1980, according to William Hartung of the Council on Economic Priorities, a New York•based research organtration. He says the trend Is accelerating. U. S. embassy and mititary personnel are now pemsit- ted to promote arms sales overaeas, and U. S. companies can-design weap• ons solely for export, Hartung notes. January 28 A new way to test the leading indicators News that the govommant's Index of leading indicators moved up in Decem- ber for the first time In six months ' Contlrwed on pege 30 20 BUSINESS WEE7C FebruOry 15. 1982 ECONOMIC W1RY
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INTER-OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE September 11, 1981 TOi Mr. E. A. Norrigan, Jr. FROM: R. J. Marcotullio/C. A. Tucker RE: INFOTAB - September 15, 1981 Meeting with Mary CovinBton In anticipation of our meeting with Mary Covington at 2:00 p.m. on September 15, Rich and I have discussed the major issues which Mary is likely to raise,and/or are of greatest interest to RJR. It is my understanding that Sam, Rich and I will meet with you at 1a30 on the 15th to advise you of our discussions with Mary earlier that day. , 1. Issue - Role of the Secretariat and committees, and vossible INFOTAB restructurinB: A. Proposed changes by the Secretary General are attached as Exhibit A. Your organizational proposal of 8/6/81 is attached as Exhibit B. B. The basic differences are: (1) Reporting structure. (2) Project groups (S.G.) vs. Working Parties (RJR). Under the S.G. proposal, standing committeea/working parties would be replaced by ad hoc project groups to be disbanded upon completion of the project. w Comments: We feel the position expressed by you in your telex to Mary Covington on 8/6/81 should be maintained, awaiting Mary's response and further contact from Foret Wiethuchter. A reference to the Tobacco Institute structure (Executive Committee, working committees and relationships of Kornegay •and Chilcote) might be a helpful analogy. A poll of PM, Imperial and Rothmans produces a soft set of reactions, with the general thread being a desire to have the S.C. assume a more active role in the running of the projects of the working parties. .KM. roo ~ : ,:~.., !, g L,N!.~~ 4"nf~~ ,.._ Mi~q, M
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a ~ -~ !w0~~+ . .,,14:L.. - • r 0 0 0 0 . MEMO TO: Mr. H. E. Osmon Mr. C. A. Tucker SUBJECT: INFOTAB - Courtesy Campaign R.J.Reynold. Tobacco International. Inc. . Winaton-Safem.N.C.27102 (919)777•4100- ~.. .. Apri1 10, 1984 At the Advisory Group meeting last week, Bryan Simpson arranged for a presentation of a possible campaign on courtesy, prepared by 0gilvey and Mather - London. A copy of the presentation material is attached. The Advisory Group stressed (as is recognized by the agency) that any campaign must avoid placing additonal pressure on the smoker. A question was also raised as to whether the theme should be mutual courtesy, addressing non-smoker tolerance as well. Ultimately it was decided that the concept and some of the executions should be panel-tested, to get initial reactions. The test will be in the U.K. and should be completed in approximately two months. I will keep you posted of developments. In the meantlme, I would appreciate any comments you might have. Richard J. Marcotullio RJM:wjs cc: C. Wrobleski - with attachments / ~s M,.7 r F_,. „ L ,_, ~._r,.,~i,rrd.. , ,. "/ ?S .1~ .-.-.. r f
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-2- the job. I.B.M. expects executives to wear white shirts and dark suits. K.F.C. expects store employees to wear a uniform, etc., etc. Within very wide parameters, bosses can get what they want. Faced with bosses who want no smoking, our customers can choose to become nonsmokers or they can choose to work somewhere else. In Chapter 8, Berger will do a superb job with the 1983 conference, but that's not wholly germane for our current situation. Today's more crucial conferences of anti-smokers are those sponsored by .business coalitions all over the country. Attendees can't be characterized as zealots or anti-free enterprisers or ivory tower theorists. They, look like our colleagues in the RJR family and their expressed motives are the same as ours - enhancing the values of their shareholders investments. They are convinced that banning or discouraging our products is one way they can further the basic corporate mission. . . . . I ~{gain, I appreciate the chance for review and commentary on this ~mportant document. De is Durden I cc Mr. Mr. A-Nfr. C. R. S. Tucker Sustana Witt
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. ,. I aJ1 ~.yV ~ ~)n t I nK AUSu b~b.a,....1 b ~ Ak ~ 'ID i \) c,,,, tl~ vY.. 15s C.l
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i -5- next annual SOD meeting be held November 1 and 2 in Amsterdam. Subsequent to the SOD meeting, Rothmans reported that Amsterdam might not be suitable due to weather conditions at that time of year. A new meeting site will be selected after discussion with member companies. Richard J. Narcotullio RJM/gr November 2, 1981 1 A 0 0 UI N• ED -4 W ~ W UJ m •
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-4- • After additional Regional Coordinators were put on hold until the next BOD meeting, it was agreed that an attempt will be made to identify an appropriate individual in a company who could, for a period of time, be an INFOTAB representative to work with a local company to help estab- lish an NMA in targeted countries. The AG will try to identify suitable candidates after clearing with the BOD the countries of interest. • The DCG expressed some disappointment about the development of economic impact models for developing countries, as well as the formation of new NMAs and strengthening of existing ones. • The DCG is about to complete a handbook on how to establish an NMA. • BAT expressed concern about INFOTAB making a direct contact with international organizations. Mary Covington assured them that this would not be done. 0 40 , • The 1982 EIU Desk Research Project concerning tar and nicotine yields in developing countries was rejected. It was felt that it was not a question for INFOTAB to police this issue and it should be up to each individual company to handle its own situation. 18. The Defense of Advertising Committee (DAC) presented a package of materials and programs to enable the industry to defend the right to advertise. The entire program is coming under the name of CATAC (Commitee Against Tobacco Advertising Censorship) and a presentation will be made at the NMA workshop in November. The rest of the DAC program and budget for 1982 were approved. 19. The EC Task Force report and budget for 1982 were approved. The single project in 1982 is a three-country study to demon- strate that smoking is unrelated to drug addiction. The pilot study in Germany should be ready for review by end 1981, with , Belgium and the U.K. to follow in mid 1982. 20. The Minutes of the SOD meeting of March 1981 reported that the recommended budget of $130,000 was approved for the•Fifth World Conference on Smoking and Health Task Force. At the most recent meeting, the SOD approved RJR's clarifying amendment reading "the 1981 budget of $3,000 for miscellaneous expenses was approved, and it was agreed that Jules Hartogh would work with the Secretary General to determine the nature and extent of a task force". No further mention was made of this subject. 21. The next SOD meeting will be held in Brussels on Friday, April 2. It was proposed by Rothmans, the next chairing company, that the
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Mr. E. A. Horrigan, Jr. Page -2- September 11, 1981 2. Issue - Public Smoking: The propused revised public smoking position paper represents a softening of the position on public smoking, making it appear to be another controversy rather than an issue without sound scientific evidence. A weak stance on public smoking would have obvious implications for the U.S. and would undermine recent efforts of the Tobacco Institute. Comments: 4 ` We feel it is important to determine Mary's views on public smoking and how she would like to position the issue. A second versioti of the revised paper has just been circulated, following a meeting and lengthy discussion between Tim Finnegan and Don Hoel, the latter being the paper's author. The extent to which the new version takes into account our concerns will be determined prior to the meeting with Mary. Overall comments of other INFOTAB member companies are: • Rothmans - While they had not yet reviewed the paper, they appeared sympathetic to our concerns and to the possibility of undercutting the Institute. • Philip Morris - Is reviewing the second version of the paper. The first one was considered to be "messy" and they would be concerned if the next version were to come out "soft", especially considering the Hirayama and Garfinkel activity. 0 1 4 • Imperial - While their initial reading of the position paper missed the positioning of public smoking as a controversy, they would be in accord with us if their re-reading produced the same conclusion. 3. Issue - IndustrY position on orimarv health issue and credibility: BAT, Bob Ely as SAWP Chairman and Mary Covington appear to be collaborating independent of other member companies, concerning primary issue. The draft SAWP report .to the Board contained proposed projects that were neither discussed nor agreed by SAWP itself. One proposal which arose out of discussions between Ely and Mary Covington would "engage outside consultant(s) to analyze how and what the industry communicates on primary health issues and to recommend improved communications messages and methods." Another has the general objective of "establishing dialogue with leaders of thought" by "preparing suitable presentations and initiating contact with various leaders of thought." BAT will apparently be making a presentation to the Board on this project. Ely introduced it by the comment, "Perhaps we should reassess our entire approach to the primary health issue and see whetherthere are .new ways of tackling it." Comments: 0 PMI, Rothmans and Imperial were all concerned about projects being proposed without SAWP agreement. More importantly, given Mary's apparent views on the primary issue, we have reservations about projects such as those described above. We feel it would be appropriate to provide more information about the projects and how she sees the primary issue being positioned. 16
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I r / M I M T0: Mr. Charles A. Tucker FROM: R. J. Marcotullio RE: INFOTAB - "Social Costs" Monograph Attached for your information are outlines of the "social costs" monograph and a list of contributors. As you know, the Tobacco Institute is providing half of the funding for the project and a copy of the attachment was recently sent to Bill Kloepfer. Please note that we have tentatively changed the working title from "Smoking and Society" to "Free to Smoke," although I feel the new title may be perceived as a slogan or message from the industry and it may produce antagonistic reactions. I will be discussing this further with our editor, Bob Tollison, and Chet Wrobleski. We anticipate the text of the monograph to be 90 percent completed in the next few weeks, after which we will be in a position to take it to various pub- lishers. We have felt that the circulation of a fairly complete manuscript would produce a better reaction and greater interest than merely circulating an outline. Publication is still planned by mid-1985. I will keep you advised of the project and would be pleased to respond to any comments or questions. RJM/gr 1: J F1.,.yiaJ41E 1'qlin. r;p mt•7•.apryn81. 1110. °n~°n N~12~BA .. November 9, 1984 Richard J. Marcotullio . 1 . :n a fo c.i cc: Mr. Dennis Durden ~ Attachment P111Nc$S c~h L p ,.1.4 n er„y t ~ LYNN'C~ IS'i C'• ^ hLeomt_1 L FOR hMI'fTh*r?N N O w ~ w N ~ ~ w
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Mr. E. A. Horrigan, Jr. Page -3- September 11, 1981 4 4. Issue - Whether appropriate legal advice on smoking and health issues is being given to the Secretariat and for all INFOTAB activitiest Don Hoel, as representing Shook, Hardy 6 Bacon, has at times been positioned as "legal advisor to the Secretariat." Various working parties produce documents and papers for which legal screening would appear appropriate. The Information System will store and disseminate a great deal of information and a clear system of legal screening does not appear to be in place. Analysts and documentalists will be hired by the Secretariat - who will train them? Comments: We feel it would be important to ask Mary how legal advice/screening ie or will be provided for the Secretariat and various INFOTAB activities. While each member company participates in the various working parties and ostensibly has the opportunity to obtain company legal review, initial drafts of minutes, papers, etc, should be screened before circulation. Information and documents emanating from the Secretariat itself should be screened prior to being put into circulation. The above are the issues which we think are fundamental and most important, but there may be others that Mary will raise herself. Our morning discussions with Mary should give us an indication of what is on her mind and if different from our issues we can so advise during our 1:30 meeting. RJM/CT:cgf cc: Mr. E. G. Vimond, Jr. Mr. S. B. Witt, III Mr. R. J. Marcotullio Mr. C. A. Tucker 'l *[
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-3- 12. Fundin for Scientific Research on Passive Smokin and Exchan e 0 n ormat on - It was conc u e t at fun ng was a rea y pT nned or ongoing and the communication, while not perfect, was taking place (but could be improved). The SOD approved the SG's request for advance information on research and she will informally request same from the TI, TAC and Verband. 13. INFOTAB Position -Pa-pe--r - The SG will re-draft it with "minor amen- am~ents '~d an member companies are to submit their suggestions. BAT raised its concern about Section 9, i.e. resisting legisla- tion versus voluntary agreements on advertising restrictions. The SG and Chair company agreed to re-draft that section for member company approval (attached). Generally, most companies felt we had to be flexible, depending upon the situation in each country. 14. BAT (Dr. Blackman) Presentation - While not endorsed by all ; compan es, it was agree t at it be given at the NMA Workshop + as a BAT presentation, not INFOTAB. 15. INFOTAB Reor anization - The SG explained that the Advisory Group AG an SG were to work as a team. Project leaders are to report to the AG on progress of projects or if a decision is needed. The SG's role is to oversee the project groups administratively, i.e. timetables, budgets, etc. The SG fur- • ,ther stated that no new projects or issues were to go to the BOD without AG approval. It was agreed that Mary Covington would chair the AG, as a "coordinating chairman." The AG will have its first meeting in Brussels on November 5, immediately following the NMA Workshop. The focus wilX be to review existing committee activities and see if the work should be ~ parceled out to smaller project teams. Company representatives to the AG are: A. Egerton (Rothmans); R. Ely (BAT); T. King (Imperial); R. Marcotullio (RJR); C. Vogel (Reemtsma) ; A. Whist (PM). 16. The Social Acceptability Working Party (SAWP) report and budget , were approved. Among the specifics are: cn • The 11-Nation Study on Attitudes on Smoking will be selec- ~ v tively updated. ~~ • A PR communications package on the social role of smoking will be prepared in 1982. A model(s) for conducting w ~ economic impact studies will be prepared. ~ • Efforts will continue to identify ways for dealing with alleged social costs, to include civil liberties, restric- tions in the workplace and the social role of smoking. ~ 17. The Developing Countries Group (DCG) report: N • The DCG felt that dividing the work among various project teams would yield better results than one standing committee. _ .. a ~ - ~ ~
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Major Decisions/Points of Discussion INFOTAB Board of Directors (BOD) Meeting October 5-6, 1981 • 0 0 1. Successor to secretary General (SG) - Mary Covington indicated she wants to return to PM the en of next year (and Huqh Cullman indicated PM wants her back). As to a successor, the BOD indi- cated its preference would be to find a SG from inside the industry, but a Deputy SG could come from without. 2. Swedish NMA - The staff is provided by the Swedish Tobacco Com- pany monopoly). The NMA is trying to draft a position on pro- posed new advertising restrictions. The BOD approved the SG's request to contact the Swedish NMA. 3. Phili ines NMA - PMI, as lead company, has agreed to try to react vate t e NMA. 4. Information Sxstem - Approval was given to implement the syster.. by entering ~.nto a time-sharing arrangement with IBM. Parameters of the system are: • computerization - only for publicly accessible information (committee materials, etc., to be kept manually) • no "sensitive information" is to be kept in a computer • abstracts - would cover only summaries, with no judgmental material • clearance - Shook, Hardy & Bacon will provide an analyst for training and will do spot-checks on the system 5. Budget (1981) - Approved. Contribution for 3rd/4th Qtr. not rec,sired. 0 6. 0 *Budget (1982) - Includes money for two Regional Coordinators, if approved, but does not include money for a permanent DSG. The budget was approved except as will be noted subsequently Re: committee programs/budgets. As to additional Regional Coordinators, the BOD decided: • to leave the money in the budget for 1982 • member companies are to suggest possible candidates to the SG • a decision will be made at the March BOD meeting whether to proceed • Regional Coordinators would work through affiliates/local industry, and not deal directly with government *RJR's 1982 contribution will be $446,740. 0 N J PIT'S, l °l a ~rT XA ~' . y~.~v:.iv~yaa,.....; ._; . ~' L~14/ Y•'R~"--- -~v
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I .. .1 \111n1a TO: Mr. E. A. Horrigan, Jr. M1rI02380MY-D FROM: R. J. Marcotullio 51N n April 6, 1983 RE: INFOTAB Board of Directors (SOD) Meeting -.April 12, 1983 - Brussels The following will provide highlights of the material in the binder for the BOD meeting, following the agenda outline: 1. Minutes of last Board Meetin - We approved the draft minutes without su mitting comments or amen ments. 2. Report from Secretary General (SG) 2.1 Overview of international develo ments - This one-page summary, w c s ou be rea , ig g ts con inuing WHO activity and the increasing threat of taxation. Of interest is the International Union of Advertisers Associations, which has agreed to work closely with INFOTAB and NMAs (the IUAA is seeking RJRTI membership). 2.2 Pro ects - The two-page summary provides a quick overview of the var ous projects. In the section following, further details are provided for the projects on taxation, social costs, economic impact models for less developed countries and Winnipeg (Fifth World Conference on Smoking and Health). An additional Ed27,862 has been included in the 1983 projects budget; much of which is for projects approved in 1982 but for which budgets were not finalized. The Secretariat is recommending that $100,000 in 1982 surplus funds and $40,000 in 1983 subscriptions be allocated to the 1983 projects budget. The Secretariat also recommends waiting until June 1983, when more refined budget figures will be available,'before determining whether additional funds should be sought from founding member companies. Comments: • Taxation should be reemphasized as perhaps the most pressing*issue. • The monograph on social costs/social values should be supported. While it will take at least a year to complete, we view it as being particularly helpful in the U.S. and it will also have applicability outside the U.S. The Tobacco Institute has also . FOR rD^:r,~
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0 INTER-OFFICE CORRESPONDENCE f R.J Reynolda Tohar.co International, Inc. April 16, 1981 . 6 ~ ~ ` ~ TO: Messrs. T. M. Finnegan C. A. Tucker RE: Social Costs/Social Values Project a At the INFOTAB Board of Directors meeting, Bob Ely reported that SAWP, at its next meeting , would re-examine the whole project, re-set obfectives, develop new strategies if necessary, develop new time spans, consider cutting out or modifying various elements, etc. Given past discussions within SAWP and the uneasy feeling on the part of several Board members about the whole proJect, 1 feel it would be aQyisable fgp us ~ oreoare a~'game olan° for the neYt ~AWP -meetjno~.e, outline a suanestion for SAWP's considerati_on nn_not onlv ow we fhenaTe tkAeconamfc arantation but what we do (or not) _with oth i , . rTm 1 , Rather than re-opening and replicating past SAWP discussions, I believe the' -group would appreciate suggestions for a redefined focus and, in turn, this would give us the opportunity to influence the shape of future activities. • rc.~.tiA • 1Fi o"F a a RJM/gr cc: Mr. S. B. Witt, III "J :marcot TTi"o u; ~ c.a FOp~:~~i~~?.'. LW~JT:Jk(;ci 1:?.: .
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TIH~ WALtSTREETJOUfiAL. N . ® 191d D,u b.n b C..,l•+rf.r• rln Ririn Rn.rvd. q.. • c.m.n lsinn.. ~' •lrig u t,tu7 e ompanies• Fight Bae WEDNESDAY, MAY lo, 1978 M1xsn., Mn Ja.sr • =%Ci:,VTS Seeking a Cure Companies Fight Back Agai: ~IlS;oaring Cost Of Metlical Coverage weapons Include Exerc•iu, Two Opininnt on SurKery And a Crackdown on Fees Ford Piara IISio of Its Own Ey Jt..a I Le.un gainst--~karing Costr,::, :; I~ Medical Coverage•,~;: •; • . ..:i..F• Ild Ercis eapons •ncuexee, . .;:. •., .. Two Opinions on Surg~r,y i And a Crackdown on Fecs'`~' ~ ord P1ans~HMO of Its O:w.~n '•',~'r'' _ ..,•t~.1. By JOANN S. LUBLIN "iJJNrporhrnJTn6wAL1.YT11Y.ISTJOUBMAI. i4EENAH, Wis.-About 20 flabby men d women huff and puff around an Indoor :ck at KlmberlyClark Corp.'s headquar• -s here. They Jog along four, running lanes a sprawltng, brightly painted exercise ilding. Backed up by an oxygen tank ,• a • -' nurses keeps a watchful eye on the ged runners. 1..,. employes are running for their lives 'evious illness, high blood pressure or ex• ss weight makes them prone to heart at• :ks. "This place was designed for me. I'm iing three miles every day," boasts one ; ger;-Stevenr'Samtr,-a7qyeara tdTesearctr :entist who had open•heart surgery last mmer. "Instead of•saying goodbye at 48, 1 ay say goodbye at 68. It's a good deal all -,jund-for me and for the company." The supervised exercise program is part .imberly-Clark's new, $2.5 million health• reening and fitness center, The diversified , anufacturer of paper products hopes for, a ng•term payoff: a slower rise in the Insur• :ce premiums it pays for employe health lefits• ~oerience Carries Weight fhe hope is based on the fact that an in• :rer's premium charges for an employe' •oup depend partly on the amounrthe in• :rer had to pay out for the group's medical cpenses In the past. Such-premiums cost• .mberlyClark $14.3 million In 1977, 75%. ^•e than in 1973, to cover 15,000 employes. r(imberlyClark's costlier health benefits .1 medical expenses generally, which oting up twice as fast as the con• :mer price index. It wasn't so long ago :at employers viewed health Insurance as i Inexpensive fringe benefit that could be ,hstituted.for pay increases. That Isn't the ~..e any more• For Ford Motor Co., for ex• :nple, it is the most expensive fringe bene• • costing the company an estimated 00 ;ion this year and d6A7 million next year, + lar?•" asser•ts John Woodlock, vice president .1. up from $450 million In 1977 desptte no in• crease In coverage. Altogether, U.S. businesses paid 25^ti of G! r• the nation's 5161 billion health bill last ycan . ' High Priority From GM spending about $40 billion that was tndl• But such gian•s as General Motors Co rectly paid by consumers. Ford, Deere & Co• and Goodyear Tire~& Many companies' premiums have''tltfu• bled in the past five years: these costs how"'.;; ;: Rubber Co., often working together with are so high that many firms, not Just.Kim•.`.. unions, are giving the problem top prlorlty.' berlyClark, are trying to do somethTng A recent survey by the President's Council about them, says Willis 8. Goldbeck, dfffcon Wage and Price Stability described 126 tor of the Washington Business Croup:.npmedlcai•cost•control programs organized•by Health, an organization of 155 ma)or''U!S:'":"m , employers or unions, half of them set up empinyers. sinc: 192?; T!o.unsons haw ata?asta double A Variety of Tactics • stake: When companies' medical,costs rise,... I~c"tits'have'flEsr'nfouey iur'wagt•• aM- Some companies are helping employes to ~ ' stay healthy through medical screening and creases; also, union members' monthly con- on•the•Job exercise regimens. Many emptoy tributions for medical coverage may.,rl¢e ers. In conJu/ic:.'MM with Insurers, are requir• ~ right along with the companies' premiums. There is, Indeed, a push to have em• ing'a second opinion before surgery or are .. cracking down on what they consider exces vlayes ; ay c L~,.:,n .tr a( eor¢ ~te R.:." sive doctor fees and unnecessary hospital lcal bills. Conttnental Illinois National Bank stays. A few are even tufn co .& Trust-Co,:ot•Chlcago has•more thaif~dou= g rporate mus• cle bleti•its•8,t10o employes'-tnonthly conttitw•• to block controversial hospital expansion Uons from $2.40 In 1975 to $5.41 at present, fo and construction. And there Is increased rovet a portlon of Continental's preml'ufi In~ business Interest in health maintenance or• ~ creases. And auto, wnrkers must help pay ganlzations, or HMOs, prepaid group•prac• for recently won health benefits, such. as ttce plans that emphasize preventive and dental coverage, vision care and dntgt; outpatient care over hospitalization. there was a time when the auto companles How much success concerns are having paid for everything. with all this Is open to debate, ^I don't see On• the other hand, one way to try to kelp employers having the Impact they could if they really wanted to make their purchasing premluins down b to oKer empioyes a dlt_ ~CtrR,tSefz-heaRET""~noe power felt," argues Douglas R. Brown, asso• aontstbutloos • for keeping healthy and tn shape. Mobil .clate,.professor_la•.the_health_program_at- .•Corp,,s V.000 U,S, employes are divided into Cornell University's graduate school of busi• :: .lA. RYt1e,[iCCel.-n6~ness and public administration. Some cdm• panles, he observes, are "averwhelmed by gy~ bonus. In 1977. the program's flrst year, hgo• the complexity of the problem" and frus' .' bll handed out $1.4 milllon_to ~i a00 •bm• trated by the lack of simple panaceas. -••x pJp~e P11rn to Pag'i tX"Lb~'dmti J. , t`nn//nnnlel 11. I lne. 1,,.. ••_ :._ l e hands. "In my judgment, there's nothing more that Continental Air Lines can -do other-than ask-our'peopl8'Ta more s• creet In how they spend their health dol•
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0~;,,,, .~ i W+,.frtw ~/!St Yirp { ht(. ~UL ~c;~Cl 4wa, awflGrt,~p - C~qtK~IVG ~ SotiErV .JACObS4i.axm' .0 4-. Wi+ d .:.' ; ~".,f"~.~-~ 1NN-mO PA PE K- 1~~eeWSep a% /kN /1p4~., .~i ~' Ca~~ F-~CliW f`oK. C~ A/A~ SOGJIG~e.. $rarrtr,a•M-- Lct~ rt4u,)sP .6,..V ,l.e -44D 4+ ~A ~1T s/~Ndo fI/ (ifL~lrlN/~'1 TVf~/ ~jJ~ ~ ' w 7 WIS7 ' . d ~ 0 AAetir `~l a Yirw~y. w1~~=e_vV . ~TC , fc.h.wr. N N ceq e». ~.r ..~' ~ile.« ao v. E /] W QovIcl AA O. / C D W r.'4e'O"A7" cvHIC Roaw, -
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~r `-,nii'r-z 1 ,,~r^Crmnrl.t ,- m/ 41 a '/ ~ . l v , I V . . J b. ~.. . ~ 1 ..a . i . Ln/j/0 • R rC r. s`v'. r; ry - ~ Date: November 13, 1984 Subject: Comment on Your :INFO~i'P~9 "Social Costs" Monodraph NrAl 16+AA To: Mr. R. Marcotullio a.a.w, From: Dennis Durden Thanks for letting me see your November 9, 1984 memo. Since we started studying these issues seven years ago, our competi- tors have grown and become more effective in at least three critical ways. Our competitors have enlisted growing business support for anti-smoking -efforts. They have spread their activities to public arenas at state and local levels, including initiative and referendum campaigns. They have spread their activities to private policy arenas like the workplace. Using these three strategies, they have by-passed our traditional public affairs defense lines of lobbyists in D.C. and the State. Houses. The net result are increased social and economic pressures on our ~ customers, pressures which the tobacco industry is very hard-pressed to counter. In view of these strategic shifts of recent years, you may want to rethink or supplement Chapters 6, 7 and 8 in the monograph. Events may have overtaken the original study outline, so much so that these sections may not be timely as they ought to be. Without modifica- tion, they could be like documents of the French general staff.- manuals for the previous conflict rather than the next one. Den Vyl is probably right in Chapter 6 when dealing with "public authorities" and the "state" in traditional public policy arenas. However, our colleagues in other businesses are making it private business policy practices to discourage smoking even where there are no public policy proscriptions. For example, there are strong anti-smoking activities by business in N.C.'s Research Triangle areas as well as in our textile industries. This occurs even though North Carolina's public policies are the nation's most favorable ones toward smoking. Concerns with civil liberties and public policy-making have little to do with this fast-growing sector of anti-smoking. The growth reflects the decisions of managers to encourage certain types of behavior by the employees of their businesses. This same theme carries over to Chapter 7. Today, employers are telling workers that being (or becoming) nonsmokers is the route to being hired, retained and promoted. Companies expect people not to drink on the job. More are expecting workers not to smoke on or off Pj~ 5 , _~ llv, ~ ;. )h1 . ' •Oti •Rl I/m .YAf {7 TID~p RJRI FORM 2422-Rft. 7/70 . _b71.~j;sil~a r
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• ?ART III - SANP 9UDGET Pa0p05ALS:FOR BALANCE OF 1979 pLUS:1990 - DENNIS Di3RD61t 40 Three major eSforts,compris4 line Item budget requests in.SAfiP's doswin. They are briefly reViawed here as batkgrormd for poy1e's fu(1 submission. A.. Continuatiom of Social Costs/Social VaTues'Study - (see appended letter fran Serman) • Balance 1979 . 1980. Vmoa. 197•9 #210;600 1988 ! 9 • • • B.. Countermeasures Development Work Pbrty (see appended tetex:fi^ao Corner) 1) BalAnce or• 1979' - Iduaaced work on cWntermoasures for "19$0 - Year of the 11on-Smoker" 60,000 2) 198D a. Further work on "Year of the Mon-Smoker" coentenneasures Z:445,000- SD,OOQ• bh Norkshop with.national associations on specific social costs/social vuatues counteneaasures growing out: of study 40,000; c. Contingencyfbr oountenneasura apportunities/requests fran:nattonai associations , 300000 C. Internatianal saminar om publii¢ smoking - a part of the countermeasures development propram, but fmportant enough to separate out fbr special treatment. 1) Histary o C thts proposal 2 Ibrkload iWieations for SAWP & ICOST 3 Relet•ton to EEC proposal 4 Spectal implications for IECSt'a relationships with major associetiom 6) 1980 estimatsd costs ---------------- ------- ~,.f~:f 2 tt~ I 350 000 s~as;aas F0R1r1M,1191a6T1N ..... • LY~N!!'::A{ C~, 531;". G,~f) M 1•
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 2 April 6, 1983 already found the work of the social costs project helpful, ~011) particularly concerning smoking in the workplace. • The various projects dealing with advertising restrictions are '• U "• /. progressing very well. The International Advertising Association -14 (IAA) has agreed to publish a revision of the CATAC Five Arguments ~° v document to be used with advertising agency personnel and will ~~ 8r~ also publish a manuscript on advertising and its relation to ~ consumption. • Winnipeg Conference - It should be reemphasized that INFOTAB should maintain the lowest possible profile so as not to create an event. 2.3 Information Services - This section outlines reports and regular in ormation issem nated by INFOTAB, responses to requests for tailored information, assistance to project teams, personnel and future plans (e.g. possible member company and NMA access to the computerized data base in 1984). Comment: The Information Services section of INFOTAB has done an excellent job and the material produced has been very helpful. 2.4 1982 Financial Statements and Audit - An auditor's report is included. The accountants a so prov e a memorandum making several reconmen- dations concerning accounting procedures and internal controls. All recommendations have either already been implemented or are'in the process of being implemented. ^ The binder contains a comparison between 1981 and 1982 budgets. The ~ total 1981 budget was.$1,492,703 versus $2,114,574 in 1982. Approxi- mately $500,000 is.attributable to staff additions and increases i ~"n salaries ($263,962), social charges ($93,981), allowances ()57,186) and increased travel expenses ($101,399). Other significant increases, were in equipment rental ($28,799) and communications ($15,751). The 1982 project expenses were $131,558 less than 1981. 3. Plans and Proposals for Future Activities 3.1 Social Acce tabit~it - At the last meeting, the BOD emphasized the impor ance o dealing with the social acceptability issues. The report from the Secretariat reviews past activity in the area of social acceptability, including SAWP activity, the social values project and the public smoking film. The report also outlines activities in 10 NMAs dealing with social acceptability." INFOTAB and the AG will treat this as a rity issue and future activities will include7 • Encouraging NMAs to disseminate material adapted from pieces, already successfully used by other NMAs.
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-2- 7. Expanding the Membership - The SOD decided that manufacturing companies were the first priority as associate members, and would be recruited as per discussion, i.e. a company were less than 50% government held, it could qualify for associate membership. If more than 50% (e.g. Swedish Tobacco Company), allied membership. E. Horrigan to contact L6M and Lorrillard to see if they are interested in becoming associate members. Member companies are to send the SG ideas on NMA membership and possible allied members, for the next BOD meeting. The proposal for a formal consultative group of NMAS was not approved. ! A 8. WHO - Is apparently more influenced by devel_ oQed countries than previously thought. NMAs were viewed as t~tie appropriate bodies to make contacts with UN agencies, not INFOTAB. The SG was requested to prepare a paper for use by NMAs in contacting key people in national.governments' overseas affairs departments, for use in counter-balancing the WHO (NMAs to decide the best channels). The SG indicated a preliminary report on the WHO by InterMatrix consultants has been prepareL.La~1.,,, ;;.~( ( 9. White Pa er on Primar Health Issues - The SG statedJ she felt a nee to ea w t more t an t e question of causation; to deal with the concerns of reasonable government people; to not draw final conclusions; to prov e an array of "both sides," i.e. a more statesman-like paper. Imperial indicated it was reevaluating its position and will take a "more aggressive" stance, based on legal advice that it can "say much more." It sees the purpose of the paper being to let the industry become much more visible. Don Hoel indicated he wanted to reserve the right to advise his clients on areas not acceptable to the U.S. He stated the U.S. product liability position has to be maintained and extended beyond the U.S. (even where there is no local product liability threat). ~ The SOD approved Imperial's offer to prepare a draft paper to be sent to member companies and the SG. The companies will then send comments to the SG to produce one paper for circulation. 10. Code of Marketin Practices - The SOD was not interested in it a re ecte pursu ng t~u`rther. Voluntary Caution Notices - The SOD was unanimously opposed. r ~ N
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 7 April 6, 1983 • Relationship with monopolies - maintain informal contacts for now. • Classes of potential allied members - leaf dealers and international machinery manufacturers. • Credibility/media relations. • Budget - new dues formula to be approved. • Regional Coordination. • Middle East. It would be helpful if we could have a review session prior to the 80D meeting. ic ar~ T. MSrcotullio RJM/gr Attachments
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I / / INFOTAB 800 Mecting, April 1983 Page 3 April 6, 1983 • Regional coordinators will present material to NMAs and, where necessary, provide assistance in preparation and printing. • NMAs will be encouraged to use the several films available. • Further consideration will be given to making use of the Feinhandler material. • Social costs project team will arrange publication of economic material and a suitable journal during 1983. / 4 / 1 4 N 4 The SG will give a slide presentation on social acceptability at the [/ meeting. 3.2 Re ional Coordination - The BOD requested the SG to report on reg ona coorna i-on, with emphasis on the Middle East and African activities. • Middle East - The Middle East Working Group (Chairman, Jack Picton) is viewed as a useful forum for harmonizing the approach to labeling and advertising procedures. The industry lacks a presence in the area and has to rely on advertising agencies and distributors, with the latter unwilling to get involved in smoking and health issues. Advertising argumentation is being prepared for use by agencies in the Gulf. Member companies are working with the various governments• on "tar" and nicotine levels and tolerances as well as testing ~ procedures. Smoking and health conferences are also being n monitored. ~ Comment: As Bryan Simpson mentioned during his visit, Jack Picton N) wi1T probably remain as regional coordinator for one more year. • Africa - The regional coordinator has visited Nigeria, Zimbabwe and Zambia (report in the binder). The Africa consultant has visited Ethiopia, CameroonS and Benin (report in the binder). AIA Comment: The first trip report of the Africa consultant indicated )lAOA e"~ad-discussed with a British embassy official in Ethiopia the possibility of tobacco industry assistance to the Ethiopian mono- ~ poly in improving the local production of cigarettes. After reading the report I advised Bryan Simpson that I thought the consultant was exceeding his authority and getting involved in a competitive issue. Bryan indicated the whole question of continuing with the u, consultant will probably come up at the BOD meeting and that other N' member companies are concerned. ~ • Asia - The Malaysian NMA is doing an economic impact study, ~ with the assistance of INFOTAB, to be completed in May. The W second Asia workshop will be held in Hong Kong on May 23-26. Lead companies have been established in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 6 April 6, 1983 and geographic coverage. The SG has outlined his views on national and international objectives for INFUTAB and its strategic role. He also made some amendments to the 1980 paper on objectives, strategies and structure. These items were prepared without any input from the AG and some members are concerned that the AG should have been consulted. Concerning the objectives and strategies revised paper, the following are the more significant changes made: • Adding taxation and passive smoking to the list of priorities to be addressed (page 3). • On pages 12 and 13 the specific phrase "regional coordinator" has been deleted and replaced with references to "sufficient senior staff qualified to represent INFOTAB in other regions" and "executives responsible for servicing the regions." • On page 14 the position of Deputy Secretary General has been added to the organization chart (the SG to make a recomnendation at a later date). • On page 15 the Advisory Group is positioned as assisting and advising the Secretary General rather than the Board. This would appear not to take into consideration the lengthy discussions that led to the creation of the AG and the agreement at the October 1981 BOD meeting that "the Advisory Group, chaired by the Secretary General, would report to the Board of Directors." 7. ~Res_lnation from the Board- Kit Stewart Lockhart will be resigning from the B at t e meet ng, ue to his retirement frbm BAT. Mr. T. J. Tice is the replacement proposed by BAT. 8. Chairin Com an Hand Over- Imperial will take over as chair company until pr , 1984, a er w~i-cFi RJR will become chair company. 9. Next Board Meetin and 1983 General Meetin - The binder incorrectly lists t e ates or t e cto er meeting. The agreed-upon dates are October 29, arrival; October 30 and 31 BOD meeting. Imperial will host. During his visit last week Bryan Simpson indicated that the SOD meeting will be conducted on the basis of assuming that everyone has read the material in the binder. Sections 2, 3, 5 and 6 have additional dividers. The material preceed- ing the divider is the summary of the particular issue; the material following the divider is for those who wish additional details. The topics which are likely to arise for discussion are: • Taxation - a brief presentation will be given by the project team• leader. • Social Acceptability - the SG has prepared a slide presentation. • Winnipeg - full report in the binder.
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 4 April 6, 1983 An NMA will probably be formed in Pakistan and efforts are underway to establish a formal NMA in Hong Kong. A brief report from the regional coordinator is in the binder. • The re ional coordination function - The SG is requesting time ? to rev ew the w o e unct on o regional coordination in order to report at the October BOD meeting. A decision on a coor- dinator for Latin America is being postponed until that time. While the AG supports the concept of regional coordination, BAt management now appear to be opposed to it. Comment: The AG feels there is no need to postpone the decision for s x months and feels the SG should be in a position to make a recom- mendation at the July AG meeting. I 3.3 Plans for Winni e- Full reports are in the binder behind Item 2. Afi e iere s a good plan and organization, we should again caution against an overkill. ~~ 3.4 Annual NMA Workshop shop - Will be held at the Mayflower Hotel in ~c~~ as ngton, September 20-22. Andrew Reid, as the chairman of the C i' .J BOD, will participate. The TI is providing staff support. ;Z~ 3.5 Membershi - There are now 37 members in the various categories, inc u ng Universal Leaf Company and Thorpe and Ricks. Efforts will be made to extend membership with leaf dealers and international machinery suppliers. The Swedish Tobacco Company will probably be offered membership but contact with other monopolies will remain informal. The Associate Members have elected Mr. F. J. Janet of Burrus to represent them as an observer on the INFOTAB Board and he will attend the April 800 meeting. 7 3.6 First Revised 1983 Bud et and Contributions - The/total 1983 budget s , 99 , , compare w t , , n 1982 The Secretariat portion is $1,938,645 for 1983 versus $1,447,$ 7 in 1982. Major areas of increase include salaries - up f181;488; social charges - up $109,596; equipment rentals - up $53,935; and meeting expenses - up $35,826. The 1983 projects budget is E661,500 versus $566,717 in 1982. The 1983 contributions will still be determined under the system whereby 50 percent of the total budget is split equally by the founding member companies, with the remaining 50 percent calculated at the percentages based n•saaes-:reNue. RJR's total contributions for 1983 are calculate at $495,722 less there is an'increased projects budget). 4. Annual Dues - As you will recall, Reemtsma initiated a review of the curren ues structure and there was a general concern that both Reemtsma and Imperial were paying a disproportionately high share which might
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 5 April 6, 1983 cause one or both of them to reconsider INFOTAB membership. The AG reviewed several options and initially agreed to a formula for 1984 and beyond whereby each member company would pay a fixed annual contribution of $160,000 with the remaining budget to be shared on the basis of the current percentage allocations. The BOD will be asked to approve the new formula. If the new formula were applied to the 1983 budget, RJR's con- tributions would increase by E5,454. Comroent: The current percentages are calculated on the basis of total oacco sales value as reported in company consolidated accounts, less • taxes an u~d t~es; and converted to U.S. dollars. This formula was agreed to in 1980 and there has been no update since that time. If requested by the BOD, the accountants are prepared to update the percentages, but I am not sure that would be in our best interests. An update would presumably involve more recent sales figures as well as revised currency exchange rates (the system calls for using the yearly average exchange rates per the New York exchange market). Attached is a worksheet I have prepared which shows the existing formula (1980 basis) followed by the same sales figures converted at 1982 actual and 1983 projected exchange rates. In . both of the last two examples, the RJR percentage would increase by approximately 2 percent. What I do not know is how this would change if the sales figures were updated. If the formula were to be reviewed completely, it would also have to include a reexamination of the basis for the formula itself, i.e. sales value versus total unit sales, and- how companies report sales value figures, i.e. consolidation. Bottom µ" line, while we approved of the current formula in 1980 it is hard to understand how BAT has a 26 percent allocation and RJR a 23 percent allocation when total BAT unit volume is approximately twice that of RJR. We should discuss this por to the BOD meeting. 5. The Credibilit Issue- This is on the agenda as a result of comments at t e last BUO meet ng, particularly by Andrew Reid. The paper which is ' referenced but not contained in the BOD binder is attached for your infor- mation. It will provide the basis for discussion at the May AG meeting. . 5.1 Media Relations- This section raises the question of how one can a ance t amount of adverse news affecting the tobacco industry through international news agencies, particularly in the Third World. It is suggested that NMAs, with assistance from INFOTAB, could generate releases when material becomes available. It is possible that contacts with Rupert Murdoch might come up during the discussion period. Vernon Brink and Andrew Reid both had lunch with Murdoch in London and PMI met with him in New York. Advertising restrictions and taxation were the two main, issues discussed. Murdoch has told Bryan Simpson that if anyone from RJR wi11 be in New York during the period April 18-22 and April' 25-29 he would enjoy a luncheon meeting. 6. INFOTAB Objectives- This is in response to, a request at the last meeting t aTi t tfie'3~ rea'ssess INFDTAB's mission and determine priorities and issues. J
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INFOTAB BOD Meeting, April 1983 Page 4 April 6, 1983 An NMA will probably be formed in Pakistan and efforts are underway to establish a formal NMA in Hong Kong. A brief report from the regional coordinator is in the binder. . The re ional coordination function - The SG is requesting time ~ to review t e w o e unct on o regional coordination in order to report at the October BOD meeting. A decision on a coor- dinator for Latin America is being postponed until that time. While the AG supports the concept of regional coordination,,~AT management now appear to be opposed to it. Comment: The AG feels there is no need to postpone the decision for s x months and feels the SG should be in a position to make a recom- mendation at the July AG meeting, 3.3 Plans for ~W~~inni ~eg - Full reports are in the binder behind Item 2. ii T-e t~er--e is a good plan and organization, we should again caution against an overkill. 3.4 Annual NMA Worksho - Will be held at the Mayflower Hotel in as ngton, eptem er 20-22. Andrew Reid, as the chairman of the BOD, will participate. The TI is providing staff support. ~ 3.5 Membershi - There are now 37 members in the various categories, nc u ng niversal Leaf Company and Thorpe and Ricks. Efforts will be made to extend membership with leaf dealers and international machinery suppliers. The Swedish Tobacco Company will probably be offered membership but contact with other monopolies will remain informal. The Associate Members have elected Mr. F. J. Janet of Burrus to represent them as an observer on the INFOTAB Board and he will attend the April BOD meeting. 'J e 3.6 First Revised 1983 Bud et and Contributions - The/total 1983 budget s , , , compare w t , , n 1982 The Secretariat portion is $1,938,645 for 1983 versus E1,447,in 1982. Major areas of increase include salaries - up ;181;488; social charges - cn up $109,596; equipment rentals - up $53,935; and meeting expenses - Ln up $35,826. The 1983 projects budget is $661,500 versus $566,717 in r1982. -11 w ~ The 1983 contributions will still be determined under the system ~ whereby 50 percent of the total budget is split equally by the founding member companies, with the remaining 50 percent calculated at the percentages based n-ieaes:Tevcque. RJR's total contributions for 1983 are calculate at $495,722 less there is an'increased u, projects budget). ,,°, 0 ° 4. Annual Dues - As you will recall, Reemtsma initiated a review of the currentaues structure and there was a general concern that both Reemtsma and Imperial were paying a disproportionately high share which might P
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• .. • • • • • • • R.J.Reynolds Tobacco Internetlonal, Inc. Winston•Salam, N.(:. 2%10? (919) 777•4100 February 25, 1962 TO: Dr. Frank G. Colby RE: INFOTAB INFOTAB has requested assistance from member companies, and RJR specifically, in two regards. First, as a part of the INFOTAB data base, they are looking for material describing accepted and proposed testing methods and standards for constituents "such as 'tar', nicotine, carbon monoxide, nitrogen monoxide and any other product components - FTC, CORESTA, DHSS norms." Do you have any documents which could assist INFOTAB in this regard. Second, Antonietta Corti has requested that I ask you specifically if you would be able to lend any assistance on administrative aspects of setting up their information system. Specifically, Antonietta is interested in knowing whether or not there is any- one who would be available to spend approximately two weeks in Brussels helping the librarian, documentalist, etc. in setting up a data base. May I suggest that in regard to this request you contact Antonietta directly to determine more precisely the type of assistance she needs. Your consideration of these requests is most appreciated. ~ aik;c~t~o'~~ ctar . Marcotu o/ • RJM/gr w ~ ~ m m w m . pI r LYNl~ ~K :" p~ t. .; ! E4TfJE~S 4' ~ ~
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0 • 0 • • 0 • * 0 INTER-COMPANY CORRESPONDENCE R.J.RoynoldsTobacco Intornottonbl, Inc. WinslonSalum, N. C. 27102 I °n~°n December 26, 1979 TO: Dr. Frank G. Colby FROMs Richard J. Marcotullio SUBJECT: Cold Spring Harbor Meeting - October 1979 Your December 5, 1979 memo to Max Crohn on the above topic indicated that complete transcripts of the meetings will be available in the near future. I would be very interested in receiving a copy of the presentation by Brian Richter of Enviro Control Inc., entitled "Macro-ECOnomics of the Prevention of Tobacco-related Diseases". His paper is of particular interest regarding his conclusions on the alleged "social cost" of smoking. . tc-lt.h. R c ar J. roo u o RJM/gr cc: Max H. Croh~n, Jr. Mr. Charies A. Tucker Mr. Samuel B. Witt, III x 4~q Itety /'?'&lpR6ycl. . .d/1pf9 - f-R~ -Ve4 cc t0o4Z.o dluPh fo ~ ,~ . DEC 2 8 1971 F~~;... . .
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Seeking a Cure: Firms Fight Back Against Rising Medical-Plan Costs Confinued From Firsf Pagr gan a year ago. (Two of the six didn't have ployes In nine Vups; the average worker ! the operation alter all.l Patlents appoar to who benefited received about 555. Cost•conttnl moves are becoming quite sophisticated. Rockwell (nternntlbnal hhs computerized Its quarterly "trend report" to spot unusual doctor or hospital bills. Not long ago, the report showed that one physi• clan had,done 30 of the 100 operations per• .(or,rned on one plant's employcs that quar• ''tec,$very one of the 30 was a broncho• scopy, an exploratory lung operation. ."There shouldn't have been that many people with lung problems," says Edwin McManus, a Rockwell staff vice president. A Rockwell Insurance consultant visited the doctor, who owned the local profit•making hospital. The consultant suggested that the physician perform bronchoscopies only when they were "absolutely necessary." The result? "All this bronchoscopy activity was• brought to a stop," Mr. McManus rc• ports.. Motorola Inc. helped set up and finana! a hospltal•admissions program In Phoenix, Ariz., that Is saving it more than SA00,000 annunlly In avoided or rednced hospitalizo• tlon for its 43,000 Phoenix•area employcs and their families. As Arizona's largest em• ployer, Motorola used Its lnfluence to get the program launched through the Maricopa Foundation for. Medical Care,, a physician group. - Before a Motorola, worker enters a hospl• ta! (or scheduled tests or surge.ry, founda• tion doctors must agree that the hospltallza• tfon Is necessary. They typically refuse np- proval for most diagnostic tests or such pro- _edures as tonsillectomies and abortions• suggesting that the tests or surgery be done n•an•outpatient clinic Instead. Hospitaliza• yon for "vague diagnoses, such as lower in• 'esthtal pain" is rejected, too, "unless the Datlent is really In terrific pain," observes t,nNony Stitten, foundation executive dtrec• ~or. Continental Bank, GM, Ford, Chrysler md-Mobll?ecently'began to pay for their +'orkers to get a "second surgical opinion." 'he Idea Is that a second surgeon may sug• ;est a cheaper but equally effective treat• rent. be reluctant to question their doctors' Judg• ment. "It they do• and he ends up performing the operation anyhow, they think he may be irritated enough that he'll leave a sponge in them to get even,': suggests James Morti• mer, Continental's manager for personnel• employe benefits. In fact• a physician boycott has crippled the second•opinion program launched last July by Blue Cross, the United Auto Work• ers and the big three auto makers in Mfchl• gan. The state's medical society voted not to participate, conteriding that "it interferes with the doctor•patient relationship," _Several concerns are abandoning routine annual physicals for employes because the exams detect too few serious medical prob• lems to be cost•effective. For example. Gen• eraf Mills Inc. now administers yearly phys• icals to just 1,{00 of its'3,000 Minneapolis• area staffets; these people are overweight. over 50 or work In hazardous jobs: Some expers see more merit in the ex• tersive prevention programs and exercise facllltles popping up at Standard Oil Co. (Indianal; New York Telephone Co., Exxon Cory., KimberlyClark and other companies. At KimberlyClark, 1,215 of the 2•100 eii• gible salnried employes have partfcipatott in the company's voluntary hcalth•mnnage• mont program since the center opened last September here In Nncnah, Do milca north of Milwaukee. To use the exerclse facility, staffers rtlust fir9t undergo a rigorous f'it• ness screening that Includcs a treadmill test and txxiyfat mansurement. Computerized results pmfilr. each per• son's "heaUh••Isk". age. If he Is in poor shnpe, thc •health•risk age soars, One 14• year•old mailroom clerk was told he had the body of a 63•year-old because he was 30 pounds overweight and had high cholesterol levels. "That makes people slt up and take notice•" says Dr. Robert A. Ikdmon, staff vice president (or medical affairs. After thus getting an employe's attention, Dr. Dedmon typically Isstes an indivldunl• Ized "health prescription," The thoroughly •shaken employe usually chooses a regimen -xerclse, for Instance ~J such as regular laps in the pool,jogging on That happened to James Sauls. a 2a•year• II the indoor track, jumping rope or exercise :Id Continental portfolio adviser. After an ' classes. Each regimen Is dr.slgncd to grad• :r,hopedic svrgeon recommended surgery or his bad knee• he got a second opinion. '1e second physician prescribed exercise in• 'tead. "I don't get shoot!ng pains any nore," Mr. Sauls says• "and I'm very •.appy I didn't have an operation," Rut only six of an estimated 185 bank em• -loyes and family members- who planned '.ective surgery have sought second optn• l' b U l ff ' unlty build up speed and endurancc. Cnmmunity invoivemenris another front whcre private Inrlustry Is tackling nrnawny health costs. For ycars, hospitals eagerly sought businessmen as trustees because they helped raise funds for new buildings and fancy medical equipment. But econo- mists now blame much of health inflation on excess hospital beds and duplicated ser• "Don't Check Your Brains" To raise these officials' "cost conscious ness," Aluminum Co• of America and Ger eral Motors give them special training. " tell thcm• 'Don't check your brains at Nf board•room door. Remain the same kfnd o questioning human beings you are in busi' " ness,' " says Victor t{, 21nk. GM director c employe benefits and services. There is also greater employer interes In cutting medical bills through health mair tenance organizations:_In-an H,titO, salarie: ~ physicians provide a complete range o medical services In a single, cllnic•like sec ting. They have an Incentive to hold dowt hospital use because subscribers pay a fla fee in advance; if a subscribei has to ente. ~ a hospital, the H,HO has to pay the hospita costs. HMOs have consistently claimed tha they lower the overall cost of medical carE by anywhere from 10% to 90%. Ford is saving S2 million a year from HMO participutinn by 10,000 employes, nr 'Jtut i% of its U.S. work force. sitys Jack K. Shelton, employc•Insurance manager• (2. J. Reynolds Industries recently spent $3.2 mil- lion to build and staff an HMO (or Its V' workers In Winston•Salem. N.C. The hk tallzation rate among Reynolds workers there fell by one•half within three months af, I ter the plan began last July. Ford alsn has dec:ded to btdld an HHO of its nwn, in the Detrolt area. Industrialist Henry J. Kaiser pmneered the HMO idea in the early t910s when he asked a young surgeon to provide prepaid. comprehensive health care for employes !n the Kaiser shipbuilding empire. The Kaiser• Permanente medical•care program now has three million members• and most don't work for Kaiser. A 19i3 federal law requires employcrs with 25 or more workers to offer the IfMC option if a federally qualified plan exists in the viclnlry.,t Kaiser and about 160 other I plans now exist nationwide.~ns The HMOs enrollment of 6.3 million pe are primarily run by Insurance carriers, physician group practices. Blue Cross plans. hospitals and consumer groups. The number of HMOs is likely to increase soon. On March 10• senior executives fror, = of the S00 largest U.S. corporations ant 200 labor leaders attended a federal HMC conference, the first of its kind. They heart the Secretary of Health, Education and w-' (are,.Joseph A. Callfano Jr., estimate big business could have saved up to 4- mlllton last year if just 5% of the employes of Fortune 500 companies belonged t< HINOs• a nent s vo e untary e ort ms stnce Con ; v.,r inn, tTun nf rhn six vices. prompting-many buslnessman trus •.. , didn't hsvn tees to vote against such projects.
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Phill,p Morris wrfting 70:4, 7, 8, 18; 110:24;111:1;117:7; 211:10; 224:23; 225:10 wrltten 58:3, 7;109:21; 124:1; 136:4; 141:23; 163:5; 179:4; 213:18; 221:20,25;224:10,13,24 wrong 70:1; 78:17; 113:4; 133:23; 190: 18; 220:3; 229:12 wrote 59:10;112:6,15; 119:9;124:4;143:10,13; 162:73,14;177:4; 225:5 Y Yeah 8:5; 13:10; 17:23; 20:4; 22:15; 27:15; 41:3; 44:7; 45:2; 47:15; 52:19; 58:14; 59:4, 23; 62:4; 71:25; 82:12; 84:11; 88:8; 100:7;102:18; I09:7; 115:19;131:22;148:20; 158: 18; 162:4; 167:11; 179:11; 182:17; 183:6; 207:21; 212:6; 217:23; 223:22 year 10:8; 17:19; 62:3; 181:21;187:12 year's 200:16 years 10:18, 24;12:1; 17:20; 23:12; 24:13, 21; 26:12; 27:18; 40:1; 43:3, 6; 62:15; 77:20; 86:22; 93:14;111:16;124:13; 1327;167:15;183:11,13; 193:4; 208:8; 216:5; 217:12 York 9:22; 10:2,7 young 12:3 yours 166:6 z zealots 17Q:7 Richard J. Marcotuuo October 30, 1998 Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Scripte (19) writing • zealo
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Lawyer's Notes tn
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris executlve 23:25; 98:15, 22;99:1;107:24; 208:4; 165:10; 174:24; 180:10; 181:8; 183:18,21; 188:8 exercise 66:7 exhaie 71.18 Exhibit 8:15,19, 23; 33:3, 6; 37:2,17; 40:17; 41:2, 5; 45:20; 53:17,19; 59:6; 61:16,18,19;67:20,23; 77:24; 78:2; 88:7; 89:7, 9; 98:7, 10; 100:3; 101:21; 106:22; 107:6; 118:3,6; 123:21, 24;125:5;138:3, 5;139:17;140:7;153:9, 11; 156:24; 157:1; 159:8; 160:3; 161:23,25; 165:22; 166:13,15;171:11,14; 176:22; 177:1; 184:25; 186:17,19; 188:13; 192:4, 9; 193:12,14; 197:15,18; 199:7, 9; 202:21, 23; 213:16 exhibits 157:10,11 existed 129:20 existence 123:19; 126:9; 187:15; 206:5 existing 132:22 exists 132:22 expect 156:13; 208:9 expended 165:5 expendltures 63:16 expense 130:8,11 expenses 63:23; 131:4, 18 experience 17:16; 18:7; 25:4;195:10;217:17 expert 137:12;141:14 expertise 31:7; 69:23; 131:10,12; 141:7,9; 142:14; 218:2; 225:13 explain 117:10, 11 explained 1.37:25 explalning 117:8 explanation 138:2 explicniy 77:9 express 95:8; 186:1; 224:4 expressed 67:8; 70:6; 112:19;139:111,140:22; 188:10; 195:2; 229:8,13, 20 expresses 12:22; 62:18 expreasing 225:1; 227:24 expresslon 12:11;13:4 extended 186:8; 189:19 extensivety 45:19 extent 210:3; 212:15; 228:20 external 11:19; 53:12 externaiized 87:22 extremely 16:19;75:16; 152:11 F Fo-1-I-nre-r 23:21 F-o-r-e-rrfa-n 23:20 facllitbs 184:10 fact 26:1; 50:1,17; 63:15; 74:12;103:20;110:16; 125:3;131:24;134:17; 137:11;153:2;157:18; 172:24; 212:18; 228:20; 229:24 fair 8:1; 29:15; 34:12; 55:17; 59:1; 67:12; 68:25; 77:22; 84:8, 25; 85:3, 5, 9; 91,20;123:17;130:17; 132:1, 24;135:18;149:10; 151:4;161:1;164:8; 165:14,18;175:3;191:1, 18;201:17;220:18; 225c23 fairly 111:1; 200:23; 201:4 fallacious 69:3 fallaclousness 69:14 familiar 32:18, 20; 37:16; 40:23; 72:4; 99:13; 183:3 familiarity 98:19 family 11:5; 18:20,23; 180:12 far 13:22; 29:8;140:23; 175:7; 206:6; 208:23; 211:8 faster 59:9 tax 207:4, 5, 9 February 61:21; 202:25 Federal 7:19 Federation 219:16 fool 7:21; 44:9; 54:20; 55:4;114:4;167:9;195:7 feeling 192:22;193:1 feelings 62:23; 65:4; 70:4 feeb 125:10 Felnhandler163:24; 164:1, 21, 22, 23; 210:15, 16 fell 46:20 feR 42:19; 93:2; 126:1; 178:12; 189:6; 192:24; 195:15 fend 93:24 few 11:5; 23:12;193:8; 214:12,14; 216:2 fleid 10:11;11:1 ftfth 77:8; 93:22; 167:25 flght123:13;228:24 figure 105:17; 135:11 fIle 184:16 fises 9:4; 37:7; 179:25; 208:16 fiiing 182:22 flll 164:3 fills 71:12 filters 27:22 finalized 174:8 financlal 81:19; 88:10, 25;113:25;116:18 find 96:19; 97:8,10; 129:20; 135:11; 137:18; 145:21;146:17,19; 198:17;206:21;208:4; 220:13; 222:23 finds 202:17 fine 21:7; 31:25; 36:9; 60:6;61:5;71:1;90:9; 109:15; 117:9, 10; 137:14; 151:11; 152:23 fingers 71:23 finish 59:14; 152:24 tinlshed 153:6 Finnegan 122:15 firm 122:14 first 7:5;10;19;19;5,18; 22:11; 40:24; 55:14; 56:1; 59:5; 62:12; 76:19; 78:10, 10; 79:13; 80:5; 86:22; 89c21; 96:14; 98:21; 112:11;119:10;136:24; 138:9; 141:19; 154:10; 166:1; I77:8;185:8; 197:19; 203:6 fisherman 213:7 f il 49:20; 72:21; 164:2 five 182;18 flag 55:14 flu 28:10 tly 213:7 focus 68:16; 76:15; 125:7;138:18;170:25; 173:4,16;177:23 focused 75:17 focusing 17:6; 97:16 Folimer 23:21 follow 70:14; 172:16; 212:23,24 follow-up 133:7, 9; 229:1 followed 123:18 following 122:5 follows 7:6; 90:25 force 148:7;149:11 forces 146:9, 25;147:6, 8,22; 148:17; 149:24; 150:9; 153:4; 161:9; 229:21 foregoing 231:11 Foreman 23:20 forget 98:6 form 12:16,17; 15:9; 49:11; 53:2; 59:19; 60:8; 64:10; 65:23; 66:23; 67:1; 69:17; 82:22; 91:21; 93:11;110:21;125:20; 126:3;127:7,17, 25; 129:9; 132:12,25;133:17; 134:15;135:3, 21;139:18; 148:19,20;167:8,18,19; 172:12; 174:4; 175:20,25; 186:11;190:11; 211:2; 221;13;227:10 format 162:15 formative 43:6 formed 217:15; 218:25 former 123:7; 213:6; 228:17 formulate 131:19 forte 31:8 forth 96:20;123:9; 181:21 forum 42:13 forward 151:20;171:4,5; 227:9 Found 27:25; 28:7, 22; 70:10; 137:20; 217:12, 23; 218:2 foundation 17:11;49:12; 83:25; 96:10;104:16; 105:9; 106:10; 110:6; 127:8,18; 129:4, 11; 134:8; 135:14,17; 139:19; 145:22;148:9;149:15; 161:12;175:4;176:1; 189:25; 191:20; 212:21; 227:4 foundatlons 89:3 four 97:8; 182:18 four-page 124:3; 157:5 fourth 167:14 frame 14:11;17:3; 27:2; 35:20; 45:13;136:18 France 106:3 frankly 27:15;182:24 free 167:9; 194:18; 195:1, 8, 23;196:3, 5, 6,10,15; 197:4 Freedlander 164:19,19; 210:14 Freedlander's 164:20 froedom 77:11 Freelander 164:12,16 frequent 16:10 frequently 185:14 Friday 7:1 friends 13:13 front 40:20; 78:6; 102:2 fruition 105:14,17; 130:22 full 112:11 function 26:2; 21707 functions 26:15; 147:20; 216:14; 217:18; 218:6 fundamental 84:12 funded 115:14; 140:17 funding 115:16;116:3, 12;193:10,22;194:13 funds 212:5 fu rther 45:21; 79;19; 110:8; 128:4,25; 150:14; 221:1, 4; 228:2, 25; 229:2; 230:7 Ric d J. Marcotullio October 30, 1998 r 0 39:14;122:16;159:9 ~4 G.M 56:4 r' I Gallagher 99:14 ~' Gellaher 99:11,13 ~ game 192:25 gather 145:19; 207:14 gathered 147:16;148,3; 224:9 gathering 147:19; 188:1 gave 36:2;41:1;114:14; 188:25 Gay 187:10 gazing 71:17 GB 159:9 general 15:13; 26:4; 29:6; 30:15; 36:25; 51:15; 54:12,15; 58:23; 66:1; 67:7; 74:4; 80; 95:2; 98:5;155:7;187:18; 189:6; 202:9,10; 216:2; 220:22;221:16,19,24; 222:15; 224:20; 225:17, 23; 226:1, 3, 9,10 general's 28:25; 29:14; 30:5, 9; 32:6 generally 30:14; 35:22; 42:11; 43:2, 23; 46:3; 52:19,19; 53;21; 57:7; 58:14,14; 66:24; 81:11; 82:17; 87:22, 23;118:24; 119:18,21; 129:24; 146:16; 158:12,24; 169:12,13; 181:20; 187:20;195:15;196:1; 206:6; 208:12; 210:6; 216:13; 217:1,6; 218:10, 24;219:1;220:11,14; 223:4; 226:19 generals 226:5 generated 59:25;174:2; 210:4 Geneva 39;13;108:21; 116:17 gentleman 22:2; 23:13, 15; 26:7; 48:5; 107:11; 124:15; 188:6 gentlemen 165:3 George 124:15; 125:3, 10, 10; 131:15; 141:2; 154:6; 159:10; 163:15; 209:13; 210:16; 212:4 Georgetown 10:2, 9 German 99:16; 160:14 Germans 112:8,19; 113:6 Germany 106:2 gets 55:1'I * given 111:20;112:8; 160:12; T77:21;185:5; 192:21; 203:18 glves 71:11 - giving 113:2; 151:24; 154:23 Esquire Deposition Services M9i1-U-Script® (7) executive - givln;a,
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris 218:8 mid 12:8;14:4; 20:16; 206:15 middle 63:13; 125:9 might 13:25; 14:23; 15:6; 16:5, 7, 24; 20:25; 31:4; 36:14; 37:16; 64:22; 66:25; 67:9; 72:4; 73:7; 79:24; 80:22; 81:18; 88:24; 95, 25; 96:4, 23; 97:1; 113:23; 116:1; 121:5;123:5, 6;128:20, 20;129:7;133:10;136:1; 145:10; 147:10; 161:14; 177:10;180:16, 180;16,20195:8,13;196:24;197:12; 207:3 Mike 7:16 miles 77:21 million 200:9,10,18 Mlllon 23:13 mind 7:22;13:1;15:4; 16:20;49:16; 50:15; 77:14,16;88:8;96:17; 97:10;102:14,19;110:3; 117:7;136:18;143:19; 152:14;154:18;177:16; 197:13,14; 220:9; 221:6 mine 37:21; 101:15; 109:1; 166:1,4 Minnesota 33:17; 34:11 minor 157:7 minute 60:2, 21 minutes 157:4;176:8; 180:22;186:20;199:16, 18; 207:24; 208:7,16 mischaracterizatlon 152:9 mischaracterize 29:13 Mischerecterizes 15:10; 127:19;141:11;146:21; 149:16 mislead 152:10 misleading 152:14 missed 51:6 missing 91:4 mission 224:18 misspoken 57:24 mistake 58:8 mistaken 158:15; 182:10; 198:23 mlx 53:4 MNA's 101:5; 105:8; 119:23;130,25 Mobil's 55:22 moment 102:17 enoney 56:13; 83:13; 111:20;112:8,15, 25; 113:2,25; 126:17; 140:17; 165:3,16 moneys 165:5 monitoring 216:23 monograph 124:8, 22; 125:11,17; 132:20; 138:25;139:6, 7,12; I , 140:19; 142:9; 154:25; 158:20; 163:2,4, 6; N 133:13; 134:25; 136:12; 166:21;167:5,7,16; N-a-r•r 48:6 168:20; 193:10,24; Nabisco 20:11,14; 194:18, 22;195:17; 24:10; 188:22; 195:21 196:20 name 7:10,13,16; 21:25; monographs 159:19 22:3, 25; 23:13,16; 26:7; month 37:11 32:16; 34:25; 36:5; 39:8; monthly 56:14 40:3; 98:12; 99:11; months 103:3; 173:23 105:20; 108:24; 116:15; 118:16; 119:10; 125:19, more 11:1;15:13;16:9 , 23; 139:24; 142:12; 156:5, 20; 22:16, 24; 24:11; 25:4; 21;162:2,7;166:5,10,11; 28:22; 29:8; 46:6,18; 168:1;180:18;187:23,24; 48:20, 21, 22; 50:10; 188:6; 196:6,7;197:21; 51;13,14; 52:10,12; 203:12; 204:11; 205:9; 62:15, 24; 65:8,14; 72:4; 207:10, 20; 213:4, 6, 8, 9; 75:22; 76:2; 81:6; 83:1; 228:11 91:8; 102:15; 103:7; named 36:6; 48:5; 106:13,16;119:13; 107:11; 124:15; 166:8 123:23; 145:14; 147:24; names 23:4; 36:17; 151:23;153:5;164:4; 41:12; 47:17;147:11; 168:22;170:5,20;171:9; 210:17 18;183:3; 173:3;174:5 , 8; 78:3 Narr 48:6 17, 25; 3; 189:6; 196:17 188:1 1 , , , , , 82:2; 83:19; 88:3, 20; 21; 206:10,10; 211:16; 89:11, 22; 90:8; 95:15; 215:21; 223:14; 227:15 96:15 morning 215:9 Morris 7:18; 8:8; 34:2; netion 63:21 national 100:12,19, 23; 38:12,15; 39:3; 41:9; 98:3, 103:25; 105:4,7; 119:23; 11; 107:19; 153:2 1; 154:3; 147:25; 160:14; 172:11 175:1;177:12;185:13; nature 111:25; 115:23, 186:7,14;187:12;190:4, 24; 116:9, 10; 117:1; 23; 216:2 143:25; 144:21; 195:17; mortality 63:25; 90:3,14 223:14; 225:4; 227:16 nrost 41:12,14; 44:24; 70:10; 127:1 mother 50:13 motives 75:19 mouth 14:9 move 23:23; 25:6; 110:2; 114:8;181:7 moved 24:12;180:8; 181:3; 182:14; 216:15; 217:7 movement 74:1, 5,13, 22; 170:19 moving 18:4; 114:19; 181:5 movings 181:21 much 15:25; 16: 1; 19:22; 21:21; 27:18; 46:8; 69:13; 73:6; 86:20; 87:5, 6, 8, 9; 144:19,21; 145:14; 147:7; 165:2;171:9;182:14; 188:25; 196:21; 217:13 multilevel 219:22 must 44:13; 149:12 mutual 26:22 myself 14:15; 17:16; near 183:15 necessarily 23:11; 29:14,16,21;30:21;31:4; 32:4; 44:16; 97:10; 111:24;116:21;128:2,12, 14; 135:15; 136:1,6; 212:19; 230:3 necessary 35:2; 223:7 need 37:8; 58:5, 6; 83:4; 89:10;115:4;117:11; 119:25; 158:19; 189:6; 198:16; 206:24 needed 206:24 negativs 31:16; 44:21 neither 154:17; 211:9 network 145:12 neutralize 92:12, 24 New 9:22; 10:2,7; 24:10; 26:13,17; 109:25; 204:11, 21; 214:9; 219:12 news 61:14; 210:23 newspaper 209:5 next 11:8; 76:6, 25; 101:25; 109:4; 112:5; 144:16; 145:8; 161:25; 177:18; 201:22 nicotlne 17:4, 6,10,10; 80:5;130:12;141:13; 18:2,13,15,18;94:8,13; 215:25;217:12 I Myth 139:1 197:2 nftpick 87:3 Esquire Deposition Services MIn-U-Script® NMA's 100:15,17 noncommerclai 42:15; 219:1 None 8:12; 9:8 nonresponsive 110:2; 114:9, 20 nonsmokers 50:11; 52:10,12; 59:1;129:3; 130:2; 171:24 nonsmoking 80:23 nor 43:25; 81:25; 141:13; 154:17; 230:2 normal 43:16 North 19:10 Northern 7:19; 60:2 Nos 124:3 note 194:17 noted 231:12 notes 165:23 nothing 9:14; 28:21; 50:6; 69:20;182:19; 228:25; 230:7 notice 8:23; 77:8; 157:10 notk:ed 37:19 notify 160:12,18 notions 77:10 November 19:17; 24:6; 37:14; 166:21; 186:23; 193:18 number 17:19; 20:18; 26:16; 33:7,19; 37:20; 42:18; 43:14; 44:5,18; 46:24; 53:24; 54:6; 68:1, 2, 9; 72:6; 86:14; 92:17; 100:5; 101:24,25; 102:1; 118:8; 124:1,11,12; 138:16;147:9;151:5; 171:15; 179:24; 182:6; 192:18;195:17; 201:9; 207:5; 210:17; 223:15 numbers 33:8; 101:15 numeral 138:15 numerous 163:5; 194:9; 210:13 Nutritlon 223:13, 20 nutritional 219:24; 223:1 0 Object 12:16,17; 17:11; 49:11; 53:2; 64:10; 102:11; 110:6; 114:23; 115:5; 129:10; 131:5; 134:13;135:3, 5;137:4, 22;146:21;152:11; 186:25; 191:20; 197:5; 221:13; 227: 10, 11 objected 34:3 objecting 60:16,18 objection 12:18,19, 23; 15:9; 21:6,15; 34:5; 36:13; 49:12; 56:24; 59:19; 60:7, 13; 61:6; 65:23; 66:23; 69:17; 74:24; 80:2, 3,14; Richard J. marcotullio October 30, 1998 85:19; 86;17,19; 87:2; 88:14,16; 90:17, 21, 22; 91:21; 93:10,11; 96:9, 11; 97:4; 105:9; 106:10; 109ao;110:21;111:8; 114:19; 115:1,2; 125:20; 126:3;127:7,8,17,18; 129:4, 9;132:12, 25; 133:1,17,18;136:16, 22; 137:5,9,14,15,15; 139:18; 141:10; 145:22; 148:8,19,20;149:15; 150:23,24;161:12; 162:24; 174:4; 175:4,25; 176:14;186:11,12; 189:25;190:11,24; 191:19; 192:2; 208:11; 209:7; 211:2; 212:21; 215:16; 217:21; 227:4; 228:14 objectionabie 137:4 objections 60:9, 23; 74:18; 137:2; 227:20 objective 68:24; 71:2; 73:25; 76:6; 77:3, 8; 89:14, 24;163:21 objectives 43:12; 67:14; 68:13; 69:1; 74:12, 21; 76:9,16; 92:14; 100:4; 105:13;162:•l9, 20; Ln 164:10; 218:9 '-" obligated 54:21 ~ obligation 34:23 r') ' observation 34:21; w ' 132:2;149:12;157:8; , ~ 170:12;176:5; 201:21; ~, 224:6 observations 164:2, 5; 195:20 observe 173:20 observed 147:12 obstructive 16:25 obtained 33:16;138:8; 157:6 {)bviously 26:22, 25; 29:6; 34:21; 75:24; 80:6; 82:15;84:1,4;97:7; 108:14;114:5;116:2; 117:24; 196:13 occasions 17:19; 20:17; 181:7; 182:6; 194:9; 203:20 October 7:1;11:7; 37:14; 68:5; 76:19; 107:7; 186:22; 213:20 off 33:18; 37:25; 51:14; 93:24; 107:3,4;154:10; 165:13; 215:24; 216:8 offer 25:3 offered 24:2; 25:22; 46:14;172:15 offering 72:3 office 9:11;181:18, 24; 182:1, 2;183:17, 21; 184:8, 9,11; 205:17; 206:20;208:23 81:21; 82:21, 22; 83:25; 1 officed 169:25:183:14, (11) mid - ofticed
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. _ Philip, Morris 1982 61:21;188:17; 200:10 4 1983 68:5; 162:1; 169:19; $12 63:22 199:10 4 61:16,18,19; 177:18; $28 63:23 1984 11:12; 166:21; 179:10,10;185:9; 202:2 $350,000199:1 171:14; 193:18 40 22:24 $40 63:22 1987 19:14 41 12:7 $440,000 188:19 . 1989 209:22 445,000198:7 1994 21:20;26:10; 4928162:6 1 204:22; 205:21; 206:20; 4969 118:11 207 24 208 5 , ; : 23; 43:11; 1 8:15 19 1998 7:1 S , , 138:24;162:19,20 tet153:13;159:4 1.4 200:9 118:3 6 10 98:16 5 67:20,23 ; . 2 50 22:24; 219:14 1003717317 40:20 10:03 7:2 50's 12:8 10th 53:22; 61:21; 89:12; 233:3,4;37i2;40:17; 500,000 201:2 171:14 41:2, 5; 42:25; 45:20; 60209 124:3; 138:7; 11 123:21, 24;125:5 68:12; 78:11; 92:4, 8; 177:3; 199:14 11th 176 25 101:13;117:17;127:10; 60213 54 2 61:22 : 12 37:21;138:2, 3.5,16; 159:1, 8;169:17;189:2 : ; ; 118:11; 153:14; 192:11 159:23;160:4;162:1 2.1 200:9 60223 162:6 1213 7:14 2.4 200:4 60274 186:24 126 56:9 20 62:15; 117:6, 11; 6031168:3 12th 199:13 132:7;192:4, 9 60353193:18 13 37:17, 22; 41:6; 153:9, 2016049273 197:21 60366 166:23 11 2016049274 98:12 50663 171 16 13th 166:21 : 2016049276102:1 50s 12:15 14 12:4,5; 156:24; 157:1; 159:8 21 109:21;193:12,15 61388 92:9 1498 138:7 2123 199:14 521040349 78:5 15 12:4; 62:15; 161:23,25 22197:15,18 5600171:16 1507 124:3 23199:7,10 6791 61:22 16 77:20;166:13,15,17 24 202:21,24 $882192:12 16th 192:10 2612:1; 213:16 5th 186:22 177:18;171:11,14 26th 202:25 17th 123:25;138:6 26th 63:12 G 18 176:22; 177:1; 184:25; 193:4 2729 177:3 1861 186:24 2883 193:18 6 63:15; 77:24; 78:2, 2; 18th 177:2 29118:10 88:7; 118:7; 162:19,20; 167:16; 188:14; 199: 10; 1919:14;111:16;132:7; 2nd 186:23 201:23; 202:3, 3 186:17 20;188:13;193:4; , 16 231 6070 54:2 : 1963 10:10 3 60s 12:15;14:4,10, 22; 1964 30:8 15:8; 16:13,23; 18:4 1966 10:14 3 453; 53:17,19; 59:6; 6th 186:22 1973 56:11 95:15;101:14;138:13,15, 1977 43:2 15,19; 142:6; 143:18; 7 154:20; 155:18; 159:13 1978 53:22 , 22;160:1;164:20; 16 1979 11:6; 21:20; 23:2; , 165:1; 179:10; 197:20 712:7; 45:20; 89:7, 9; 40:19; 68:15; 74:11; 167:16 76:14; 78:2 - 86:21; 98:16; 3.6 201:12 t 70s 14a0 23;15:8; 1 03:3;107:7;124:1; 30 7:1; 12:1 , , 16:14 23; 18:4,5 213:19 300 145:4 , 7693 92:9 1980 63:22;74:11;76:20; 31683 118:7 11; 120:22; 138:6; 78 60:12 , 31 st 68:5;107:7;153:13 153:13; 159:4; 199:2; 79 11:7;18:6; 37:12,12, 206:15 3434 138:8 14,15;68:19,24;76:10, 1981.157:2;159:3; 3584 166:23 19, 22; 89:12;124:13, 24; 176:25;186:23,23; 38 219:24 171:2;197:24; 213:20; 187:13; 192:10 3:62 7:2 214:21 Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Script® 0 8 98:7, 10; 100:3; 167:16; 169:18 80 197:25; 198:7 80s 18:5; 20:16,16; 3523; 48:25 81 74:11;177:3;180:7; 200:8, 9; 201:19 82 49:2; 200:8; 201:18; 202:25 83 48:25; 49:2; 68:20; 76:10,11, 24; 199:13; 201:13,18; 206:15 84 27:4; 49:2;171:5; 206:16 85 27:4 8628 153:14 8719:15; 23:24 89 19:17; 24:6; 209:23 8th 157:2; 159:3 9 98:16; 106:22,24; 107:6;189:2; 201:22 90s 35:23 94 23:2; 25:7; 208:23; 214:21 9th 193:18 A a.m 7:2 Aaron 142:11;145:3 ability 9:18; 66:14; 85:8; 89:15, 23; 90:12; 92:13; 220:15 able 25:3; 55:14; 66:7; 197:19; 203:14 aboard 98:22 absent 50:10,12,17; 51:13 Absenteeism 50:6; 52:9; 70:12 absolutely 9:9,13; 225:9 academic 37:1; 224:19 accept 34:12; 94:2; 136:6; 138:2; 144:12 Acceptability 41:25; 45:5, 22; 46:1, 20; 92:17;' 97:20, 21;100:11, 25; 124:7; 202:8; 218:8; 220:4; 230:1 acceptable 172:4; 189:15 Acceptance 97:18 accepted 119:18; 203:8 access 106:5 accommodate 181:8 accomplished 79:15; 175:23 Richard j. Marcotullio October 30, 1998 according 42:23; 85:12; 86:22; 87:9; 88:2; 112:7; 116:16;117:17;119:8,12; 120:2; 123:11; 157:4; 192:14 account 86:8 accurate 21:15;112:4; 120:17; 133:14; 196:22; 201:20 accurately 43:12 achieve 89:23; 92:14; 216:21 acknowledge 84:18; 135:6 acronym 38:3;48:20 act 35:24 action 48:23;100:8,11, 24; 101:12,12; 102:8; 104:13; 105:24; 191:10; 199:23;216:2 active 43:7; 48:22; 53:12; 75:16;105:2;Y06:13; 108:21; 119:23; 188:3; 219:13 actlvist 75:14 activists 76:5 activities 15:5;43:17; 97:16;123:10;143:20; 155:7; 169:16; 172:21,23; 177:22; 210:5,10 acthrlty 49:14; 139:10 actual 91:6;129:2; 142:13 actually 14:20; 22:11; ~ 54:24; 75:15;122:17; ~ , 209:15; 217:9 f0 i Adam8:3;106:19 [,J; add 49:15,19; 69:9; ~ 91:17;116:1; 201:14 add-on 201:7 added 17:25;18:17,18; 119:15; 201:10 addicted 197:3, 3 addlction 17:15; 197:11 addictive 17:10; 18:12, 16; 197:1,13; 222:1 addition 38:12 addttional 23:18; 37:4; 87:11; 103:6 additions 200:19 additives 18:1 address 7:11, 11; 139:8; 156:21;219:1 addressed 166:19 addressee 61:23 addresseea 59:17; 61:10 addressing 60:4 adherents 50:25; 64:5 administrative 43:9; 203:15 administrator 108:4; 184:23; 207:19 admission 190:8 admissions 190:15 adopted 172:12; 223:24 (1) $12 - adopted
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris review 78:4; 127:5, 10; 128:21;138:10;' 167:10; 176:3; 185:3 reviewed 75:9; 79:11; 130:3; n8:16;185:7 reviewing 128:23; 131:15 revised 201:12 revisions 124:12 Reynolds 9:9;11:9,11, 15;18:10,11;19:2,3,19, 21, 25; 20:3, 4, 8, 9,11,11; 21:2,10,12,14; 22;4, 9; 23:2; 24:8,10; 25:16,18; 26:18, 23; 27:9,10,11,12; 32:21, 25; 34:18; 36:23; 37:14; 38:12,14; 39:12; 45:8,12,16; 46:24; 47:4, 10; 48:12; 55:19; 56:20; 57:11; 62:10; 82:7, 8; 83:2; 95:9;101:1, 6;109:25; 120:3, 6, 6, 8, 8,11;121:1, 3,11;123:8,14;124:2; 162:9;169:4, 6,15; 174:15; 180:12,15,16, 18; 183:19;195:21, 21, 25; 208:5; 214:25; 215:4,11, 15; 217:7,12,16,19; 218:10; 220:6; 228:8 Rlch 178:22, 22 RICHARD 7:4,13; 162:9; 231:9,19 . Right 13:21; 14:24; 35:4; 37:12;44:9; 46:13; 56:3, 15; 59:5; 66:16; 73:10; 74:14; 76:13, 21; 86:9; 91:3, 5; 92:2; 98:9; 99:25; 100:3,13;101:4,11; 102:18; 104:10; 105:5; 106:7;110:25;111:12,13; 118:5;119:3;120:14; 125:25; 128:19; 142:6; 154;20;162:19, 20; 163:20;166:6,15;168:19; 189:14;191:13,25;192:1; 195:24; 196:16; 198:9,12, 25;199:5i 201:11; 211:25; 225:16 rigid 185:19 ring 47:22 rip 41:3 rise 56:12,14 risk 15:24; 16:3,4,11; 70:1 ritualistic 71:16 RM 160:12,16 Roberts 24:9 role 47:25;49:14;119;16, 19;174:22;187:25;188:2, •3; 211:19; 222:25; 223:18 Roman 138:15 Ron 47:23, 24; 207:21 room 182:19, 22;184:16 rooms 184:13 rose 105:10 Rothmans 99:17,18 roughly 83:16 round 229:5 rule 60:2, 7, 22, 24, 24; 114:18 rules 150:18 ruiing 151:18 run 50:18;95:16 running 97:9 runs 70:1 S S 179:15 S-ah-u-I 39:6 Sc-h-u-I-e-r 39:10 S-u-s-t-a-n-a 47:23 safe 95:7 safer 79:24; 80:24; 81:19; 88:4,10, 21, 25; 93:7; 94:1,7,13,20 safety 79:16,18, 24; 80:8; 81:14; 94:25 safety-to-your-health 94:9 salaries 200:20; 201:3 sale 90:13; 214:22 same 21:21; 34:18; 84:10;129:25;139:2, 4, 16, 23;1633, 163:3,4; 1180:21; 187:2,16,18,22; 198:18; 205:5,10,13; 209:24; 210:1; 217:11; 219:13; 227:20; 228:16; 229:17; 230:4 satisfaction 185:6 save 83:12 savings 83:8,11 saw 75:20; 76:2; 81:6; 93:17; 134:25; 138:12; 151:7; 179:1; 185:14 SAWP 41:25; 45:18, 25; 47:3; 53:8; 68:15; 76:14; 98:14; 102:9; 103:1; 105:19; 117:15; 118:23; 124:19;125:19;126:24; 128:21;129:19;130:11; 131:14; 141:21; 153:13, 25; 154:1; 157:24; 174:2, 14;180:23;192:16, 22; 197:18; 198:3; 206:3, 5, 12; 211:9 saying 1213; 21:13; 24:21; 50:25; 57:20; 64:25; 68:22; 69:20; 78:20, 23; 79:10; 82:8, 9, 10, 13; 84:24; 85:25; 116:21; 131:25; 136:18; 14 1:8; 144:13,17,20 acan 171:21 scanned 144:4 school 9:24, 24;10:1, 2, 4, 16,17; 156:22 Sch uler 39:5, 7; 47:8, 9 scbntiflc 30:15; 31:19; 32:3; 90:13; 131:2; 134:3, 22; 135:23; 224:7 scientist 69:24; 70:15; 142:13 scientists 113:7;147:13; 158:14,17; 169:21 Scottsdale 98:16 screened 176:9; 178:1, 13,16,18 screening 174:1, 6; 175:23; 176:21; 179:14, 17; 185:1,17,20,21; 186:2 se 46:9; 122:9; 123:13; 174:17 search 9:4 second 46:19; 52:3; 63:12,18; 64:25; 71:2; 89:17, 20;101:17;110:14; 112:11; 120:3; 125:4; 138:24;163:20;164:8,10; 166:3, 4 secretarial 23:22 Secretariat 119:14; 174:23;177:21;178:1,13; 180:23; 181:1; 183:21; 185:6,10,15, 23 secretary 22:17; 98:5; 107:25; 174:24; 178:20, 24,25; 179:2,4; 183:21; 187:7;189:5; 202.9,10 secretary's 203:2 section 185:8 sectors 219:19 seeing 32:10; 80:5; 81:5; 156:5, 7; 214:4 seeking 55:13; 63:3; 64:6; 69:11; 228:21 seem 110:9;197:19 seemed 13:19; 103:14; 170:14 seeming 103:16 seems 112:6;144:17; 168:22; 188:13; 192:14 selected 163:8, 10 seUdnterest88:11 sell 85:8; 89:16, 24; 215:1,5;220:7,16,20 selling 217:1; 218:18; 219:10,13,15,17,22; 223:16 semantics 69:19;196:4 seminar 198:13, 23; 199:2 send 180:13; 207:4 sending 54:6; 179:6; 195:5 senior 11:19; 26:4,14; 99:2 sense 42:21; 103:24; 104:1,7;119:19;131:24; 132:10; 133:6, 10 senshive 114:6; 161:9; 218:17 senshivities 55:15 sent 54:15; 174:8; 193:25 sentence 44:12; 59:5; 83:4, 6; 96;7;145:7; 177;24;179:12 sentences 96:7 separate 83:15; 162:3; 228:19 separating 209:14 separation 154:11,15 September 98:16,103:3; 176:25; 177:2 sequence 23:11 seriously 128:13 serve 223:22 served 8:17 service 14:9 services 186;15; 212:8 set 16:20; 56:10; 62:21 sets 217:11 setting 117:2;203:16 settings 164:4 several 25:2; 26:11; 38:7; 68:13; 76:16;103:3; 192:23;193:2; 215:9 SG 202:10 shape 43:1; 127:25; 135:20 share 38:8; 69:23 shared 27:13;100:18; 101:8; 125:1; 180:15,19 sharing 73:23; 103:24, 25;147:20;161:8,18; 188:2 sharp-eyed 159:22 sheer71:16 shift 84:21 shifted 79:7; 85:2 $h itti n g 67:1; 8U:8; 84:5, 8 shifts 167:14 Shook 107:14; 174:22; 185:9.12 short 10:24; 24:13; 42:25 short-term 162:18, 20 shortly 10:20; 24:9 shoulders 37:8 shouldn't 14:19; 71:19; 85:6; 190:8 show 52:3; 77:9; 98:9; 129:2;134:24;162:8; 179:16; 202:23 showed 131:2 Showing 171:13; 186:19; 193:14; 199:9 shown 78:1 shows 129:23; 132:1; 133:15 sic 164:12,16 sick 52:12; 86:23 slde 20:20, 20; 47:7; 52:1; 56:4; 63:9; 66:8; 69:16; 72:7; 86:10; 121:2,2, 3; 216:16 sides 15:3, 3;101:18; 157:13 Rlchard J. Marcotulllo October 30, 1998 Siegler 8:3, 21;12;17,19; 17:11; 34:17, 20; 35:7,17; 49:12; 54:11,19; 56:24; 57:24; 58:3; 59:20; 80:3; 81:21; 82:22; 83:25; 85:19; 86:17; 87:2; 88:14; 90:17, 21; 91:22; 93:10; 97:4; 102:17; 104:16; 105:9;106:10;107:2; 109:10;110:6;111:8,10; 114:13,16,23; 115:8; 127:8,18;129:4,10; 131:5, 21;134:7,10; 135:4; 136:20,23;137:1, 7;139:19;141:10;145:22; 146:21;147:2;145:8, 20; 149:15,19;150:5,7,20; 151:1,3,21,24;152;4,8; 157:7,10,16;162:24; 174:10;175:4;176:13; 186:12, 25;189:25;192:2; 197:5; 208:11; 209:7; 212:21;227:3,11,20; 228:13 Siegler's 36:13 sign 71:23; 212:11 signature 119:9t 166:19; 187:1;203:1 signed 186:23;192:10•, 203:4 significance 130:2 signiFlcant 46:10;72:19; 171:6; 200:24; 201:9 similar 44:7; 217:24; 218:4 similarity 140:1 simple 24:19; 28:9; 29:17; 87:14; 152:5 simplistic 29:5; 49:25 simpllsticaily70:1 tA simply 28:12; 50:1; ip 114:24;115:2;117:5; r 193:6 Simpson 188:6,8 W single 50:13;70:25; ro 75:17;101:18;136:10 -t' singkr-Issue 75:14;76:5 slnister 116:22 sister 20:10, 21; 36:25; 47c4;169:14 sit161:17,21 situation 18:19;44:18; 157:20; 191:6; 201:8 six 162:23;183:9 aklll 217:11 skipped 37:20 slide 202:9, 11 slips 34:15 sioganistic 196:24 small 9:11; 23:10; 184:11 smoke 11:22, 24, 25; 27:18, 22; 28:1, 4; 29;17; 46:7; 71:18;131 i3; 142:20;169:10;172,3; 194:19;195:1, 8,14, 23; 196:7,10 Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Script® (15) review - sinok
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Bichard J. Marcotullio October 30, 1998 gtanotng 177:15,16 goal 80:18, 21, 22; 81:1; 3, 4; 83:23; 85c6, 6, 6; 220:14 goals 49:6; 80:11; 84:20 goes 43:24; 44:11; 63:20; 95:24; 132:7; 149:1; 223:14 good 13:25; 14:23; 16:5; 25:6; 29:10;137:15; 140:2; 172:3,7; 173:21; 223:3; 226:3 Gorge 159:11 Gori 96:21 gosh 208:6 governing 165:14 government 10:21, 22; 11:1, 3, 20;14:8;19:7; 93:25;189:8, 9; 216:10, 11,17,18;217:5,17; 224:15 governments 72:20 governors 118:10; 120:21 ` gr 187:7, 10 graduate 10:8 gratuitous 137:22 tlreat 9:15;14:18; 99:6, 9, 10; 179:16; 195:11; 217:9 greater 18:10; 52:6 Green 183:15 grew9:22 grounds 137:5; 150:23; 197:5 group 24:1; 46:11; 53:13, 13; 68:23; 73:21; 99:2; 105:21; 118:1; 122:4; 124:2; 159:13; 173:4,16; 196:13; 212:13; 216:9; 219:16;222:4 groups 75:14,17, 24; 76:5; 142:21; 144:1; 222:5 grow 9:20 growing 62:24; 63:4; 65:8 growth 200:24 guess 16:8; 31:15; 36:17; 69:18; 91:17; 93:5;145:3; 158:18; 168:14; 190:18; 199:17 g uys 37:5; 214:11 Gwin 151:19 H H-o-e-I 107:14 habits 103:17 hadn't 206:5 half 56:10;193:9, 22; 194:12; 200:18; 201:2; 206:15 halfway 184:3; 205:4 hand 53:19; 101:23; 107:2 handed 215:9 handing 33:5; 107:6; 123:24 handwrhing 119:11; 165:24 handwritten 165:23 happen 16:7; 211:15 happened 24:7; 50:15; 203:22; 204:2 happens 134:21 happy 24:20; 70:23 harbinger 56:2 Harbor 213:20 Hardy 107:15;174:22; 185:9,12 Hargrove 39:14 harm 222:12,16; 223:6 harmful 15:7; 74:5, 6, 7, 8,13.23;224:2;225:19 hasn't 115:6 haven911:4;79:2;130:3 hazardous 28:19;225:24 hazards 15:20 head 108;5;121:9,14; 122:20, 22, 24;123:1, 7; 154:3; 181:10,14,16,23; 210:2 head-to-head 123:14 headed 116:17; 207:16 headhunter 24:21 heading 141:2 headquarter 22:18,19; 181:24 headquartered 108:20 headquarters 180:8; 182:15; 183:18 health 14:21; 15:20; 16:6, 7; 28:16; 29:7; 31:20, 23; 46:8, 9,16; 52:23; 55:25; 56:21, 21, 22; 57:5, 8,13. 22;58:24;63:16;66:2,20; 67:11;80:13,18,23; 85:17,17; 86:2; 88:24; 94:24; 108:21; 109:2; 113: 1; 177:20; 189:3; 190:5 healthful 223:6 healthy 52:11 hear71:10;151:23;187:9 heard 12:11; 13:4; 15:25; 16:1;18:19; 82:1; 93:8,17; 129:24;166:10 heart 52:16 Heathrow 184:4; 205:4 heavlly 51:25 hedge 77:16 heighten 18:2 held 23:18; 113:23; 119:20; 141:13 help 37:8; 93:24; 131:19; 135:21; 137:8; 203:20; 207:14; 208:8; 220:19 helped 164:6 Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insllrance v. Philip Morris helpful 131:2;172:1 helping 11:5; 220:6 helps 71:17 HerbaliFe 11:17; 218:14; 219:12,21,22; 220:19; 221:10, 20; 222:1, 7,11, 18,19; 223:9; 229:6 Here's 202:23 hereby 231:9 herein 231:12,14 hereto 231:13 hesitating 27:7; 86:3 high 9:24; 10:1, 1; 56:4; 201:5 hlgh•tech 218:1 Hlghllghts 199:17,18 highly 43:18; 201:4; 218:23;219:18 hlmsel1190:4 hints60:14 hlro 22:13,14 hired 22:12,15;124:18; 190:20 historlcal 68:19 History 10:12;28:16; . 42:25; 98:6 HMO 57:11 Hobbs 121:5,8,9; 122:24; 123:6 Hoel 107:12,13; 174:21, 25; 175:7; 185:12,25; 186:5,13; 189:13; 190:13, 23; 191:7 hold 122:25; 222:14, 24 home 9:11 honorable 226:5 hopefully 54:4 Horrigan 22:3,6;121:6, 13;122:22;123;1;177:2; 178:5; 179:7; 199:11,22, 23 housekeeping 157:7 HOWARD 12:16;15:9; 33:9; 34:12; 37:18; 41:1; 49:11; 51:4; 53:2; 59:19; 61:1; 64:10; 66:23; 69:17; 80:14; 88:16; 91:21; 93:11; 96:11; 102:10,15; 110:21; 125:20; 126:3; 127:7,17; 131:7; 132:12; 133:1,18; 134:13; 137:22; 139:18, 20;140:12; 148:19;161:12;174:4; 186:11; 190: 11, 24; 191:19; 211:2; 214:14; 215:23, 25; 218:5; 221:1, 13; 227:10; 229:1, 3; 230:7 huge 182:19 h u man 31:20; 96:5; 97:2 hundreds 142:25 Hypothetlcal 87:2; 88:15; 91:23;116:1; 133:2; 134:8, 10; 135:5,7; 137:10,14,19;1381; 225:8,13; 227:4 hypothetloally 134:21; 206:19 I I.e 85:17 Icebreaker 72:3 ICOSI 32:22, 25; 38:2, 11; 39:3,19, 23; 40:1, 2, 4, 6, 9,19, 22; 41:10,16, 20, 23; 42:10; 43:1,12; 44:4, 15; 45:18, 25; 47:3; 48:15; 49:7, 7; 53:8,11,11; 66:6; 67:16; 74:4,11, 20; 76:20; 77:3; 85:7; 92:24; 93:16; 97:19;98:5,15, 21; 99:19, 21;100:18, 21; 103:22,22; 104:3; 105:1,7,19; 107:25;108:5;110:1,17; 118:10, 15,22; 119:15,18, 22; 123:9,13, 18; 124:6; 125:19,22; 126:24; 128:21;129:19;130:11; 131:14; 136:12; 141:22; 147:14, 20;153:25;154:3, 12,15,18,19;158:8; 165:7,10,13;168:13,15, 18;174:2,3.14,16,20, 24;175:3, 5, 6, 24;176:6, 12,21; 177:13; 180:22; 181:11,14,16,23,24; 182:5;183:20;185:2; 186:9;187:15,20;188:3; 191:17;198:3; 204:8; 205:11,15,17; 206:3,13; 207:25; 208:17; 209:3,15; 211:9,18;212:5,6,13; 218:6; 220:5; 223:9; 226:7; 229:18; 230:3 Idea 50:9; 69:6; 84c10; 103:19;113:21, 22; 115:12; 146:4; 172:14; 173:15;197:12;203:22; 204:1, 2 Ideas 130:21; 209:18 IdentMk:ation 64:12; 108:7; 111:5; 116:12 IdentfHed'68:24; 73:7; 101:13; 154:2,6; 155:15; 165:20;177:1,11 identifies 153:20 Identify 21:1,1; 44:24; 47:1; 67:23;101:24; 118:12; 128:3; 146:20; 147:17; 148:16; 153:15; 162:10;166:22;171:17; 197:22; 198:16; 212:18 identllying 45:4; 106:13; 146:8, 11; 147:21 Ideological 144:10,14, 19,21 Ideofogies 145:13 Ideology 143:21; 161:10 Illness 63:25; 83:15; 90:3; 91:19 Illnesses 18:21;63:17; 86:24 illuminated 63:8 Illuminating 49:20 imaglne 128:19 Immediacy 53:25 Immediate 18:23, 24; 21:24; 22:2 Immediately 10:17;: ' . 71:15; 128:1 Impact 44:21 Impacted 216:25 Imperial 99:8,10 Impinging 172:8 impikatlon 52:11; 94:9 Implicatbns 13:12 Implied 48:21; 135:13 imply 13:19 Important 102:16 Impose 49:8; 53:9; 63:3; 64:6'r69.-11;81:6 imposing 119:22 Imposhion 65:20; 91:1,6 Impress 214:9 In-house 62:4;176:17 Inappropriate 94:4; 150:16;224:25 Lq Incenttve 81:19 ~r Incidence 80:13 ~ include 41:24; 50:24 n~ Included69:10;99;5; ~ 124:21 ~~ Includes 79:12; 99:23 Including 51:2, 11; 559; 56:23; 79:16; 85:7; 87:18; 99:8; 100:7; 103:18; 118:9;151:6;164:11; 186:7;191:13;223:2 Incomplete 88:14; 91:22; 133:1; 134:7 ' Incorporated 154:7 Incorrect 122:18 Increase 86:2, 10; 87:10; 96:1, 25 Increased 78:19; 85:16, 25; 86:1; 90:3,14; 91:14 Increases 56:13; 136:14; 200:20; 201:3 4 Increasing 86c4, 5;90:4, 15;91:11;169:9 Incur 52:6; 86:24;91:11 Indeed 122:23; 131:8; 145:9; 147:18 Indlcate 109:8; 130:1; 172:6; 188:14; 211:13 Indicated 30:3; 42:11; 142:3;188:17;189:13 Indicates 108:6;112:7; 159:8;173:22;177:8; 187:11 - Indlcating 145:18; 146:12 Indirect 73:2; 90:4,15; 91:11 Individual 29:11; 50:3, 12; 64:14; 71.9; 73:4,15, gLulcing - lndlvidua] (B) Min-U-Script® Esquire Deposition Services
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Richard J. MarcotuUlo October 30, 1998 changes 40:3 channels 226:18 Chapter 138:13,15,19, 24;142:6, 8;143:5,18; 155:18; 159:13,16,20,22; 160:1;161:2;169:18 chapters 124:12; 141:4, 20; 167:8,16; 195:18 Character 142:7;155:18; 161:10 characterization 144:12; 170:19 characterize 54:4; 146:25;202:16;225:25 characterized 136:2; 170:7 characterizing 78:25 charge 19:6; 184:19 charges 76:7, 25; 200:20 Charles 47:5; 107:7 child 50:14 chime 12:25 choice 100:20;151:19; 153:3; 195:23; 196:2,3, 5, 5; 197:4 choose 178:15; 195:23 choosing 103:17; 117:12 chosen 44:17 Christmas 213:19; 214:7 chronic 16:25 clgarette 17:8;72:3; 73:23; 79:8; 81:19; 85;16, 25; 86:21; 88:10; 93:7; 221:7 cigarettes 15:7,19; 17:4; 27:14; 28:2, 5; 29:1; 53:10; 79:25; 80:24; 85:8; 86:14; 88:4, 21, 25; 89:16, 25; 90:13; 94:1, 7,19; 95:6; 126:10; 207:2; 214:23; 220:7,16 circulate 61:15;159:12 clrculation 178:2 circumstances 24:17; 117:14; 135:25; 154:14, 16; 225:7 City 9:22; 205:19; 231:16 claim 51:10; 52:14; 83:10;221:16 claiming 52:5 clarification 23:5; 153:6 clarHy 46:6; 149:23; 152:20, 22;153:4 blaude 32:13,15 clean 19:23 clear 7:25; 21:5, 8; 54:19; 61:1; 66:10;108:16; 109:23; 111:13; 137:9; 174:5; 179:17; 185:1,16; 212:2 clearly 56:1; 58:21; 60:20; 111:5, 11; 166:1 clerical 184:21 clever 213:6,8 client 175:6;186:15; 190:4,13;191:8, 23 clients 175:21; 189:15 clips 61:14 close 206:12 closely 96:14 closing 204:20 clue 126:15; 156:1 coach 150:11,14 coached 150:3; 151:15; 153:1 coaching 60:14; 150:5, 8; 152:7,8 coalttions 170:6, 21 COE 26:13 coexlst 187:21 coin 201:6, 7 Colby 121:21, 21;122:3; 202:24; 203:14,19; 213:19 coid 28:9,10,12; 213:20 colds 16:10 colleague 213:7 colleagues 168:4 collect 131:16;149:2; 156:16;224:14 Collected 122:11,11; 147:5,15;148:3, 7;156:9, 13 collecting 146:4,8; 224:12 collection 149:13 collections 147:23 collectively 120:6; 219:2 college 9:25 column 56:3 combined 26:16; 123:8 comfortable 114:4; 164:4 coming 26:13; 44:23; 59:8; 119:14 comment 58:5; 84:3; 94:15; 95:1;112:3; 129;18;140:24;152:16, 18, 22;166:20;176:5; 177:23;227:16 commentary 224:23 commenting 61:11 comments 124:25; 134:18;137c23;186:4 commercial 43:16; 91:15; 92:14 commissioned 158:2 Committee 32:22; 98:15, 22; 99:2;107:21;117:16, 22;165:10;190:19 commlttees 41:17, 21; 174:3;191:17;208:17; 223:23; 227:7 common 13:23;44:8,13, 14; 166:11; 173:2 1; 219:19 commonality 218:24 communication 104:1 communlcations 55:12; Iron Workers Local Union No. 171nsurance v. Philip Morris. 174:11; 176:15 community 57:4; 134:3, 22; 135:24; 197:1; 222:24; 229:8 companies 20:10; 33:12; 38:7,10; 42;14,19; 44:5, 12, 21; 56:12,15; 57:6; 66:3; 99:4, 5, 24;104:14; 105:4,23; 125:18; 130:24; 148:1,1, 24; 149:5; 158:4, 7;169:11;172:6, 22; 174:18; 176:4,4; 180:4; 186:7; 208:13,16,19; 217:20; 219:7; 220:20; 222:20 company 17:25;18:6, 12;19:2,14, 24; 21:9,13; 22:14; 24:12,14, 25; 25:21, 24; 26:13, 24; 27:1; 34:25; 35:3,13, 25; 36:3, 7, 21, 24, 24, 25; 38:24; 41:19; 43:25; 45:15; 46:25; 47:1, 4; 48:3; 52c21; 54:13,14,16, 20, 22, 23; 59:3; 62:8, 9; 64:3; 95:10; 99:12,16; 108:2,3;120:4; 121:10,18;122:21, 24; 154:4, 8;158:23;169:3; 7, 7,14;180:19;185:5; 209:15;211:14;215:19; 216:25; 217:3, 19; 218:16; 219:23; 221:8; 228:18, 22 company's 31:22; 32:4; 174:12 comparable 223:9 compare 217:6; 218:9 compared 201:18 comparison 200:8 competence 94:15 competent 137:12 competitive 218:23 complete 135:6; 152:9; 159:12 completed 167:18; 173:23,24 complex 29:8; 49:17; 69,22, 25; 70:5,11 complicated 28:22; 147:25 component 144:14 composition 143:21 Compound 125:20; 197:6; 209:7; 215:16 comprehensive 32:12 concept 49:6; 50:24; 51:11,20; 52:18; 172:25; 173:18 concern 17:20; 46:15; 54:11; 55:2; 62:18; 63:1, 8; 65:11; 67:7; 75:14; 76:5; 111:19, 24; 112:19; 114:2; 161:8,18;168:10, 22; 169:1, 10; 190:18,22; 191:23;197:8, 9,10 concerned 13:12; 14:16; 113:6, 9;169:7;175:18; 191:16 concerning 33:11; 155:7; 220:11; 229:8 concerns 28:15; 175:15; 186:1;189:7;195:1; 196:23;226:14,17,24 concluded 18:22; 30:16 concluding 79:11 conclusion 13:20;14:2; 16:14;30:18,24;31:10; 67:12; 82:15; 84:12; 128:11;167:21 conclusions 66:13; 132:15; 145:1; 214:1 concrete 70:11 conduct 151:14 - conducted 32:8 conducting 218:3 conference 108:15; 110:20;111:25;115:14, 17,24; 118:16; 142:19; 169:19;182:19;184:13 conferences 142:24; 143:3, 23;148:25;170:5 confidential 108:9;111:7 confusing 96:19; 97:11; 149:19;150:9;183:9 conjunction 212:9 connected 15:3;16:11; 97:10; 197:10 connection 46:25; 100:16;196:16 consciously 150:10 consensus 134:2, 22; 135:19, 24 conslder17:16;180:20 considerable 13:24 consideration 129:18 considered 25:15, 22; 29:4; 66:25; 108:9; 111:6; 168:9 consistent 217:19 consistently 151:6 constituency 93:23 construed 190:15; 195:13 consultant 62:5;124:18; 141:23; 190:20; 211:11 consultants 141:21; 147:10; 148:1; 157:23; 209:2,14; 211:1,13 consulted 25:5 consulting 165:4 Consumer 139:13; 217:25 consumption 85:16, 25; 86:21 contact 204:5; 228:4 contain 31:4 contained 17:4; 18:12; 143:17; 197:2; 207:24; 231:13 contains 200:7 contemplated 93:15 content 144:10,19; 145:21 contents 143:8~i96:20 context 52:13; 58:20; 66:6; 72:1; 74:18; 75:1, 20; 80:8; 88:22; 93:8,19, 20; 94:22, 25;101:6;102:12; 104:21;112;1;146:7;. 150:19;166:12;168:16; 17,19;173:15;175:12,13; 176:6;189:10;197:13; 210:11;211:18;213:9; 220:17 continuation 198:8; 204:19; 217:10 continue 34:16; 49:16; 60:22;106;21;150:17, 21, 22;151:17;154:18 continued 67:9 continuing 18:14; 205:10;218:13,14 contieuous 67:16; 223:21 contrary 133:16 contrast 134:16 contributed 41:22; 147:14 contributing 50 5 contribution 188:18 contributions 56:14; , rn 201:13 control9:6 controversial63:8 0 J r" controversy 31:23; [i 46:11; 66:2, 2,10 ~; convenience 180:9 . W conventions 172:7 conversations 109:24 convey 173:6;195:6 ; cool 13:14 COPENHAVER 12:22; 18:3; 19:21; 34:18; 37:4; 55:2, 6; 59:21, 24; 60:11, 18, 25; 65:23; 74:24; 80:2; 82:21; 89:18; 96:9;129:9; 132:25; 133:17; 135:3; 136:16;138:16;175:25; 191:20;214:15,19; 215:21 copied 157:12; 193:16 copies 37:4, 23; 55:8 copy 37:18; 62:11; 101:21,23; 102:11; 106:17;193:24 Corner 38:25 corporatlon 25:12; 26:19 Corporations 160:15; 180:12 corrected 159:21; 231:14 - " corrections 231:12 correctly 38:15; 54:4; 67:23; 118:12; 128:6; 146:25; 153:14; 162:10; 166:22;171:17;194:1; 197:22 cllanges - correctly (4) Min-U-Scrip!® Esquire Deposition Services
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Richard J. Marcotulllo Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. October 30, 1998 P11111p Morris 15 officer 25:12,15,17 offlces 22:22;182:6,15, 19;183:8;184:13;205:8, 11,14 officia138:22;115:13 often 50:10;57:15;71:10; 140:24; 174:17 Ohio 7:17,19; 33:21; 60:3 old 41:1; 204:20 on-wheels 181:5 once 217:7; 228:5 one 17:20; 21:2, 2; 22:11, 16; 23:13,17,19; 26:20, 21; 29:18; 30:10; 32:24; 34:1, 20; 37:5, 6, 6, 6, 7; 40:15;43:14,20,24,25, 25; 44:4; 46:13.19; 47:13; 48:3; 49:6; 51:6,12; 52:24; 53:3, 7,14,15; 54:8, 8; 63:9; 68:9, 25; 70:11; 72:17; 74:11, 21; 75:17, 21; 76:9; 79:17, 22; 80:11; 83:1,10;~4:5, 20; 86:4; 87:5; 90:2, 11; 91:8; 93:6, 14; 98:2, 4;101:11;102:4, 8,25;109:1,11;112:13; 124:6; 127:23; 131:14; 132:13,14; 136:1,4,6; 144:3:145:14;147:19; 151:24; 154:17; 155:15; 158:2, 4, 6;161:25;162:4; 164:1; 166:1,3, 4,16; 174:18;175:19;177:12; 180:8;181:7;184:13; 185:18; 187:22; 196:23; 198:18,19;201:4;203:20; 205:9; 211:10; 215:8; 220:1; 223:11; 228:3, 7; 229:1 one-sided 66:4,12; 103:7 ones 99:22; 105:22 ongoing 172:13; 192:18; 210:7 only 21:10; 27:7; 37:21; 50:2; 70:17; 77:5; 86:3; 87:4; 94:21;105:2, 24; ' 109:1; 111:15; 117:11; 129:24; 136:3,4; 137:1, 11;152:25;180:14;181:6; 197:18;199:3 o nto 64:8; 65:22; 85:2 open 204:23 operated 165:13 operating 43:3;146:15; 176:11 opinion 95:8;103:21; 104:22, 23, 25, 25;170:15; 229:13 opinions 131:19; 229:20 opportuntty 24:2, 23, 24; 25:23; 78:13,14;109:17; 144:2 oppose 49:7; 66:20; 169:11 opposed 42:7; 53:9; 62:5:64:8; 65:19, 22; 66:21, 25; 75:23; 76:3; 88:12; 103:8; 132:23; 169:14; 217:25 opposing 53:16 opposite 31:5;135:23; 144;13 option 100:20 order 103:20; 115:1; 131:19; 145:20; 149:11; 190:9 order's 61:1 ordlnance 216:24 ordinarlly 72:5 ordinary 91:15 organization 32:21; 38:6; 48:22;104:6;108:7, 11,17,19, 20, 25;109:2, 5;110:19;112:14, 25; 113:1,19,24; 114:4; 115:11,13; 116:4,11,15, 17;123:10;125:12;126:7; 139:23;147:20;149:12, 14; 157:24; 158:21; 160:15;179:24;184:23; 187:22; 191:17; 193:6; 200:13; 204:9,10, 20, 21; 210:22; 211:23; 219:13; 229:19 organization's 170:24 organizational 43:9; 187:19 organizations 20:19; 40:5; 43:8;103:13;105:3, 20;106:14;142:7;143:16, 22;144:8,10, 23;145:1, 5, 12, 20;146:6, 9, 20;147:6, 22;148:16;149:2, 6, 25; 150:10;155:19;156:9,14, 20; 159:2,17,24; 160:9; 161:1, 5, 5,10;187:19; 219:15; 222:5, 5, 10; 223:12; 226:8; 227:7 organize 203:21 organized 44:1; 56:9 oriented 75:15; 206:9; 230:2, 3 o rlgtnal 37:19;110:10, 11; 175:9 originally 64:23 originated 26:23 others 53:8, 25; 79:4; 82:5; 118:1; 125:1; 144:20; 173:19; 180:20; 209:13;212:5 Otherwise 60:14;75:15 ought 52:23; 126:1; 131:16 out9:19;10:18;37:9: 43:8; 50:18; 56:1; 62:22; 69:5; 70:15, 22; 82:12; 91:14;103:12;105:6,17, 19; 109:11,15,18,20; 113:20;119:20;131:1; 133:23;135.2,11, 21; 141:13; 144:9; 145:21; 146:17,18,19;155:22; 159:6; 173:19; 174:9; 206:21, 25; 208:4; 209:17; 211:12;224:1;225:12 outline 167:19 outside 20:5; 95:11; 101:3; 141:6,9; 176:17; 190:22; 191:10 outskirts 184:2; 205:3 outweigh 95:20 over 24:1; 27:18; 37:8; 122:23;156:2;170:6; 188:18; 209:5 overall203:24 overemphasls 153:3 overwhelming 135:19; 136,315 own 14:15; 15:4; 17:15; 57d 1; 96:20;105:20; 110:23; 152:14; 153:2 P P 39:5 p.m 7:2 193:1; 197:20; 200:13; 201:1; 203:6; 210:7; P.R 123:10 pack 27:21 packages 28:25 212:19; 220:3; 229:25 partake 30:1 participants 110:19; packs 27:19 page 37:17,17, 21, 22; 114:1; 115:17; 175:17 participated 38:11; 40:20; 41:4, 6; 42:25; 43:11; 45:3, 20; 63:13,13; 39:23; 41:20;101:9; 109:24; 148:25; 173:9 68:12; 78:10,11; 89:20, participating 38:21; 21; 92:4, 8, 9; 95:15; 101:15, 20;104:21;112:5, 11; 117:17; 118:11; 120:3; 141:15; 217:4 partkapatlon 120:9 particular 12:19; 29:11; 125:4; 127:24; 138:24; 75:17; 110:23; 111:25; 141:19; 144:3; 154:20; 124:7; 155:15; 170:25; 155:17; 159:1,8;164:8, 175:13; 176:11; 207:3,10, 10;165:1,24;169:17; 13; 213:25; 218:7; 222:25; 177:19; 179:10; 189:2; 197:19; 201:23,25; 202:2, 3 3 225:12 particularly 13:11; 1 pages 101:13, 22;145:4; 14:16; 15:15; 55:23; 69:23; 131:14; 211:10 165:22 paid 64:8;164:16, 24; 165:2;175:7; 201:4; 212:13 18 19 parties 41:17;179:13 partly 201:4 party 33:23; 34:22; 41:25; , , 42:3; 45:5 22; 46:21; 84:5 Palos 7:14 , , 6; 97:18, 20, 21, 24;124:7; pamphlets 156:8 150:14; 218:8; 220:5; panel 173:1, 7, 9,12,16 230:1 panel-tested 173:1 pass 164:3, 6;175:14 paper 83:10; 92:17; passage 51:22 124:8,11, 22;125:17; passed 174:9 131:15;132:20;134:4; passive 46:1 6 8 15 135:21, 22, 22;136:4,10; , , , past 192:21 138:25; 139:3,4, 7; 140:20;141:1;145:4; patient 152:11 154:25;159:5,7;160:11; pause 71:13 163:4, 5;167:22;189:2; pay 52:22; 62:23; 65:8, 213:11, 25 13,14;67:2,10;79:25; papers 97:17;136:7, 9; 81:8, 9.14,15,18; 88:5, 159:19;160:19, 21, 24; 12,23;165:4 163:5; 176:9; 179:13; paying 56:22; 57:5; 208:18 58:25; 65:21; 66:22; paragon 17:17 83:23; 84:3; 212:7 paragraph 55:22;63:13, payments 57:13 18; 64:25; 68:15; 76:14; 78:10,11,16; 79:13; 89:17; 92:5, 7, 8; 93:22; 95:17; 96:16; 100:5; 109:4; 110:14; 112: 10, 11; 125:9;139:9, 9;144:16; 145:7, 8;155:3;167:14, 25; 177:8,16; 179:10; 200:4; 201:12, 22, 23 paragraphs 78:14; 141:5 pareilel 218:12,13 pardon 89:19; 94:11; 132:4; 143:11 parent 24:14; 26:19, 24, 25; 38:23; 45:15; 46:25; 48:3; 62:9; 84:18; 169:3,6 Park 183:16 part 30:8; 41:21; 43:4; 44:21; 46:10; 51:20, 21; 52:18; 76:23; 77:2; 83:5; 86:25; 100:24; 115:15; 117:20, 23;131:13; 133:25; 141:23; 146:5; 165:17; 171:24; 192:23; payors 52:24; 56:21; 58:25; 64:9; 66;22; 88:13 pays 83:14 peer-revlewed 226:19 Pslham 10:2 penalty 231t10 people 19;23; 20:20; 22:8,14,25;23:3.10,18; 26:11,16; 30:1; 32:24; 38:20; 41:22; 46:7, 24; 47i2; 50:25; 51:23; 52:6; 53:14, 24; 54:6; 57:4; 58:24; 59:16; 62:19; 63:2; 64:5; 65:3, 3, 21; 66:21; 67:9; 69:22; 71:10,13,16, 19; 72:1, 8; 73:19; 78:20; 79:22; 81:16; 82:10,12; 83:12, 22; 86:14, 23; ~ 87:15; 94:7, 23;103:17; 116:4, 7;126:24;132:15; 142:25;146:16;147:9,12; 148:24;149:1, 20; 164:3, 5; 165:25; 171:15; 172:1, 8;185:13;189:8, 189.8,9; 7,10,12; 196:13; 197:3,3, 4; 201:4, 9; 209:14; 214:10; 218:18,19; 222:2, 13,14, 23; 224:1,10,19; 225:14, 22; 226:6,10,13; 227:23;229:13 people's 64:14; 66:15 per 46:9; 122:9; 123:13; 174:17 perceive 72:8 perceived 74:6, 7 percehres 73:18 percent 63:15 ~ ~ perfect 50:7 ,0 performed 102:9 4 perhaps 15:17; 16:2; ~ 58:21;69:10, 18; 167:18; 209:12; 211:16 Fp period 13:24; 16:23; '49:3; 67:15i -'68:20; 123:18;170:25 perjury 231:10 person 15:3; 22:16; 26:6; 50:4; 180:9; 181:8; 184:21, 22; 225:5,12 "' person's 36:5 personal 9:10;17:15; 63:16; 77: 10; 196:2,5; 219:24 personally 75:13; 82:14; 168:12 perspecth!e 46:6; 186:16 pertalning 206:2 pertains 9:14; 133:14 Peter 26:7; 39:7; 47:8; 169:23,24 PetelYon 47:21 '" " Philip 7:18; 8:8; 34:2; 38:12,15; 39:2; 41:9;98:3, 11;107:19;153:21;154:2; 175:1;177:12;185:13; 186:7,14; 187:12; 190:4, 23;216:1 Esquire Deposition Services oft3cer - Phlllp (12) Min•U-Scdpt®
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Rlchard J. Marcotulllo October 30,1998 Un1on 7:18; 56:13 union's 57:21 unions 55:25; 56:10,11, 12 unite 44:13 United 20:5; 59:3; 98:24; 100:22; 101:2, 5; 175:12; 214:23; 215:2, 6; 221:19, 24; 225:17; 226:4; 229:21 Unlversity 10:3,4; 163:15 u n less 90:25; 91: 17 unlikely 168:22 unquote 49:9; 54:1; 69:2; 71:21; 73:8; 111:6 unreasonable 29:25 unrestricted 76:7;77:1 unsupported 132:23 up 9:21,22; 15:2,4; 19:14; 30:2; 41:3; 44:20; 50:14, 18; 56: 10; 67: 10; 71:14; 74:19;114:3; 116:2; 118:1; 130:10,12, 15,17; 141:2,16; 147:11; 152:14; 155:25; 172:14, 16; 179:9; 196:6,7; 201:18; 203:16; 204:2 1; 207:3,16;211:21;216:15 upcoming 177:10 update 68:23 upon 61:11; 172:8 use 17:15; 19:2; 21:12, 14; 33:11, 20; 34:9; 38:3; 55:7; 71:13; 87:25; 100:23; 111:10; 178:17; 222:2,13; 223:7 used 43:20; 71:23; 92:16; 100:12; 101:5; 122:25; 146:24; 147:23; 164:3; 194:22; 196:15; 222:12 using 15:21; 19:24; 33:23; 55:8 utllize 100:20 utilized 100,15 162:8;192:11 values/social 157:3; 158:13 Van 26:7 varied 191:6 variety 141:15,15 various 32:11;40:2, 10; 42:7; 49:20; 94:23; 98:18; 124:24, 25;139:8;149:13; 179:12;192:19;199:1; 212:17; 219:19,19 Verband 160:12,13,14, 19, 22; 161:11, 19 Verdes 7:15 verifies 89:13 verlly 162:23 versus 7:18; 52:24; 53:5; 200:9 Via 7:14 vlabllity 44:25 vkoe-presklent 11:19; 26:4; 45:14; 48:2;121:18 view 14:25; 15:22; 31:5; 49:24, 25; 63:10; 66:8,15; 82:25;167:14;195:10; 1962;222:14,25;224:5; 227:25; 230:6 viewed 195:8 vlewing 195:4 viewpoint 225:1 vlewpoints 226:9 views 38:8; 42:21;150:1; 227:8 Vimond 122:16,17,17, 19; 123:4 violating 60:24; 150:18 visfted 183:24 voice 12:20 voids 164:3 volume 156:9 w V V-I-m-o-n-d 122:16 V-y-1167:24 vacuum 173:19 vague 7:21; 56:24; 60:8, 14,17,18;61:5;80:14; 81:21; 85:19; 86:17; 90:22; 95:2;129:10; :186:12;197:6; 209:7; 217:21; 227:12 vaguely 32:18;126:8; 168:1 Vagueness 80:2 valid 66:7;117:6 validity 69:7 value 72:8; 96:5; 97:2; 116:7;124:9;154:21; 198:9 values 68:4;138;7; W-e-i-s-s 166:9 wage 43:25; 56:8,13 Wagner 157:19; 158:14, 16;163:17;164c15,18; 209:3,12; 210:5,14; 212:4 Wagner's 164:12 walt 60:1, 21 waiting 71:11 waive 34:14 Wall 54:5; 58:17; 59:12, 17; 61:10 want's 151:10 Warner63:21 Warner's 85:13 warning 28:24; 30:3 warnings 28:25; 29:14, 19, 20, 23 Washington 219:11 water 127:6; 130:7 waters 127:3,15, 25; Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris. 128:5,9,17,20; 129:7 way 17:20; 21:12; 28:14; 68:14, 21; 72:3, 20; 75:6; 81:6, 7; 82:1; 84:2; 90:24; 94:18, 21; 95:5, 21; 104:21;112:3;113:3; 120:13;127:24;134:15; 135:13,20;142:2;143:17; 172:3;173:5, 21;175:6; 178:10;195:7, 9;196:25; 211:23;215:24;219:20; 229:17 Wayne 36:18 ways 139:8 Week 28:11; 61:20, 21; 62:12,19; 63:14; 85:14 weeks 183:9 weight 219:23 weight-loss 220:21; 229:9 We{ss 166:8 welcome 129:8;140:12; 160:6; 221:3 well-known 108:20; 116:16 well-respected 108:20; 116:16 weren't 23:10; 40:21; 58:19; 83:19,19;104:10 Westchester 9:23 what's 33:5; 78:1; 82:15, 23; 94:6; 98:9; 107:6; 117:23; 123:24; 130:20; 173:15; 186:19; 193:14; 199:9; 200:14; 204:12; 223:8 whatsoever 8:12; 17:18 when's 204:3, 4 whenever 181:22, 23 whereas 69:6 wherever 180:25; 182:5 white 30:24, 25; 49:25; 69:6, 20; 70:6;134:17; 189:2 who's 21:6; 23:14; 58:7; 131:14;146:17;149:11 whole 19:12; 44:12; 69:23; 82:18; 90:5; 115:14; 173:15; 192:23; 195:19;206:3;217:14 whose 69:22; 81:1 wlfe 25:5 Wlldavsky 142:11; wish 145:15 wished 116:12 withdraw 115:7; 161:21; 192:3 WITHEY 7:9,16; 8:16, 24; 9:1; 12:18,24; 13:3; 15:11; 17:12;18:8;20:1;21:8; 33:4,14; 35:4, 8,19; 37:5, 23; 38:1; 41:3; 51:8; 53:6, 18; 54:24; 55:4,16; 57:2; 58:1, 5; 59:23; 60:1, 6,13, 21; 61:5,17; 64:16; 66:18; 67:4, 21; 70:2; 75:3; 77:25; 80:9,15; 81:23; 82:23; 84:7; 85:22; 86:18; 87:7; 88:17; 89:8,19; 90:18, 23; 91:2, 24; 93:12; 96:12; ^ 97:5,12,14; 98:8;102:13, 18, 21;104:17;105:15; 106:15,19,23;107:5; 109:13; 110:2,12; 111:4, 9,12; 114:8,15,18; 115:4, 9; 118:4; 123:22; 125:24; 126:6;127:9, 22;129:5, 12;131:11, 22; 132:17; 133:4, 21;134:9,11,19; 135:9; 136:17,22,24; 137:2,13, 24;138:4,17, 20; 139:22; 140:16; 141:18; 146:1,23;147:4; 148:13, 21;149:17, 21; 150:3,6,8,21;151:2,9, 23;152!2,7,13,17,19, 21;153:10;156:25;157:9, 14,17; 161:16,24;163:1; 166:14; 171:8,12; 174:7, 13; 175:8; 176:7,18,23; 186:18; 187:4; 190:1,16, 25; 191:24; 192:3,5; 193:13;197:7,16;199:8; 202:22; 208:14; 209:10; 211:3; 212:22; 213:17; 214:16;215:16;217:21; 221:5,14; 226:12; 227:5, 13; 228:2, 24 within 9:6; 38:11; 41:10; 49:7; 51:2,11; 58:23; 74:4; 82:10; 84:18; 94:15; 124:2; 143:17; 147:6, 10; 149:11,14;'156:9;165:10; 172:14; 174:3; 176:5; 192:16, 22; 218:15; 219:19 without 82:18; 220:24 WITNESS 8:25; 13:1; 18:6; 33:16; 34:9; 35:1,18; 37:6, 21; 49:13; 53:3; 15; 152:8,10,13,16, 18, 20;161:13;174:5:10; 175:5;176:2,14;186:13; 187:2; 190:12; 191:21; 208:12; 209:8; 215:17; 217:22; 221:3; 227:21; 228:14 witnesses 12:13 , Witt 54:12; 121:6 wonder 220:17 wondered 165:23 Word14:9;19:2;110:13, 25; 146:24; 169:21; 178:15, 18; 196:15; 209:2; 227:11 words 13:6; 44:17; 50:24; 51:6; 83:6,11; 86:20; 91:5; 95:25;104:11;105:6; 111: 10; 112:15; 134:2; 153:4; 167:22; 179:10; 196:18;200:14;205:5; 220:14 work 10:25; 11:11; 19:1, 9,12; 20:17; 21:23; 22:16; 24:18; 39:11; 41:23; 42:7; 43:8; 45:17; 48:10; 49:7; 50:10; 51:13; 52:10; 66:6; 82:11; 84:19; 96:14,15; 102:5, 25; 117:21,24; 124:21;125:4;126:25; 128:25;158:1, 7, 9;159:7; 161:4, 5;164:11,12,16, 25;165:4;168:13,18; 170:18;188:7; 206:1, 24; 210:7;211:19;212:6,10, 20;216:18,18,224 217:16; 219:17 worked 17:25; 19:3, 10, 13, 24; 20:2, 20; 21:1, 3, 9, 10, 13; 22:8, 25; 23:1; 26:12; 32:20; 35:13, 25; 36:7, 24; 39:16; 46:24; 52:21, 21; 58:24; 62:2; 68:23; 80:16; 95:8; 96:5; 120:6;122:4;141:12; 142:15;147:9i 158:11; 163:14,18;170:1;183:6; 205:21; 209:15; 210:25; 218:15 worker 63:24 Workers 7:18 working 10:23; 19:18; 21:6; 24:20; 36:3; 37:13; 41:16,17, 25; 429; 45:3, ! 5, 22, 25; 46:21; 47:2; 56:20; 92:17; 93:14; 97:18,20,21,24; 124:7; 129:21; 132:16; 175:18; 179:13;195:25;196:9,14; 206:19; 208:4, 18; 209:20, 24;210:25;211:11;212:9; 214:6; 215:15; 217:13; 218;8;219:10;220:6: 229:18;230d workings 220:11 world 22:24; 23:6; 55:9; 109:2; 112:25; 219:15,16 worki-wide 44:1 write 141:4;226:22 155:22; 156:10; 160:11, 54:17; 56:25; 58:6; 60:5; 19, 21, 24 64:11; 65:24; 66:24; Wildavsky's 145:4; 69:18; 74:25; 80:4; 81:22; 159:5 84:1; 85:20; 87:3; 90:24; Willlamson 38:14,19, 102:15,19;105:10; 20 22 106:12;109:11;110:3,8, , win 43:25 22; 114:11,14; 125:21; 126:4; 127:20; 131:8; wind 30:2 132:13; 133:3,19; 134:15; Winston 216:1 135:8; 136:25; 137:1, 11, Winston-Salem 19:10, 11,12;138:18;140:13; 16; 21:24; 22:16, 20; 23:8; 141c12;145:24;148:10; 24:12; 25:8 150:4, 5, 8,11,13;151:6, Un7on - Wrlte (] 8) Min-U-Script® Esquire Deposition Services
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Rlchard J. Marcotullio October 30, 1998 advancing 64:6;79:23 advertlsing 19:8; 43:17; 217:14 advlce 36:2; 55:13; 177:20; 228:21 advisable 192:24 advise 58:6;189:14 advised 190:13 adviser 174:23:185:9 advisers 185:15 advocates 74:13; 86:7; 119:3 affairs 11:20; 19:6, 19; 22:9; 23:1; 45:15; 48:4,12; 62:7; 94:18; 95:5; 98:4; 121:19; 205:22; 209:21; 210:2; 216:9, 9,10,11,11, 17; 217:18,18 affect 91:12;103:20; 104:22 affecting 89:23; 90:11 afflllated 126:14 affiliates 22:22; 98:25 effirmative 81:7 afternoon 97:16 Again 15:7;16:22;17:15; 28:6,13, 23; 30:22; 40:18; 44:17; 49:L4; 52:9, 20; 53:14, 20; 64:22; 66:5; 67:25; 68:14; 69:4, 5, 21; 70:10; 75;12, 20; 76:18; 79:13; 82:4, 6, 25; 87:10; 88:7; 89:11, 22; 90:8; 94:14; 96:16; 98:16; 101:3; 102:14; 105:11; 117:1; 118:9; 130:5; 132:6;133:5;134:17; 138:25;154:24;162:18; 1633;167:4;169:20; 173:17;1763;179:9, 23; 186:14; 198:22; 199:4; 204:11; 205:3; 208:18; 210:5,12; 212:2; 215:18, 25; 218:12; 222:3; 225:13; 227:21 against 44:1 agenda 154:10 ago 8:19; 9:12; 77:20; 193:4; 208:8 agree 43:21, 23; 45:24; 46:3; 76:9; 83:17; 84:14, 17, 23; 85:1;135:16,17; 136:1; 139:15; 144:7; 150:25; 151:16; 170:11; 229:22 agreeable 12:21 agreement 135:14 ahead 12:20; 52:3; 82:24; 83:5; 106:20; 109:15; 138: 10; 152:15, 23 ailments 29:18 air15:16,20 Airport 184:4; 205:4 airways 209:6 a17:19 ~ Alan 215:25 Albert 23:16 alert 61:6 alienate 145:10 alike 44:13 all4nciuskre 31:3 allegation 49:23 allegations 62:20, 21; 63:3; 69:2; 229:20 alleged 95:21; 214:1 allocated 199:1 allow 53:14; 66:4; 93:6, 25; 112:14; 150:12; 151:11; 172:5 allowed 60:10;169:10 allows 220:23 almost 11:2; 24:20; 132:7; 167:9; 183:13; 195:11 along 14:25; 56:15; 137:8 already 47:12; 73:24; 89:10;122:23; 212:3 altered 91:18 Although 79:18; 134:21; 167:2 Always 20:4; 23:17; 29;4; 81:6; 210:1; 218:14 amend 101:21 American 125:13;126:1; 139:10,16, 21;140:4, 5, 9, 21; 142:1 among 159:12 anaiogize 15:21 analyses 31:7 Analysis 139:12; 142:2; 147:8 analyze 74:1;146:15 analyzing 133:25; 217:2 Angelas 7:1 anguish 14:18 announcements 14:9 answered 89:10; 110:7; 114:24;115:1,5;133:6 answering 152:23 antagonlstic 103:14 antl's 102:5, 23;103:1, 5; 104:14; 106:9 anti-free 170:8 anticipated 59:9 antismokers 170:5 antismoking 62:20; 63:2;74:1,4,13,22; 75:24; 92:13, 24;103:13; 106:13; 119:2; 142:7,21; 143:16,22;144:1,8,18, 23, 25;145:5,12,13; 146:6, 9;147:6, 8;148:16; 149:6; 155:18; 156:8,13, 20;159:2,17,23,24; 160:8, 25;161:4;170:19, 24; 229:21 Antonietta 203:11 anybody 18:19; 95:4, 5; 121:1;128:24;151:10; 156:10; 208:4 iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris anyone 12:22;95:7,8; 148:14;211:19 anyplace 208:15 anywhere 10:6; 95:11 apparently 107:20; 113:11; 117:19; 126:4; 153:12;167:4 appear 66:11;112:22; 155:2;177:6;179:14,17; 187:1, 5:198:5; 201:20; 210:21 appearance 212:19 appeared 188:2 appearing 69:5; 191:16 appears 79:3; 89:14; 130:20; 194:14; 198:1 applies 34:18 apply 84:9 appreciate 55:2,10,15; 58:7 approach 103:7;145:14, 18 approaches 44:14 appropriate 24:11;93:2; 128:14;134:18;151:9; 172:16; 177:20; 179:14; 190:14; 225:11; 226:7, 25; 227:6,15,19; 229:12,19; 230:5, 6 appropriateness 229:6 approval26:25;40:17 approve 135:21; 199:24 approved 165:9,13 approving i65:9 approximately 10:18; 27:20 April 40:19;153:13; 159:4;171:14;192:10; 199:10,13 area 11:3; 31:6; 35:23; 49:17; 50:19; 51:16; 69:22, 24; 70:5; 94:15; 98:4;128:24;130:5, 5; 131:9; 141:7,9,14; 158:12;182:20;184:14, 17; 191:22; 210:12 areas 71:18;101:12; 102:4, 8, 25;126:20; 128:3, 8,13;130:15; 132:14;189:15; 218:23 arena 209:17 argue 95:24;96:22,23 arguing 96:5; 97:1; 135:7 argument 50:9; 77:9; 78:18, 25; 79:6, 23; 81:3; 82:3; 86:6; 87:1,10,13, 14; 91:6; 96:20; 129:25 Argumentative 109:10; 110:7; 111:8; 131:6; 141:10;192:2 argu Inents 79:22; 90:2, 14 arise 177:10; 202:6 Army 10:18 arose 172:20 around 11:6; 22:23; 23;6; 48:24; 49:2; 53:9; 71:8; 110:13;122:25;171:25; 172:2, 9;182:14; 219:15 arranged 157:20 article 54:5, 6; 56:3; 57:20,25;58:3,16.17; 59:13,18;61:10,20; 62:17; 63:12,14; 64:18; 66:11; 67:5; 83:9; 225:10 artlcles 224:14, 24; 226:22 articulate 90:24; 229:15 articulated 82:1; 120:20 articulates 82:2 articulation 69:11; 82;7; 111:2 anllkry 10:19 Ashford 23:14 aslde 75:16 aspect 46:8; 71:17; 73:22; 76:23; 86:5 aspects 43:9;45:21; 199:1; 203:15 assert 34:16;54:23 asserted 33:23; 34:7 assessment 89:13; 170:11 assignment 19:5 aasignments 42:7 assistance 203:15,18 assistant 22:17 associates 218:25 assoclation 100:13,19, 23; 105:4; 106:2; 117:6; 119:24; 219:5,10,17,17; 220:12;223:8;229:7 Assoclations 44:13; 103:25;104:15;105:25; 147:25; 172:12; 183:7; 218:15, 25; 223:16 assume 7:25; 30:1; 60:23;114:5;118:22; 124:14; 126:23; 134:20; 144:2;149:10;150:16; 164:157166:25;179:8; 188:18;19$:21;226:13, 22 assumed 48:3 assuming 89:2 assumption 8:1; 112:23; 135:14; 191:18 assumptions 69:8; 84:2; 135:12 attach 145:5 attached 8:22; 61:19; 213:9; 231:13 attaches 54:4; 62:11 attacks 43:15 attempt 145:19,"150:14 attempting 150:11; 152:10 attend 68:6; 120:24 attendance 174:17 attended 32:25; 68:9; 76:19;116:9;153:18; 157:5 Attendees 170:7 attending 121:3 attention 14:6;34:24; 54:22; 55:21; 58:8; 59:13, 16; 60:16; 61:9; 63:11; 68:11; 78:9; 93:21; 139:9; 167:13, 24;177:7,18 attorney 23:14; 35:13; 39:12; 216:8 attorney's 34:25; 36:17 attorney-client 33:24; 176:15 , attorneys 8:7,11; 36:20, 22;174:18 attractive 24:25, attributable 65:15; 200:19 audibly 20:23 auditor's 200:7 August 12:7 Australia 188:9 author 224:14 authored 151:7;153:12; 178:23;193:15; 224:16 authors 167:8 available 180:20;188:11; 207:7 Cn average 129:3 avld 213:7 avoid 127:16; 130:7; 145:10 avoided 128:20 avoiding 127:2, 25; 128:5, 9,16 Avon 10:20, 22, 23, 25; 11:6; 24:20; 216:5,14,19, 21; 217:2,19; 218:11,16; 219:4, 9,11; 220:18; 221:9,17,25; 222:6,7, 11 aware 13:12; 18:18,25; 26:1; 30:18; 31:12,13; 33:25; 53:21; 131:25; 140:4,18; 172:7; 209:1, 8; 215:7; 222:4, 9,10; 225:21 awareness 15:14 away 52:9; 96:4; 97:1; 144:7 awful97:7;143:3 attaching 59:12 attachment 193:25 B _. attack 43:21; 44:2;116:5; 224:17; 225:1, 5, 6, 7; 8 159:9 226:9, 25; 227:7,11,19, B.A.T 38:23; 99:25; 24; 229:14 119:12, 22 attacking 224:18, 21 back 8:22; 12:14; 13:8, advancing - back (2) Min-U-Scaript® Esquire Deposition Services
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Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. J. Marco o Philip Morris October 30, 1998 correspondence 208:1 correspondenis 118:8 Corti 203:11 cosmetic 218:20 cosmetics 218:20; 220:21 cost 49:21, 23; 50:5; 63:21; 64:5,17,19; 65:20; 67:2; 72:12; 77:9; 78:4; 80:23; 81:3,13; 84:4; 86:5, 7, 7,15; 87:21; 91:1,14; 124:8, 22;130:7,11; 131:17; 135:22,22; 136:12;139:1;193:24; 214:1 Cost-Benefh 139:12; 142:2 costly 76:8; 77:1 costs 46:2,19; 49:6, 9, 14,15,16; 50:24; 51:1, 3, 11,19, 20; 52:7,18, 22; 53:5; 54:1, 7; 55:25; 56:12, 22; 57:5,13, 22; 58:25; 59:8; 61:20; 63:5; 64:7,13; 65:14, 20; 66:20; 67:10; 68:16; 69:2, 8, 9,12,15, 20; 70:10; 72:12; 76:15; 78:19; 79:1,13, 23; 80:1, 13,19; 81:9,16; 82:20; 83:7, 21, 24; 84:13,17, 22; 85:12,18; 86:2, 24; 87:10, 17,18, 22; 88:6,12, 24; 89:1,12; 90:4,15; 91:6, 11,20;95:19;96:1,24; 131:15;133:12;134c5; 138:6;140:21;141:9,13; 142:2; 155:7,15; 157:3; 158:25; 166:21; 167:5; 192:10;193:10;198:8; 201:5,8;206:4;229:25 costs/cost 209:4 costs/social 68:4; 154:21; 162:8 couch 224:3 couched 63:6 couching 84:2 couldn't 32:19; 143:7; 154:3; 166:1 Councll 56:8; 223:13,19, 20,24; 224:18,25; 225:7; 226:25; 227:6 eounsel 26:5; 33:9,14; 34:24; 35:2; 54:12,15; 55:8,13; 57:24; 58:6; 59:20; 60:21; 89:19; 102:10,13; 107:18; 135:4; 136:20; 137:7; 140:11; 150:4;151:24;153:1; 15922;174:12,17, 20, 25; 175:14; 176:10,16,17,17; 185:13; 186:14; 220:13; 222:9; 228:18,20,21,22; 229:6 counsel's 21:6; 220:2 counted 50:5 countermeasure 101:13;117:21;223:25 countermeasures 92:12,16, 22; 93:1, 4, 5, 6, 15;98:14;100:4,12,25; 102:9; 117:15; 123:25; 224:4 counterparts 23:7 countries 22:21, 24; 44:6; 77:11; 219:25 country 43:20, 25; 155:16;170:7;191:6, 7; 207:3 County 9:23 couple 9:12; 26:12; 43:3, 6;121:20;125:8;138:21; 144:6;214:15;216:7 course 87:19; 91:17; 96:18; 120:16; 176:6 Court 7:19;114:18; 115:5; 150:18; 157:15 courteous 172:3 courtesy 46:2; 152:3; 171:15,19; 172:10,12,19, 23; 173:5,5;180:17 cousins 18:24 cover 92:9;118:11 coverage 56:14 Covington 98:1, 2,13; 153:20, 24;177:3,11; 178:6;181:10;187:11; 188:4, 5,11 crazies 225:22 craZy 226:1 create 225:8 created 50:16; 184:24, 25 credentialod 227:23 credentials 225:9; 227:22 critical 150:1; 225:10; 226:23 criticism 93:3; 224:5 crhicisms 42:21, 22; 146:13 crllicized 222:19, 21, 22 crhicizing 146:16,17,19 critics 42:18; 44:19, 20 critique 127:5,11; 128:21;224:23 Crohn 54:17 cross 166.7 crossed 197:13 crucial 170:5 culture 142:21 curious 83:3; 178:19 current 61:13; 77:10,16; 139:10;157:20 currently 11:16; 219:14 currents 97:9 custody 9:6 custom 30:1 customers 62:23; 63:4; 65:6,13 customs 15:1 cynically 195:4 0 D 45:7; 122:4 D-0-m-b-e-c-h 47:10 D-e-s-c-a-n-s-o 7:14 D-o-n-n-e-r 23:20 D-u-r-d-e-n 45:8 D.C 153:13,18 damaging 93:24 Dan 36:18 Dardon 47:17 darn 30:12 data 128:4, 10; 129:2,6, 16,16,16, 20, 23;130:1, 3, 6,10,13,16,17;131:2, 16,18;132:1,11, 22, 24; 133:7,11,15,16, 22, 24; 134:18,24,24; 136:8; 202:19 database 202:14,17; 203:7,23,24;204:4 date 12:6; 42:25;141:20; 157:2;164:11,13; 204:18; 207:11 dated 53:20;118:6; 138:6; 159:3,3;162:1; 166:21; 192:10; 193:17; 202:24; 215:10 Dave 48:7 David 78:3 day 27:21; 34:4; 50:14, 18; 82:12; 213:19; 214:6;' 231:15 days 9:12; 52:12; 109:21; 117:6,11 deal 53:15; 69:25; 89:10; 179:16; 189:6,7; 195:11; 217:9 dealing 69:19; 195:18; 217:25 dealings 93:16 deals 159:16; 167:4 dealt 160:25;163:22, 25 death 95:20; 127:6, 11, 12; 128:22; 129:20,22; 131:3,17; 133:11; 134:6, 23;135:1, 20;136:9,11, 15; 222:8 deaths 134:4; 222:7 debate 18:15; 49:15,19, 19; 52:25; 53:4,14, 21; 66:9; 93:3 deceased 187:8 December 123:25 declde 114:20 decided 24:10; 25:6; 116:17 decision 17:7; 24:14; 26:18, 22;160:13,19; 186:21 decisiona 66:16 declaration 33:20; 34:2 declare 231:10 Defendant 19:25; 216:1 defendants 8:7,11 defense 12:12 defined 15:24; 16:11; 46:1 defInes 45:21 definhely 182:11 definitive 66:12 degree 16:2 delaying 95:20 demand 85:17 Dembach 47:9 demonstrate 69:1 demonstrates 63:7 demonstrating 69:14 Den 167:24 .. denial 134:16 Dennis 47:11; 53:23; 61:19; 78:3; 166:19; 197:20 denominated 180:2 department 10:22; 22:9, 12; 23:10; 48:12; 62:3, 6; 228:8 depend 225:4 depends 31:2; 74:18; 94:6; 115:23; 117:1; 227:21 deposed 35:10 deposhion 8:18; 33:6, 15; 34:8;136:21;150:19, 22;151:5,14;157:12; 186:20;193:15;199:10; 228:6 derive 71:19 Descanso 7:14 describe 19:2;24:17; 26:9;1123;126:23 described 21:11; 47:20; 56:9 describes 59:2; 100:3; 164:9,10 describing 32:12; 203:7 description 141:20; 201:23 deserves 196:18 desire 63:9 determine 9:5; 115:6; 132:14 determined 58:19 detrimentai 76:2 develop 16:9; 29:18; 42:21;81:19;88:25;93:7; 94:1,7; 100:11, 24; 104:20;106:7 developed 43:1; 100:18, 20;132:20;159:13;160:8; 213:6 deveioping 173:18 development 59:7; 68:19; 80:24; 93:20; 98:14; 100:4; 122:5,5; 168:23;179:25 Devon 154:6 diagnosed 18:21 die 129:3;130:1 dietary 222:15,15; 223:1, 14,19; 224:2; 225:2, 11; 226:14,24 diets 222:25 difference 221:6,10,12, 15 different 21:19, 22; 26:15; 27:16; 44:6; 47:16; 71:18, 25; 72:1; 73:12,12; 97:8; 105:14; 139:24; 146:14; 165:25; 175:19; 179:25;187:23; 212:1; 223:11; 230:5 dRficuR 30,23, 24; 31:15; 49:17; 51:22; 75:2; 77:13; 115:25; 135:11; 137:18, 21; 138:1 difficulty 128:24; 182:24 dimension 211:19 direct 55:21; 63:11; 68:11; 73:2; 90:4,15; 91:11; 93:21;138:22; 145:14,18;167:13;177:7, 18;217:1;218:18;219:10, 13,14,16,22;223:15 direct-ma11213:2 directed 78:9 direction 170:23 directly 22:6; 25:2; 63:23; 125:18 director 108:4;180:10; 181:8; 194:7; 207:19; 216:10,11,16 directors 68:5, 7; 99:2; 180:24;186:22;199:12, 20; 200:13 disagree 224:5 cn disbelieved 30:22 fl disclosure 33:18 -j discourage 168:5 discouraging 168:11 ~ discovery 33:7,16; ~' 98:11 a' discredh 116:4; 223:25 discredlling 102:5,23; 103:1, 5; 104:14 discuss 38:9; 53:14; 126:20; 157:20; 192:20 discussed 54:10; 71:8; 72:7; 75:4; 77:2; 94:21; 98:18; 117:24; 120:12; 133:14;143:16, 1016,22; 1175:12; 178:6; 198:15; 200:1; 209:11; 211:23; 213:5 discusses 89:22 discussing 139:2; 143:24; 210:14 discussloo 36:7; 37:25; 49:21; 58:20; 69:9, 22; 70:14; 71:15; 79:4; 83:1; 92:11;101:10;107c4; , 117:25; 125:9; 143:25; 148:12; 157:18; 158:22; 171:7; 172:14; 186:21; Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Scripft (5) correspondence - discussic :
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Rlchard). Marcotulllo October 30, 1998 200:2; 202:6; 211:6; 212:25 discussions 8:13; 35:12, 16, 21; 36:8,14; 37:1; 70:9; 76:18; 80:7; 9$:4; 103:12; 105:12; 130:21; 144:8; 192:19,22; 211:4 disease 12:14;13:6,17; 16:25; 52:16; 81:20; 85:15; 95:20; 190:2 1; 221:22 diseases 14:12; 16:18; 18:21; 29:21; 30:17; 52:7, 15,17; 83:21, 22; 86:15; 190:9; 213:13, 25; 223:2, 4 disingenuous 196:25 dismiss 116:7 disseminate 179:16 disseminatlon 93:4; .. 106:8; 176:10 distribute 215:1, 5 distributed 141:21; 175:15 distributes 219:23 distributlon 217:1; 223:16 Dlstrlct 7:19; 60:3 dlvlded 23:14 doctors 18:22; 81:16,17; 224:1; 225:17,23 document 30:12; 32:6; 33:6, 22; 34:1, 4, 25; 37:3, 10; 40:19; 42:24; 45:20; 48:25; 53:19, 22; 54:3; 58:1, 9; 59:6; 60:12; 61:8; 67:6,15, 25; 68:12; 70:25; 71:3; 74:10, 20; 75:1, 8; 76a 1; 77:7, 19; 78:6; 79:3t 82:16,18; 89:9, 21; 90:11; 92:8; 98:10;102:23; 107:22;119:8,12;120:4, 20;123:11;124:1,3; 125:8;127:19,24;138:8, 10,11,12,13;142:3; 143:18,23; 144:11; 145,23;153:12,15;157:2, 5; 159:2,3, 5, 23;160:2; 162:1, 4, 5,10, 24;166;18, 22;168:16;169:2;171:17; 176:25;177:4;178:8,11, 18,23; 184:25; 188:13; 192:9,15,17; 193:3,15, 19;197:22;198:10,11,15, 15;199:4,4,11;200:3; 204:23;206:2,22,22,24; 267:6,10,12,13,16; 208:19,22;212:11,25; 213:23; 214:4; 224:15,16 Doc.umentatlon 204:13; 206:11 documents 9:5,7,10; 20:19; 23:4; 31:18; 32:2, 10; 33:10,12,15,16,19; 34:4, 6, 9; 35:5; 36:6; 52:2; 62:15; 70:21; 92:18; 122:11; 145:20; 151:7; 174:1; 175:14,23; 176:3; 177:25;178:12;179:13; ~ 182:21; 184:15,20;185:4, 7; 186:9; 191:17; 193:8; 210:4, 7,13,18; 212:4; 214:12;215:10,13,14,18 dollars 200:19 domain 14o:15 domestic 36:23; 121:17; 122:24;123:7;169;16; 180: 19; 188:24 Don 107:11,13;174:21, 25; 175:7; 189:13 Donald 23:16, 20 done 50:21; 66:6;150:20; 151:1,5,21;158:1,8; 161:4; 162:16; 164:25; 173:23;176:3;180:18; 203:18; 206:25; 209:19; 210:10;212:20;214:12, 16;218:11 Donner 23:20 Donohue 36:18 door 218:19 dossiers 145:19; 146:4, 8 double 55:24; 56:11; 57:22,23;58:10;201:24 double•slded 37:19; 157:11 down 15:3; 70:13; 89:1; 91:20; 96:23; 108:18; 110:8;155:4;178:21; 204:20; 206:12 Doyle 107:24; 154:12 dozen 184:12 dozens 22:23; 142:24 Dr 121:21,21; 122:3; 145,2;158:13,14,16; 164:11;202:24;203:14, 19;210:6;213:19 draft 143:6; 187:6 drafted 177:1; 179:4; 186:23;187:5;192:9 drafting 124:21;141:2 drafts 124:21, 25;176:8 draw 16:14; 30:24; 128:12;132;15;144:22; 180:4 drawing 167:21 drawn 145:1 draws 31:10 drew 14:1 drinking 15:1 driving 146:9; 147:6,22; 148:7,17;149:11, 24; 150:91-153:4;161:9 Drs 157:19 duces 8:17 duly 7:5 duplicated 202:2 Durden 45:7,10,17; 47:11,17,18,19; 48:4; 53:23; 54:5; 55:23; 59:12; 61:9,19; 62:3; 64:4, 25; 67:7; 78:3; 82:19; 88:3; 89:11; 167:24; 168:3; Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris 170:4;193:16 else's 82:6 Durden's 57:20, 25; 58:1, elsewhere 205:14; 9; 62:6,17;166:19; 222:24 170:14; 197:21 Ely 160:12,18 During 68:15; 76:14; emanated 117:25 147:12; 214:20; 216:5; emanating 177:25; 217:11 178:13 duties 214:22 emerged 68:13; 76:16; 187:21 E emerging 187:25 E62:1;122:13,14,16 emphasis 196:18 emphysema 16:25; e-y 207:22 52:16 each 15:3; 22:17; 99:3; employ 154:19 139:24; 188:25 employed 11:14,16; earlier 18:16; 59:7; 72:18; 20:21;148:15;177:12 - 76:18; 85:14; 96:25; employee 25:18; 36:16; 130:1; 185:12; 187:22; 56:23; 57:16; 62:5; 98:3; 206:18; 220:2 154:4; 214:8; 228:5 early 14:10, 23;15:8; employees 51:14,16; 16:13, 23;18:4, 5; 20:16; 25:11, 20, 23; 35:23; 48:25; 105:11,12 ease 19:3 easier 23:9;70:13 easy 17:22, 23; 28:22 , eat 91:15 economic 69:14; 95:19; 125:13;126:2;139:21; 140:4,14;158:21 economics 195:19 economist 69:24; 70:15; 158:16 Economists 63:15 edhing 124:12 edhor 163:8, 10 editors 209:5 education 108:21; 109:5 Edward 22:3 effect 13:6;18:2; 28:16; 60:2; 142:22 effective 93:22 ethicts 14:21;46:16 effectuated 172:10,17, 19 effort 41:23; 67:14,16; 146:18 efforts 49:8; 53:9; 66:20; 68:16; 76:15; 147:14 ehher19:14;31:17; 46:25; 77:3; 98:5; 105:3; 121:2;129:18;130:24; 138:12;141:16;156:10; 158:23;165:24;166:4; 169:6;180:11;190:19; 207:3; 212:5; 216:25; 221:25; 222:5; 224:19,22 electronic 218:1 element 66:1; 70:16; 91:4 elements 49:20; 51:12; 69:9; 72:17 else 58:4; 66:14; 72:23; 73:5; 121:1; 156:10; 162:14; 193:17; 204:8; 208:15 57:5; 148:24; 149:5; 228:17,17 employer 56:23; 57:16; 61:14; 72:25; 74:9; 214:25; 215:4; 219:12; 220:6 employer-only 57:16 employers 56:10 employment 9:9;10:15; 11:8; 80:6; 201:8; 214:20; 215:10; 218:14 encouraged 178:7 end 30:13; 67:10; 80:22; 187:12,13 engage 71:15 engaged 123:10 England 205:15 enhance 92:13 enjoy 17:8;71:16 enjoyed 14:17;17:8 enjoyment 71:16; 73:17 enough 7:25; 8:1; 34:12; 55:17; 59:1; 77:22; 84:8; 85:3, 9; 91:20;132:24; 140:2; 144:25; 161:1; 164:8;165:14,19;175:3; 191:1; 193:6; 201:17; 225:23 entail 216:20 enterprise 76:8; 77:2; 139:11,16; 140:5,9,21; 142:1 enterprises 170:8 entire 20:2; 102:11; 151:5; 200:16 entirety 30:7 enthies 105:24; 149:19; 158:2 enthled 151:25; 213:12; 228:17 entity 205:10; 217:5 environment 134:1; 146:15; 150:22; 175:19; 210:11;220:23 epidemiological 32:3, 8 eroded 191:11 erroneous 20511 error 140:7 escalating 18:15 especlally 215:9 espousing 150:1 . essence 160:25; 212:12 essential 25:22 essentially 24:22; 25:18; 26:11; 100: 17; 186:8,20 establish 74:22 established 202:15; 226:18 Estates 7:15 estimates 63:21 et7:18;108:22;119:20; 203:8 Eu rope 201:8; 216:11 even 62:4, 22; 65:4; 130:13,14;136:2;139:24; 156:4; 168:5,16; 185:5, 13;189:20;191:4, 8; 206:18;218:16,22 event 118:17,18 events 118:21 eventually 194:21 every 70:25; 82:12;183:9 everybody 12:13, 24; 13:5,16;55:18 everybody's 40:17 everyone 12:23; 29:11; 55:20 everything 30:25,25 evidence 116:5; 134:5; 135:1,19;136:1, 5,13; . 145:12; 224:8 ev1l116:22 evolve 204:8 ul Evry 26:8 0 exact 24:7; 220c14 ~` exactly 32:12; 55:6; 165:2 E•i EXAMINATION 7:8; ~ 214:18; 215:22; 221:4; ~ 229:2 examined 7:5 examining 215:13 example 50:7;103:10; 129:6;134:9; 207:1,15; 230:4 Examples 43:20;103:10 except 12:18 excess 130:8, 11; 131:3, 18; 133:12; 222:6, 8 exchange 38:8; 42:15 exclse 53:9,16; 207:2 exclusively 11:2, 3 excuse 34:3; 62:H;- 101:12;104:16;134:7; 135:4;136:20, 136:20,23154:5;165:12; 227:3; 228:13 EXECUTED 231:15 executlons 172:25 discussions • execotions (6) Min-U-Scripts Esquire Deposition Services
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iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Phllip Morris 24;18:3;19:16; 24:5,12, 13; 25:8; 38:1; 40:15; 51:5, 24; 61:7; 63:13; 64:7; 66:5; 68:15; 74:11; 76:10, 24; 89:21; 91:9; 106:18; 109:23;110:4;111:16; 114:10, 22; 132:7; 155:25; 171:2; 175:9; 178:25; 179:9;181:21;184;24; 208:6; 215:17 backed 113:20 background 9:20; 156:22 backing 155:22; 159:6 Bacon 107:15; 174:22; 185:9,13 bad 13:6,16; 29: 10 balance 103:7 based 17:7; 39:25; 66:15 basic 49:6; 67:14; 79:6; 84:10; 89:22; 219:20 basically 15:23;17:7; 20:5; 22:15; 23:14,17,17, 25; 25:19; 26:12,16; 38:6; 44:17; 45:1; 4922; 51:9; 53:13; 57:11; 65:25; 81:6; 103:5,11,13,15;147c9; 149:25; 164:7; 181:6; 199c21;203:20;204:10; 205:10; 216:23; 217:10; 220:25 basis 125:11;137:9; 193:5 Bates 33:8; 37:20; 40:20; 54:2;61:21;68:1,1,2; 78:4; 92:9; 98:12;102:1; 118:11;124:3;138:7; 153:14;162:6;166:23; 171:16;177:3;186:24; 192:11; 193:18; 197:21; 199:13 battle 44:1; 123:14 Bear 205:16 bearing 64:14; 67:3; 98:12; 118:11; 124:2; 138:7; 153:14; 157:2; 162:1; 166:18; 171:16; 186:24;192:11;193:18; 199:13 bears 33:7; 40:19; 54:1; 140:1; 166:23; 197:20 became 40:13; 43:4; 48:16 become 43:17; 164:4 becoming 72:4 beg 89:19 beginning 30:13 behalf 35:25; 39:2; .107:19;174:18;176:3,11, 21; 185:4; 188:23; 190:23; 191:8, 23; 203:3; 210:21; 216:1,18, 21 behest 158:8 behind 146:10 bel1e},13:22; 74:4; 229:12 believe 7:25; 11:7; 12:14; 13:7,18;14:11;16:16,24; 19:16; 20:15,16; 25:15; 28:18;29:3,14;30:20,23; 31:1,12; 34:9, 23; 36:19; 39:24; 45:14; 47:12,19; 48:1, 7; 49:2; 53:3; 54:12; 62:21; 66:24; 67:9; 75:11; 76:11; 77:11; 81:13,17; 85:15; 94:10,12; 99:13, 20; 105:17; 107:18; 108:13; 113:14; 114:6; 118:18,20; 120:17,23; 121:18; 122:15,19; 125:21; 134:24; 135:18; 137:3;138:8;139:23; 140:23;141:3;154:1; 155:14;159:16;163:3, 9, 10, 16; 164:1; 167:17; 168:15,17; 169:22,24; 171:23;172:11,13; 174:25;17&20;187:14; 188:5, 10; 194:23; 196:17; 198:19; 200:15; 203:19; 205:17; 206:14; 207:18, 23; 220:2,10; 221:12; 225:24; 229:11,18 believed 13:15;29:17; 30:22; 64:7; 86:16; 122:4; 135:24; 197:1; 228:21 believing 144:9 bell47:22 belong 105:20 belonged 105:23 below 177:24 beneath 145:13 benefit 72:13,15;73:3, 13,17,19, 22;199:22; 209:4 benefks 15:4; 53:5; 71:3, 6, 7,19, 20; 72:2, 7, 21; 73:1, 8; 95:21 Berger 169:18,18, 20, 23,24 Berkeley 142:15 Berman 124:16,18; 125:3,10;126:1;141:2, 22;154:6, 23;159:10,11; 160:8; 209:13; 210:16; 212:4 Berman's 131:15;154c7 Besldes 55:22 best 9:18; 15:17; 26:10; 42:12, 20; 66:3;147:7 better 138:22; 169:21; 195:16; 209:2 beyond 73:15; 186:8; 189:19 blg 182:15; 184:8,17 Bill 193:25; 194:2 billlon 63:22, 22, 23 bills62:24;63:4;65:8,21; II 91:12 binder 200:6,17,17; 201:16 blrth 12:6 bit 9:20; 29:5; 46:18; 49:4, 5; 67:17; 70:15; 73:11; 75:18; 123:23; 194:25; 212:1 btts 30:6 black 30:24, 25; 49:25; 69:5,19; 70:6; 134:16 black/white 75:13 blaming 103:15 board 68:4, 7,10; 99:2; 118:10;120:21;180:23; 186:22; 192:23; 193:2; 199:12, 20; 200:1, 2,13, 17 Bob 160:12,18 body 165:10,14; 217:16 boss 19:20 both 20:10; 22:1; 36:22; 47:17; 73:2; 120:8; 157:13; 158:14; 169:3; 199:3 bottom 100:6; 155:17; 202:3 Box 138:8 bralnstorming 130:21 branch 10:19 brand 27:5, 8, 9,15; 109:25; 214:9 brand-new 117:5, 5; 214:8 brands 27:16 break 37:24; 78:9; 97:12; 101:21; 106:25; 107:2; 171:8 breathing 15:16 Brenda 23:21 Brian 188:6,8 brktf 34:20; 78:14 brktfing 154c11 bring 34:24; 44:5; 54:21; 59:16; 60:16;113:8 bringing 59:13; 61:9 brings 91:9 BrRaln 99:6, 9,10 British 32:7 Brhlsh-American 38:16; 39:16;99:25;119:13 broaden 49:19 broader 72:12; 73:4 brought 14:5; 42:10; 44:5; 147:16, 18; 167:24 Brown 38:13,19, 20, 22 Brussels 180:9, 11; 181:2,15,17, 25;182:4, 8, 11,12,17, 25;183:4, 8; 199:13; 205:19; 208:23 budget 165:8,17; 188:14; 193:9; 197:17,18, 24; 198:3,4,25; 200:4, 9, 12,14,16, 25; 201:13 budget's 201:18 budgeUexpendhures 165:1 budgeted 198:8 budgets 165:13, 20; 200:8 bulld 93:23 Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Script® building 184:11,12 bunch 195:19 burden 79:7,12; 84:5 burdens 67:1;80:8;91:1 business 7:11; 61:20, 21; 62:11,18,19;63:2,14; 65:2, 3; 67:9; 76:8; 77:1; 85:13; 149:3; 168:5, 11; 170:6,20,20;219:20 buslnesses 168:4 buy 93:7, 25 buyout 24:8 C C 39:14; 47:6;198:13 Caglarcen 62:1 cak:ulate 63:15 Callfornia 7:1,15; 228:15 call 24:21; 79:7;127:3; 140;20;143:6;155:1; 169:20; 185:1; 192:25; 204:3; 207:4; 228:7 called 20:10; 32:21; 49:8; 73:8; 97:17, 22;102:5; 139:1;154:15;162:6; 197:2; 204:12; 213:23; 219:16 cailing 58:7 calls 65:2; 190:24; 191:19 came 10:18;14:23;15:8; 24:18; 45:1; 48:24; 53:20; 66:5; 98:22; 105:13,16; 172:14; 196:6,7 campaign 104:22; 105:6, 11; 171:16,19; 172:10, 19; 213:2 campalgns 172:13, 23; 180:17 can 15:12; 17:13,15; 19:1; 21:15; 22:25; 23:3; 26:10; 30:16; 33:10; 35:2, 4, 5; 36:6; 37:8, 23; 43:25; 54:24; 60:9; 68:3; 72:2; 73:13; 88:9; 89:4; 91:25; 92:1, 3; 93:6; 96:13; 100:12; 101:24; 102:12; 104:18; 105:12; 106:17; 109:14; 115:4; 128:19; 129:13,17; 134:12; 135:10,18;13746; 148:22; 149:18,22; 160:2, 21; 161:17; 162:14,17; 199:3; 208:8; 213:14; 217:23;227:14;229:11 Canada 99:9 cancer 16:15; 30:17; 31:11; 52:16; 190:2 1; 191:15; 221:17, 21, 21; 225:20 capaclty 11:18; 35:24; 174:19; 209:24; 210:1 capital 179:15,15 capturing 130:20 cardlovascular16:17 Itichard J. Marcotulllo October 30, 1998 56:21,21,22;57:4,5,8, 13; 58:25; 64:19; 66:21; 67:11; 80:13,19; 85:17, 17; 86:2; 87:11; 88:13, 24; 219:24 career 25:6; 98:2 careers 147:13 carefui127:2,16;128:5, 9; 130:7 carefully 151:4 Carolina 19:11 carried 16:2; 22:5;105:6; 146:18 carry 105:18 case 7:17; 8:7, 11; 14:15; 36:5; 54:16; 67:6; 88:21; 145:10; 150:12; 175:13; 191:11 cases 12:12; 13:5; 226:16 causation 189:7 cause 14:12; 16:24,24; 17:20; 30:17; 31:10; 91:19; 131:3; 136:11; 170:17; 221:21; 222:8,16; 223:2, 4, 5 caused 12:13; 13:5,17; 16:15,17; 18:22; 23:23; cn 50:17; 52:6; 63:16, 24; 81:20 ~ causes 29:25; 85:15; ro 134:3, 6, 23;135:1, 20; 136:9,14;190:8, 21; ~ 191:14;221:17;222:6; .... 225:19 N caution 174:10; 176:14 cc 121:20,23 center 50:19; 204:13,23; 206:2, 22; 207:6,17; 208:19,22 CEO 22:4, 5; 25:2; 26:3, 17 certain 52:6; 103:17; 175:20; 182:12; 208:25; 222:16,17; 224:1; 225:7 certainly 14:14; 22:3; 30:10; 34:14; 42:5,13; 46:7; 51:13; 52:4; 64:23; 72:21; 74:7; 76:17; 80:4; 86:5;101:8;106:5; 111:19;1122;125:21; 129:14; 131:9; 146:8; 156:15; 170:16; 182:13; 197:14; 202:17; 212:8; 224:4,12,15 cetera 108:22;119:20; 203:8 chair 153:24; 154:1 chaired 42:3, 6 chalrman 24:10;45:7; 153:21 -- chance 144:15 change 20:13; 21:20; 48:24; 104:23,24, 25; 123:1; 170:17,23; 192:19; 194:17 care 50:14,19; 52:23; I changed 67:17; 196:9 (3) backed - changei t
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MarcotuIIio Philip Morris October 30, 1998 17,18;105:3;150:10; 15, 21;175:24;176:21; 48:13; 56:20; 65:19; Issues 19:7,8;29:7; 165:18;166:8;176:4; 177:2,21;179:23;182:6; 80:17; 84:19; 95:9; 96:6; 32:22; 42:15; 45:18; 46:1, 185:5; 208:16; 219:3; 185:2; 186:10,21; 187:15, 98:3, 25;101:7;107:8; 9, 20; 52:25; 53:4,15; 223:25;227:8,22 21, 24; 188:18; 190:19,19, 108:7,11,19,25; 109:5; 54:7; 63:8; 83:1; 89:22; Indlvidually 41:18; 20; 191:16; 199:12; 110:19; 112:14; 113:19, 90:11; 120:12; 122:6,6; 172:22 200:12,16, 23; 202:15, 25; 24; 115:13; 116:14; 118:7; 140:14, 25;145:10; 203:6 24; 204:7 19; 19 121:2 14; 120:7 9 147:12;158:13 158:13 21 Indlviduals 21:1; 29:9; 41:13; 59:14; 72:9,13; , , , 205:6, 9; 206:2; 207:25; , , ; 122:20, 23;123:2;169:2; , , 20; 179:25; 188:14; 189:3; 107:21;118:9;121:20; 208:17; 209:3; 211:9,18; 175:18;176:16;177:12; 190:6;195:18,19; 206:8, 124:2;146:5;149:8,14; 212:6,14; 218:7; 220:5; 183:19; 188:24; 198:13; 9; 209:5; 216:24; 217:13, 165:17; 209:12; 210:21; 223:10; 226:8; 229:18 205:24; 208:6; 209:21; 14,14,15;218:18,20; 222:17; 224:22; 227:1, 17, ingredlent 197:2; 223:5 210:8; 214:21; 215:1, 5, 219:1 24; 229:14 Ingredlents 218:21; 11, 15; 216:12,16,16; Issuing 104:10 Induce 79:24; 80:23 222:16 217:8,13; 219:18; 220:6; Item 154:10;165:8; 221:9 189:2 199:23 Inducement 195:13 Inltlal 173:1; 176:8 ; inducing 88:4 Inhlaled 231:12 Internatkinal's 188:21 items 138:14 Indulge 62:22; 65:3 Inklals 178:21; 179:1,2 Internatlo nalization iterations 159:19 155:9 Itself 44:20; 46:11; 53:11; Industrtes 44:8; 45:16; Inhtated 26:20 internatIonallzIng 66:21;75:23; 104:4; 62:10; 73:1; 98:24;148:2; Inhiatlve 119:14; 153:2 155:8,10,11 118:15;119:19;145:23; 218:22; 219:19 Industry 18:7;38:9; Ink 231:12 Insert 60:9 Internationally 25:1; 161:6; 218:10 162:25; 178:1,9;184:3; 218:2; 225:19 42:16,18; 43:21, 24; Inslde 95:10,11 Internet33:18;34:15 Ivory-tower 170:8 44:12,18,19,22,25;45:1; 49:10; 52:24; 62:23; 63:4; Inslsting 110:18 Interofflee 53:23;124:1; 64:8; 65:4, 5,13,18, 22; 4 6 Instance 91:10; 203:5; 209:3 13 166:20 J 66:20, 2 ; 9:12; 72:24, , Interpose 54:11; 90:21; 25; 73:9; 74:8; 75:23; 76:3; Instances 95:14 176:13;228:14' J 7:4,13; 47:21; 122:13, 81:8,14,18; 83:23; 84:24; Institute 101:2,9;106:4; Interpret 93:5 14; 231:9,19 85:7; 88:11, 23; 89:14; 125:13; 126:2,14; 139:11, interrupt 136:21 J-uc-h-a-t-z 36:19 91:1,10; 92:12, 23, 23; 16 10 22; 21;140:4 5 93:2, 7; 94: 1; 103:8,15; , , , , 22; 142:1;188:9;193:9 Interruption 77:23; J.D 10:13 104:9; 109:25; 110:17; , 194:3,12; 210:22 226:11; 227:2; 228:1 Jacob 122:13,14,15 20; 113:2 111:21; 112:9 Interruptions 152:5 James 183:15 , , 8;115:15;116:4;117:5; Instruct 228:14, 22 Interviewed 210:23 January 63:12 78:2; 118:19;126:18;127;6; instruction 176:19 Into 10:17; 15:15; 23:4; ; 89:12 129:8,15,17; 130:25; insurers 57:12 29:24; 33:10; 42:10; job 21:18 20; 25:4; 132:15;146:13,14; Intelligent 7:25 49:17, 20; 55:11; 66:5, 8; , 169:19; 214:22 147:10, 11; 148:15; 149:1; Intended 116:11;173:6 73:3; 91:15; 117:6; John's 10:3 150:2; 158:24; 172:6,22; Intending 33:11;194:15 128:14;129:18;164:2; 180:1 4 183:7 195:5 12 Jolned 10:20; 11:9; 18:6, , ; ; ; , Intent 34:14 178:2;187:21;1881; 196:1; 211:1; 212:20; 204:9 9;19:13; 43:4; 76:19; 219:2; 220:15; 229:22 lntention 34:8; 49:18; 109:22; 123:2 125:22 Intolerance 103:11 Industry's 31:22; 66:3; joining 18:11; 183:7; 81:4; 89:23; 90:12; 91:18 Intercompany 118:7 Intolerant 103:16 215:19 Inform 210:24 Interest 36:15; 42:20; Intrigued 50:8 Jones 34:4 61:14; 66:4; 76:3; 83:2; Introduce 215:25 Journa154:5 58:17 Information 38:8; 40:22; 42:15; 48:21; 61:15; 93:4; 88:25;121:24;139:11; investor11:21 ; ; 59:13, 18;61:10 100:18 20;101:8;103:6; 140:22;158:9,10;188:10; Invite 119:2,5 journals 226:18 23 , 191:11; 213:25; 216:25; , 106:6;147:5 8 16 19; Involved 34:22; 38:17; Juchatz 36:18 , , , 219:2 148:2, 6;149.2, 8,13; 39:2,19; 40:1, 9; 50:20; judge 137:3; 150:15; 161:9,19;177:25;178:12; Interested 24:22; 55:24; 51:25; 76:17;103:3; 151:10 19 179:15,16, 21;180:5,13; 77:15 122:7;126:24;169:15; , judgment 94:5 144:22 181:17;185:2 18 22; Interesting 219:9 206:1; 221:8 ; , , 188:1; 203:16; 204:4; 206:10;207:14 Interests 44:8, 10; 54:25; 170:20 Involvement 98:17; 204:6 judgments 66:15,17 Julian 107:24;154:11 I nf ormatlon-co I lecti ng interfere 150:12 (nvolving 170:20 June 19:14,15; 23:23; 202:18 Interject 66:8 10 108:19;109:4,8; 43:2; 118:7; 157:2;159:3 information•gathering Internal 31:17; 32:2; 110:9 11; 111:25; 112:24; 179:24 118:24; 145:20 , 198:20 K Informatlonal 199:24 d I li I 7 17 Informative 55:8 Informed 60:22 nterna ze 87:21 internallztng 155:6 International 11:10,12, ron : isolation 75:1 Issue 32:5; 35:1; 54:1; K+ae-p-f-e-r 194:1 keep 96:4;97:1;114:24 INFOTAB 40:7,13; 47:3; 17; 19:22; 20:3, 4, 8,13; 57:21; 59:8; 64:12; 66:13; Ken 85:13 48:17 19; 67:15 17 22; 21:10 14; 22:4 19; 9 70:6; 72:12; 75:18; 80;7 , , , 68:4, 7; 77:3; 97:19; 98:5; , , , 23:2, 25; 24:11,18; 25:16, , 12; 94:24,25; 114:6,7; Kenneth 63:20 103:22, 22;118:15;157:3, 18; 26:5,19, 24; 27:10; 141:8;155:14;175:22; kept 180:24,25; 186:9; 24; 166:20; 168:13; 31:18; 32:21, 22, 25; 177:18,19;200:4;211:20; 224:10 170:18; 171:15; 172:13, 37:14; 39:13; 43:18; 47:7; 229:7,13,19 key 116:8 klnd 32:8; 68:19; 71:12; 84:21; 86:10; 129:8; 142:8;145:19;161:19; 162:16;169:5;174:22; 194:25;199:16; 206:3; 216:21;221:21,21 Kloepter193:25;194:2 knew 12:13;13:5,16; 16:1; 43:5; 45:11; 48:10, 11; 86:11; 96:15 knocking 218:19 knowing 36:16; 214:4 knowledge 13:23; 33:22; 42:12; 118:15; 126:12, 19; 141:25; 144:20; 147:7; 148:14; 173:11,14; 187:17; 204:5; 221:18, 23; 222:3 known 72:5; 110:18; 112:21;113:1;114:1; 115:16;116:18,19,24; 147:9; 208:3 Kobert 24:9 ~n Kravls 24:9 a -J r L na: L's 166:7 ~ i Lack 96:9;169:21 large 29:11; 59:3; 72:25, 25; 76:4; 217:16 Iarger24:25;101:10 last 32:16; 37:17; 41:4; 44:11; 56:3; 62:15; 78:10; 83:4;144:16;145:7, 8; 165:22;177:19. 24; 201:23;204:3,4;229:5, late 14:4,10, 22;15:7; 16:13, 23;18:3, 4; 35:23; 76:22 later 19:23; 47:3; 86:22; 97:19;103:4; 228:19 Law 10:4, 5,16,17;11:4; 175:19; 228:16 lawsu$s 175:11 lawyer 36:6; 47:9; 54:17; 55:4,18, 20;107:14,17; 122:14; 174:9 lawyers 55:1,9 lay 60:19; 226:20 lead 16:9;167:17 leader 162:9 leaders 146:5; 149:14; 177:13; 222:5 leadershlp 119:14; 146:20;156:20 leading 140:24; 146:25 leads 87:5 leaflets 156:8 learned 217:11 least 19:21; 30:14; 34:5, 24; 40:20; 42:23; 52:5,14; 56:11; 58:22; 64:4,19, 24; 75:24; 82:17; 84:18; 85:11; 92:9;109:23; Esquire Deposition Services Min-U-Scripts (9) individually - least
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Richard J. Marcotullio Iron Workers Local Union No. 171nsurance v. October 30, 1998 Phillp Morris 22:19; 24:7,10; 36:22; 39:12; 45:16; 47:9; 62:1Q; 120:3, 5;162:9;169:4, 6; 180:18; 183:19; 214:25; 21 S:4 11,15; 228:7 R.J.R8:8;11:11;19:3; 20:13,14; 24:10,18; 31:18,18; 34:3; 47:1; 53:23; 54:24; 55:5,19; 65:19; 78:22; 80:16; 84:18; 90:10; 96:6; 109:22;118:7;120:2; 122:8;138:8;157:6; 166:19; 169:1,2; 176:15; 188:21,21,22,24,24; 205:24; 209:21; 210:7; 228:5 R.J.R:s 78:.19;107:17; 188:17 radio 209:5; 210:24 Ragsner 187:10 raise 54:15; 69:6; 80:4; 151:10; 153:2; 226:17 ralsed 34:5; 35:2; 51:19; 53:15; 74:17; 84:12; 157:14 raising 75:21; 226:14, 24 range 217:14 ranging 195:19 rate 21:23; 37:16;123:8; 163:20;170:4;197:20; 207:2 rates 207:15, 15 rather 15:13; 25:2; 29:11; 30:11; 48:22; 49:25; 69:15; 70:10; 84:17; 119:22; 173:18; 178:16; 188:2; 227:16 ratio 87:4 Raymond 23:19 re 171:15 reach 31:5 reached 24:15; 26:18 reactions 173:1 read 9:2; 28:24; 29:13; 30:4, 6, 8,12; 48:25; 51:5, 7; 54:8; 57:19; 58:17,18; 61:8; 64:23, 23; 68:2; 70:25; 76:14; 78:13; 79:2; 82:18; 83:5; 85:13; 96:16; 102:12; 108:18; 109:22; 110:5,8;113:3;114:10, 12, 22;115:2;120:13,15; 124:25;128:2,6;134:14; 144:4;147:3;155:13: i 62:21; 178:10; 193:17; 194:1; 231:10 reading 59:15;62:19; 64:4; 21; 77:6; 79:19; 90:7; 96:6; 110:3; 112:18; 138:15,22; 143:5; 145:2, 8;168:21;178:11 reads 179:12 ready 167:9 real 86:21; 105:2 realigned 26:3,15 realtty 134:21; 139:1 realize 76:1; 82:12 reallocate 84:21 reallocating 83:21 reallocation 83:7,14,18, 20; 84:8; 95:25; 96:24 really 14:17; 17:5,6; 27:8; 28:21; 29:8, 8, 9; 31:6; 36:15; 43:7; 46:9; 48:21; 49:14; 50:5,11,15, 19; 52:8; 56:25; 68:18; 74:25; 75:1, 21; 87:24; 93:20; 94:14;103:23; 104:19; 109:19; 116:10; 117:4; 126:8,9; 133:19; 135:4;136:20;145:24; 168:17; 170:23,25;181:7; 194:16; 196:18,19,21; 199:17; 202:1; 204:19; 206:9,10 reason 22:12; 56:18; 93:9; 109:20; 110:23; 113:15;114:5,21;116:2; 132:18;133:5, 9, 22, 24; 140:3;154:171- 181:6; 185:8;191:25; 207:23; 218:24; 228:15 reasonable 156:16; 178:11;189:8,9;198:20; 208:9 reasons 42:9; 43:12; 44:4; 46:14; 50:4; 69:15; 112:13; 161:18 recall 8:19; 17:5; 26:10; 27:8,15; 29:22; 30:11; 32:10; 38:22; 39:9, 22; 46:11; 47:2; 49:22; 50:20; 51:16,18, 24; 54:9; 62:12; 64:22; 65:25; 69:6; 70:19; 71:7; 72:6; 75:4, 8; 77:7, 18;80:5,7;81:5;86:4; 88:3; 95:13; 98:23; 100: 17; 103:8, 11; 109:19; 110:10, 22; 111:3,17, 24; 112:4; 113:14,15,16, 18; 115:21; 116:10,15; 117:4, 13;118:2, 20;126:4, 8; 129:21, 23;130:12,17,19; 132:6, 8;138;14;140:13; 141:22;142:4,18;143:3, 5, 7, 9,12,15, 20, 24; 144:24; 145:2,6; 146:2, 7; 148:10;156:7,11,17, 23; 158:6,10;159,4;160:10, 20, 23;161:7,13,15; 162:14,17; 163:6,13,17, 22; 167:3,12; 168:2,21; 170:3,12, 22;171:6; 173:8,24,25;174:16; 175:7; 176:20; 178:9; 180:2,14;183:1;185:19, 24; 186:3,5,13; 193:4,11; 196:21; 197:9; 198:19,24; 201:3; 202:12; 204:18; 205:7,19;206:16;207:20; 209:19;211:4,6,17; 212:24; 213:1, 4, 4, 5, 8, 11,15;215:14 recalling 182:24 received 20:19; 126:17; 166:25; 212:5; 228:5, 9 receives 126:16 receiving 8:19; 62:12 recent 56:7; 167:15 recently 193:25 recess 97:13;171:10 recltation 68:18 recognition 185:11 recognize 41:12;111:18; 140:4;142:12;168:1; 195:25 recollection 9:13;77:4; 103:4;106:12;113:21; 138:12;156:5;176:2,24; 182:10;183:5;185:3, 25; 191:4;194:13;198:22; 201:1;214:3;215:20 recommendation 178:5 recommending 217:3 reconvene 151:13,18 record 7:12; 8:21; 19:23; 34:13; 37:25; 38:1; 51:7; 54:20; 107:4; 110:5; 114:12; 134:14; 147:3; 152:4; 215:25 record's 21:8 records 182:2 recoup 64:13 recouped 64:18 recover 79:12;197:19 reduce 80:12,18 reducing 55:25; 57:22; 80:13,19; 95:19 reduction 96:1, 25 Reemtsma 99:15,16 reevaluation 192:15 reexaminatlon 192:15 refer 20:21; 48:19; 58:16; 139:20 reference 9:7; 31:14; 55:22,24;96:21;102:22; 109:19; 155:14; 163:6; 200:15,16; 202:13,19 referenced 132:9; 144:18;198:21 referred 32:11; 48:20; 52:2; 58:10;125:3, 4; 139:7,16;193:23 referring 8:22; 13:8; 40:4; 58:12; 59:9; 67:6; 76:13, 24; 81:1;108:12; 139:5; 164:21; 169:17; 179:22; 193:2; 198:20 refers 63:14,14; 68:14; 107:11; 139:21; 141:19; 157:18; 159:23; 172:24; 189:2; 213:23 reflect 120:11; 152:4 reflected 113:10; 143:23; 144:11;200:25 reflectlon 195:3,16 reflective 187:25; 196:20 reflects 201:9 refresh 176:24; 194:13 refreshes 138:11 regard 54:14; 164:17; 174:12; 222:20, 21; 224:22 regarding 35:14; 89:12; 107:8;118:9;138:6; 192:10; 199:12; 202:25; 213:2; 214:1; 228:18 regional 219:18 relate 127:24; 223:16 related 18:17; 40:19; 52:15; 54:7; 80:12; 81:17; 86:16;127:13;153:12; 157:3;159:1;177:9,19; 188:14;195:18; 213:19 relates 31:20; 220:23; 223:12 relating 103:4;141:12; 158:24;177:2;179:25; 218:20 relations 10:21; 11:1,4, 21, 21, 21;19:7; 48:2; 93:23; 104:22; 194:8; 205:22; 209:21; 210:2; 216:18 relationship 20:8; 21:11; 85:16;154:18 relatives 18:24 relaxes 71:10 release 178:14 rek+ases 104:11 relevancy 217:10 relevant 38:9; 42:16; 149:3; 180:1; 211:17 rely 111:15 remained 194:23 remember 23:3; 38:15; 50:8;166:11;194:16; 206:23 remind 172:1 rented 184:10 reorgantzatbn 25:20, 25; 26:2, 9 repeat 92:6; 215:3 repeated 152:5 repeating 13:1;82:5; 102:19; 129:25; 143:19; 220:9 rephrase 7:22; 86:19 replaced 123:4; 188:4,5 report 30:9; 32:6; 82:25; 101:14; 138:6; 143:6; 154:24; 162:7,18; 200:7; 221:20,25; 224:10, 10 reported 22:6; 82:15; 113:5; 189:13 reporter 157:15 reporting 25:1; 268, 4, 17;109:23;189:11 reports 30:5;141:21; 162:16; 207:25; 208:17 repository 33:17; 34:11 represent 7:16; 54:20, 25;136024; 210:24; 212:15; 224:6, 7 representation 33:11; 34:13; 41:10;120:8; 226:3 representative 161:1 representatives 98:23; 99:3;123:9 represented 8:3,6; 42:19; 63:24;130:20; 175:21 representing 8:11;' 55:19; 150:13; 175:3 representa 55:12; 64:11; 77:10; 84:4 reputable 125:12; 225:22, 24; 226:2 request 207:4, 9,12,13; 212:17 requested 9:5 requests 208:13 requlre 65:12; 145:13; 21111 reserve 189:14 reside 7:14 residence 7:11 resigned 25:10,17 resolved 175:22 resource 48:21; 122:10; 180:3, 5,19; 202:19; 206:11 res o u rc es 119: 24;154:7 respect 33:13; 214:22 respond 42:20;75:2; 127:21; 149:24 response 76:7, 25; 77:5, 6;933;220:1,10;229:5 responsibil@Ies 20:5; 23:15; 41:16; 48:4;101:3; 216:14;218:3 responsibility 11:20; 210:12; 223:18 responsible 26:21; ' 223:13, 20 responsive 114:17, 21; 208:12 rest 79:2; 155:13 restricting 46:14 restrictions 43:16; 46:7; 168:23, 25;169:5,12; ' 220:24 result 30:2; 33:21; 64:14; 180:9;200;24 results 87:16; 173:12 resume 28:22 retain 228:19 retained 108:4;176:17 retainer 175:7 rethink 167:i5 retlrement 25:11, 20, 23 retiring 26:13 return 187:12 returned 19:16 reveal 174:11; 176:14 revenue 72:19, 20 revenues 72:20 reverse 24:7 RJ.R • reverse (] 4) Min-U-Scrip4® Esquire Deposition Services
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Iron Workers Local Unlon No. 17 Insurance v. Ric d J. Marco 0 • Philip Morris October 30, 1998 ph(losophy 10:12 phone 207:3, 5; 228:7 phonetkc39:23:187:10 phrase 51:2; 65:9 phrasing 75:7 Physically 182:16 physician's 32:7 physk:lans 226:15; 227:8 pick 50:14, 18; 118: 1; 207:3 Piece 61:21 pieces 30:6 place 26:10; 35:21; 66:20; 113:12,17; 116:6; 150:19;179:18;181:3, 3; 185:17, 22;186:2;198:23, 24;210:10 placed 228:7 places 46:15; 225:18 PLAINTIFF 8:15; 33:3; 53:17; 61:16; 67:20; 77:24; 89:7; 98:7; 106:22; 118:3;123:21;138:3; 153:9;156:24;161:23; 166:13; 171:11; 176:22; 186:17;192:4;193:12; 197:15; 199:7; 202:21; 213:16 PlalntNf'a 41:1; 220:1, 13; 229:5 plalntiffs 7:17 plan 57:8; 100:8,11,24; 101:12,12;104:13; 192:25; 209:2 planned 108:15 plans 48:23; 56:23; 57:16,17;105:19 platform 106:14 platforms 150:1 play 174:22 playing 196:4 please 7:12; 167:9 plus 200:9, 9 point 13:7, 23; 31:5; 42:3; 48:3; 63:10; 66:8; 70:22; 77:14; 89:4; 98:2, 4, 6; 103:12; 107:25; 109:11, 15,17,20; 111:11; 152:20; 171:3, 7; 205:9,17; 206:6; 211:17; 212:23, 24; 222:25; 224:5; 225:12; 227:25;230:5 polnting 140:11 points 38:8; 66:15; 186:21 polk:y 80:12;168:5, 6; 211:9,14; 212:12 polftical 142:20 pollution 1517,20 porttollos 145:19 posed 49:23 positlon 23:18; 25:21; 31:22; 32:4; 45:12; 54:13, 22; 61:13; 65:25; 78:19; 120:12,18, 20;122:2,19, 25; 123:14, 17; 131:1; 132:23;133:13, 23;186:6; 188:10,12;189:19, 23; 190:5,10;191:11,14; 194:6;195:22; 216:5; 217:3, 4; 222:6,11; 224:6; 225:18, 21 posnbning 173:5, 21 pos(tlons 23:19; 26:14; 131:19;132:19; 212:16; 216:7; 229:7, 22 possesslon 9:8 possibility 128:25; 129:1 possible 28:15; 46:8; 135:25 possibly 96:1, 25;145:14 potentlal 64:12;175:11; 191:23 potentially 74:8;193:16 practlce 10:5;168:11; 173:21 practk:ed 11:4 practices 168:5 pragmatics 70:13 preceded 37:10;98:17; 158:23 precedes 80:6; 128:1 preclse 111:1 preclsely 61:12; 86:4; 180:3; 206:16 predecessor4o:5 predicate 60:19 predisposed 62:21 preference 28:6 premature 127:5,11,12; 128:22; 129:20,22; 131:3, 17;133:11;134:3, 6, 23; 135:1, 20; 136:9,11,14; 222:7, 8 premise 84:15 premlums 56:15 prepare 124:8; 192:24; 198:11 prepared 179:3;180:17; 199:20; 200:17; 202:9; 215:19 preparing 100:7 present 59:22; 63:9; 68:20; 129:7 presentatlon 68:3; 202:9, 11; 213:11 presented 35:1; 136:2; 209:18 preserve 85:7; 89:15; 220:15 preserved 137:15 preskient 22:5 Presldent's 56:8 press 104:10 presumably 72:21; 127:14; 144:20; 159:11; 160:17;161:3;164:24; 178:23; 180:25; 190:3 presums 73:14 presumptlon 167:2 pretry 13:22;73:6; 182:10,12; 183:10; 208:25; 214:12 Prevention 213:12, 24 preventive 108:21 previous 104:21;139:17; 159:22;198:15; 217:12 previously 47:8; 139:5 Price 56:8 prlmarlly 14:7; 19:7; 47:5; 48:2; 51:16; 105:2; 107:18;122:4;185:4; 186:14; 216:17 Primary 189:3 print 201:24 prlor 15:10;18:7; 33:14; 53:20; 68:15; 76:14; 140:7; 152:20,22; 158:9; 159:3, 4;176:10;178:1, 14; 215:10,19 Prlority 56:4 private 168:4,10 privlk+ge 33:13, 24, 24; 34:6,14,16 prlvileged 34r10;174:11 probably 11:25; 14:3; 17:5; 20:15; 22:24; 27:4, 12,16; 35:22; 36:18; 38:14; 44:20; 59:2; 72:18; 111:1; 119:5; 121:5; 127:1;138:22,23;139:15; 140,23;149:4;159:10; 179:5, 6;180:7,10; 184:12;191:7;195:4; 198:21; 206:14; 210:9,10; 225:11 problem 17:18; 35:6; 61:2; 69:4; 96:4; 97:1; 192:8; 225:2 problems 43:15 procedures 9:16 proceedings 34:23; 77:23; 226:11; 227:2; 228:1 process 28:21;124:13; 131:14; 137:8; 147:21; 148:11;152:12;176:21 produce 79:24; 88:4; 179:13 produced 98:10 product 18:1,11;91:18; 93:19; 175:11; 186:6,15; 189:18, 20, 23;190:9; 191:5; 197:2; 217:25; 218:2;221:7,8,17 productions 59:7 productive 51:15 producth+ity 63:24 Products 10:20; 24:20; 53:16; 94:22; 139:13; 215:1, 5; 217:2; 219:24; 220:21, 24; 221:10,11, 20; 222:1,1, 7,12,19; 223:6, 9,12,15,17 Professor 155:21; 156:10; 163:12,13,17; 164:11;210:5 professors 165:4 proflles 106:8, 8;156:19, 21 profh 90:12 profltably 85:8;89:15, 24; 220:7,15, 20 profits 91:7,13,16,19 program 55:23; 74:12, i 21; 113:8; 209:2; 210:24 Programs 45:4; 53:8; 56:9; 93:24, 25; 109:6 progress 138:5; 141:19; I 154:24;162:7;164:1Q 13; I 170:18 -- proJect 68:13, 24; 69:1; 71:2; 73:25; 74:12; 76:6, 16; 77:3, 8;155:22;156:3; , 157:3, 4;159:6;162:6, 7, 8;163:10;171:7;191:9; 192:11,18, 24;193:23, 23; I 196:14; 229:25 proJectbns 201:12,15, I 16 proJects 42:8; 98:18; 124:6; 141:12; 165:5 pronouncements 14:8 proper 60:25 properly 175:21 proponent 84:21 proponent's 82:3 proponents 81:13; 83:24; 84:17; 85:12, 24; 86:23; 87:9 proportlon 86:13 proposals 80:12,18; 98:15;100:7; 213:3; 217:15 proposed 203:8 proposing 43:15 proscriptions 168:6 protect 44:10; 191:10 protected 175:21 protections 191:13 protocol 211:5 prove 31:15 provide 76:7, 25; 79:25; 87:23; 103:6,7; 153:5; 186:14; 193:9 provided 33:7; 35:5; 57:12; 67:11;125:11; 128:4;130:6;185:4; 210:6; 211:19; 212:12 providing 42:13; 88:5; 119:23; 148:2; 193:22; 194:12; 212:8 prudent 191:7 publk:10:1;11:21;14:8; 19;6,19; 22:8; 23:1; 45:14; 46:15; 48:2, 4,12; 62:7; 75:23; 80:11, 23; 94:1,18; 95:5; 98:4;103:20;104:6, 7, 8, 22, 22, 23, 25, 25; 107:8; 111:22; 112:9,21; 113:9; 118:17,18,21; 119:16,19; 121:18; 123:10;140:15;168:6,23, 25; 194:7; 198:13; 205:22, 22; 206:11; 209:17,20,21; 210:2, 2, 4, 25; 211:12,19, 22;212:16;225:18 publicatbn 163:24; 164:12 publications 104:2; 119:20;156:8,14 publicity 43:17 publicize 74:12; 103:20, 23,23; 116:3 publish 103:23; 104:3,4; 125:22; 136:13; 142:1; 156:15; 158:20 published 125:12,17, 19;126:1;132:21;133:13; 136:121-167:9 publklhing 139:12; 140:19 pulmonary 16:25 purchased 27:14 purpose 59:15; 82:18; 104:13 pursue 10:11; 11:8; 15:5; 145:15 pursued 172:22 put 52:8, 25;69:15; 70:3, 8,17; 80:11;110:13; 111:2;119:20;123:9; 130:25; 133:23; 135:21; 143:17;144:9;167:8; 175:6; 178:2; 185:17,22; 193:7;196:25;211:12; 227:8 puts 48:22 putting75:16;87:4; 96:20;1533;196:17; W 4 224:1 r,} ru ro qualms 113:22;115i11, 12,20 quantifiers 87:5 question's 114:24 quibble 158:19 quick 106:25; 107:2 quickly 120:15;144:4; 171:21 quite 3114; 60:25; 86:11 quote 49:9; 54:1; 69:2; 71:21, 23; 73:8;111:6; 194:18 quoted 65:1 quotes 110:13;111:2 R R 38:25; 47:21; 122:4 R-e-e-n-t-s•ma 99:15 R.J 11:9; 20:11,11; Esquire Deposition Services Min•U-Scr9pft (13) philosophy • R,
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Richard J. Marcotulllo October 30, 1998 smoked 11:25; 17:7; 27:16, 20; 28:11; 86:15. smoker 50;4,15;103:14 smokers 49:10; 50;10; 51:13,19; 52:9,14,15; 59:1; 64:8, 20; 65:6, 22; 66:21; 67:11; 79:8; 81:10; 86:2; 87:11,12,16; 88:12, 24;103:16;129:2;130:1; 169:10;171:24,25;172:1; 195:23 smoking 12:13; 13:5,9, 13,16,24;14:11,16,17, 22; 15:1,7,19; 16:15,24; 17:1,18,19;18:22; 27:3, 4,6,8,16;28:8,14,16,18, 23; 29:24; 30:16; 31:10, 20, 22; 32:22; 43:16; 46:1, 2, 6, 9,11,14,15; 49:9, 23; 50:1, 2, 6,16, 25; 51:10; 52:6,15; 59:8; 63:21; 64:7; 65:15;66:1,2;713,6;9, 10, 25; 72:16,19; 73:13, 19; 76:8; 77:1; 78:4,18; 80:13,19, 22; 81:17; 83:12, 21, 22; 85:15; 86:1, 7, 8,14,16; 87:9,12,15, 16; 89:12; 90:3, 5,14,15; 103:16,18; 107:9; 122:6; 127:13; 130:7, 10; 131:17; 134:3, 5, 6, 23;135:1,19; 136:9,10,14,14;139:1; 161:5;163:2;169:2, 3, 6, 6;168:5,11, 23, 25;172:2, 8, 23;177c20;190:5, 8, 21; 191:14; 194:18,24; 195:16; 196:2,16,21; 197: 1; 198:14; 214:2; 225:18,19,24 smoking-related 63:17; 80:1; 83:14; 86:24; 88:5 smoother 27:25 Social 41:24; 45:5, 21, 25; 46:2,19,20; 49:6,8,9, 14,15,16, 21, 23; 50:5, 24; 51:1, 2,11, 20; 52:18; 53:4, 5, 25; 54:7; 59:8; 61:20; 64:5; 65:20; 68:4, 16; 69:2, 8, 9,12,15, 20, 24, 24; 70;9,14; 71:3, 6, 7; 72:1, 2, 7, "12; 73:13, 22; 76:15; 77:9; 78:3,19; 79:1, 23; 81:3,13; 82:20; 83:7, 24; 84:17; 85:12; 87:16; 89:12; 92:17; 97:17, 20, 21; 100:11, 24;124:7, 8, 9, ,22;131:15;134:4;135:22, 22;136:11;138:6, 7; 139: 1; 140:14, 20, 24; 141:8,13; 142:2,13; 147:12,13; 154:21; 155:7, 15;157:3;158:12,14,17, 25;162:7;164:4, 5; 166:20;167:5;169:21; 172:7;192:10,11;193:10, 24; 195:20; 198:8 , 9; 200:20; 201:5; 202:8; 206:4; 209:4; 214:1; 218:7; 2 20:4; 2 29:2 5, 25 socially 172:4 socletal73:4, 18, 21 societies 74:14 soc iety 51:1; 67:3; 72:13, 15, 21; 73:8; 74:5, 7, 23; 75:25; 76:4; 90:5,16; 163:2; 164:2; 194:18,24; 195:16;196:21; 222:11; 224:19 sociologist 169:22 sold 18:12; 220:24 somebody 62:2; 71:12, 14; 72:3, 4; 82:6;132:21; 162:14; 193:17; 225:9 somehow 83:12; 191:11 someone 58:4; 64:13; 67:2; 84:3; 94:18; 95:4,11; 106:19;122:3,10;131:13; 176:11;196:6 Something 12:4,9; 15:15,16, 23, 25;16:2,10; 34:15; 50:2; 51:23; 55:12; 65:18; 66:14; 67:2; 71:11; 81:8; 82:10,11; 95:1; 103:5; 109:18,20;116:22; 117:16, 24;129:8,15,17; 131:23,24;133:15; 140:21; 141:16; 143:9 , 12; 156:12; 158:24; 163:7; 168:9; 169:6; 173:19; 179:6;196:19;201:14; 206:23;209:11;213:10 sometime 8:19;14:3; 20:15; 48:24; 49:1; 76:10 so metimes 71:13; 75:18; 226:20, 20 somewhat 96:19;149:7; 187:25;196:24 somewhere 48:25; 190:21;206:14 sooner 129:3 sore 16:9 sorry 20:24; 32:14; 36:11; 46:5; 89:21; 92:6; 102:10; 120:5; 131:21; 133:3;154:5;155:8; 164:23;172:18;177:15; 187:9;201:24;215`3 so rt 23:6; 34:15; 40:4; 44:1; 48:16, 20; 49:17; 50:19; 68:22; 97:18; 184:3;187:20;192:18; 206:11 sound 69:19 sounds 32:18 sour0e 72:19;116:13; 146:12 speak 53:13;151:3, 25; 178:8; 228;17 speaking 14:15; 60:9, 23; 151:22; 210:4 speaks 145:23; 162:24 special 68:16; 76:15; 163:7; 218:2 specialty 31:7 specific 15:14,22;16:11, 12, 20, 20; 40:4; 41:15; 74:17; 75:22; 77:4; 80:7; Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris 95:14; 131:10; 148:11; 149:8, 8; 154:16; 156:5; 170:23;176:20;183:5; 186:3; 202:12; 204:18; 215:20; 227:24 specifically 14:14; 62:14; 68:8; 70:19; 75:6, 10; 95:13;113:15;126:5; 130:19; 140:18; 142:4; 143:4, 7;144:24;145:6; 156:11,17; 163:23; 166:11;167:3,12;170:2; 172:20;180:2,15;184:18; 185:24; 209:8; 217:2; 220:22;230:2,3 specifics 67:5; 87:24; 103:9; 111:17; 129:21; 132:8; 178:9; 182:25 speculate 191:21 speculating 149:7 speculation 82:22; 106:11; 131:7; 148:8; 190:24;191:19;208:11 speech 137:13;151:11 speeches 151:23, 25 spell 32:16; 39:8 spelled 56:1 spent 72:20 spoke 143:1; 209:4 spoken 143:2 spokesperson 104:8 sponser 108:8 sponsor 108:16; 110:14, 25; 111:6; 113:20,24; 114:7;115:14, 25;116:3, 11, 14; 118:15 sponsored 118:20; 170:6 sponsoring 110:17; 113:2;114:4;116:10; 118:20 sponsorship 111:20•, 112:1, 2, 8, 20;113:8; 115:12,16; 116:18,19 Sporadically 45:19 Spring 213:20 St 10:3; 183:15 Stability 56:8 staff 106:20; 200:19; 201:10 stage 43:6 stake 55:24; 56:11; 57:22, 23; 58:10 stand 44:19; 93:9 standpoint 29:5 Stands 191:25 stapled 162:5 start 9:19; 12:2; 19:23; 22:12; 40:6; 97:15; 115:19; 138:23 started 12:3;13:8;19:18; 22:10; 28:12; 37:11,13; 40:11,12; 42:12; 86:22; 155:4; 171:2; 216:7; 219:10 starting 55:22; 204:21 starts 55:11;70:11; 154:10 state 7:10; 10:7,21; 35:20; 49:13; 68:25; 77:14,16; 83:1; 85:5; 117:7;150:23;175:19; 176:19; 216:8, 9,10,17; 217:5,18; 219:18; 224:7; 227:3; 231:16 stated 43:13; 79:4; 135:13; 189:18; 191:5; 200:111,201:2 statement 13:19; 29:15; 43:15; 54:8; 68:12; 69:4; 84:13; 85:13; 97:11; 125:7;128:1;130:18;"" 152:5,25;167:23;190:20; 191:14,15,16; 205:8 statements 29:6; 31:21; 125:8; 190:14 States 20:6; 27:14; 42:25; 56:7; 59:3; 95:15; 98:24; 100:22; 101:2,5;110:24; 125:9; 126:5; 139:10; 145:9;160:11;168:3; 175:12; 177:24; 188:20; 191:10,12; 192:21; 198: 10; 200:22; 214:23; 215:2,6;221:20,25; 225:17; 226:4; 229:21 stating 108:14; 186:6 stations 209:5 statistical 31:2,7 statistics 127:6,11,12; 128:22; 129:22; 131:17; 133:11 steering 107:21; 117:15, 21 step 91:8 stlll 11:24; 45:17;108:8; 110:24; 126:9; 154:2,24; 167:18,18;179:9;185:4; 201:18; 204:23; 205:22; 206:1; 208:5; 209:20; 219:11 stop 17:22; 27:2; 28:8, 14;83:12;i51:16 stopped 17:17,19; 27:4 storage 184:20 stored 182:21; 185:23 stories 184:10 storing 184:14 strategic 89:13; 167:14 strategies 92:13, 25; 170:18 strategy 93:23 Strewn 216:1 streamline 26:16 Street 54:5; 58:17; 59:12, 17;61:10;95:12 strike 110:2; 114:8,20; 161:19 striking 140:1 string 137:10 strong 84:11; 139:11; 145:1 stronger 62:22~65:4 structure 25:14, 21; 187:19 struggiing 133:19 studies 10:3, 4; 31;2, 4, 12,13; 32:11;122:11; , 130:4 study 10:11; 30:11; 31:9, 14; 32:5, 7;198:9 stu}1138:22; 206:3; 209:25 style 110:23 subcommittee 98:15; 100:5 subcommittees 41:22 subject 24:8; 35:15; .;, 53:25; 61:20; 78:3;162:17 subjected 191:9 submit 165:12 submitted 33:20, 20; 34:2 subpoena 8:17, 22; 9:6; 228:5, 9 subsidiaries 20:11; 21:2; 22:22 subsidiary 20:21 subsidy 80:22 substance 17:10;18:12; 224:23 substances 18:1 substantlw 33:10 subsuppllers 73:2 - suburb 9:22 Sue 50:18 ~ ... suggest 18:19; 131:24; 133:10; 211:11 ro suggested88:23; ' 150:15;175:24; 211:14 W suggestion 171:23 , suggestbn:79:17; 105:25 suited 94:22 summarize 31:21 summarized 31:19; 32:2 summarizing 78:18; r. 79:4; 82:6; 199:21 summary 82:19; 120:17; 159:13; 160:7; 163:22; 199:19; 201:15 superb 169:19 supervisor 19:20; 21:24; 22:2 supplement 167:15; 223:14;225:11 supplements 222:15, 16; 223:1; 224:2; 225:2; 226:14,24;229:9 ., support 113:25 supported 132:22 supportive 129:15 supports 109:5 supposed 105:18 supposedly65:15 _ ~~} ~n smoked - supposedly (] 6) M9n-U-Script® Esqulre Deposition Services
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Rlchard J. Marcotulllo Iron Workers Local Union No. 17 Insurance v. October 30, 1998 Ph11ip Morrls. 112:19;120:13;125:25; 130:16;132:21;161:1; • 170:14; 174:23; 177:8; 178:10, 11; 181:19; 194:15; 195:12; 198:25; 201:2; 221:9; 226:23; 228:15 leaving 26:13; 188:11 left 9:8; 11:6,7,14; 154:19; 204:22; 206:20; 208:23 legal 10:4, 25; 25:14; 35:24; 36:2; 79:8,16; 174:1, 5,16, 23. 25; 175:14,23;176:9,21; 177:20;179:14,17;185:1, 3, 9,15,17, 20, 21;186:1; 191:6;228:8,21 legible 166:2 leglsiation 79:9,16; 81:15; 93:24 leglslative 216:18, 22, 23;217:15 legitlmate 44:9 lend 203:15 lengthy 30:11 less 27:20; 46:8; 51:15; 52:11; 56:13; 81:20; 197:4; 206:9 letter 202:24 letting 62:23; 65:4 level 105:11 levels 25:2; 45:25 leverage 24:8 Ilability 175:11; 186:6, 15; 189:18,20, 23;190:9; 191:6, 9 library 122:8, 9; 206:11 Iicensed 10:5 lieutenant 10:19 IMe 96:5; 97:2 lifestyle 15:1; 29:10; 50:3; 103:17 lihlstyles 64:15 Ilght 21:14; 36:12; 71:14 lighter 28:7 likely 83:7; 202:5 limitatlons 169:9 line 110:14; 185:8; 230:4 lingered 28:11 linking 78:18;90:3,14 list 55:18; 59:17; 61:23; 162:23;165:2 listed 29:22; 54:7; 74:20; 76:6;107:21;162:19; 163:21; 165:18 listened 151:4 listing 148:5 Iheral 112:22 literally 22:23; 23:6 literature 30:16; 31:19; 32:3, 5; 78:4; 79:10; 82:20; 224:19;226:19;227:9 iitigation 33:21; 35:14; 36:16; 81:15; 228:18 Iittle 9:20; 24:13; 27:20; 46:18; 48:10; 49:4, 5; 59:9; 67:17; 70:15; 73:11; 123:23; 141:17; 144:10; 194:25; 212:1 INed 183:11 living 184:6 lobbying 53:12; 217:4 Loca17:18;10:21; 189:20;216:8,9,10,17, 24; 217:5,18 located 180:6;181:13, 17; 184:1,2, 5; 204:14,15, 16, 25; 208:18 location 21:19, 22;181:6; 182:4, 25;183:4, 24; 205:13,20; 207:24 locations 182:11 logic 89:2;135:17,18,18 London 19:15; 21:19; 23:23; 24:1; 118:10; 120:22;181:1;182:12, 25; 183:2, 3,11, 20;184:3, 3, 6;204:16;205:1,2,3,12, 18; 207:6,17; 208:20 long 10:23;11:24; 31:3; 95:16; 99:23; 145:4; 206:6; 217:24 longer25:22 look 37:8; 41:4; 50:11; 59:6; 61:18; 65:1; 67:22; 106:24;112:5;118:5; 126:20; 128:4,9;129:1; 130:6,10,15; 132:10,14; 133:7,11, 22;136:8; 138:15;144:3,15,16; 153:11; 157:1; 159:1; 162:15; 169:17; 196:19; 208:10;214:13,16; 215:17 looked 128:21;134:23; 136:8 looking 31:2; 51:17; 57:21; 72:12; 75:12; 128:23;130,12,17; 133:24;178:20;203:7; 208:7 Looks 68:3; 101:13; 119:10; 165:24; 197:20, 24; 199:5,6 Lorlard 39:22 Los 7:1 lose 112:15, 25 losses 63:24 lot 23:10; 29:25; 43:7; 62:14; 70:9; 71:18; 77:20; 84:2; 97:7;130:19;143:3; 196:17 low•nicotine 28:1, 4; 94:19; 95:6 low-tar 28:1, 4; 94:19; 95:6 lower 94:12 lowering 94:8 lunch 97:12,13 lung 16:15; 30:17; 31:10; 52:15; 190:21; 221:17, 21; 225:19 marketing 214:23; 219:23 Marshall 156:2, 6 Mary 50:18; 98:1, 2,13; 153:20,24; 177:3, 10; 178:6;181:10;187;11; 188:4, 5,11 Mason 163:15 mass 104:1 material 159:13; 199:19; 203:7, 21 materials 144:9,18; 145:5; 160:7; 180:13; 193:7; 224:9 matter 35:15; 36:15; 54:21; 121:24; 162:18;. 190:4; 196:2 matters 11:5;35:14; 228:18 may 15:2;19:14,14; 23:11; 30:10; 35:21; 37:10; 38:20; 40:22; 42:3; 46:5, 5; 49:13; 50:2, 2; 51:21; 53:22; 55:13; 56:14; 57:24; 61:12; 62:21, 22; 63:2, 3; 65:3; 66:16; 70:19;73:14; 83:7; 84:1, 3; 92:3; 96:16; 98:19; 109:12;116:4;118:10; 120:15, 22;122:23; 130:22, 22;131 c8;134:17; 136:3; 139:24; 140:3; 141:23;143:2;145:13;. 152:16,18; 156:22; 159:21; 162:1; 166:10; 167:15; 168:22; 175:13; 183:9;185:5;191:9; 193:5; 198:23; 200:7; 201:14; 202:12; 223:3, 5; 224:2; 225:2; 227:3 maybe 14:22; 15:17; 16:2,9; 52:11; 61:3; 91:19; 103:24; 131:16; 133:10; 140:6;144:15;146:24; 149:23; 182:18; 206:18; 209:13; 217:25; 228:19 Maytly 213:1, 2 McKim 228:11,11 mean 28:21; 41:17; 54:8; 60:20; 70:24; 71:9, 9; 94:7; 96:7; 97:3, 7;111:17; 119:15; 120:3; 122:2; 128:16;129:16;136:6; 146:11;155:11,12; 156:21; 158:5; 181:22; 189:5, 8;192:6; 224:10; 225:5; 227:22 meaning 125:10; 173:6; 196:12 means 65:5, 6; 71:25; 79:9,16, 25; 83:20; 88:5; 97:6;116:21;126:24; 145:11, 25 meant 23:8; 57:23; 86:11; 226:21 medical 30:16; 3i:19; 32:3; 51:19; 52:1, 6, 22; 56:12,14; 57:4,13; 58:25; 63:23; 64:7,19; 65:14, 21; 79:13; 80:1; 81:9; 86:24; 87:11,18; 88:5,12,13; 90:13;91:12;130:8,d1;' 131:3.18;133:12;196:25; 222:24; 223:25; 226:18, 23; 227:9; 229:8 medk:alcost-control 56:9 medk:aUscientlfic 90:2 Medicare 52:23 medicine 108:22 Medinger 122:15 meeting 68:5; 71:14; 76:20; 109:24; 118:10,16, 22, 23;120:21, 24;121:3; 142:20; 143:3,23; 153:13, 17;157:4;177:3,10; 186:5, 22;199:12,17,18; 200:1, 2,17; 208:6; 213:20 meetings 8:10; 32:25; 38:21; 40:9; 68:7,10; 75:5; 97:17;101:10,10;118:19, 24, 25;119:3, 119:3,6; 1143:24;148:16;149:2, 6; 157:19;175:24;176:9,11; 180:23; 182:7 member 18:20; 38:22; 42:2, 5; 99:4,14;104:14; 180:4; 208:13; 219:4,11 members 38:11; 56:13; 92:24; 99:19, 21;100:21; 105:7; 118:23; 145:11, 11; 154:11;158:5;162:8; '- M M 38:25; 39:5 M-a-y-f-I-y 213:2 Macro-Economics 213:12, 24 main 63:18 mainly 118:19; 212:1 maintain 190:9 maintained 186:8; 189:19,24;202:18 maintaining 33:13; 122:7; 184:19 major 46:10; 146:12; 177:91.186:21; 201:1; 218:17 makes 66:12;133:6 makeup 143:21 making 51:10; 81:7; 114:19;137:13;149:16; 152:5;168:4;186:3 management 26:14; 123:1;154:7; 219:23 • manager 10:21; 216:9, 10 mandate 46:10; 104:8 manner 143:17 Manor 10:2 manual 139:7; 140:20; 141:20,23;142:8;154:25; 163:5 manufacture 85:8; 89:15, 24; 90:12; 220:7, 16,20 manufacturer 126:10 manufacturer's 100:13, 19, 23;105:7 manufacturers 79:8, 24; 88:4;119:24 many 22:8; 23:2; 27:13, 19; 39:25; 42:20; 50:3; 62:18; 73:1; 77:11; 86:14; 132:13; 159:18 March 138:6; 153:13 MARCOTULLIO 7:4,13; 34:21; 38:2; 40:18; 54:3; 55:11; 78:1; 97:15; 113:13;136:19;162:9; 214:20; 215:8, 24; 229:4; 231:9,19 marked 8:15,18; 33:3, 5; 37:7; 40:16; 53:17; 61:16; 67:20; 77:24; 78:2; 89:7; 98:7,10;106:22;118:3; 123:21, 24;138:3;153:9; 156:24;161:23;166:13; 171:11,13;176:22; 186:17,19;192:4;193:12, 14; 197:15,17; 199:7,9; 202:21;213:14,16 marker 50:2 market 56:22; 57:17; 169:16 176:10;192:23;193:2; 219:3, 8 membershlp 103:24; . 165:6 memo 59:10; 61:19; 62:11,18; 78:2; 89:11; 107:7; 109:21; 1109; 111:14,15,18;112:6, 7; 113:5,10;117:17;118:6; `~ 120:13;126:5;166:20; 171:14;172:24;173:22;: 177:8,14,17;195:2; 199:24;213:18 memoranda 54:14 memorandum 53:23; 177:9;207:25 memos 55:8; 162:16 menta114:18 mentloned 29:19; 37:22; 47:8; 51:12; 53:24; 70:12; 72:18; 73:24; 98:24; 99:22; 210:17 merging64:12 -- message 195:5 met 38:7; 142:17; 194:9; 90:9; 94:6; 117:23; 203:19;215:24 149:24; 189:12 method 217:1; 218:3; measures 92:22 223:17 media 66:14; 210:23; methods 147:23; 203:8; leavang -methods (10) Min-II-Scr3pt® Esquire Deposition Services •
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Iron Worxers Local Unlon NO. 17 Insurance v. Philip Morris Sure 8:2; 9:12; 13:19; 15:22; 19:4; 21:4,17; 22:4; 23:3; 24:4; 25:14; 26:20; 27:9; 29:2; 30;19, 21; 36:9; 41:20; 42:5, 6; 44:16; 54:24; 56:25; 57:14; 60:5; 62:4; 63:6; 72:10; 73:21; 74:9,17; 78:22; 79:18; 81:1; 84:14; 85:20; 86:11; 88:19; 90:23; 91:14; 92:1, 3; 96:18; 99:1;101:16, 22; 102:13; 104:19; 105:10; 106:6; 108:13; 109:3; 117:23; 121:6; 123:6; 125:2; 127:20; 128:18; 130:13;132:19;133:12, 25;142:121,145:24; 147:24;148:25;157:9,11, 13;1583;159:20;162:3; 164:18;171:22;181:21; 182:9,10, 22;183:10; 184:16;189:10,12;191:8; 200:7; 202:16,19; 209:16; 220:10 surface 145:13 surgeon 28:25; 29:13; 30:4, 8,15; 32:6; 221:16, 19, 24; 225:17, 23, 25; 226:3, 5, 9,10 sOrprise 42:17 surprised 190:12 survey 56:7 surveyed 30:15 surveys 31:2 suspiclon 195:11 auspIccious 75:18 Sustana 47:23, 24 SWAP 117:21 sway 66:14 sworn 7:5 symposlum 107:8; 108:8;112:20;113:3,12, 19, 23;116:6, 116:6,9; 3, 4,16, 20;118:16;198:14 symposlunrs 119:20 system 15:15; 179:15, 17,21; 180:13; 181:18; 184:25; 185:1,2,17,18, 19, 21, 22; 186:2; 203:16; 204:4 systematlc 185:19 T T-e-a-g-u-e 32:17 T u-1-1-y 207:21 talk 42:14; 46:18; 49:4; 51:24; 63:20;123:23; 130:15; 179:6; 183:2; 228:10 talked 94:24; 96:24; 159:5 talking 21:9; 29:7; 59:21; 70:11;72:2;122:19; 127:12;139:3, 5;143:1; 159:20;163:4;1713; 174:14; 193:8; 229:4 talks 88:21; 106:7; 140:14; 154:23; 155:18, 21; 202;5; 203:11 tank 140:14 tar 94:8,12 targeted 108:8;113:19 targets 44:13 tariff 207:15; 217:15 taste 17:7; 28:6,7 tastes 94:23 tasting 27:25 tax 53:9; 62:24; 63:4; 65:8; 67:1; 72:19, 20; 79:16,19, 24; 80:8; 81:7; 171:24; 207:2, 15 taxation 19:8; 67:1; 217:14 taxes 53:16; 65:12,14; 67:10;81:14,14 teaching 170:1 Teague 32:13,15 team 162c8 tecum 8;18 teenager 12:3;13:9 tells 170:4 ten 10:24; 24:21; 93:13; 208:8; 216:5; 217:12 tentatively 196:9 term 52:8; 72:11; 84:9; 92:16; 201:6, 7 terms 15:20;17:2,14; 63:7; 75:12; 81:5; 86:4; 87:4, 21, 25; 221:15; 224:3 test 173:19 tested 173:7 testified 7:6; 67:17; 212:3 testimony 15:10; 19:24; 69:13;141:11;146:22, 22; 147:2;149:16;231:13 testing 173:2,10,13,16; 203:8 tests 173:22 Texas 33:17 texts 139:25 Thanks 157:16 themselves 29:19; 208:19 theorists 170:8 thereafter 10:20; 24:9 therefore 44:23;62:20; 63:9;86:5; 112:1; 172:2 they'd 174:9 They'll 35:5 they're 29:5; 47:17,19; 55:3; 71:11,14; 79:20; 126:9; 165:25; 222:23 thlnking 47:16; 55:12; 77:18; 206:15; 230:4 thlyd 73:25; 92:4, 8; 101:17; 110:14; 130:5; 139:9, 9;155:3;179:12 thlyd-party 64:9; 66:22; 88:13 Thompson 156:2,6 though 64:18;72:11; 80:10; 93:9; 130:14; 136:2; 168:16; 175:10; 185:5,13; 191:5,8; 218:22;229:14 thought 14:13; 15:19; 17:1,14; 28:21; 82:11; 153:3; 172:15; 185:14; 197:12; 206:21; 213:8 thoughtful 153:5 thousand 136:7, 9 th reat 75:23; 76:4; 77:10; 189:21 threaten 91:7 threatening 44:24 three 10:18; 24:13; 37:23; 97:8; 126:20; 127:23; 128:3, 8,10,15;130:15, 16; 183:13; 188:22 three-story 184:12 threw 86:10 throat 16,9 throughout 124:13 throw 192:6 thus 90:4 till 11:12; 23:2 times 101:9; 124:24,25; 175:10 thle 21:25; 22:5; 47:25; 82:23; 161:2; 194:17,21; 195:1, 8;196:10, 22, 24; 207:10,18; 216:4 titled 41:9 Tobacco 11:9, 11; 17:9; 22:4; 24:11; 25:16; 26:5; 36:23, 23; 38:7,10,16; 39:13,17; 42:17; 44:18; 47:1, 4,10; 48:12; 49:10; 52:24; 53:16; 65:5; 72:24; 73:9; 75:15,16; 76:3t 81:4, 13; 88:11, 23; 91:1, 10,18; 92:23, 23; 98:23; 99:8,10, 16;100:1;101:2,9; 103:25; 105:3,4,23,25; 106:4; 110:17; 111:21; 113:1, 25, 25;115:15; 116:18; 119:13; 121:10, 17; 122:5,6, 20;123:7; 125:18;126:11,14,17; 130:24,25;140:17; 146:13; 147:25; 148:1,15, 24;149:5;150:2;158:4, 7t 169:7; 172:12; 180:19; 183:7,19;186:7;188:9, 22;193:9, 21;194:3,12; 195:12, 22;196:1; 204:13, 23; 7A6:2, 22; 207:6,16; 208:19, 22; 209:15; 210:11,22;211:1,13; 212:20; 214:21,25; 215:1, 4.5,11,15; 229:22 Tobacco-related 213:13,24 today 7:20; 8:4; 9:16; 33:23; 161:17,21; 220:2 Today's 170:5 tUcnara J. -MaY`caTrn118- October 30, 1998 together 23:16; 42:14; 229:15 44:5, 6, 23; 45:2; 48:23; Tucker 47:5,6; 53:24; 115:3;147:16,18;193:7 59:10; 107:8; 117:18; told 25:19, 24 118:9;121:6,16,17; Tollison 157:19; 158:13; 177:5; 178:12,23; 193:16; 163:12,14;164:15; 209:4, 199:11, 22 12; 210:6,14; 212:5 Tucker's 178:4; 179:3,4 Tollison's 164:11 Tully 207:21; 208:4 ToIlisonlWagner 163:21 turn 56:3; 154:20 Tom 228:11 twice 86:20; 87:5, 5, 8, 9 took 9:9; 24:3; 25:11, 23; two 17:20; 28:11; 47:16; 26:10; 48:1; 51:14;116:6; 62:3; 89:22; 99:23; 187:23;198:23; 206:10; 127:23;130:16;141:20; 210:10; 225:18 165:22, 25;173:23;179:5; top 65:2; 95:16; 98:13 181:7; 183:9, 11; 184:10, top-level 65:3 13;187:19;201:4;203:20; topic 54c9;136:4;142:21; 223:11 143:15, 20;148:11; two-page 166:18 154:21;165:18;169:1; type 28:20; 31:8; 48:23; 175:11 70:14; 75:13;180:21; topk:al 202:17 211:6; 212:25; 217:18; topka 131:1; 133:16; 218:21 141:16;149:3;158:9,10; typed 178:20; 179:3 r_q 199:25; 202:5; 212:17 types 66:12;180:17; ~ total 63:16;134:16,16; 217:11 .! 198 200 8 3 r" : : ; totally 105:14; 141:6 9; typographloal140:6. , Cd 150:16 151:9 ; toward 32:4;131:1, 20; U n~ [r. 212:17 towards 120:12;223:14 trade 19:7; 44:12;104:15; 217:13; 218:15; 219:4; 220:12; 223:8; 229:7 trademarks 27:13 transactlon 91:15 transcript 157:12; 231:11 transferred 19:15; 24:1 transformation 48:16 transilion 123:5 treated 52:17 treating 51:19; 83:22; 86:15 trial 137:3 trouble 128:9 troubled 14:16;127:3,6, 15, 25;128:5,16, 20; 129:7;130:7 True 9:19; 12:14; 13:7, 16; 43:22; 64:3; 74:3; 75:11; 77:12;195:17; 231:14 try 21:5,13; 40:18; 42:20; 49:15; 69:25; 104:25; 109:16; 129:20; 133:5; 146:16,19;176:24; 198:16; 212:2 trying 15:21;31:25; 38:13; 4423; 64:13,13; 69:21;76:1;77:16;84:21; 87:3; 103:2,6,12;105:17; 111:1;121:4;132:14; 137:8;147:17;163:9t 195:6;196:19;198:17; 205:7,16; 214:9; 216:21; U.K 99: 18; 106:2; 173:23; 180:7, 8, 11 U.S 10:18; 99:24;101:3; 121:9;168:24;169:1,16; 172:21; 175:17; 186:6,9; 15;189:15,18, 189:15,18.210:11; 230:2, 3, 4 U.S.-based 38:10 U.S.A 20:9; 27:11,13; 36:23; 47:1;121,2;169:7; 188:22;195:22;196:1 ultimate 89:14 ultimately 26:21; 194:16 umbrella 219:16 unclear 60:8;110:25 under 42:25; 45:3; 46:20; 52:25; 97:19; 120:2; 125:9,19;138:13;139:10; 141:19;163:7;180:18; 185:8;198:13; 201:22; 205:9; 226:8; 228:15; 231:10 undergraduate 10:3 underlined 185:8 underlying 86:6 understood 15:6; 30:14; 43:10,11; 46:13; 49:13; 51:9; 57:12,15; 58:21, 22; 64:5,18; 80:21; 82:17; 83:9; 85:11,.14; 87:20, 24; 225:16 undertook 103:1 uneasy 192:22;193:1 unfair 66:25; 220:24 unfortunately 101:19; 197:18 Esquire Deposition Services Min-II-Scripft (17) Sure - unfortunatetl
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • 5 6 7 8 9 • 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 • 18 " 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 questions on it. MR. SIEGLER: Let me take a quick break to hand this off. (Discussion off the record.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Handing you what's Exhibit 9, it's an October 31st, 1979 memo from yourself to Charles A. Tucker regarding an international symposium on public smoking. Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Now, it refers to a gentleman named Don Hoel. How do you -- A Don Hoel. Q H-o-e-l. And he was a lawyer for Shook, Hardy & Bacon. A That's correct. Q Was he R.J.R.'s lawyer? A No. I believe he was primarily counsel on behalf of Philip Morris. Q Okay. And he apparently was on the steering committee with other individuals listed on this document; correct? A That's correct. Q And Julian Doyle was the executive secretary of ICOSI at some point in time; correct? 0 1 1071
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• 0 • • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 0 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 24 25 not ICOSI? A Well, primarily the only real active organizations would either be the individual tobacco companies or the National Tobacco Association. Q Right. That's I think what I just asked. In other words, this would be a campaign carried out by the members of ICOSI or National Manufacturer's -- the MNA's; correct? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. THE WITNESS: I'm not sure it ever rose to the level of a campaign. Again, these are early -- from. what I can see here, these are just early discussions of objectives. Whether or not any of these came to fruition is a totally different -- BY MR. WITHEY: Q We're going to get to how it came to fruition. Believe me. I'm just trying to figure out who was going to -- who was supposed to carry these plans out. And it's not ICOSI, and it's not SAWP in its own name. It was the organizations that belong to that group -- A This would be -- well, the ones that belonged to it would be the tobacco companies, and the only other entities that would take action on any suggestions would be the tobacco associations.
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0 0 a ~ 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 0 24 25 0 consultants for the tobacco industry? MR. HOWARD: Objection to form.. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you recall any discussions of that protocol? A I don't recall that type of a discussion, no. Q I take it then that, as far as you know, neither ICOSI, SAWP, INFOTAB had any policy, particularly one that was not in writing, that would suggest or require that a consultant working for them, with them, should, when being put out in the public, indicate that they were consultants with a tobacco company. You had no policy that suggested that that should happen; is that correct? A Well, I think there perhaps is a more relevant point, and that is that I don't recall in the ICOSI and INFOTAB context that there would be that public dimension role of anyone that provided any work for them. So I don't think that issue ever would have come up. Q Okay. That's because it wasn't a public organization the way that we discussed it. A That's correct. Q All right. But I think I'm asking a 211
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0 0 i i 0 0 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 • • 21 22 23 24 25 little bit different question. But mainly because the question wasn't clear, let me try it again. You've already testified that, and there's documents, that George Berman, Wagner, ui , Tollison, the others received funds from either ICOSI LD J fq or -- yeah, ICOSI or INFOTAB for doing the work that W m you were paying them to do; correct? t A Certainly they were providing services. Q They were working in conjunction with the work that was going on. And the question I have is were they asked to sign any document, or were they provided any policy that said, in essence, you are now being paid by this group, whatever it was, ICOSI, let's say, INFOTAB, To the extent to which you represent yourself to the public in the positions that you have toward various topics, we would request that you identify the fact that you are being paid by -- not necessarily for the appearance, but paid as part of the work being done for the tobacco industry. MR. SIEGLER: Objection. No foundation. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Do you follow my point? A I follow your point. I don't recall that type of a discussion or a document. 0 1 212
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• 1 2 3 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 • 13 14 • 15 16 17 Ah 18 19 20 • 21 22 23 • 24 25 N the SAWP undertook, discrediting the anti's? A I'm trying to think of, since this was in September, 1979 -- when I got involved several months, later, my recollection of anything relating to something like discrediting the anti's is basically trying to provide additional information that would provide more balance to a one-sided approach by those who were opposed to the industry. And I don't recall specifics of it. I think, you know, for example, examples of intolerance, I think it basically -- I recall some discussions about trying to point out that some antismoking organizations basically could not understand -- seemed to be antagonistic to the smoker as well as to the industry and basically blaming the smokers for smoking and seeming to be intolerant of these people choosing certain lifestyle habits, including smoking. Q So the idea, as I understand it, then was to publicize that fact in order to affect public opinion? A Not ICOSI or INFOTAB. ICOSI or INFOTAB didn't really publish or publicize -- publicize in the sense of maybe sharing this with the membership or sharing it with national tobacco associations, yes, 103
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6 0 10 11 12 0 13 14 15 M 16 17 18 ~ 19 20 10 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 I0 A Same capacity as I always had. I was head of public affairs, public relations. Q And to the extent to which there was documents generated about the public speaking activities of, again, Professor Wagner and Dr. Tollison, would you generally have been provided those documents as part of your ongoing work at R.J.R. International? A Probably not, because I think that if those activities took place, they probably were done in the context of the U.S. tobacco environment, and again, that was not my area of responsibility. Q There's numerous documents in here discussing Wagner, Tollison, I think Freedlander -- A Feinhandler. Q Feinhandler -- George Berman. All of those names have been mentioned in a number of these documents; correct? A That's correct. Q Did you have any understanding that if those individuals were to appear on behalf of your organization or, let's say, the Tobacco Institute on, let's say, to be interviewed by the news media or in radio program, that they should represent or inform a the public that they have worked as or are working as. 210
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# 6 • ~ 10 11 12 0 4 0 f 13 14 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Now, were you aware of a, for want of a better word, a plan or a program by which consultants with INFOTAB, ICOSI -- for instance, Mr. Wagner and Tollison -- spoke about the social costs/cost benefit issues to newspaper editors or to radio stations over the airways? MR. SIEGLER: Objection. Vague. Compound. THE WITNESS: I'm not specifically aware of that, no, sir. BY MR. WITHEY: Q Was that something that was discussed, that those individuals -- Wagner, Tollison, perhaps others, maybe George Berman, for instance, the consultants -- I'm separating them from the people who actually worked for a tobacco company or ICOSI -- A Sure. Q -- would get out in the public arena their ideas that they had also presented to you? A I don't recall that being done. Q Were you still working in the public relations or public affairs at R.J.R. International in 1989? A In '89, yes. Q In what capacity were you working? Same stuff? 1P 1 209
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• 1 • 2 3 4 • • • • 17 • 18 19 20 • • Q Now, if we could look at Exhibit 14. This is a document bearing the date June 8th, 1981, related to INFOTAB social values/social costs project, minutes of the project meeting that, according to this, you attended. It's a four-page document obtained from R.J.R. MR. SIEGLER: Could I make a minor housekeeping observation? MR. WITHEY: Sure. MR. SIEGLER: I notice some of the exhibits are. double-sided. I want to make sure when the exhibits are copied to the deposition transcript, we want to make sure we get both sides. MR. WITHEY: Thank you. I've raised that with the court reporter. MR. SIEGLER: Thanks. BY MR. WITHEY: Q in this discussion it refers to the fact that "Meetings with Drs. Tollison and Wagner will be arranged to discuss their current situation." Do you see that, sir? A Yes, I do. Q And they were consultants to the -- 5 6 7 8 12 13 14 15 16 21 22 23 whatever the organization was, INFOTAB or SAWP; 24 correct? 25 157 •
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• • • • ~ 10 11 12 • • 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 0 • 21 22 23 24 25 A That's correct. Q Which company was he from? A He was not with a company. He was the retained administrator or the executive director, the head of ICOSI. Q Now, it indicates that "The identification of the international organization targeted as the symposium 'sponser' is still considered very confidential." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Which international organization were you referring to? A I'm not sure. I believe this is -- I don't know. I think obviously what this is stating is that there is a conference that was being planned, and it wasn't yet clear who was going to be the sponsor of it, which organization was going to -- Q But read down. It says, "The international organization ('i0') is a very well-known, well-respected organization headquartered in Geneva, active in health education, preventive medicine, et cetera." Do you see that? A Yes, I do. Q Do you know the name of that international organization, sir? 0 1 .108 .
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• 1 2 0 3 4 • 5 6 7 • 8 9 a 10 11 12 • 13 14 15 • 16 17 0 18 19 20 ~ 21 22 • 23 24 25 that what you said? MR. SIEGLER: That was not his testimony. (Record read.) BY MR. WITHEY: Q Who collected the information on the driving forces within the antismoking organizations? A To the best of my knowledge, much of that information, the analysis of antismoking forces, basically was known to a number of people who worked within the industry or might have been consultants to the industry. Some of the names have come up here, people who have observed social issues during their careers, social scientists, some of whom have contributed to the efforts of ICOSI. Q I'm asking would collected the information. Who gathered it, who brought it together was what I was trying to identify. A If indeed it was brought together, that would have been one of the information gathering and sharing functions of an organization like ICOSI. Q What was the process by which identifying who the driving forces were in these organizations? What methods of collections were used? A I'm not sure it's anything more complicated than national tobacco associations and
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Q Now, when you went to work at -- can we a 5 6 7 8 9 ~ 10 11 12 0 • 13 14 15 16 17 ` 18 19 20 i • 21 22 23 24 25 just use the word "Reynolds" to describe the company you worked for just for ease of -- R.J.R. Reynolds? A Sure. Q What was your first assignment, sir? A I was in charge of public affairs which was primarily government relations, trade issues, taxation, advertising issues. Q Where did you work? A I worked in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Q Did you work there the whole time? A I worked there from the time I joined the company up until May of 19 -- June of 1987, either May or June of '87. Then I was transferred to London and returned back to Winston-Salem in, I believe it was, November of '89. Q When you first started working at Reynolds, you were in public affairs. Who was your boss or supervisor? MR. COPENHAVER: Could we at least say Reynolds International? Is that too much to ask? I'd like to have a clean record and later on, as people start using testimony, the Defendant Reynolds. company he worked for isn't the 0 1 19

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