Tobacco Documents Online

Services of Mead Data Central, Inc. PAGE 48 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 MR. LEHRER: A year ago. If this ha6been a Justice Department case, it wouldn't have -- MR. KORTEN: Never would have gone to Indictment in the first place. You'd have found out before that point that you had had classified material you had to rely on but could not use. There would not have been a charge brought in the first place. MR. LEHRER: Mr. Nields, what do you think of Mr. Korten's point that -- stop it right now, what's the point In going on? MR. NIELDS: Well, first of all, I guess as you can tell from what I've already said, I think, the other charges were the more properly brought. I ha d questions from the beginning about the conspiracy count and the diversion count. I think the others are proper criminal charges and I believe it is i'mportant that they go to trial. I don't know how they're going to come out but I think it's important -- MR. LEHRER: Why is tt important that they go to trial? MR. NIELDS: Because I believe that the most important issue arising out of the Iran-Contra affair is whether the rule of law-will apply to activities conducted by our government In secret, and I underscore i'n secret. It is very difficult to bring the rule of law to bear on intelligence activities, secret activities, because they're secret, and If when we find out that secret activities have been conducted In a criminal way and charges are brought and it then turns out that we can't bring those charges to trial because they were d one in the Intelligence world and, therefore, they are classilfie6secrets which will prevent the trial, we have really told the entire intelligence community that they're immune from the law and I think that would be a very serious and unfortunate thing. MR. LEHRER: Mr. Korten. MR. KORTEN: I don't want to, say that's silly but I think it's disingenuous, because the charges that are being brought here are not, as John, himself, no ted a minute ago, charging Ollie North with having illegally diverted funds or havi'ng done something in that realm that was wrong. There all things that revolve around whether.or not he gave Congress information that it was asking for. Was Congress asking for that information properly? Were they exceeding their bounds? What you get right down to after you analyze most of these counts is a policy dispute between the legislature and the executive. And the Congress wanted a lot of information from the executive, not all of which,it was entitled to, perhaps very little of which it was entitled to. They wanted to try to in,fluence the executive branch foreign policy decision making in a way that the Congress is not entitled to do. They're trying to expand their power in the realm of foreign policy and they're tying to criminalize the dispute with the White House. That's what these counts are all about. They're not about'Ollie North. They're about a policy dispute between the Congress and the executive. MR. LEHRER: They"re not about what Mr. Nields just said they were about. MR. KORTEN: Not on a larger sphere, not on a larger sphere. ~' LEX!Sf5EXiS'LEXES E= ,K IS 0

Services of Mead Data Central, Ina PAGE . 49 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. A11 Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 MR. LEHRER: Criminal acts done in secrecy because of their intelligence. MR. KORTEN: Take a view of this. For example, one of the charges or perhaps several of the charges, I guess, involved whether or not he misled or lied to Ed Meese during that weeken6before all of this was announced to the White House news conference. Did he make false statements within the meaning of the Title 5 U.S. Code? The fact of the matter Is that was an informal inqui'ry. The Presid ent asked Ed Meese to ask some questions, try to get to the bottom of it, but it was not an official criminal investigation. To charge someone with criminal violations for which one could suffer jail and heavy fines when, in fact, all you were talking about here was an informal inqui'ry, seems to me to be bizarre. Most of the rest of the counts don't make an awful lot more sense to me. MR. LEHRER: Mr. Nields. MR. NIELDS: Well, I guess as I've already said several times It is not unusual for the Department of Justice to bring criminal charges against people who obstruct official proceedings, shred documents, falsify records, lie to Congress, lie to the Justice Department, and I wish -- MR. LEHRER: You mean, the Attorney General -- MR. NIELDS: Lie to the Attorney General, and I wish that I could be guaranteed that when I have a client who is under investigation for similar things that I could go to the Justice Department and'say, well, all they did was lie to you or somebody else, and consequently, they shouldn't be indicted. MR. LEHRER: We're not going to resolve that one but let's take up a point that Lyle made and it's been made by others, that as a result of the decision, and assuming the judge -- is there any question, by the way, that the judge will go along with Walsh on this? MR. DENNISTON: I don't think there's any question about it. He has a hearing on Monday at which he's going to examine the question and under the federal rules, he must agree to do it before the matter is dropped, but the judge, himself, has said over and over again for the last nine, nine and a half months, that he had serious problems going~ahead with these counts anyway even before W'aTsh made the point. ~' O MR. LEHRER: So let's assume that he does. Do you believe, Mr. Nields, or do N you agree with Lyle, that as a result of this, the full story of Iran-Contra ~ will now not be told? ~ MR. NIELDS: No. I think it was -- first of all I guess I should say, and I've (~ got a little bit of a bias here since I was involved with the Congressional ~ investigation, but I should say that we saw all of the documents in their ~ unclassified formy and there were none that had any bearing at all on the N President's responsibility for the diversion or frankly for any of the other episodes in the Iran-Contra affair which were concealed by reason of their being classified, and the second thing I guess I would say is that I think it would have been very unlikely that either North or the President, Reagan, should he have testified would have said anything different about the President's Congress than North said to the Congress or that Reayan had said to the public. So while I can't absolutely rule out that some additional piece of information would have come out or will come out in the context of the criminal case, I believe it LEXISkEXi3 '' @ E X6 S' ~' Em l ~ E 37

Services of Mead Data Central, Inc. PAGE 50 tc3 1989 EBC & GWBTA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 was very unlikely an6I doubt we lost anything in that regard. MR. LEHRER: Do you agree with that, Mr. Korten? MR. KORTEN: Oh, sure. After the eight or nine months that the Congress spent holding countless hours of hearings and producing thousands of pages of transcripts and many many more interviews that were conducted in private with people who had never testified, we have a very full complete.account insofar as it can be known as to what happened. MR. DENNISTON: There is one dimension into which the Congressional effort and the Tower Commission effort did not go and that's the role of George Bush. George Bush has never been subjected to a rigorous accounting to what role, if any, he had In that. Now I'm not suggesting that I know he had one, but he certainly was not asked to answer in the same way that President Reagan was asked to answer, and that Is something that might well have come out at the trial or at least there was a prospect that that might have come out at the trial and that prospect is now gone. MR. LEHRER: But it did not come out in the Congressional hearings at all. Is there some explanation for that? MR. NIELDS: Well, the only thing that I would say is it is true that although we all got through the press and through the Tower report some idea of what President Reagan had to say about his own knowledge and Involvement, we didn't learn that much from George Bush. But in terms of evidence from other sources about future President Bush's i'nvolvement, we explored those thoroughly, there wasn't very much on it frankly, and we concealed nothing that we learned. MR. LEHRER: Mr. Korten, anything to add to that? MR. KORTEN: I have great affection for Lyle. We've known each other for years and dealt with each other at the Department, but I''m always amused by the journalist's propensity to squeeze the last ounce of blood that can be had ou t of a story. I don't think anything involving George Bush would add anything significant to the story. Based on what I know of conversations that Ed Meese had with George Bush at the time, as well as all of the others, I don"t think there was_any significant role on his part. MR. DENNISTON: Jim, I think there's another point here that bears repeating. I think it comes a little bit off of what Pat was saying earlier. These are difficult issues to try to raise and resolve in the context of a criminal case. This Is a case that is regulated by the constitution itself and it's regulated by this bizarre 1980 law, the Classified Information Procedures Act, and to try to put on this trial and this criminal process, the burden of political revelation is asking it to carry a lot more baggage than it can, but it's all we've got left now. There are not going to be any other inquiries. Clumsy and inartful as this process might have been, it was worth trying, I think, from, at least from a news perspective, whether or not from a governmental perspective; that's arguable, I suppose. MR. LEHRER: You've been close to the procedures up till now. What is your -- do you think that the trial of Oliver North will, in fact, proceed on these final 12 counts? L L EX IS " s~EXeS * LEXIG 0 ~.~cz~ISO

Services of Mead Data Central„ Inc: PAGE 51 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1969' MR. DENNISTON: My present inclination is to think that it will not because I think that the classified documents issue is going to continue to plague this proceeding throughout and I think at some point, my own conjecture, purely off the wall, is that Lawrence Walsh is going to decide that he can't go forward with anything of real consequence in thts case and the case I think ultimately will be aborted. But we'll know that in January or maybe in February. MR. KORTEN: The same thing is what all of this says about the independent counsel law. What it say is after two years and $12 million -- by the way -- do you know what the average U.S. Attorney's Office spends in a year, 5 million, and they bring hundreds and thousands of cases. He's spent $12 million and he's come up with almost nothing. MR. LEHRER: That's another whole thing and I'm sure we will have you and others back to talk about i't depending on what the results are. Gentlemen, thank you all three for being here. FOCUS - KIDS AND SMOKING MR. MAC NEIL: Next tonight the question of why young people, despite all warnings and pleadings, still take up smoking. We have a report from Seattle by Lee Hochberg of public station KCTS Seattle. LEE HOCHBERG: Teenagers today have lived their entire lives in a world wit h warning labels on cigarettes. They've never seen a tobacco ad on television. Yet, almost 20 percent of teenagers smoke every day. Teen smoking rates dropped a decade ago, but today, teens are the only segment of American society where smoking isn't on the decline. TEEN: I don't know why I smoke. A lot of people ask me that, but mainly I guess it's because my dad smokes, there are cigarettes there. You know, a lot of my friends smoked. All my friends smoke now.. MR. HOCHBERG: Poor kids are twice as likely to smoke as their middle class teens. More than 80 percent of teens who smoke daily have below a C average in school. They are more likely to drop out, less likely to go to college. They are more likely to regularly use alcohol, marijuana, or other illegal substances. They know about lung cancer and emphysema and early death from smoki'ng, but many teen~smokers have an outlook on life that keeps the educational message from making a difference. TEEN: Today you're going to die from smoking or nuclear war or whatever;; you're still going to die. TEEN: No, I don't think about it, because I know if it happens, it happens, there's nothing I can do to stop it besides quit sMoking and you're going to die sooner or later, so -- (laughing). MR. HOCHBERG: Like their parents before them, most kids start smoking because they think It's cool, girown up, or just because their parents do it. Whatever the reason, smoking Is not just a passing phase of rebellious youth. Many make a decision at the age of twelve or fourteen that will stay with them until they die. LEXISo~ ,~ c~ 1Z- ' LEXIS " Ki"Ez [Z'

Services of Mead Data C•entral, Ina PAGE 52 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1:989 ROBERT ROSNER, Smokinp Policy Institute: D think that i'n our society we have a slight problem, that what we do Is We look at smoking and we say it's a personal choice issue and we forget that for.millions and millions of people, once they start smokingy the personal choice goes out the window; they are hooked to an addictive drug. YOUNG CHILD: I know I'm too young to smoke. It's just that I have a habit and I can't quit It. MR. HOCHBERG: Government studies find that 53 percent of the nation's high school seniors who smoke half a pack of a day have tried to quit but couldn't. Ten years from now, 3/4 of them will still be smoking every day. Nicotine is considered one of the most addictive drugs young people encounter. ROBERT ROSNER: Consistently, a majority of both alcohol users and drug users say that they had a much.tougher time kicking nicotine than they did kicking alcohol and heroin. MR. HOCHBERG: That addiction canibe costly or profitable, depending on your perspective. The American Lung Association estimates kids under the age of 17 buy $3 billion worth of tobacco products each year. In the State of Washington, selling cigarettes to minors is a gross misdemeanor, punishable by up to a yea r in jail, but the law has never been enforced. MR. HOCHBERG: Where do you get your cigarettes? TEEN: 7-Eleven's, just little mini stores, just little handy stores, you know, they'll sell them to anyone. TEEN: It's easy to get in there. You know, they just kind of go, are you 18, yeah, okay, you know. They don't really, they don°t card you. MR. HOCHBERG: So where do you get your cigarette5? TEEN: 7-Eleven. MR. HOCHBERG: Is that -- TEEN: Down the street. It's 'cause when I'm at school, it's easier to go down there and get 'em. I just walk in and ask for a Salem Lights and they say okay N and I give 'em the money. N MR. HOCHBERG: 7-Eleven, the natfon's largest chain of convenience stores, jy says it depends on tobacco customers for more than 1/3 of its business, but the ~ company says tobacco sales to minors are insignificant. ~ DAVID HUEY, 7-Eleven Merchandise Manager: I would say is that's occurring, ,A it's a very small number of stores and a very small number of people that are ,A obtaining cigarettes in that manner. What you're saying is it happens, I'm su re (jt it does, but in terms of its significance, I wouldn't be concerned about it. MR. HOCHBERG: Ron Sims is concerned. He and other members of the FSing County Council recently passed one of the nation's toughest ordinances aimed at stopping tobacco sales to minors. It will require ci garette retailers to obtain a county license to sell tobacco products. Then it will use that license to ® ~f~I~13m EXES ® . ~E~®Liilit/Iiii ~~ vl  ~r~i1 ~

Services of, fW'ead Data Central, Ina PAGE 53 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 punish people selling cigarettes to minors. RON SIMS, King,County Council: The first violation you get a warning lette r and a $100 fine. The second violation you are fined $500 and your license to sell tobacco products for three to six months. On the third violation the fine is $1000 and your license to sell tobacco products is revoked. We hit people where it hits them,hardest which is in their pocket book. Today when we had convenience store operators saying that 25 to 33 percent of their sales are tobacco products and that if they're suspended for any period of time it can put them out of business, that was our intent, to get people to understand that nicotine is highly addictive and we do not want it sold to young people under the age of 18. MR. HOCHBERG: The ordinance will also eliminate self-serve vending machines in areas accessible to minors. It goes into effect i'n February. It's impossible to say how effective the legislation will be. One problem is that many kids have a source for tobacco that the law can't reach. TEEN: When I don't have any money, I get cigarettes from, my dad. He gives me cigarettes. TEEN:' My parents know I smoke, so normally my dad will bring me a pack home or something during the day. TEEN: My mom buys them for me too, so I could always go have her buy 'em for me, so it's not like it would stop me because I couldn't buy 'em, because I cann always find somebody to buy 'em for me. MR. HOCHBERG: Not only do many parents tolerate smoking. So do many schools on the belief that banning smoking would'just drive students away from school. BILL WILEY, Principal, Everett Alternative H.S.: The board and the district felt that it was in the best interest of the district and of society in general to have, if you will, educated nicotine addicts rather than uneducated nicotine addicts. MR. HOCHBERG: But the trend'is the other way. School districts in several ~e.attle suburbs recently have banned smoking on school grounds. Most other school districts are expected to follow suit In the next few years, yet, no one expects the problem,to be solved so easily. JANE ANSLEY, Counselor, Auburn Schools: We've told them that they shouldn't smoke dope. We've told them they shouldn't drink beer. We've told them they shouldn't drive without their seat belts on, and they know all about It, but they still do because that's what youth does. ROBERT ROSNER, Smoking Policy Institute: Well, Surgeon General Koop has a very interestin4 way of discussing the issue of kids and smoking He says when ou look at the tobacco industry, they have a problem. Every year they kill 350.000 of their best customers. They have to accrue. MR. HOCHBERG: Many educators believe that tobacco advertising entices kids to try out smoking. Whether it's the rugged independence.of the Marlboro man, the sexy playfulness of Salems, or the promise to be coal, the images portrayed by tobacco companies make a powerful impact on kids. ~~ie~IvS®1 vfiariEr1ldd GLEE IS®ME~:.I ~g®

Services of Mead Data Central, Ina. PAGE 54 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 ROBERT ROSNER: See the problem is is that education is boring and Madison Avenue is smart and what we've been doin is we've been oin u with a slin shot against Madison Avenue and think we have to fight fire with fire (PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT AGAINST SMOK'ING) DR. ROBERT JAFFE: (Addressing Young Children in Classroom) My name is Bob J!affe, and 1'm a family doctor here in Seattle, and the reason why I came here is to talk about cigarettes and smoking. ~ MR. HOCHBERG: An organization of Washington physicians, Doctors Ought to Ca re or DOC, is trying to counter the effects of tobacco ads with TV public service announcements and school programs. They aimed at preventing young kids from ever starting to smoke. DR. ROBERT JAFFE: What do those ads say about cigarettes? LITTLE BOY IN CLASSROOM: They say smoke. They'll say we're the best cigare tte you've ever tried. DR. ROBERT JAFFE: So what do you think it'll do to? What does the ad say it's going to do to you? LITTLE BOY IN CLASSROOM: It says it''s going to make your life a better life. DR. ROBERT JAFFE: Uh huh. Is she having a good time or bad time? KIDS IN CLASSROOM: Good time. DR. ROBERT JAFFE: So you want to be like her? MIXED RESPONSE BY KIDS IN CLASSROOM: DR. ROBERT JAFFE, President, Washington DOC: What I'm trying to do now is to get down to the kindergarten,to sixth grade level and convince kids that they don't need to start, that it's a stupid idea, that they're being coopted and duped by large corporations who want to profit off of their illnesses and their eventual death and work out their rebelliousness and anger against those companiesy-against those advertisements, and make the act of not smoking seemm like a strong courageous nonconformist stand for them to take. TEACHER IN CLASSROOM: Rule No. 1 says no smoking. That means that when you decide you're going to be in this group you are going to quit cold turkey. MR. HOCHBERG: For kids who have started smoking, and want to quit, a few schools offer help like this Stop Smoking class at a suburban Seattle high school. These students have gond reasons for wanting to stop. STUDENT: Most of the people in my family the reason flf death, the main cause of death is lung cancer, and just waking up in the morning and coughin' up bl ood clots and stuff, it's not that fun. STUDENT: I'm going to quit smoking because I used to be a distance runner and I want to start runnin' again and when I smoke, it just makes it hard, so I'm just gonna quit it altogether and get my act back in shape. L EXL13 ®kEX1S*LEZ1Z*R5 EDr ~ ~I~ •

Services of Mead Data Centrai;, Inc. PAGE 55 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, Jenuary 6, 1989 STUDENT: fiy grandmas, all of 'em die6of lung cancer, and my grandpas, and my mom is not even livin', she's not quite dyin', but she's got lung cancer:.Tha t's one reason I want to quit. MR. HOCHBERG: Even for young smoker, quitting doesn't come easily. Of the 24 students who started this class, none has been able to completely kick the habit. MR. LEHRER: We close tonight with a look back at Emperor Hirohito of Japan. He died this evening after a four month illness. He was 87 years old. He had reigned for 62 years, and during that time, Japan had moved from a military to an economic power. Charlayne Hunter-Gault prepared this report on the passing of the head of the oldest i'mperial family in the world. M5. HUNTER-GAULT: When Hirohito inherited the throne in 1926, the emperor was considered literally descended from the gods. During his life, that concept changed to a much more human one, a change that can be seen in the way he died, fighting till the end, blood;transfusi'on after blood transfusion, using advanced medical technology. This would have been unthinkable when Hirohito was growing up. In those days, neither the Emperor or his children were suppose6to be given any medicine, because ft was considered a violation of their sacred bodies. It was at the urging of his wife that Hirohito, himself, changed that practice, allowing his daughter to be given pain killers for a terminal i'llness. Much of the emperor's job was ceremonial, like reviewing the troops. But he did have ultimate power, but it"s not clear how often he exercised that power. He was often presented with fait de complits by his generals who led Japan into war with China and other neighbors in the 19305. It's not even clear whether H3rohito approved of the war against the United States, but one decision was clearly his, to_ surrender after the U.S. dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima. He prevailed over some military leaders who wantedito fight until the end. When he announced Japan's surrender on national radio on August 15, 1945, it was the first time the Japanese public had ever heard'his voice. The people were not supposed to look at or hear him because of his divine status. Japan surrendered to Gen. Douglas McArthur, who directed the U.S. military occupation. DOUGLAS MC ARTHUR: To sign the instrument of surrender at the places indicated. .• MS. HUNTER-GAULT: McArthur draft a new constitution, but rejected suggestions to depose the Emperor. Still the constitution took away the emperor's power and N gave it to Japan's parliament. The emperor not only acquiesced, but O enthusiastically supported the new constitution, urging the Japanese people to N do the same. SPOKESMAN: (Speaking through Interpreter) We shall join with the people in ~ getting our fullest efforts to carry out the terms of this constitution CJ1 correctly. ,A MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Hirohito now had a purely ceremonial role, more closely ~ resembling the Queen of England"s. Japan's history books would no longer call ~ the emperor a god. Demystified, Hirohito became more of a public figure, appearing! in front of huge crowds, visiting coal mines and factories throughout the country, even traveling abroad. He went to England in 1973, where he was greeted by the queen, despite some protests from World War II veterans and prison camp survivors. It was the first time any Japanese emperor had ever LErya-  V ® ~~ ~ ® ~ ~ E~131E) '~: ~~~Lws~ fS,® I _

Services of Mead Data Central, Inc. PAGE 56 (c) 1989 EBC & GWETA. All Rights Reserved, January 6, 1989 left his country. By this time, Japan was a major economic and growing diplomatic force and would become a key participant in global economic sumMfts. Its automobiles and electronic products were selling better and!better outside the country. Its military force was limited by the constitution, but under American pressure, the country has gradually i'ncreased its defense program. In 1975, Hirohito came to the United States. In addition to his visit to the White House, he was interviewed on network television-about his role in World War IP. (TELEVISION INTERVIEW) MS. HUNTER-GAULT: His last public appearance was in August, attending a ceremony for Japanese soldiers killed during World War II. With Hirohito's death, his son, Crown Prince Akahito, i'nherits the throne and will go through many ancient coronation rituals. But he will come to a thrown of a nation much more symbolized by its consumer goods and by a dynamic exporting economy than by the ancient Imperial grandeur or military power of his father's time. RECAP MR. MAC NEIL: And again the other main potnts in the news this Friday, the first indictments and guilty pleas were made today in the Pentagon procuremen t case. The charges range from conspiracy and bribery to theft and racketeering. The nation's unemployment rate dropped to 5.3 percent last month, the lowest level since May of 1974, and the Soviet Union rejected the U.S. claim~of self- d'efense in the Libyan shootdown incident. Good night, Ji'm. MR. LEHRER: Good night, Robin. Have a nice weekend. We'll see you on Monday night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night. L' 0 c LEXIS E, " 1'~ExEZ 'LEXIS 'h,~El'66