RJ Reynolds
Pacific Tobacco Corporation Vs the American Tobacco Company. Oral Deposition of Stuart E. Marion.
Fields
- Type
- DEPOSITION
- Site
- Rjri
- Law
- Request
- Minnesota
- 1rfp8
- Named Person
- Gray, B.
- American
- B&W
- Philip Morris
- Rjri
- Ti
- I, B.S.
- I Tpg
- I Mhc
- Pacific Tobacco
- Morris, J.E.
- Tilbury
- Univ, O.F. Mo
- Newport Reynolds
- Keseti, F.
- Campeaux, R.
- Dunkin, W.
- Judge, C.
- Smith, W.
- Myer, F.
- Galloway, A.
- Mcgee
- Save, O.N. Drug
- F Roger
- Bel Aire Pharmacy
- Hammer, R.
- Grout, D.
- F Frank
- Garden Home Pharmacy
- Steinbach, H.
- Bass, A.G.
- White, T.S.
- Larson, R.E.
- Still, J.A. Jr
- Swaney, L.J.
- Pryor, D.A.
- Sullivan, H.E.
- Rayburn, R.L.
- Coffin, J.R.
- Ritter, C.W.
- Rictor, C.W.
- Robinson, A.W.
- Brown, W.D.
- Tx Assn, O.F. Tobacco Dealers
- Natd
- Belknap
- Us Surgeon General
- Collins & Wilmes
- Smith
- Hubert
- Bernstein
- Safeway
- Payless Drugs
- Pay & Save
- Myer & Frank
- Us Tobacco
- Wilhelm, R.
- Moore, L.
- Hf Smith & Son
- Robertson Pharmacy
- Collins, W.
- Canteen
- Bersos, I.
- Smith, J.W.
- Proudy
- Massaere, R.A.
- Kane
- Mccolloch
- Dezendorf
- Spears
- Souther
- Kinsey
- Cake
- Jaure Guy
- Hardy
- Buttler
- Fed Bureau, O.F. Investigation
- Marion, S.E.
- Mcewen
- Huppin, I.
- Hartman, S.
- Cooper, D.E.
- Albertson
- Kend, D.
- Keno
- Or Tobacco Tax Div
- Campf, S.
- Georgopulo & Co
- American
- Referenced Document
- Cancer Advertising Code.
- Date Loaded
- 27 Feb 1998
- Author
- Marion, S.E.
- Morris, J.E.
- Tilbury, R.
- Tilbury & Kane
- Hillard, W.
- Mccolloch Dezendorf & Spears
- Spaulding, B.
- Souther Spaulding
- Mcewen, D.W.
- Cake Jaureguy Hardy Buttler Mcewen
- Morris, J.E.
- Box
- Rjr3340
- Characteristic
- Marginalia
- Brand
- Camel
- Doral
- Salem
- Vantage
- Winston
- Winston 100
- Winston Menthol 100
- Other Brands
- Doral
- UCSF Legacy ID
- zji29d00
Document Images
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IN TIfE: UhiIT:~7i'l STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOr; THL C I STI: I CT Cf" OI:fCO^1
PACIFIC TO::ACCO CO".PCRATIO~l,
AN OREGON COnPf;Ft,TI01J D/C/A
PACI F I C T0:>ACC() CCq,P :t;Y
P L A I;.TI FF"
THE AMERICAN TOf?A.CCCI
COMPANY, INC., A DELAWARE
CORPORATION, ET AL
DE FFt;DArtiTS
0;;!-~,L DE PO S I T I Oi'+ C, t=
S TUART E. MIAPlON
COU RT .;Ei'0:: 1 . k' "
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ANStiIERS AND DEPOSITION OF STUART
E. l1At;I0^a, A WITNESS OF LAWFUL AGE, TAKEN ON BEHALF
OF TiHF PLaINTI~'T, IN THE ABOVE ENTITLED CAUSE,
WHEREIN PACIFIC TOBACCO CORPORATION, AN OREGON
CORPC RAT I t`N D/'`; A PAC I F I C TOBACCO COMPANY I S
PLAINTIFF AND THE AMERICAN' TOBACCO COMPANY, INC., A
DELAWARE CORPORATI4N, ET AL, ARE DE:FENDANTS,.PENDING
IN THE U",:ITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT
OF 02EGOw, PURSUANT TO THE AGREEMENT HERETO ANNEXED,
BEFORE J. E. MORF;I S, A INOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE
COUNTY OF HARRIS AlJD STATE OF TEXAS, AT THE HOUSTON
OAKS HOTE:-L, IN THE CITY OF HOUSTON, COUNTY OF
HARRIS, STATE OF TEXAS, ON FRIDAY, THE 19TH DAY OF
MARCH, 1971, BETtIEEN THE HOURS OF 10:10 A.M. AND
12:05 P.'i.
IT IS AGREED, STIPULATE:D AND UNDER-
STOOD rY AND E?ETh1EEN THE PLAINTIFF AND DEFENDANTS IN
THE ABOVE Eh:T I TLED AND NUMBERED CAUSE, ACT I NG BY AND
BETWEEN THE: I P. ATTORNEYS OF RECORD, THAT THE ORAL
DEPOSITION' OF STUART L. t4ARION MAY BE TAKEN BEFORE
ME, J. E. "10RRI S, A NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE
COUNTY OF HARRIS ANt) STATE OF TEXAS, AND THAT THE
SAME I;AY EE TAKEN aY ME IN SHORTHA.ND, THE SAME WHEN
SO TAKEN HAY $L RE'OUCED TO TYPEWRITING BY ME OR
UNDER 1PY L'Ii:LCTI^N' AND SUPERVISIUTt.
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IT IS FURTHER AGREED, STIPULATED
AND UNDERSTOOD BY AND BET.;EEti THE PARTIES HERETO,
ACT I tiG PY AND TFtP(7UGH TI'E I R RESPf:CT IVE COU"sSEL, THAT
ALL FORMALITIES AS TO NOTICi', INCLUDING THE SIGNATUR
OF T'iE WITNESS TG THIS DEPOSITIOi+, ARE HEREBY
EXP~:_SE
LY titAIVED; APdD TI-4.AT THE Ot'~'.L DEPOSITION OF
THE ''ITHCSS, STUART F. MARIOr:, !,'FiEN SO TAKEN MAY BE
INTRODUCED IN EVIDENCE BY EITHER PARTY ON THE TRIAL
OF SAID CAUSE.
IT IS FURTHER AGREED, STIPULATED
AND U~'DERSTOOD 3Y AND E'ET?.EEN THE PARTIES HERETO
THAT ALL OBJECTIONS TO THE ADMISSIBILITY OF SUCH
TEXTIr'ONY, EXCEPT OCJECTIONS AS TO FORM; THAT IS,
LEADING NATURE OF QUESTIfl'NS AND RESPONSIVENESS OF
ANSVFfiS, MAY i:E MADE ON THE. TRiAL OF THIS CAUSE
IN THE SAME MANNER AND TO THE SAME EFFECT AS IF THE
t=JIT1aESS 'e,ERE ON THE STAND TESTIFYING IN PERSON.
THE SIGNATURES OF COUNSEL FOR THE
RESPECTIVE PARTIES TO THIS AGREEMENT ARE EXPRESSLY
WAIVED.
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
T I LE'UF;Y £ KANE
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
1110 STAT,DAPC PLAZA
PORTLAND, OREGON 97204
6Y POGCR 71L ^UP.Yj__ESQUIRE
COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFF
MC CnLL.Or_H, DEZENDpRF & SPEARS
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
2Tt-. FL00R PACIFIC E3UILDING
520 SOUTHWEST YAMHILL STREET
PORTLAND, OREGCP! 97204
i3.,, Y ld A Y N E H I L L I A R D tE S 0 U I R E
COUNIS4L FOR DEFCNDANT,
THE AMERICAN TOBACCO CO.M'PANY
SQtJTi-1E"., SPAULDING, KINSEY,
WILLIAMSON & SCHWABE
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
STANDARD PLAZA
PORTLAND, OREGON 97204
BY BRUCE _ SPAUL.t7INGS ESOUIP,E
COU",c,FL FOR DEFENDANT,
R. J. REYNOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY
CAKE, JAUREGUY, HARDY, BUTTLER S
MC EWEN
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
1408 STANDARD PLAZA
PORTLAND, OREGON 97204
BY DONALD W. MC EtiIEN, ESQU I RE
COUP<SE'L FOR DEFENDANT,
PHILIP MORRIS
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C 0 UR T EZ E F0 p 1 F R s
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STUART E:. MARION, A WITNESS OF
LAWFUL AGE CALLED BY THE PLAI NT I FF, HA.V I NG BEEN
FIRST DULY CAUTIONED AND SWORN, TESTIFIED UPON HIS
OATH AS FOLLOWS:
BY MR. TILDURY:
DIQ.ECT EXAMINATION
Q STATE YOUR LlAME AND ADDRESS FOR US, SIR.
8 1 A STUART E. MARION.
a.-
9 Q WHERE DO YOU LIVE? EXCUSE ME.
10 A DO YOU WAt:T mE TO SFui'L IT?
11 S1^ BRIARBROOM., HOUSTON, TEXAS,
12 7701;z.
13 Q H01-: LONG HAVE YOU LIVED HERE?
14 A I'HAVE L.IVED IN TEXAS ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS.
15 Q V'HERE ELSE HAVE YOU LIVED?
16 A I HAVE LIVED IN CAl.IFOl:NIA--i'HITTIER, CALIFORNIA;
17 PORTLAND, OREGON; BOISE, IDAHO; PHOENIx, ARIZONA;
18 Pcr,i! SYLVASiIA, t~ENI JERSEY, NEW YQRt:, MISSOURI.
19 NOT IN THAT SEC?UENCE, BUT THOSE ARE THE STATES.
20 AND I HAVE ALSO LIVED It. FLORIDA
21 AND IN EUROPE AT THE CnNVENIENCE OF---k'HEN I WAS
22 THERE; CUT IT r!ASPltT A PERMANENT RESIDENCE.
23 Q YOU i-lAVE. 71;0VIf-:G Af3OUT MOSTLY BECAUSE OF
24 YOUR t1CCl1FATICt;?
25 A Y£S. It.' THE Pl`.!~ T 1 1,' Yf'/',RS.
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Q GEFORE CO"1ING TO HQUSTON, DID YOU LIVE IN PORTLAN
0 RCGON?
A NO. I LIVED IN WHITTIER, CALIFORPIIA, AND THEN
PC'rTLA":D, OREGON.
Q HC:1 LO":C CI~ YOU LIVE I!d 1IHITTIER?
A S 1 it i171:T (i S . .
Q AND THE SIX MICA+TtIS WAS IMi9EDIATELY GEFORE COMING
TO fiOUS T ON?
A P I GHT.
Q AND !,?HERE DID YOU LIVE fiE:FORE h'HITTIER, CALIFORNIA
A IN' PGRTLAt;D, OREGON.
Q AND H01: LONG D I D YOU. L I VE THERE?
A TWO YEARS AND I GUESS THnEE MONTHS OR SO. SO!dE-
TH 1'c!C- i. I tE TfiAT.
VH~-,T I S YOUR EDUCAT I Chl, PLEASE?
A I HAVE A SACHELOR'S DEGREE, UNIVERSITY OF
MISSOURI.
Q WHEN D I D YOU GRADUATE FROM THE UNI VERS I TY OF
MISSOURI?
A Ir: 1n50--EXCUSE P-1E--'tto. NO.
ExCUSG ;'r. 1950
.
' 50 IS RIGHT.
C:OSN, IT'S CEEN SO DARN LONG I
HAVr FORGOTTEN. I'40ULD HAVE TO LOOK AT MY
RECOfi[). I TAUGSH T AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI
A L_ITTLE.
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C.OURT (<[{'f.iFil E /2S
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Q YOU. DID? WHAT DID YOU TEACH?
A I TAUGHT I'J THE LAW SCHOOL.
Q AND ':!htAT IS YOU^ OCCUPATIOtJ, PLEASE?
A IAIM RFG I ONAL SALES MANAGER PRESENTLY FOR THE
r?':.'YPOLDS T.r.e:ACCO C01HPANY.
Q ARE YOU ALSO CONNECTED WITH THE NEWPORT-REYNOLDS
CORf'C1R.ATIOtd, REYNOLDS INDUSTRY?
A NO.
Q AND IS NEVJPORT-REYNOLDS A WHOLLY OYINED SUBSIDIARY
OF REYNOLDS TOBACCO CaMPANY, OR WHAT IS THE
CONNECTION?
A I UNDERSTAND THAT IS THE CONNECTION.
Q WHAT OTHER D,UTIES HAVE YOU HkD WITH REYNOLDS
AND FOR WHAT PERIOD OF TIME?
A BEFORE I t:'ORK.ED FOR REYNOLDS?
Q NO. DURING THE TIME THAT YOU WORKED FOR REYNOLDS.
A WELL, I WAS A SALESMAN IN PHOENIX FOR THREE YEARS.
I VAS ASSISTANT DIVISION SALES MANAGER IN PHOENIX
FOR SEVEN YEARS. I WAS THE DIVISION MA,NAGER
IN BOISE, IDAH0, FOR TWO YEARS; DIVISION MANAGER
It-J PORTLA":D, OREGON, FOR A LITTLE BIT BETTER
THAN T1?0 YEARS; ASSISTANT REGIONAL SALES MANAGER
I N SnUTHEP.H CAL I FORtdIA FOR S I X MOfidTHS. AN(D THAT
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BQ I t?GS US UP TO DATE.
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Q JJ,^.VE YOU ALtIAYS BEEN FHPLOYED BY THE R. J. tv
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REYNOLDS TOBACCO COtIPANY, Ort HAVE YOU BEEN
2 EpiF'LpYE'D EiY ANY OF ITS SUPSIDIARIES?
3 A IN THE PAST IF? YEAP.S I 1'AVE BEEN EMPLOYED BY
4 TIi!: FtFYt;OlDS Tl!s3ACC0 COMPANY.
5 Q THE CO::RI'CT I S RCYNQLDS Tn!iACCO COMpANY rR
6 IS IT R . J.--
,
7 A R. J.--
8 Q .., f:. 0, RFYN'OLDS TOSACCO C0;~'PAt1Y?
9 A YES, SIR. ..
:
10 Q HAVE YOU 1tORY,ED FOP ANY OTHER COMPANIES AT AwY
11 TI;1E, EITHEi? IN THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY OR OTHERWISE?
12 A YCS', VaHEN I GOT OUT OF SCHOOL I 1lORKCD FOR MY
13 FATHEP. HE HAD A BAKERY.
14 ~ AND THEN I SOLD USED CARS FOR A
15 PE;2I("ID. AND THIA.T'S ABOUT IT.
16 I HAVErJ'T HAD AN AWFUL LOT OF
17 EX?4.RIEPICE AFTER I GOT OUT OF SCHOOL--
18 o HAVE YOU t-1c.D--
19 A ...OTHER THAN REYNOLDS.
20 f~ ...ANY COidt:ECTIO!'I ,dITH AP:Y OTHER TOBACCO COh9PANY,
21 1,lITli THE EXCrF'TIOP1 OF THE i?EYNOLDS TOBACCO
22 COMPANY?
23 A NO.
24 Q DO YOU 01,,'N l'iF:Y STOCK IN ANY OTHER TOBACCO COMPANY,
25 0R '"),",VE YOU:
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COURT RCPORIERS
I A NO, SIR. I DON'T OWN APIY STOCK IiJ APlY OTHER
2 T4uACC0 COMPANY OTHER THAN REYNOLDS TOE:.ACCO COMPAN r.
I
3 DURING THE TIM
E THAT YOU 14ERE iN THE PORTLAND
4 AREA 1lHAT WAS YOUR T I TLE THERE?
5 DIVISICr1 MANAGER
A .
6 Q At!D '-'}iP,T WAS THE CHAIN OF RESPONSIBILITY, STARTING
7 Ff'GF1 THE TOP, IN YOUR PARTICULAR SEGME1.T OF
/
6 OLDS?
RrEYk
i
9 A I l4/tS THE DIVI SION MANAGER AND I WAS CHARGED
10 !1ITH ALL OF TH; ---THE OPERATI-ON OF OUR CUSINESS
11 IN TI-IAT AREA. WE HAD TWO ASSISTAt.T DIVISION
12 MANAGERS AND I BELIEVE A~LOUT TWELVE SALESMEN.
13 Q WHO WERE YOUR ASS I S1'At~iTS, PLC-A.riC?
.14 A FRANK KESETI AND ROFERT CAt1PFAUX.
15 Q ;,'~C% !;}3Ef:E IS HE AT TIIL "PRESEF.T TIttE, ;~1R. hIAF'.ION?
16 ...MR. CAMPEAUX?
17 A I HAVE NO I DEA. HE I S t!0 LONGER IdI TI-t OUR
18 CCi;PANY.
19 Q CO YOU KNOW 10H I CH COMPANY HE I S UIORK I r!G FOR?
20 A NO. I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA..
21 2 DC) YOU KNCI`,; WHY HE LEFT?
22 A NO. I D 0 i, ' T.
23 t:C'lf, GOING UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND ABOVE YOUR
24 FZESPONS I ei t.I T Y, ti11}'0 WOULD BE YOUR SUPCR I OR?
25 IiR. MC F.VlEtl IT ALL RELATES Tn TIiC TIMIF ~
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COURT h:i POI:TE RS
tu
1 HE WAS DIVISION MANAGER OF PORTLAND?
2 MR. TILDURY: YES, SIR. THAT WAS PART OF
3 MY CUESTICN. THANK YOU.
4 A !a'ALT DU!:I;IN 'N:OULD HAVE BEEN MY REGIONAL SALES
5 MI!tiAGFF:. A7dJ :iE S-1AS IN SEATTLE, ;c'ASHIP1GTON.
6 r-U-r.;-K-la -r:.
] Q (BY H'?. TIL3URY) WHAT b:!AS THAT REGION CALLED?
8 A SEATTLE ZrGIOh. .
9 Q ANID THAT i,()ULD HAVE EEEI! t4P.. DUNKIN. AND %-rHAT
10 %,.' A S N,:::T?
.. ~~ I A ZON E t-tANAGER, AND I BELIEVE AT THAT TIME IT WAS
12 I DON GROUT.
13 I Q I S HE STAT I OPlED It:", WI NSTOr:-SALEP1?
14 1 A RIGHT. AT THAT TIMF.
15 I Q A+.:L~ A.30VE MR. GROUT?
16 I A HE I S A SALES MAt!AGER AND AT THAT T IME I 6EL I EVE
17 IT ;!AS CURT JUDGE.
18 Q AND IF ONE WERE TO GO EVEN HIGHER IN THE
19 STRt;TOSPHERC, WHO 14-OULD HAVE BEEN ABOVE MR. JUDGE
20 A 1TLL, PRO-DABLY BILL SMITH.
21 MR. S PAULDI P.G : tdH, 0?
22 TriE WITNESS: BILL S,".ITti.
23 Q (U-Y ~?. TILBURY) AND HIS TITLE tl0ULD BE WHAT?
24 A I GUi.SS ~HE WAS EXECUTIVE VICE PRFSIDENT AT THAT
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Q OK. IS HE THE NEXT MAN UNDER THE PRESIDENT
HIMSELF?
A YES.
Q Ar:D 11H0 WAS THE PRESIDE+lT?
A MR. ^CINIATs C^AY OR ALEC GALLa;'AY. LET' S SEE?
WHAT-- I GUE SS IT 1-'AS 't4ISTFR-- LCT' S SEE.
MISTER--
MS'. HILLIARD: DO YOU HAVE IT, I'OGcR?
A (CONTINUING) I AM NOT SURE. I DON'T KNO;:. IT
WAS E I T1-!E R 1i17 ..~'OLLC GALLO`.,AY OR MR. t3010t4AN GRAY.
Q
(BY ViR. TILiiURY) ALL RIGHT. THERE Z1AS A CHANGE
SOMETIME DURING THAT PERIOD?
A UH HU19.
I BELIEVE.
ALL RIGI-IT. THERE IS IN TNE ANSti,ERS TO INTER-
C.(--.'- _ .> (, z < -
ROGATOf:I ES A ~ tENT I Ot. OF A CONS I DERAT I ON BETWEEN
MR. WALTEF. DUNKIN AND MR. MC GCE, I BELIEVE IS--
M-C G-E-E--OF BROUSI ('>' WILLIAMSON IN CONNECTION
WITH A FLIGHT THAT WAS EVIDENTLY MADE FROM
SEATTLE TO BOISE, AT WHICH THE SUI3JCCT OF
PACIFIC TOBACCO, Cl1PaCEP, CIGARETTES, AROSE.
HAVE YOU HAr OCCASION TO DISCUSS
EITilER PAC!FIC TOFACCO OR CANCER CIGARE:TTES
V! I TH t'iT:. DUt; t: I tE?
!tR. SPAULDING : MR. DUNKIN, DID YOU SAY?
f"';. TILBURY: YES.
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1' Q ALL R I Gt1T. At;p CAN YOU G I VE US THE YEAP,, FOR
8 Ei:A'ir"'LC?
9 A 0H, PE;ObA^LY 1967. SSOMETIME DURINI G THAT PERIOD.
10 ."+S ~.P:Y;~tjl ' c:: t.S~ ?*.ES L~IT DUf: I tyG THE D I SCU S S I ON
oUf: I tiG THA't' l'LAR,---DUfi I Nr THE D I SCUSS I aN?
12 A FrAttiKLY, I UC}IN' T Y.IuG;4, BECAUSE I CAPd' T REMEMBER
13 ANY PARTICULAR DI yCUScInN.
14 Q fK; iG YCU ~Ct'LP1iiCK THE PLACE I.i-lEftE THE DIS-
15 CUSSIQ.: TOOK PLACE?
16 A I T Cc:U LD HAVE i?EEN I N MY COMPANY AUTQMGs I LE OR
17 I'N 'A'( CF FICC, IIMSAN, THIS IS NORMALLY WHERE
18 1lC DISCUSS OUR CCE1!'ASlY [3USINrSS. ~
19 Q ALL RIGHT. I f?ELIEVL THAT YOU IN'DICATED T!-1AT'
20 YOUR TITLE !iAS DIVISION MA~AGEE r.'
21 A Tt;AT' SRICt-iT.
22 Q ...AT THAT TI;1!=?
23
24
A 0H, YES. I DISCUSSED CANCER CIGARETTES WITH
GUt1KIN' .
c~ (UY Mi2, TILCURY) AND tr+-;C'~d DID YOU HAVE THE
DISCUSSION?
A I G'.1;:SS ;':-Uf2I:'~G T!;I5 TI~1E-: IN nUESTIOt4. TO PItv-
F'OIt;T IT, I CGULD;I'T DO IT.
A TitAT' S RIGHT.
I S THIS CALLC'D THE PCf'TL"r:U DI V I S I CN, OR i'tiAT
25 1 I:> IT?
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COUR I FiEi'OkTE PS
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A RIGHT. PORTLAND DIVISION.
Q AND FiOI! MUCH AREA IS Ct:COMPASSED IPd THE PORTLAND
DIVISION?
A WELL, 1:E WENT FRO;1--IdE HAD A LITTLE PART OF
VA'NCOUVER, !vASHI,tiGTOt:, SAY, ON DOWN THROUGH
SOUTHE.:Z:e CALIFORNIA--I t;EAN, TFIf;OUGH CALIFORNIA--
N0RTtiI~R;: CAL I FO;;N IA; THE :-1HOLE EASTERN PART OF
OREGOfti.
MR. SPAULDINIG: EASTERN OR WESTERN?
THE WITiYLSS: EXCUSE ME. WESTERN PART.
THE EASTERN P;..RT 1IAS HANDLED BY IDAHO.
EXCUSE 14E.
Q (BY t'iR. TILBURY) AP;D'VrHAT DIVIDES THE EASTERN
AND THE 1`tESTMN SEGMENTS OF OREGON?
A A LINE OF DIVISION--OR, A DIVISIONAL LINE, AND
FOR THE L I FE OF ME I COULDN' T TELL YOU k'HERE
IT P;AS, bUT ITfS DIVISIONAL i30UNDARIES, SO MANY
0
COUFdTIE'S ARE IN THE PORTLAND DiVISIOr: AND SO
MANY COUttTIES WERE IN THE IDAHO DIVISION.
Q I SEE.
A I THINK IT :JA s NOSTLY SECAUSE OF THE CONVENIENCE.
Q D'':E:S IT "GUGYLY FOLLO:v' Ti-1C CASCADE MOUNTAINS,
FOR EXA"!PLE?
A WELL, I T WAS ON TlIE OTHER S IDL OF THE CASCADE
MtUUNTljIr:S. THE DIVISION t-!AS ON THE EAST SIDE
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COURT Nt P 0 R TE-r:S
~ ~ OF THE CASCADE M0UNTAI NS .
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1~ Q THAT WOULD BE THE IDAHO DIVISION !4QULD ^E ON THE
EAST S I DE OF THE M0U11TAI IyS?
RIGt-iT.
5 Q .... AIvD THC PORTLAND D i 'VI S I JP! C1,`4 THE lVt:?ST?
6 A R1GriT.
7 Q OK. N0W, 1-'F-AT IWAS SAID AT THIS DISCUSSION
8 E3ET'dEEN YOURSELF AND MR. DUddY:IN, AS YOU RECALL IT?
9 A ABOUT WHAT, NOW?
10 Q ...ON THE SUBJECT OF PACIFIC TOBACCO AfJD CAPICER
3
CIGARETTES?
A PACIFIC TOBACCO I HAD NO IDEA THAT IT EVER
.
EXISTED UP UNTIL RECENTLY, WHILE CANICEfi CIGAi:ETTE
WE DISCUSSED IT AS YOU WOULD ANY OTHER CIGARETTE.
AtdD SPECIFICALLY I C/1NfT RECALL. ANYTHING THAT
WE TALKED ABOUT THAT-- PERHAPS IF YOU ASK ME
.
17 SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT--I
18 DOtJ' T KNOW. WE D I SCUSSED ABOUT THE D I STR I f3UT I 0N,
jg UNDOUBTEDLY, HOW THEY WERE SELLING. THI SWOULD
20 BE A NOf:MAL QUESTION THAT HE WOULD ASK ME:
21 "HOW !!RE THEY SELLING, STU?"
22 Q ALL RIGHT. DID HE MENTION THIS FLIt,H't THAT I
23 REFERRED TO EARLIER, ;0(HERE HE HAD A DISCUSSIO~~
24 WITH A MR. fAIC GEE?
11
12
13
14
15
16
25
A NO. I DO*d' T RECALL THAT.
J. 41 . D ~.c r r i o~
1 .7
COURT k EPOV l E RS
1
2
3
5
6
7
Q AT THE TIME OF YOUR DISCUSSION DID HE HAVE ANY
PRIOR TMFORP4ATION CONCERNING CANCER CIGARETTES,
AS FAi' AS YOU KM^W?
A I CAN'T ANSWER WHETHc R HE HAD THAT INFORMATION
OR. NOT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
A A!rD I HONESTLY DON'T KhOt!.
8 Q ALL RIGHT. HAD YOU THE FACTS AVAILABLE OR KNOWN
9 TO YOU AT THE T I'-tE THAT YOU HAD THE D I SCUSS I ON
10 TI AT YOU RELATED TO HIM?
11 A Th-iE FACT ABOUT t!l-iAT?
12 Q ABOUT CANCER CIGARETTES A11D ABOUT HOW IT VIAS
13 C, I STR I BUTED OR SOLD, OR S'HATEVER?
14 A IIELL, I HAD SEEN THEt" ON THE MARKE T. ~,
15 Q ALL RIGHT.
16 A ...AND--
j7 Q t1IiFRE iiAD-- EXCUSE ME.
18 A I HAD SEEN THEM ON RETAIL ACCOUNTS AND UNDOUBTEDLY
19 TtdIS IS WHAT l~lE DISCUSSED.
20 Q 0}:. WHERE HAD YOU SEEP: TH EM DI SPLAYED?.
21 A WELL, I AM NOT TRYING TO B E EVASIVE, EUT, TO TELL
22 Y^U EXACTLY 1;F4ERE AND IN 4IHAT STOI:ES, I COULDN'T
23
S^Y.
24 THERE tfAS ONE DRUGSTORE THAT I CAt4
25 f;`~CIiL'_ IN LLnY!` CEitiTc_R THAT CAt'F:IED THEM. WHAT
~' '~' .','~~ °~?~ ,,t ,~. ,w. ~a~. ~
tr . ~..1 . .~.~J.~ 4~' .. a s. Is
COUitT k[FOR1 1 I:s I
I S THE NAMiE OF THAT Df?UG STOF',E? I S SAVE-ON DOWN
THERE? I THINK IT'S SAVE-G,N: DPUG. THEY HAD THEM.
PAYLESS? 1'OULD THAT BE IT?
IT'S RIGHT THERE I+. LLOYD CENTER.
Q C0 YOU F;ttp" ,lHl'.T PART OF LLOYD CENTER IT IS?
A l;'H f:T PART'
Q ...1!FiAT LE%'EL?
A 0!-', 140. 1T'S RIGHT ON THE MAIN FLOOR DOWNSTAIRS--
'THE BIG DRUf STORL" DOWN THEP.E:.
Q ON' TfiC t'dC;'.TIH S I i?E, OR DO YOU ,^.t CALL?
A Yrlm. YEAH.
t,'A S I T JUST AN I SOLATED CARTON THAT YOU SAW OR
11014 WAS I T D I S PLAYED?
A I THINK IT ;-lAS DI SPLFYED 1~ITH OTHER CIGARETTES.
t.d0"!~'.LLY Th°IS IS '4HAT MY -f:YES' SCAN rIHEt~ I WALK
IN TO ANY C?LL. I LOOK FOR DISTRI BUTION AND
tiHL N I SEE SOMETHIr.G THAT IS OTHER THAN THE
PYC^MAL LI"?;= I NATU?ALLY AM CURIOUS ABOUT IT.
Q DID YOU GO TO THIS PARTICULAR DRUGSTORE IN ORDER
TO CHECK ABOUT THE PRESFNCF OF CANCER CIGApETTES
OR WAS IT i'~r'ELY I"yCIDENTAL THAT YOU SAW IT?
A ":C. 1'`tIS '4AS MY FIRST EXI'OSUf?E, I THINK, TO
THE CrAf;D, IN THF hFUGSTOF:f:, I THIf:K, WHEN I
SA.4! IT EXHIBITED.
THAT?
t ,r~q~ ~t, a
4T r-.+..6 «.-a o A`v~ ~~.'. n v-~, r. .
.:~ Ir J~^ I~.r~.',~J7
COURI i2EP(,P1 t, I'S
a/
1
Z
3
A Ws.LL, !F I SAID 1967 WOtlLn THAT 8E TOO EVASIVE?
IRL'AL.LY I'0t7LD HATE TO BE PIP:*ZED D01:N.
0 i hJ1 ?-~^T T^YI"aG Tn DRIVE YOU INTO ANY CnnNER AND
IF YOU EinN'T :?rCALL, ti1HY, JUST TELL ME ti;liAT YOU
nI .er.~ S Gt:
l .
DID YOU MAYE A REPORT OF THIS
IVCIDr":T't
A 01', YES. I AL:!AYS D4 ON C(?MPFTITIVE ACTIVITIES.
V4,:IT KINf:' OF QEPJ!`TS DID YOU NORMALLY IMAKE MOST
Dr...'ra?
A Y,ELL, ^": f1Y DAILY REPORT ll.E tiAVE AN AREA FOR
REPORTS FOR COMPETITIVE ACTIVITIES AND SUGGESTIONS
A~V!D THINGS LIKE THAT, A-N0 I AM SURC IMiUST HAVE
rEPrr.,TcD IT .3ECP=.USE IT'S STANDARD PROCEDURE WITH
OUR COMPANY TO t'EP0^T IT.
Q DO ALL THE SALESt1EN MAKE SOMEWHAT S IMI LAR TYPE
REPORTS EVERYDAY?
A p:i, YES. DAILY. A!tD IT'S TO T:AEIf' BEtJEFIT TO
BE ALERT AND TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON It:
THE INDUSTRY.
Q Wi£'2: YOU SAY ITi' S T() T}-PEIR 13E*3EFIT, :'HAT DO YOU
V:':AT t'AY?
IF I SAI~ "';~ tf`;{'IE PnIS~TS", ;!OULD YOU WNIDEP,STtiND
n, Yr:UI H.%''`. A.t;Y ID1SCUSSiC'":S ?:ITH !`,'NY (`F THE
J. '-.~ ~ . lL~: .:. ~: r r : .
~ S
COURT F:LPOR Tf R.S
PEOPLE WORKING TNEFtE AT THE DRUGSTORE ABOUT CANCE
CIGA??ETTES t:!-9EN YOU SAV, THEM?
A DID I HAVE AtdY DISCUSSION? I PROBABLY DID. I
Q
Ps:OLABLY DID. I F1L-AtI, IT WOULD t,E A NOPMAL
TH I t;C FCR NIE TO DO At:D---
;l=3AT D I D YOU SAY? ...A.':Y I DE1`.?
A WELL; I WOULD NORMALLY SAY THIS WITH ANY BRAND:
"HC~!I LONG HAVE YOU HAD THE'M?...14
YOU MUCH DO THEY RETAI L FOR?"
C!'~T11E,:Itdu INFOR!1ATI0;: TO REPORT TO MY COMPANY.
Q D I D YOU MAKE ANY COl1IMENTS COfICERN I P,G THE NAME
"CAtCER" IN CONNECTION WI Tt-I THE C IGARETTES?
A TO THESE PEOPLE?
Q
YES.
A I~1fIN THE DRUGSTORE?
Q YES.
A I AM SURE I SAID "CAtVCER CIGARETTES." I MEAN,
".?01,? LONG HAVE YOU HAD THESE CANCER CIGARETTES?"
THAT IS THE BRAND NAME.
MR. HILLIARD: F"R. MARION, JUST AS A 1,.'ORD
HERE. Dt) YOU ACTUALLY RECALL THE
COr'VCRSATIOIN OR ARE YOU SItsPLY TELL1fJG
iIR. TILCURY WHAT YOU =:1OULD NOf:,HALLY
DO?
T;'C S-lITt:C:SS : NO. I'lti TELLING WHAT I
~ -.~~ ,~~ r,-~~ ~.
C.D e~i~ . ~.'ic~1:: L.t' :a~ ~ ~G. r'...J
COURT I?EPORTk IZ',
~
WOULD N
0
~
kO
tV
Os
I
-,%A
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
NORMALLY DO.
MR. SPAULDIPdG :
YOU SHOULD LIMIT YOUR A;dSWERS
TO WHAT YOU CAN REMEMBER.
THE 1,ITNESS: OH, WELL, I DON'T REt1E'1FER
THE CONVE.fiSATION IN THAT DETAIL.
t"R. MC EtJf:td: IT'S BEEN MY UNDERSTANDING
UP TO THIS POINT, F;R. TILSURY, THAT
ALL OF THIS HAS CEEN SUPPOSITIVE ON
THE wITNESS' PART. IT' S JUST WHAT HE
t:C^MAL1.Y HAS DONE. HE IS P!nT RECALLING
THAT HE RECALLS IT INCIDENT DY INCIDENT
OR WORD E;Y WORD.
ISN'T THAT TRUE, MR. IIARION?
THE tJITNESS: THAT IS TRUE.
T I LSURY : THAT WOULD BE TRUE WITH ALt4OST
ALL OF US. WE COULD NEVER RECALL WITH
THAT DEGREE OF QREC I S I Otd. BUT MY
UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IF HE CANNOT
RECALL PF'ECISELY HE CAN RELATE TO THE
PEST OF HIS KNIGI:'LEDGE WHAT IT 1;AS.
t'R. t1C C!rEN: I AM NOT QUAP,RELii1IG WITH THAT,
RoGcT:.
Q (_:'f TILBURY) ;V!HAT, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, WAS
S .°ID?
!InS ANYn:tiE ELSE WITH YOU AT THE
e 3 . _...~~'.A
COURT RI_PORTEPS
---.~,.,,......,.
T11ait-* ?
A I DOr1'T BELIEVE SO.
I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
FLL t?I: riTT k
.iR. MARION, DO YOU t:ECALL SF'EIPdG
CANCER CIGARETTES DISPLAYED ANYPLACE ELSE?
A YE S. I CAN. WHERE--I MEAN, I F YOU ASKED ME
TO PIt;PGIP~T THE CALLS, I COULDN'T DO IT,
Q ALL RIGHT. OTHER THAN THE POf:TLAttD AREA?
YES. t3UT THAT l!AS MY MAIN AREA.
Q ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL THE TYPE OF CPERATION?
...1:'AS IT A DnUGSTORE?...btAS IT SOME OTHER TYPE
OF RETAI L STOt:E, OR WHAT?
A WELL, I AM SORRY AGAIN. I KNOW I HAVE SEEN THEM,
PUT EXACTLY WHERE ICOULDtv'T TELL YOU.
Q ALL F:I GtiT.
A ... Tllc; TYPE OF STORE.
Q D I D YOU, ON ANNY OCCAS ION, PURCHASE ANY OF THE
CAI-ICEt? CIGARETTES?
A YES. I DID. I PURCHASED TWO PACKS FROM THE
DRUGSTORE.
Q Ff:O!1 THE DRUGSTORE IN LLOYD CENTER?
A YES.
Q . . . Tt(AT YOU RELATED?
A YES.
n 1!riAT i); D YOU DO 1;tI TH THE CIGARETTES?
A hi)I LEP THEM TO OUR C7IMPAtdY.
'~ ~1'. r'9~
.',o.~~.S e 1.VIAl'C.~'
C OU t: T R C P 0 R 1 f(: S
....._~......._._ _.. .,._. . -,., _.., _-~ ~--.-
.....n........-- --~~ x. ,,...w
Q WHO IN PARTICULAR?
A I THINK I JUST SEr4T THEMI TO WINSTnN--R. J.
REYNOLDS Tf)t>A(:CC, VINSTG!,-SALEl1, NORT;f CAROLII-.A.
Q AGAIA1, IS THI S!1 STAt;DARD OPERATING PROCEDURE?
A R1 :'.T.
Q DO YGU K.:r',< W:!AT THEY vID ~tITtf Ti1EM?
A I HAVE NC I DEA .
Q AR E-TF;E I 2 L:.E,0RA T 0R I ES EQU I PPE D TO MAKE AN
Aw,1LYS I S OF C I GAfiETTC. PRODUCTS I N W I t;STON-SALEM?
A THEY PfiOFASLY AF:E, BUT I U'0N' T KPdG14 1tHAT THEY
DO SP; CIFICALLY.
Q YOU GC!N' T KINOW !;HY THEY REQUESTED YOU TO SEND
THE;A I N, OR DO YOU?
A WE SEND IN ALL C0;°3PETITIVE PR0DUCTS.
Q ALL F:1GHT. f~G11, Dn. YOU RECALL THE TItiE OF THIS
Ii:CID: NT WITH RELAT-IOP: TO ANY VISIT THAT WAS
MA[)z:, I SELI LVE, L'Y MR. D. ,d. GROUT, TO THE
PORTLAND AREA IN MARCH OF 1907?
M;2. SPAULDING: 111HEi. YOU SPEAK OF "THIS
Ir:CIDEINT", DO YOU MEAN THE PURCHASE
OF THE CIGARETTES?
?^.F:. TIL:~ UI;Y: YES. TRUE. THAfzK YOU.
A IN ALL P^ni f;BILITY-- !lELL, t{'nE AGAIN I HrtiTi
TO, YOU YNrJ',:, PINPOINT IT. IF YOU ASK ME THAT
. v+
N
Q!-C:;TIt)f: i CCiJLD SAY A!0, I Ch+4"T F:r,LATL IT. BUT
0
c
j-( yL ~ ` Po
.Cw ..i tsa ~! * . O 1...~
COURT RC('Of:Tk G:S
~
N
01
1
I THINK THAT I HAD SENT TaEM IN BEFORE MR.
GfiOUT, BUT I A14 NOT SURE.
Q (.>Y il i:. 7 I L::U1:Y) ALL RIGHT.
A AT TIiE IR r I RST At'F'EAI2ANCE.-- I MEAN, MY F I RST F I RST
i':>'C:;IJRE TO i'riE '-i;/1PaD I'vtGULD HAVE SENT THEt-i IN.
Q ALL RIGHT, t4R. GIE;OUT HAS INGICATED, I WOULD
SJAY FOP T HE REC01;D, I N b:I l,ST('.N-SALEPS, THAT HE
FELT f-IIS VISIT TO THE BEL AIRE PHARMACY IN
G LA V E E: T O t: WA S IN hi J', R C H O F 1907.
w0.;, DO YCU RECALL HIM EEIt:G IN
THE P0RTLAh1D AREA?
A YES.
Q ... ACOUT THAT T I VE ?
A YES.
Q AIND :;.-lY 1lAS HE THERE, AS YOU RECALL IT? WHAT
WAS THE REASGhi FOR H I S BE I NG THERE?
f1R. SPAULDING: ',.'ELL, DO YOU KNOW?
THE 4tITf;ESS: N
WI: L L, ! I 0.
HE DOE SN' T CGNF I JE I N !:E WHY HE
COtSLS INTO A DIVISION, F?UT I DO KNOW THE REASON
trHY THEY ::OR!iALLY CGi,E IN. I T' S PURE EVALUATION
OF i1Y 0PC-.!':AT I OP<.
Q (;Y t11:. TILGL'RY) ALL F:IGHT. WELL, WITH 11HAT
FREQUENCY DID MR.. Gt?dUT CALL ON YOUR DIVISION
I:Uf: I h;C. Ti-:I S PL:F` I?L OF T I'~r, I Pd T fi: !'dORt1AL COURSE
`-n
~r .
c.~ . .x
COUI:T V (:P;) i'Tf. l< ;
~-w
OF BUSINESS?
A I eELIEVE THIS IS HIS FIRST TRIP OR HIS SECOr;D
TRIP--ONE OF THE T.40--HIS FIRST OR SECOND TRIP.
Hr '":DE Ti'0 TRIPS, I CELIEVE, INTO THE PORTLAND
Afie.^,.
Q OVf:!' ''HAT PERIOD OF TI~iE?
A I LE I k'L,S T~lE!?E.
ALL. ItTGHT. AND YOU WERE THERE, AGAIN, H0;! MANY
YEARS?
A TWO YE-ARS Ai'D SEVERAl. 110PdTIFIS.
Q DID ANYONE ELSE CO!:E FROM THE WINSTON-SALEM
OFFICE CF REYNOLDS TO THE PORTLAND AREA FROM
TINE TO TI7"C?
A WFLL, DON GR,bUT, DURI1yG MY PERIOD OF TIME, 1IAS
T:r'-'7 ::CNE f'A*Ni/'+C=ER, fi"<D I:'ELIFV: THAT HE ;:l;S
PROMOTED IMMEDIATELY ALMOST BEFORE I LEFT THERE,
AND THEN B0L HAMMER V!AS HADE THE ZONE MANAGER
OF THAT AREA AND BOD !111F9MER HADE ONE TRIP THERE,
I iiELIEVE.
(~ B E G I N'.-ti ING I N 4FI H E R; ?
A V! II E ?
Q Y E s
.
A PERHAPS MAY. I i4OULD SAY MAY OR JUitE 1967.
SOYlETIPtE IN THAT AREA.
Q ,Ai..!_ F' I~~-!T. ANID WHEN HE CAMIE IN VAF:CH Or- 1167
.cj.- , 1: J+. y H..~+`
CQl1u7 i ` ' ~
1
D I D Y O! 1'I E C T Id I T ti H I M?
A 01i, YES.
Q l!HERL DID YOU tiFET WITH HI1t?
A 1~.':!C'.PJ YOU S"Y '°i:EYOU ARE TALKIt4C. AGOUT DO'~?
a
. . .t,':. C ~.CUT. YCl~.;-i.
A 1+'`:Er:E ID':D I INEET 'rITH HIt4? IN MY OFFICE. IN
NY .()FFICE r':tdL-- YCAti,
Q ALL F:I CHT. HG11 LONG DI D HE SPEt:D I tv THE PORTLAND
!!:F. F.A, AS FAR AS YOU t:N4ti!, ON TH I S PART I C ULAR
CcC,'~s I?
A T'-:r BEST PART OF A t,EEK, I WOULD SAY,
Q D I I? YOU TRAVE L~' I TH 41M ACOUT THE PORT LAND
t. rIG:t'11 . !,'AS T'-IAT T01~Ar:DS THE FIRST OF t1IS
/ L SIT?
A I 31ELIEVE IT 10l!S TO1IARD THE EfdD OF HIS VISIT,
C's_E T I:I t' `! 0 T al) P F,
I~ CLI~:Vt IT ~:tl+.S MOSTLY CALLING ON RETAIt ACCOUNT
A I A:) TRYING TO THINK OF THE DAY VE SPENT TOGETHER,
AF:CA?
A YES. I BFLIEVE- 550.
Q ALL RIG,tT. AND DID YOU ACCOMPANY HIM TG THE
Gc:L AIRE PHARMACY AT ANY TIME?
A r. (` .
1, I Tt4 r1R.
Q AND ;-.HAT SORT OF TR I PS D I D YOU MAKE
GROUT?
j
, .
~ ti .+:. .a .....!
C.OUf?1 Ri; iitTE:l? ;
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSIOtJ WITH HIM RELATING
TO CAt.CEf? CIGARETTES?
3
A YES.
I DiD.
AN[) !11it rd DID THIS DISCUSSIOT+ TAKE PLACE,
. APPfi:O?,I;,ATF:LY :
A E~F f.~;E7 IiC it:FT.
Q ALL RIGHT. HAD HE LY THIS Tltl--- BEEN TO THE
BEL AIRE PHARMACY? DO YOU KNOW?
A RIGHT. RIGHT. HE HAD BEEN.
Q Ai,:~, ',!;IAT WAS SAID BY MR. GF;OUT AttiD ;'FfAT 1tAS SAID
BY YOU, AS YOU RECALL?
A I 1:'ISIT YOU WOULD BE PiORE SPECIFIC.
I DON' T RE~',Ei i~f-R THE CONVERSATION
T:-IF,T CLOSELY, 4"UT HE DID SAY THAT HE WAS AT THE
FEl. Ai :E F'HAFtHIACY ANID THERE 41AS NOT AN Av.FUL LOT
TO BE (~YAIt!EFD BY US IN THIS AREA AND TO STAY AWAY
F{:Oit IT; IT WAS A NON-PRODUCTIVE CALL.
n LID. HE Ext'LAIN WttAT HE MEANT t3Y "Tf;Cf:E VtAS NICT
A LOT TO BE GAINED"?
A t:0. IHi: DI i%tti' T. NOT E: ACTLY.
Q HCV! DID YC:i INTERP;;ET THOSE RE:MARt;S? lJt1AT DIJ
Y~~l.! DO?
A VE: L t. - -
Q ...TttEREAFTEP. THAT 3+AS DIF,FL=REt1T THAN YOU tf:;D
DOi... IN T'-'~: f I~.ST, IF ANYTHIi!; ?
.~,.
~. , ~. ~.e t
t~,
. . ~ . .d !<d V~~ .L. ~" .~. `~
( 0 !.1 i~ I
I
BEST
COPY
Ril. T.I. .:' !:OT :If:1, T, iA T 1 i lh TlIr1T ':: AS
L'!-. 0 ' L. J 1-':S T1"' U': Ti.i- 1', 'i P.:(1i'Lt., `ii 1r) i1iP A f:t.l4 T LY
T..'^_*
~
i:-'.1i L;' !~i' ':U T S :C 'J T.'I :,^ ; JUST !;T:.Y
;~ Ti:: ;, ir~7 CAN Cl.tJ DO TO
r_ f::'_`:.D' i CCAC'."i'J CC;1P/\!:Y.
i,':!` - ~I1i.fJ L I1: :' TO ADi.1 T~iA T THI ~
I Sp :: ! T A.: :.v: .. % L Tril t: +. TtiE: F At:: !.Ai:Y CALLS
Ti;ltT 1;f' L'n NCT ;;A';E S1':rLY 3ECl,USc THEY ARE
r i , ^ ; c~1 V CT IVZ
Q }!;r.J 1'C:: CALL?
A A CALL '.:HEPE!'F C; :: "T ; iE':CitA::D T Sr. CUR PRODUCTS.
SEE, THIS IS PRIMAFtILY OUR FUt:CTICN, tSE;2CHAt;DISIN
WE .tir:VE DISPLAYS THAT WE SET UP. PEOPLE WHO
A?E It:TERESTEi: Iti PRCt+.CTIt:G CL!.^. PRODUCT, WHO ARE
"ILLIt;G TO CC.CPEi.ATE It; CUILDIf:G DISPLI:1'S,
HItP:CLIf:G A FULL LINE OF OUR M;'^CHANDISE AND
SELLI:IC IT ACTIVELY, THi=SE ARE PRODUCTIVE CALLS.
Q ALL f IGHT. WAS THE [s: L P;I:3-'- P'iitRftACY ONE :'HERE
Pf:ODU::TS t'f THE REYNOLDS TOV-ACCO COMPANY h'EFtE
n"E ItiG SOLD?
A I COULDN'T TELL YOU. I Hl.V:: t:E:V:'R EEEfi ON THAT
CALL. .~'~:'P ::;:~ TLY r EYt!JLUS -^ E'UCTS 1:: E IliC,
SCLf) ':;irfcL'.
HLL i'IGfBT. !:~:~tt YCU SAY "!:IM':-6'20DUCTIVr", DID
'.'t'; .'l '; I T.:'-'.,^.LL`f Tc;AT THAT f'CI':3 ON THE
'T' -"t
/ ,t''1~' -- ~ 7 r.
f y . -'.! . .~. . _ , v . . A. ~ r
I
C nt,.
1
REYNOLDS PRODUCTS COULD NOT BE SOLD, OR HOW DO
2 YOU MEAN THAT?
3 A OI-f, ABSOLUTELY NOT. 1tE COULDN'T RESTRICT WHETHER
4 HE DU'YS Oit SELLS 'CUf; PRODUCTS. I tIEAN, THAT IS
5
6
NOT IN IT. WE HAVE JUST X ANICUNT OF TINE Ai1D
t;E ti,iVE SO HANY CALLS THAT 1!E HAVE TO MAKE, SO
IT'S UP TO US TO USE GOOD DISCRETION IN PROPOR-
TI0:JIPLG THIS AMOUNT OF TIME IN AREAS WHERE THEY
WOULD BE MORE PRODUCTIVE. I-;F TRY TO 14AKE OUR
ROU,';DS ONCE EVER Y T.10 P10NITHS AND A SALESMAN
MAY t-3AVE 40 0CALLS At~D, NATURALLY, I F A CALL I S
NON-PRODUCTIVE WE l1OUL.i} 'PASS IT UP IN PREFERENCE
TO A CALL THAT 14OULD BE t,*.ORE PRODUCTIVE. IT'S
JUST UTILIZATIOM OF TIME. YOU WOULD DO IT AS
VELL AS I.
Q N'OW, ON WHAT TYPE OF ACCGUNJS 1:OULD YOU CALL?
WOULD YOU CALL EVERYPLACE, LITERALLY, WHERE THE
PRODUCTS OF fEYN'OLDS k;E.RE BEING SOLD?
A YEAH. IF THEY SOLD CIGARETTES !!E 41OULD LIKE TO
BE THERE AND HELP THEM MCRCHAt;DISE TtiE PRODUCT.
Q FEGA"DLESS OF H01,: SMALL?
A C1H, YEAH. WHAT V,'E ATTEt9P T f_D TO DO IS TO PR0IM0TE
OUR (,PAFIDS P.tJD : Y DOING THAT '~'E TRY TO INCREASE
THE ;.AAJ' S Prr OF I T--MAKE I T ADVAOTAGEOUS FOP. H I M
TO SG LL CIt',An&"-. . T Tt:S. THIS IS OUf'i--
ey
f".-l F'~
.~~e! ~. ~ .~:. .. . . . rr....
'COURT t:EPOPl F i:;
,_..A.,.,....~s..4--..~..,.,-.,.~..,.,~........,,
1 Q D I D MR. GROUT QUOTE THE PR I NC I PAL S OR ANYE3ODY
2 ELSE THAT HAPPENED TO E:E AT THE BEL AIRE PHARMACY
3 AS TO t!tfAT THEY-SAID DURIP!G THE CONVERSATION?
4 A NOT THAT I RECALL.
5 Q ...4.'t'.I LE MR. GROUT t;AS THERE?
6 A NOT TF-iF,T I f:CCALL.
7 Q DID MR. KESETI ACCOMPANY MR. GROUT TO THE SEL
8 AIRE PHARMACY?
9 ATHEY FtAnE THE CALL TOGETHER.
10 Q t4HY DID tiR. KESETI GO RATHER THA17 YOU ON THIS
11 1 'PARTICULAR OCCASION?
12 I A WELL, DON GROUT WAS WORKING WITH KESETI FOR THE
13 PURPOSE OF EVALUATir~G.HIS PERFORMANCE, AND AS I
14 LATER LEARNED HE WAS COP.SIDErING HIM AND ,'1YSELF,
jg COTH, FOR llPGRfi,DIMG FOR ' PROA;OTI ON. AND THI S
16 , WAS A NORMAL THING. HE MADE A RETAIL CALL. AND
17 WHAT NORHALLY TRANS PI RED I S THAT THE SALESt4AN' S
18 wORt:, HIS ACTIONS 1aITHIN THE STOr.E, ARE EVALVATED
19 BY THE SUPERVISOR.
20
I DO IT MYSELF. IN FACT, I STILL
21 DO IT.
22 Q 1:E!'E L'OT'r~ YGU hNn '1 ;. KESETI PROMOTED SHORTLY
23 AFTEP MR. C,ROUT'S t'ISIT IN MAl:Ct1 1907?
24 A u H Hl'J E1
.
25 Q W;±n.T IPAS THI` T I t:E INITCRV,1L, APPROx I 1+.ATE LY?
COURT REPOk1LhS
.,.......-........... ~ . ~ ,,..,_ . . ,-. .,_~... .~ . __ _ _ . ,.. _ -..-~- , ,
3u
~ A I WAS PROMOTED BY, I f3ELIEVE, AT THE ENO OF JUNE,
2 A~~D ~!HEN I LrFT--
3 Q THE Sfc?1E YEt.r? .
4 A YES. ...14HEN I LEFT FRANK WAS PROMOTED TO
5 DIVIS iQl`: MANAJER, . H'E TOOK MY PLACE.
.6 Q I ScF. OK. ALL RIGHT. DID EITHER MR. GROUT OR
7 M1: . KLSET I SAY ANYTH I NG THAT WAS SA I D TO THEM
8 BY Snl4CONE WORKING AT THE BEL AIRE PHARMACY?
9 A V()T THAT I RECALL.
10 Q FiAVE YOU l;EE'N IN GEL AIRE PHARIHACY YQUP,SELF?
11 A N0 .' I H AV G N' T..
~
12 Q. H!',VF YOU BEEr: AT TH E GARDEN HOME PHARMACY?
13 GARDEN HOME PHARMACY?... HAVE YOU BEEN I N THAT ONE?
14 A I HAVE NEVER HCARD OF IT. I ttiAY HAVE fEEN, BUT
15 '
I DO",'
T RECALL BEING THERE.
16 Q ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU ACQUAINTED. WITH STAN HARTMAN,
17 IRVING HUPPIN OR MR. STEINi3ACH?--HOIrlARD STEINBACH?
19 DO YOU KNOW ANY OF THEM AT ALL?
19 A h^ . !4rio ARE THEY?
20 Q THEY ARE PRINCIPALS IN THE PACIFIC TOBACCO COMPANY
21 THOSE NAMES ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH
22 Yt`iJ?
23 A t+,'~SCLUTELY ~:OT.
24 Q YOU HAVE NOT HAD A COlv'VERSAT I 01`! W'I TH THE"1, AS FAR
25 AS YOU l<.P.;n'.,? 0
N
0
6 0
~ ~' ~° ~. 0 ~
N
v
N
COURT REP() RT FRS
A NOT AS FAR AS I KNOW.
Q NObJ, THEf?E IS ALSO MENTION IN THE ANS4dERS TO
INTFhROCATORIES OF A MR. D. E. COOf'ER. WHAT WAS
i-l I S J O n I N 19 6 7?
A H!: 1;Au A SALESP4aN.
Q I S HE STI LL I rJ 'C!".TLA~iD, OR ItHERE I S HE?
A TIHE LAST I HEARD OF HE WAS. I HAVE NO IDEA
ti';fERE HE I S PdOtil.
0 ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU DISCUSSED PACIFIC TODACCO
0^ CANCER CIGARETTES WITH "iR. COOPEft?
A I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE.
p MR. A. G. CASS. ;.AS HE APdOTHER SALESt4AN IN
1967?
A y;-S,
Q I UNDFRsTArtD NE IS t:o:! Ir: SIRMINGhfAr1, ALAMMIA?
A YES.
t!AS HE PRCl~SeTED Stlt?^TLY TtiERF.AFTEP.,, IN 1967, AS
VELL?
A UH HUH. YES. HE WAS.
Q P."1D TO WHAT POSITION I,.AS tiE PROMOTED?
A ASSISTI`.INT DI\'ISICN MANAGER.
Q tl^1' ArOl1T A P9R. T. S. t,HITE? 4'AS FI E. Y:OftKIfLG
AS A sr,LeS:IIAra I r: ' 67?
A Yt:S. t~E t;'AS A Sr~LES~;ar~~.
Q
i'<I) HE I i NO L^S,:rF'S'. !:!I Tti ('.L"-YP,'C)L.I?S, THE ANS!t'ERS
-r «
,0 i,-
i...~,
COUR1 IZEPC:R T [:I, S
1
2
HAVE IrIDICATED.
A UH 11UH.
31Q
4
5
.6
~
5i-tifi.rl~~1~, t Li,}~ WHrnl:.' }1Lr. IS
n0r-l' T KNOW.
CDURT f: E POf:1 f R`i
Ir!1-IE RE I S' HE NOV ? DO YOU HAVE ANY I DEA?
A ":0. I D0":'T.
Q HAVE YOU DISCUSSED 11ITti EITHER MR. BASS OR MR.
'+J:ITL' OR ANY OTHER SALES}'ANI ANY CONTACTS THEY
;~ I GHT HAVE FiA7 i1I Tti CA'SCER C I GAT;ETTES?
A I DON'T RECALL.
Q Hr,Vr YOU tiAD ANY DISCUSSIONS 11ITH MR. JUDGE
FOR A WHILE; "s_'T W;-tAt; 1-1E IS CCIINC= NC13=l, I DON'T
K IY 0 ;4.
Q r . M. CAMPEAUX?
A CAM "c.::UX?
Q CAt':PEAUX?
A UH HUti. "
CIC}ARE'TTE STTES OR P1ICIFIC TOBACCO?
ri.JOL;T C
"~fi,~'~CE~
A NO. N 0, S I t'. .
Q rC?!1, COULD -YOU TELL ME WHEPE '1R. R. E. LARSON
IS AT THE PRESENT TIME?
A NO. I CAPI' T. HE WAS IN SAN FRANC I SCO, I 8EL I EVE,
Q
C-F.-ill-('-()-0?
A i ~l 0 . C-A-r-4-P--E-A-U--X.
Q '.''!iE.!?C IS IIZE !%T THE PRESENT TI'lE? DO YOU KNOW?
A NO. IDOP1'T. , HE.4!AS DIVISInii l.1Ar.AGER IN
1 Q J. A. STILL--S-T-I-L-L--JR.?
2 A NEVER HEARD OF HIFS.
3 Q L. J.' SWAtiCY, I THINK IT 'IS?...S-44-A-N-E-Y?
4 A I DOtl' T RE CALL THAT NAME.
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Q D. A. PRYOR?
A DON PCYOR? YEAH.
',!f{0 I S HE?
Q
.A HE WAS A SALES};AN FOR US IN EUGENE. WHERE HE IS
r, o W, I D~ON' TKV-i 0:4.
I DON'T BELIEVE HE IS WITH
L15 APti Y MC R E.
Q t1. E. SULLIVAPd.
Q N. E. SULLIVAN? P.O. I D(3td'T RECALL THAT NAME.
L. RAYBURN?
f'hYi3URtJ?
Q RAYCSU(:t1. YES. R-A-Y-S-U-E;-N.
A h0, SIR.
0 GOES;d'T RING A BELL?
A IvO, SI".
J. R. COFFIN?
COFPIN'?
YE S
Q
A
Q
A NO.
^ C. !,'. 12 I'f'TCt:?
A N0.
',r . S'AULD ING : C. W. t-JtaAT?
1.~ ~, 4» e s+t
"~ J. YiL ~ ~. ~ / , 4;h
t~ ~1~~ li ~ ...
CGURT R Ef'J1:. 1 F I:S
1 THE WITNESS: RITTER.
2 MR. TILBURY: R-I-T-T-E-R.
3 R4R. SPAULDING: I KNOW ABOUT A R-I-C-T--t'-R,
4 C
lw
.
. .
5 MR. TILrURY:. MAYF1E THAT'S THE SAME ONE.
6 MR. SPAULDi:'!G: THIS COULD 8E THE SAME ONE.
7 THE WI TNESS : WHAT 1;AS THAT? WHAT WAS THE
8
1 NA`iE ?
.
9 MR. SPAULDING: A LIST THAT t:AS SUPPLIED TO
10 ME SAYS C
R-I-C-T-U
R
.
-
.
11 1 THE Vc I TNESS : R-I -C-T-- I DON' T--THE NAME
' 12 . DOESN'T RING A'F3ELL.
: 13 Q (CY MR. TILBURY) YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT NAMEO
~~ 14 EITFiER, DO YOU?
-
is A N
O
S I F;
,
i
. .
' 16 Q t1
A
ROBINSON?
; .
.
i 17 A I DOPI' T RrC(;Gts I ZE THAT NA^tE.
~~ Q I', . D. SF01.':,?
19 A IDOt.' T-RECDGtdIZE THAT.
20 0 IS CAMELS THE LEADING SELLEP. AS FAR AS NON-FILTER
21 CIGARETTES IN' THE UNI TED ST ATCS?
22 A TO N.Y 0:0'-!LFDGE IT IS.
23 Q Af'.D DOES '.!I t.STON R I?'1G NUMBER ONE AS FAR AS SALES
24 OF ALL CiCAr;ETTES OF ALL KItIDS?
25 A R IGH T
. ~
0
r. y ..~
.. ~ .
. N
O
t ~
'~/~ a
li
.~
... i..
CnURT 6'EF1ORTE<<S
..~ ...«-,~...-».. ~.~ ... - w. ,- . . ,~.. , .
Q AND WHERE DOES SALEM STAND AS FAR AS ALL
CIGARETTES STAND?
A I I!'AGI'f4E E1-Z~CUT FOURTH Oi', FIFTH.
Q HAVE YOU HAD A+< UPPCRTUN I TY TO LOOK AT--
A YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CURRENTLY?
Q YES. I F.M TALKING AS4UT CUR pEStiTLY.
ttAVc YOU HAD AN OpPORUTNITY TO
REVIE~' THE ANSWERS TO THE INTERROGATOItIES GIVEN
FY YCUry C0c1PA,!Y IN CQtiINIFCTION WI Tti THI S LITIGA-
T I 0 N?
A HAVE I SEEN THEM?
Q YES, SIR.
A P.O. I HAVEN'T.
Q !!AS IT YOUR SUGGESTION FOR MR. GROUT TO VISIT
THE BEL. F,I~'.E PHAn!:1ACY?
A I DIDN'T KHOW IT EXI.STED.
Q
SPAULDING: I TAKE I T YOUR ANSV.ER IS
nNQ,l?
THE WlITPdESS : NO. EXCUSE ME.
0 (bY "";i:. TILi:URY) :;HE1s' HE FIRST CAME TO PORTLAND
1tP:D I:'J YOt:R If-tITIAL DISCUSfiIOIN DID HE INDICATE
Y,P;Y Iia'f LE:EST If: CJ`yNCER CIGARETTES AT TH.AT TIt+F?
A HE DIDN'T INDICATE' IT TO ME.
Q r%0 Y(:111
~T s~ ~6 `.." 4
¢ji
~
K(,^0;; WHY HE 1SAnE THE 'f+',IP TO THE CEL AIRE
O
C
3
. ~
~
_ . . . .. .. _. ._ . .. ~
COURT {:E POftTE RS
I
PHARMACY?
A I DO N0ld.
OH, DO YOU M7AtJ TO THE 3EL AIRC
PH1'-~t^.i1!'tiCY? .
Q YES, SIR.
A P! 0 .
I HAVE N,() IDEA rIHY HE DID IT. I 1?ELIEvE
IT :.',1S JUST tU,?IiSG THc COtIR,E ()F NORMAL UInRK
THAT Hr- h+AS THERE.
Q'D0 YOU KN41! HOW t'ANY OTHER CALLS HE MADE ON
RETAI !.. ACCGUNTS SUCH AS TH I S PHARMACY?
A OH, I At1 SURE THEY PUT IN A FULL DAY--A. FULL
E I GHT F10URS. NORMALLY WE-- !1CLL, I DOtv' T KNOW.
:~R. SPAULDINIG: WELL, D0 YOU KNOW?
THE WI Tt3ESS : NO., I DON' T KN04t. N0. I AM
SOF:r-:Y.
Q (BY !1R. TILf3URY) ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU A MEMBER
OF AINY--SPEAKIr.G OF YOU PERSONALLY--ANY TRADE
' ASSOCIATION DEALI.NIG !1JITH THE TCi;ACCO INDUSTRY
I N ANY WAY?
A R I G H T ir 0W?
Q YES. I
A P: 0. I A t i N0 T.
Q DO YOU ATTE.-,J CoNvyNITIONS IN WHICH OTHER F'ERSOIVIEL
IN Tt-iE TOuACCO INDUSTRY'ARE PRESEINT?
25 1 A 0 t-1, Y7 S' .
i.
J :~i... ~r-~
. 6 L1...
COl1R7 kF p O(<1 i 1. ,
'^'ror~ ~ ~.~. . ........ .,.. .. ...-.... .. .._.. _<--.. . ~.~y~J,^t..~/`~w'~.-
1
3
Q WHAT KIND OF CONVENTIONS DO YOU ATTEND?
A 1tELL.,'1 ATTEND THE T.A.T.D., I-lHICH IS THE TEXAS
ASSOCIhTIO'J.
Ai:I: YOU TALKING ABOUT CURRENTLY?
...CURRENTLY. YES.
6
A TEX~1S ASSOCIATION C~F.TOSACCO DEALERS.
-A2C THESE RCTAIL DEALEnS YOU ARE SPEAKING OF
AtlD D I STt'.I ~UTORS?
,
A N0, WHOLESALERS.
Q WHOLESALE DISTRIBUTORS?
ANYTHING ELSE?
A N.A.T.D., I ATTENDED ONE OF THOSE. ASSOCIATION
OF TOBACCO DEALERS. AND I ATTEND-- THIS IS
Ir1 rSY PRESENT CAF'ACITY: THEN I DIDN'T.
lSR. HILLIA,-D: BY "T1-iEN", 1967?
T H E tI I T N E S S: ...1967.
Q (!:Y `1F:. TI L!3URY) 1967? HHOW OFTEN DO YOU ATTEND
THE N. A. T. D Co;dVENT I CN?
IT ::rS THE FIryST T1t4E IN I3 YEARS THAT I DID.
Q t:';-lE~! DID YOU GO THE FIRST TIt1F?
A TWO Y,":.11r S--
Q ...,AFTE-R THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
A Al~`;:UT T1!".) Y-FARS AGO.
.
Q 1.r6i~:t'C !:1.45 IT HELD?
A 111 E'L'%r:ID,'t.
Lf r, 3~I ~^ j'V 0
~y t._~".+ rr .rai! `rF ('-1
(: G it !''1 i; C!';_) P ' E I; S
I
WERE THERE REPRESENTATIVES FRO'9 OTHER TOBACCO
1. MANUFACTURERS THERE?
3 A YES.
4 Q ":C:ST OF TH Etl ?
5 A Uii F;I;H.
6 TriEY REPn-SE-ENTED?
7 A U?i, HUci
8 Q IN 1aS7 DID YOU ATTEi4D CONVENTIOt:S OF ANY KIND?
A NO.
Q wrF'I: TEt4Rr OCCASIONS IN jlHICit YOU HAD INFORMAL
MEETINGS WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER TOBACCO
C0i"1PAta I E S ?
SPAULDING: YOU MEAN INFORMAL?
!-'R, TILCURY: INF"ORt1AL, YES. OTHER THAN
THAT CUNVEi1TI Ct!,
A YOU MEAN MEETING THt3 ON THE TRADE?
Q (C>Y t+P. TILBURY) .. AT ANY PARTICULAR PLACE?
A 0;i, I t;bULD RUr`? INTO OUR COtFPfiTITCrS FROM TIME
TO TIP+E Ot~ THE TRADE. IT WASN'T A PREDETERMINED
TtII::G 11E tilGH'T GE ClQTt-1 f1A4:ING THE CALL AT THE
Sh.`.E TIi;E OR MiEETIN'G EACH OTHER AT THE JOi3VER'S
Q_ F,t!Y t"r£TINCS HELD AT ANY SORT OF INTERVALS
1 IT:1 A;!Y C;::PRCr'SENTATIVES OF ANY MAJOR TOi3ACC0
C()tirA ;:I E:S?
J~;"'Q n'°[r r
J~+~.~.j ! Y+~~.. ~ fw l+~ ..~ h.~~+
C0 Uf:-r P .-) hI L rs
`;Vol,
A NO, S I R. WE DON 'T DO THAT.
Q WERE YOU ACQUAI'.TED :tITH A MR. f3ELKNAP, I RELIEVE,
FROM SAN FRANCISCO?
A BELKPJn.P? NO. I DON'T T'rlINK SO.
DID YOU Kt101a ANY OF THE nERSONNEL WHO t:'Or.r.ED
FOR TFiE TOBACCO INDUST'Y OR REPRESC#NT THEN IN
A N Y WAY?
A' NO. i DON' T E3ELI EVE SO.
Q WERE THERE REPRESENTATIVES FROM ANY TOBACCO
ORGAt.I?_ATION WHO CAME INTO OREGON' FROt1 TIME TO
TIr1E, LIKE THE N.A.T.D?
A NO. NO. I T tlASN' T A CCNVENT I ON TOUIN. YOU KNOW,
VE NEVE[! HAD A CONVEfJTIOFd THERE ;1HILE I WAS
THERE.
Q ALL RIGHT. I AM TRYING TO rROAt?i:fd IT OUT, h;OT
INCLUDING JUST LI~~ITIPlG IT STRICTLY TO CONVENTION
WERE THERE REPRESENTATIVES FROM
ANY GROUPS OF--IN THE TOBACCO SPHFRf, THAT ON
OCCASIONS CAME INTO,OREGON?
A OH, t1ELL, ROGER, IF THEY DID, THEY DIDN'T INFARM
ME OF IT. TIFiEY MAY HAVE COME AND THEY MAY HAVE
GO":E, UUT 1`aAVr r.G Yl10'.'LEDGE.
;-.rlD HERE AGAIN I SHOULD SAY I HAVE
NO KNO;;LEDGE OF IT', REALLY.
Q ALL RIGHT.
j.
=2 0
i ~.~
! ~,~,y
DOES YOUR COk1PANY, AS FAR AS YOU KNn;!
w .,~ ..~ .:. 6
C.O U P ' R C f' 0 h T F f: S
I
2
3
4
5
DTSTRII3UTF 'AP:Y PUBLICATIONS WHICH EMANATF FROM
T'-!f TO^ACCO IrdSTITUTE?
A PR!'SEt,TLY?
Q
OY.. . , . PP,ESrf3TLY?
A I G:.i".Sc THEY WnULD. EXCERPTS. I AM SURE THAT
THf?Y :`1.
Q DIn THrY Ih! 2967?
A I DON'T RECALL. I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
WERE THERE ANY KIND OF PUPLICATIONS THAT YOU
WOULD QCCIISICNALt_Y GIVE--EITHER FREnUEI1TLY OR
INFRE.OUETJTLY-TO DISTRIBUTORS L`fi RETAILERS IN
' THE PORTLAtJD AREA; THAT I S, IIR ITTEN PU(3L I CAT I ONS
DrALI!7G 11ITH THE TOBACCO INDUSTiZY OR ANY HEALTH
ASPECTS OF S!1OKIPlG?
[!R. SPAULCIN't=: THAT HE t1C)ULD GIVE TO
DISTRIDUTORS?
MR. TILBUP.Y: YES.
A I DO°1fT RECALL ANY.
Q (BY JF'.. TILBURY) OR DID ANYBODY WORKING UNDER
YOUR SUPEt',V I S I Ort DO TH I S, AS FAR AS YOU RECALL?
A I DON'T RECI.LL ANY.
Q Do YOt1 RECALL P;NY PU"LICATIUr1S DISTRIE?UTED It1
THE PORTLAND I',R'EA BY A?dYi3CDY RrPRESENTINIG.
REYNOLDS?
A r: n .
~+r ,e,.;1
~ ~I,
~b
COU F: T 1: F P 0 R i E i: S
Q HAVE YOU SE_NI ANY OF THE PUBLICATIONS CF THE
cUUrscrL FoR T03ACCO F;CSEARCN?
A WELL, IF I S11tJ ONE OF THEIM I COULD TELL YOU
V4tiET;iLG I HAD SEEN IT OR N-OT, f'sUT I CAN','T RECALL.
tli R. SF'A ULDIitG; !~ELL, IF Y^'J KN0VI.
(C0r;TI!,'!!It:G) ;t0. .1 ;)r,N'T RI:CA,LL IT.
Q
(DY TI LBURY) ALL R I GHT. HAVE Y.^.U PEP.SO~dALLY
SEEft ANY PUBLICATION OF THE TOBACCO INSTITUTE?
WH.".T, FOR I NSTANCE?
Q ;;'YT:tI NG .
A AN r'1l"FUL LOT OF LITERATURE COMES OVEh t1Y DESK
AiND I READ A LOT OF L I TERATURE AND I D0WT KNOW
. ANYTHIi<G SPECIFICALLY; BUT I h".11Y HAVE. I AM
SURE I HAVE.
Q OK. INSOFAR AS IT RELATES TO TOF!'CCQ. S:HAT nIl:D
OF PUeLICATIONS DO YOU RECEIVE IN THE COURSE OF
TiiE '':AIL?
A OUR C0"P/lNY TP.IES TO KEEP US Ir<FO!?MED. GET
THE PROS A1,°D COP'S--EVE!?YTH I NG THAT I S BET NG SA I D--
PU::LICATIOP:S WHAT THE SURGEON-GENERAL HAS S/1I0
AND %:HAT THI,:--1?NAT TFdE AP.TITHE:SI S OF IT I S
I~~ET THE PULL SPFC7S?lJt1 OF IT.
Q A L L P. I G f-i T. !d C) l' , H 0':d P0 E S I T C 0 ME' I N? I S I T I N
Sa,AE KI ND OF HOUSE PE f' I OD I CAL oft-_
A ... AS I N F 0Rtt ^.T I 0t: .
COURT i:(=1'OI:I Ck5
I Q ... OR 13ULLET I N OR WHAT?
2 A AS It:FOF;l;ATIO*'. TO !tE. IT C0MES IN IN MY NORMAL
3 HA I L
.
4 Q DOES IT CCt7E FROM THE t'CYNGLDS COMPANY ITSELF?
5 A IT CCi:ES IN A REYNOLDS ENVELOPE I N MY NORMAL
6 MAI L
.
7 Q ALL RIGHT. DO YOU GET IT FROM At: Y OTHER
S ASSOCIATION Of: GP.OUP?
9 A NO, SIR.
10 Q ...TH ;aT YO4l CAN THINK OF?
11 A S I t:
NO
,
.
12 Q WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PUBLICATIONS BY TITLE THAT
13 TtiIS It;FORMATI01. '14OULD APPEAR IN?
14 A IF I HAD Ki:M!N THAT YOU WERE GOIN G TO ASK t1£
15 THAT C[)ESTION I COULD HAVE CHECKE D IT.
16 t4R. SPAULDING : NO. JUST IF YOU 1:N4V!.
17 '
I
A CC0N
TI?dUING) I DON
T KNOW.
18 Q (BY ?rR. TI Lut1RY) ARE THERE ANY PtEVSLt'TTFRS OR
19 MAGAZINES OR TRADE JOURNALS THAT ARE t'Uf;LISIiED
20 BY ?Ht: RrYFlOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY AND 1'tilCll YOU
21
RECE I VE Ai:D, I F S0, WHAT AR E THEY?
22 A I^ECLIVE_ ''T'-iE `"ER.CtI~±.1;DISCR". THIS IS A C:O1^.PANY
23 PAi'E!t. A;;CIT ?'L1.t.S OF M,ERCHA,f)DISIrJG ACHICVEMrNT
24 OF THE VA1? I OUS f'ECPLF T1-1RCUGHOUT THE CC."PAt4Y.
25 T GENERAL INFnPr!11TI0":
;
Oi-I
IT
!~^ C
VES
JU ~
?
,
,
,
L
S 0
N
O
~
CUURT hEF'O{> 7L1?S
... .r _.:- ~ .
.. _ . . _. ... r__ .
I OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE COMPANY.
~ HOW OFTEN DOES THAT REACH YOU?
3 A I GI"T I T. ABOUT ONCC A MONTH.
4 Q DOES IT CONTAIN ARTICLES ON OCCASIONS TELLING
5 Af',OUT HEALTH ASPECTS OF SMOl:ING?
6 A YES. I BELIEVE IT DOES. I CAN'T PINPOINT ONE.
~ Q WOULD THERE JE ANYTtiING OTHER THAN "THE MERCHAN-
8 DISER" THAT ;-:OULD COME IN AS A REGULAR THING
9 FROM. REYNOLDS?
10 A I CA.N'T THINK G: AJ`Y'OTl1ER ONE.
11 MR. SP!',ULnING : HOW ABOUT A PAYCHECK?
12 Q (BY MR. TILBURY) HOPE SO?
13 A YES, SIR.
14 WOULD COPIES OF "Tt-lE tIERCHANnISEP," !3E GIVEN TO
15 T':-!E D I.`'iTR iBi1T4ftS Oi' JOBBEp S.di1() HANDLE Rk YNOLDS
16 PRODUCTS IN THE PORTLAND AREA?
17 A IT REALLY HAS NO INFORIMATION THAT WOULD INVOLVE
18 T!-!EM. I T' S S T^ I rTLY A COt9PANY-- I T' S A COMPANY
19 NEWSLETTER.
20 Q DO YOU KNOW ANYONE 1IHO ?!ORtCS FOP. THE TOBACCO
21 I1:STITUTE?
22 A PE :SOiiALLY, NO.
23 Q HI+1'L YOU EVE!'P rNCCUNTEf?ED THEX AS DISTINGUISHED
24 Ff;O~? KNOWING THEM PERSONALLY? ~
0
25
AA tt0 . N
0
4s
r ~
3 N
00
-1 ay.. N
t
CUURT I<Ef :) R"f F('.'-)
Q HAVE YOU MET TIIE'1 CN OCCAS IONS?
A NO, SIR.
Q IN THE rvoRTH',±EST--VELL, LET'S SAY IN THE PORTLAND
AREA, SIr~CZ YOU ::jcP
C THE QIVISIt?N .tAIiAGEP, WAS
REYNOLDS THE NUii^c*2 Ot:E SELLER?
A SELLER?. . . YOU 'MIL"A'! CO,'IPAIMY?
Q YI:S, S I R .
A ... P.EYI:CLD S? YES.
1-;HO 1rfAS t'lUMSFR TWn?
A AHE~:I CF.°' TQi:ACCCt CCt4Pl`tiNY.
Q
HOW AB'JUT PiUiSFii'4; 1"IHP.EE?
A WELL, PROE3A13LY P!iILIP 11OF;RIS.
Q ARE T;-?E RE PUBLICATIONS THAT WOULD SHOW THE
RELATIONSHIP OF THE VARIOUS COMPAtdIES IN THE
^:CF:Tti',1EST AS FAR AS THEIR SALES OF CIGARETTES?
A NOT THAT I CAN RECALL.
Q I-tC!! DOFS C"!:: K1`:^':l, THEN, ttt-1AT THE SALES ARE?
COULD YOU FIND THIS INFOR*'ATIOi! JUST THRnUGH
THE STATE TAX I;`'FORMATIO14? IS THAT THE SOURCE?
A .N;ELL, !"r{AT 14E DC) IS TAKE COMPARATIVE SALES
FIGURES AT JOrBEER S, AND ItF HAVE TI-irIR PFF',MISSION
TO 00 TH^^tJGli---TH"SE ARE SELECT JG`::`3Ei',S T HP{)UG!!-
r:;,'T THE GO THROUGH INVOICES AND
S.ECORD THE ".CVE."IrNTS OR THE FUI:CHIi;SES OF THEIR
;.±'.!1 !L S h0":Tt; ; Y '.jc?NTH OR ON A TI-St-'r E-ttOr:Tlt
COURT kCI'o f l Cf2S
AND TH I S I NF(?Rt;AT I ON t S SUE3M I TTED TO OUR PEOPLE--
OUR AIARKETIt;G PEOPLE IN W1rSSTOFI-~SALEM AND THEY
SEND US A REPORT ON HOW VtE STAN[),
Q DO YOU DCTERMINE WHAT THE SALES OF YOUR
COt1PFTITORS I`,!'E?
A BY TNIS INFC.^,MATIOPy.
Q I SC~:. THAT !IOULU SN0t1 PURCHASfS THAT THEY F4ADE
OF COMPETITIVE t3Rr^.f`1DS, AS WELL AS THOSE OF
RrYtdOLDS' ?
A THAT' S RIGHT.
Q Ho4r MANY DISTRIBUTORS IWOULU THERE HAVE f?EEN IN
1967 IN THE PORTLAND AF;EA?...AP!'ROXIMATELY?
A FIFTY-FIVE, &Q, MAYBE. MIGHT i3E MORE OR LESS.
JU ST SO I AM US I fdG THE TERM CORRE'CTLY, I S THAT
THE PROPER TiRf:?. ..''nI STRI PEJTOR"?
A WE CALL THEN DIRECT ACCOUNTS.
Q CK. AND tiOlr DO YOU DEFINE A. DIRECT ACCOUNT?
VF;O !.'OULD BE COVERED IN THAT DIRECT ACCOUNT?
A A L I t'FCT ACCOUNT I S ONE WHO RECE I VES THE
MERCI-IAiJDISE FROM OUR COMPANY. DIRECTLY. THEY,
IN TUr N, STAMP THE t-iFi Ci-IAivr)IS~_ AND U1STF:I3UTE IT.
Q C:K . COULD A DI RFCT ACCOUt;T ALSO
SELL AT RLTAI L?
A I f:Op.,' T nt'L T i:V:' THEY NNORMALLY DO, BUT SOME
DI'-:FCT ACCOUNTS DO: YES.
T!-iFP.E 1IA.S A PRL'G CtlAI c. THAT T4L'R r"
.! /. a
~-<
COUh f~'F F'O! f' f
. . .._ . ,... . . . . t r ~ , .
46
I Y1AS.A DIRECT ACCOUNT AND THEY HAD RETAIL--OR THEY
2 HAD RETAIL OUTLETS.
3 Q IS IT FF:EED ftYt~R?
4 A YES. FRrD t1YE f;, FRED MYER COMPANY WOULG E>E
5 COtiSIt`r~`.Ert7 Tf!;,T.
~ Q ALL R I:;:3T, A+fU A S FAP. AS THE Gr:INr r,AL OVf.'i'ALL
7 CATE6GRY, THEN 1:0ULD A DI STRIGUTGf', SE THE CORRECT
8 TERM FOR SOtlt*OiJE T f-!AT IVGULD BUY A~;D THEN RESELL
9 THE S!'.t1E PRODUCT TO RETAI L OUTLETS, OR WOULD
10 YOU CALL Tf'.:T ItJDIVIDUAL A JOE:GEF;, OR 1JHl,T WOULD
11 YOU CALL HIM,?
12 A WHAT !!OULD 'I CALL FS2Et7 MYER? I S TH I S WHAT YOU
13 :G?
: ,
ARE AS}
It
14 Q 1dELL, FrCD f~YER, I ASStJtiE -- +A:ELt_, HOW WOULD YOU
15 CLASSIFY FI;FD MYER? 1lHAT NAt1i: WOULD YOU CALL Hir;.
16 A AS A DIRECT t;UYING CHAIN.
17 Q ALL RIGHT. NOt>!, ARE THERE OTHERS IN DIFFERENT
18
CA.TEGOf<I ES?
19 A WELL, THERir IS INSTITUTIONS AND THERE IS THE
20 MI LITARY, THCRE ARE DIRECT BUYIhlG VEh:DORr.
21 THAT IS, CIGAR rTTE, YOU I.Nott, MACHINES.
22 Q U.i iiu.,.
23 A D-- !:'ELL, I GUESS-'--
24 Q LET'S SAf CC'?T;SfiEIf:.. HCV 1,'OULR YOU CLnSSIFY
25 ~
L' E r P:ST`E I1-1' S? I'iIAT ARE THEY? O
N
O
Q fi .~...~ q 'j a f r ~?'p ~'9 f ( .'".~
.~-. . 1a. ' t., !
N
@
@
COURT R[i'::);, it
I I A DIRECT 3UYItdG SEr,VICE JCSE:ER.
2 Q HoW '-tAr~Y JOBLErS t4CULD THERE HAVE t3EEP1--A DIRECT
3 BUYING Scf'VICE JnB: ER?
A INTHL" P4?TLAfJD ARf'A?
4
Y E S
5 1 .
6 A LET' S SEE? TtaEP.E' SOh' C, TWC?, THt'EE--FCUR, THAT
7 I CAN ?CCALL.
8 Q WHO ARE Ti':F:Y, PLEASE?
9 A THERE .!AS COLLINS £ WILr;ES. THERE'S BERNSTEIN'S.
10 THERE t;I/`,S El;PIF:E. THE RE WAS APdOTi-IER SHALL ONE
11 UP THCP~. I CAN'T THI NK OF HIS NAME.
12 Q S'.R I TH? I S THAT THE NAME?
13 A SMITH.
~ 14
15 Q
A HUC'F?T?
tvn. 1 Ft; TALKING ABOUT PHOENIX--I MEAN, IN
~
;
16 PORTLAND.
17 Q IN POf2TLAt1D ONLY?
18 A HE tirAS AN EX-REYtKoLDS DIVISION MANAGER AtvD WENT
19 INTO BUSINESS. I CAN'T RECALL HIS NAME.
20 Q I'}iERE I S HE LOCATED?
21 A RIGHT III PORTLI.f-.D. NOW, I CAid'T TELL YOU THE
22 STRFCT. SMITH WOULD BE It:---It4 VAt;COUVER WOULD.
23 i:E A SERVICE-TYPE JO'ciBG{Z.
24 Q THE SAt,E t9ANt:ER AS COLLINS & WIL~~ES AND
25 L E_ R,.s~E Ita?
~ r~
.'~..~V.iJ. o ,/~
~ r i s -
COURl RI-POkTC RS
A YES.
0. Afi`' THERE OTHERS IN VANCOUVER BESIDES SMITH?
A TH.:-:R~ lIAS, I i3ELIEVE, A DIRECT 3UYIPSG VENDOR
Tf-lEr".-r-' .
0 'rJA.> Tfi~.T, ?=~'r~,~E?
A IDOi`: t T RECALL 1:I S NAME. BUT THERE I S ANOTHER
ACCOUNT THERE.
Q ALL RIGHT. N0+.l, ARE ALL OF THE S0-CALLED DIRECT
BUYING SERVIrC JOBBERS LOCATED IN THE CITY OF
P06:TLAh.D?
A 0H, NO. THEY At;E THROUGHOUT THE 1~lHOLE STATE.
0 THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE STATE?
A YES.
f10~; f~'A;lY WOULD THERE BE TH':?OUGHOUT TI1E ENTIRE
, STATE, SAY, AROUND IPi THE PORTLAPSD AREA?
A W`LL, I VOULD SAY WE HAD ABOUT 55 DIRECT ACCOUNTS
AND I WOULD SAY MAYBE A THIRD OF THEM WERE DIRECT
BUYING SERVICE JOBBERS, OR A9AY'~E HALF OF THEM
W E i: E
.
0 OK. WHAT 1",OULD THE OTHER HALF OR TW0-THIRDS BE?
A DIRECT BUYING VrPJDORS, DIRECT BUYING CHAINS
AND MILITARY MND OTHER ItdSTITUTIOfr'AL-TYPC
ACC.0 Uh:TS.
Q HO:; HL;N-Y VFt?COitS ';OULD THERE BE, OR POSSIBLY
t1(;,' ,.IANY?
f'{~~~,~ ys^r.~.'! ~"
V' p ~ .Y h..~
49
A 0Hp MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE-->f4AYf3E.
AND--
A THIS IS TO. THE BEST OF 11Y Ktd0WLEDGE.. I COULD
BE ti:AY OFF. I t.tEAN---
Q ARc Ti; :Z,
D, PL'CT BU''I"G C~; :1"1 ACCOUNTS
WIT;-I T,1E Ei CEPTIO['1 OF r=?cD MYEl2?
A YES, i-,'tiAT IS THAT OTHEF. BIG CHAIN IN--
11:. S PIIULD ING : SAFEWAY?
THE WITP1i .riS: YtELLj SAFEWAY tdOULD BE. AND--
MR. SPAULDING : AL":ERTSC".' S?
THE WITt:ESS : ALSERTSON' S. <<ELL, T[iANKS
FOR TELLING ME.
0 (3Y 1;i',. TI L5U[tY) lCENO' S? WOULD THAT BE ANOTHER?
Or., e~IG C. Ti;EY AnE A DIRECT BUYING.
DAf,11 hEJN'O. YEAH. KcNO' SWE4?E A DIRECT.
Q PAYLESS?
A PAYLESS DRUGS .;ERE A DIPECT.
Q P AY fli,D SAVE?
A I DOt.' T KNOW I F PAY AND SAVE WERE DI RECT OR NOT.
I Dati'T RECALL ",'HETyE'n THEY WERE Oft NOT. I DON'T
i3EL I EVC SO.
Q 0{C. `,YER F F;?AtdK?
A t11.. ~..~~~. & rRf\r<!.*.<~!. W~r:r
,, DIP,ECT.
Q AR.C ANY ' OTHER I320AD CATEGOR I ES OF DI RC:CT
P.CCCl'._TS EXC[:f'T i 0{? T!fG`SE THAT YOU HAVE t1FNTIOt:E[7
T, h" r^ s^ ~" ~ ~; `
~
0
N
O
r
COURT f<ff PC{: Tf P`,
0
2
3
4
THE CHAINS AND THE VEPIDQFS AND JOEiEERS? IS THERE
ANY OTiiEf? CATEGORY?
OF COURSE, YOU MENTIONED 1:;ILITARY.
A ...A~JD ITtSTITUT IONS. YES. I!'OULD SAY THATIS IT.
5 i3ESIDCS--YF'AH--VFNDOP,S 1'.:'tD---DIrt'CT SUYIh1G VEi`;DCRS.
6 1 V:7ULD SAY THAT' S r1pOUT--T4-iAT '.JIQULD GEN'ERALLY
7 COVER IT.
8 Q ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WOULD THE PRICE AT WHICH
9 THE PRODUCT IS SOLD TO ALL OF THE DIRECT BUYING
10 ACCC~JI:TS E?E T1;C SA',,1:'?
11 A UH riUti. YES. iT tt©ULD SE.
i 12 Q DURING THE 7IF1E THAT YOU ;;ERE IN PORTLAND WERE I
13 TI1E F:t?TAIL PRICES OF CIGARETTES IDENTICAL OR
14 ALMOST SO?
15 A Of-3, I THINK THEY !;ERE ALL PRETTY "IUCH 1dITHIfs LINE
16 IT WOULD DEPEND UPON THE t1ERCHANT, OR WHAT HE
17 DECIDED TO SELL THE PRODUCT FOR. WE HAVE NO
18 CONTROL OVER THAT.
19 Q DO YOU RECALL ti!JY INSTANICE, 1-tHERE, SAY, THE
20 PRICE VARIED AS MUCH AS, SAY, TWO CENTS?
21 A I DOIN;'T RECI`~LL ANY SPECIFIC INSTANCF, BUT IT
22 P1AY :iAVL HAPPENED. I[`.^,PitT KE( ALL ANY. NO, SIR.
23 Q ALL RIGHT. ArF THE DiF17CT BUYiNG ACCnUt<TS--
24 li^L TiiEY i,SSIGIN'ED TO At-:Y P1'Lf:TIC!!LAI' AREA OF
25
C1~ L':r'1T' C`t, OR CA': THEY SELL ANYPLACE TI4`Y CHOOSE?
COURT itFP!74Z TtRS
I
2
A THEY CAN SELL ANYPLACE THEY CHOOSE.
Q .C.AN THEY BUY PRODUCTS FROM ANY SOURCE THEY t+I SH?
DO YOU HAVE ANY I NST°UCT I OfdS AT ALL AS TO WHAT
Th'1--Y Cf1!! 01, CANNOT A?OUT THE PURCHASE OF
CIGARETTES FR'?:1 OTHEP COMPANIES?
A 0li/ :'i1.
~ APiD DO YOU K,:0!; OF ANY OF THE DIRECT BUYING
ACCOI,,NTS t:Hf:~:E THEY 'IiUY PRODUCT S FR034 ANY OUTS I DE
SUPPLIERS OTHER THAN THIE '1AJOP.--SIX MAJOR
TG ~Ai.CO Co:SnAR1IES?
A DO YOU MIND REPEATING THAT?
Q DO YOU KNOW OF ANY DI {2ECT BUYI NG ACCOUNTS OF
REY',10LDS I N THE PORTLAND AREA ~1!1I CH BUY I TS
PRODUCTS FROM SOME SOURCE OTHER THAN WHAT I
CI:LL THE SIX t11AJOR TOF'ACCO COt1f'Z+;-lIES IN THE
UNITED STATES?
A VE:.l., "d0'J, iSIftOR TOBACCO COMPANIES AND DIRECT
ACCOUNTS NOR!,ALLY CARRY A FULL LINE. THEY
PF:^i;t,C~LY BUY FROM THE U(4ITED STATES TOBACCO
C('+`f'A~:Y AND STEf'HAhI0 BROTHERS. I AM SURE THEY
f`C IF THEY CAR^Y A FULL LINE.
Q /S.i..L :: IG.!T . LL fi I GLiT , tml, !'~r-' YoU Sr L4. TO
r2.IC'.i.%R;DS TGi':ACC0 CCt1+ry^,,NY, FOR i.XAI'PLE--THE
TC, CCO SH 0 F
A ;t:r.T IS TSiE Oi:lE IV'AS THIr1t.IraC OF, RIViARDS.
{ % ; r'~a ^.~. ve
C0Ui: T s: EPO^ 1! t? S
. _, .-~..., .-_._. _...p-- - -..-, -.... r-. ., . .._ .
~.........,...,._.,....,.~,..,...,_.._...-..,.~~,_,,~
YEAH. HE IS A DIRECT ACCOUNT.
Q HE IS A DIRECT E3UYIPSG ACCOUNT, TOO?
A YES.
Q .. . LIY.C Fi'.E.'.D MYER.?
A RIGHT.
Q ANf; DOFS Hr PAY THE SAME PT:I CE AS FRED MYER,
TOO, FOR HIS PRODUCT?
A OH, YES.
Q NC)IPJ ORDER TO BECOME A DI!'.ECT BUYING ACCOUNT
OF T;cr REYNOLDS CrtlPP,tlY IS THERE ANY REQUIRFMENT
AS TO VOLUME OR S I ZE OF Tf--lE Of:GAhl I zAT I Ord 1dHATSO-
EV E'R ?
A ta 0, S I R.
Q ARE THERE CERTAIN TYPES OF RETAIL STORES THAT
YOU l4^LlLD NOT SELL. Tn 'DTREC'r PUT WnULD ASK THAT
THEY BUY THROUGH ONE OF YOUR OTHER DISTRIBUTORS
OR JOnSERS?
Mn. SPAULDIP!C : YOU SAY THAT HE WOULD ASK?
MP,. TILBURY: WELL, I AM USING THIS IN THE
BROAD SENSE OF "R£YNOLDS".
A ItOULD YOU RF_PEAT THAT?
Q (f"'Y t±t?, TILt,UR Y) CLEAR AS
A Ys_A ;I . I (?t!*!. 'T__
Q OK. !tOULD EVEn, FOP. EXASIPLE, A SMALL GROCERY
STO3:E, FCR EXr,NPLE, BE ABLE TO GO TO REYNOLDS
Y ±~.f
C:OURT kEl'Ot~ 1 CRS
.,,...,.,,.,.,...~ .. <,. r... _... ..m ..,>. . ~
I AND.SAY "I WANT TO 3UY DIRECT" OR WOULD YOU ASK
2 Ti1Ei-1 TO BUY THROUGH COLLINS 6WILi1ES OR GERSTEIN
3 {'i(; SO'1L'TiiIi:G LIKE THAT?
4 A WELL, IT WOULD BE t-SY--i,iY THOUGHTS ALONG THAT LINE
5 ;'OU'LC L':f: THAT IT t;LULD -rE PRETTY CCOMOtIICALLY
6 tI.LZ . I MEAN, IF THEY 'ri,^,D A SOURCE OF
7 SUPPLY PROi1 A LOCAt. DI STP.I DUTOi;-A LOCAL SERVI CE
8 IIvrOULD FEEL SATISFIED TIHAT OUR PRODUCTS
9 l',RC AVAIL6:3LE TO TtiEti AND I WOULD CERTAINLY
10 I R~:CCiaitL';iD THAT T1-iEY BUY THEIR AEi:CHANDISE E RC~-i
11 A LOCAL SERVI CE JCC3ER. I WOULDtd' T PARTI CULARLY
12 CARE .ti'H I CH, t3f CAUSE THEY ALL HANDLE OUR PRnDUCTS.
13 IT !1C,'1LD LE EiNTIRELY UP TO THE ACCO UNT AS TO THE
14 SERVICE JOBBER THAT HE CHOSE.
15 BUT I I+OULDti' T NORiiA LLY !1 T TCtiPT
18 TO SELL A SifALL ACCOUNT DIRECT SERV ICE FROM OUR
17 Y
C
P
.
A r
o~~
18 i~F:. SPAULDII'1G: YOU WOULD NOT, YOU SAY?
19 THE WI TrlESS : I WOULD NOT.
20 MR. SPAULDING: YEAH.
21 Q (BY MR. TI LGURY) BUT I S 't'hEF.E: :,:dY r ESTP I CT I ON
22 THAT WCULD PREVENT A SHALL GROCERY GPCF'ATION
23 It.: i'('~:TLAP;D I-!AVIINC, A. SINGLE STi?i L, FO,". E:ANi'Li::,
24 F!;Ci~ ~.>U'YIf-'G DIRECT ,Ff?G;S RCYtar...LDS?...A.NY KIND
r
,
i;~' f;;-:::TRICTIC0 TtihT PEYNOLD:: PLI;Cc.S Ot! THE'.;?
'h':C 'e{~~:_ `~ °g ~,~
t ~ji l. L :+. .~i.^ ~l i.~
CoUR: E-.EP oc<Trres
1
2
3
4
5
6
~
A WELL--
Q ...Of; :!OUL D REYNOLDS ASK THAT THEY BUY FROM THE
CI ST:':I ::U T 0;: TIlLl".SELVz:S2
+,tELL, ;S.'1Y---L' I OUGHT TO EXPLAIN, OR CLARIFY THIS:
AS UIVISICt. ''AFt!'aGEF'. IT 6;OULD t3E.
f"' vECIST;"3 AS TO F:t;ETHEr 0}? NOT I'r 1lOULD BE
TG THE ADVANTAGE OF REYNOLDS T of3ACCO COMPANY
At;i.~ T4;E ACCCUr,lT '.:!-IETHER !:'E PUT TtiE."ON DIRECT.
t:01,~ IF h9EF:CHAI3DISf: WAStJ' T
t,V:,I L/',isL i IN THE A Ri A--OUIR P1Ei:CHAND;ISE 1IAStd' T
AVAILABLE Ir7 THE AREA IT 1.l?ULD fiE TO OUR MUTUAL
BENEFIT AND I WOULD RECOMMEND OR SUGGEST THAT
f-tE BUY IT DIRECT.
BUT t.QR11ALLY IT WOULD BE ECnNO-
"ICALLY INIrEASICLE TO PUT ALL ACCOUNTS OiJ DI!?ECT,
SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO f3UY A STAMPING
t~~,CF9It~E.
NP.. SPAULDING: LET'S TAKE A LITTLE RECESS.
(SHORT RECESS)
MR. SPAULDING: WOULD YOU READ BACK THE
LAST QUESTICIN ~"~'r1D .'1NS::E'R?
(THE L1',ST ABOVE QUESTION AND
AI:St!C.f' !'AS R~:Af: EACK GY THE
REt'C+RTER)
Q
1>R. i:r`.t IOi'd,
(i:,Y ;f'. ri L1 `JF:Y~ ':;OUL.t) YC,.' i::LL ;,1E:,,
v..~' "~y. ,~ ' r-~
~s° . _i`.t . .t. . .. .r~c~.1~.` ~ ~J
COUf:T i2Ef'ONTE RS
H01:' YOU VlORK'ED THE STAF.PING MACHINE, UNDER WHAT
CIRCUMSTANCES AND WHO PLACES THE STAMPS ON THE
CIG^,S'ETTES IN Tfi~.: Ct1URSE OF BUSINESS IN
THE POn,Tt.Ar:D AREA?
A HO r. r I_-- 1ME,". "J , I A~ 4 `., !` T I Id V Q L. V C 7 ~ J I T H I T.
Q
I T}!AT.
A ON, 1-,0t4 I T' S FfAr:DLED?
Q I P:M S P E A.?'. I Pi G O F R E Y NO L D S. Y E
.
,
!'ELL, I fiELIEVE THAT T~-!EY 'NORMl1LLY LEASE THESE
M
ACHINr; AND TtlrF;C ARE Tl:n TYPES: THE FITNEY-
B0'r'ES AND 14EYERCORD.
THE'P'EYERCORD yACHItdE IS A LITTLE
C`ECAL THAT T~i£`.' FFIX,. AND THE PITNEY-BOWES IS
ft 'METER--TYPE Tt3I NC, AND THEY SUY THE STAMPS FROM
T4'r STATE AND THEY AiFIX THC"9 TO THEIR CIGAf:ETTES.
I MlEAN, IT' S PRETTY'
Q Cf:. DOES REYNOLDS PUT THE STA""PS ON THEMSELVES?
A 0 :`1, Pr O .
. . . UNDEP ANY OCCAS I Ord?
A 0:j, N O.
Q SO ALL. OF YOUR 7IRECT i;UYI";G ACCCLJ,,'TS 1'OULD t>E
RESr"'ri!SIrLE i'OP AFFIXING Ttii. TAX ST,`.:'JPS At.o
PiA! :N~-; THE TQ. THE STATE?
A RIGHT. UN HUH.
r.'r:Y i;1l;t? OF R(_F 0.
;,.FY,:CLIPS ITSELF
Q I>C:..,
,. -.;~
Rr% . .`: ~I . .._ ~
caUr:'r i;F.r::
-r.: ~,n"".
i
I
;
1
2
3
4
5
OF ITS SALES OF CIGARETTES IN THE STATE OF
OREGON TO THE-STATE OF OREGGrt CR ANY OTHER
F.Grt.CY I N' THAT APEA?
A TH=PF NONE T4.^.T I KN(?': OF. TI<ERZE WAS NONE
T+-t ",T I WAS I':VOI.VE^ T t:.
Q r.LL nIC'.;T. IS IT REP()PTED D;! A P!ATIOINAL CASIS
Sn TttAT 111" tl01SLD SHOW l!Hl;.T YOUR SALES 19Ef:L IN
THE STATE OF OR;=CCN?
A I COf`:'T K":C``.! NOW' IT'S REPOt?TED TO THE GOVERNMENT.
I H^^fE''TLY C,:?r,' T KNOW I T' S Cf~,1C ,
Q ALL RIC!.-'T. DID YOU HAVE ANY CONITACTS IaITH WHAT
IS CALLCD THE ALCOHOL TAX DIVISION?
Mt?. MC EY/ER: : ... TD::ACCO TAX.
t4t?. TILBURY: THAT'S IT.
Q (E?Y i{l:. T1L!"URY) ...TO";:CCO TAX DIVISION?
A k'E LL, I r1AY HAVu . I MAY HAVE HAD CONTACTS WI TH
Tt-fEM. I CAN'T RECALL Ai-:Y.
Q ALL RICHT. YOU DOt`!'T t?FCALL S.1Btf!TTIFlG AtdY
FORMS OR REPORTS TO THE`'?
A NO, S I R .
Q .,.OR At:Y(`*4E I N YCUS2 nFF T CF?
A HUt, Utt, '!0,
I tCNOt.r OF T!-!CIn f"XI-.:T!'"~Cf".
Q It; THE P{:"TLAP,D AFi:A DUFIt"G 1967 AND fEi'LATi D
Yf"-A:?S, T!-'E PrICES THAT VE7Rr BEING C~f~,t Gt"t~ It:
Wt:nlt'G t'AC}-IIr:ES, !.!ERi' TN£Y THF Sh:+.'' OR CL.OSC TO
C . t) t,; t: 1
1
2
3
4
5
THE SAME PRICE?
A YE;~. THEY USUALLY ARr .!ITHIrd A NICKEL OF EE;C:'
I rELIFVE. TPI:Y !1ERE Af'OWT THE SAi4E.
YOU INEA*: ALL VLNDING MACHINES?
A
T .'Ei N
Gi:E I`,tJt? !a';C+'i'1!ER?
Q YC S.
A THEY 1'C.nE !'?I'('HIt< FIVE Cri1TS OF EACH OTHER.
Q DO YC%U KNOW OF ANY ItlSTA":CE IN THE PORTLAND AREA
THC Pfi:CC C=iAPGED CIGARETTES IN
THE :il.CHIPdE VARIED?
Mh. SPAULD I I'G : YOU HE/';rd DI FFERENT KI NDS OF
CIGARETTr,S?
I
NR. TIL'.:UP.Y: DIFF£I:Ct.T I;INIDS OF CIGARETTES.
YES.
Q (CONTI°:UItlG) ...I's`I THE SAMiE VENDING MACHINE?
DO YOU KNOW OF ANY I!tSTAhiCE 11FiEf'.E THEY WERE
f'i,,C+:E* AT DIFFERENT LE`JELS?
A S!'ECTFIC^,LLY, NO. BUT T!-tERc WAS A DIFFERENCE--
!`, DIFFERENTIAL IN THE r.Et'jULAf: PRICE AND THE KING
S: ZE r;.NL' S0!.':E OPEFATO-S:-it,Y tiVf: HIAD T'.10 P(:I CES.
Q ... ~ C:;USE OE' TIH/.T DIFFEPE,11CF?
.
A r Cc-'
Q ...YGU ARE SPC:1::It.G OF?
t,
[:I Ir-F::::"L7r,CE Ii.-, c o s T.
C.OU R T 1: f I':):i i i I,`~
Q DO YOU KNOW OF ANY OTHER I NSTAtvCE f1ES I DES THE
Q
5 WERE DISPLAYED IN THAT t-sACHTNF?
6 A NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
7 Q DOES--OR, CI D REYNOLDS-- LET r S GO BACK TO 1967.
Q
12 I A ABSOLUTELY NOT.
13
14
15
16
17
1$
19
20
21
22
23
24
?5
DI FFEREi1CE BETWEEN THE REGULAR AND THE K ING S I ZE
WNFRE THERE ':,:,qS A LIFF=-.nrr1CF I^< PRICE CHARGED
114 THE SAME VEt1DING MJ`,CHINIF FGP CIGARETTES WHICH
DID THEY SUGGE?ST PRICES IN ANY
WAY TO ANY OF YOUR RETAIL UIRCCT BUYING ACCOUNTS?
Af;SOLUTELY NOT.
...AS TO RETAIL PRICES?
NOW, 1!'E RE YOU AWAP.E OF THE Pp I CF THAT YfiS f3E I NG
CHARGED FOR CANICER CIGApETTES Ir: 1967?
A Y E S .
I BOUGHT Tb!0 PACKS.
WHAT WAS THE PP I CE THAT YOU PAI r: ?
A FIFTY CENTS.
Q COULD YOU TELL ME TO t'HAT EXTEINT THE f'F:0DUCT
WAS SELLING IN THAT STORE WHERE YOU SAW THEM?
MR. SPAULGIt1G : DO YOU h'EA.f. 0Vf i? A f'[:RI GD
OF TIME OR V'HILE HE IN TH: STORE,
OR MHAT?
,
MR. TILIR'1RY: WELL, EITNt'h
Q (BY MF,'. TILBURY) ...IF YOU Kt'n''.
A I C(?l1L.ntd 'T TELL TO ,dHAT rXT'-NY
nr
; !4~. Pt'Oi"JGT ':~'AS
, 1 i / I
SELLIr:G.
Q M'AS THIS ONE OF TH-E QUESTIOt,S YOU PRESENTED TO
Tt{E 'INDIVIDUAL Y!',U TPL:;ED TO, TO 'lNAT EY,TE*IT
, [ ;% L 5 ~ ;ERf: E.EI.+G rc1: G ~~_ '
1'%rLL, HE'RL AGAIN I D^vf:' T REC +i..L EXACTLY 01,10,
C(!'',V r:SA TIO!:. I":1Y H,1V^, E:;T I DON'T :ECALL
11tiE:THF=R I DID OR .'CT.
Q DO YOU REC.ALL AN'Y (:ES^MSE TtIAT THE INDIVIDUAL
Mr~Y HAVE MAUE AS TO !fl!AT THE SALES Wf:t;E: LIKE?
A Nn, SIR. I DON"T.
Q
...OF CANCER CIGARETTES?
A NO, SIIZ. I DaN 'T.
Q DO YOU KPtn!: IF At!Y PICTURES 1HAVE !',EEN TAKEN
OF T;"lE Cf:L AIRr PHARMACY OR THE GARDEN HOME
P.`:.^":MI'.CY CY YOUR C^;-?hA!;Y?
A NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
Q
DO YOU Y.N01! OF ANY INVESTIGATION THAT HAS BEEP.
r.tAnr, c;Y ANY I:EF';:'ESLENTATIVE rF t)!'YI:CLGS CR ANY
OTHER TOLACCO COVIPANlY CC`tvCEf:I,!IilC CAT:CEP. CIGARETTES
OR Pl"%C I F I C TQeACCQ COMPANY?
A P:(?, S I I: .
Q Cn' Yr'.1 I F YpUf: -CCt",P ANY, TH:: RCYP!f)Li.c Cl't~i At:Y,
l'.tS Ah.lY .":TI;rIES f)R If:`.'ES?'I';ATI!`N T('. ATT[-"PT
Tn QET.+_f.I1ITlE IF TE9L'F.E Ir ANY Pi>SSIGLE LI;-:K
I
CI('!i}'..t'TTE It:CII:T (';f'
4~ t!1 a ~
a t~ ~--t
K 4vO r1
~},i `ac..c~ b .r.a. ' ~i. ii .i:a M...r'
f
~ CANCER--THAT LEADS TO CANCER?
2 A Eil1ETHER OUR C0.1PANY HAS DONE THAT?
3 YES
SI°
Q ,
.
4 A T`if= COJ;PAPJY-- NONE THAT I KNOW pF.
5 Q 1-I.nV.`: YOU tiAD A.":Y CONTACT YOURSELF ;:'ITH ANY
6 ;tEPR.:SE;t-1W,TIVE OF THE PAYLCSS DRUG COMPANY
7 CCHCEEP.s1I~.G CANCER CIGARETTES?
8 A r; 0
.
9 Q DO YOU KNOI1 IF YOUR CO"iP,'1P:Y HAS MADE ANY CRCDIT
10 C:-:EC}: COtdCE.RN I P+G PAC I F I r TCuACCd Ct)'1Pl:t'lY OR
11 At~YTHIFJG PCI:TAINIItvG TO THE PRINCIPALS OF PACIFIC
12 TOCACCO COMPAFJY?
13 A NO, SIR. I F?ON'T.
14 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THE REYNOLDS CO!!PAr1Y OW14S ArJY
15 Of" THE STOCK IN AINY OF THE DI STr I LIITORS OFi; THE
16 DI rECT I;UY I tJG A.CCOUNTS WHO F3UY Fr.O~4 REYNOLDS I N
17
THE PORTLAND AREA?
18 A 1,40, S I r. I HAVE [I0 KNC+.,LE:DGC OF 7HAT.
19 Q NOW, DI D YOU HAVE SOitE CONTACT !1'+ tt r!R, rli' 1;t;ST
20 OF THE EIMPII.E TOI:ACCO CO.MPARY CONCUs'tJIl.t: CA}-;CE'fi
21 CIGAfcETTES?
22 A Y.:S.
23
2 Q Y^ ll V1 I L. L`! ;i V E T C' AN,S 1-1 F. F'. A U t' I Ii LY r 3 1 I r' ;~
4 A YF S. YES I HAD.
25 Q YOU TEI.F_ ii;.: 'ti1E;1'i TiiPal {zf'~'!,". !?
1 A WELL, WHEN HE GOT THEM IN STOCK--AND I DON'T
2 E;P:Qtit--I SAW THEM IN HIS--IN HI5 H4USE---HiS
3 JO`ii3l!';C HOUSE., AND I KidO'r! I TAE.:ED TO HIM Ai70UT
4 IT. SPECIFICALLY, I CON'T RECALL ANY SPECIFIC
5 Cnrl Vt ^SATION.
6 Q V'OULD THE YEAR t:E 1967?
7 A YES.
8 Q 1i.1S 1"F{ I S ONLY ON OP-.t: oCCASI nN' WHEN THE S U(;JE CT
9 AROSE OF CANCER CIGARETTES?
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
A I 1JraIS- T'rtEt;E ON MANY OCCASIONS ANID HONESTLY I
JUST DON'T KNOW HOW t?AINY TI.,XES I SPOKE TO HIM
ABOUT CANCER CIGARETTES.
i1AYE:LE TWICt.
I fsEt_IEVE IT !0AS ONCE,
0 iiAVt: YOU TALKED TO ANYBODY BESIDES 'IR.. HERBST?
MR. S°i,UL!7ING :
BUS I rdESS?
YOU t-iUA^+ j r; THAT PLACE OF
A IN THAT PLACE OF BUSINESS?
Q (BY i-I;''.. TILBURY) YE S.
... V.t-!C?E THE SUBJECT
OF CANCER CIGARETTES 1:AS DI SCU SSED.
A N0 .
Q
I Dt)id' T FtECALL ANY.
"F,°i t+'`iti'{i!iL ELSE P=:ESCF:T L'IT;! YOU OR N'ITt-i !"R.
tiE:"t:ST OR JUST GENERALLY it< oPEr.ATtrN AT
THE TItti.?
A t: C .
;'HAT. I f:.CALL IP1 Pl1RTICULl+f,.
Q k t.. L i. I c: ; i;. L t's 'i .'!1_z
~-r K^ ~; a !
c~ . _..:s . ~.. ..~~.. ._ ._~
i,F:i_tt it: V~(,7?
C0U(,'.1 ,E;,.
A YES.
4
~
Q r~::D `'AS IT AFTER MR. Gt2OUT HAD CONE TO THE
P^RTLAt:t) AREA IN ,MIARCH OF 1967?
A IDt:t:'T VELIEVE IT V,^,S. I THIINK I TALKED TO
FiI'', r^,!"nUT IT rrFO°L.
6 Q ALL RIGHT.
7 A ...AND PFiC:~A,3LY AFTER. I DOt~'T RECALL EXAC.TLY
8 ~'i-,E ;v .
9 Q tlTTH REGULARITY t)TD YOU NORMALLY VISIT
10 T'1':ACCO CCt{E'-",r<Y If. Iq67, APPr:4XI;IATELY"
11 A ',tc.:LL, IT :iAS MORE LR LESS bi! A NEEi) 'BASIS. I
12 DOIN'T THIt1K THERE 1JAS ANY SPECIFIC TI+1E 4JHCIN I
13 1-;AS Tt;E pr. I!;CUl.t:l SAY MIAYCE T:'0, i'HREE, SOE4E--
14 TI"~ES FOUf: TIMES A f-+,OtdT!-i.
15 Q 'IlHAT.:C11i.C YOU i',E GC:I NG Ti-iEf:L ON S:.7Cti V I S I T:~?
16 A CHECKING HIS STOCK--HIS STOCK LEVELS ANt7
17 RECOIMI~"ENf)II,G ADDITI0r:AL CRCE nS f=C:: OUR i(J Di S E.
19 Q 1l';~ULD YOU ALSO CHECK THE AM0UryT OF COMl+r'TITI:'t:
20 t,EP,CrNAiNDISE THAT F-iE HAD, AS FAR A5 CIG;;fitrTTE:S'
21 A Y 4 S.
2s Cf4 THE CCCt.S I C!"yS---
13 A N'fi'i AS CAREFULLY. I`'!EAN, I'''~~U!_t}
24 Q Ct:. ttiOW, DO YOU RCCA.LL sF Elrs~ c%::ct r c t rTEs
25 OVi'.r A PEt'I^D OF TI"'':C?
l C!tJ f. i
ti
A YES.
t. ...It: HIS PLACc: nF BUSINESS?
A Y t: S .
I
Q APPfiQXIMATc.LY HOW MANY 1lEfiE Ts1Er'.F?
A i-e011 CARTONS WE^E THERE?
Q YE S. .. C"z C A F 1= S OR +lt-iA TE VE'F' .
A Gti, I CAN RFMEMnER SEEING THEM THERE IN A StSALL
QUANTITY.. I DONIT P.V!FM:f3Cfi tiC?td imf t;Y EXACTLY.
WOULD IT EE, SAY, AS MUCH AS A HALF A CASE?
Trtl PTY CArTON1S? PROC,n3LY SO.
n IS THAT Trtt= USUAL NUML?Ef'. IN A CASE?
A NO. THE USUAI. MUM3ER I S 60 CARTONS TO THE CASE,
12,000 CIGARETTES.
n IS THAT STANDA,RDI2ED, MORE CR LESS...THL' r-IUrlrE+z
OF CARTONS IN A CASE?
A YES. SLOWER-SELLING SI'.A.NDS ARE PACKED IN 30 TO
A CASE.
0 OVER ttH1`.T PERIOD OF TIME DID YCU VISUALIZE THE
FACT THh?' TNFRE WERE CANCER CIGARETTES IN
EMPIRE T0t3ACC0 COMPANY?
A UP UtaT I L THE T I ME' I LCFT.
0 rsoV, t/OULD YOU TELL AI;rUT YUU.'', aI SCUSS IOw
4:'ITH hi:^.. HERC'ST? i-JHAT WAS SAID AS YOU Ri ChLL?
A t'lELL, I Kt`iO±" Thl,^-,T I PERSON-ALLY WAS DIS6USTEI?
~An~~ETTC.~ r 1t
~. I . 7tt T ti:_ t t At: tt t r. CI.
, .
,I
' 1.,~,,1E--Trfe I~IaP.._ CAt.Cwh.
1~ t«..~ , o
C. . .......
COUh T E'.Cf'')1: I 1 k
I ENJOY SMOKING CIGARETTES AND
I :.AS AFFRONTED PERSONALLY AND--
0 WHY 1`EPE Y7U AF'F?20,;TCU?
A I Et-:JOY Sl:OKING CIGARETTES AND I IMAGINE THAT
YOU '~!OI1LD !'E AFFRONTED IF SCML'rnOY SAID "ALL
ATTORtdFYS :ar:r-- Ct?CO ;S ." I tiIE-APt, I T' S SOMtTH I NG
YUU' VE SP£NT YOUR L I FE I N, At;D AS I HAVE I N
Tt:E TAf!ACCO BUSINESS, ANID I DIDN'T LIKE IT
PERSONALLY.
Q HkVE YOU t'ADF ANY PES?SON4L STUDIES OF YOUR OWN
TO i)ETER'1INE IF THERE IS A LINK BETWEEN CANCER
AND CIGAr^-ETTES?
A HARDLY.
Q 0K . WHAT WAS SAI L?
A I PROjSABLY-^I DOt.'T REIIiEMBr'F'. EYACTLY WHAT k'AS
SAID, BUT I AM SURE Tt-rAT I RE(',ISTEF2ED MY
OBJECTION AND DISCUSSED THE NAME. I DIDN'T
LIKE IT. I IMAGINE THIS WAS THE EXTENT OF IT.
Q WHAT DI D YOU SAY?
A I T' S ONLY CONJECTI.'!?',r-, [?UT I T'1OULr) BE VERY MUCH
LIKELY:
"ISP!'T THAT A IHELL OF A Nl+ME
FOt: A CI I'ARi TTE?"
!~ ISta'T THAT AROtiAgLY, WHAT YOU SAID?
A PK ^^t1, B LY.
.IT
ci~ . ~.. r r
COUR ( 1'.t:I,Cik I ; 1' `
Y.
+
t Q Wtf/',T REACTION' DID YOU GET FROM MR. HERi3ST OR
2 At."i;C,DY ELSE THAT WAS T taERE?
3 A :4LELi., I f'£C:,LL tiI`s SAYING THAT TmE ONLY REASQN
4 wt,"; i:C i;AS tiP,*,DLINC TtiE:M WAS (JECAUSE I F HE
22 A
23 Q u~ ~:;1 i:1;Ci,' 11- AI%,Y OF YOUR ;Al.t S~-;k.N ALSO WENT
24 TOCACCO £ ZOJ:'i 7 I.'!-: T(` T IM£ ?
25 A .^,i A
17 A N0. I DIDN'T. NO. I DIDN'T. I DIDN'T FEEL
10 AT THAT Tlfi£ IT '-v!AS ;: +~AJQR T;!^cAT. IT SOUNDED
19 Lli:i: A NUISAt1CE THIING TO ;'E.
20 Q OK. ;:01'1, IS IT YOUR rIELIFF _T'-:l:T YOU PRO['.AEiLY
21 T~i::':L I1LCi:E AS 1 A1 AS RYiiOLDS ~iAS COtdCERr'!ED i
16 THAT t,t+tiE?
5 DI1~;r.:'T SOH£i;ouY £_;E r~r.ULD, A?:U CERTAIIN OF HIS
61 C.i::TCl:;£PS, I r~ELIEY£, HAD ASKED FOF; THE GRAPiD,
7 SO ;l'E 'HAr:~Lr_D IT AS ja;: ACCOMr-.oDATiO,a TO THEM.
8 Q DI i) '!C SAY THE CUS i0M£RS 1-lLRE?
9 A Nc. I DIDN'T INQUIR£.
~D Q :i ;iu SAY TC 'i-"tlA.l" C:T£idT THE PRODUCT WAS GI,':IAiC.,
11 SOLD?
12 A I4%::ALLY DO!';' T RECALL.
13 Q DID YOU POItdT OUT TO t'I:'1 IN A'NY TYPE OF WAY
14 4;;iATEVE7F, THAT THI S WAS NOT IN THE BEST INTERIESTS
15 Or= T: i;ACC:(7 I:'dDUSTRY TO Si"=LL A 1-'::v^Dt)CT k'ITH
COURT R EPOR TC R',
1
2
3
4
5
6
OUR t4ERCi1ANDISE, THE TYPE THEY NORMALLY USE ON
THE TRADF.
Q WJl;LP YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YGU hlEAi~: BY A "PICKUP
J0 EP-.,
A C::, _'L.L, WE DO C:'.RRY A S';.'tLL ASSORTF+,Ei'IT OF
~1LF:CHt,i:~ I SE I i'v OUR CA.R--CAr^.RY I T IN THE T;?'JNK
OF T!!E CAR--USUALLY CARRY THREE OR FOUR CASES
OF CIGARLTTFS, ASSOr TED. AND DURING THE COURSE
OF OUR P.ORMAL 't; OI:K WE )d I LL, I F WE DO SPOT AN
OUT-OF-STOCK C0:`dD I TI Ct. I i": OF OUR MAJOR
PPC:i UCTS aE ATTEMPT TO FI LL THAT CONDITION UP
UINTI L THE NORflAL SOUr CE OF SUPPLY--NORMAL
SERVICE JOBBER MAKES HIS CALL.
SG :!ANY T IVES PEOPLE MI SORDE R.
THEY !llIGHT U2DE:R TOO LITTL;_ OR SELL TOO NIAtdY
AND-THEY N,IGIIT BE OUT OF STOCK. THIS IS ONE '
OF OUR F Ui.CT I(:INIS .
HOW DO i HF PRODUCTS REACH EMIP I rE TOBACCO COMPANY
FRCtt REYNOLDS? 'IHAT I S THE PrOC;:SS?
A THEY ARE SENT TO A BONDED t;A 'EtlCUSC FIRST AtdD--
Q WliE R C I S THAT ?
A RI(,:iIT IdJ F'O~`t'fLAilU.
~1 Ar.O DOES IT CO!-"C Fr:0A,?
A t-! I t i S T i;li-;.ALEP-3.
iS IT Si-iIPf'FD FRv;i?
. E
(, !~ ~~ r~~ '~ lw~
. ~. . .1..~
,'.! .a '4f' w: hn
C 0 U R 1 1) f: 1". ) N . T E F 5
1
2
3
4
5
A a1 INSTnN-SALEr!.
Q i?IRECT F::OJ1 t:IPSST4N-SAI.E'f, NORTH CAROLINA, IN
.-.LL I ";ST=`.t'CE S?
A SC;l~TI;~ES IT MIfiaT COME FROM ANOTHER tiJAfiEtiOUSE,
~'.i;'Y Cr t_t%NC:7 . INVt:::`r'Ti':IES. Oi3E WAREHOUSE MAY
~ G`!F?''.LOA CED. THI S I HAVE NO C('NTf'OL OVER.
I?iAVL f;f? KN0;iL::;?GE OF THEY GO IT.
';:UT i-30F:t-11`-.LLY CIGAF;CTTES ARE
..iA~~:t1FP,CTURE[? IN "Ir1STCN-ShLCM AND SHIPPED TO
T;': t;f:SY COAST '.',Y r",'1!' L G' : ON t)CC/1~ I O!; TRUCK
LI;tiES, AHi) KEPT I14 A EONDED WAR.EHC7USE.
WHEN ,4IrJSTOW-SALEM RECEIVES AN
0^')ER FOR *1EitCiaAs!DISE THEY RCLEASE THAT ORDER
; 1 THE 4>>R.C:HOUSE TO THE SERVICE JOBBER.
Q At_ L i2 I G f', T.
A ...OR TO THE J033ER.
Q "r,AS 1tOST OF THE PI:ODUCTS THAT REACHED THE-
tiIAi L-HvUSC-
DY THE WAY, I S TH I S i4AREHQUSE
T:!E RUDY t,ILIiEL;': t!/1ni HOIiSE?
A Y F~l, S I!? .
~J IS) Tfl:0' T 1iE ONLY n".:E 'i GU fiAV1L I14 THE STATE OF
A
Q
PlY. 5:;:01iL4UGf IT IS.
ff' 7+9E f''',"?);.lCTS Si. IPi - f: UIF:f:CTLY
C 0 U R T c:t P 0 fl i t t.S
~ FROM ttIiJSTQt3-SALE?l TO RUDY wI LHELM BY A COMMON
2 CARRI:P.?
3 A TO THE ~;:ST OF MY ?;N0WLC'JGt Ttl:':T I S THF 1lAY
4 I T' S flfiiYLlLl:D
.
5
Q H^:' LCr:G DO T;-ii:Y 2Li;hI;y AT RUDY
,;i LHEL i?
0 A C;.~ C;: T:.i; t~T :, ~rtlES5. I L4;3' T K;;Q:ti'.
7 T;-; I s 1S .{ i'ryAFFI C Pi:a:: LCr;. I tlwAra, I WAS NEVER
8
INVOLVED Iv'IT;-i THAT. ?dFVE^. AT ALL.
Q ALL F:I:,tiT. HCN. V:'L;Zc THEY RELEASED? H.7W ARE
10 Tiic r;,STPUCT IC:YS CIlre:;; TO RELCTO A PARTICULAR
11 l',CC'JUtNIT-TO A Sc:RVICE ACCOUNT Oft A DIRECT BUY
12 A CLcUt;T?
13 A V;ELL, 1.'Itr'STON --;tE HAVE 'WhIA.T WE CALL STANDING
14 Ci:E7Ef:S. A STANDING ORDER IS AUTOMATICALLY
I
~
f:CLEA:;i U TO THIS /,CCCUi;T, I liEAF:, IF IT' S
1s FIVE CASCS OF Ch;'.ELS, TEN i!I?dSTt?PIS AND THREE
17 Si;Lf:;1S HE WOULD GET THAT ON A PERIODIC :3ASIS
l8 f,UT, 0:;AT ICl;LL.Y. IF Hf: I:E'QiJIR::D ??ORE ?ASFRCI1AtdbISE
19 THAN b! iljt,T HE- ti:aL1LU GET ON A NORIMr1L STAND IPaG
20 ORCiE;: RELEASE HE WOULD SEND HIS ORDER TO WINSTON-
21 SAL::M; Ci:-Sfi,L's:;:, IN TURN, ';-JULD EITHC2 AIR
22 t: A ., L0,;. t;? !ri ~' TiiE C~.DER TC RltD 1` i 11. tiCL+'9, :lti0
23 'rif.):iLD, I!v T111:i-il, PE.:L-EASa"-. 1NL- iii:f:C~lr',NDISC TO THE
24 t;C C:' L;lT ,
25 ,~I_L T.I,:. TCi'ACC:'+ CU?."^.'..;tS USE THE
COURT RfPOIi 1 E I:S
1
2
3
4
5
F;t!Cl, Y '.-'IL;3Li.VA F?:' aOtl c E I1'i T};U SAINIE F'ASt1ION iid
Ar:~ T~~LI;' c}IIf'~ ~^fT ~
A I D.),!i rSI
T
>F'AtsLt`It:G: IF YOU
A ~T K",'10`..; ALL OF TtiL'f.{
~ ' 0;: '4(?T,
1`
(rY r'". TTLf,'!F:Y) YOU t?O Ki:C': THAT AT LEAST
SC. ":r OF TE'I;t1 SESIr,F'S nEYtsO1.DS DO?
YCS.
R
Q DO YOU f'.N-C!.-' IF THAT IS THE t"-,i:Tl-iCf; USED BY ALL
OF TtiC ~;!',JOt; TOBACCO COMP/',N1IES?
A THAT I S MOST G E*!E RALLY TFiE METHOD OF OfiEi2AT I nN,
Q AMO IS T`iE C?[`rR }'1A!:DLEt) BY RUDY W IL;tELM
TC !a OI^:'CT A.CCUti': T :
A I~EL.TEV1~ Tt-~~'lT r i1D Y W i' LrlCLi, JiA l') }iIS i:11N i'R UCK S
FOR LOCAL DELIVERY. IF THEY ;1tNT SOUTH TO
S"I_E:il, 0!'. IT BE TO THE DI ;c:CT
l,CC'()t;P,T TEi,-.T SE~VI GE::. Tt?.aT f`,:EA.
Q AND If". FRr_D MYER t.'!`:tiTED A Prt^TICULI-lr NU:13c?f: OF
CASES OF= CICARETTf:S ;-,'HIAT l-Jt)UI_D THEY NOR'~ALLY DO?
i'fOt}Lt) THFY CA,1_L ^iS~)Y I:ILH~~-.Li-~ Ali;J ASK THAT A
.
rLIii?'?Y F'f:' ;!:;~!c?
A () f-i , h? C` .
Q iiC+'..' !'^l1LV Y`rFY CO IT?
TH_"Y '~C,ULG St,fl~'TT i'!-I~ CFU'. ' ItJ l,'rtITI1~4 t?^ ;?1'
.,.~ ,
e . t .. :'. e . R . . . . ~ a . . , ~ . ;
COUR I' ft!: PC) ft i 1 !" ;
70
Y
r
t
4
5
PHONE TO WIt.STON -Sf1LE!d AND THE CIGAf:ETTES WOULD
BE P.cLEASED bY WIPdSTON-SALEXI 6Y ltIFtE OR BY AIR
N1 A I L.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOUR SALE;;t:EN, V!tiEN THEY
`:`,`""L THE r~IwT+;ICT, DO T}~~cv f",LS~~ PICK UP ORDERS
I ; . .-, . ~
FfiC,ti TINE TO TIfti: FRQM A DIRECT ACCOUNT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AraD c1t-iAT i:CULO THEY PDe?
A THEY IvIC}ULD WFITE TI-EE OSDER Q:1j A FORM THAT :dE--
Ti+":T N'E PIRtIVIDE AND SUBMIT IT TO t;IPdSTO-N-SALEtd
FG!: F:ELEASE.
HAS T,iIS ~E~Er~ THE 1;'AY IT'S E~EErI !il~~:DLrO
FOR r,Ar,Y Y ;AF;s?
A Y E S, S I t2 .
Q ... AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?
A YES.
DID YOU l4AVF: ANY CONVERSATION !iITM '4f2. HERBST
AT t-;HICH THE SUBJECT OF CA~+CER CIGA.°,ETTES ~';AS
DIaCUSSED, I3ESIDES THE ONE YOU HAVE ~:ELATEi; TO
US?
A T~':I,T IS T;~C {?N~LY ONE I RrCALL.
Q LID YOU iiAV~: A;:Y DISCUSSIOIN 'i':ITFi LARRY h100kE,
~!i'l/, I U4(..IEVt., :'f01~h J i ClR CAaDTRC?
A I DO i' eELICVE S0
.
Q ... OR hNYLr'[JY ELSC AT FIMPI ~E?
T~
c ....a.
.:, ~ . > L. .~. a..~
~
0
~
0
w
ma
N
COURT {: EE'.1~' TI !%S
71
I
2
3
4
5
6
A I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
Q GID ~'n.U '1AVi'-. A";Y DISCUSSIONS WITH t?n. H. S.
S~tIT'r' ,T ANY TI-,; tfiEl:C THE St1EJi:CT OF C.1;iCER
CIrAF::TTE:S +.fAS DISCUSSED?
A YES. YES.
A :-!ELL, f-;E CALLED Mr--At,lD I DON'T KNOW THE DATE--
I GOrl' T I:ECALL THE DATE--BUT HIE CALLED t-9E ON
THE T CLi:PHONC AND F1E SAID SCMr T1-lIIZG TO THE
E FFEC T THAT HE HAD JUST BEEN VI S I TED BY AN
AGENT OF TFiE FEhERAL GUl2CAU OF INVESTIGAT10tJ
~,:Ct1l.U TELL "iE !.'HIEPr 1?fyb ,!J-EERE?
COi.'CE^1':IrG CANCER CIGARETTES.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THE AGENT
ASI;EI? HiM IF AiNMLODY HAD TRTED TO DETER HIM
F:2.Ot, CARF;YIh1G THE t3RAt-!D AND HIS AiJ;%rER VAS
t1t.aSl?LUT`LY NOT." AND LATER--
Q YGU ARE RELATING 1iHAT HE TOLD YOU? IS THAT
RIGHT?
A G..t'!r:r.ALLY THIS IS WHAT.
LATER :I 1s'L`T Ord TO VISIT WITH
I:EPJT DVFF; THEPE At:n TAL!:ED TO fiira Ar:D
HE i:iNID OF LAUGME-D A's3nUT THE 4:11-1nLE MATTER. HE
Sla I J "I WnULDFS' T TOUCi-! T1I-7:4 WI TH A TEt!-f'OOT
POLE"--0R SGtSETi-lIil(i To THAT Ei FECT. HE s'iA .`'5 P1'T
VERY Alii~tEE1;i3Lr TO HANGLIPi.~'-, THE ur.At,D.
'tf' ."'e~ " j~~~~ w. ~
Rr c 1 ~u . ,~ ~i. i ~: .`` : ~~.~ .~ ~
COURT (2EPORTE RS
t
1
Z
3
4
5
6
Q
UHAT DID YCU SAY?
A I f;E:Sf'cC iED HI S JU'JG!SENT.
YvU l,idY Ct'!f"IENTS THAT YOU AGREED WITH
Tt-i:,T STf.T r.-t;E;;T, OFi WORDS TO THAT EFFECT?
A i:^.
0 Y;,J t GIi,T CUT TO 1'Iii THAT IF .:Z SOLD CANCER
IT i+Irf-lT fiLCU4E THE hUt1:3E^ OF SP,L: a OF CIGAS;ETTES
I N Tt1Z AP.EA GEINIE: A LLY?
A I\
i+ i%C, ; { t:, rv.>, SIP..
YC US:iY :,NYTI'I'"C f;T ALL, 3,iC"t,, THAT YOU CAh:
A :-:OTHIt`G T=:r T I CAN RECALL.
Q +'f:S A~~Y~C4~Y ELSE f'^£SENT?
A i:; , SIR,
Q ... r^,7 F I T;iEf; OF T}iE.5-- C()"":Vz.::;SAT IONS?
A V:r:IT A t-IIf:UTE. I 6ELIEVc 14ALT CU:.'KIf! WAS t'ITli
~L rH EN I'-,EfiT OVER Ti-,Iwl:F.
Q Ti~:= DIST!':ICT MANAGER FCR SEATTLE?
A T,-L SAL£S V,ANAGLR.
0 ...RLG F Ci;AL? EXCl1S;: ME.
lt r: Y(' 1", E t; t. S E?
1
A
,
A ;. 0, SIf<.
'i (;tf .:`:}:C EA f;i:i'{°~^T 7C3 ~';flY4:f:`'. Cl;=. Y(~Ut~.
e; . --.~!~
COUt;7 F:; YC ' I L I: S
~ COt.VEF:SATIONS WITH MR. SMITH ON EITHER OCCASION?
A 1) F LL, WHEh; HE! CAt.L£D ME I CALLED DON GROUT I N
~
i
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e
...c~....`v' ... .s .ii...
COUI2 r RLPON 1 f: R5
3 t:i ~~51 r";i,C TOLD ,11i: JUST tJt':+T I TOLD YOU---
4
TC Ti.;:T EFFECT. AND MIR. Gf.OUT THANKED 11E FOR
5 I T, A:':C THAT 14AS rH-17 Ct:v Ct= I T. .
6 Q tS,''.i? I C"t':, UGt: I tqG T'HAT TI i zC D I D YOU ALSO CALL
7 S11:ITHS--ti. F. S:tIi"'.i & SOtd, I BELIEVE IT'S
8 C:yi+LE_- D ~ 1:I lii Ai'aJ.Ui THE SAiSE FRCQUir.hCY THAT YOU
9 Li:D ON T 1-iE ~.'~1PI :i T~:;;~~,CCO COt~AANY?
.0 A A LIT':1.4 Lc:SS~ Fc Li~;iL=I~CY. IT ', 1', LITTLE FURTHER
11 LESS CC1:ViwNIErsT.
12 Q ALL :I GHT. I S I T ALSO A S"iALLCR ACCOUt:T?
13 A .!AS AN IMPOitTI-,N T ACCCUNT---1-i. F. SMITH.
.)4 Q ~:',;-, Sili :r HE WAS Ah; I I1E'DIRI.TAtvT /;CCOUNT, P.UT 1;'AS
DOLLAR VO'i..Uti_~` LESS T;il',''' i'i :~.1'S !lITH E't°IRC.?
j~ A T t-;c DOLLAR VOLUMIE !~1: C/`,RTOt.lS? I!`.ct SU?E,
17 :;LC.,USi: tiC WAS 114 THE STATi: OF ::ASHItdGT(,iS W3:rPE
18 Tt1i:Y H~-`:D AN 11 CcNT STATE TAX ON T;iC: CIGARETTES
19 f .+;C) THEY DIDN'T SELL AS :;1.'iY ON Ti;i: !tASHI!'lGTnN
EEJ ; : L! i
_,
21 Q ..:li) "AS Y4)Ut: ,'??,S;-1I i:GTCMI DI S'TR I BUT()P FOR
i u4 ;±:~Y?
4062
23 ~~ :...:sS;_.;'z.
24 IL TH E OT'+1:: i-1. S ?
25 A i.Li';S S' i.'IL".LS AND T;!~': j C~_' LIF':r 'EMi'I".C.
N
~
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I
2
3
4
v
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8
9
I T ~IAS EETWE:i:N THOSE THREE.
Q
Y.CULu C,EI;NSTEIr; biJY AS MUCH AS, SAY, FREI) I4YEFt,
0±: iiURL? i-itllr ;~OULD THEY COi'iF'EiiiE.?
A I 11GiSLD ASSWiE THAT uL:;~iSTI:IP: :1UULD BUY ?4URE
I' i f rr:i'~ Flki. :J MT E f_. .
DID Yt?0 !-tAVi: i:IaCi1SSI0,NL- 11ITt-1 i;R. SYLVAP:
C.;:'tPf", IGEL:~V~ IT IS, OF LLRNSTEIN? I THINK
Ti-oi-tiT I S C-A.-A-P-F.
A A~Ou'~ CArlCl:i: CIGARETTES? AGCUT CANCER CIGARETTES
Q
... j;aUU7 C;;*,JCci; C I G,.~:E_TTE5 . 1'c=5, °i I I2.
A T'riEr IS NONE THAT I RECALL SPECIFICALLY.
Q
vC~ YOU THIid~ YOU DID DISCUSS IT ;tITH HIM?
A I. i; Y !-f A1 E. I:i A Y }-d t: VE-.
Q YOU f:: CiiLL N'J'1'HIN'G /'t:;:?UT ANY OF THE COidt't:RSATION'a
A ' . ! v Ll .. ., c 1- vs~ -, t.+ t~.' IF "~ ~~ 1`,'a~ C A R Q YIr.! ;; T}4FM~
H f S'iii / lilIV:. l1.i1% hV ~~~~~ ~ ~-~ ~
CUT T+; ;?' S At30UT ALL.
Q DO YOU REC::LL ANYT~iIP+G ThAT t,c: HAD STATED TO
YCU A::OL`T CA~.Cr-R CIGARETTES?
A r:(D , SI^.
Q
.. Cr'. AiiYT}i I',;G Yc)11 Si.I D TO NI NI?
A
Q IF YOU UIi3, I GUESS YO;; ARE NOT SUC'.E YOU DID?
A r;O, S I R.
Q rIL` YOU Tl;!_;; T') i`.i'Yi:,O:iY ELSE AT oc:Rr.arEIr.' 5?
~
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AT. S£RMSTEIri BRaTHGI;S?
A NO, S I P. NOT THAT I CAN RECALL.
Q DO YOU !'SCr".LL--. !:r:L L, FIRST, ARE YOU AC-QUAIINTrU
;~ITI1 ~.r:1i t;FR CCLLI;.S OF CCLLIt-lS FWILMES?
A Y:"S.
Q : 5 T.1'I a!`.N r",CCf)Ut:T T3-'iAT YOU ;,!f)ULC CALL Oh:
A M0, S I R. I t` 0 tI' T.
YOU RECALl. SEEIt;C, CI°.NCEr CIGARETTES IN HIS
PLl'.CC OF f3USItlESS?
'.-!ITti A(iCUT THE SAitE FRr_')Ui-.tiCY P.S E!4PIf:E TOBACCO
CCNPA^tY?
A RI(~ '-,T.
Q IS HE THE 0;-'!,;EF: OF COLLIN'S E::'ILMES, OR ONE OF
TH1:;.`?
A HIS It .IA`i E IS C!'d TH E ,c,IG:':. I JUST ASStJ';E THAT tiE
IS. I COtd'T KNOW THE CCF.P^n!`,TE TITL:'.
Q DI'_; YOU HAVE ANY CISCvSSIC": '-'ITtt HIM OR--
A NOT THAT I RECALL.
;~ ... C'R 11I TH F:^,YOP.E THAT FOR COLLI N'S,
C0,1"C'IFRt.ING Vl;f,CER CIG!', :~i': ~5?
I TMIII~'t: THAT THIS t.I~:G OF QUcSTIC`NING
-`' ,'c' Y.^.U, i C~U::S`' ~ f:UT I
, r f' :~ ~~ Y I..P0,:T/~~,T ~
CC*:SI 1)FF: CA,:CLi: TO aE A :;IG I TE?ll. I
F;:.'.LLY CIC;.,' T.
( 1. diFR;,UPTI01'.)
.... ..~ '
4.~' .....' I .. . ...v .... ..r A:..
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77
I
2
3
MR. TILBURY: HAVE YOU FINISHED YOUR
ANSttEI:? READ IT CACK.
(THE LAST AuOVE ANSWER WAS
READ BACK uY THE REPORTER)
A (CCi;TINU ING) Ai:D I Aii ?~pT TRYIN::~ TO AVOID YOUR
QUESTIOINS, BUT I DIDN'T THINK THAT IT WOULD I3E,
YOU KP~GI;, SOMETHING THAT I WOULD ,:E SPENDING
AN' A,?FUL LOT OF TIE4E INQUIRING ABOUT.
Q (DY ;1R. TILBURY) ALL RIGHT. h(7i-:, JUST SO I
HIAVI: I T CLEAf'--AND I Tti I r.K I T I S C LEAR-DO YOU
RECALL ANY DISCUSSIONS OR EVEN WHEN YOU PERHAPS
C+I DN' T PERSONALLY PART Y C I PATr, COtdVE ftSAT I OtvS
THAT YOU HEARD RELATING TO THE SUBJECT OF
Ce`,iJCI:R CIGARETTES, I`dOT INCl.UtaIi'iG, OF CCaI;SE,
THE DISCUSSIptsS THAT YOU HAVE hAD WITH YOUR
ATTCf:t:EY?
A I CAN'T RECALL ANY OTHER DISCU~'~SIOr.S.
Q DIti YOU, DURING 1967, COP~r"_ BACi: TO TtlL HOME
OFFICE I1. WIidSTOiv-SA,L.EN, FOR ANY REASON?
A YEAH . I'.JENT BACK THERE AS A t4L:: D I:' I r I ON
~~t.t !i I i~Ii>
!11 .!'~AGt:R, AND I DON'T t2ECi-~L L~LL EXACTLY
GO f,hC+. I 3ELI EVE I T VAS ARoU;=4D TicAT T I:':[ .
Q DTD THEY GIVE YOU. ANY i:IrdD OC : t'.1t i,i 11T
riZOC+hA.iiS TO t3ECOiN1E DIVISION A i1C?. I TH INK LT'a Af'Tt:.P fttt
~
0
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PROVEN YOURSELF RATHER SUCCESSFUL, THEY BRING
YOU :3r1CY.,
T;iL'Y HAVE SiNCs= THEN.
IT USED TO E;E AN ANNUhL tiCCURRENCE,
3[1T Ttlc`_i-! THEY l.;,?Vi: DI.SCC:NTINUEP IT.
Fi^v;-i L::NG ;-;OULD YOU HAVE SPE,~lT IN WINSTpN-SALE14
U^:i)::R T tiOSE, CI RCl1MSTia:;CES?
A AL,ni1T THREE DAYS.
ANO DUR'IiIG 'i'ti:%T VISIT DID THE SUu.IECT OF CANCER
C: c~`,;:::1'TE:S CC%h1E UP?
A. t,lr:,
HAVE YOU DISCUSSED IT WITH ANYONE AT THE HOME
OFFICE?
A S I F: .
Q ... AT At1Y T I ttE?
A NO, SIR.
Q ...Ar:Y OTHER REPRESENTATIVE, N'ot.l?
i '1ft. SPAULDIPIG: DO YOU ii`~~ .: UTtiEP THAN
WHAT HE HAS TOLD YOU AuOUT CALLING
t:f'.. GF:OUT?
If(.. TI LI.>U"Y : 12IG!iT. OT1-il=R TtiAN TI-IAT.
A iti 0,
T2Lr>,t:Y) D!J YOU 0401! IF AINY;.'t:k: Gl.S4°
A PACK 'nF CANCER CIGI',F:F:TTfS, PE 1'RF:St'r,TING
RE'i~"'DLEi`i iir Ti";i: P?D't:'fLAtvD A1;i:A?
COIJF:
a
I A I:'ISSEn THE FIRST PART.
2 Q DO YOU 'K;.C'~! OF A*yY f?EpRFSENTATIVES IN THE PCRTLANJI
3 A^4A T-iAT '?t"t,!.NT CIC-ARFTTE:S--A,PtY REPPESENTATIVES
4 OF ??EYtvC,L.fIS THAT fzOUGt'T A. PACK OF C;tiCER itJ THE
5 I+%EA? YCt) MtS'.TI'=,NED THAT YOU BOUGHT
6 A CO,1PLE OF Pl!C!-;S?
7 A NC. I CAf: 1 T i'::CAL1. A":YOtvr ELSE BUYI P:G T!-!EM,
8 EXC%--PT CC`h ODDITY.
9 ~ A'r:f: YCU ACQUAI NTCD t:1I T!i T~-{£ CANiCEfi. AhVERT I S I t!G
10 CO^r, r+" r.RC: YOU i".';Q.tAIt?T;T7D !'TTH IT?
11 A NO, SIR. I HAVE "!f; CONNECTICtJ Y'IT}I IT.
12 Q OF AaR ^.tdGc."ENT OR CONTRACT OR ;l1HATE'VCR
13 UIi? ry.E'YPdnE.pS HAVE ~'ITti ITS CISTRIBUfi^RS OR
14 GT!::CT ACCOUNTS I*+ THE f'C+^TLAtfD AP.CIi IN 1067?
15 `.tAG THERE A ri' l TTi=?i irWNITRACT
16 tirITt-1 ALL nF TNEM, OR NOINE, OR WHAT?
17 A T''"-,E1:4AS t:0 CONTRACT. If= YOU r'AIi? YOU: t.ILLs
18 ~:f: ';'OULD CCP-:TINUL= TO SHIP T".LI! LLIE;Vf; THAT
19 Vr^,S ABOUT IT.
20 Q f.t_L f;I ~I1T . At.D "uI D At,!Y C?3' TI+'`'ti 'tAV! ANY
21 i:EYP.OLOS T ~{AT r;ii=Y `.'UL;
22 F' ~ ~`,;
r-CP riFtiY f'f:7I CLJt
~
23 ~l!,r-C T /:CCtla':TIS
24 r-. T/; n Y Y I~.~ E?
.~:.,<.
q
L5 A 1~. .~;,ry 1:?C;~1tT PAY TFit:If' - '
,
I
CGidT.IP:UE St,iIPPItdG THEN.
C" . I I;SSU,~L THAT WOULD GE TRUE OF ALMOST
A;;YGNL?
Q L~:~O`JI +J:: OUT THAT FAC T OR, WAS REYNOLDS AT LI OERTY
i'0 CAt-IC::L A DIRECT ACCGUi:T AT ANY TIME IT 'eIISHED?
A t:sa, S IR. rdU, S I 1:.
Q ALL P.TGHT. AN~:` t}t'11DER--:If1AT 1dERC THE RE.''+T.r.'ICTI(1NS~,
A; t`Ait .: s: LYrdOLDS I:AS C{J",1CE.^.iyCD?
A OF BI LLa . 7'±SAT t S I T--i'i.RIOD.
Q~ic;r, ~~nrL::~ I UIDh,'T ASK THE nUPSTInN VERY WELL.
COULD REYNOLDS HAVE S T OPPED
Si-tIf'PIN~G--
t
f
A R ±i;+iT. E;IGHT.
t1;. SPAI:LGIt+G: IF YOU }:r.01~!,
(;:Y :11R. T IL6UitY) ... r, DIF:I-EC'i' ACCOUNT FOR ANY
REASON' I T ;4'ANTED TO?
Q
A Fi~~T TO t1Y i:;,1C:':LEDGE.
Q i?J YOU i:NLW OF At4Y icc.STF::Cl'IOi;~ Tt-if:~a, THAT
;,CULG HAVE PRE\%.Cr.;TED ~EY:.t:LU5 f~Rt~~ CANCELING
A DISTR1i:i1TvR?
A IF IT Ct:~D tJS SCt':C t~ t'{?P;t.:Y THACl-- I:O. +d0.
3 Cr.;:IT T:iI~dK OF Ai,:Y f;"L-:A>Cit :iiY I1i i0l1Li) rit)T'
n!".F OUR DIRECT ACCpUi'T,.; OTHE-ry T}4l+it
OF DI LLS. ll-:AYGE: I At1 DGrISE.
C,77T TFtt' Li ._ i:= Ycli;rl' QUL:iT I0,NIP3:: ?~r
... ~-...~
... . ...~ Vr~ e.. .G.. ».. i:,.j
1' t : ~ ". _ f f
I
I
!
I
.2
3
MP,, HILLIARD: Ylt:LL, I THINK HIS QUESTION
I S MORE PROPERLY DI RE:CTEt) TO S(?Mct30bY
ELSE. HE O"VIQUSLY ISN'T AL;ARF' OF
ANY TYPE OF AGI;EEMErIT, I F THAT I S
~;F;:~7 Y 0 U TI;I+,~ TH[:t~E: t~IGriT ei.
Q (P Y 11t. TIt.SURY~ DO YOU i:ivOW OF ANY? YEAti,
PER1;APS I SlzOULD ASr, IT THAT WAY.
DO YOU !::`10W OF AP~Y PROtdISE OR
CC~-1t:IT;s[:NIT t';F,DE BY R-.Yfyt7t.DS THAT ANY PARTICULAR
U: :ECT ACCi1i1;'dT :10ULt) iiw RETAINED FOR X i4Uhi$ER
OF YEARS?
A Uh, r;0, SIP.
Q
,.. OR TWO YEARS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
A ;. 0, S I r,
C~ SC IF THE Pf:tSii7'Et;T OF REYNOLDS DECIDED THAT
TtiE:Y DIDN'T trr;P.T TO SHIP BERNSTEIN THEY COULD
DO IT TOti0RR01V.' IF THEY 11Atv'TrD TO?
t:R SPAULD I NG : WELL, I F YOU KNOW. I D0N' T
THIttK THIS V,{ITt:ESS HAS A TNIFdG TO DO
WI T rt M ti A T.
A i:c), S:~. I HAVE NO Kt.'UVLEDGE.
~ i
Q
LLY ~?
( A F:. T: Li:Jr:''; YGi.~ t)r;;y T t~ , P~ 0
, .,
A 0
Q i.LL (4-.T . ;lwF;E YOU A11ARL THAT Gt:OU T
IN tzP'
i t) il::~l
, A YES.
2 Q ... E.E.FCRE HE AF,RIVLD?
3 A Y%::, SIR.
4 -+ Q D~E:S HE NLlf2;;ALLY SEND YOU AIN' ITINERARY AS TO
~~ :li:_~,Nl HC ;-'I LL t;E I': THIE AREA htlD :1H?1T HE WI LL DO?
+
~ 6 A U:: !!UH. YCS, S IR.
i
7 Q DO YOU IRF.CALL t-lHAT :,:AS SAID IN THIS PARTICULAR
8 INSTl1+lCE AS TO T'iE F'CASOrd FOS: kiI S C03~IPdG TO
9 THE PORTLAND AREA?
10 A ti;i LL, ?d()!cA',ALLY THE REGIOINIAL tiANAGEI'. WOULD BE
.
11 INFUl:i;ED, 1*11Ct, WOULD DE AT TIiAT TIME MR.
12 i Uf`:i~ l~:. AND T}!=?4 H4 WOULD CALL ME AND SAY
13 "Sti., AND SO IS C.^.tSING INTO YOUR DIVISIOr7 AND
14 T;'IS 15 1:HAT 1:.iE ;:A,,.+T:l TO DO: HE ±1ANTS TO .lORK
15 I-i I T6f TH I S S1"-,LtTHAT SALESMAN AND YOURSELF."'
16 Q ;:~,%~ST REJ~,SON t-;AS GIVEN IrI THIS It~5TAr;CE, IF ANY?
17 A r:c:r;E. THERE WAS ra0 REASON GIVEN. OURS I4AS NOT
18 TO QUESTION' ;'!NY.
19 BUT i!E t-dFRE Pn4TTY HAPPY TO SEE
20 Hi;t C0.1c: THROUGH CECAUSE IT'S' AL!lAYS A FORE~-
21 C;'Arc.'o, OF GOOD tdc:-:S WHEN A Z.^,''E MANAGER COMES
22
ni; AREA, f'ECAUS : THEY ,-.nr PRETTY I t4POx2Ti:r:T
23 P=~;~'LE AND ;tyE~~ THEY COOE ALL THE tdAY OUT TO
2 41 THE '-{EST C0,`,S T,ST TO EVALUATE YOUR WORY. THEY ARE
25 C:. i':G THE <i' FOR A i'1^cTTY t~~^O') RC!`,'.>r)=:.
('.QU {2 I t: 1 1"
I I I LATER FOUND OUT THE REASON WHY.
,
s
;
.
t
4
SU£ISEQUrtdTLY I WAS PliOt10TED AND FRANK KESETI
W A5 P!?Ct10TrD.
WAS THAT THE ONLY Rcf",SG'v ItE CA,; ~E, AS FAR AS YOU
5 Yt" Ot,;?
6 A ASFARM 11 S I K Iv a'.J , Y E S.
7 Q NOW, ARE THERE APlY WPI TTEr, CONTRACTS, THAT YOU
a ARE A!IAf:E 0i=, SETt!* EN F?EYNOL(7S AND VENDING
9 MACHINE Cn.'Pr';hlIES IN' T'rlE f'O1:TL/1ND AREA?
10 A A T T ri A T T I IME, hl 0.
11 Q WHO ARE THE FOUR OR FIVE VENDORS THAT YOU
12 MEraTICNED?
13 MR. SPAULDING: YOU MEAN 'VERE AT THAT TIME?
14 !1R. TIC.O UPY: YEAH. IN 1907.
15 A THERE tI!!.S A CAtI T tE`l JUTFIT T:iEI;E--CAPdTEEN
16 COf'.PORATICtd OF At-'ERICA, I CsELIEVE IT IS. I DON'T
» RECALL THE I R CORPORATE NAF1F. I WOULD HAVE TO
jsCi-iECY, THE R.EC()RDS TO TELL YOU WHO THEY ARf:.
HE TOP OF MY
19 1 CAN'T RECALL Tt-iE~1 RICliT OFF TL
20 HEAD.
21 Q (r:Y NR. TILrl1FtY) CANTEEN COi?POf:ATIO`J IS THE
22 Lhr:CEST G;:r?
23 A YES.
24
I fs::Llf-VE HE IS.
Q AF:F YCU AC()U/',1 t;TrD b:1 TH THE GEORGOPULO & COMPANY,
Ch AtlY 0,` iTS C, l=r I C!E :S !...: r',"SPLQYrI:.S? ...
~1 +
rr' ti {;v
t ..;a
~! .4 ~.L, r-
c4#
C0L)F. T {2E PC)1' 1 f, I'>
GE.ORGOPULO?
A NO, SIa.
Q YOU ANSWERED "P;0`t?
A PlO.
Q HAVE YOU SEEtd 1411 THrIR PLACE OF L?USIP'CSS IN
P! F' i Y G R K C I T Y?
A P; 0, S I P. .
Q DO YOU Kt!OI! OF ANY INSTANCE WtiERE THERE WERE
SALES l1ADE ('^ PURC~-~:;SES IMADE Ft',0M ANY OTHER
tl...JO^ TOC;I?CC(~ CO;.S'!:'!Y BY THE T'EYNOLD" COMPANY
IN 1967?
A WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN?
Q I blAS JUST ASKING YOU OF nINY INSTANCE WHERE
Y(:UR COt1PATNY BOUGHT C,IGARETTES f'ROti OTHER
Ct.tIP",N7ES OR THEY E;OttGHT :=RC'1 YLU?
A NC T T 0 MY D: 'N0V! L E D G E,
hiR. SPAULDING: WHAT 4tAS YOUfZ At.SWEP,?
T:ic 11I T1fESS : NO.
Q (BY MR. TILT3Uf;Y) WERE THERE ANY INSTRUCTIONS
GT !;~i! TO AINY OF YOUR SALES FC!!,CE AS TO 1tHAT TO
DO IN CASE THEY CtiCOUN'T:"RIED CP',INC.Ei: CIGARETTES?
A S I r
.
Q ...1~: TI;E P'1rTL11N;`i A ^,17 r^:?
A NO, S I r''. ,
^-,L ," "Y ITl,riC T Ir,.' A S Tr' .,Y
c 0 U {: ~r f' ! iL ~l .i:
86
I
2
3
5
MR. SPAULCIt;G: No. THAT MIGHT HAVE CALLED
0I< T!i,;T F;? i:.'1.
M^. TILGUR.Y: Y: ALt, MIGt'T HAVE.
TILLyt)^Y CCt:Ti~:t;TNG~ . ..t~:;. COoPER,
MFc, uASS, AND F1R. Y'FiiTE.
YOU !~OULD OR SHOULD DO WITH REGARD TO THE
6E LA I F.E: P;1 ,=. ;14ACY?
A ITOLU 'r;Y PEOPLE TO STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM
T1'"(.E .
Q A L - {J F Y C U ;\L t:- S' ?... R I G H T.'
A ,rLt , fiE:GPLE- :;HJ I;ErL IraVDLVt:.D AT THAT TIME IN
CALLING C?; T;II1T ARf:A.
Q BLF'?i:E I GA`li: YOU TlIE '..Jt;:tES OF THREE PEOPLE
4dt:(` I THIi"Ii:, ACCQt:DIt4G TO T!-tI? !ll:SWEttS TO
I?~T::.;;?0GAT0 ~3ES, DI D CALL 0}: THAT AREA.
ARE THOSE THE T:iREE THAT MIGHT
HAVE C ALLED ON THE BEL AIRE PHARMACY?
A YES.
Q 1tGUwf) T;-iERE EF' ANY C° T HE :S?
A Ffir:t-:i; AND HYSELF, PERHAPS. 1,L"--
Q ', t C, : ;: Y G U-- -
A WE C:'-.LLL`a ON ALL CALLS.
Q L':: YCtI hS:IGN YOUR SALr"_S1°'Eti TO PARTICULAR
P! ;TS OF THE CITY?
A : ~= ~;
,..
; .
,.,. . _,..
~.~: ..,....,~ F
.,.. ~
f,' ~"".q, !1 TR T
f.~t
.cd i...~
C. 0 11 R r I: E F' 0 !< -f !;:
1 Q ARE YOU AVA^E OF ANY TCDACC4 COP1PAPd I ES 4dHI CH
2 1r1l,~lUFACTURC PRIVATE LABEL CI:,ARETTES?
3 A ":C. I AM ,':')T Ak'ARI:. I Kt.O.'" THEY AE`F vEIFtG
4 NAI:UFACTUR:L'.
5 Q ANY ItiFORMI1TI.MN! AT ALL AS TC? Vl1Y, F!f?~!--_
6 A ;.- .
. . . i0t i e
7 Q
8 A I HW:: SCI=t: :;QPiE E!`.f.P+!7 NAMIES, I i= YOU 1, I LL
9 4XC1j;:E THE EXPRESSION. I HAVE SEEN "HORSE SHIT
10 CIF,~S''. YOU Y^U E?UY T!iL~', If~1 t1EXICO
11 r:i4'r.- HERE Ar:f: TNCpE AS POVELTIES hA°O GIt1MICKS.
12 1 HOLD THEIM, IN THE SAF1E DI5DAIN AS I DI D AT TSiG
13 TINE CAt1CER CIGAnETTrS.
14- Q ^o YOU FEEL--
,J i fIR. ,1C F;1'EN: t.OTHIt.G Pur:SO."YAL, YOU
1~ I U~.i;ERSTAND, ROGER.
17 Q C;iY ;' R. TILi:UrY) WAS THERE A h.Y ADVEF2SE
is i=ti!'.I.ICITY, DO YCU FEEL, I,. T:1E PORTLAND AREA
19 I w 19C 7, BECAUSE OF THE SALE OF CANCER C I GAF',ETTFS
20 A T:1:"PF 1-lAS N^NE TO t,',Y KP:C;lLCDGE.
21 (,
22
23
24 A
2 ~~ i
DO YOU RECAl_L SEEIi!r THE SUi'JECT OF CAt:CEfi
::"! THC f'C~P.1LA:? PF?i°rc OR MAGAZINES OR
7rLf VIS1Uf: Cr," CS. THE RADIO?
','E.L.L, I ='UES1 I wAS AS AWARE AS ;.f,YBOUY TO
j'G t.t~ !~ THE S~JC:±"_EO`.-GE'.4~AL
i 7,
4i~ r i.a .c.. ..,... ~:.. .,... ... .~:. w...
Sn
I
2
CERTAINLY HAD SO.METHING TO SAY ABOUT IT, AND I
.
A 0li, ttU. IN O. I HAVE NEVr^ SEC"! ANYTHING ON
1JAS AWARE OF THAT.
Wi:L L, I'!1 l:EFERRIt:Cr SPECIFIC.`-.LLY. TO CAPlCER
CIGARtT7ES.
CANCER C IGi-,i:ETTLS .
YOU :,IC:y'T SEt: THE A!?TICLi IN READERS' DIGEST,
FOR EXAMPLE?
A N0, S I i?.
~i~',S 'i ~JU,Z CG"ir'I t'dY COi: i t~CTiD BY ANYONE REPRESENTING
THE PRESS OR TELEVISIO"t OR RADIO WITH REGARD TO
Tric: SU3JEC.T OF THE SALE OF CANCER CIGARETTES?
A -is,,
i!R. SPAULDING: YCU IMrAN INSOFAR !1S HE
t:roiOt,rc,?
A (CONTINUING) NO. I, l70N'T KNOW.
t4? . T I LCUi:Y : F I GHT. THAT I S TRUE THROUGH-
OUT.
MR. HI LLIARD: YOU HAVE t:EEN PRETTY
TfinROUGFl, ROGER. I T' S ENOUGH FOR ME.
YOU noN' T HAVE TO K CE P D I GGI t!G FOR
MY f,rrlEFIT.
IMP. r-1c ul""r_N: I COULD rrwItZ THE SAr:e
C0.'1t:E"!T. r;c'GFft IS I)f:t1Ct3STF:ATII+G iiIS
USUP.L T!=NACITY.
l O i.i f 1 }.: 1 ('
uv
I Q (3Y MR. TILaURY) IN MR, GROUT'S tlF~;ORANDUM--I
2 AM RE'FFRt;TNC TO INTERROGATORY 52-L--iT'S QUOTtrD:
3 iV : D F'(ti I NT 4UT T() HIM I r. A Dr.AP;AT I C t1ANtdER
i
. 4 T;: t.CG;;TI`Yi' ASPECT OF HIS DISTRICUTIr.G THIS
5 I :.. t,l} TO C U S T 0 `:t t.S
.
. :
6 A I.ri iH A T, iin1. ;?
7 n T1..I.T I S CF'CUT' S STATEMENT.
8 A T() :!tlCl'~,?
9 c Ot':, I TFIII:Y TIHIhT IS TO lf+R. HERBST, Jr« I AM NOT
10 rF
~t1tfI~~.
11 l, U;; mmi,
12 Q C~~:. ?fOt., At;E YOU AVARE OF AtdY NEGATIVE ASPECTS
13 OF DfST^IGUTION OF CANCER CIGARETTES?
14 A r:CI ::r.
15 16 A R'O . AT TH AT T UMIE I!r I D"1' T lN0!1 AtiOUT TH I S
17 Ct',:;VERSATIC;'+ AND T C:~,t:'T K";~^:d WHAT THF' NEGATIVE
le ~`,S ~`~CTS C't1Ln EiE . T!-S^.T IS, ~'R0~7 A PCi?SCi.i~L
10 ^ '~~'
S T,;:~ rOI;;T.
20 If0lit DID YOt! CO'!SIDPR T-HE:1 PERSONALLY?
21 A I::I.D:,'T LIKE THEM. I f"IELT IT 11.+1S A PRETTY
7.2 ,`I.. :U-S 'i3i:'G' ;.At3 E,
23 Q J`,'.:: Y~c,1 ~ AC^~1;,I~iT~D_^~1;,I~iT~D~.;,I~iT~D ..:
iTi9 I~~^. IVrR UC:'c,nSt, I
24 t'L i_Ir-:V
2+.I 1 A ' . . : t=. ;.: ~,: ?
l_ . ~ i
90
I
Z
3
4
5
6
2
Q BEFSUS. D-E-R-S-d-S.
A Ut: 1iUH. YrS.
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSION WITH HIl4 COtiCERNItiG
C^:,:r'E: CIGf:i:ETTE,~.?
A IJ;,
Q AzE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH .JGHtv WILLIAMI SMITH,
WHO I ui: LI LVE WORKS f OR FAYLES S, IN TACO:1A
t:A'f i-tER THAN SEATTLE? I TAKE THAT BACK.
DO YOU KNOW T HAT NAME AT ALL?
A ilV'- , SIR.
Q I Li:LIEVE YOU SAID EARLIER YOU DIDN'T TALK TO
la-:Y DCDY AT PAYLESS DRUG, TO YOUR Y.N0WLEDGE,
Ai:Gi11' CANCER CI Gl;f;ET T ES?
A k Ii:n i .
Q I1kE= YOU ACQUAINTED y1lTii aiR. PROUDY?
A NG, :,IR
.
Q A2~: YOU Ai1AP,E OF ANY i?EYtiCLDS SULSIDI/1RY THAT
OPi:i:HTED IN THE STAT:: OF OF:i.:v0N OR IdASHINGTON
I;: i;67?
;':R. SPhULJIt;G: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "QPERATED°1?
iI;:. 1' I L'u U R Y: L3 I D r'~ t7 Y t= C:1 ~ 0 C' f~ Li S I@d ,~r".'. S S I id
THE STATC OF pR~:GCtt OR V,'ASt-1INGTON.
A t;C ~ Tti~,T I UF. tl07' THAT I WAS I;~,MEDIATt~LY
C:F, T'rll:T I, CAi: RECALL.
7'Il.I~UF.Y) DID YOU t1::VE OCCASION TO
.
.-..o .... i .... 1_
CC?l1F 7 {. f 4`(', j: -, 1 1: :
91
1 UI-SC!!.S5 Cr11iC::FI ~.'ITh1--CIGARETTES, YIITti 11R.
2 FE-!: C.-E -;;-E -r?
3 A I,.t';;:' '1' Klq C'-' `:iliC T?i+: CyE.ivTLL iiAiti I S p
41Q
...'_.., t.;:YLCSY ELSE IN T'-iE--HidL: I bE:LIEVE HE IS
5 !. i;,; i- Li:~;..L P A?":,;,T 0 ~ ;.%;Yv iC., LEiS T()l:A CCC
6 c;~; :I
--
7 A Tli;et,'~
f
. . . C)T:I'i_2 THl,il i-",1;. Sf'AiJLOIIrC?
A RIG~iT.
Sr^AUt.GIt:G: IN WHAT PER IOD OF TIME ARE
YCV Tr,LYING P;"t30L'T, : Y "OTt:ER THAN
, Mi:. SP!{ULhIf.G~`? I t:cVER EiEA?D OF THIS
I1AN' Ut;T I L T}i I S tA,V'St1 I T CAMIE ALOFIG.
TI L3;;;RY) 1-,'CLL, LET' S SAY 1957 OR ' b8?
A t10 , ~ I r_.
Q . . . GT(: LATER?
A ANC, SIP.
n l:E':L THi;i CAt:Y :yLLOWAhlCES THAT 1,:EPE I3EI?-+G GIVEt.--
C,^.iH ALLO~-;l-.i,CE:S, OR MtATEVEI', TO DI^I:CT ACCOUNTS
I P: "i iiE ?Oi:T. LANU AREA 1111 195710 tIT1i I? E Lt,T I ON TO
C I C7/:I' :--- T T E S ?
A T4i_. n".LY TItI+:CJ THAT CA:'lE OUT !'AS C-URIt;G TSiE
I`.. .^ i CJ~.7 ? Ci: CiF A NF Sl ;7P:e{i,P, Ai. I1LLt)t ;~iCC I S
GIVf?~,
r? h.?:D .! t.; Hr T t)CES T Ii A T AMt) U UT T0?
l y 6 ~'..~ f
92
I A USUALLY $6.00 A CASEf OR TEN CENTS A CARTON.
2 Q DUF.ING t'hf.T PERIOD OF TItiE?
3 ,A USU;,LLY T:;f~Y t:;.VE ;,"; ALLC-CATIG,N1 OF A CASE AND
4 T~tCY CE T THE $6. t;^ Ct. THAT il;PlD THAT ALnNE.
5 F'L"i(~D OF TI'~;E OP .~~:.Y PE~14G OF
6 TIi;C?
7 A f.0. IT'S U1UrtLLY DUPIG A C`:E-Urr.E}t {)tZ T'r;(;-ylEEK
8 PC^IC.%f; nF TI!rE, A j~ aD TH IS IS rA iED PAST
9 , PUrCHASES--A CERTAIT! PERCEPiTAGE OF PAST
10 P.1PC!-iASES FR0.1 Ul,~
.
11 Q I S T>!E 1'..C A%Y CC CAS I C:~'. V:iilEN Ah. AL L0',1APlCE OR
12 DI "CGU~~T I S GI VEN TO ANY CF YOUR DI RECT ACCOUidTS?.
13 A NCN1: TAT I-AM A!IARE OF, 0 iHE; THAN P.AY I NG TtiE I R
14 D?'LLS ^t-: TS!iE ANP. T~1I' N, THCY CET TWO PEP CcrdT.
15 Q T~:('l CEN'T FO(? CASH WITHIN TEN DAYS?
16 A ...TEP! DAYS. f;1GHT.
17 Q ;NIE :E T;iFrE ANlY ACCOUNTS IN THE PORTLAND AREA
18 T::AT :-:EFE PLACEn ONI A C.O.D. BASIS, riOttE OR
19 LESS?...NCT GIVE*NI THE TWO PER CENT?
20 A ;'L LL, I F THEY !;'EI;E ON C.O. D. THEY G0 T TtfE t`.'ti
21 PE P CFP!T uEC,'US: THrY VCULC HAVE TO PAY ::I TH1N
22 r:-.INI r,nYS .
23 Q ALL RIGHT. '.''E'f:r THERE ht,Y THAT Y(`l± I:L'C?UIRf'',.)
24 Tt!FFl T0 F,;,Y ChS'-I EEFOR::. THE :IE'FC'°f:I~rDISE WAS
0
Li I L--L1"LrEC, AT ALL? 0
.
7. ~ .
. .. ._.. . . . .__ _. ~ .w . _ ~ . ,
C C iJ 1< "i .," E P ~' i T E!' S
A YES. YES. I CAN'T RECALL OF ANY ONE IN
Ph.P.TiCLlLAR, ':?UT IF THEY HAD A BAD CREDIT RATItiG
1;E ','Cit1L ri--T};IS WAS A CREDIT Fl,`r.iCTI(?il--~'F WbULD
ASK TME'!1 TO PAY r,IEF(.'F'E THEY GOT THE 1tERCHAN[iISE
(?P TF!£Y C()T T4:L" '.,ETCfi/`,;iGISE,
Q A.PPk'I:~::I`:J1TEL.Y 1;t-111T C?U^:NTITIE'S t?F CIGA.f.',FTTES 1:ERC.
BI_It;G SOLD I4-a THE STATE OF QRE:GOP1 BY REYNOLDS IN
1967 It: TERMS OF CASES OR CAL'TONIS OR CARLOADS
, OP. WF1r";TTEVf=R?
A ROt.GHILY $2C,0Gf3,000 A YEAR.
C HO`f i'A1!Y--
A . . . ^OUGHLY.
Q N(?'1 HANY CAf'LOADS tIOUL(1 HAVE E'FFN SHIPPED IN
BY r''L-YP:pLDS?
A I 1!f.VE ;.;0 I Gi-:;n..
Q ...POUGHLY?
A IHr.Vi: t; 0 IDi A. , I DON'-T KI`l04.' Floti! MANY CASES
A CARLOA D I S .
n THAT I S WHAT I WA S G4I1d ; TO ASK. DO YOU HAVE
ANY I D!?11 AT ALL?
A I t~r.VF;;tT Tf;~ FAINTEST IPFA.
T+l"r^.IF c"i. A CI-sRLi`!?D, Li T'r SAY, Ci'CE A
;10iJTr; r^t~'S ^1"Y".CL.hS ' . . . ~C,'"Tt-l I';r L.I KC THAT?
A R:'r.L.i.Y I rOUL U'I'T C:IV!' YOU A C00D FIX G^: THAT.
I ;it:V:. ;T. I'~.-r. ~
..
rr
~,..-, irt; :I; G;:{,S CUT OF M
... .~e ~ _ .
. ~
tI i f. L' .'~:~.. ~'...f ~ .a~ .1.'w X.
C.0Uf<T ~cr , ~ :_ r[;
RE.SPONSIBILITY.
Q l:'EC:E THERE A;iY IvEI! CIGARETTES i:EING INTrODUCED
I:: 1967?
A tsY F,EYt;OLC+S?
YL=S.
A titt4EIN L~II) C:ri-;: I. FILTE^ COME OUT? I TI-ilt.K IT WAS
SOt,i:PLhCE AROUND THAT TI^SE', OR JUST PRIOR TO
19(,7, I UF.LIC:VE.
Q DID VANTAGE CONF OUT IN 1970, I TFlINK IT WAS?
A UH 47U0.
Q '..!r',S ll'i-IERE AtL1.YTIHIING ELSE THAT CAME OUT UUr;IPdG
I:i.CEi:T YEARS B1' WAY OF A NEW CIGARETTr?
A OFl, ;.L I-iAp ;v I PJSTON SUPER K I idG I N THE CCt1PAN I ON
TO '.;Ii;STnt1 f,1t) WINSTON SUPER hIlyG t1NN'tFiOL, Ai4U
THEN THEfiE :--'AS DORAL RECcPdTLY----Tl-10 YEARS -AGO
I tJ J UNE .
1!AS TfiL" ST.tiC: KItID OF ALL01!l1kCF. LXTENUCC) FOR ALL
GF THOSE?
A YES, S IF..
L U!!1S PORTLAND A TEST t;ARF,ET Oi' TEST AREA FOR ANY
CC' PRODUCTS? I T SELE:C'I ED AS THE F I RST
(:I TY i 0 u I ST? I i3UTC SC;+1C !'A l:T I CUL~,R li}:!'~,i;Cj?
A t'r-,Gc" I rA. +;A DF. I RA Sf-iQK I::C T%': A CCO, 1 L I E`: P.
V.ri5 TEJTED It: PORTLANi?,, CC`EC(:N.
".C 'r;iAT,?
C.0, 1 /i< T I:L(';)i, i ~
A PP.OiiABLY 19GG.
Q U+iY W.,S PORTLAND SELECTED F-OR THAT?
A I~i,',VE s;C I DEA. I f:EALLY HAVE NO I DEA
Q
A i1 A I,:G i::^i'LE Xif11!E Ttir: SE L'CC I S I OlaS 0?
t~T h1 E
.
0 t.:J Yk;U
,~:~<(;'; 3y1aS? OF C~3iiP;C
, '
~:::Y Hf:VF BLEi: AFTEi Y: U LEFT PORTLAND.
A U`: 'HUrl.
PORTLAND ti.AS S,EL ECTFD OSdF OF T-4t) OR
FOR MAr'.ETIt1G t'Of.' THE F :RST TI`r1E OF
`v'r'',t.'f:,GE C I GARETTES?
A I:.'L:LIFVE IT WAS. DORAL AS WELL. I THINK THAT
4rr;S INi--
Q
Nt_, i'AF:,f'I CUL1',R RE:AS()IN PORTLAND t;t1S SELECTED?
I-; Ji:ST HP,+7aENED TO BE: A;S:.ITPA(;ILY SELECTED?
I S THAT THE REASnN?
O1Utti'T KtJO!!.
t'sR. SF'~~ULUItlG: t!C S..IO HE
A IRL'ALL't' l:Oi;' T KNOW.
Q
':Y "R. TI LUUF,Y) ALL h IGi; T,
A iTHE -ARKuTING PCOPI.E MAKE THESE tiECISIO!'IS.
Q
I '..GIUt:; HAVE REASON.
_-
0i;. YOU ACQU~;INTCU lv'IT'ri 11. A. itASSl;EPE'
': '~-a~ ^G;::lFPLY OF RIVE!;SIi:F
CA L l i'vt ~i I A ?
~ . .' T .
(. 0 U P. 't {-; F P ') 1" -1 I.
2
3
Q WHERE IS HE AT THE PRESENT TIME?
A I UNDERSTAND HE LCFT THE CC'Sr ANY, I DCti' T KNOW
tJlrE-1-1t3F IS AT.
Q DO YOU KNC,' '.'1.,Y HE LEFT THE C{`t-dPAN'Y?
A I Nn I rE ^..
Q DID ;'CU nI~C'_',S CA1?GrR CIGJ1?_TTES WITH tiI'1?
A N0 ,
Q GO Y^;) Y,PdG+.! CF ANY INSTANCE 'WfIE2E REYNOLDS TOOK
St'1"'E STAIIND THAT WAS OPPOSED TO THE PbSITIQN OF
T1aEE TCR ".CCt} INDUSTRY?
A tlc, STP. I H.AVE NO IDEA.
Q N"0`:, IS THERE ALSO A TERM CALLED A'TLEAD MARKET"?
A YES. I HAVE HEARD THAT TERM.
q
:;'HAT DbES TPr,T TFRt1 MEAN TO YOU?
A A T:'`_; !:':G r!`r)R A LEAD-IN TYf'C OF THI6NIG.
0 IS THAT THE SP.MC AS TEST IMAfiKET, MORE OR LESS?
A f:C. Ti':l:I'E IS A DIFFEREr.TIAL, !31JT IT'S A
VEMI";tzCULJ1R THAT OUR MARKETING PEOPLE USE AND I
Co!;' T UNIDE;?STArJD THEIR TALK ALL THE TIME.
Q IN' T+lE PORTLAND AREA,, ,;HI LE YOU WERE TilEFtE, WAS
TticPE ANY t;TflD OF PAYtf''NT MACE TO RETAI L STORES
cn,n c ;-LV] `:i SPACE TO {?ISPL.AY ~:{~.-'Y!'lt~Lt)S '~.-'Y!'lt~Lt)S' PRODUCTS?
A APr.: YOU TALKINC `,"cUT SELF-SErVICE CARTONS OF
n
CIr.'`f''TTL'S 0!?. Pl.Cs;ACES?
;'._ LL .: T Tt!{'^ !}~fE?
,
W
a
97
I
2
A !fiELL, WE HAVE HAD A DISPLAY PLAt1--A PACKAGE
DI S!'LAY PLAN.
Q HC:: DOES IT ;-,Uf:K?
4 A lw1-CL[., !-.'E V0ULl:J PAY Tl-1F RETAIL ACCOU,;T--I BELIEVE
5 I1T i';PtiT TI;,"-- IT T:':^."i" t'il:rKA+:3ES OF CIGr'1R:7TES
6 TC, DI Sf'L:^-,Y ;?;.1 THE C1-fUNTF.,r: THREE CAr TOt`sS OF A
7 I:Rr?`7 OF OUR CHOICE.
8 Q F"r 1.'H/'.T !''ERIG:.? C? TI1".I.C?
9 A FOR A TWO-'+EEK PE~2IGD.
10 r<1 ALL RIGHT. C?1";r: P,1CI; FOR EACH DISPLAY CARTC"-l?
11 A T'-'I'.T'S RIGHT.
12 Q ...OUf' 1 P?G A T?10-14EEt: PE^ I OD?
13 A RIGHT.
14 C IF, TN''!'.E ALSC' l>Id 'LLO;':al'CE. GIVEN FOR JUST
15 F:,V^f A-BLE F'(`S I T I 0X ::tJ Tf-lE SHE LVES . A"f FRED MYER
1s OF. SC~IET}:I^:G LIKE THAT?
17 A k't: DI[)N'T AT THAT TIt"iE. CUR COMPETITORS DID.
18 Q D^ YOU KNO!! THE EXTENT OF T;-iE ALLW.J1IdCES THAT
'9 WE^ c-E MADE BY YOUR CO;-tPET I TC,C'c;i?
20 A r~:~ .
21 C~ p.':t? IS THERE A":Y IKIiiD OF r!,Yi-"Ei:T THAT t'AS--OR,
22 V",S Tlii":r C.^-,NY I-:INID OF 1-'AY'~i_NT NIADr. FOR SPACE
23 ~. VI'r;[?I^~~ '1~1CtRI"1"c5 I*1 Pt1Pi"Lf:;:D If' 1967?
24
A Y:'.S. '.1f: v^;;SIDCREf) :k: I.~,C±iIt.E OPERATORS
A::[; I 4FL
3 c:VC THE CFF: "
,.~-
`. - i'~{ I !.. /', C C'J7
0
~
WE diADF ~
93
I TO THE RETAIL ACCOUNTS OVER THE COUNTER WAS
2 ALSO G I.'EN TO OUR VEND I f1 i MACN I Nc nPFRATnRS ON
.,.,
3 A~, L 'i A 517,
.
4 3IVIt:G THEM TH'? PACKS nr CICARFTTCS WAS
5 TP-i'`^;: ". :Y CASH PAID :'n? "(~Sr71'~"S Tt: `JF:'!nING
s ti fi tr l,l.. C? ,
7 1 A NO, S Ir .. N'OT OTHER THAtJ 1-,HAT I HAVE MENTIONED.
8 I Q DID YCi:.:" CG!-;PCTtTC?rS ALSQ GIVE SIt'TLAR TYPE
9-1 ALLr i1 A7:CES Ut!D;'i? THOSE C I RCL)tiSTArdCES?
to I A Yt' >, :, :^.. TO !'sHAT EY,Tt"'-;T, I D^h:' T KNOW.
11 Q 1:0 YGU RECALL IF !',t.YQNF' REPRESENTING REYNOLDS
12 ?7ALE A STATCIME=NT TO TIHE EFFECT THAT CANCER
13 CiGA ?E:TTFS wER~ NIOT GOOD FOP, THE INDUSTRY, CR
14 W!'RDS TO TIiI.S t:EErCT?
15 A I f. Ml t: C T At-i ARy= i F I T.
16 Q ...13ESIDES THOSE TI{TNGS THAT YOU HAVE TOLD US
17 ~'. E ; 10 r, T?
18 t, t: o .
19 Q ARE YOU ACQUAiMTf_-D !lITH ANY POLICY WHICH YOUR
20 COt{pAtdY HAS IN'SOFA(? AS T T RELATES TO THE AINTI-
Z1 T^UST LAWS OF T!-!F UNITEtD s'I'ATES?
22 A '::::kL, TO ME, 'tlli:t; I Tt.'INK OF ANIT--TRUST, 1?IiAT
23 ':'C Cc"F::.P. 0N- F`'^ s()tJ 1-;E 'rfA`!I' TO OrFGR THE !dEXT
24 ,3.~,:i) T~lIS IS !:~ir'.T AD.;ERE T0. THIS IS WHAT
25
..~ .~...,~ ... ;.r. o
CU( ! P" l (. i P -) r T ! 1, c
4
5
;+E1.Lt DO YOU KNOw--EXCUSE ME. DO YOU KNOW OF
Ai:Y OFFICIAL STATEMENT THAT YOU HAVE RECEIVCD
F r.7f ;THE CO!At'AtaY, CF: t? I~:ECT I'.~E THAT YOU HAVE
RZ-CEIVE:D FROM 0";E OF--
A
6 C; ...T (`.f'FICIALS D f nr'YN 0 LDS?
7 A .`.o, S;r.
S Q Ht^,V27 YOU fiR.D ANY EXPOSkt fE TO THE 'MANUi°ACTURI"IG
9 SILc OF THE CIGf;i?~:.TTE IPlDUSTRY?
10 A _'
"
sI~>
.
,
'I Q [);+ YCU t;;-:C'4 OF A:'Y NEW HANUC''ACTUS2CF; OF CIGARETTES
12 T11LT HAS CnttF. I NTO IBE I NG !-: I TH I FJ THE LAST TEN '
13 YraP ~?
~
14 Ni iZ. SPl'tiULOI,:G . TE'{ ~'F!'.~",S?
15 n C:=Y - 3:?. TIL"Ut;Y) ...Il~ T;'i. Ut11ITED STATES?
16 A T!'f fiE !!AS ONE HERE IN TEXAS THA T I HEARD ABOUT.
17 NC'.', THEY MADE THE, LETTUCE-TYPE OF CIGARETTE.
18 Q Bi AVO C I Gr1F:ETTE?
19 A .: i:AVO.
20 ~ V'rIAT ~'AS I TS FATE? DO YOU KNIO't ?
21 A I i FOLDz-G`. IN FACr, I THIN't: IF YOU LCO1: AROUND
22 T'i~ i:-EA YOU CAP! STILL FINE SO!i E iIf;AVO CIG",fc{'TTES
~v I _; I LL r,N T!-fE `.':,l5, Y_7V+=,:AL YEARS Ol.i). V'J T
24 I Tt~CY i=.r?[: ;:.: LO::GE.'-'. IN t'.USIt"'LSa, TO S°tY r:llOtdLFDGE.
'li=.:'....t'( T:?f`Ii: nDl!Ci .
17~17~ ,
Ci.." .,.~.C. G .i. . .. . r~.. w L .. w .{.~ 1
C i) ;,! 12 1 I: h. P .) F2 l. ".
1
~
Q ALL RIGHT. !v}!0 WAS THE MANUFACTURER?
A 1.'C:LL,, IT 1!AS A CC'-!F'APlY IN DALLAS. I DON'T
T1-'E OF I T. 3~riV0 Si~i~Jl':[:S ~Jl':[:S~ OR
4 cr',i:THING I,.IY:F THAT.
5 Q '.'!,aS T-'.:~.T ;;ADE r:; T OF L;.."T''"~..'.,~E~
~ ,
6 A S'j ~.".r" t)LY. I D:?t-ti'T THAT IS WHAT THCY
7 i::='J::i TISED THl=T IT ;~'I:S, A LETTUCE-TYPE CIGARETTE.
tJ ~, ;;c) Ynt,. I:i.;:.,.' OF ANY rT}tER CIGARETTES THAT HAVE
9 C:-''.7 '`'TO E~F I C.G? t: THE LAST TEN Y:AE? i THAT WERE
. :.
10 NCT +;P;'rl:{FACTUi=:::D.E:Y t. t:A.Jni; TC'5F,CC1 CC:NIP~'+t:Y IN
11 T};t UNITED STAT::S?
12 A SIF.. I DON'T.
13 YCU FAt;ILIAR i,+ITtt THE CONTINENTAL TOPACCO
14 C(?.`"i Y~ FCr, rXAiif'LE?
15 A 1:HfiT s?r!`.t:i-' OF CIG/1i rTTES?
~~ Q CC7:7Itlc~?Tl;L TCCACCO CG;IPARY.
17 A r-; o. IA 1"I P:0 T'.
1 4 Q ...OR 1''ITH VENTURE CIGAPETTES?
~vt
A ~1 .-::' T U ~~ C : r~.~~TURE. J~ s e;I T i1 ~ ''. ^? I D4t~' T i:ECALL
: ~+ tit~Er
TT. LET' S SEE? 4:'I'iAT ':?Aa T FEi`,T? I HAVE HEARD
Tll-'.E V:t:TURE CE(=ORC. YES, I HAVE.
I+L.L t.;-iT. DO YCU }-,',\'L n,P'.Y M'.;C;iLCDGC" OF :i:.Y-
'
* ^ ,:3nt;T I T?
,
A I 11:',VE SFZ-Td T}-lEM.
II I CrZi:' T
THE LSt;E,, Li:T__
~.c1, f:.
.1Q
@: e ..:.d o .L.'. ..:.. . y .~ t.w
COl1 :- F: F:;! 1 r r`.
101
t
r
~ Q ALL. RIGI-IT. IF IT WILL HELP, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING
2 THAT T:-f I S WAS A PfiLDUC T THAT WAS MADE FROM A
3 TL'AT .-!AS P<C T S P^P,YEID 1; I Tt-S THE NORMAL
4 C~~r:.".I C!'.L SP^AYS?
L'6 tt ~~''. S i;:AT nli+G ~: Si:LL AT ALL?
7 A Y;.S. YCS. I Hr,VE HEARD EXACTLY THAT.
~ Q t`,l"it DO YOU f;i"tOt! WHAT I TS FATE i!11S? HAVE YOU
g Si.Fid TifiEIR PRODUCT?
10 A ~.!:+, I H:;VEN' T:;FFN TiiLM. r;(}, S IR .
11 Q I: THERE ANY KIND OF ESTA`3LIS;iCD nROCEDUCZE,
12 17ftIC1! YOU AFE AWARE C'F, WHICH REYNOLDS HAS IN
13 I T,II: ["J,:NT Sa;~ETHIt:C OF AN UNH'ALTtIFUL CHARACTER
14 l':yS LE:NCOU;tT~R.L'D 1!ITH RESPECT TO CIGARETTES IN
15 S'LiICH, YOU WOULD R1:PORT THIS TO SO!?E:OPaE?
16 ?'~R . SPAULD1t:G : WHAT? I CAN' T QUITE HEAR
17 FoR THAT WHISTLE.
lu ::F' . T I LB UR Y : MY OGEST I Or, S.AS, IN THE EVENT,
10 Ir 1T DID OR DID NOT OCCUR, THAT
20 SOM[ THIP:G !r'AS E;:CC?UNTERED It: A
d~ CIrfi,RCTTE +.:f;iICta HAD 'S0MrTHINry THAT
r
~~ "AS DAfiAG I NC P*IYS t Cl1LLY TO E'EOPLi:',
1:'OL'R1:! YOU REPO'^."t' IT, Oi' WAS THERE A
rROCEDU.°,F FOR D:?INIG T;iI S?
r,r +
ALL 1~t ~:FC!t.~,MATInr. ~r THAT WE l.rt,'~
vULD
CQU i:'1 1: i:i`;Ji: i"t' 1' S
, .....~._.
HEAR. IIHE:At^J, THIS IS A NORMAL P?OCEDURE. I
Mlr.l\14, 'rr HI':Vr A SPACE n^: OUR DAI LY PEPORTS FOR
T.i~.T. Ir SC,"E-f+-+I;dG fijtit) I.raP; SURE Tf+J1T V F
f,~!:' R"^f)r, TEJ IT. CUT I REALLY DCtd'T
YOU 2EF~~?a I ~: ; TfJ
.
TTt.GUE:Y) i-.',_LL, LET MEE JUST ASK YOU
CAN YCII! THI NK OF ANY S ITt1AT I y1N
It: t'ri1CF; YCtj f,AVF FOU;-'D S0NE CONDITION THAT YOU
f=,°:L 3:'r.~ ;l~~'.i~r>LTf1rUL AtT THAT YOU HAVE RC'i'eaTED
TC CITHc-,', RTE=YNIOLCsS OR A GOVE P,!'A1FIITAL AGENCY OR
NNY"!?DY ELSS?
A 0 fll , N'o.
c nC YOU OF AN`! OF YOUR SALES PEOPLE t!fi0 D I D?
I`i rru" , Si^. I AY. t'.CT A:'P. '(`F tT
Q D4 YOU OF ANY ESTABL I SHED rR.OCEDURE, FOS?t4,
Q^ SG:,,_T`iV:G FLSF_--
A i i li
i
0 ... TH,",T YOU CUT Ii: T11C EVwr<T THAT S I TU11TI41'!
f41 ilSr~) A f:(), SI-2.' A n.-';ILY RL":FC':T, ".'fi1C1f IS A ''()"`'AL
T'-ai;i` ,
0 f,f,... ,:I ..:T. Do YG'.J
S
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. . . !' -. i . -
IP S7 T rj `LY i* I C
.:.f e 1..--._~'.a
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REQUIREMENTS OF THE UNITED STATES?
t;n, S I r:. I HAVE NO I D" A.
~ Ci:';- YiU l: ~E'T;:Z:'? THE SA;..ES OF T48ACCC}
;?>> :FF`+ ~E'CLPII'',!= IN RFCFi,IT YEARS?
i. i 1l,~.V:. ,in TN;"",7..-iAf .r-s4 r)i,' Ti1AT. .
C P ; D IS C'JS 7!1I Tli KESCT IA1'Y STATEMCI`ITS
T:-;Ai" H°,VE CEE;.N t^ADL' TO `1IM prY lV.'11i2FEN COLLINS OF
Cl)'...Li `:S ~!-.'I L!"= SA3011T CA3;CC^ C IGARETTES?
A `:,,~T 'fr!.:sT I CAII R17-CALL.
DO Y~.C! P.r.iiLiii..1EF' :,%f~YT`II;!S ELSE TI'AT MR. KESETI
f C' Yr~U r.i~i~t~T C~i'CEr CIGARETTES
1>~~.ir ~'lr,.~.(,*.' SAID
T.LI;tT YOU NAVFN' T ALREADY TOLD US Ai:0UT7
A N' C, SI'.
YOU :*kCQ'J,'1IifTri: '~1ITti AUDIOFAX, I BELIEVE
ULLIEVE IT IS,
OUTSI DE OF CRA'"<G T FCii':I.Ih, NOT TOO FAR
F+~.r 1;'S ,".,ITTI'=~'.
. ~ ~
A 1,11'J' i.F.'~X?
Q Y=;. IT'5 ALL 01.L' IRCLIE:`r'C.
DC YOU P^UL FfiIIS?
rt.l,':. F^;I.ri?
.i1S.C'+ .
22 i ^ ;.> `_ F P. I I S F; `
Gil
24
..,
A " : `.' , S 3i "
C '" Tli;t%"t?C:H.
n :+ ,. , TuIst ~K I /',~~ . .
.+« <.. .a-. '.._~
1
`UE:STIC*1S.
2 .!iC E.dEti : I'.:OUI.D HAVE NO QUEST I OtJS.
~ CROSS EXAMIP.ATIOta
4 BY tir,, > t>,!\Ut_i 1 ~dC .
5 '^r a Ti1I` STAMPING ;iACfiIitL OR Ttitr
i1I."!c A;:D THE RIG1iT TC
7 5'; :~.'"'f' T hiL S'f."-.t"f'S Ot: T i-!E C IGAf:LTT%S f:EQUI RE A
. 8 LICur:C'?
9 A ... BY Tt-1E STATE. ES.
1~r ~'
E03; A LICEPiSE ::iJL QUI7E:
1~ A PT:QC_'DUr.E.ry
12 A 1"E LLp I HAVE NEVER G;?I;C T3-1fi0UGF1 THAT PROCEDURE~
~3 PUT I UfiDE?tSTAf,ID THAT IT I S. YOU HAVE TO I3E A
14 REPUT!`,F3LE ~USIfrFSS E~'TA3L I51t`iCfiT AND YOU HAVE
15 TO
.,,..
16 Q ...Ar:U MAKE A SHoWING?
17 A Y E S .
1 ~ Q WH !W'i. "LSO YOU ;"EflTIOtiEf) TI;:%T SOM E RETAIL
10 ACCOU;;TS THA T--SOt-PiE CALLS ON i ETAI L ACCGWNTS
~
20 t;E 1~OWNR T() .'3E N0t4-P20DUCT I Vtr?
21
~ C0
f: i T:iE FACT Ti!AT YOU PEOPLE
2.9 iil~:;.'CI~~~?: 'riiT TO CO.~'If:U~' TO CALL :~t: iHOSE
~ ACC^[:?'T
'E
"
L S L
ECl.JSC C:t HAVE
2 i TO DO u'I T`d '.;HE1`t1ER T;iAT ACCOUP;T CAN
; CCUR r. F:rP ;.r r F:~
1
A 0!f, ,NnT AT ALL. THEY CAN CnNTiNUE TO HUY OUR
PRODUCTS AT ANY TIl,E FROM Wfi0MEVE7 THEY WI SH.
3
4
~
~
THOUGH YnU 4!!VF f?7C T DSD THAT BECAUSE THEY
APE N^Pa---Tt,t? CALLS Ai?E NON-Pf;ODt1CTIVE, THEY AR!~
NOT ;'!)'.',TH C0'ETIr't±t"a!; TO f?E f"A.7E?
A f?IrHT. THEIn. VOLUME USUALLY IS EXCEEDINGLY LOW.
MR. SPAULPING: OK. THAT'S ALL.
MR. TILBURY:
JUST ONE QUESTION.
REDTF.PCT EXAMINATION
BY "it'. TILRUhY:
Q t+ro.` FXPEti'SIVC APE THFSE STAMPING ftACH1NES?...ANY
IPFA AT ALL? APE THEY OUTTE EXPENSIVE?
YES.
lw
Q Nn'.'! !'',l`,NY D('LLARS, P0!1GHLY?
A f.f'.Y'_;L $5,0n!1.QD, ROUrHLY.
Q f!i!G> IS IT ESSENTIAL THAT YOU HAVE A STAMPING
'1.~1C!~ I r!E?
A P:n. N O. THEY CAF' Cl=--
Q .,, n!? CAN YOU JUST STAMP I T BY HAND I F YOU
WANT TO?
A R I G;-! T.
P?R. SPAUf_QINC: IF YC>U HAVF COT THc.TIc'I-.
A ( r- ('`"'TI1iUIr:r) T"AT IS ~>=~''~~~IVE IN ITSFLtT.
~ (r'Y f!^. TIL°U^Y) ^x:.
L.=' 4 ....`.i A
r_,.) U!-
MFt. T I Li:U;'.Y : TNAT' S ALL.
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