Philip Morris
United States Senate Transcript of Proceedings Committee on Commerce Subcommittee for Consumers Hearing on S. 1454
Fields
- Author
- Baker, H.H., J.R.
- Banzhaf, J.F. III
- Cook, M.W.
- Cooper, J.S.
- Edwards, C.C.
- Furst, A.
- Hutt, P.B.
- Moss, F.E.
- Mouhtouris, C.J.
- Okun, R.
- Stevens
- Thurmond, S.
- Wilson, B.B.
- Wynder, E.L.
- Banzhaf, J.F. III
- Area
- LEGAL DEPT/CARLSTADT
- Type
- TRAN, TRANSCRIPT
- Site
- N28
- Master ID
- 2015045951/6246
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- Cook, M.W.
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- Einstein
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- Passy
- Perkins, C.D.
- Pitofsky, R.
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- Snyder, M.G.
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- Steinfeld, J.
- Stevens
- Stewart, W.H.
- Sunderman
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- Thurmond, S.
- Vandenberg
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- Whiteside, T.
- Wilson, B.B.
- Wynder, E.L.
- Xxdavid
- Holtzman, A.
- Auerbach
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- Ahf, American Health Foundation
- Antitrust Division
- Ash, Action on Smoking & Health
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COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE
SUBCOMw'1'=x FOjt CDDTSIAlBRS
Hssrinq on
S. 1454
MasA,iaqlap, 0. C.
Thussda, 10 t.bWuas!. 1972
DUPIICATTON OR COPYING OF THIS TRANSCRIPT
BY PXO?iOGRAPHIC, ELECTROSTATIC OR OTHER
FACS[1KILE MEANS IS PROHIBITED BY THE ORDER
FORM AGREEMENT.
MONICK - SULLIVAN
Official Reportera
415 S.cQnd Str..t, N.E.
Washinqlon,.D. C. 20002
TtNphmn:
(CoAe 202) 547-M
a
NATIONWIDE COVE1tAGt
CF.?5004
TAYLOE
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C 0NT D Il1T S'
~.m-':'-1.-""..,1
ST.._..'" OF: 343
PhC:D
Dr. Ernest L. Wynder,
President, American Health
Foundation, New York, New York
374
The Iionoravle John Sherman Cooper,
United States Senator from the
State of Kentucky
431
jj,~I Dr. ..rt;.hur I'urs t,
Director, Institutd of Chemical
Bioloay, Univcrsity of
San~rrancisco, California 444
The Honorable Strom Thurmond',
United States Senator from the
State of South Carolina
482
Bruce B. ~lilson,
Deputy Assistant Attorney General,
Antitrust Division, U. S. Depart^ient
of Justice 48?
Dr. F:onald Okun,
Director of Clinical,F'harmacology,
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center,
Los Angeles, California
506
Dr. Charles C. Edwards,
Corrti^nissioner, Food and Drug
Administration -
accompanied by:
Peter B. Iiutt
John F. Banzhaff III,
Executive Director, Action on
S>'tol:incr and IIealth,
Washington, D. C.
Charles J. tiouhtouris,
Secretary-Treasurer,
Little Cir,ar Council
534
'ed'erall Reporters, Inc.
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A,.. -Federal Repai!crs, lnc.
Hearing on
S. 1454
Thursday, 10 February 1972
United States Senate,
Committee on Commerce,
Subcommittee for Consumers,
Washington, D. C.
The subcommittee met at 9:30 a.m. in room 5110, New
Senate Office Building, the Honorable Frank E. Moss, chairman
of the subcommittee, presiding: ~ .
Present: Senators Frank E. Moss, Howard H. Baker, Jr.,
and Marlow W. Cook.
+ + +
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Senator .:oss. Tae tleari'ng will co+.;e to order.
Toe:r.v t. eCo. -.ittee will reconvene in its consideration
of leerislation ::?idc`.1 i have introaLced to ariend the P u:)lic
7Ica 1 4-511 C
:. Jrarctt-e @r..c;,~-. . to rec~,zi r e~ re the I'c,_1 .~~ra ~i
..~~~,. ,ir.c~ 1'.e~.. ~. ~~ ~ nr~..jc .
Cc :-~: -:iss ion to esta:,.lish levels of tar and: nicotinc
.
content of cigarettcs
i,ddlti.onall:', ;ic also %'.'1t:Yn SSc^-S :'Tl'ta us today
,:ho discuss t'_ie mar::etir.g of littlc cicars and the
anLilicwtion of the Fculz: ral. zarciousSus':s.tances,.rct to .
cic;arettcs.
I 47nuld like to cor:Lment Jrieily on Sor!le of the witnesses
::.":o i1ave tn's tii:lc^..d ~~ravlousl:'.
It seens to n;c :.:e have ;-,ad a lot of people quoting other
~xeoI)le out of context in~ this hearing and I arl distu'r:.)ed to
not2 that.
Certain: witnesses quote the Surgcon Geneial's report
.::1cn it it:T%T'.orts t.:^il* position and refute everything ~iA.`r c J~.n~
t'.:e report.
c~Jt.. ,;~,`e: of
Per)lUiJ l. 1~1l~ c- a:.Al~1 c.)~/.. ?'' C4'Lcl rlL.r~~~... IY' ,/aJ th3 l:Jc_..alr.1ony 1~'
s;r'. ;:ora cc of ta'C' To'.~acco I.15-11--1tLitc?., in
ca' ha c1uc~t`Ll '~r. ;;i.lliar:: i. Stc:;art, forr er Surr,eon Get:vr~~1
of t:i,:! Lnit-au S`atOL;. 2015045954
Tiie statc;.ent:~ attri_'utuc: to Jr. Stct,*art indicated taat
t.1C:' f'Jr::.~y Sl2iYjl3on Ge.'::icral woui!ti Oi:i:Os':r' li:(;islatlon to
C:i':_1iJ11S;1 Ti,1::iIiL:T1 l].?'lit i on' to.'1' aniCl nicotine .ln, c1CZ:!rCL:tC'. r;.
j on 3,1 U'
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It seems to :^e :chcn you quotc r:omeone out of contc::t
you can invariably quote words which agree with your pcsition.
I::oulc; not be surL riscd i{ so~.c:.ouy mirht be quotinq re out
of cor:tc;:t ana' havc mo supporting thcir position on so.:,o
matter related to cigarettco.
In any case, Iwrote to Dr. Stnwa.rt, who is noe:.
~ ,;,, ~ er
C::,~ , ~ncel l:~r of tI,^'. ~uisi4na St~.te L:z wer_sit+~ ~,' dic~, ._ ~ `'cr.t
and asked hir.; to cor,1.;,cnt on IIr. Kornc5aw's testimony in our
cf`oa to to es taulis;i m«}:i:r.:um limits on tar and'nicotir:c.
I would like to road into the record Dr. Stcrrart's
letter to r,e in answer to tirat inc;ui r. jr. It says:
:.o~s:
"'Dear Senatcr '_'.o~s
"I appreciate the opportunity to cor.^u ent on S. 1454 and,
rarticularly, on the testir:ony rrepar.ed by :Ir.
Prc.cident of the Tobacco Institutc.
::orneaaa,
"First, 1et me say t;!1t I ar.c not surprised by anything
the Tobacco Institute c?oes or says. They are very c;ood at
the ruote out of conte::t and the risuGe of facts for their own
c'.esires.
2015045955
":1r. hornec:ay has quoted re in several places from
testir:,ontr I gave in 19G9 co..cernin r"tar" and nicotin~c levels
in cicarettes. I T:as asl:cci innur.er<-:ble tir.,cs (luring tl:ct
zr ::h^tI.er or not I fclt tll.cr.c shoulc'd be a cciling on ti:c
of 'tar' and nicotint: allv.:cc' lal ciRar.ct_tes.
"I did not fec]., at the ti~(., t:1at tlrerc: should L)~_, Z
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c~ilin a o.^n the lcvels of ' tur' and' nicotin^ allo,.red in
cigarettes. :1v basis for this position was that to establisl';
an acnWYent :.ealth hazard threshold would imr 1y that there
,:as a safC cirarette. Tnis, of course, is not true. iacr_e is
no suc : thing as a safe cir.arette.
"'Excosuro to ci-qarcttc smol..e is more than the tvpe of
ci~a: ette sr..o?:cc3. m:ze c::posure to 'tar' and nicotine
ir.crea ,cs rapidly as the ls.st 'Alci1F of the cigarette is
s.T.'.o%Cd. iXpC) sllre o.~iviously increases by the number of '
cie;arettcs smio.:ed per day and by the nuTMber of years of
sno:cina.
"It i..as my position that it was better to have the
oacAaqe and all advertising labelcd witlY! the 'tar' and nicotin
le.,els along with the hazardous product label so that the
pu::lic could choose a cigarette ~,rith lower 'tar' and! nicotine
content if they found that the pressures to smoke were such
that cessation of sr~oking ~~:as impossiblc.- I believe there is
some evidence now that t:ie public is, in fact, choosing more
cicrarettes with lo,::er 'tar' and ricotine content.
"I do not have co,ies of r.y numerous testinonies on
cigarette smoking during 19GE'^-69, so I cannot checl; with
certai..th. I:owever, I believe it
s.as the st4ttc:;ents I madle
t::at position t'.:at 'ir. .::ornegav is quotincr.
course, I c.-:s stutinG r.-.Position Lccause I fc:ar(:d
kce--Federali Reporters, Inc.
II
t::at settinq a tTcre ;:iola t;ould ltall t'.'ic, pco~~,~l(-: into the
j'on
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assumption that a::_r cicarettes in any quantity that werc
belo,.l that level could be sr;ol:ed with i:~;ounity. That aould
only serve to inc::ease t;ze health hazard to tlie puilic of
cigarette sL-Io};in!g.
°:?r. !'.ornega1 , on the other hand, quotes my stc^+tel':c:nts
in part to imply, tthat 'tar' andi nicotine have noti~:.inr, toI do
;.ritiZ t`..e health liaza.r~ls of ciRarcttc This, of coursc,
has c:izracteriz--d tae conl-rov_-rsy from the be;innir.g.
"I believe tiiat S. 1454 rerresents a. ne,-; and ibroaeler
a)l:roacIl to the settinq of 'tar' a:zdl iiicotinc limits in
ci;arettes which avoid ti:c thresh:olc'., i;roblcM. ~. 1454 is
i>a'Sed on a i uJlic ::Gdlth principle w::ich has bcen used for
lcZ1Z1' C0:1tl.ries as ^u1j17C t.Co11t;Z I..e~s"u11res to avoid i:Ealta
.:azarus.
".. :~;odern e::<<r;cle :,auld be ra~i ation ~rotectio7 at lo:r
ievels of radiatio.: eaposure. There is substa:itial scientific
arr_e^e: t t'.at all r, zdiatior. is ::a::arc?ous -.and t:`,atno t:rres'.:old
exists. All radiation protection r..casures that I}.no,Y of are
:.~;.s:!C: oIn that P.adiatyO:]1 protection I:easure3 are all
ai:-ed at allowing only that e::pcsuurc t:Zat cannot absolutell ;)c
avnided or the benefits out,:-cic;ii the risk of the hazards.
"I thln% the samc holc?s true for cigarettes. Any
201504595'7
e::cosure to cigarette sr..o}.:c or the contents off tzat s^o':c w::
~ I., ~_ y ,vaic1,.,ul , ~~~iouild '.:,y ~~ ~vo:tic,ed. T ,: ~ t:ie ~~;:~ ;lic :,il n.;
ca. t
2511 acc^; t 1~:-c~ ~i:~:iti^:l CIf c.ircr.c! t,s, and I don't t'.:in:, t'ZI
-oulc?, t,:ezo tht? T ruc:ent i ~ublic healt:: posture is to do those
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t::i'nrc that decro-ase eriposurc to the r.a::ir!u;1 degree acceptable
to the pu.5lic.
"This is Z;;orka:;le p roc,rram which :%rill, in the long run,
cut uown en the hazard to aealth. There is 5ood, eviGence t'_ie
:,u:~Dlie <zccc}-t ci:.arettcf, th:,t arc lo.w in e::j osure to 'tar'
and nicotinc
"I L-elieve t`:ie testi:.;o::y presentec~, to the Su:.-cort:.;ittee
~ ~ 1iJ ~ C\l. ~*:J ~.
U. +L T~ Lu.."C.
istent ,: i'=i .~:hat I aave just said. I
lieve Chaotcr 9 of L'. c 197'' ~ ' ~
~ ~ ~ ~urgeon Gencral s report suppor~::
it.
r'I would a?ree ,:ast!-i I:1r, I;uVrl t:iat the bill should l:e
a:::end.oa: so that successive red'uctio7s in the pe^rr.:issibls lc
vel~
chouled not he made solely c:eper.dent u-:on the avoidance of
' la:.reasona!)1e' health zazards. .
"I would~ li!:e to concratulate you orn all of your efforts
to-,; arvis solving this health problemanel I hope 1 ou are
successful in securi ni, Senate approval proval of your bill~."
Sa.~ned William P:. S:cc>art, ::.D, , Chancallor, Louisiana
ctate Univcrsity ;tcdi'~cal Center. And the letter in its Q
cn tirct1~ ~7<~s now been read ir_to the recorc:. O
Senator Coo:.. "r. C'::air:-,3n? A
GD
Senator :4osc,. Yes? ~
Senator C:oo)C. In resj'.`nse to t~:1S letter I WOulG ll%e
t~o a~l:;~o r~et into the rccoa:c: t:rat~t I'r, :,orncqay ~ saiv~ f~it~ to
jon
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avail himself of t:zis Co:;,:,dttee, not only to give his state-
r:ent, but to be 'czoss-e:~a ~incd by anv member of this
Co.:L-,ittee who eit..er nc~reed or disaareed crith his statement.
/ J
You have seen fit to send his testimony to Dr. Stewart '
to com.:.ent bY letter. I would request of this Cozi.r: ittee that
it- invite Dr. ;:tc;9'c r t to coP'te beyo1 e this CoI:'^.ittee becc» u3e
t'.zere are r:n1 t:zir..r,s in his letter that can be ab: olutely
rEfuted wit?iout any question.
Further, if it is not the desire of this Co,-.-iittee*to
invitc him, then I-uould like to take the matter to the whole
Co:^^ittee so that we right get a suhpoena issued to Dr. Stewart
so that he might '.Jo u'skec: to ccme before this Committee if ha
doos not wish to d'o so.
Senator iioss. ~-icll, the Senator knoc.s very well that
Dr. Ste%.rart can be invited, is willing! to testify. I3e has
t_stified before us numerous times. Vlhat I did was send do~:n
ti':e testironm, in which a witness quoted Dr. Stewart and cuote6ci
him in a way that said .;hat Dr. Stewart now refutes in hi:s
letter. ii'e says that those stater..ents were out of context and
do not su7,r.ort his tosition.
If you want Dr. Stc;.:art to come and say that in so many
`oras, wh'y, we ;,ri11 :Zave Dr. Stewart. 2~.5Q'459.59
Senator Cook. I do inei''eeci, :Decausc Dr. Stesaart :,ays in
i
his o~an ].etter.: "I dc not `.:,1ve copies of tr.y nw.;erous
2511 t"~t 11:'.OI11C' : on' c]: J';'_2.°::!::te s~lCi...I:r: C::?IlJ:I:!CJ ].)(II"i 9, so I
cca::lU't:
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ciiec:: with certai:.t.!." So I can only say to you in all
fairness he should check his testinonv before he cor;es before
t:1is Cor:.raittee so that :,h~at tme said can be in fact docu:r.cnted
as it has already L-n.^-..'1 G:ocu::,e:'1tCd ::.vtorE:' this CoI^s~littc.^_', a'n d
if he wants to rciut0 it he should c:o SO in .)erSon and not L}'
1!a tter,
The reason I:;av this, :Sr.C:a ir;::c::2, is if VG'1 wi? 1
clI :c;; latest issue of Fortune :iaG,aZiI'lV' there is awonC2nrr'u.!a
article on our Toy Sz-fety Act and it is called "iemnest in
, - .
~ `i"ovlanG, " and the rectsonI~'Jrin'j. thiSLa)is IC:onOt tiiinii t7ii,''
Co:-,mittce or t.:e pui.;lic should be stamrcc?ed into so:,:etl:ir.g
t::..t cvcrlbcdf iias alrcady bia~edlj~ agrced~~ they are going to.
do sor;etiiing about, including the Surgcon General of t::e
T7n; ted Stateo.
Senator ::oss. I ir,i.ght say f::.e Adr::inistration.
Senator Cook. If tiiey are })iased, I will agree to
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you t:aat I%:ill say to you that tlrey are biased also, and I
do not do that with any degree of certainty that I have to
acree Viith everyt.'°.ing that this Adniniatration says.
I might say to you t::at I aia reading frorl "Tempest in
_bylezn,c?" in I'ortuane ;_acazine. 201504SBC0
For cr.ar.:,~1a, the Ce:^r..isJlOI1 re~, orted that in the U. S.
rore than 15,000 ch_ldron unc?cr 15 die cach year frmr acc? c:ents
a::d anot'.:cr 17 r:illiori ar.c znjLr.ec, sevcr.cly enouch to r.estr.i.ct
^o,-7 -i1 ac tivit:' or r.cc,uira r Cc? ical atteatioa.
