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TA 656 I CONFIDENTIAL" TLW Minutes of the 11th Meeting of the Public Relations Sub-Committee of T.A.C. held at Glen House, Stag Place, Londos~, .S.W.1. .oi~ .Ti}e~yt . $tt~ .May . ~.279 RECEiVEJ E'f INDUSTPV PLLAT1r3tVS Present: Six James Wilson Chairman Mr. C. G. Knowles Mr. M. J. Leach Mr. G. IT. Moore Mr. M. E. H. Mulholland Mr. P. J. Sanguinettf Mr. A. W. M. St."Aubyn l. Apologies Apologies were received from Mr. B. D. Roach, Mr. P. M. Steele, Mr. C. C. Redstone and Mr. H. B. Grice. 2. Minutes of the previous'meeting . The minutes, circulated as TA 272 (revised), were approved and signed by the Chairman. 3.. Matters arising from-tha'Minutes (a) P. N. Lee's paper on"doctors''mortality It was reported that this paper had been submitted to the B.M.J. but that it was unlikely_to.be published before the end of the year. [ (b) Hunter Report The Chairman reported that he had had a meeting with Lord Hunter and D.H.S.S. officials as a preliminary to the meeting with the Executive Committee on lst June arid that he had circulated a note setting out the details of what Lord Hunter was planning and T.A.C.'s reading of the situation. He had spoken since to all members of the E.C. and also circulated a draft outline of the 3rd Report which he thought P.R.S.C. members would want to see. The Chairman added that copies of the minority report, with the Director's note on the of this had also been sent to companies. . D.H.S.S. Officials' views N Ctt O ~ . ~ CT~ tfl ~ 1- -I A

9 It w4s agreed that it would be essential for companies to have a very full discussion-before the meeting with Lord Hunter. (The Executive Committee have arranged to me®t at 11.30 a.in. on lst June £or.this purl5ose). (c) Forest Mr. Knowles said that a recent conversation with Geoffrey Evans indicated that 'Forest' would now not be launched before mid-June. It was felt that, in view of some of the reservations expressed about this organisation by P.R. Agencies, the delay would not be to our disadvantage. Mr. Sanguinetti thought that T.A.C. should query the use of the name 'Forest' in view of the unfortunate connotations that could be attached - forest fires, backwoodsmen etc. After discussion it was agreed that the Chairman should write to Sir Christopher Foxley-Norris to let him know of our misgivings and propose a more straight forward title such as 'Freedom to Smoke'. Members discussed how T.A.C.'and the Companies should respond to press enquiries following the organisation's launch. The Chairman said he thought that T.A.C. should reply that while they were aware of its existence Glen House had no connection with tTie•new organisation and that enquiries should be directed to member•companies.'•Mr_ Mulholland proposed.that his company should reply that Fofest was•aa indep6ndent organisation, that it . . . . . seemed a good:idea for it to support smokers and that the company had -provided financial support and nothing more. - (d) Metra Report The Chairman said that he fully appreciated the I.C.O.S.I. reasons for not wishing to see the report given wide publicity, particularly outside the D..IC. He thanked Mr. Mulholland and Mr. Knowles for the great deal of work they had put in to ensure its limited use in Britain. Mr. Mulholland said that D.H.S.S. had raised a number of technical questions about the report which had been answered. They had also asked for further analysis of the data to compare total consumption with the numbers who smoke and with per capita consumption. Mr. Knowles added that Imperial were not inclined to try to provide answers to these questions on the grounds that repeated re-runs of the data would undoubtedly produce a result unfavourable to the industry eventually: it was the'I.T.L,-view that the report should stand on its own as a discrete piece of research. N C7 O - s ~ tn to . ~ - 2 - • ~l ~ tn

7 In dibaussion it was agreed that, while the Chairman should write a congratulatory letter to Dr. Vaughan on his appointment as Minister of State, Health, there was no need to mention Metra at this stage. 2. Review-of the Political Situation Members-noted and discussed the Ministerial appointments relevant to the industry's affairs.-•' Department of Health It was thought that, with Patrick Jenkin likely to take a neutral view on smoking and Dr. Vaughan's pragmatic approach, the industry could be faced with a very reasonable team with whom to negotiate. The Chairman said he would be writing to Dr. Vaughan to establish' contact; he had misgivings abcaut Sir George Young as an Under Secretary for Health. Indu t4X Department The Chairman proposed that T.A..C. should find out from Peter r Hudson how the departmental responsibilities would be divided between the Ministers of State and then write to Mr. Adam Butler to establish a contact. Treasury •• The Chairman said that the amended Budget representations would. shortly be sent to Sir Geoffrey Howe but he thought that.T.A.C. might well do best.to deal principally with Mr. Peter Rees, who.was already well briefed, on detailed tobacco taxation matters. Some members thought that while there was a good chance that the Government would abolish the tar surcharge,,it might be best•if we were to tackle this issue later in connection with harmonisation. . Members agreed that when the Opposition Shadow Ministers were nominated T.A.C. should establish and maintain contact with the key people. 5. Public Relations Organisation 2501159476 '(a) P.R. Agency Presentations Copies of the Chairman's letters (TA 607/8/9 & 610) to the four agencies were tabled. Sir James said that he thought that Campbell Johnson Ltd., had surpassed expectations in their presentation:Good Relations had indicated a new dimension to the P.R. approach which could have advantages but might •involve risks. He suggested that Good Relations should be asked to vake a special presention to the Executive Commi.ttee, who would have to determine whether or not they wished to embark on this rather different road. - 3 -

No members were in favour of Good Relations'proposal that T.A.C.'s P.R. Director should be provided from their staff since this could lead to divided loyalties. Mr. Knowles said that if the P.R.O. element was removed from Good's budget estimate and some of the more ambitious proposals were pruned, it ought to be possible to reduce the basic budget to a more practical level of around £100,000 p.a. It would then remain to be seen whether Goods were prepared to work on a lesser scale than the total project they had proposed. Members thought that T.A.C. should discuss the ways in which the programme could be slimmed down before it was re-presented to the E.C. Mr. Mulholland* felt that the presentation had demonstrated the agency's style and personality without putting forward any definite proposals. He thought that the choice of Goods or Campbell Johnson would determine the approach used by T.A.C.'s P.R.O. The key questions seemed to be, would Goods be sufficiently flexible, and able to throttle back and listen to caution and could Campbell Johnson progress from their historical advisory role and provide the capacity to tackle a consumEer oriented programme. ~ . Members also considered that the possibility of retaining Campbell Johnson Ltd., as policy advisors to the Research Committee should be examined. Campbell Johnson might also be retained to provide the press information service and assistance with building up a Glen House information service. (b) Staff Recruitment The Chairman reported that so far four candidates had been interviewed for the job of Public Affairs Director. Only one of these had seemed suitable, and he was not availab le till after the European election. Executive Appointments Ltd. had since been contacting a further set of candidates for interview in June. 6. Report by the Working'Party-on'PUblicity . Mr. Leach introduced this Report, TA 606, saying that it set out what the working party considered to be the primary issues as the basis for a speaking script, together with the secondary issues, i.e. those that were most likely to arise as a result of presenting the primary issues to an audience. The paper.then went on to outline in broad terms the manner in which it was proposed to deal with the key and secondary

9 issues in a presentation. It concluded with the proposals that, for the next step, the working party should:- . (a) begin preparing the outline script as a basis for an audio visual presentation, (b) enlist the help of industry experts in the preparation of briefs for secondary issues as a vital part of the total speaker's kit, (c) preparea testing and evaluation programme which might progress from industry management audiences through a series of 'tobacco family' audiences to the public. Here it was envisageicl ttiat professional consultancy help would be required. I In commenting on this paper Mr. Mulholland proposed that the W.P.-should add, as important secondary issues, the cost of anti-smoking measures, particularly in the enforcement area, and the significance of smoking as an annoyance in relation to other factors in life. Mr. Moore added that the W.P. had taken the view that so far as possible the programme should concentrate on the positive aspects of smoking and the industry, keeping responses to the negatives to the secondary issues.• He also thought that the time-scale of progress from moving from the,first so called 'friendly' audiences to the more hostile type of confrontation would probably be quite rapid. In a discussion on sources of speakers, members of the Working Party said they thought these might come from Chairman T.A.C., retired senior ~ . tobacco industry people, Public Relations Staffs of the companies and from the tobacco trade; the speaker being chosen according to the audience. It was agreed, on the Chairman's suggestion, that the Working Party should go ahead with the next steps as set out in the paper. N ~ O . ~ 7. T.A.C. Information Seryice-in'Glen-House - '' Cn (D The Sub-Committee considered paper TA 596. v 00 Members had doubts about the need or desirability to collect detailed brand share information but it was agreed that Glen House ought to have up to date data on the market structure for main product groups, cigarettes, cigars and tobaccos. 5

9 It was agreed that Glen House should press on with assembling the basic commercial data into a new filing and retrieval system and, as technical assistance became available from the P.R. Agency, with_the additional information on smoking and health and on parliamentary topics. 8. Social Acceptability . Mr. Sanguinetti said that paper TA 424 represented Imperial's summary of research work recently carried out for all companies and set the scene of the industry''s vulnerabilities and strengths. Members thought that these results emphasised most strongly the need for a positive publicity campaign particularly in the area of passive smoking and of social acceptability. Concern was expressed at the apparent low level of credibility of the industry's statements on smoking and health but Mr. Knowles said other recent research had shown there could be considerable variability in this result. Mr. Mulholland thought that this paper pointed to the need for continuing research and monitoring of both the general and.specific areas of social acceptability. 9. Stockholm Conference'='June'1979 The meeting noted the arrangements being made to monitor the 4th World Conference on Smoking.and Health by the I.C.O.S.I. Task Force (TA 581). Members felt that there was no requirement for.further sci.entific representation from the U.K. nor was•there a need to arrange for a newspaper or trade journal representative to attend-and have access to the press room. _ It was reported that I.C.O.S.I. background papers on the Conference had been delayed in preparation but it was hoped they would be available by the end of May. 10. loth International-Conference'on'Health'Education Members were asked to consider what action T.A.C. might wish to take regarding this event. Mr. Mulholland proposed that the I.C.O.S.I. Task N w Force which was currently dealing with Stockholm should be asked to O ~ consider this conference too. ~j t0 Cfl

11. Proposed SmokiM'Restrictions (a) London Transport-Executive The Chairman expressed qualified satisfaction at the outome of the meeting with Mr. Hooper, Marketing Director, L.T.E., though the whole Situation, and espeMally. the attitude of the'Transport Users Committee, would need careful watching for-further'developments. Mr. Knowles said that later conversations and correspondence between I.T-.L. and Mr. Hooper•indicated that, if field testing of further restrictions on buses•was carried out, it would be on all routes rather than on selected-ones as we had supposed. He quoted from Mr. Hooper's letter of 24th April to Mr. T.C.H. King of Imperial:- - °I think you should know, as I have already told Sir James Wilson, that London Transport do not intend to take any moralistic view regarding smoking on public transport, neither do they seek in any way to damage the tobacco companies. Should we decide to test public reaction to smoking or otherwise on what-we regard as 'their transport' then obviously we would want to do this in the most meaningful way. By this I think we mean a field test, rather than research. In this event we could consider the Tobacco Advisory Council and ourselves undertaking a joint monitoring of such a test." (b) Glasgow-Underground Members had before them the Director's note (TA 601) of• a conversation with Messrs. Southam and Tipple of the R.C.T.A. It was agreed that the Chairman should write to the Director General of the Glasgow Transport Executive in similar terms as the earlier letter to the Chairman of L.T.E. Mr. Mulholland offered to discuss the setting up of a consumer survey in Glasgow with Gallaher Market Research Department with a view to putting a proposal to the sub-committee. - 7 -

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12. H.B.C. Passive'Smoking'References Members expressed the view that the paper (TA 530) prepared by Dr. W. D. Rowland would not be a sufficiently formal rejoinder on this issue and that T.A.C. should be thinking of a paper on passive smoking in its widest terms and for a much wider audience. In this context it .'was noted that I.C.O.S.I. would shortly be releasing a major paper which Could fulfill such a purpose. 13. Director of A:S.H. '-'Mr: 'D: 'Sitopson . , .. . . Mr. ICnowles suggested that T.A.C. should consider whether a meeting should•be arranged with Mr. Simpson following his appointment as Director A.S.H. Members took the view that; while it was important t;a get an insight of Mr. Simpson, direct contact with him might be unwi'se. It was therefore proposed and agreed that Campbell Johnson Ltd., should be asked to approach him and report their findings. 14. McKennell Paper; 'TA ' 393_ it aras reported that this paper had been submitted for publication but that it was unlikely to appear before the end of the year. Members agreed that, following publication, it could be advantageous to seek wider publicity for those aspects of the paper that are favourable to the industry. 15. Mr. F. Sheridan (TA 529) It was agreed that T.A.C. should meet Mr. Sheridan to attempt to discover his attitude to smoking,and the line that his proposed book miqht take,before giving a commitment to help him with the project. 16. Other Business No items were raised. 17. Date of next,meeting The next meeting was arranged for'Wednesday; 13th June at 2.30 p.m. s