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I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I TELLEX ~'IONITORS LTD !~A TIONAL OFFICE • ~ ~I 7 f ~90 80 ~8 The Broadcast Reporting Service Transc.npt Froth. LONDON OFFICe'- 0171 490 8018 F,\O: BR.I.~,' O'CONNELL AT' BRITISH-AMERICAN TOBACCO LTD PROG: CHRIS V,:HITEHEAD TIME: 09:00 DA2 E: 09/03i98 STN: LBC N E~,VST,LLK ACCT: 1500 D UFLA'I'ION: 00:09:40 JOB' A98-030821 OKDER: RUSH BY FAX d~ PASSI-VE SMOKING We're talking about passive, smoking; ~ere arc ctaims, ridictttous, stupid claims that bit of p~sive smoking could ac~ally be good tbr you. Just a couple of days to go of co~sc ~ril Nadona[ No SmoMng Day; I w~nder if that's a coiacideace with t~s lc~ed repo~ the World Heal~ Organisafion. I'm joinvd on the ~ now by Keith G~e~on l~om British 2Mnefic~ Tobacco, BAT, who've actually brought t~s repo~ to o~ kn,wledgc. Kcir~ good mo~g to you. ..KEITH GRETTON Goud mormng. You.'ve bccll accused 0f deliberately m.isimrcpredng this report; what do you say to Well. I don't know who's accusing us of that. Co,V____= Gordon McVie, director general of the Cancer R.esearch Campmgn amongst others. COPYRIGHT: Tcll~t dO~= not oWr~ any coDynght In a~y aud~ or visual matenW ~d~ to the ~mnt. Re~ a~ audJo.visuw matonal are sup~t¢~ ~y T~x ~ ~vato u~ ~ the client ~ shall Dot #e ~u~d ~ ~.b~ad~t in ~ or ~hn~ the f~ c~ent of ~ ~p~g~t ho/~£ or t~ b~a~lb~ aulhor~ flint na~ng been oOfal~ by the eliot. not ~ to,~i~/# f~ o~ammg ~y su~ ~enL Audio (Jr VKIeO ca=~ette$ of thts Item are avad-~ble for 28 aay., farm bn:mdcaat date. Job Number : A98-030821 O 01 0 0

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I i I I I i TF_.L, LEN. N[ON-Iq£ORS LTD - - he Broadcast Reporting Welt [ don't know exactly ,,,,'ha[ ke has sadd, but Lh.is new study is from the World Hcalr.h ©rgamsation and it shows dtat if" there is any risk el" lung cancer from passive smoking, or cnviromncntal ~obacco smokers as v,e prefer to call iL :tt all, then that risk is absolutely m~nu~e, Now that is... (Interrupting) W'hat do you call n~nutc? Well this study doesn't achieve, a.s these ~tudies should to be valid, statistical s~gmf'icance: and a ~mdy r.ha~ doesn't achLicve that caanot confirm whether or not you have a r~sk here or whemer there's no risk at all. What does statistical sigrdficm~ce mcan? pcoplc, or what? Does that mcax~ {~nly k.ills a few hundred No, these statisticN studies, they don't taXe p/ace in a laboratory, they take place by tuoking at and cmnparing the incidence of disuses across populauons. Now because they're aut raking place m a tcgt tube you have to allow I'or ~c t~ct that the sample you use might not represent the whole population. Now the test of statistical validity isn't confined to smoking studies, it's a feature of any statistical study of" this type. Now if the study doea'n't achieve a stati.,,t~cal validity, then you can't take its conclusions aad say tlmt they indicate that a.ny person or group Ofl:X:ople is more likely to get a disease than any other. And this study ha.,~ shown that exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, or pa,~sive smoking, hasn't shown that this incrcm~es the likelihood of non smokers getting lung cancer. C.W. It's interesting, isn't it, that the World Health Organisation lmsn't actually published, this report and you've choosen to leak it on their behalf? Well we haven't leaked it, it's in the annual report of the In~cmal, ional Agency &~r Research on Cancer, which is part of the World Health Organisation. It hasn't been leaked, it COPYRIGHT: Tel/ex does not own any c~[3yrtffht ~tl any ~ ~ wsual mate##l ~ to ~e ~t. Reds a,~e ~udi~v~sual matenal am supplied by [el~ for #;~ate use o[ the ~'~e~}t a~ ~nall ~ ~ m~u~d or ~#c~ in ~ or ~ a whole wRl~ut the ~ol ~sont af the ~y~t ho~er ~ U~e bma~tl~ a(~on~ h~t ~av~g D~n o~tatn~ by t~e cl~nt. Tellex ~atl not ~ response#to f~ obt~.~mg any su~ c~enL Job Number : A98-030821 0 0

! I I I I I I I i I I I I I I I I I | TELLEX NIONITORS LID - The Broadcast Reporting Service ,VA TtO#Zz~L O/=~'tCE * 017f 490 8018 This Tr'a~mTt~Dt From: ION~ON O~=FICE . 017I 490 801~ has been published; and we have read, as we do, all of the World Health Organisations' reports and on page 76 of what is a 200 page document there is an accotant of this study, which we under, tread ha.£ been going on tbr .~t~mc ten years. And of ct)~so we've been rooking forward t0 lt~ concIttsionS; ~td now we have ~cm, we're delighted ~ ~ey confi~ what we've been saying, and ~ther scientists have been saying for many yc~s, J~at w~lc it maybe mmoying to be m room with a smoker, there isn't subsmntiM evidence that it is a health risk. I'm sure yuu and your company are delighted with dus ~cport; won't do your profits an?' harm at all, will it? Well we're delighted ,and we ~hin.k that smokers and non smokers .should be dcliglatcd bCCO, LISe.., (Interrupting) rubbish. Well f'trt a non smoker and i'm horrified by it; and I think it's a load of Wet1 I don't sue why, the World IIealth Organisation is a very. reputable body. C, W.___~. I don't believe them. sot'W, it's just common sense. 1 mean t do nnt believe that passive smoking isn't harmful. I'm Well, I. don't ttdnk it is co=unor~ sense. II'... We've no quarrel with the idea that em, irom, nental tobacco .smoke, passive ~moking, i.~ annoying, but you have to m'a.ke a distraction between what is annoying and ~vhat is a hearth risk. Now we're d~c lirst to admit tl-mt pa.~sive smoke in the air can be ext.rcmely annoying, not perhaps as annoying as some people lead us to believe .... C.Wo ('Interrupting) Keith, stay with us mjust a moment to talk fua~cr about this report. COPYRIGHT~ Tel~O# Ck~l not oV~) at~y ~O~gat in any au~ ~ visual matu~i~ #~i~ rO t#e ~ienL He~ a~ audiPw~u~ material am sup#Ileal by Tellox f~ ~vote u~ of ~e ~ent and ~afl n~ ~ reproduced or m-bm~aM in ~a~ or a~ a whole wl~OUt the ~al cot~$ot~l u[ the ~pytlgllt h~t ~ t~e ~ca~ng a~honly fi~t Ra~ng b~n oDtai~ed By the ~iont ~etl~ s~afl n~t b~ ~ble ~ o~tatnmg any s~ ~n~nt. Job Number : Agg-030821

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I ! TELLEX .%TONITORS LTD - The Broadcast Reporting Service NA TtOALAL OFFICE, 0171 400 8018 Th~,s T~t~JTpr Ft'om LONDON OFFICE. 0171 490 8018 - Break fc~r adverts - We're talking in this pazt of the programme thts morning about p~sive smoking. Keith Gretton from the British American l'obacco company on the line with me. Kt:ith, you're sa2,ing.., you're conccding that passive smaking maybe aumoying, but it's not h,m'n~.d. I'hat's right. M~d we've done some research in this area, some opinion reseau'ck in the [;K because we want to t'md out how annoying it is. Now although we concede of course that it is ,.'m.noying, and it seems to be annoying to you Chris, particularly; but we have found is that gmoking in a pub for example was ranked 15tla out i6 everyday amaoyances by a representative group of the I J'K population, smoldng and non smoking. So wahl were the other 14, then? Well. the other 14 were: things like jultk mail, bad language spoken in public, traffic pollution, drunXcn behav~our, these sorts of" things. Common annoyances, which all rank above smoking in a pub as an ,'m.tmyance, and, for that matter, smoking in a restaurant. t bet ~fyou ~poke to Roy Castle's widow, she'd ~ that passive smoking wa~ a little more tha.ta amnoying. Well, I mean. that of'course is a tragic case, that was... It's not the only one, is it? mat~rt~ 8~ ~u~phed by rello~ for pnvate u3e of tho client and Shell n~ be ~d or ~8d~st in ~ ot ~ 8 wnol~ riot bo ~$~DIR ~t ~ta/mng any su~ consenL Job Number: A98,030821 0 ~0 0

! I I I i I I I ! I I I I I I I I I I TELLE'K ~[ONITORS LTD - The Sroad~ast Reporting Service Well, the science would nut support the firm conclusion that anybody has had lung cancer as a result of their exposure to enviromncnml tobacco smoke, and it's as simpie as that. I memo, it can be a very emotive bubjcct ~f course. ~ut i1" you look at tl~e science, at does ao~ establish that env~romnental tobacco sm~ke or passive smokh~g is a cause of Nsease m nun- smokcr~, C,W,: Let's bring some ~Nlers in on ti~s. Keith, stay with us ~n ~e line. John's in Illbrd.., ~ould like a ~ord on this ~ well. John, good mort~g to you. Good morning, Chris. What do you m'~e of all thls? JOHN: ' Chris, I'm not sure where you're coming from. As a smoker myself, i think it's a dirty filthy habit. That said, Chris, in the 1940s and the 50s, our houses were ~ull of smoke, not just from people who smoked, but also from our coal Lires which bellowed, out rote our lounges. Wc then went to work, ,'rod our wnrkplace was full of smoke. If'we were old enough, we went. ~o our pub~ and club~, that was also full of'smoke. C.W.: And of course it was making us ill. JOHN:, And yet people are living longer. C.W.~ And it ",v,'u making us fll in those days, wasn't it'? JOHN.;, Well, no, no. Because that has improved. The ma.iority of people that died in those days, ahhough many died from lung cancer... I'm not a scientist, but many people die from matenat e~ ~upohod Dy Tellex ~ wWate u~ ~ the chent a~ sha# not Oe wit#out lh~ ~ ~tlt of Ihe co~gat #~der or ~ bro~osti~ e~hor~ fit~t aa~ng been obtained Dy the c#en& Tellex #~all AUdiO ~ V~ ~$,~ff~ of th~$ item ~ a~/lab~ ~ 28 day~ ~m ~adCa~ Job Number : &98-030821

! I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I TF_,LLF_.X NION[TORS LTD - The Broadcast Reporting Service NA 7"tO,*VAL OFt:tC.E - 0171 '=90 801a Th#s rta,l.~'cnpt Fro,n: LONDON OF,cICE. 0171 490 8018 cancer of~c rectum lind other things, and not from... I mean, this is very much hyped up, this passive stnokmg, i mean, I don't like pcrl~u.me on women so f move away from that. C.%V. : l.)oesn't kill you though, does it'? Nurmally. JOHN: Well, 1 don't know, hut there are many ~thcr things in our envirorzment that does kill us and I think to get hyped tip on smoking... I do think it's a dirty filthy habit and I wouldn't enct~urage anybody to smoke because it is dirty and it i~ smelly. C.W,: I mean, I... 1 have to say that I am anti-smoking but J. respect the right of anybody to do it. but I object to penplc then telling me that pmssivc smoking actually isn't harm£ul m~d could even be good tbr you. [ just think that's stul~id. 30H7~': No. No, Chris. I'm not saying.., it'~ like everything in life. We ec;uld go anywhere, the air that we breathe. If we take... [ mean, [ don't want to go onto other subjects, but it's... evcr3'thmg that's chemical based is dangerous. Whether it's BSE, which I believe is chemical- based and mm~y mher things in uur lives r.l~t we take. All our food is chemically based and I think, it's dangerou.m But to keep bringing and hitting out smoking... I Chink it's disgusting, I think it's all hyped up. You think it'~.., you thil~k it's gnod for u~ and you think there's no problem at all. .;OI'IN: We/l, you tell me, Chris, on this Earth. how we live and what we eat, what's good for as? Is alcohol good lbr us? Okay, Jotm, thanks lbr your cMl. Keith Orctton there from BAT. got an ally there, althuugh even John ~ys it's a disgusting and dirty h~it. Sounds like you've COPYRIGHT, T~;ex d~ nnt nwn any c~pyn~nt in ~y a~ ~ visual mate~=l ~v~ to ll~ ~t Re~ a~ au~i~wsu~ malarial e~ suD~l~ by Teilex tot ~va~ ~e ~ the ~i~t and ~all not be mp~u~d ~ ri~ma~ in ~rt ~ as a whole ;wt~out thO f~=l ~onl of th, cop~ln /tol~er or t~ O~a~tm~ au~ first havi~ b~ ~tai~ by the cl~nL Tellex shall Job Number : A98-03082l

i I I I TELLEX N[ONITOILS LTD - The s,oa cast Re o i g Sorvice NA TI~AI~d. OgFIC~ • 017"1 4"£0 80"I8 This Tt'~n$~n~t Ft~m: LONDON OFFIC~ . 0171 4~0 8018 Well, certainly people have strong view~ on r_he ~ubjcct of smoking, but when you're tal~ng about environmental tobacco smoke, ~u'rc talking about ~other ~ssue completely. And he menfiotxcd actu~ly some intercsung.., an interesting puint on fi~k~ in perspective. 1 mea~ lct'.s look at the dm~ger of other flamgs that have L~en pu~u~ quite s~e. I I I I C.W.____2 'I'enh, but two wrongs or even more than Iwo ~vrongs don't make a right, do they? No, but whet~ you 1oo~: at a stucty, similar to the studies that have been done on the issue of passive smoking which shows that, you know, you're four times more likely t~ get lung cancer il" you cat rice pudding than if you don'r~ then you have to... you have to urge caution when interpreting the results of these sorts of studies even when they do make allegations of a certain substance or lifestyle can.slang disease. I mean... I I Ye,~, but if you eat rice pudding, you have the choice, you make the dcciskm if you want to eat rice pudding or not. Passive smoking, you have no choice of at all. I I I I I I I I I K.G.: Well, I don't necessarily sign up to that. I think that in the UK today l~ople are working thi,~ issue out. They're finding proper practical ~olutioas to the issue of indoor smoking. You go into a resraur-aat them days, you go into a hotel, you're asked whether you would like to uso the smoking or non-smoking area. I think what we're finding is that in society, pet,ple are working out the indoor smoking issue. And one of the things we believe quite strongly, and it's borne out by our research, it's that people prefer to make their own pr,~ctical arrangemenr.,~ and they don't want the Govenm~cnt to get involved in barmLng smok.i.ng or introducing Government-based legislation. Well, as you know, '~e have a Government thin seems to enjoy harming all sorts of rJain~s, And [ wouldn't mid betting witla you that in five years from now, you won't have any choice about ~anoking or non-smoking in a restattrmat, it will be barmed in all public pieces, I'm sure. maten=l a~ su~ by Telex f~ ~nte us~ ~ ~ ~t ~nd ~alt ~ be m~du~ ~ m-~ in ~art or as a wdl~out thu [~IH~ ~eOt ~ t~O ~py~ht h~l~f Or ~o ~a~a~ng au#~o~ fi~t h~vJt~ b~n oDtaJned by ~e ~ienL Telex Job Number : A98-030821

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I TELLF_.X b[ONITOR$ LTD - Th~ Broaclcast Reporting Setwice NA I"t~NAL OF/~ICE . 017t 4gO 8018 Th~s Tlat)..~c~#l From,, LOIVDON OF~fC~ - 0171 490 8018 Well, I hop= that's not the c~e end certainly, if they b~e thcLr decision on zhc .~cicnce, it %~11 he ve~ djf~cult fbr ~enl to ins~tute ~at ao~ of b~. ~at we t~ is ~at [~s, ~ a soc~ issue.., it's not a heath isle, a~ording to ~e ~cicnce. As a soci~ issue, people should be allowed to make their o~ ~rangemenm. And if lhey w~t segregaNon, that'~ abso[utety fine, but it should relqecr, you know, how many ~mokers ~d how mm~y non-smokers u~ the pub or ~c restart or the hotel. ~C.W.~ ()kay, Kcah Grcrton from British-American Tobacco, thanks for talking to m~tt~t ~ ~u~l~d by Tell~ ~ ~te ~ of the ~nt ~ =h~ ~ be ~~ or r~~ m ~a~ ~ ~ ~ w~ole ~ut ~ ~t ~sont ~ ~ c~t hO~ ~ the ~cas~ auth~ first hav~ ~en ~tai~ by ~e ~ient. Tellex ~all ~t be m~b~ ~ ~atni~ ~y s~ ~nsant. Job Nm'aber : A98-030821