Tobacco Documents Online

G v 1 MR. WILLSON: Reds. By Mr. Boal: Q Coripared.. to Reds, for exar.iple: Lighter in_taste, I can't answer that taste is relative. Q Who was responsible for the phrase "lighter, , in taste"? -approved. It went through me, certainly, as the copy would. Q And "lighter in taste" had no meaning to comparative? Say that.again,:. .16 ' A- I think that's_ relative. I think "lower 17' in tar". is specific, I think, It's lower .in tar than

22 1~ when the transfer ~date is., 3 @ Mr. , Cu 11^:an? * I att-ended one meeting with Mr. CullmGn. Mz'-.. r.illriser.? I don't remember a meeting with Mr. Mill- ~'MR, FLETCHER_: Which one? THE WITNESS: Joseph F., III. ,By--Mr, Boal: Q Now, with respect to what has been identi- f ied as Morgan Exhibits 3A and 3B and 3C, this-was, in fact, the f irst phase of Marlboro print advertisin is that correct? Correct. Now, does 11A, B and C represent the second of Marlboro Lights advertising? ~ (Witness examining documents.) THE WITNESS: I'm not positive of the sequence, but, they look familiar. But Itm not positive this is the sequence, Boal: Q And we :have -identified as Exhibits 12A,. and C-'to the.Morgan.deposition some newspaper adver= o . . . . . ~ . o~ ~ _ ~ tising; which'I believe was also at.an earlier date,_ w

24 ,..... ..._ ..._. ..._. ... _.,.... .v. , .._ ~..._. -. ~ ._....._.. _ _._...._...... ~ ._. ._... _ .•. _..,..._,.. _. _.. . _. ._ . rather; ° Q of Marlboro Red, Isn't there a os.rticulwr non-smoker thwt this advertisin~- is directed at? 5 I don't think there is a particular non- smoker. Q Particular group of non-smokers? I mean,. is there a particular group of smokers? A I don't believe there is a particular group ori this, Hopefully, we were aiming at all those people who did not smoke Marlboro Reds, Q I note in the first line, the top line of , -Exhibit 12A, f or example, in the copy, prominent type:l~ "If you smoke a low tar and nicotine cigarette, try this new one from Marlboro." Isn't that directed to the low tar and nicoy tine cigarette smoker?- I have always looked on low tar•being a very-relative thing,-. For-example,_if I were a Camel smoker, would consider a Marlboro, say, or an L & M as a lower tar cigarette, Q Was there a reason f or the selection of thei copy.."If you-smoke a low tar and.nicotine cigarette,. w try this new one from Marlboro "?. ..: N a . . o~ 0 .._w . . a

I .> s 0 a 9 16- 17 'peopl'e who don't s'r,loF;e Marlboro Red. prefer the tast(: of a lower tar ci~arette, MR. gOhL: Could you read the question and , ansvrer, p].ease?-,- Q- Do you want to ad3anything to that? By Mr. Boal: The record was read.) No. Are there low tar and nicotine cigarettes? I guess there are, Q What low tar and nicotine cigarettes existed in 1971 when you placed this advertising? I can't recall specifically, but I would assume that True was on the market, Doral, probably Vantage, Marvel -- not Marvel -- oh, what's that low tar one? I can't recall its name. Those are the ones that come to mind. Isn't that really who the advertisements such as 12A, B, C and D were directed to? Well, again, I have to say those are peop?e who don't-amoke'Marlboro Red, and that's who we were get. And those people are people that come-' within the description of "If you smoke

21 Q "engraver"? Are-they owned by Leo Burnett? T'T o . It's an ir.deper.dent entity? R it,;ht , Do you know Collins, Miller & Hutchins? I know of them. And are they engravers? . They are photo engravers. What was the,word you used before Photo. How about Intaglio Service Corporation? ~ s t ~ ~ They are an engraver, also, for rotogravure, And how about Superior Rogers Graphics? Photo engraver. Q Did they make any decision with respect to any-of the Marlboro Lights advertising? Q In 1971, who at Philip Morris did you work .With with respect to the.development of Marlboro Lights advertising? then he's with Philip Morris, 'and I have forgotten Fitzmaurice,.,At one time,'Bob worked for me,..and. A.. `Jack Landry, Jim Morgan..-And'I'm hazy on H

f - ~ i I participated in- the meetings that led. to the h mari.etin,7 of Marlboro I,ignts.. ,. ., a ..Q When- did these meetin`s first occur? Mid-1971. I am gues sing. Q Mid-summer? A Something like that, . 7. 8 U 10 z $ 15 16 17 18 19 20 1 ,0 23 24 Q There are some agency service reports th;,t. have been identif ied here, if that's off any assist- ~ ance. ance. I do not have.with me the first one, which ; is in September, but when we come back again, we -will have the September one. I think they are chronological. (Witness examining documents.) THE WITNESS: Well, the first one here indicates~ December 1 of '71. By Mr, Boal: Q At that point in time, I take it that Marlboro Lights was being sold in New.England and not elsewhere? A_.- Correct. Q Do you recall the meetings, what took place at the meetings in mid-1971? ~ Specifically, what?

f,..,... .. .,. . .... . . _._. _ .. .. , i . 1. 1 . * A Wcll> yes. We didn't want to say "If you ., 3 By Mr, Boal:' '1 - MR. BOAL: Could you read that last question and 6 7 N are the sr,:oi:,r :of a flavore3 filter ciZarette" =- mean'ing. the Mari co'ro sm.oker. , -vJe didn'tt want to Red smokers to:a a new.brand, answer? The record was read. Q What do you want to say? `~ 1`'' - A What do you mean "What do 0 z ¢ z 13 9 0 notice on the bottom line of the copy it "Marlboro Lights for those smokers who prefer the.lighter'taste of a low tar and nicotine cigarette,". Are.there any smokers who prefer the ''& I:` lighter taste of a_ low .tar and nicotine cigarette? O v you want to say"? Q You just told us what you didn't want t I beg your pardon? What do you want to say? say. What did you want to say? We want to speak to the smokers of other cigarettes.

J 35 occasion for running the Marlboro Lights? T'o my knowledge, no. Q -Does that mean you don't know? A,.I'1rn not.aware that that was a reason for running Marlboro Lights advertising. Q How long i,s the lead time necessary to place a print ad -such as Exhibit 8 which appeare.d in the New York Post on June 24, 1974? A To create an ad, get it approved and insert it in the newspaper is normally about a -- under ideal conditions, a four-to five-week effort, assumin that there are no new creatives needed. Q Was this created in 1974? No, that ad had appeared before 1974, I'm quite sure. time to place the.ad? A That's possible. Q About a week? Probably longer, I would guess, You don't • recall *specifically? o,:.I don't. Do you know 'who knows? Ourn production manager could answer"that o -. - . ~,

37 t: attorne;; s for R. j. '7eyr.olds TobaC-co Company, and wpr.e propounded to- Philip Morris; and in answer to Philip Morris furnished us with I certain answers. And I'm particularly interested in Interroge,tory Number 5, 'and. I would ask you to read Interrogatory Number 5 and the answer to it,- , Q You do? A Burnett employee, apparently. ~ Q I don't know whether he is. I don't, either. - . He mi ght be someone at We requested production of those two docu-- n't'recall ,them. Well, is 'there a reason : -- Q. He may not b Philip Morris. MR..FLETCHER; Yes, there is. a reason for those, I

19 I ,a....,..__ _.. ~._....._-V.._.. .. ___.._ ...___.-_ -- ~ . •-- _. ... _ . _.~..........._. - ---------.~._,...__~ _ .. . -was prepared. Whether he_was responsible f or that specific thing or r:ot; I don't know. a Q i I type that was used in:the Marlboro Lights print adver-? G tising in 1971? A I would guess Ken Kr.om -- at least under S his direction. Q. Lights selected to tie in with the Marlboro Red type? MR. FLETCHER: .the package? By Mr, Boal: Are u talkim t the ads r ~ b o ou o g a Y Q Well, let's take the ads, f irst, A I can't answer that question, why it was selected,' Ken Krom was the one who selected it, and I couldn"t tell you.why he selected it. Q Do you know who J, M. Bunscho is? Q Okay. Fine, Who is responsible fgr the selection of t'rt~ Was the type that is used on Marlboro Yes. Was Mr. Bunscho involved in Marlboro Lights in any way? A` To my.knowledge, he's a typesetter and'a supplier for.the-Burnett Agency: Did he make any decision with respect to I