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DOCUMENT: 3 of 3' **Saturday Today** Mar 13, 1993 7':0'0-9:00 AM NBC Copyright c 1993, National Broadcasting Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.. Segment: Interview: Joe LaMacchia and Martha Fineman onl**secondhand smoke*'* Cost: $013.001 Nielsen: N/A. JACKIE NESPRAL, co-host: Now that Hillary Clinton has made the White House a smoke-free.zone,: there are many who:want to extend that to a lot of other places. Many parents now consider cigarette smoking around kids ai form of child, abuse, and some of them have started going to court to stop ex-wives or husbands from smoking in the same roomi as their kids. Joining us now is Joe LaMacchia of Parents Against **Secondhand'Smoke** and.Professor Martha Fineman, a professor at Columbia Law School. I Welcome and~thank you very much for being, with us. Now, Mr. LaMacchia,, what prompted you to start this organization, Parents Against **Secondhand Smoke**?' Mr. JOE LaMACCHIA: Well in the fall of 1990, my three-year-old boy was very congested,, and when I would have him on the weekends, I would notice by Sunday nigbt, when I, was rea~dy to take him home:, he was clearing up. As time went on, I started to realize that the cigarette smokimg,from his mother was congesting him. And I knew it... NESPRAL: How did youiknow that that was the cause? Mr. LaMACCHIA: Because it was pretty simple. When I picked him up, the odor was incredible. He told me one time on Thanksgiving,morning, -I hate mommy's smoke.' And!when I was watching 20/20 one time, I saw Dr. William Kahan on TV speaking about **secondhand smoke** with children, and I stairted to realize that this was--I knew sosnething was wrong with my son, but I knew now that I had to do somethingi. NESPRAL: So you started the organization?' Mr. LaMACCHIA: Right. I started the or--I went to court. I got a court order by mutual agreement, they ca11, with my ex-wife. Andithe Dr. Kahan told me, he said, 'you can't stop now, you've got to put together a little booklet or something to show people how you did it.' NESPRAL: And you got a good response?. Mr. LaMACCHIA: Oh, my phone's been ringingi, I ha~d a PO:box it, and it's been over a year now andiit's going good. N'ESPRAL: Now Professor Feinman, you don't agree with the court's intervention in custody cases?'

L Ms. MARTHA FINEMAN (Maurice T'. Moore Professor of Law)i: Well, I think that there are two sets of problems. One is how dolyou def'ine the scope of' this prohibitioniand with's going to be included and excluded? Are we going to:have vegetarians arguing they are better custodians because they don't serve their children red meat or they don't serve meat?' So that's one set of problems. Even with smokers, is it only the parent's smoke that we're concerned about or is it grandparents that smoke? What about friends" parents that smoke? Do parents have to monitor their--their childreni, their exposure to smoke? And I think there are another set of problems.also in add',ition to this definition, and that is how courts can implement this kind of policy.. And are courts--custody courts, family courts the appropriate place for this to be implemented? NESPRAL: The facts are, though:, last year the National Center for Health Statistics found that chilidreniliiving with cigarette smokers have nearly double the risk of being.in fair or poor health than those never exposed to **smoke, and there have been 3,80!0 lung cancer deaths a year from secondhand'smoke**. Some people would say that this is a form of childd abuse. Ms. FINEMAN: Well, I agree that the statistics are startling and we should be concerned and there should be.education about this. However, in the context of'custody cases, as this one was, what about uncontested custody cases, for example? Should the judge always ask if people are smokers, and if'they are, what if they"re.both smokers?' Should th~e state then take custody of the children?' What if the nonsmoking parent doesn't want custody? Should the judge force that person to have custody because it's child abuse?' And„ in fact, why limit it to divorce?' Why not intact families? If there is ai smoker or two smokers in an intact family, then shouldn't we start an abuse_proceeding? This is legal conduct in this country. It might be unfortunate, it might be harmful, but it is legal conduct, and to argue it is in and of'itsel!f the determining factor in abusive conducts seems to me to be probliematic.. NESPRAL: Mr. LaMacchia, a lot goes into being, a g~ood parent. Do you think that the fact aiparent smokes shouldibe a--should play a maij'or role in a custody case? Mr. LaMACCH'IA: Well, I think that when you to to thie courts and you listen to the way they word things, especially custody, it's supposed to be in the best interest of the childi, OK? Now, I've said before the parent doesn't have to stop smoking. All we are looking for is that they stop smoking,around'.the child. And when--C. Everett Koop recently called it a form of child abuse and there's so much information. And we don't,, you know, there's--there's plenty of'informationiand it's time to move: forward now I think.

NESPRAL: I"d like to take the kid's position. I mean, a kidigoes through a lot when their parents get divorced. Isn't this just adding,anothierr pressure to the child? Mr. LaMACCHIA: Adding more pressure to the child'? I see it as another pressure to:the child when they"re giagging,and coughing and on Ventolin and Brethaiire~ spray and earaches,andi pneumonia,bronchitis,, and the l ist goes on and on. NESPRALc Professor, you are against the court's intervention im these types of cases. What answers dl&you have for concerned'parents who are worried about their kids' health?' Ms. FINEMiAR: Well, I think that you--if you don''t have custody and you're dealing with a custodiall parent wh~o:smokes,, certainly you want to try and talk to them, try and do this. I believe that most parents act in their children's interest. I think that that's true, and that you try to work with somebody who's doing this. But the notionithat family laww courts are goingi to supervise this conduct seems to me to be very problematic. And I agree with you, the most harmful thing for children is whenitheir parents continue to fight after a divorce or aroundithe divorce. NESPRAL: Professor, I!'m afraide we've run out of time. Thank you very much for being with us this morning. Mr. LaMacchia, thank you. And we'll have more after these messages. But first, this is TODAY on NBC. INDEX: Smoking Children Parents Lawsuits