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RJ Reynolds

Antonio Cipollone V. Liggett Group, Inc. Transcript of Preceedings. Trial Testimony of Jeffrey Harris.

Date: 10 Feb 1988
Length: 95 pages
507811514-507811608
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Jones Day
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Harris, J.
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27 Feb 1998
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Minnesota
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19970311
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TRIAL TRANSCRIPT
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kfn14d00

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t N ~z IN TEtE ONITED BTAI'ES DIBTRICT CDQRT POR TAE DISTttICT OF NEW J6RSEY Civil Action ioo, e9•Z86t t6Al • m . ~ " ~ • . • ~ . . • 1f • 0 ft ft , : /ItITONIO CtrOi.LOf1t, iadi.iduallr, aaW as 'EsoCutor of the astat• t:~.~.a,~~ ~~ ~ of tos. D. Cipollont, ~ - = plaintlff ( r , . . . , ~. .~ ~.~ .. . • ' . . ! . . : LIOtiR1'!' QItOOP, M'.0 o 4 1ltwark, R.w Jors.Y B Delaware Co~r~oYatioaj HliLYP s hbruary 10, 1988 114RR i8, iNOD#tt OlUl4tD, a Ra~ ~~io~o •ir9inia Corporationj and I APTS LOGV'S TRCATRES, INC., a New York Corporation, : Det.ndants, e • • • 4W ~ • 40 MW • • • o. • w • BODD, LASliSR, GROS6, pICILLO. 80SEN81WK, GAEEtZBERG i iADEr ESQS., BY t KARC t. EDELL, 9500 Attorneys for the Plaintiff. MNOLD i PORTSR, E805. , SYs PEM R. aLCARLET, ES0., M T!lntYtAS E. SILPBN. s CSQ. Attorneys for the Defondant, Philip Morris. i HnNORABLE A. LEE SAAAKIt' OxIT6'fl STATES DI6TRICT JODCC APPBA RANC86o tersaaat to seation 793 Title !• Ooitoa ftatos Cods. . t1e follorin~ traosoript is osctilLoa to be an acahrato 'iooord as takon stanoaraZ6icaUx 1A the abamwontill•d ~ : ~~y t~ p~oottdiA9s. _! , 3 . i I affieial Corrt R.portoc • QAim itato• Distciat Courtl P.O. son 255810 NNwacR, !1w Jatsoy, 07101' ' w m ~ oD I-A PATLLtS '!. LbWIS, CSR i JOJWL'L !R. !lDUSTOlt, CSR
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i p I 4 6 7 A P P s A R A N C e 9 s ccont i Auedl vRC6pBIWa, Roi1R, aKIT®, 1tRVIM, DAVIS & tER08T8Iti. 86Qs.. RY t l1L111a s. 1iR11R, s6o.. ^ifld- wcmss s sraIPTia.o,. eaos.. ~Y e OONJILD J. CwN, eiQ. , JJU~6 RtAlUlel, l6Q.. !'RANCI6 DeCKtR, tOQ, JlttorAeys tor aelan"ot, L1jI9ett. . smoas & ooWNemr, saQs.. 1Y 1 RJIYMOND !. DROfAW8It, iiQ:. Attorneys for Dal.adant Philip Morris. STRYKER, TAM3 6 DILL, LSQB.. 8Y t BDITO R. PhYNb', E:6Q.. -and- t3H30R. 8ARDY 6 SAC4ti, N6Q$. , BYs 6T4YRN PARRIBRe tSQ., ROBERT S, WITKES?P, f.E:G. t pATRtClC !!. SIRRZDCE, ESQ. Attorneys for Dttandants, Philip ltorris and Loriliard. C PNYLLi6 T. LlVIR, C6R & JOAtdNE N. NOR76T0t:, CSR
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1 ! I 4 s i 12 13 :s 24 =S ,- ... (Afternoon .0s.ioft.1 "t ClaERIS All 6Ln. Oaty pre.entJ '!wI QwiTstlaa.' be «st.d. ` , t!F N t T • 11 1t N i tN r*ttss•a tbt Staad t !a C001tlI ltC. Rearnoy. CR0?S-67AKZ!t/1T10K CMIT+lURD eY lltt. KeAta1EY t 0 0r* aarris. I hsve located the doausnt deted AuqUac Z0. 1990 fros Kt. Qatista to Itr. •eidsetsttektr vitA attacMeacs. wa s th at th: Oocwent you ver. sef.t r i aq to tb is oar ni nq -- vlthdrawns t+et ire a.k you it yoa have ...n this doawer.t befor., and I believe lt'. "rkod llaiAtitV. e39hilut -- ; trial fshtbtt 444 -- NR. !OlLLI •«. O.:_..~ ~. r Y A llt~r Z ~atrs. . ~« ~. t aalt r.a it ye+u, "• "*a tAat' •xbiMit &sfoct your •.stL.e~qr .a ii aat •s.arwtiia ~ tl~t. a..t 0 "i t:qbe, so you a:. araro oi the faqt taat, aa.bet one, at' this coonfotance in Jutw of 1ls0, Nt. Natlsta who l• • ~N • re A t.Swr4. P. R. !._ JAANNQ K. AW mft. C03.9. c A . . , j : : ., : I i
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t. 1 a a 4 , S 7 • 9 10 11 12 13 14 2S is 1i 10 i• !0 3_ 23 l 24 25 Yarria • esoss 1651 researaber at Aou, .Mntiorwd the palladium nitcat* development to this group of scientists tMat 9ot .toq.tbac to !lisasss cessatab aseds pcatatory to the 1lt1 iwcgeen's . . ~ . ., . . . ots.tal /eport. •octostt . ..• AVbat it Mos say !s that tbey a.d 400 Or. Mab M it v" t n' ar. poM'e group that •t. Astista tr•s «w 0 ToY Mwr• tborR* A ies. It vas In 04. .eEaond aCtecaoon. 0 ?bank Youe h And tbsce va" a sntioa of a catalyst cigarette and soso discussion - W• !s tbs discussion en the ceoorde not a svpplsm.ntacy dlsaussion, but a discussion on the record at that date. - Q A. I correct •atista said or c.[errad to Or. x.anier's pre .antation of a paper at the 1lth Internationai Cancer Congress docisp the lali ot 1076? ~ Y.o. Q Uot at paP -- tbe ssooNd page of the Osbibite And tf+.t !a tliat pspa it was s.porte• that lrtbur .. f...Lltti• le eetreboratiaa with that pz•.r )ar• .ftwea•i+sd a .... .+ .-, Pot•typt ei9ar•ttu acceptable to aa iadeptadertt tasa Pnsit the el9.r.tte eoAtain. •.talyet and road.sat.. I Do you ceoali Vatista said that at that or.aiAqf A not .t that .eetina. /N arn look at the Wssos ALces I . abstract end ses what it said. ~ PRn.Lis !. Lw/fs. C.s.R. JomC N. OURTON # C. t. R. ; w
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I ~ 2 3 4 f 9 1 • S 11 12 13 14 23 ls 17 is f Marris • cross 101 Q'r'bis 1• tAen additional iatottiatioA that Ot. tatista sWpliqd to bp put into the transctipt of that ..etlaq, oot r.ott A t1o, be ditbotapply it' l. aaid .lt tlsbt there at the t 0 Attfr y.n beaa tAat, i!d you .a. aar ottott at that .~~ . . . tiaft to to and tiad Or. R.nslei•s prpec, that it was drlivotea two yoarr earlier at tbe i=tA interwtioaai Cancet OoAgtessT A As tar s• I teNV, at the tire tbar• was no avcb pepes. Onlr an ab.t ract vbiab is 1 iRe 100 wotds tbat would !it like the aise of a lellov paqe•s add that would hsve appeac.d in thW procwainqa. Q At the tise 616 you ge and [iad itZ 1l Mo. Th* best I can teweslNt• at. Orc11, who was the cbair.aA of this iwrited group was 1piA9 to assabl. .11 of the input. ev.rrtbtnq tbat svetyoae said tcer the different aoaross to pit together bts stattisy dratt it tb. lOll Moo.'s Maetal Mpott. .. , "d OK. Nak wws Q.iM to am0eo tbat iNt.r..tlon, .;. , . MA M teY ts t..e.tior as M.t as = s.a -0» tt .raa pin9 to be or. I..bI• so.p•aaibilitt• U aWhsdy r.dt a s.mrat : ,,• about a n.v ta.s that was out tbsto, 1re was going to put it tir10tbor in tbe QAaptet, and tbe Wat that Z oap toeail is that they are sh1luq# we have reduced i A this aigarettt tbe iRYt.LIS !. Laf It. C.6. R. i ,Tall~lila M. r00 ~W. C. 8.1l.
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------------------ i 2 i ~ I - 4 sar:is • eross 1653 twoi• in •ietm and ar. satista sald, i t,bi*At it's • ailestoao ti9ht eav a• tst •• tU.orlenloity !s ooAOOtnad. Aad eb.a the best that t oaa t..oabe r, Or. d.oh w s . . . ,. "ia0 to shoek it .ut, i aa irolria9 as tb.te it's Maud to YraMrDs t. . 4; 0 0o you recall a sttotoaa b1a9 made to the patent that oor.red the process at the aetind? A i know he a.ntioited it Oaoaate I have the tcansatipt, but 1 doa't reaos+berr bia saying it. Q Did you go to look tor the patent ? A No. 0 Oid yos ask for Aie to 9ive you a copy? A Ao. Q !he patent oontaina tDe tau2ta of biological tests dane up to the tfwa of the t ilinq, Aaaoly, the 21 a s.ti.s that you tslkod to the jury about? A'rbe actual tull patent .pplioatloe and the vtiteup of the pttoat, moAOdcapb as it's oalird, do.• actually vrAtain tWO of thM bioloti.al t.rt1.dt the l.toat abstiroote f0tiiah !. 41 t aav tre0 obr il00 lasw ot r.okia0 aad /ioalth •uliotia, ai• aet a.atloA rtslt14eal tostlad. p rat like the hr0es' artlole !e rtd it did a.r the wou.e skis esperlar.nts resulted !n a ts paewat to an 60 percent in aduetioa ooapatio9 palladiw to •- I A i Awe to loek at tbe brOsat article to ae• what it i 4
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_.`-__.~. ~-.~-------------------....~ I 2 S • s 6 I Rarris .0 oross 1Ka sai4. 0 okar* a Al best tt I QaA Ir.4NStento to •00 this 1/as ON 09 a ,- I great awb.r of slalss tmt p.opto ss4.. 8rn4c.4a ol "tents +r.r• all dee. all tbi tiss. :,. :t : ts..b.r. "at this vs. «ia' to ba .NYtbinq %p l0 11 12 13 14 1S 16 17 ,f a• i. :o that ea Mirta trom ArtUur 0. Litti• vas 10101 to Oi.• Or. Mch the bsok9rome intoraation. Att.r ali, the •srpaon OaAS=al is not 9oiat to asy tbis !• a aev dly olopatnt or o~nt On it just ltoa a oat.~t. It wants to look tor pror•rtvi.+rsd •alsntific 6sPxts, vbiah stans we send it to a foorAal, other scientists iook at it siY# this to cight, this is oron9 anA then it's poblisbe d. •y asd larp, 'rh.a the iMrpon a.uatal's eomritt.o Mant s to say not j Itst to Col lf Ct idmso but make a stat tWt iat .. .oa.tbist, they waat so.etbifts ia tbs p.dia. soi..tif ia •. . ` ltt.raa. tw . Mt.r•coriq+r ioocaal balot.. tb.r at• villi49 .. a ...s.R. ,. . ._ . .- Oart as t.u s.oall. Or. Moh Waa pist to all the lo..e strands .n4 ttr to pot it to,.tL.r. 0 lreu btata Ore daob aiso say at tbat tiM that be Ma&aaf knotom about the palla di.r der.loprtnt bsoh to 1078. ba cs use be ba4 r..A prssant when Or. s.arl.c yaoe bis tYil ptp6r e ~.~. ~.. ~ ® w • ft •r..fwrw r rMfmPfwf. P a O . , # l ~ , m 06 #-a
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t ( . i ? 3 4 , f 4 u 22 Iarrls • aroas not jost the abst raat at the bnoer Oonqr.sat a Repeat the queation. 1 as eqti sur• Or. Oaab Iwsv anything s"e than a pspa bad been 'Pt.s4t.d ia Ouesos Mr11. I u t:ot tovr att.otloa to the prqt labeled Oc AN2l1761v i!a! •o . iess or. Osebe I b.ar• sase et tbe rork t•prt.e iA soshos 11ita -- R With a question s.rk. I dan't aadarstand vbat the reporter -• hor the reportorr translated that but the aext question is that wanwcript •- ietarttnq to tbe prssenratton in Oosnos Aires -- is that sanusacipt is watisb,e, so !t oould be feterred to, quote4 in this doou.ent that we ace preparinq. Q Y N* it. 1ty que.t ion is e oid you bear that .aQbanqe where Or. Osab said be was present duciay the presentation? A ft. Moarss I don't 6uov what this osas la tAe lrasOrlfe. t san't P.rssually IrOs.bOr Ibis sarinq that, mt it !o s..sbere let's q.t tMe orlliftl P"r. ~ .0 1•, 0"ve V.N reeall Or. hstista urLnq, this is w.t r.t a ..uk.taai• pr.Orott but it to a Mrsising pr"etyoi ia 1!!0 at that o.nta.nos that roa attenaedt a Let' a ss., I don't rMSbb r AiR saY is9 tbat. MlLLr• s. L1r2a, c.t,R. t aoNlts /l. .ooisoN. c. a. R. I i . , i ~ . s : L .4 ,
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- - - - - - - - ~ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 2 3 4 I aa r rl s a. erosa 1es0 ~ SYt 1K ooula hava. twt"s sN. tio. •is stste.ent at the tlse, !t was his view, wlls this is sot yot asarketabl,o prodnet, but it ts a • .. . , , .. . ,:, prsstsfn9 frototyps. , . . , .., , Q•tb.. Osotor, as = oorreot that yor are oot et the view • . 7 ! . . that tM psllaaiue oigarttte pr+odusts anY tisics Ath.r tbao :,. . risks of luao aaaa.rl a. I oorroot! ' . A Vail, I would have to say risks of a.noer. Ciq.cett• .rwkt and oi9arett• smoking can orwe aaeera ot other prrts ' oi the body and lndividuals. And .any of the substances that luwe bs.o i.plio.t.d for cancer in the lwq could just as wsil apply to cancer of the volos bost for oxasAte. •anoe, Just to say it was only lmq osaotr, would odrreat. n~t be Oo the other hand, I would aoAtirie it rtqht sow to Q is aot.lisart di.es.., aot eiroslatotf pcobl..., Mt ~ ,: . . . . . . : :_ ~.r t os ata sst.Nyuy`tMst t" Slprotto aadresas or :.... y ~~ .v . ' lt.*u.os tMM sLsicat R A to tbe itda ot birta d.t.ots Mma At lhan .NPwiO p.iyoyaliaal hrdroarbons do istaaot otth the Naotto eatarlai ta iadividual eells and thoratore they ar• aaa.: awpiaton, aot Mtleite, but un0.r arspleios of o.inq • . a *n.ma r r ~awsu _ r__ t _ : _ : , < ~ r ~ .; . t
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l I a 3 watcls - aros• 1N1 7tobtoo* so sail• I wouldn't reach a soi.ntitioconalusioa that this cigarette will have any elt.at sa `irtb deteets. I voulan et sar ehat. i rool d sar that !i an 6160 that raa IL .. ~ a.le~raaeo 4.re. o . !ras s.,.. t.lwaaa l~ao.• . . .. ~. R .. 7 I Mear• 7owr direct •Xa.latloa. i Qldn't boar that It produe.• risks o! birth Mttets. ' Are you saying the palladitrr nitrate eiqarette. la r+.ur opl nios. woul d roduce ri ska of Oi rtb d.teot s! A tb, Z aouldn't toacA .n opiRioa like tiat. Q Thank you, Isn't It a lact, Osctot, that roo said roa saonot wata a tossal quantitative diteraiMtioa s the sndYctioa ot risk lro* tAe pali.aim aitrat. ei9arotte, bloous" tbat vould be stretching the iata that you bawe availa0l• to rouT !t ws. I said tt. Q isn•t It a tact, ooototo you said aotw sicia sosslta MolQ M s4slNiia77 . .r~ i f. It r s . ~ 1s.. t saiQ. io tavt M i fidnst aat 1 t oaavtly that j~ . . . ., . ~.` . . r • t M!d a.o.iva)lr tisl.aaall. . . 0 7Mat is, tbs s'.M atis s..+uts t.7ottoe poctaiabig to the Mlisdim aitrate ei7s=.tttt a Mo. ltatta ot taet* pou a.a.a ao tkat ia joneral. i said It was vell-understood in the •eleatittc so.rwsitr that s. a. laYLttt !. LlNta. C98644 t JoAlrllc !!. .onsM, Ck
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i a 3 4 S 4 7 a •arcls • eress 1tS• i! a suestaAa tsdvooa the risk of 446601 or iatenr.ntion •- adoo.a risk of manar in the soure skin t.sts. tt is .sawl.abi• that !t siaesdiAv. . • .~ : 4 llialesai/!9 iA tfrls !t its relevancy ts, the risk ot babtn 1m' CanQStf A . r lbank you. Aesd the reason tor tbst. Oootor, is# even you would aqres tb.rt are onaert.iati.s in t0e televancs ot soua skin paint inq dat,a, and the hu.a,n risk of lung canaec lAsA,'t tbat tigAt? A Ostroct. 0 Md you have tsst 1! t.d ab4st what -- rby that Mnoert.laty exists and vhat you have sald. Ooctor, t• that there at• ditt.resoes betvotA innrr species s.tabolisn. between the way s ostiie responds to sigarttte moke applied to its back and tAe aKtabollos in bmaA saokinq# i• that vbY there is oss ot tbs twsos of extrapolating ttva tre sesuits .c • .f-i a.ws skis sdsl osp+ri.ent to 1rauss? !.r Abis spsitio iNSO of oiv.rrtte tat. --- irt it is trw, io "Mrai, that s#ioe are pioq to hw• different s.tabolikm and ato sot pisq to baNUe sae.iails the •me way M"aAS at.. And tbsre ate oo.re ap.cial osses tbt way tb. .ows . ! . { : ,. . N A
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i. T I z s I S I .7 Baciis • orosd ltSi bandles the eb.ataal !s dilterent tban a Aman, and that is kaors+ rat go: th* esse of Qilarett, t.re bat c.rtain otbec syseiai a.a. ~hat !s oorreot. 0 Motbe= Oift.r.ne.-tbat result la ane.rtai*ACies ts •stt:polating ttom the s.saits -ot a rouw ospertriat to the .tt.cet .s a.rr ts ori.n distribstlis of tbe ai.nts, aoRrectt A.... A t.s. lbat !s oocreat. . Q Ilow, toll w what orOaR distribvtisn of the aoents is? 1~ An ossaple would be that t.A.r• is a substance which Qaass• t,ladder oanoet iA hnsenr. A eettain dye - It you work le a oettaio 0~•e tactory, and it you tive that seb.taaoe to a rate they will 9.t - it you q!Y• It to a doqo they w iil oet bladder esno.r, too. MA it you give It to a sat tk.tY riii Qut liver esna.t. fti11 caus.s v.nctc la awrass, dogs and rati but tb• aaosieai went to one Aiaos So one and one In another ds what seientlsts say ts. U It awss li.ei Maw=, in tat. It ass.u's s.aa it eawss liver o.mmer in i~ . . , •tr.as& tt•s a sign that sswa oasetr sAa the absieal . , wrld q* Ms plae. is tat• aua esmo oanett oi tko liver *Ad Qs to the blad0.c to hssans oa• Mgs, Marst ve ac. ali .umalse but we art dstiAittly dittoront. !ba'poi At b.inq that soest.noe wM..s oanaet in all sp.eios, but where It gets to !p the bmdye organ t.lhLSd :. ti.Ntli. C.l.lt. 4 aooaft N. eooa7roNO c. t. R.
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. ltrr ri s• o:oss l0i 0 d3stribstion, dos depend on the pNrtiaular aa.a1. p J1n eaaspiO of that .i9bt be w.tul to talk about. laat s• tbis tob.aoo specific aitrosaaiot. , . - . : •~. isa't lt• tsot that the tobacco Op.oitit ~ this i I 3 4 i• aet biolo9ioailr aet i.. i• t1N Maks of Bfa.. aas.lr. ~. - Mosn't result to "pllie.as and s.roiftsas M the bsots of 5 1 •io., but it boo Os.a tornd in aaioal Qsperl..ots to be site specific aatclao9en to an animal, Ma.lr, you apply it on tbe bscks •t aioer you a1 oht 4.t ltM oancec or kidney cancet, but Yov don't get any oanar* on the skin of tbe 8ouee6 to that aorractt A ri.r• is .o.. speoial aaeaio.ls that as.e in totaooo called nitrOsaliAes tMat actually e.we wAen the niootine ln the aiqar.tte s.oke i• aaanqed durinq Ooitln0 •a4 they baee caused cancer to labor.tory aaioals. and I can't rt.ewlor rbetLer it w apQll.d them to the htks of tb• •to., we don't '.t any skin aanoer, bat we only "t OsAQlt lnside tb. IMti.als. I a.s't rM"w1Mr lt. , . -:... . . 0-,;'all, rid ros.ob.r at lw.t tMidr lrst the l$tsratuce* lASZiwin9 tmt don by or. fetftss• states tbat , . ,~tt~s~lM,~• ~. ~troiiflorltiaOt~M 1 0 • M1t~~f~oi~f c .ateclao1io"is WO. Ms. .oa.17 • t'. atrai• I dsA't r..wrbrr that. 0 i.n't it a taat, dootorp that e,he tota earalaogentoity the sed.if mouse p.iatiA9 .odt18 to sot a wed laoQe !or the iA. ..fft.1f !. LWtr, CS joAmt M. •OOiTQM. C. s. ft.
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1 3 3 9 s 7 • 9 10 11 12 ~. 13 14 is is 17 is Marris • eeoss 1a61 potenCy ot MlfNo ni trosampts. to doto!'AisM the potency of tbe sitrosasinet as a arciaop.nis. Istt't that si9btt a 1•r aot r.ally suro about tbat. pdt it a.otb.r way. it's that you aa pue . .. . eitrosasl;nes on tbo bsoka ot rla, Yw Ms't get pPlllaus 04 osroia.*ss en the bscks o9 sta, t1i.r.toro, tbat 'sod.l ls uoL agooa yoo9e to d.ttrsiM W1NtAer a Mt tbst undesisabi• aqent esists ot !s a probleme is that oorr.ctt A I'• soCry, I dor't r..4eb.r sptciticallye p will you aqtef that there are autAoss ot sci.ntitic articles who bav0 said that sitrosasines art an enaesirabie agent in Qiprettts, that they esulel be b"srdow oaroinoqenic and that we sbould votk to r.mw, tboa or 1lsN n tbm? A lwtbors bar• definitely said tbst. Q And isn't st a laat that the pslladia sitrate cigarett• and the prototypes developed by i.lmtt tAat wote reletRed to !s the Mold ssteri ai that yos'os look.d at bad U4ber sitrissminos l.r.i., yield lrrtls, tlsu all of tho iw t.r .. . m! slatlM eil.r.tta a9afwst rbi4h they rote eo.p.r.dt .1 A~~t is laosrr.ot. Aae te as1o. src6 w.pat.s 1~ut .i.o be w Stadta.. Q I'd 1 ik. to sbow you a d.otisoat that oas aatktd at Or. Renslor's aeposition, I-believe•0 so iOA, tltst psqrt which is Rhi0:003l. !!tlLLS9 'l. L91f:0. c.9. ft. • iOAKMe As i00mN, c. s. R. <
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---~...._----------------------.._.....~------- tlartis • atoss 1963 i 2 3 4 • too don't bs.e to look at tbs entire docuarant. i'r going to di tect root att.nt ioa to one psip in that docweot. IIR. ft#M! 8 at. 649110 > r A.Y t. approaob the oit"as? Vt C0U!'x/ tk[taiaw. i 0 !'o pis6 t• Msid lor tM doon.oat a0 i ask tou to look at livivre •t. •. Aw, this isn't the first time you've assA what is Raek.d as iensier eshibit 60, to it? A Mo. !t's llot. Q Ana it's uot the first tire you're Mon tiqvre 6t? A 1to, !t's aot. 0 2sA't it od:rect there that the prototype aiqarett.* the three different prototrpe*# rell*4t the pal2odivm nitrate procrss winq tobaooo in tMt.• ailtet.nt typca of tilte:s? A to thca specific types of tiitecs, no. The tigbt answer !s to tMcoe fftci.tic cigarette Msigss tbst Li„ott . G /Vo=s soiontists Mowa up o: Ssd. ( ., !4 =s `' PcototrN sdsls to rs e..3.nsle by the oaMis. ` MCCRsMnto• by tM M01a11! M>swMeilt• itss r11at, it saYs• l+ideeal lrsM Oeriaiinp by tbf saiun so.ssM.~tr. with . ..1 : . . . . . osttaiA tipirsttts i• t!N ir[ttst. !!ay arsis have mOs the siittoSnil»s lowt than this bt polcis9 stt Wes !n ths tips v! tbe tiitor, srt tbey dccia.0 they Mn't wst to w.k. Miat i• osMnt ially goin9 to Or a hot ai t ciPlrotts. Aer.... •• 0 s.AIli. C. i. i. .70AlINt !t. •WITO>E. C. s. R. :. ; U1 0 V OD GO
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1 2 ! 4 I f 7 wsttls • itoss 1963 Mb.t they would like to do is to have the cigarette in the eight •ill i9rau .aobint tar rtan9r, so that in.toad ot b.ibo oltta light ci9airette, it vot4d be kind of In the ligbts taal* as .arketia9 9oes, and si~t4ay sptaitiatliy ata.d It against the litibts oidsrotto. Ox. 11014. la tact, . ~.~ said so in his depositlsn. Q Md that was the cigarette that or. Ndld said b. trould 1 i ke to have seen *s: k. ted, cot roet t lee: because they t.lt thtt at the tioa as • satketing sattert to "11 this oiqatetto - it bas to be sa4astovd roo oan .a9le.er a aly.=ette to 10 a $sto .illiqram cigarette by the macbine by potin9 boles in the liltec -~ Q teto stll i4r s what, tot tbe JMtyt A =.ro tar. Q teto tat7 A T.o can't .akt !t seto bat you oan oake a low Aumbet vntil. •stentialiY, •ne is arokino bot ait. 0 11nd, !n taot. tbete •te eigaraters an th, ssarlcet today was kw. .lrtraiir .e:Y little tos, m1W aa. Uilil11ta0 tac* ia that sot stlbtt a lbatls vh.t tho oaabiM ssts, tltat•s sot what psople . got • Q ftY•re talkinq sibsst the .acbino, I'll talk about the s.cAiao, cor tt ct ! i !wlLT.IB !. LW18. C. !. R. k 10kNME It. Np8!'4X, C. i. R.
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1 Z ~ ~ s ~ 1 ~ • 10 11 12 t . c. _ 13 24 iS li i a.rrls • arm lU4 You can ske it .u obtrn yoo pwt tbt e19.rsete in the lTC. •spaciallY rh.n you put lt on the otop and dtao the ssokt la, there !s so .aay bolos snd aerattons tbe eiqatett. is 1lkM a.p.ra*.. 11hsr you putl on It You'to Jrst r.okinq 4. pretty swob entirely tst. 4 ~. tlw, ot eoorss# the r.al bu.ap proolem ls as peopl e i block the lioltss they iwsko oa tA.W ss bard as they bta, to 9et so"tbiaq out of it. As a rosul t, tbe shnuthcturer could aakr the tat levei vhatever it Manted by puttla9 bdle6 !n the lilter ia thW air, but taey chose not to sake obat would •srentielly be a hot air ol9ar.tt.. Iastead, they tried to » they described it as a tall tla.ot oi9arttto that Mould bs in the eight to top oilllgtao rsaoe and not have as sony bol... Q Ltt'• rake thls a1Mre lhis ptototppr aidar.ttM is tbt ont tLat or. Ko1d sa:d he vould 1ike to put eut# wrroctt ~ ~... - ..; Q«,_lhls'rsl.trps oipratm ts the MW you fNa.., said ~. . tdVptt tornd to be a soo.pt.bs. tlsaot. and paiataU., . . ... ..:r.at!. b Mall, they b.d a lot of Sllwbtlss studies .nN a wumacr of dittorent prototype ei9arett.s that tbo tlaveria9 ProD2" had b..n addrassd. Q Arooe the Mt that you say that tA.p'tound pslatable !1l".LIo !. LWls. C.lR.R. & iOANMi M. NOtiSlON, C. s . R. ~ w m
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t 1 _ 3 4 s i Rarrie - ocoas 2t6s lroA a tast, point of viey, is a oilartm that bad trar 'oi9bt to 1! oiliiqraas ot ta tae it ia one that i• set tottb in figure ei9bt with •ae ot troie three ditterent types of tiltor., vhicb re'll " tato iA i*imut.6 isa't . ' thst ti9At? a nee their sritetie of vhat p.lstable ls. zn totos of their narrow to.w @a tast., they Want.a it ..t i• this aid range of the tar lwel. Q Let's be frank about this. Tbey p hand in hand, nasely tastt, acceptability and the aoovnt of tbess, •s you say, little holes that you can put fn tbe paper and to the tutsr to otder to reduce total tar. Isn't that riqbt? Let os put it wore .ucGaaatly. To the .Xteat to which you inerease air dilutioa ia the tilta and in tbQ paper of the ai9arette, that ottoats the tasts and acceptability of -ttn ctqaretto, dossa't it? A !he atraot anwet, bsssd +sa Mr.rythims iftow alput tMts •a.ld0 and I tshk vb.t Ote w.id osidt to that rla3p }OWt inow a ato told that a oiprotto• s" be ss[or, how 0 a tbirtasto it is stteotid sAiidstablr. . Q 80 oov. yod' e+s a ta.t. •spett ot bp.oaltls perception .T•... of cigarettes etpett? a Mo$ tts sote ftt what I ds• know is that ii people a!# given a hot •it ei4arett• and mot told that this may be a ?9l4Lis !. 1./K2t, C.B. t. i .1011MMe N. lOOfT0N. C. s.1t. ; : I .
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/ t 2 3 4 s S 7 e marrls • aross itti sattr elqarotte, they havf a very aitesrent petosption oI the taste thw it tbey' ue given a Mighlr deloded cigarette bet tb.n tL«r're told this !• a sator aigarette, th.t the stadis doue by Wooaoanits srterasilY show that psopie'a sobj.otivo pstoeptioas of ta~i, as tboY daotiLs it, depend an whether or rret they perceive tlaY'te goiAo to lias. .o** ~ tind of r..1tM auets te hs a praotip2 .atter, !t I wanted to know vhetbor of not as a cigarette !t any design is acceptable to the. pabi i s. I voal dn' t.ake that dr ei tion t or tbem, i' d l et the public decide whether or not the tast• was aeo.*ptablo. 0 io vbst rov'r* aYinq is that the tiworists, in their views at Li99.tt, the people who tast.d this oigar.tte, that tboi r.isws on whether or not it ru aeospt.bls to the public !• irrsl.v.nt, Ln your opiaions as to wAether oc not this vu a t.aaible and praotioal cigarette to s.rket* i• that what you're saying? A w. awsvors. pit.t, the tiworist• •r. oft *att dt tbe tvta vosp, dfop' [. the p.op1. at t,tie qd that they oal l ..:. • tM -apptad. te Mwo a stt.ais kind of aste. idt foMa tc s.ss am to it as a sai.stist, U i wre to ask t;at , vnStlM1• MIIN ts w4bQlde wituft se lot a eivetNttN tN aoaptable, I roidd s+atket th. ai9arotte sed lat the °pablic decide vaettar of fat it was acceptable st pwlatable. p Tov're saying that acceptance by the pabl ic is . a !!lLLZi !. LOItS. C.s.R, a d0illfNt Il. MODVmr C.S.it. ,; ,
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I ! s 5 i 7 ~ ! 10 11 12 ~- ~._ 13 14 is 16 17 , Bacci• - ecess iti7 oesbieutioA of two tMisof oae, teste, 4190 tbeir peraption or the health advantayes* i. that vMat you ia.t .sid, ia es...a? a ti lbat'. arrevt. ,t. 0 aula Litptt. ssk. b.aitb ol.W t•r 018 ai9acotts -- Md they Pst it e.t, oo„ld Ll4Ntt bere sad, doarec, ~ t1at ~ this oirr.tte r.duo.s t0e risk o! veROSC tt" si"r.tt. Moke? A I eaR't tell you ohst they oatild aaWe sAid. I's twt an •xp.ct on s+.kia9 adrertisinq clalNS. lxactlY wA.t rou oaa and can't "y, what vouid 9.t la court or tbt !'!C, but I know that -D- Q !o you don't know the ansvst to tM• Owstiort A I do tbe 4usstioR but I can only .nMrer It as a seitnt ist, Not advertising. Q i would liks you to aoswet It as-a practical petsoa vbo h.s aeso aers and said that in you oier the oosnaAy obould as.e .arketod the 'codret and that t4tre wre so sai.atitia +[~treas sot te IssrlNrt i!~ tMIL S I•0Oet. te tus# first N , ,vi ` 4!s. oovas: sa:t.isee." rft a. ..MC it a.& apect .nd tlwt's the way b. Ma.ld iswret U. It Joe r.otod, Mt. "ar..Y. Q I'd like to go brok to the Sbert on !iluco tt. Isa't it a t.at.tb.t tbe a.w Otoouct prot.typs "MIs ?. LlNIS. C. &/!. & 10A1f Nt s. 8d0>TQZI. C. 6. R.
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I a ) Rsrtis • oroas 1960 ctqarotts tetert.0 to there show blo.t yields of oittoanotaiootine than oaob of the three ior tac btAnd$ to obioh they rets oo.p.rod? x I S 7 I I 10 12 il 14 is If 17 . ~ .bor biqber asdbie» rleXdb Ip 'teis 90rtiooler Pietruc., tirat's eorcoot. ~ ` : .1 0. W' s. V •i0k to NntlA11e the rNMn• why mtte ire raoottaiatie• in exttapel.ting asssts .t ..o.n skis •sp.=ioents to •usan.. Tbe neet ora, re haven't gotten to it •- and thRef are yoor reasons » tAe nRxt oAe is Z+bY.iaal ..aalil'ot presentation of the .qent* lbect are eliiteroaces between the physical setbod ot pcesentation of the agent ln the wovse skin rodel and the presentation of the agent fn the buiicsn eondition. isn't that ti9bt. doctor? A it i csn just ase the peqw roe' ce toadiaq n coA Suot to •ak. •ote? 0 i'• rtadin9 troe p.qe 1772 of Yont deposition, A tdea't INrre what Nqo. . _ , 0.._,:.* rw'• i ik. ... :' li n.. tb. .os.ti.. .ee IM • ~~ t+w .aiO trliat the tei.o..at t{o tiNWM l.n,'.a.ea .on.itti.l of d.ts tte. oilsrott..rske oeades.at.,applied Ia the Nowo skis sodel ws woat..in. I'd like to ask yoor wbat is soettaiA about it aaB •AnLif :. LfWti, c.i.R. ioAla4t M. adnMa, c. c. 3t.
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l s 3 4 i 11 12 3S •.tris - tte.• 196! lout Onswt on 177tr whii• there at., tad.ra, a susbst of raosrt.inti.s tn appiyin9 aar•hnsan d.ta to hu.ans and while we has to h.sp !a sla• th.t sarpsrisons .aoq9 a!'s[stto Msiins .od ir sYsts isl* the ~isss stts . ; . ~ t~wotvfassls assay say !i ths bsst Vs have sbott of lro"n 0 datit a.oa' the taotots !s tho mosrtaistr 1»trsta woartn mrits and otMa sow*ma sa..ailaw rttolts are ditt.r.Aews in lntet.p. alo. stabol iso. dltE.r.aos. ia physical sstlad of prtsentation of tlst agent between anissis and hwmans -- A !on toraot ditRtrsnets la the orssn distrioutioa, Q Did I skip a lto.! A Y.., Q oitf.ranoes in the or gan di stri0ut ion of the aqaat, w wnt over thato difference in thW pbyaieal sothoas b.tw.n anisals and Mm.ans and other PMatsasskinetic and Janotlc ditt.rono.s between the spsctos. lsat•s stikl Qorr.ct, oorr.ott A --Xss: •., Q ~dal st~1t. It . A .."VealtM !o sts&. os t ss1 d@ that !Do sorr. .tls . tr.orteMste assay sW M tIN 1Mot w baos srort o! Rrs.n Mta. 0 Nowe the physical s.thotl o!• Ntossatatioa s9 the aq.at is different in the muse skla and ip ssa, Qorrs ott MUZi t. L0116, C. s. !l. i .10AN1a9 Mo r00mN, C. s. R. ~ m %J OD PA r ~ w ~ r . . : : i :
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1 ! 3 4 s I 7 I ! 10 11 12 k L 13 14 1s 11 r •atti• • atou id'10 A "at's ootttOt. 0 Qw2d roti •splain the aitlet.ncoT a lhat'• p.ttr •bvtors. ta the ease of the .ous.. •ns ~ . ,. . ~ .. . woists the eilai .tt• la a sabis, tltst. !w• b.t arotco th.n . . ~ .. ~ oN1ioAM• oi Nttles dOillp to a I/ay sibuat that hot steam . .. wri• osad.ass an a abow.: ptat.. 444 !A this ar.. it's oone.nsed and oolleot.od aad ta.A oav. it's 000604606 and wli.atod it's giveA to the wods.. On the other baAd. vben you smoko a aiqa.cte, youV lung it»l! do.s the collection and condensation and then the tsr settles doWS eA to the pussayos of the luno duting saoking. Mbet.as iA the Ross0 assaY, the oi9atett• is soot.d by a.aobinea the particles caow •at# they oond.nse and th.a tbeY're paint.d on the aairalso a 1lov, lootot, you said, Mtwitlstaadis9 alt of thls, the .ouse skin painting siodsl Is the best 9sn9o to ooopate stlati.e oataiaog.nioitY i® aiLtaost eabstaaas, laaludi.9 , . , - _ , di!legoat trpa of ellatatt.s. !.a't trat ..ct.ott a i trorle say z a tm asa at sigatott.• it !s 'tbe best* ys. ' oo~a' p tsa•t 1t# io taet the awP tMr,A, that isr.st.lgitors aoM it.lt.ve that the boat feuge to oa.pat• srcA araias9.aieitr !s oot the soase skin at all but laAalation tests to h..stecs? •AMiS T. tMils. C* i. lt. a iOMN6 M. w00mlz. C. B. R. 0
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. V f I 2 5 i ii tarri• - aro.s lill A sa.e iearestiqatous think that wt !aa nar ptoduoa csncas of tbe larynx by having baatets ssoko. lbat is sJPsnins and valid stedy. p:. w.bwr4a ts one a tMe poopl* that wab.e s tMat. ., . It i s tr •s tb.t citarotte ssoke, Wb.a ISsOa to a lwistor !o a wortNt vontition M tber'te olwioMslt not o.oki ng • oi da rltte, wt the e.o" 1• lA s obssbe r. lD.y will got cancers of tho lacynx. And tbere bas been soM. •iscussion nov as to vb.tder oc gat we oan sust wo that as a tfst to oontiar that asokiaq wnses osneer but oampar• ditt.cent kinds of ci+tsrottss* bnd v.'re not .sactiy at the point wbere psopie would aqrse that this study Wrld compare Qi9acettta. It could cectainly test and sboM ciqarette smoking eao.es cancer in another vay, but wA.tb+r it oQSld be srod to eo.psrt two ditteront o"so tbst's s+emotbin4 tbat's still up in the sit. But i think it artainly -- aa a sci.Atist, I wnl d«rtai aly lilrW to ..! th" tosMi ts a ai i thole t* st s. 1A01e".e that oIN. At 0=., lsrr, tbe tset that h yvr view the .os.o akiR siod.l is a ~O 1POIf to o"ptte qrtlM~l11~11~ty blt1/M" oM ..~ eigatltte and aMtbet fitatlttl. tlt•t M.s sot sssR that tbe sosrlts of Mwn skiA paintinp esx be extrapolated to wan and that eoduatioa lo carcinot.aioity is the b.cls ot .io. of 90 perosnt, 100 p.ro.nt or SO percent aan be oonvocttd MTL.Li: 1'. L!N I0, C. s. R. i0A11lt6 N. ItQIS'M# C. s. R. : I I
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- .._ ~ ..~ _ .. _. ._.._ - - ---- -- -- - ..... ~ .... _. ._ . - _ _. _. ,..~. _. ~ _.._..~..._ _ •atsis • eso.s iflr 1 ( ! ~ 4 f • 7 • f 10 12 i) M into rodaotton is len9 eano.r ti.ks from ervkin9 tor bar.ASt A I think one vould have to have an ezro= taotor It onn did bbate wbu. lt'& loo prcosnt effective to: miot and , . . . ..1r " p.r.at l• .es: spoti..ats. It .oala e.ae.twably b. . . ~:.~~ ~ .. . Only f0 p.caat effective is &was. I i think the wrr.ot way 4. dt.orih tt owld k lbore !• an orror taator bseawe w doA't •svo to direct lntoraatioa on bu.ans. 1h vouidAft have It tor sueb a oi4arettt or any cigarette for 20 riears. Q ta taet, dootoc, it doesn't oatabl isb what would happen IO the bir.n .Yitsm. It*• essd only 6006650 lt'• a 14090 and only because It is a sac..niAq test oc a tir.c stop to looking at eiqarettss. Isn't that rightt A Ro, 0 Te lootinq at ospaiatnttl ot4pt.ttotT A I vo qld eiraqc.o with tbat. 0 Ooctot, i•R going to now show yoa ono of the aur.arisa# the last eft ot the National C.esott tastitsto d.okin9 and t.utA lsoqtas that nw bsrllot aar you s.b.eriM• to. ` 10i. UARUyS It lso yoMr laare vot bault.d. i' it c .; tito it as r.port asobtr tioo. 'lwuds Las rasardsis ClOsrottos, Mrrarye f+sor ikin lriNtin9 Otosauyo tlrin9 A xlos, I artatalr toeot"d it, g.t like a ss'uIft.. Oead.nsato tcor sapsris atal Ciqarett..,• dtptesror of 1010. Nsy I apptosah the witness? &-A CM ,•.w 00
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i. 2 3 4 s i 7 A f l0 11 12 13 14 ls 16 17 1! ZO 31 2! 23 ~ 24 25 llartis • ordss 1471 TIM CaiAt s ooes 1lr. iOsli bevs • copy? RR. ROtLLs Thank rou. 0 Osstore s'a goia4 to aroct roor atttati+os to psst two ot that 6ons.at. Tbws th. lirst osps o: the obossont? . , A ''!bat's tigl+t. I Ma.e osv.r s..n this deann.at. MOat I aotwliy subscribed to vas the annual «patts aea tbis vas a study of • particular cigarette a opposed to the annual euss,acy, as t«r as I ean tell. 0 It's a svsoary of tour skin biossssys using the eondonsate from eXperiwertal aiyax.ttes? A Thst's right. I aaven't ssen this bttorR . Nhat I've seen is like the annua2 reports. 0 t' x ga i ng to ak Yov to di rect rour att est i on to tAe last psra9raph on that p.a.. I•• going to ask you it you agree xith !t. If i.ay, i'0 lihe to road it. '~-- 'l~rs Qrisarx ~b~tstl.o at tbese Qi~erdtte lspsri.ents li to i.tersiae tA9 tMSorgeretio activity of o.e6sasats tras ..eb ..poriaest.1 oigar.tt. +boa,aoual o.ights ot~e=y amke eeftasnsate, as apttasta• to equal odrb.rs ot sig.r.ttos or •quals erlbers ot pr.tts. •rt applied to Mouss stin. Tbe vospdnent• of the tsbsaoos, the'aigrrotte 00oke oondansates and whole mokes, and the pbysioa2 sbsr.at.ristics of the !WlLLii T. __ Is._ C. s.1t. 07oUxe ». .ousM, e. s. R. W
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1 t ! .3. 4 S 4 ~ • ! 10 11 12 13 14 I esrris • osoas ai9aretta provide erteAsiee laboratory data. Analysss ot tAose data iado4 .ocrel.tioas with aonst skin tmot biMSsays Mta let ia.ldbts vhlab wake oo.poa.nts aRe . . , .. . , .. l% Ra. .I. . . . .. . . . ' . . ... arosiat.d vitM adnotse b..lta sitooti. !Mi onlrsss piovide as .V.lwtioo vt the salitlve t+sss oitY ot the sp.ri.Mtal aiptattos ao• setrro as ti* b.sis trt tlie i' drsidn of adva.o.0 eiptotte •matas.ts. IM sltt~at. .bi.otiee for wess exp.rtaents !0 to ld•ntitY the Cha[aeteristias of less bssatdolm oloarettes that vill ssrre • ss 9uideliass !ot future svrsw.rsial oigsratese fto©tas is bi.d.red by the w+aert.in relationsbip betwea trsots r.sulttpq tros Ronse skin pointed vitb aoadenaatt "d hoan iwq a+.noer snd by the virtwl abssoor ot tsforsation on the eardiwraseular sAd respiratorr otteot• of aMese at9arottes, beyond the perwissibie taloiena.s trw their pWitaal aad abesical obataat.cisties. -lberetor., the akie psintzaQ bioassars are viewed as serNainI tiPOri..ats. It is asai.N tbat todsetioa ot .ow. MraU tssOCtISaie ropns• . • . . • ,, leaft owlm aend.as.te i• .•alld Sadioatac of .iable linrs or lIIDe/tilatiM that b!f worth fotao1 sg. trroogA MN bspmstiat.de and .om oostir# ttst.o soab as aiieot AsUalatlft of WMle wroko !a sostable WMi Md.1s. !Mw the •spsrtments are oonsider.d initial steps 1e the proass of lsp[.ein9 cigarette ahsrsatoststia.• lbold ra• •9ree vitb that atatwnt, doctor? wY4t.u !. L/Ilta, C.S.*. .10iWNa A. IMMM 0 C. S. R. I .
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1 a 3 4 I t 7 e start vttb. 0 _ -04i sl*t. A So you can't say there was ao cednotioA. both soro to Il.rtis • ei'os• lVs A It oectainay would be onm ot the Lirst tests Y would 11N. An4, in laot, it was oot ths titst bat oAm of the tirst test• that LlMtt' t Mr.ts aia sa0 _ tb.a, as .nqyat.a , by tbis, they went on and aia Labalation studies and they asd .Odtess the atdtearaseulat an0 sespit.tar ett.ots. . t p Ana, aoator, !.a the 1162 tarr inMlatiM tests that yoa'te .pMatcing about. ther• was .o difference presented in the t.oaicity or catcinoqtnlaitY b.twen tbe palladisa nitrate ci9.cette and the cleagett• without the pslladiw elt"te PCoo.ssN there ws sio dit[etona.. AO [saYCtion, they wce pretty *ucb the aam• in tMe cat tabalttion tests that were done. I6n't that right? A i don't think there were any aanoers iN the cat inAalation tests. 0 cortect. 4 25 . . 1~ *w, 7ou talMa .Mrt low tac *iatia. SiORcatt.ao dmy ';- . ) .4r . r L: Acs yoe .oaa of t1N 'taat that er. Nsia a st 1t i. d that the 4i"catte rais Mt ae..lopsa to .np.ts apinst lov tat micoti.e eigacettat A tos, Oat's asltect • toi [Masns I tspl.luad. 0 Ana it wasn't to oo.pato, be aai/!, against !tw s. & .e%L:: :. LWIS. c& a $OWNt a. .ouesox, c. s. a. --- -------------------
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( . ~ 2 3 ~ S f , .7 aarris • t«ss 1676 aiqacata! a No. They didn't wanR to .orato the oi4aett• to aapoto a9alAst the ai9ar.ttes that would a.arkst.d a ltiM i110rOttfs at that tiM• tlatts~tao[rtOt. ps0, aatot, the et9arotts, raoatsia9 to or. 4ai4, baa . , . <: . - .... r- : SIK• .tat thaa the !tw otflratttt ~ ~ . . , : Lot .. •spisis tbat# !f» *sllsair. alttet0 prototrpp citat.tte haa .ers tat than the srw c19arett., correct? A Yis. Zn that p.rticslar •• tbib io, to taat,-tn Or. 11014' • video tapa dep4si tien. 1 tbiek that you wnt tbrouob a docusat with his and sadi a shart, i aotvallr Iatsa't N.n the ab.rt, but you oa.paro0 tbe m.obis* s.a.rrs.ats of the lrus 85 ailllMttcs ciqarsttos tot vbat, 19780 rfth the YcAine rKSurptnt• lot the prototype PM1Zf4.1tA Oigirotte tbat they wre.aisiaq at the .o0lub tar to sod.rato tat r~nqo. A That wnla Ir. !rw ln the ta'i to 1M. t ba lffs that If_lOrhft• 4 aotst. it the ei~.r.tto la.tbat portios .t ~ft. IMirs to.ts.oar, lroa r..ail that t" !tiw slo&r.tto -W.e 1s" tar tras tbo 0sll.eia. tutrate prototyps sigst.tto? ... A The .aohise sssursstats ou U. lra. 1s1s.na ts that pwr is '78, bse l.ss ot OWACOrA ~- doa't Iwor -• loss tars. I think taat say be not oorroat. .elti.LSa s. LM:., c. p. A. i SoWNs K. .onsar. c... R. : i I
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1 3 3 s 9 7 Garrt• • eross 1077 iut it o.rtalnlr had not• iA saratlon tAan the p.lladivr typ prototype oisr.tte theu+ sVO tor the oi9bt .iili9ran. 0, !M. Pai1aaira ai9aratto bad rrocs added estrat.a! .~ A tloraat• .. Q And a4d.d nitratf• .ap rou haWa a flavor proDler, bad odor, dirtY taat.. has to ba dealt with in sarw othar way? , A It you are tal kinq aboot • oight, aita, ton pet aeae Aitratu• the ii.a in the •lutio• w rot•r• talkiea about ,i aitrats, Mmethin9 very low ranqe, and whether or not the Astrate added or vh.ther it is intriA.io to the tobacco vili affeot fla.or. 4 !b• palladiwm ntt:at• bad wore oarboA .oROai4e than the True eilamtty A M.110 let as ay thiat !b• answer to the question ia, IIN. it &1 Aot. . :~ • . 0 !ro Pallaqiir sioir.ttt tt.d .ers nitrate asidss qaek of i VW~rotot~f• tlAt+A~ •4a~A~t? ~ `'~~let s A tNl ltt.. : . . ~, Q lail.dlir haq viern total O.A.lst ' A !bo pc.t.trpe cigarette soak.d .p vith a o.rtain Morllt#d of •Arat1 oA L11 MCZIiAW "4SUroMfltt bad morr of Ofrtaill Subitan0rs than !rr! W• tNAdrod by the raOlM af w 1x rl.L Z s'!. 1.111 ! 1. C.212. & JOAM N. •OWlON. C. Q. R.
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( 1 2 4 ! 6 Barris • atesa lt7• .a:ktt.d tp 19780 0 Ooatot, you testified on de2ositlon that you could eot •b/ that the palladta, aittate ei4at0tt• reduoa risk ot lrnd aAaR sCo .c lss "as lor tat awd elootias . ,. . "qsrett.s that are ea the ..rk.t todar MoMid reduce tAe i4 tisk •t 1.A9 eaaar tor sosbody UAa i• ssekto9 • titll . flavor OtgirfttOZ . ` A oi rect SR to it. 8orry. Rvt I didn't understand it. Q CrcaY. Paqe is36. 1 asked you tbi• quwstiosd and you oave this answa $ Mould tt redvice lt... -- soapieal the lung cancer risks -- to a M9ree .ore than tie risk of lon9 oaaotr wwuld be rodDa.0 by a lsr-yteld eiq.r.tte to a petson vbo ebooses to r.oke a lorylold aiqsretteT Anwer. that you 9avk s I annot say Stow the wid.nce the Mlc.* to which such a cigarette sii9bt bave rodaoed the irnq eaw.t lAaidests to w.Oatirss to aAy Otbe[ psetio.l.r kinds ed oi9aretts, !N 't1w alNSa .t , .. . . .f . ;, to tist a ataot anwtst .. .,; a ootrat, but it's Mnelost* bram tM @t.bi.e to we i dMn't 2a+r...ptd.atolsaiaal evtdesoe about so.e ot the lov, tat cigarettes tsdar. We bave very qsod opfdisioloqical «id.aos s the -- .n the tiiter cigarettes tbbt were 1RlLLIS !. tWi1. C. B. R. 4 JdWNt N. MMMN. C. i. R. ~ m ~ OD r : s . 1 i :
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Uk a I 4 i i Itarris • oross 1170 iatrodvad In tA• f0'o. but there ia a let oi ooaoorn tbat as.e of tbe low tar cigarettes aay iat r.Auof ian9 o&nosr at all a.aws papie soske them wooM bacdor. ~ . . . , . t ~ 0Ir" *.iot is/ jov dea't 4a.e ooidaaiolofloal tosalta as . * f' won glais that Modld sstioat th+ risk ot l.Ao a.noa to a ss.t+.r of lar tar aaa siastiat eioat.tt.s, aad that !r why . ,~ Yen esa't d.totsiae rbstho= or .ot •Palladium aitrate eiqatttto vosld rtduce that risk or aot sadua, t,ko risk of lvn9 caneRt to sa.boey who oAooses to wakc iov tar nivotint ci9atftt,e.. is tb&t ooareott A Mo. lb.t is aot oorreat. I could esplaia rhY. p 0!M't you also ssy on il.posltion tot osttain low tot and Niootine ClOsrrttss there 1s a Mor.Ms. In tbt lAcidrAca of papilivass ane on the Rowrf skia ttstsp A Ma.rt did : say it? a ptv.1so7 . A !a. As I tAipk i•splairwd to you or to At. ol.aklty rsstftdat# th.re has O..A t,a. oVAIVA.A astly bY !t. 1lladsr tr~~ it a. aap.ra tli: tob.ao. is ei~srotta to t~o .~. . . MA.s and aistl.s with tkese io the lat.r p.rlodi, tmt oa •foi Mtiebt MsZs# vM tot 9tM• S1N 'ist !a son siNr.tta Is rsessiid lkss atols.veui., a.• ltl• ot.- ltrnd.r's feeling at tAat tiso W. !. O.ase tt.r• v.ro ' kitA.r level ot aitrat.s' !h th.• aidarottts. Q !oo /as.p saying 'oa s per weiot easis.* M!r nL:8 r. trra, a. s. A. soaae a. .ons:on. c.r. R. .
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t i ! 3 4 4 rorris • oitos Ut0 !bs earciaoq.aocltY would b. 1R.• than attt.is low tat Rlaotint ol"rott.s. t"'t it alio the oaN that la low tat aAd Al aetiue aiMrattos, the ..olcer Irr ~okia..s.aasrsa~t• 1• vottino le.a tar, is that tiSMT A gr the Nebins, the Nacbiaa fats ltsa iar. Wi.tbet the s.oker gets less tar is a harder ptobl..s it i• * proAles that aii ot th• o0Apanies have be.n aonoarted aboWANd .ooe of the laternal docnments lbilip llotcis' scientists specitscsllr addrossed. Q Mvv, or. 11old ba sai• that w well M thota wete so cutascka la the rosa.rcb project in 1973 awd that was 0 .at t. r ao bea a ai spit• aboat . Did you look at that last aigbt in his drposition per 46arce? A Ilo, Y dtd aot. t eaa 4ivt, as bist as i arn reaali, tbore was an overall cutback in tbe progran relah, I think, aar .oi.att.c voale r4eatlY we bappoA the M9soo of b ib!s !o a plat the PCoqcaw .boala bave beee •sp.u~ds i ttiiek it roale be tatr to srr tlut ot. Mold Wtl• 1we always vaiRea 00 psiis0irs sl,Mcette to kt test.i sore tMororqWly bet, a• a practical sittor, it vas kept al i.o. 0 Mov• I ai piAO to tood tram sMld's /kposition, Psns,ia !. 16.Nis, c.s.s. & aosaaa N. roorear. c. s. R. r . $ ,
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, : 1 ! S • I • raccts • oeoss 1ea1 M9s n, i assuse that you t.ad it io ptipattn9 your t.ot l.onr? ~ liss. . . . . .... . . , 0,Mt. Mil ash.d# vet• there irrtbit cuts .odt, sis, lA ,.. k , about 1s poopit .ud thens of eostre# t.racds tre sad of ry tenure !n '?9 there was a majot essentially aftoack ot all, what twould a.ll. c.sarcb, 40 or so peopl.. Questions O.spite thess cstb.eks did you develop what you believed to b. a sat.r alwette?• . Aosv.r: Oespite the cutbacks we stlll had suppott fcos .anaqesant to oantinae vbatNrer was neassaty to carry this pcoj.ct forward fn spito at all. In tact# when At. Aeilt9aR aovacd tound out ve had cut bick swtbinq on the biological tats, he vas not plessed, and M ceiustttrttrd tests and •tjlanded them after thRt, so there was no 0" no tolli" of the .ttott on this Pto)sst wirii w•ad . Ntrltablo siptotto• ' r. .. . . ., 0 i 9s rw recall thit testlroar? - .~~ . a v.~"iirs. Ilto mac.ner vis t1+e lawyer tist sde book the 4i*"rRttRSlp Mt SRfMgment. Q so his testtaonr v.s that tAec• vas no outbaak in tb. n.rorsh bud'et for the pailadlm nitrate Mvelopsent, is that tijbt? !1lLL Is '!. LMf Ia. C. e. R. lo.wt I I think . lii M there vas sasth.r cut of 4 ,101W11a M. rODM1i. C.S.A.
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Rsrris - gross 1662 1 3 4 s 4 A Mo. Yoo just taltuea .bout all tAe p.opie they droyp.a. t think an aocorate descriptioa would be .anaqes.Rt cat bsok r.searaA averely. C.ctaialy wasn't isor.assd, but tA. p.Iiadiu% aipr.tt! oas .ft 4000%, tb• eo.ps1W bs4 that tbey didn't w«~t to drop tetitaly. ;:s.• io wkta Or.rton tried to kay out Li9"tt to lf6o, the one asset the "sp.ay bad that they waet.d to bold on as a aorpsrate asset vas the p.liaditN al9at.tte. I think it ro uld be tatr to say aitboupb there were .ajor outdteks which as asCientiat s think to disappoiatiaq, .an.q.a.nt lcnw that they bad .osoetAin9 there, that !s oorrect, ansi it to oot alwr that .anaqosost ss oppased to legal ooeaaol vas, to taot, responsible tor o.entual>> the tail ure to sart.t tbe ai9atotte. 0 Ooctor, I bn•t want to 9tt iato a discession of vhat the taets aro. That oill voqr• trvs Or. 11old's drpositioA. t.tt wt torum you on what tbw basis !s, it I can for a Nsoat• ot your testi8ony aad ywt .pias.oa 1• this - Yov t.atitled that sb.r• Was a Mud9st at is iS93. . Aro. foq sari.9 ftar, ws . Modipt out or w.n•tt a Tks Mrbera t aAw.a t1* jury oiMtly is"Ntit that. MR. 8oRS.L e Caa I ahov the oit us ss the ps.oodis9 Ln m %J pa9r * ~ °~.° 1pit. UARNtT: i object to th• Int.:cuption. NTLS.IB T. L8i/t8$ G.8.20 a 800" !1. f WSTOla, C. S. A.. ~ ~ ~ o.
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i 2 ) .4 i i as •.ctls • ecosa 1463 NR, sOiLLS Nr. Seaiaey oAly teHd part of what Or. Mola aaid concerning bedy.t Qnts. !et COURts I tbiAk !t ros ago joins to tetet to tbe d.po.iti.n# the vitats. •w1t to liaoo it in ttoat of bio ao M a,i toilrr it. •m a .~ . 0o roft iw* any obiostivu to it? ItR. a&lwts a flo .b3.otion. ,odto. "e CObRTs it bf teel• the ncad to look at soaltbinq .i s*, I will le.ve it My to the viteWss. NR. tOCLL 1 Can I ti.• it to biN? !ac CcnRT # Give Min a oopY. Q Nor, Oootot, you tastitiea that LLtyett should have put nor• aoAey Into re.farab and i.velop.rot troo aarertisiny. At that tias did you t.is the J.rY what or. Mold Iad testified to with roaptoc to tbw oonditioo of Li99.tt's brands and business tn the late stventios? A I don't knov it it was in the late saventies. I taiak Oc. Sold di0 talk aboeR, tboro 4800 a tia. Wb.a AiMtt was losia4 marR.t .bar.. &sa, O.vtoto ioA't St asr:oot that b. aaie %Aat Lty9ett .ar.U" to aloa dovn 9oaatios la 1!7! it tb.ce wt.a't an inoroase is Nl*6t Do You t.call Ua saying that? A Mo. I doelt rroall bis aartai tbat. i! you point it o0, i-wilt be happy to discuc• tt. Q 0. you r.eall M!a saying that Litgett Atands vere going i sSlLLi11 'P. LersS. Ce i. i. a 410AItlIt M. SM!WH. C. s. R. 4 t t ;
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i 2 ~. 4 S • Nirris • ato.e isN dovn the tubes# that tAlY oouldn't let ehelt spsoet A Ooa't bow oAetAet be said it and I don't tnow v1Ntb.r tMt is cotc~at. M Tl f!e can show M tbe ObiMtirf oj=orts0 I waA tbe dollars and Mats os to oMst their sales Msro# boir such soa•r thty .p.at oa vtaa aost., inaladia0 •drtrtisis9r as w disvuss.d, I eorld ooewut on lt. I can't ts.nber esaotlr rbst Ot. Ilold said about what bs perooived •s a soisntist, to bs the financial condition of the cospsay. Q Dr. llold •- or, Sarcie, l.iggltt's market saat., total wrkst sbaro for all its br.nds wnt i• 1946 tto. 20.peto.nt of the market to 2.6 percent of the market ia 10611 io that corr*ct t A Y don't knov. It you eeuld sbov fMt the information mwt only an tAoi r oar kot's sbate, but on their total •al. s. I could look at it. by i!!3 the total ssloe o9 oiporKt.a le the a. d. ah- "ta9 to approtoh S• billi*oo, M I lerorst of !• iiilioa is'a - r.vpl• bVwdrod 0411 i.e ie sslos. - a 0 btlo:o market sharo went diom IS *.re.N t to i.d peraat, . .0 do rw knew that would be a taot A lAst would oean they would be about ddru d00 aslllion - 0 Ate you aware it deal ia.d ttoo 20 p.caAt to 3641 I.I uot sv.ro lroa tbt p.rioa of 1640 .o..tbioo, aaW 91•Y`Z1 t. UWt19 C..M• i O0i1MM6 No vWsMO C. i. 9. 3 s .. : .
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i 2 i 4 • ! • Barria - aross 1003 what vs• it, llil that there bad been eractlr that d.elini* lput It ss, that would i.ply that Orses u1s ot Liqgett and Ibera cigarettes by 1041 voula bs .4 tbs order -- let se see it~.i Oot tbe a.aisal poiat siobt ~- 000 siill ion d.ll ats. Q'ris s.,Y bi'9ett vas •pen041* tos suob ls sdvottisin9, is that ronr •fer, !• tAe pri.e iW. Ws snd early s0es. that i• vbat yor were talti n0 savt sn direct sxaisationt a As I test it ied b.tore. It wosl Q ha.e been -- bMd I b.ep advised, i would boroe sdvisod U9pstt aad /lpsr• to sovQ s+oaeY away trea the prosot ion of •xi st f n4 product • in the direction of ew sad promisinq products. And as a sotter of t.ct, bad I been •dvised, it, In tact# eslsciAq priducts were losing .arket $Aare, then I would have eonsidered it even .ore appropriat• to s"e in the direction of nev proltucts, net on1Y tros the poiwt ot rie+r ot the prot itabil lty, brt alro troa the poiat of view ot the public's view in qenetai. 0 OortK. It ssoebsdr ..oked s Pallsdiw nltrste oipaette . tMt M0 h..s as the satbet, wria that ar.k.r still Alave a 19 eisk .f l.n0 .a.o.r tr.. stfPr.ttO r..RiMt ~: aaoptsa the pa1l.Otrm aitrate eiliar.tte iat.= w ia sea•a .rokin' bistoit, •ne has all the MakirO •aels aone with ss.e otber trpe el aiqaracte tp-to that ti..e so It would o.t be •- !t would eot be an accurate scientitic stat.w.nt '6a. Ar ! bare testitied, ap.olallr it tbat *.rsea AlLLI= !, i/Ii1 is, C. S. a. 6 aOAI[Nt A. NODVM, C. S. a. .; l . n . 0
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1 2 ~ • 5 i 7 ~ ! 11 ~. ~. 1) 14 is 16 17 .~ : •sttls a eross 1t" to say that onqdestionrbir that risk ot gettia4 idaq oaaosr voel a be roduo.4 •At i r.ly. ht .a..Pl., it a"rsa ssroked tot ts y.ats *tMar . . . .. . ,~_ - sigar.ttes and taa adoptid tlrs pallad1.. oitrata si9acett., tb.t. siobt be a as2ativolT .aall. atill a oidniliftAt but . . ~~ tolsti..lr ..all ssacttoh io aaost tist. . Q M1atle.lY wall eNdaotian la osAOSt t ist /i• a tssol t of .vitebiaq to the palladtsa aittate aitsrstt.. 2s tb.t tibht! A Tes, tbat's oorrect. Q And the r.duot ion in cancer risks that would be , attribyted to that would be that ~- tbat r.daotion woald a loss than the reduction you would tst it you stoppsd s.okin9 enti rely? a 100110 i think it would have to es. Ilo would bavs to say that the 9reat.st reduction ia risk would arise !f one stopped N th• greatest r.doation in risk would sciss it cae aotr.r ..oRed at all. 0;'daau.iAd th.t•to a trioksr, tbo ttoatast t•dwetioo la .., siak,is to atoo asOkiaI, aot.t. switah to a talladiw Y ' nitrato sidaotte, o.rroet! . A Giirtn that oAS aas a,reMd sp to a oortaia Potiod tt ti.. aa0 siv.R. that oae e.nAOt. a~do the sookir~ that oowttoe up to a eatais Peciod of tle.# tbsn asonq the alternativta stopping ssokinq entirely would De superior to tbe palladiu. t. R. lBtLL18 !. LOt1Q, co JOAMaa N. .onoloti. c.t.R. . .
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i S Aarrf• • aroaa 1817 oitrate oidar.tte, espeaiailY siaoe taeco ace ocber cisks be.ides o.noer. 0 Mar. Muttbel..s, you would say that tb0 abs.AOe of the .. . - . - ., . . M.li.diue aittate cigarette tia. •.sbostanttal eoatrtbuti,A9 ...N ,.'. .. _ . . i.~ . . .. laat.r to the dw.lop.st ot Mrs. Ctpoiloa.'s ihn9 oaaac, t• that tisAtt . ; ,.: .• ., A s.s, that's oo«o.t. • 0/ garette. right T A Tb.t is astcect. 0 11i1 rlobt. . ,.. 0 so tail we to sacket it and tb• taat that she ooul8n 't ase it vas a substantl,al contributing taotor to hot d.velopinq lung aanver? A It, In tact, .he •dopttd the algarette at tbo tase pRtioa, ia .Y opin/oN it oauld have been arailable ritb a proper Intensity of tosearch. 0 An4 that's beaive* sAt did oot got that reduotlon In risk that you say is attributable to the alladive nitcat. .r£. O.ttoA s Oroator trOnQtleat ~ A' tiad o1N stopptd ..olciaq yiu .."t p sad she K.ppsd s,okla9t hiid abo `rit, ao[tsett A i tYtnk that would be the Nn iat onlr tor lung cancer but tot ali the health Yasards St rrotiia9. 0 sot thtretore, b.c failure to Odtt, failure to stop ~ MYLLTS !. Zwr:s. c... R. a aoAMlfe M. •auloa, c. s. R. :~- -ftt had Nro otopp.e, quitia,, sbe waid bawo w.n
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1 :. ~ ! ! 4 7 e ! 10 12 ~ : 11 lt 1S 17 ls lt 24 _s sartis - eross 1lt• aokin9 1• a suDstantial vantributinq taator to b.[ Mvelopr.nt of lunq aonosr? J1 t aon't know it bet i*ails[t to oait s*okin9 roold be e. OOw~idt[~ a ~~llrro. '!'b~t~s Aiot .'~rt ~t ~~~/1i0A. M~ ~ would s.r that it arla met M. Soasidoro• the aa" oawe of . .. ; • . bat tew9 oaswRe tt seitaAnlr rsYl• dop.a& M when oe would . ~ . ~. ontortatnt bYpotbotleallY, that she was srpposa• to swt. a 1 eidn't ask !t it vas the ..in vaase. i'• saying it is that bet not auitinqe bet tallor• to quit in if?3, Moqld also bwo to be a substantial oontribatin9 e.tls. in tbe deirrlop.wnt of her lun9 oanotr? b Yos. It you w.nt to .ar that !t lo bet tsilrro, i'• not be:o to do that. •ot it would o.ctainlr be tte oase that St the psll•aias nitrate aiq.r.tt. was a subutaotial contributing laotor, thfn reooviaq eiqar.tta. •ntlrtly would also be a srbstantial oontrilwtinq taot.r. 0 And, tborllorf# hop[ [ailuro to quit lA IM would also N• srbstantisi entrilwtlao toster !o the dw.lop.ont of Mir le.ll ewo.[? .z.•0:_ . .. s• . . . '~. ; w"i NYd.d Ya tbat t/Met . ". ,.~ .6 a too ttris4 to sr it ia .y wn votse* sod -sm .t.".d is 1964 tthe ryduetion in bet risk Wor1• bsv. r.an a eubstantial aatrilwtlnq taatet'i trOHqb i*n or ojllAioa, fA 'ii, the osokinq up to '66 would be the ..ia taotor. aa I've, -4 OD M ~ ~ ~ ~a. , y i I s ~ , ~ ~ . . : :
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r I ! 3 .S is •trris a eross •xplainsdo in the Qases of her lung oanors. 0 All ri9ht. ieto Dovtot• sat• i! the Qigaiette or a oiqarette was on . the s-ar~ctt that haa the patiadlMr attrato proass to it, and bse CipsiloM aeeer triod its she sbriowir WsiM't lot .J . .~ any N/sotion to elsic from lwa' otuoft by sirtw 09 it, aort~act A I think thst's pretty -- that's ootrtat, yes. 0 And It she had tried It and didn't like it and stoppad MoklAq it, she would not qot any reduction in iisk of lspq oa,ncer, correct? A Use that's aorrect. Q And It she had tried It and it oost too such roney beaawt it vould be pr*alas price with this pallaeium and ottal and rbe didn't want to pay It and she stopped Mtinq the el9atftte• then she would sot -ave Aottes •ay reduction in risk or lrn9 osnoer* isn•t that oocrect? A Ilelt, for rhstsesr raason she didn't MMote it, then she woida't have wd the Nnetit of that e19890tto, *ioariy. i~ # A ~_ . U. .. S y;'* in CoYRla are la=tlsk , . . C~•~ci~AS:o~e OT U. fARRIMI s Q Or. isrrts. I beltere your first lWolearent to We f!1lLGIi To i.wf 2t, C.S. t. i MMNi N. •OOilOli, C. R. R.
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1 Z 3 • S 4 •.tris • Cr"s/Iatcish 1~f0 Qae was in lMbeasry of 1lid6 io that ti9btt • lbst's oo«eot. p !ru veie iovitod, I btl ihre, to a 8.oeting at Icr. ideil's *tria.* t• that tiOW ,: . A lhet'0 Wte0t. a And M[. Well was tbore, a lavret M.ed Nto errnsil was taere. ci~tt ' A Ya. Nc. O.tn.ll vss . th.ce. Q and there was another lawyer aa.ed N=. Movsk thetet A Thst's ci4ht. Q Tliere vete so" other l.vr.r$ there? A Yes, there vote. Q- There was agentlevan by the A..e o! Ot. wrns. is that riqht7 A Oavid 4arns was thet."o res. Q And a or. Penny was there .i9d, sifbtt A Nt. hnny. Q 11nd you vere theret _ .. . .~ A yVbat's tiobte t .,~. ~ ~ .. sa iaa.r.tsnd it. at that s.eti" at Mc. Mil's at!!M to vhiot 70% vote all lmnrlted, t1a lOVyess t.l* a . j little bit ati.ut tbat l.rsolt. tMat tier li.d and each oae elf.rtasoe--bYfouthte.f taanyae, Nt. Mrnny andor. Onrn., told a l ittle oi t abort your qwl ltlations and rMetber oc aot roo thouqht you ooula help la the larsnits. riM=s *. swrU. C. s. R. t. SOMAt M. i00t'XM. C.O6 , i I t
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t i 2 4 d t 12 13 CN •orris • Cross/lsrsisb 1691. to that right? ~ ~'b~t's Odr~tCt. 0 And att.r you osQlaierd Yonr Oaslitleitioas you told Ar. . Ddoll and tbt oth.t isw.rs that On tiioitdbt sarbo you oorld ~. Irsip to this lavsrit by talici.y abovt stito of eMo .ct? A . lMat ws ooe ot two ar.as, thst's o.rroot. • Q iotor on. I Mliovo, after yao b.am assooiatod vitA pr. 96011 in this oss., you s.t with so.o ot tbW othot •xpects In th• cast. Its that tiqbt? Dr. sahwsan, for •xaaple7 A Yos, Dtf tchMsn. Q And that was the initial at.tinq vith Ar. sde11 and tbo otb.rs that was in horuary ot 19841 A The very lirst tiaa I oet Nr. Wt11 st ali would be r+eotuary, 0840 0 And that was In oonnoction with this ass, Ars. Clpo11ono's ease# the`one -- A lllat's otts00t, o-,ind i Mli.v. Mrs. Clpslisns psMd .ver to Ortobsr os . ttN, rlott a . TMatss slot. .•. so Iwt first ia.olvmsnt ia the os.s ono before Nrs. Cipotiorve died? A nat's riobt. Q Oid you ev.c •xasina Nrs. Cipollono? !Itlt,LI• T. LWYS, C. s. R. & aouNs K. sav.rvd, c. s. a. -4 , ,
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I r ! ~ 4 s 0 7 • ! lo 11 12 ~. 13 14 25 li 17 lt ( tarsls • Ctoss/Pactisb lel2 A No. Q Did Fou wer ..et Nts. C~prllant! ~ No# t tid 11ot. Q You !lidn't even taok at ber Sodlai t.ostds, did you, or* laale! A i bav• a.• a i ittie Oit ot bec .Woal tavords, Iwt. I b.w not .sasissd tbe whole Isdisal roootd and I as ntr.r ask.d to. 0 In teot, Or. M.rri., it you Aad loote0 at those aeaic;oi records, Yoa would know that you were astalen yesterday vher you told Kr. sleskl.y that all tb.' intotMatioa Indicates that Nrs. Cipollonr nwer sooksd less than ow p&ck ot oi9orettes e d&y. Isr+'t tbat [t11btt Isn't It trvo. 0=. N.tris, that Nts. Cipollone's oedicwl teootds and. tn t.ct, htt depositien teatioony show tbat she told boc doctors at tivies sDt only saaRed eight to t.n ci9arettos a d.Y? a I c....b.r askluy 1tts. Malt..c. 19 th.c• oas any .ther taftaation aMrt Mirs. Ctpoll.a.'a.sootci.o. =She said that 10 . A . la' Ms salaal aos:ds, Ws. I/.it.rs .aid. Ls the wwsai . . . seiotM Nts. Qipsllone b.d tca tla. to tta dWda dittaent Mr.bsls that tlM doctors bsd r[itfts iws. I took rAat Nts. CipollotM said Mnd.e oatA !n a a.position takea Iry the otbet silkts lwpets to 1» bec svorn stateant aboot rbat sbe, in taat, saobede y1d I celied on /NljsZ.ts !. LIIXIf. C.t.R. ! a0MYi Ne emmN, C.B.It. i
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c . 1 a 5 .s 7 n varr!• • Cros/lrrcish 1103 that b.cauN t tolt that tbat was the sest celiable dtseriation of obat rbe e.okod iR oorparison to what she •igbt bave told a Metoc at a psrticviar poir,t in ttro. . . MAIN Ct lstl Mitb yoYr lAr io•yoYt'tr st immAy ab0ut . . _ ,.; . .tato a the att iN this oases on. ot thM things that yoY did was yor lNked, at a . .. isR CMRl: Caa I latorrspt /!R. MltilZiD i l1s. i'st COOftT$ Mould rou mind tslliap the jury Mhat you ..an by state of t#o art? i.wYers .ay know but the iuty may aot. Mbat does staN ot the art aeaa, Wltbout saying vhat it i• In this particolar easit T8t MilttidL s What t d.scrlb.d before i,s lAlotsatiou that !s out thtr• in the yubl io do.aio, that was wailable to any •spert, ra.osably arailable to any •xpert that they can 4o and look .p. Nhat it wa that W" out there tAat Mas bein9 discussed ia •olontille and iradical eitelos that •as ot aa..r• to esiettits. INt thlAve that - . , . . wN soNaatily lro.oa• but Atpottant sds" that wis out tb.ag aut wMld Mot omo.ra to p.pl• who Worn spscta in •tht tlald. ftr. t auMrstaad t1Nro is a l*Pl detlati«se but : tried to ssmywrnwtd.. Y![! CORT4 thank you. •.rcy. ItrO larrtshe mlLLT/ !o umtt. C6 s . t. a Jamt 11O r00MN, C96946 %0 , .
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1 a 3 4 ~ 9 war:is • txoss/PsrcisA it1• Q 31o scientitie articles that you r.terr.d to in your airsat tfsti.oay undsr qusstia+in9 bY /tr, tdsil, tAose wrf psblisl+fa artieits. tsA't that trw? ~ . 0'yMa they ver. ..ail.ble to p~opl• Ylre wr. lat.rssted~ in .' ~•,y tbi tepio .t QiPratt. w.oktsd e= tobam aud Maithe ri9btt a Test ttist 's oarrfat. > 0 And that roald include btinq avaiiabls to the Onitfd states Govfrn+aAto to: •saplet lfs, tAat • s oo: t. ct . !od alss said that you looked at ot.pany doossKnrs. ism't it ttae. pr. tarriso that Lorillasd bas pr.dvc.d in this eare onr.r 00.000 dsaosfnzs! A Mfli, Z don't Itaow the a.at. ftwfttt but i do know that Mr. ids11 bas told of that be has pne tltrouph bos.s vpon A •osft aa8 boa. s. . Q /rnd t.r the trorillard d.odo.nts you looked at if, id Moti..ats! . . rMat : ia0w abost St #s tMiss a aat wott St =thosa d..isats b.re aao with tspian so& a.* adir"tlsi.• oi NUsO tslatiMt• Mweb ts Mt tr. ilN. •• . . . . . . 0 •r. Bartis. y.n 1n« tmt .vat if,m sssatah doeuants lroar L.rillard Ws=• prdduo.d ia this ass, don't roa! A Mo. t doe't kaor tbst. 0 Asa rou looked at only s• dacnspts tsv. i.oriilard. ..msa r o uNsao c. s. p. i4AAMt N. •0usT01l, C. s.lt.
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..._.._~.._ ~------------------ Darrts - Cross/tarrisA I 1 i 4 s 4 ttjbtT b I i"'t kaow that oithoce iols 0 i bsliNr• fos said you good Nts. Cipollono's d.positi*oat . . r . . . }. :c. A ' n.t's ootrovt• :~. Q•!!id you good Mr. C1jlslloM'a dfpssltiNlt A , M, t did not. . Q 0!d you good the i positions et arsm cipollfto's-•broth.r or bet sistersT A Mo. 0 tthat sbont ber children? A I didn't know t0.y took their d.positioa, too. •ut it you did, the sasver is, no, I aidn't. 0 Dr. earris, you testified on your dir.ot osaninatlon about liRC, which later bt a..• CTIR. 00 you rem..ber that tostioonyt Yes. lb0ioeo tadustry MasstaA Ooaarittoo, wbioh in 1944 vas vallod CTA, Csunoil !ot "b.oco Rtseatab. 0 /tt* pell Ma you rtad soo* of tAo 1109091 to th• jury. . . :. . • .`;, so l.w t:...b.r tM.tt ~ w,. `lrsb. sen lfas •splOiti*li WMe t OaA't tM" It 110w• bot it wwrld 1e oa tb. iottba" oias. Q d11d tbolt n. Dl.akl.r rostordtY iMd you good otAor portioa$ of this doaument to the Ssry. ' Oo you r...rbr r that? A lo~. t 60.0 a. a. otttt.US t. t.rrta. c4 4 .TONnie N. 1QZiL'TJN. C. i. 1. I I
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1 2 3 ~ f t 7 ! ! 10 11 12 6 13 14 !s 8a«is - Cross/ftctisb if" Q 11esd t bsli..e that is on., two and tltre., 'Many peopl• Asvs asked us what ve are doing ts mtt tkt publia's oanara seousd by tb* r.ant CtOocts. • . ~ f.r.ls the anw.r. . ., •.a tMa tbstt ars tbrs tbia9s. Os yae tommab.r that when Itt. tttakloy sslo.d 7ou to io that? A fos. 0 Oea ot those. nwbet tbre., stys. •ta Qbatqer of the tlNArCb aCtiritits ot the o0mltt.e 1f111 b0 i scifntiot *I aniwpRacbable int.qrity and Aatiaaa r.putte ta addition, tAet• oill bo an s deisory boar4 of scl.ottstsp diaint.r.sttd in the ci9asetto iadustrY. s 9roep •i distinguished o.n lroa osdiciee, science •ted odaoatlon oill be la.it.d to serve aa this bea=d. tb.sn scientists will advise tbe ooiwitt.• on its ros.arab act i.iti...' 00 you tos..b*r roadinq that to the Svey y.st.rdeyt A =os•tdoe p~ Ors garst., r1a !s Clarence Seek tiittlot fta.aos Oooh tiittlt v.s sje.ttiolst. !ni M1?Md: t t' ll IMA/e WMO Vatsl. b0. lab "=:O I mks tmt Wo• !~t MZlNtsf ~ NaY I oontiaw7 2•ll 1/ait. Q l1taN, go alNad. : , I
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! . 1 2 3 • - • Yacci• • Cross/Parri.b ltl? Clsttnc. Oook Littlt vas agoaotieist. S. tit.t was pr.sidept oi. i tbink, the OnivorsltY of Nicbiqsno it we p bach to the twenties when be was inoiv.d in tbo .npta1 a aftaroot, in ti. Ws t1wri was a isvs.At wAoa a aasber .t @*oial rotoe..rs 11ot b9.tLor with . ;,• . . _ ;. . . . •oiextirts aa0 tAey wte talking •bort roaaing a Irrsaa raa and ovorrthin9 1 i/to tbat. = think soae of the salonti.t• tbouqht it vu cartird away and dropped out.oi lt# but he was otiqinallY isom the •uq.nia .ovsent. Ns was int.r..ted ta genetiam and berodity. se then becaoe interested as a blaloqial scientist aAd developed a laboratory in O.t oarbor, A.iaf in Maicb !a was ono of tbe p.ople to fnbrfd atraina of anisal• like ti ee. so they wo ula Ot qaaet i eal lY the oa.f, because ia the late 30's and sarlp •Oa, tbsre vaa a Mr idea when oe t..tfd sios they sbowl• all be rtl.t.d to oaati othtc* dbouida't be all dittetqR. ftsa be stayed isa1 allr as ascioatist seiiy ,. , . . ' . , . . niiu* io that .rea is bar oa:bot op fa Naio.s wtil and .%it,i"Iug tl1raph m• seti r.rest. &rial wbiab tis •- i .l.N• .oostl"y a- lo th. 1lr0+s'he ws also the •sfot/tiv. •ir.etor .f dw haacioan oooittY st Caaat Oontrol rbil• ae was also a laboratory •citntlst' M MauMs p oeotor, the d~arican soQl.tr !o= Csaar Coatcel vu tAat' I-& res":a :, SariS, C. s. R. J014M n. t00M'oN. C. S. a.
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Battis - Cress/!a=rieb ltl0 i s ~ S 6 what later bfesw the AsMrioan Cascer soaietyt Q Md or. Lzctle vas ptesideat .t tratt . . . . . a :.lbse ws a bi0 keatup i. •41 aae Il.rit `asilter. Iwsially pt ri• .t We:ybslr taolwial ar, i.ittle and Mw~~O tM as. b tbe A..rie~ ~nost ~aletr: 0 oua Oic, rVittle was aoseoes vtie Ma. Rae" thte"hwrt the oavntcy as a hiqAlY-qualittea sci.atist of the oioe.t ciedentialss 1sn't that trert A Oe was a vall-resacdfe soieatist, eetr.ct. Q he vaa, In tact, tbM Oratl.r.a who bseme the Wma et the tebacco inavstry research .e.mitte., t!w scientistt A Oogreato tk was in r.ti rasent at the tise aad ease out e! =etir.aent to do tbat. Q rsraqr.pb ane aay., Mft are pledgin9 a10 aa0 an assistance to tlW teseacab ettaits 4At• all phasss of tobseeo ur* and Mealtb. ldis joist tiwaeial ai• viii, of Mrrs., be is ai0ftiea to what is alrady being oeatrtbut.a i .. ~. . ; , X. . ... . . . *" ~' ee rw rss..b.r readia0 that a.tAe jrcY toaterdaYt ~,. ~ , J~s, bs. t i.s.abet ra0inq it,*i. 0- Cos T" se eMat eltar, doctor? _. ... A Te., thile tbe reporter is in the vat. I oorl• sap •.wa. 0 Lst .e rove it a 1 lttle. ob i s. s. sossvs s. .oasm. ce t t t ' ,
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1 a ~ 4 i 11 12 ~- 4. ~ 23 14 1s 16 17 1• 1! 30 ( 20 tartis • Cirosa/rarrlsA ldi! Lsa't !t trot tbat-tkrooqh 1l06 aloost 600 : dittoc.nt setoatists bad been trnded by 99.ata tcoN the Cosnoi= by sab.ca> R.sarrb? - r `• -i roalan't be able to verity t*e od.bsrs tadrpind.etly. . ,. .. . . o Ai.ost a thoosaAd nsabsr ot 9rasts lt.s tiiw amail tor ,.: . - . . Tobrooo bs.ataA. with wts ).d00 attisios 1i.ia! Publi.bo4 as a nsrit of tboss 9caats, lse`t that ttw! A I voul dn't be abl e to ab.cti it iAd.ptnd.nLly. idon' t knov. 0 Isn't it .lao trwf, Or. Mar:is that w..vbect atv..A 120 and 130 •iillon dollars has been granted by ?IRC and CRR ever the years? A I wouldn't be able to check it lad.pondently. I don't know. Not riQht aow I couldn't ab.ck it. Q or. lfarris.. you also spokt a llttl• in roor direct osaoinstioA aboot the AM tRl. do you [o.Mbei that? A fi.. 0'~- And I believe i• the ilis's Uo t+rbroos isdosttY Save a . i, , . atal ot, I thiat, abon $14 .illioe to the /l..rioso Ilsdiaal .:1. . . L . . ~ , r ~sfisst.tsoa for $rants t.r the PIrtaos ot scrhi" .iQsrott+e asking sod Iealtht A lrs. 11bat Oli Rlil son I oan ooti!!r and r40I..b.t _tbat. Q !1N Ai1A RR! 1Md a•ciantitia odvisory oo..ittosf rluoh Wu to dharde of deciding who dot the won.p? ftri.t.tS !. LMIS. C. I. A. a SoAMc M. .ooaroaa. c... a.
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C. I a 3 4 ! • 7 a 23 24 !s dattLe - Cress/hatrisA 1,911010 A Correct • 0 •ci.ntist• eaao to that oo~aitt.e and applied for aoaoy. l4is is tWo kind of tos.aor we Voold liti" to ee, and the vsmitto. wald Maide tt tMtr amrld pirro tA.m t0e soa.yt ~: .. . . ,., . . . A -. us. !M oommitt.o •xaei.cd ditootio.. 11rior wro latorostod in "-a that .a.oittoe did oar, v.nr ilttla on MnOtt. 0 0 okay - but tbat comittr., rr. r.rtis* was not oade up of ..abers of the tobaooo iadusttr* was It? A Nc bave to 00 over the a.os and I could tell Yon who tbs tobacco industrp chose and vbo it didA•t. Q Let tis do it. yi t.t of al l, lot oe ask you, that osami ttoe was appointed by the board of directors of the AMA tRl, not by the tobacco Industryt A i don't lanow wbo appointed tbm and 2 don 't knor who the dt ra et or a Met f. Q do.m of tt• smbtrs ot that soritt.., ot. A•rtis. Mett tmrAiT• ot tro AorvoR ieAOtalt• AdMrisdeY easittN in 19640 .. li/1!i tmt trolt h:-.xa.Alo, Ot. MlAMt . .. . , •J9• : . ,. - . :16se to ws a r..btt ot the WIos Oos.rtil• Adri.orr A • , r. . . Oeirittoe. t osa4 tMtsOc[ uM0fz fM Wu oas *t fte "ople that t,ho tob.oeo industry •p.cittoslir proposed or not. 0 Or. Asarlfs Wrrattar, is tbat Aar you pronomnee it? J !ilLi.I9 '!. LIMs, C. e. R. aSOAM M. ooossoh , c. s. a.
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ' - - - ~ - - - - - - - - - - f 1 : 3 4 i ~ •atris - cross/larri.h 1o01 11 Wmtt.r. 0 e. oas on the 1964 toeqson 6oseral's OoMittoet A Oorroot. t 0 11ad .e t1W sai.ntitia .dri.etl evr.itto. t.r a am Altr? a 'atnQt. • 0 thf:rsr ~ewoc.t 0 Or. M."iM Cashuse vas on the ANA att eo..itt..t A18A q.f a'oawit tee? A 0c . Ainqss would be one of the statt of the ANA* not aete what his oualitio.tions in0.pesd.ntiy as a sai.nt i st wert. 0 ica iiesqsr was on the AhA AR! ooe'aittea, isn't that true? A Osn't reosbsr his beiaq on the iurqeon, 6snotal's CoA1ei t tlt. 0 1 don't believe he wa., 2nu're riqhtv bvt he was on the sagoen'• C.neral A.port. : 3i tos. 2k vas t,he oaf tes tob.om vantod oo the .riqiA.l O'.lb.at wt. w.a vbo vor• fror y wll•tAoaot lot ia tbai c 916146 at tti. tlsoI a RitM Mo no.:d to og. Cwb.or,, i Ma't IDev las osalitiaati~as. Q What about the otaers3 , A !hs others vsro distinguished p.rroas. .anc ts t. t.Wrs. t. S. A. Jo+UfNe M. .ao.!'oMR c. s. *.
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1 ! 3 4 i 4 7 • f 14 11 12 ~~ . 23 14 1S h Mactts • Crou/larrlsa 1902 Q rov, Or. Marris, you k4w taat at tM ooadssion ot the AMA iMr projtat, the AM pubi isAad their tNulta of its work -r a ss.aarr of Its wo:kI is that trwt . ~... . ' ~. a *s. I tead •Irlat Nal OL tt. :..: . .~,. . , . . 0.2t vas di*.trilwtod lr.e to ..atr libcarr. .v.ry sei.atist .M .odioal libcaty is tho Oaitod ttatost 4 A lMs. It was ln .W 1lbca[y. 0 . Q It vas also distcibut*d to aMybody slse ia the Onit.d itat.• wbo ask.d for a copy? A I don't knov tbat, but orrtaialr ia wy limacr and I bad it in il7i. p Md tbs AM MRr opscatod cospletely laispadently of tAe tobacco iAdnstry or any tobsooo empanyl i• that trwf u I lu+oo of so direct control st MAat t/a0s of 9raats were distributed by tbe tobacco M.panAod. Q os. M.rrl., Mavo yos w.c Iroard the aa.o tcast s.ctraN lerardt A M., lb.ro 1o a Ore loward MM i.. Kstt Ms.bac a the + ftettoa. /Mdisal Assoaiattoa aQ I lMrii.v. be w. i • . , Mttispoua.nt. U it's the A..m ete award is ~#! the .. .,. wstitlal iw ft. S.er biadors 9940 iat rMb. 0 eid yo. Mw !As depoaitl.a W" talos !a this asat A Mo. I do Mt. Q /1oce ros awaro that Oc. Mward said tMo:o was so iAliwnev ucoot or iadic.ot by anY tobacco oo.pam on tbe !w fl.L ts !. Ls>f is. C. f. R. sarMSt a. .ovs+or. C.I. R. ,
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I i 3 • ! 7 r.cri• • Croas/O.rrish, 1001 AM iA aay way? A I se..r tead bis d.poaition and outsidt ot bis dtposs tios, t Mo uldn• t lrnow u!st said tb+tt. idoA• t Q! Irsl i.r• ia rorr ai tfat 4isti•sar t.o wontia+ed a trertiibrd dseasat .b.ot " and os.tioaed th+ laat tro:ulsrd .t . hsd e.on dol.0 sMa vocR with ottalyatol do you ts.e.bst tAat t A Us. i do. It1t. OARRISNs Your Ronot, this is a 8oeua.nt itos Lotillar!! tila. I viil idsntitY It by the nu.bet 011o0t3/. 0 of. rarris, I would 1 i1K to read a portion of this doCus.nt to you and I have a question tot You. Last July ve reo.ivo0 four .asPisa Ot oSPoriwntai catalYst ttos 7ou. Skipping a wnt.noe. !1,• aspt• oontainis9 eacbsn elaok aad palladiar baa been tested by •ddln9 tho sistors throu4b our regular Ro aAttel tobasos lcopain9 oigeccttoe &ad 4elloot1 al the tar. . . ~ !ra Itost a.oto t.port0 vblob feo toevatdrd to .e sad which ve tietioo0 tod.7 lrAioot.o'thot eke, ltliaii.m rather tRan :~ . . . . - .> ~acoasi011th. b.w*"w os.t,.at• INS "Oroastd It . . , ~rbsta~ltially. ikippiu7 to tAa lasr seatonoa 8 Tdus, oestrorY to what th4 supplier o0stulattd• the a0d1tloA ot this OntalYits, which is ehsraattrl.tic of the group. ircroa.rd the MVM:e t. `ais, c. s. R. s 8OAwrt N. raosroM, e. s. R.
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I ! 3 4 i Batcis • CrNsltaftlsb 1904 polrsyolla IYdtooatbon is anestion i atb.= thaa dcac.as.0 Lt. Or. tattls, atd you review tliis d00usoAt tA otoparatioa tot rswr testimnyt . . . . . . ., ~. Ms. ,!!N sas I cwi.v.d vaa the lottst ttos Or ..Pstsflt F... . . . . . to a9lob.r• Industries ssYLal,w a• wt I.t tMoi.ble results .e plladliw. - k . . ••, Altkos* I Wo aseet sstn this lsitioslu oa., I tlroalAt it was appropriate to sbow v?at i had ..ea aonasrning tbat. Q Otft ltattts, I would like to talk to you apsvt rost osnoet rloek. I brli..e you said the clock stacts to lt4l, that is vb.n, apptortaatoly vb.n, Mts. Cipolloos •tattrd to woke t A Cotteat. Q so it's trw, isn't it, st. Mtcis, that -• lIR. ROBLL I May I go up there? 1!!• owtls OsRtatellr. •. ~ .: e'~ il40 !s trst sa ONasrt alosk, tl*tt . . .~ . . . ~rt + .. . .Q :To• are war• tsas ts4lay tlts. Cipsiious'. Osposstton that it wis i• i!N that bec =athtt Q1o! .t a stroW ti9ut! A I Mq't sNMmbir tbat. 0 or. Nactis, it you "n •1v.- aw a tosgb ld.a tros Wketo r you ar. 4-0 vbsce would 1646 be an lrouc oloak here? i.1t. 1zlLLIS !. LMte. Co a MO1i M. •Odtl0li. C. iA. m -4 CD r v m . 0 . .
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,. ,,; 1 ! 3 4 ., .f 4 7 sarci• - Cgoss/rattisb M$ JI ft do that, I vould have to have an oWmate ot, A.d « ptrooa ..ok.A ttoa 1641 to '`t tor tivo roarrs ao rtsk ot lw9 aaoer ot dylaq iA 1ft1. 0 , i1wr. Or. Nsctts -- A .. , A i dos't two that intorr.tloa. what would be 0"I .n oot •stl" roo • qerstlos •bost it •syrody bad oulr ~ . . s.oksd till ittts we wili l.ane t1iW islook :. !t 1o toc the .ossnt. 1 want to kaov vAer• onoo two o'clock is -• vA.ce is 19460 as you have dravn tAe cloct? You have indtcatod obec• 1969 !.. rou have lndiosted where iKl is. IJost vapt to knor rboto 1946 is. U It'• so.+Nrb.c* •rodna one or two o'cioak at the sost. Q At the most. b!t aoMla be ltss than ra. o'aloak uybt? A iomwDec• •roaad .nr ot tvo olook. Q Okay. ilK. Ao where would iNy 1e? A`Y~tt tiosl• Mwo to be to twe tijbt of th.t, wt very AiNS. ` ~. •. •r .s • OsN ovoo~t 0 Mbat abort 1fsl? iK) rrovld be the resul t o! woklao toc 1! FracsM ls+c Mlfi.2t !. Lrf Z s. C02011. a .loollrt M. sovs?otl, C. s. R. I
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1 : + 4 S t 1 ~ ! 10 11 12 ~,. ~- 13 14 is 17 ~ 21 !! =3 ( !S Aatris - Ccoss/tarcish 1lOi vooia bs alittl• bit psst three o'aloatc. o Itu9bt about tbece? 0 Mbat abost l!!f t . It vowd be attet tbat, lnst paevbat atteo tMat.: .r . a.'t ..ke this •saatly preelse8 tr.tes oAy I wod a aleek rath.r tMa etaot osist oo the ai rale. Q Nhat about 1957, doctor? J1 1l37t Yoe'te getting down to the bottom oce.tty "ah, so si x o' clock. Q Right about heret A loah, let's say, six o' olock. Th• evidence ea this bsowes more pc.cis.. I should add, as yov get eloset to 1lil in t.cas of what the dsta on oessstion of smokinq toc a pfcaoa l ikt ats. Cipolloaw would allow as to .ay is eWbtca aaa, thetefoce, exactly wbere you rrode vin it awa. ttss batdet hpta ft aws stliec tn , tiWta tsas a[ the aitnal aareeas w ba.o areat Qsitinq aM trt etlo.ts •t g• Mb M, I.ats 00. • , 0, -Mwt ysrt ta.r tt«r reading 11ts. aalletN'd i.poation that 1946 is WM.n she Nst bec b.sbaNd. Nt. QtNlloaet A !ss• that's olTreet. Q M4 re„ hiw tcoa reading that dtpssitioa that Ece" tb start Itt. Ctpoiloae asked ao= .ot to Wke, tightf Nl1.Llt !. Li/is. C.O. R. . 1oAlfwa N. NWtTOlR, C. i.11. t I t :
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• I 2 3 4 i I • t• 20 u 23 S• ( !3 earris • Cross/tarrish 1"7 d tknov that tram tbe start b. said that he 0idn't like that «N A1olild. Q And rou lreow that is 1946 waa the first tis. Nr.. Ci polia! .rt,ttr. Cs psilos.' 4 a! st.r iAa *sbe told Nr a. Ctpollose s.t to s.ok., cigbtt '~ A rlbat I M.'t s...rber •psaltlsallr. . ~.- Q 1N7e me kAOV troo toaaiu9 Mrs. Cipollaae's deposition that 1947 is when srs. Cipollone was pcegaant for the first tiee with her asught.r Naris, tiqkt?' A 1'11a t's OOrreCt • y'! i. p And you alio know from readinq the d.po.ition that lii7, iorin9 that preOnssoy Mc. ' Cipolloam and !bw dootor vrged Nrs. Cl p4l la+e eot to aoke t A tor. OnR of t!K doctors d1a. fae et4ot toatoc duicina her lalor aetusllr gave bee a oiIarett.. Q Aa• osn ot tbe doctors srgri bot tat to e.oke t A lb~t's A~[~Ct. Q As2 1tts. Ctpsliee either 4sit .r wastaatiallr our down .,. !s_.bwr sssua2 dYrtno that pr.v"hoy. tsA't ttat ktrt? 0 tse't po lanw t1a.t'tiwr lrst MptsitiM! ••- MAtt i tewmet trom INr Qtpsitlss w• tbat .bs tried : . . to aItt dIfw kMt NN Moldn't. Q lbsa I" know trom ioaaiag the Npesitioa that atter Maria was bers 1trs. Cipollone starte4 to aooke s9aia! A I eos..ber e.r •pecitioallr u2is9 that durfag labor sbo
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( . 1 ! 4 f , aarsi. • cros./hrtisb 1M really v.pt.d a ei9.mt• aaQ tbe dsator saLae •tuc., • and vav• 1Nr onse bnt - .o it would be ow.s betoco th• babr vas r0ts. .0 -aMt altiet the aby vas Mrp .*e statad to a*oke as swb as sm Md b.foro! .. q.+ {. l7T A ft. - artaialy was wioicino aftes at MMbY• Y+s. J 0 19530 i• "oe or. Mfnda pblished lii. Si.diays tmt we're hRard so such abodt over tbt last tow days, ciqRt? A lbat•s oottect. Q And I think rou told ns on your ditoat ss.alnstton that when pr. 1f?udor'a study cow out tlmc• was auite a bst of pubi icitr aboar it, tiqht? A lbore vtco articles tN s+oa* osgoin.s, oortoct. 0, Iacl udi Aq A.ads t's 0i qs st ? A !ba t' s rl gbt. Q !+o waiob Mra. Cipoliw+f suescciad. !od know that fco* Aer d.positioa? A I ds't reaarOsr tiat. 0= to 1955 /tta. Cip.llese ws } cogntut ov.is: tl*t? ~ 3 Melt ta.amb.r eaotir, vAiat dsto it wa. 4: . ~. 0 ar.. Cd*sileaf Oido•t tc7 to quit w1sa9 6arii9 that ~etu.RO7, ti• shot A Mot that I temrlt, 11e. . . Q 1ls7 she was VC.4aaat a tAirO tie.s right? A ft.# sbe vae wrt9naat a third ti... I don't t.oeaber~ s.M:s s. MWza, c.8.R. & johnes s. .on.rar, c. i. R. I : 0 t , I ,
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I a 3 4 f .4 Narri• • Cross/farti.A 1lOs the ta.ot Yost. Q And you resaber tter ceadin9 b.r aposition that she 44 not quit ot eut daw4 dutin9 that frAqa.er! .,0 04: .• Q r Moir. Ot. Marti.. Yw 1now. tta rosdleo Itts. Clpollo"' a Mpoiitl.a that tbs first tlsi d* as.k.• s`osillar• alpt.ttt was i!!d. [ight! A Tbst i• correot, Q What tiSe on tb• canvtr clock is tbatt A sAat would be saa.tide a- well# riqbt around between ten and li O'cloak. a Aiqht aorat A That's about rigbt. At this point, the oslculatl.ns would be -- let's see it I can oet it •saottr. tes, it's between ten .nd ii o'oleak. 0 Ilbat tis. vaa it on the aanots olock, Qt. Itarris, 19771 a T"t Moold bt a.wiaq olosor ls. Gos.vb.re oroand 11 •'oMlc. , oOdit ot ioolt , , ~ ..:~ .~ at. M.rtlst rMst tiw. vas it Ou-tMe oa.osc eleak ta ..: . K A lhat wrl• re sibalobt or rotY sleM to ss f.lobt.. Mbilo ,.. Ma. C1pollorK'• ana.t va. dis9W.td by her 40st.ars la the late •aser et .atly tall .f 11ll, 1t is, sit taet. .mosivibso that tbw oanc.c was aotssilY pet.eat aad !R?LLu t. LMis. c. s.R. b .TOiAXlfs N. N00NM, c... R. i I 1 11
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1 _ 3 4 5 • !3 •a=tts • Crosahrattisb 1910 orvwinqi though it would aot have been e.teotsd apd no doctor would know to the beginning of the sa.e yar. p liukllY. Os. aactis. Oos kaoar tcw Nrs. 'Cipoilone's deposttisa 4• fas dlsoMSiisq N[s• Cipriloa.~s sasr olth Nr. 2441 and Ms. Naltoi s that attot Mr VMs4 the o.AOet ras •iagmos«d, Ilts. Cipsll.M sWrivad 32 motMat tlobtt A Ohe died i*n oeksbsr, itR1, oo • Utlle Mret tbt.e r.acs, that's aotteot. M, MRlsb s lhat's ali the questions I bave. "e COOttt 1 Ne' 11 ta1ce our asd•att.cnoon cease aov. Mbere is Mr. ideil? Can Me aosplete -- ace yos going to have re4iiertT M1c. lXLLe I think tAare to apod obsnc.. It say run over live ot t.n rinates. "R COtiFMI 1te' ll toeo.e prooptlY at f ive of touc. "t C6tRY t Ali tis.. (Was[ospotr the 3nrx is mwe0 aod there i• a . . .. !'OR MRtRS Ail fis.. Z 1lAe followin9 takes p'laa oat of t0e pcissno, of the jrrt.) 11s. IfoLliM dvdqs. ve 6we iasetts toc the 3ury Oinders. Rrisr'te all pteparod but we didn't want to put tbes iato tbe book tiitkoar obeckiaq with rbu ficst. MYLLII T. 160186 C. f.1t. & JOARI! M. MO02T0lt, C. s. it.
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"i CaDRt # Rw. tlw at.adaets iooktd at tbast Ni. /IALStRR 1 lbhr have apios ot tb.m. MR. Rtb11Ml1 Ao have "d vo$w Oot •bj.attons to . . , S 0 7 4 N~IIs ~t t`~. • , . • ~ 4 !MR OOqRSt Ratkot Msa put tR.. is the Moka ~ ..' ~. . lot's'•oontrort the iwitne.. vit,M It: tt tlwc• is " * .b3.oti.a, rs•ll il.al ritA !t. NltO rARR i 0!t a 006 otbor la u.o kte pi*a q iratt. t. lblt Q00RTt !ou' V. qot your asld t car Ms. Onbat You ars barred tr'oo any aidlbar ooatsroaoa. Ns. MsMM I was 1oia9 to ask you. Nc. Ooba aad bs s v it.. 11* 1aikod the CMart. ZJwt dLIY as ditwAdaata• oshibit tot id.atttiatios l=02, ta 4600 v wat to rotor to At iat.r oa. R!. IN1GTitae Mouid roo 1ilo.- a sopy tot Yovr Nooort IUt COOR! I los. !Ns aaut $ all tln. llb a9 tama staa !s the pr.aeao..f ws tlb. t&liwl ~ ~, 4 v . , .•~ ~R lt~Ot1't b1MN r! ~Nt~. ar. 8.rcls. dtppR •! RA 1R 1!.• sossslstAo staed. .« ts :. sarrss. e. s. s. s17awus M. .aarrow, c. s.,L
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i _ 1 a 3 4 ! i ANOt"CT tXANIpATYON 9T ItN. I=Ll./ 0 oset.c, Osat to the aloek. . M. ~ • . ~ :, oc. r.crls, bas*• opon rwr s.vl.+w ot Nts. Clpiloa.'s depisition la teis ~.as., ot• yo• waa as to , ., WheA she Mgtu to start ssokiat! A 1941 or 1l4t. trb.a sho Was it r.us. r10, Ma0 Mouid be about 19419 0 Tbett s s a date placed up on . bar e, 1 f4i . Oo you know Wbother or not Sony aaa Nosf Ctpollone wre born on that day -' wero s±accis d on that date? A ret• tbty 1/er• .aRiled !a 1044. 0 Then there is a date 1l47, when ata. Cipolions was pre'nant tiitA Macie. •r• you aware ol tAstf a r. s. 0 lbect wss soet stat...ats eoawiAla' ob.t iator sation bse Cipollone c.o.ivee in 190 tcow her aoators. Os you ts.wbat that, tte. ~00 IIc. htrtsb asted you . . j. r,. . ` . 7. ~ • .. . . :'' o Ora Fw tell the wcr V'A.t „ur a0ec.tsadlas,, O.sed up.& sa. ctpsll.a.'s d.ooaitioM, is aMort U.s st..te..ots that M,e coaieod lsaa Iwrr eoator b.ok in 1l47t A diW tostltiea that tM dootoc, oan ot tAW doctors told Mg tbot tbe oigarett.s could b.cs tb• MbY. NYLi6lt T. bNIs. C. N.A. a "AMML Il. •0OeTOri, C. f. P. v OD N ~ ~ v ab
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( 1 Z 3 • s 0 22 23 24 25 Rattls • redlteot 1l1s 0 Dr. Datrts, in your reviev of hose Cipollone•• deposition, did you see any .tateoents by Mc ooewtninq vhat, tt aor, iAtiusnot adrertisinq bad so •er wotlaq b.ba~ior? ` t,. Nft. liruuMtrs ob~.otioA, yosc D.ooc. ,. t. • !at CdYM Ac• vo lisitlaq !t to a tZM D.r;lodz 0 Ifa• i0ltl4t FtN1 1041 f11co1/q11 1t1is• Ka. tWtARLlY e objeotion: Itay we appro.oAy !R6 OOrR'!: CertMinlY. (The toilow3nq takes place at sid.bst.l NR. hLsAt.LtYe Could t ask the question be read back? iTbe aaestion is read Dtaic.1 NR. eLChRt.CY& Nov, we've already bad tertiAony troo this vitnsss that he is not an espert on •dvettising. Me have had ust 1aoAY trom this vitniss that he to not an espsct on ad..ctisinq. We have sst tawrn this vitness' d.positson on advertisloq, nrs U M.* Iwd Irol• MlS9el9 out tt-M Od it Ms eapect s.2o:t baa ladiat.d ttist fe was in .My ray Doioq to Ustitt aboot •erestisi.l. , ,,. . . ,. .- D.oondly, we are i.tussi" t. the sitMstlee that .ooscc.d thersqt 00 four and ..e-ait Oy$ ts.t tLie witness testitied on airoct •xuiMtioa, Mbtab to that this ! witness to being asea by the plaiatiEE as a VehIele for cranking lnto the teaord in sdvan'a of roai ovidenca0 every Mssd.tt !. 1.wtt. C... R. a souet s. •ouszoa. C. s. R.
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1 i 3 Marri• • rodiraot 1914 littls bit and piosr ot tbia4s that the platntitf thinks ar• Ai ol. Mw, t canaot testify we say for red tiqbt Aov that the aawsr is Mrs idoll an• t1is. Nsltetcs vill 9ls, they'll s.r rw did it M*tso.rtsiais.tiM. se did It on i , . sross-sa..ination to a lwts• sstost Mara w lwd so e -~ ,alt.rMtio• iat to do so aftsr ta ks.a of tbstiio4I that this oitfta qwO dsrinq air.ct oaa8instion. I svbait to your boaor that it to absolutely i.proper to dse this .xpert, a doetor, ana aA •oono.ist at bast, to testify on rt4iroat •nsiaatlon '4es a subj.ot that to boYond the saope of his di r.rt, bstoad his oompetona .aa bsYoad his qral itteation. T9e DOOSTe wbat's the 3astiEtesltion lor the question7 1tM. t06t,L1 Nhatos the Jwtif so.tion ot tbea askinq in 1lSS* tkero •re newspaper articles about tbe Myodsc •tsft, $rst the lrstitie-stton alast them Nylag, did rou . , .. , . . . sMN WMaI lo tlio M0ai tisa Where fta Ct*oUsas diduft w itM. r.okiw*t ilfst 4oss that Mrnr• to N with bist t+on •. 'lNro isag.t they op.n.d the aeot s this tsw. •s !st OOOItI =t t#!s to s.rslt to lias. liis naate WD.t sAe said, it doesn't 9o to bis •ptaiea. ilt. sOti.L v M+ i th.r did tMat, dv4*. '1!t t01!!!' t MsYbe sot, btlt `- . } n n.LYS s. La:a. e. t. a. 6 Sorun9 M. .on!'roa, c. s. R.
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1 tacgl• • c.dir.at 1915 MR. lsiLLs !oc a lioltta petposs. !!!e COOSTe I didn't bavt ox objootion to tbat, t 11W• !t to Wss s . ...~.-:.. i , 7 U .. !~. totW~ ~ t t i.d it is*scsat i" that tb.y a.k the ,~. . . qM.stiea....tt'• okat ter tb.o. !s ask tiw potatien but rbsA s wh.v siitlat Owsttoss, th.n they say you diibs't ob3.at, ~ sr. 9Oo11: tb.cotor., poa osn't so absad wd ask lioited qnastiofts in this 69640 MS. MAL?6R8s What Ls going on h.r* i• that vC ew.: not Introduced Most CipolloM taetuallr to the jury rot. What they have att.aptoa to do io but a biased piaturs ot b.r Into tbo jury through tais vitMS!' aoutb by •xasJnin9 bi• about bot deposition win0 the quiss of tMo oano.t clock. A21 w ac• doing is asking thr.o sr four qwstioAs that rebvt directly tbtit sttt...nta about MarAin99 supposedly given to her by bsc hwbaad that vtco iesaoourato. tab.w out of eeestsst an• "ttiss ebs back Ls oosteat so that Uo srcp .as't oastinr" to tlUslt this vow through the .a . Mst *qlrht w siM ot t.n do" b.isro tb.Y boac a4W rors , . . { Nrldiaa aboet Ws witMts. . ., , tt's very Pcoyodieial to ss wa they opeatd tbo dooc. •aria asybodlr two bor. I think that's appropr,iat., owt "e OOds'Ps lt it coi.too to tbo varnia9s ec what s. R. .Rrr.L ra :e t.eKtsf c* s. a. a soaMa K. .oarroa, c& i t r
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MarrLs • ctdttaat 1116 fls. 1tdLltRS I Tbe aarertisla" do r.late to tu.t. ,ddgt. Ut wbat abe stated !a her deposition directly relates to Mt tha.rstsdino, 1ot .rareM sa eC the health f i ,~ . . t .. . . tisks dvtisg tbor. tise psrlodr that they peiato0 ~ost on the o.neor aloek. It's oorr b=!e!. ~.. . . . .. Ut Cid9tlj N11Ma it os«e ia tLto%O this WitasssT \ .' Ma. ttliLW Why doe s the .tbot st af! ao.s i n! I don't think it's in thei t Moutb to ssy tnst what we asked his and it's okay but you can't ask bis any aueattons in tbis r.qatd. Me'rehot aukiA9 toc his opiAion u to vhat latlrrnoe advatisesonts had on bet. !b. Q.wstion ws verX sp.citio. !A` Oonlrrs What she ssid ia Aot dsposition. 1tR. iEARttd7 e i object tot Li4gett* pa. ttALnltS t lhat's what they dld. MR. [UMtY ~ OA tbe 9counds of tM best o.ideOCt rni• and uosrsyo fto be.t tiiMase l. la t1i• eepositloA. atrio a0vmroat. . ` `` LN, fssosdlr, bo's being s.lae to gooswnt "at be sair on .. . . . , . :.., ,. 40 r I . .. ,,~ . ~:. Op3sioa. t's goiag to ewtai*a the *wstioN. Ntttiauiarly, ,- oerr w"r. au rodi r.ot. It t sn st.s tbeuo ebi s o.ldsaa ! srian't oe.. oMC. NR. lOiL` t Can I at lout ask 2hio what MYLi.YS !. LwflS. C.2.R. ms m0!'!. d:loss lt torsa a oaats for his s aoAM K. •on.:oa. C. s. s.
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1 _ I 4 5 S 7 I so:ris - sediceot il17 intowation -- wUat lntorsation he ceviewd ia this case ptttlsent to waat lbny Cipollose oaid to Aoae Cipollone? lr.y ogard it oP. VAer s.id, didp't r. saY t,k.t M Alae't like wok1M? Ilw I esWt ii tbrongb .ad osk his the watisa what vas i• thoro Is that toptd? , . . , . .,. ' Ist OORTs Mdat,$a ptt:pM 6.0 !t Nt'.*? ~ AR. AAlLL~ qA. Psspoa to to eit[1Ey the ` sisoonwption tbat they've acoatod. rtt COURTs If it'• sawothia9 specific that they celetted to on ocoa but aot opeqiaa up this advettisiag fssue. MR. eot.?. t Ok/1y. tsbe lolloviag takes ploae Is the pte.esoe of tbe JucyJ• Q ot. Asttis, Nr. Patrisb asked you os# qu.stieos about vhether ot aot Itose's ootAtr and ftay liked Aors's Moking. Ybot iRtotr.tion do you have aeearoing lony'r anooras ab.ot Aose's ..okisg or AoM Clpslioo.' •.otbec's •~.., . ~to.a. akont het wokin, back i• the it4o.? Cipil.ro' • A.psiti.a, ~a ot1~a o.nsa.. ,. Q M• rbae !p[ot~..ttoa is tbat, air? S. .. AVM osly s.eM iator.stiea I would kwo Is thtoogh Nrs. . A t'bat they tMeipht it v.ao't lady-llke to sookes that j, ~ J tcer tW old oouatry that's tbt'kied of thing that wooen ~ . ~ •id* cc W Ma tLLrs T. t.Wis, C. a. R. i JOi1NtNs 1t. !!OO mfi, C46116 7 i
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1 .. -. •..~.. •atsis - seditoat lOle 'lbst's wbat t tursabet s 0 ls tA.c• aaY statement !a 11ra. Cipolloae'i depositloa that roe sar that celletto• that sw .. ws arare of Var prad.rr Wabs. •spes im.ntt - 14- V 'f y 4 ~ • a, tt. I.rtLs: !n 11cs.•CltoiIeus's dsprsitlsn. vbta ad sbe . . . . ., . .. . . . a s.y sbe first Mpn to brre so.e "so.ras abovt Ue bealtb haisrdr of CigitettA sookin9? ~ I think that would be after 106i, wken there was the watnin0 label oa the p.ok, the titst •urgeoa Qenrcal' e •acninp l.sel. t+ Md did Roa Cipellone oake any otstoa.ats tA L.c dsposltion that you oar roVll •s to OAat irtoarNtioa she t.otiv.d sitar the warainqs on the Msakages of ol4atetit.• tt00 anY tobaCOo OOlljal4As. [ePlfsfAtatiVes. MR. RRARMtis t objsCt. Nt. dLUCtYI Obj4etioA. MRs lNRRUt / ObjeOtiM. . ,. • • , • , •,.. . . a~~t in rWRi S iaid"M . . . . Uake "y stste.eats ooaates" ber , - .~~ . bawl swsts of atstesats briat MdR 0y %M lotisNo : ZAStiteto KAhR AsMelstiRA si9 IsOsaOO aiptAl sst l~R. ~.dAQ.tT t Olr~eotloa. 1.... i!. RRRit!! s 4bjeetl00't. , r ~4 !n C00R't / I' 11 lot bls ansver that yta et s0e co J WzLLtt Ira iilSS p C. j. R. _ s. R. i0l1l1st IG IMMsSOil, CD , : ! : x , . ,
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f 2 3 i : 6 7 14 25 Aarti• • r.diaat 1!1! A Yoa, slte did. 0 ana vhat did he sbe saY about otat.oent• tuWW by the Aaoc4ation of ltibrcvo Catpsoles oc tobaooo o"praies la J.walt k • lth. hAltRms OhitOtion. R .t . MRg w4iAR`RYS Oyactioa. w !d• OOORTs saMO on time period or Jrst lr qen.ral? /ht. DLPJ4EYt in part on time period. !eC COORTs !lY the ti.e petiodo trior to 1466? KR. tDiLt.t Yea. 0 trior to 1966 . A I aon•t know •xactlY ohen it vas, but I do r.cail the subiect. MR. DLuxt.6Y s Yo ur donot , i t!r. doe an • t knov oxaetlY +rben it va• then th. 3ury.laoldn't boat hiR ansv.r. vhieb say 1aol66 ~- Td! CAlR!'t ia,tainfd. Sattis, tb.ro'8, bo*h ssa Onsrttoor asaatNtM your , ,... ~lltifttioa. •• a ..diaal doator. : CaA ro tell tM Jur) vhat tYpD of sondl tlolta you treat patlonti !or? A Oh, just about arYtMlaq, oxcept Z don't operate as a surgeon and t•o .ot a p.aiatrieiaa, I wouldn't take aart of !Ylf.`1S T. LfNIS. C.6. Q. i J0ArMs s. tOOST4M. C.i. R. v : Ln m V 00 F+
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1 9 2 3 4 _ 4 7 • t 10 it 12 ~ 13 14 ;S 16 17 to st satcis - redirect 1l20 babtos.. It would be in th. arta of adult iat.rnal ..diclao, so !t would be e.nar, hsart dtaa... 0 Do riu treat pati.nt• with aa,oot? . i I a p Oa yw t:at p.tioats w1th tuspi tatotr pr.u«rs, lYnq ~nbl~s? A 011• ris• p And for bov aanY y.rrs have you booa doing tbst, ait? A It I don't oount lssdical •ohool, but I oount the s nttrasbip, which I vousd disooant, tbtt'• going to be 14 ritata. Q Ooctot# there's been a lot oi talk la this Camt by tA• defendants as to how such sonoy you received !a, this case. i•m going to show rou tboae transecipts IMtoo l+sll the jI/rY vMt tOtM tralltctipR• roptfsfnt, doOtor• would you ploase? Ooator, please tell the JurY what those ttansrtipt t*ptesent? A lhoae at• d= days of ay .woro apositis testi.ony. '~ NR. IILM11tt.tlt voo; li.pot, aaY w apptosoli the , a• .. • . ,•i . beAwf? f . '.: •C tlfi. tellovia9 taias olan at siMbat.) ItR, rt.iARt.tt$ botb Nt. t0o11 Aad Ot. sattl. sno+r . +: that Mai! o# tbqe dars v.c• 0110 la the Oovey orse, not this oase. , M. NotL`: Yod'to {pinq to .aka a representation 1!1 iS Ir. LW: S. C. .1t. t JOA1M M. •OOS?Om, C. C. R. , 4 :
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k I ! 4 Matcis • rodiseat 1021 to this tbwct that you teoeiv*d no belp lcos sat4•=s Raisa tot t1N preparation of qwstians aud tbao waan't .n a9re«rswt that the lNpositla+s would be tsral.bod to r.s with the wdststandiao there would be soo• lioitatiaN of tb• deposition iM tbis a." bas.d Mpun tboa a.positloas! ~ M 6t.tbIZKi t'• afraid I dldu't tollov tMat. I tbiat the answr ls yes, i vlll bot M , MR. lott.L1 sbera la so etlott to joiatly defend these oas.., lnsolar as ot. Msrcls Ss conc.caed, betveen you , and oonASei !or 1t. 0. 1ltynolds. MR. iLiARG6Ys Ro, I wouldn't .ake tbat sepceaentation. KR. ioRLLs Mhen it's aoav.nient You'11 Ns1eM the assertioa tbec• i• so.w kind of distinction bstMeen the tvo cases. i1beA there is a subseqwnt det.mN •llott to attack this vite+ess. Mcan't bwe it both vapst vow Ronor. llti OWR?i M.ti, tb. qssstioa's oot i*rpcopoc. !'Ii Mratrl• tMo ebieati«i. , , . 1tR. WRRt.itc :'li witNcar the ay.otto.e ifIN =RllN/ihl takes P1w0n tA twe; ptoMeOS ot the J.lr.$ ~ m V a ~. soe~~ : ~ ~.. p Oc. N.rcis, i want to tiad oot what those tcanscripcs "OD MniGt.* t. f.i11Z1, C. t. R. s SoAJW «. .ousvm, c. s. IK. . : .
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1 ! ) 4 s 9 •attis • tMliRfat !!2= lspiRNnt. Cia yoY tell 1iWt PllsM! A TA.ss are 22 days of sy d.po.ZttoA t.stimony altst yoe uksd Nr" to ptohriis you with a sePott ea •- oa. oi a aWab.c - v ' . •. ' ... • . .t rspotts v.warais9 this .atta ot stat. of tae att. Taat 4 ts. rbat sdioal soi.aso aAe dst.atiats i*a 'eaeral tnw ,, . vWM, vb.t esp.rts ia the ates wt• 4"slMrieq. Aad tYe aetendant lasysts ttar si9ar.tt• Nspanies in this case and a rslat.d oan svOpoeastd as and took .y dtposition, v0iab sk.as that for eight bonrs a day. just as bsrt, i'ts ovoca undet oath .ad ='a asked qustrtioas oAn after aaotbst. And tels is the transcripts ef those 22 •ays, eight Moors a dsy. Q is that all the work that you did. Ooator, lnsot.c as thes depositions ooaettn, thet baiwy, appearing tot tbs.e dlpasitl.not A No. por each and every aepositi.a I an pin9 to be asked ia great detail what I teiak adout tais, tbat, o= .nyttiia9 oosrtas) my .pias.ns aw1selt la geeaal t ay . . . . . -.. , . ~wlltiNti.as. ~ r• ~:. Md la soerr sas ot ttisn a.a thaw• to. K.pe 24 25 !a edruM 1rr iaadin9 rat.clal; ~twt.rlu9 tosaqs t#it I have al tradr tallwd aMat tn i.tieipttil.a that t will be asked abovt it the aat d.y. And, fa IpAstalt anything at all is tai r pr.. 0 Ibrs detail than the esooinationteat you Mw* underqone ' MLG t11 ?. LMt i. !:. S. a. 4 1 0Al11li m. il WiT01ti. -.. R.
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( . A a 3 .14 I I Basris 4b ro4irfot 1923 Det• ls this Court? A: Ob• I was asked Mb.A ibeqan sookiato vbat tt was 1 ike to Woke. ;. . . . . • . . . ~. . Iy . . . i sts asked vbotha everybody la Sy tssily Wb.cMa tpey .r.t bad sny wotctadotalseRa 4i.sv.s. lut. ~t.rd~~s~ odiaetia~. ttt.l...At. Tat COOkTs sustais.0. : ., 0 pf. psrti., teli us approsioatelr tav Vrany itdieal aad scientific articles you v.re esaaiAtd ondurinq t" course ot tbis 22-day deposition Orooess. A wellP tpey "t up to OateAdant•s ksbibit 130 so.ethiAq !n ehe it dey• for tbe deposition in tbis aase# snd I can't resesber what the e xhibit nuabet wss, say it va• another 20 or 30 or so in the other t.n days ia the related aaM, so 130. 0 do you prep.rtd tot these ispositioaso kbout bvr auch tioe did you •pw4 psr deposition in prop.teti.at A J= 0sl1F the dsy Osloto, pos kwa ta apta0 tka vMal• r.y O.i:j Mra tbe st.cia tbat you •- that I resl• asttoip.t. I 1iig4 be ask.• abeut*. a [ar seA .Ae of tA.« e.pssiu.es ya are ap.a+1A9 ao ~ e:tra day !n pr.paratlont ~1 Abo~tt. ri~ht. • 0 4o we have 44 days atdicated aolely tot depositioAs tbat Mls.f.2s s. LIW? s, c. s. a. & aoAMs x. .ou.m. c. i. s.
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l T a a • ~ 4 Notris • itdl reet »2l oote noticed by t1e aefendsatst A Osrteot* o asd you also cowis. & ssbpoens from the dsftndants to ., '1 fusk rso had to l..posd! ,. ' 4 A lrs, "st t• ostt.or. .. ; 0 =l.il the jorY abont ebat ptoass.' A w.ll, tlte ..bp.rnm asks as to pr.vlas to tbs d.fondants •vecYt4ipt I have written soont ssokinq and beaith, w.rr dr.ft of rverY srtiols, even it it wasn't published. i was asked for sil tbe drafts ot any es.ounicatloRs I made with anybody ia the •utqton aen.cai•s Cosslittes. t Yas asked fo[• ob• pretty swab anything that would o.ar on the topic of health vhatsoevec, that I Orodreed. I oas slse asked as part ef the oubPoena tbat, since the tsports that I stde I typsd -op on my bo.e .oapdtsr. No t1ow tbey 90 lote.tas littie dlst.ttes, t va. tslise fot er.ry draft s9: tmt t.pott tbat wo.ld M la.id. ~~. .. . eLe*2itt1o dtshetRes. '`#'~'` ~ irsa alro aihed !et sot• that t saas at any ~ tlo. !s ossmetioa with tus ssss. Q oidn•t they .iso ask rou t.c roU satral oo.pMtst disks oi What was .A the disks? A ris, a.d !t qok as a vhil• to ha.e it fciated ovt, PsMI• !. W1 /, C. t. R. 4 .TOANps N. RODSTON, C. t. U.
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1 2 3 • f d 7 • f 10 12 !- ia 14 iS it F Barrls • redis.ct ifls because sone of the oarpnte: di.ks, tbe old draits qot oras.d. I Aad to c.aov.r tAe old dratts and ~- Q Mou Pc.p.r.d a report la andrst ot 'a5 et9ardta9 state , ot tAe att. io that .otteatf .,,; : a Uat vas the first ioport: sr=nat. - 'Q ~VO11 tM• socr Mov .m t.t.reaoes ar• sostasa.d ie that 11f por t. A _!) . 0 dnd you asbs.qoentlY did an •aeptrt's rrpo=t tor ane of Kr. s1.okYey's Mrtn+c! A Tos. Mr. Itare. Ourin9 tht dtpositioA b• said, oro d.rris, it you Mave any additional Intoraition "ACerlliAq aAy of tllt questionx I aaked you ix the last •• I dsn't know at that poipt, it vas about s.veA or .iqbt days -w- I roula sucA appreaiat• your going back over al1 tbe matorial snd pay you for !t. 0 Oid tev Porep.to a saprtt secs It t.. ... ., Q~'Ooot.r. bw tirsr 6w.ewts ~ iateral Mous.ats-Msve • - ~-O.L A MO• tsvl.vN ie t1LLs eaNT . •!!ro sbyi.s thst t Mae• at kaM.. Vusti dM't dsont all of the.e tbo.e ats the .e.s for vriali i Maw aopi.s, oouid qo tAtoo9h 12 Iils dravers, peck.d' Ills kavers. 0 Aad 1ov waY medical •nd soienti[lo articles did you %o
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a S 4 i •asris • rodiroat 1l26 iraiw+ in oonisnation vitb this wss! A As 1 saia, it vould be olose to • tbowand, but t,be on.s iPersrnally bwo ospi.• of that I pt to the t!i• bwino to •o• witA tbis as vovid tlil aqtrst sis bt Atssa tu• ~trlltt~. : , Nv web tim did m .psnd, Dostor. iA Ptfper.tl,oA as sos.oha to Mvo Mor* sna try ts gise the jury ro+1t knovl•dq. .t tAe state of the art as vall as an aNalrsis of the defendants' intsrnal docments4 A ilontos and .mtbt. Q Ot. RaTriso tbtif 1/ot• totf aYlttions, by Xt. RtatlMy e0!'IQftirAAq soire lbouaents that you r.viwwsa ta this asa and •oM dbCmlAt s you d1 dN 't. /tlt. t6111aitY& Side bat. tilda barJ wt. RMX6ytI aMi". I iwt i+otlo.d that the 3sror sitting ritbt Mst to vhfc• 11c. 24411 is •sWnis4 tlon• . , . , 2. .ooasisssllr Is l..tie9 6% Nr. Mll's swtos. ~~ t.r Mo lait twr."rs aaa t.rpMls a owo it. I AWot totn bortn9 that tMoro. tt ws tba• Ii U 4# . 1 fV. • 1n =We IMt should be loN. CtM of side Mr.1 sY *R. so4rs 1 0 0 totKo I tor4.t. ooator& you prepared another rtpoct in wrmza !. `erra. C.o.R. iO1Mqi'. 1e. •OOt'COR. C. 6. !t.
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( . . I 2 3 4 .i s IS 16 y •.rris • r.dlreat 1027 this aN rlisraiao the risks of ot9ar.tto awkie't A oorr.~t. Q Jm.ary V . 19847 0 a s.a. ' ~u asked as to prodsos ti~at t.post . a.0 iaid t •. . . . : . 0'itl• saetber tta.-assr.tsy otiert eA rsMt pattt .. . . . .. . ! . t. • T . ..i a ;-s+.slt w. a 1.a9 tlrw to do tMts .e., ta.. .~. .. • , - ... cit.Q. it ws aboat auothsr it0 artlela spsoitioalir, Q wer• you as.aia.d on the articles that apassr in that r. p~tt t A los. Ar Kr, ili ten rtqAt wer tbere tor, i don't kaows weral dsys. Q You did .oue original oaicwlatio4s in rt9atd to that roport, did you aot T A Oarrect. 0 t+.is tht inrY aboet the oti9lal orlculations you did i• rfgara to this Ca8f. W. UMS:S oei.ai.n. .ide ar. .4. 11R, •iLMM s !hi s.aY be as ls.w o! WAat vs Yti l Iear, as t tbiat T.d aatLcipst.d. Msro, wiit w0st I"t that be did o.iwlatians l11Yl.Lly !. isM1d. C.i.t. Ia team I fee w..e a"e.ts or b.+r Uelt ;,' . sOti,`r rMst bo di• aad #rw ioso lt sesk. m M~ W ~. x"MYI si*de Mr• .. . _ w aoMe a. rovn:or:. c. a. a. : { f
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I 2 3 4 s ~ 7 Jlatr~s • ~rtaitoat ~l~t troa •ariovr dstat IIRO tO2LL& You 9vys sake it ooaR0 likm be qot prid a lot of aonoy tot doing aotbioq. • . .~ . . ~;. mt OOOATt i. tliis to tstabiirb tho ti.o tltat M. ., . .:: ., . , dwot.• or viil vo l.t iato i.-w.r sub#o.t! .:~ ~ . ... MR. s 0lLL 1 dollttally• 1/11ot be di1/ ~- M. A mme ir w are j.iao to Mat tb: sudatane.o of M• ropott » ttt. t06LLs No. sou vlll aot bosr the substanc.. (en4 of side ba t.) oY Na. acM I Q poetot, toli w aboat, $wt 4atrallY, tho types of oslQVlattoas Yov i.a4o and bow iush tlro you spent in r.tiao the oaicculatiea.t A As I di.aws.d, tbt=• wt• l.r9.-.oalo lorvata lookinq studi.s, vAoto people trntolloa la the bfqtaAinq and vatebd for sm* aw Y..ts .M w.n vft bas, r..a9 t,1m .oek.cs .si& a.n..otors, trbotb.~ ,"oP1. died ot aceoROSt 'ass«s . .. . __ .. .. '. oM vb.t di.....s. aaa tMeao strtios .vvaara at. Netsiase , ,. . . I . ;T tltat t~ . , , Po o 11 • ~ 4 M V , > t mm to tslit t1N osrPaot taprs is so.o~ Ms sad do orivis.2 oeopoto: aalaulstionst sad tli.a I psNiOtd tM to..1ts of tbost vsoputot aioulattaus lp my ttpott, snd tti*n ttw rulsrlting ootes. sort ol tM ista..diats ot.ptr lanLif s, wWie. C.s.1. . . . . ~ r • . ~ .10AMr1t Ne mo0sl0m, C. S. it. i 1! ; c t
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1 ~ 3 I ~ s i 7 t • 10 11 12 E : 23 is is 17 lf 1! !4 ~ 2_ u 24 ~ :s Narrts • rediireot 1920 aabout Mbat the oarpdter output was was theA provia.d to the lawyers an tb• other sid., and tbea that was dtsorsad tot a awb.r of dars, "d both by Nr. dillon, treo pbilip /toriris* asd llrie iaistt ttoir R.,. Mrialr. : x doa•t ..ob.: ia tb. asdieov. aw, wt abe was 1osa this .oralu$. - • 0 Let's talk about the details to vhieh tw a.teuda.ts and Niss Raiser wnt into your oalcuiations and your review of the sae.riai in this casse epeeitital2Y, tell vs the types of detailed qwstions psrttaant to your r.viw ot the Ntertals to this ca.e and tbe Qaltulatfon that they went into. A sotaliy vitb,ro.p.ct to this partloalar r2st ot ci~aretto? Q les. Not your own swoktn4 bi.torY, jMst as rour t.vtw ot the litaaturo. and the ea2owatioss you .ade in this Ca". A t s,as ast.d about pretty sss* Mrorr Mse# what .very auNsr ssat oM evory pagr wb.n it ea.o to twt esieristions. , . . NM.t to this awabfr! ltbst to that urbsrt $o lKtb. I was jr.t al»at *-a 304% about ask.d about Nrsrrthiao. t read i aMrb.r of trtnps •re logo Mrss t" oourse, ot tht.e daps, sad anrthin9 that I typed t;., an artiale and then typsd b.ok iate rr rsport.: it i trptd it inoorreatiy.j I Mas asked wfi.tb.r it rss a treudian slip. MYt.6 ti !. LWIS, C. t. A. a .10iNlit N. 'NWfM, C. S. l!. , 0
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i 2 4 I 4 7 rarris d. redjr*at 1!)0 0 Did they yo ever your reports# every iIae, Doctor? Q And Wll tbe jury AvM .any pages root total ausbtc oi .. . . • ...,,•. c.p•rts a.ooat to. , A lfo11,4 this sse to s0, that we to S!, so that to 020 lmt 11l. ! s!S • M you are trelAiAd id1 • 0 lhst excludRs all the aotwwl articles tAat are oited in tbere, earreot? Oor rta. That to iast vbst I typed. OotRinq back to Nr. Rearney'a qu.stions. lio aboweM you Plaintl:i's tsbibit a- vb.t I satk.d llaintif!'s auhibit 400 Y, ana 400 Y. A ZiavB you ever Men tboN • OpCtor? A les, /tr, teatnry sAovsd tbeit to st risttrday, i tbink. •e talked aboot them. anyvay. Q Ooct.r. &I I slght, that thae dec+weots a- tb..s doauseets sslce reterenoe to a 1952 osurvey by Or. teiserson? • Atobte via 11c. /`.ars,.r sAow rM the 10!= sr..y? A .. No, lw did sst. ~v .i ' .~ .~, Q aw• ybp mK Mo11 the lri2 sYrver? 0, 11N. t Asw aot. 4 . Q Os yon kPAv sbeth.= K wt the 1052 survey was Prodvcsd in this asa4 " A I rad.rstand tbat vhen th.re vas -~. that vlWn it vas l
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f. I ! Natt`S - Setu=eOt 1931 totad out that tbet• was such a-- •xist.d a»sZ sncvsy -m W. MW1lcz,eYs I object to his tostityinq aooat rMat was ot was set ptowoad ia this ssso. ... !us CwRts twtaimsd. _ r t , T, !.L °: ItR. tDMt I wdid sttot isto s+rid.aos tlslatit!'s .~' . . ' aribit 41e •.ad a• IP aM I.9t.W it VP a ta. a.rt. M CGUff/ Any •bj._Nom• . . . . . MR .MILM M O bi eCt i 0n . 1eE CoORTs 1laad it to Mc. Unaetrroodm slti CDURTs we oan deal with this 1ita, 1ttt edaril. 1!!t. tDaLLe It's pettinOnt to the 1952 sYrvsY. 1tR. RsUNtYt May I bs heard Yost Ronor at side OstT Ntt. eLeAtLeT1 t.rb.ps, since we hare jwt otea provided witb the set of decwats. tAe .ost oxpedidAt •OYrre of action tio{tld 11N to toMtrm a!1 this a1ld stqWl &W1tit tbs sft.t tbe jury ts •ncssd tor the avenia9 sinoQ Kr. 56611 vill Ptebablr net tinimh this Nrss1M. don't w M tsat, /tro adtli t • . . k. ~ /~. SOlLI. i o: *ut .rw y.M 1Pi.LaRIZV. 8rsbit Ve. 9011,00 what "at i.* sitT A that is Dr. iwiMrMn's ils6 a.rosy e~titloa, 'Cilatttto d.okin9 and bsA9 Q.ncfr, A turvoy.• ...r..... * f1WTR. e. a. *. & ss;rrs N. roussoM, C. s. n. ~ w I-A ~ ~ ~ ~ , ' S . i s
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Aarrie - t.dlr.ot ltt! i ! 3 • f i 7 0 !!at wasn't ahevn to yov oa ocoss•su.iaAtion, ea. ltt A Mo. 0 OtR Yos tell the Sar vb.tba theta ar• aar atat.NeAts by or. S,*titrsoa lA that ,1954 SYrrey MASlt"89 Cigarftts asaki" aAd lra~ ea~tt. . . r.adinq i• that Or.- Lisersos auaiade• 1a JanurrY ilsl tbat tbe assoaf.tiM betv..a cigarette wokiNI an• 1un4 cancer wu real. !he Qwst ion vat, vDsthet or not the csuol siqnitioanoe aad b..n estsplished, that is# vM th.r or aot there had been prool# and, 1A laot# the Li4qett dsaseent lsseribtn9 it ia taat says the sare thing t,Aat Or. Lasersoa bse established ia i!S• that thsre vas a ceal association r.tw.n cigarette wwkinq and lan4 daAOet, but that ei96rrtt• .rohin9 oawr.d loa9 cancer hadn't b.en proven. Q Ooes it say tbat in that /basaentt a tt s+.Ys tMat. Yes* ft w.ta, t1wr.t.re, appt.r tbat 0.o0 the . y astatlati.n betw.a oi0arettO woUw1 aAe lMt ON..r so.os . 0. pai the sigaitiosaco .t this association erutat .~. ,. . , ... q Mecat, t•ill aisi shw Yes 11atatla'. Aaibit 480 xe t M.ula like goo to look at it. W. tOiLLt I vovld li1N/ to i*AtrOdwRe flaltstltt6s Inhibit 370. !tlLL tt 't. ti/If !I. C. N.1t. i MNNt M, sONt'l+ON. C. i. R. i N
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1 ( 1 z 3 5 4 I • liar[ls - tadtslot t86 COCJRTa Any objeetion? MRe sbARltQTi Do objootioa. !Rt COORls 370 to tvidQAo.. ipisietltt's tsMidit »• wo teaivad !a wld.aa.I Itlt. IOtL&I !bi • vtli bs ratt of the 3ary Ainder t.utgov .orAlaq, .o the 1vty oa• laok at it. 0't.il w vbst tbat dbQw..At is. A lhle Mu rb.t Kr. R..raey either road to ot shew.d bo. Can't r..esber -- I think I did •ta it. It is the notes of a oaaticonce beld with reptesentativ.s of Artbur D. Littl• In Jaauary of 1954, It's a Liqqett & Myors' docmont. 0 Any state.epts ooncerninq or. Ltisecson's litorature survey in tbat docrsment, ti r? A br. Orrkis, who to b.ad of resea oA a-- •ay I.ave tbese? Q forsy. A Dr. Darkis, director of reseatobe said I vonld askt tYeM Otrll24"rl Ceaarks. •s.votal reass ap w asksd or. Wsetasw w sarvey .- tM itt.ratst.o ro oiiu't 91.64 awtmao. that Wesli .aonvino. w that osaat Was di roet lY rolat.• to tob..oo. At Slqb t be a..Atribot.rr taota, but ttM• io as dstiAlto pt.of.• _. 1lt. 19eAR1ttY: May I asb biR to read Rb• Mst seat.noe? p Oartalniy, it will be part .t the iairy biadot to.orrov !OY'LC.ts :. 6.NSS, c.s.R. aOAM K. sauIroH, c. S. 1.
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l, -- --- -- --+- I 2 3 is 7 - rats i. - redirect iM and the Jr[Y oan look at Vbolo ao4wrrnts. Ut OOOM You may toad it. A NOt. Wssrsoe has attended Mstlsds Of the 11Uc -tot ._ • . .,-. :.... . ..-.• .. .. sotrKSl 7"ts asd the Intotoatioa lio obtatrMd at t-oM ,. • rt. • MttlA9s wauld toaA to indlaato that there was otrtsialY no •- . < . • - N • pro.ot that anoet Is 4ictatlr tolstsd to tobsooo •ad tbots was a large Nqa+nt of opiAtoa that osAOet ptobrblr was sot rtiattd to aookinq." i believe be brovqht that survey up to date. Tboco . was a 1952 sutver. I bel iMre or. Wstraon btovqht We sunn+ Iip-tO-d2tf as of Nal/qbet of tklt Vot[• I voald like to all on Or •$+coaa to oake any statosfats be wants to, and tlws tir. Gcoaa as a scientist ooat i nwd. Q Or. Barti a. t' d l l,ks soft ,ca. to"I t'a liko to olloc that in ovidenee. M. RtAWNt# go objeotisa, !" C00Ni no SAMbst !.s1 ... IIte dOeLWr t Nd/. so ©ows 400e to QriMftM. . I . . 4, ; ttabtbit 9,04001 is slulwd In WlSDOa.$ ': . Q Osotot• do you rooembec talkiu9 about Madot's 0496st with are Mbrstt Yosterdar! A Yos* are Roatasy told W that the -W More was a Pr rLLrs T. t.wtto c. s. o. s so+-xme K. Nou az+oa. e. o. a. J
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1 e.ttis • redirect 1935 aetiAq ottveen Nt. Mraahan, oho to a reporter tot Resd.r'• Olffsto aad p.oplS at the Litqett • Ayot• ceaatab isboritoRy, = Mli.ve it w., to iKl, a.rb. 0600 p M ro. =o.e.brr 1fr. C.arety Mld Ioo tbat that daaessut : vOstir..a that =.lqsett Sntoarrd /tc. Nonahsa at Aose.t's Digest that `Iogftt bad coatltNod ate w1Aat's IqYM Paiatin9 otedt..7 . NR. ttRRMerI I object to the toto ot the oue.tio4, 1019 CDURTt I' ll p.toit it. ovettvled. Wait one Noond. M.' la got Mr. RtaraaY's wa voras. i Q haroc the tcanseciyt ttos yostotday. 00 7oY tlmember 1y - you were lA the OYrtroft rt.terday attetlaon h.fore we iett, v.re you uot, doctor? A t.a, I osa. Q 00 rou tqMbrt .y w .kia4 0e totlo+isnq rpwIt I •Mto=. I l.Mro, I roitld lfko •t. 2.atMy to id.atitr tor ~ tb.- Nard the deesast to waiab he .or. Nr. 1MsaMan yss iwl.awi as to t" roallestiaa of tbo wadet sto0y." A w.s. : d.. .. 0 0o rod s.N r.b.t lu. Mea/r!Y sakisq the tol3ovia9 ttatr..at / I•tledt ftaa I•avt it oe the record? 19NR. RsARNRiI tes. leV.LIi T. LMtts. C. i. R. 4 ,OAi1Mt M. fOdLTON. C. !'i. R. 0 r _ I , :
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P.2i2 , ,:. : .a•~: •:~,, +'. •'~'n.'.~: . h~~.. +•w • . V~.;1••. Harris rodireoti ls 1 " ~l1~1• lIDi~L~ s r .g~ r? .. • , : : .~i:. , 1 uURllsY i Mtes 'e:bislt ls, your Monor, at th deposition taker, by ar. ldell of ox. Oatos, 6 Liqqetr employae, and to that good enough"T Do you reiaambor that? °.. N. A Year x do. • 0 Lrt's take a look at AatRs ta. This is marked as piaintilt's •xhibit 4001. He didn't show you that pestecday, did ho7 1 A No, he did not. 0 Can you tell the 3ury, Dr. Ratri,s, who set up this meeting with Mt. Monahan4 0 • 1 A Mr. Monahan wrote to the • presiwnt .e! Li94ett iMyers. 1 We was doing an artiole on aateot developcants in the oigr-rettes and he wrote, The Ciqist.plans to publiah, some lioe In the lall of this year,' an attiol• dealing with new 1 research and developioent in ai9arottes: ~~To tMike this report 1 ai 'ooa-piete and .aoourate, as possible raAd to -•insur• no i teportant and torth coming dovelopwnt is overlooked, we 2 vould UMa 1o4avo your oooprration.' That was May, 1959. --,• ' "sbat's •tb• start of the «*:•that6s the teporter, mr ! Itondban, , starting .,the relatiooshipoor •~~c,: ;' ,: , ~, :, 0'=,411nd who acted as liaison to a`t• Mp ;thir ttotinq for fiiq9ott~•fi - Nyirs?: i ;•sl. ;,;. c-Rrr•fla+x~s ~~'• ~,,. . u:, , , . 1-~ ~ :';Nr:NCl!!lota -litsqetald''ol«0aheMr,klitnqtraidi - -laeple. 6 . ;•...... F i~~~r`~.r ~. . ~~ ~ ~
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larri• • ted! r.at 1037 1 3 J t incotporotsd, an advertisinq a4.nay. I'r readi uq t roso p.9" tiirte. Ore barrta, did you review that doomoAt last weain9! lts. I dtd. •4 0; pla i ask yoe to .ako a Mt.alMtiaa u to vhitMer o: aot th•r• to .nr •tatwot,la trero by a1W LiV.tt W repres.ntatle• or .thsrvt.e t. tr• otteet that they inteaed llr. Nonaban that thep ropl iaated Or. 1/yedec's study? MR. RlARb6Ti I oDj.ct. your donoc. !he docustpt speaks tor itaelE and it's to wldeAOt. V1ae jury aan teaa it. MR. iDC1*161 The jury vill hase it in their binatta. "E CORtitl# . i'11 peroit it. It vaa brought out on Qtos~. Q OoQtor ip can you •nsVer the aastl0s, plrase T A r. s, i oa n, 14i. td.l l. Q l.l3 the Sury, is ther• any .tatoa.nt sn ther• to the ottoot t"t tA.r iatora.d Mr. /loaahso tlratt they vbr. aole to wstitll Ik. I~aMT~• sR1/0y! . A Moe ab.alot.lr Mt. •, ' ft• they lrrai.h Nr. Noaabas vlft rwr oi* t#o Atatisti CS &AdlMtLAg tll! RvWlr of MwOers Off rbtb able to "t on Mlolt A bo. !h• only tbinq tbey. gave Nr. Moa.han vu sv.e tats sad siootina and L:` N.nd butt length aad thinp: like !!! rwLIt !. Lflf Ii, C. it. R. a aOmS 11. bQOe'P4ti. C1 i.1t. 0 M e w M m
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----.~.._ ~~..._.---------_.,---~------------------- ( i ! 3 4 i i 7 •a«is • ro,0icect 1!3• tbat, vhiab are included as tsbsos ia t1M baak* fbor• is so svntion whatso.as alart any results oA OawQfts to nioe. , . .. . . ., ~., , _ p ".c• Maa aos dissnssion r.ststd.r, aa4 wsrr0ody "a a . 't. . ~ . . . 0 . littlo bit .t a laogh ibost it,* ttaws Nr. Reatrsr 1060 light of the tact that tA.c• v.as • pisosssioa ia tbe hassdr ot tMis si'acottsst R.aea's oiv.st arost alwninae atalyst, tssabirt tMtt w Ytt. - Q Can you tell the jury who brouqht np tAt subioct ot alnainw catalyst to tbis ss+etinq with ttt. Moaahant A Yes. Now that I'ro read this I oaa tell you. 4 tleas., sit. ~ ttr. lbnaban brought up alsaintiw oatalyst, it was Ais idsa. 8• was tbe one who initiated the 4lscass1on. 0 Dr, dacri., as an •sp.ct to ssotiat and bsalth, waad you cd co.aand to a oi9artttt.ooapaar that tbty 9017 spon Neadec's oiq.st to advise thoit eoessr.rs as to the ha3 tb ~-"lvsrldst. :t. f i6~ ..~a0sss• oilest voold he Ms attial• that apptsta• .rrtn lt tt's a baadtrl of actici.s, tb.t appsscs spssathrliy, , lat:.qs.atlt ow tioo and not oso.ssstilr to all •• any ; woro than a ttaction of the oossrr.r. psoulatioa, vb.th.r tbe• ps.pl• ssokin9 the pcolbact ot tMe peopao who siobt swoke tk. OD w ~ m Ob I I
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l 1 ! 3 s 4 7 •artis - codittst 113! produatt sty eaperioaas i• pr0a io h.altb leads 10s to conoiuie that U one waats to Mt the laietsttoia to en.'s oonsu.as. . ,, oo dos.a. It Jwt toil th.i eoot 44 Wit tot"t Iti that , :;. . there •ta. A.v eeu.r..rs all the tUre vbo kawa't geaa that . . ; 6 -astiel• a that wea It they 1Mati the atitiol• eues. It .S •reps !rM the pu0lia folwpstwt aa0 isu•t .oAtlonod aoaia, it rears ot! tapialY. My ovn research iediaat.s tbat. p wbat m.at oA, dvctot i a Mtll# s'., l.eked specifically at what bappsatd to the ar+ovnt of cigarettes that vtr. oonaMSSd ia 1ls3, tiqht attst the publ iQatioe of or. Nradot's atoar. And, in tact, I wrote about this in the 1!79 an0 1060 Surgeon G.n.rai's «p0 rts. Q wbat did Yonr cos.arat+, rhowed4 11 NY research sAewtd that there was a ttaasioat, just tot a.hor t t is.. that trore was a spl it +dawn i n ei gar.t te eoaaa.ptioas ,ae a soama• tiqbt `sstc. .. ,. .. _ ~. is laot •is Nery Iastaees obst• there 1as Men - , . .~ . . ." irrtlosal parlLsitY aboot s.ottal srrN lrealth. 3mte' the .. f. ~ tei.is o# 00 smrosoo oaarenl6. t0pct, tbere has wea a . ,. mbort tcaasiaR Aop ls fosbisptsoat 8000tiNa oM st !wo poroaat, ia that otdec st wqnitsOs. swotintrs a littl• .oro# seatiw• less, but thta It rsrla s.rs bsoR sp .aqsin. lbat Aas 1i.pp.ned a numbat of tivies. wrVrf.lR !. LWit. C. s. R. JoAMMC N. aooalotl, c.G.R. . 0 3 . ., i . ,
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4 , 4 s 3 4 5 a 7 u 23 24 a Vartio - rodttoet 1940 !n addition# rtr own ro.eatch about the 1970 iurgeop Oosa.1'• /t.port, I oa..onitoiriat tt at the tio., •arvtr aata on bov aaay p.opl• N. IMt. K.tAdt.t2s 11ay w sOptoaab the Mnab, rPlMas? t00 loliaviag t,.lce..• jiaoo at sidebbt.1 . • . . ;.., . • !Mt OOURTt irot M aot tM• boY qaotlou. !Or'r! ., Not goiag to tibloA toaitlbt? NR. tO4L i Mo. 3Rt t2OuRTS oo you think this is a 9ood tiae to bceak? MR. tML:. it olrtsinly to s logical break. !46 CODRT: Any objeation? MR. W.QA2t.QY e •0* wft. RoRLL S i+rould i it. to ieoolw that bbtoro we lo.vo, the qw.tioss of tboae two lottbts and the 1962 Import. _ 'tY{3 WGRTt TOU rallt to lbpti111M tbNA? 816 Mw.r 'Mo, aot betoto ta. S.ry. S..t Mltb your . .': :k' $tty.1 1!t ooom aii siobt• No .wttl.e to oseusing tb. Jory O«rt . Mte maQ.tTt M. (fts following takes alaor ia tM p0..noe of the fR. tOtLLt fttore w r.as toc tA* aay, i would s , . . w m t ~ OD 164 . loTl.Lls :. Liwis, c. s. s. & .TOAfars 11. .oosraM, c. s. R.
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I 2 I 4 f 4 ) 104i like to i*teodos! iato rrid.Ace i.ta ambtr l0. vbich ve N stlc* d a• plaiatitf's •sbibit •00Y, s+o that the iucy +:aoa bws it to tbelc bsadexs vben they oae. A', . .."t Ctlffe . Any ob3tatiM?. .. , . . ., v . . " :?... AR. UtM! s No. . . :v.. , !rt OOnblS to rrjdtaos. INebecs ei the foty* w Will ssoo.. 1*s sow with the request that you be bare at a Owctoc et tsa. tt+e' li start praaptly at ts n toaorrow. Z have .ose .attOrs that Mc. OhMtwood assares .ro tbe'y'lll b. here early .n4 we'll be able to owaludv by IOs00. 11ws a pleasant .vtaing. Me'll tea you bere tosorrow Notaia9 at a Quarter ot ton. !at CLaelcI hii rs.t. (ftereepon the jury is •xcused and the tollovint takes pls.. ort ot the ppr.SOaos of aw Jrtr.1 r~b+ Vdi C'+Obt e - ris o.y sttp dMrs, ft. #acris. iR. OtAWlLStS Yist Aa"t, I think this =dlseussieo ~,,~. . . . Mill .i~nlw the sapt - of Ot* tsttl0' toOtlosY `tMt be . shoM d M osasttd. , 2111 oMRtI Al l tlobt. or. balcis• We' ll txoupe I. "Y* tor. Bscris teiwes the voactcoo..) !IIlLG2= !. i.Ntlt. t.S.t6 fostaa fce ronasop. c. a. jt. ; , A 2 , :
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Z~tDEX ~.._...,,, x ITNEsa , cw-sq JBTrRE'~ HARxzS syr ux. xaarmw 17 i t~ by Kt-, rarrisfi is4! ft x?:. Me3 l, xXaxssse ..~...._.... F. pAGl. ~.~». P-370 1933 P-100 R 1934 ® , ~. 4 C' y •. ~

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