NYSA TI Multipage 2
FT. Lauderdale, Fla. Sun.Sentinel --Do 62,167
Abstract
"In Guyana. they call it ihe yellow perLl -- 12 cigarettes packaged in yellow paper• John Ishmael smoked six packs a day. His lingers were yellow from nicotine. HL.~ teeth were stained an unbeeomming shade of brown. Then, he quit. But when someone ]it up a cigarette, Ishmael would position himself nearby so he could inhale the smoke. ..It took him 10 years to lose the urge to .smoke.
Fields
- NYSA numbers
- 1200 B1793 03A
- Named Organization
- American Cancer Society
- American Lung Association
Voluntary health organization concerned with fighting lung disease, promoting lung health and advocating clean air, indoors and out.- American Telephone and Telegraph Company (AT&T)
- Anheuser-Busch Companies Inc.
- Baptist Hospital (Miami, Florida)
- Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)
- Education Department (ED)
- Government Printing Office (GPO)
- Harvard School of Public Health
- Institute for Social Research (University of Michigan)
- Liggett & Myers Inc. (Pioneer in the generic cigarette business)
Cigarette manufacturer; Pioneer in the generic cigarette business; L&M is the manufacturer of Chesterfield, Decade, Dorado, Duke of Durham in 1958, Eagle, Eve, L&M, Lark, Pyramid and Stride cigarettes- Liggett Group Inc. (American cigarette manufacturer)
American cigarette manufacturer, was the first to start selling discount brands (GPC)- Miller Brewing Co. (Subsidiary of Philip Morris Co.)
Subsidiary of Philip Morris Co.- National Institutes of Health (NIH)
- New England Journal of Medicine
- New York Stock Exchange
- Oxford University
- R.J. Reynolds Industries, Inc.
- R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co. (Cigarette manufacturer (Camel, Winston, Doral))
Cigarette manufacturer (Camel, Winston, Doral)- Schlitz
- Senate
- Seventh Day Adventists (religion that prohibits smoking. runs smoking cessation prog)
- University of Michigan
- Veterans Administration
- White House
- American Lung Association
- Named Person
- Bedwell, Don
- Bent, Peter
- Billington, Francis
- Cahill, Sandy
- Christopher, F. Hudnall, Jr.
- Cole, Brad
- Curran, Mary
- Deasy, William E.
- Dixon, Bernard
- Doll, Richard
- Dowd, Jim
- Eysenck, Hans Jurgen, Ph.D., Sc.D. (Psychologist, U of London; worked with RJR)
- Fishel, David (VP RJR Public Relations)
Also on TI Communications Committee- Goldberg, Harry C.
- Hawkes, Robert
- Helms, Jesse (U.S. Senator, (R-North Carolina))
Strongly pro-tobacco- Hill, Austin Bradford (Lung cancer researcher with Doll)
In the September 1950 British Medical Journal, Richard Doll and Dr. A. Bradford Hill published preliminary report on smoking and lung cancer. They examined smoking rates for hospital patients with and without lung cancer. They did 1954 prospective studies of 40,000 physicians and concluded that heavy smokers were 24 times as likely to die of lung cancer (E. Whelan 1984).- Hill, Bradford
- Ishmael, John
- Israel, Beth
- Johnston, David (Supervisor, Statutory Reporting)
1998- Johnston, Lloyd (Principal Investigator, University of Michigan researcher)
- Knox, David R.
- Little, Rich
- Mcmillan, Alex
- Melnick, Andrew
- Neave, Kim
- Palm, T. West
- Pauly, Helen
- Randolph, Frances
- Rayson, Kathy
- Rice, Don
- Rodriguez, Juan Ortiz
- Smith, Temple
- Super, Harris Teeter
- Tompson, Carroll G.
- Bent, Peter
- Date Loaded
- 27 Jan 2005
- Box
- 0027. Library/Miscellaneous - 11-21 18205-18817
- Folder
- PA - PARU
- Division
- Library
Document Images
FT. LAUDERDALE, FLA.
SUN.SENTINEL
--Do 62,167--
FT. LAUDERDALE METROPOLITAN AREA
,JAN 981
Non-smokers have their
own S'ocial circle
By Kathy Rayson
Slaff writer
"In Guyana. they call it ihe yellow perLl -- 12
cigarettes packaged in yellow paper•
John Ishmael smoked six packs a day. His lingers
were yellow from nicotine. HL.~ teeth were stained an
unbeeomming shade of brown. Then, he quit. But
when someone ]it up a cigarette, Ishmael would
position himself nearby so he could inhale the smoke.
..It took him 10 years to lose the urge to .smoke. lie
has succeeded, which explains why today hu is
president of Non-Smokers International, an organiza-
tion dedicated to the proposition that non-smokers
are. entitled to fun.
Fun for the non-smoker isn't easy to come by, says
Ishmael.
"If you are a single person and want to meet
members o[ the opp,.'.site se.,¢, where do you go in
South Florida? The bars," he says. "Name one
smokeless bar "
The same can be said of night clubs and most
restaurants, he adds. Married non-smokers encounter
the same problems as singles. Often, people who are
sensitive to smoke -- especially those sensitive to
smoke for health reasons -- will stay home rather
than go out for fear of encountering smoke, he says.
The alternative, according to Ishmael, is Non-
Smokers International, which provides a "'family of
non-smokers" in three categories -- singles, mar-
rieds and young non-smokers. 22 and under. These
t"
groups meet tot bridge, discussion groups, pool
parties and gourmet meals. Most activities are held
in the homes of members.
• There are about 700 du~s-paying members in
Palm Beach. Broward and Dade counties, according
to Ishmael. Many of them are referred to the group
by ~rganizations such as the American Lung Associa-
• tion.
":The group was started three years ago by Sandy
Cahill, a Fort Lauderdale radio dispatcher who sued
that city for the right to work in a smoke-free
environment. She lost the suit, but met enough non-
smokers to start a group.
Non-smokers
Annual dues are $75 for singles,
Continued from Page ID
' "'It fell apart because of or-
ganizational problems," says{
Ishmael
Ishmael, who had moved to South
Florida following a divorce, had
attended a few meetings and was
later, asked to re-orga~dze the
group. "I a~ked the members what
they wanted and they said they felt
groups such as GASP and the Lung
Association were doing a darn good
job oF lobbying for the rights of non-
smokers so more of that wasn't
needed." he says. "People wantt-d
to have fun m a smoke-frL~,, safe
environment•'"
$100 for married couples and $25
for young ncmYsmokers. That money
pays for the activities, although
Ishmael says an additional fee Ls
somtimes charged to help delray
expenses.
, The daonev also supports the
group's monthly newslvtter and a
24-hour telephone answering ser-
vice that keeps members informed
of the latest actlwties, which are
held daily either on a [ormal or an
Informal basis, according to
Ishmael.
The group has a debt o[ $11,000
and is applying tot non-profit sta-
tus. says L~hmael. lie says the rea-
son for the debt xs the co~t ot to coast so that no
-" -
• ~uJr, main-
taining the answc, ring service and
running dally advertisements in lo-
cal newspapers to SOl|tit members.
Ishmael says it's important to at-
tract new members because exLst-
mg members could lose interest
without new faces.
But we don't accept transients,"
says Ishmael, who says he is an
"investor," mostly in real estate.
"We don't want the guy who is in
town for a couple weeks and wants
to pinch a few bottoms."
Ishmael hopes the group w~ll
s~)meday be truly international --
or. at least, naticmaL "'We want to
have a family of non-smokers coast
matter where a
TI04231052

member travels he Wlll ~ abl~ ~o
socialize with ether non-smokers."
Why ~ ~s implant2
TheFe is th~ "~y-girl ~hlng."
~ Ishmael. who met his pr~eat
wife at a ~on-Smoke~ lnterna-
tionat event. "The non-smok~
wan~ ~o date or marry would pr~
fer to date or mar~ a non-smoker."
And, there is the ~onomie
as~ct. "~ we ~om~ larger,
wilt make it economically wise
bus~n~s to accommodate us as a
non-smoking group. I'm talking
about ~staurants, in particular.
~e, like Denay's ~d
already provide us with accom-
modations because non-smoking is
~ood business.
"We've roached a strong level
Ishamel says el {he
"But we are not anti-smoking,"
he adds. "V~e tell our merabers to
respect smokers. We don't think it's
illegal, lattcning or immoral to
smoke. Wc think i('s stupid, but
everyone is entitlffd to their own
stupidity."
~ ~ide ~o Smoke-Fr~ Areas
Broward County l~taurant and
7'hca~ers ~s available from the
American Lung Association, 2020 S.
Andrews Ave., Fort La~derdaie,
The guide includes 49 r~tau-
rants and 19 theaters that either
prohibit smoking or .provide
~moking sections.
The ~oktet ~s fr~ as a Christ~
mas Sea] service.
In Palm Beach County, an or-
dinance rt~uires restaurants that
seat more than 50 patrons t~
non-smoking areas.
TI04231053

THOUSAND OAKS, CALIF.
NEWS
D. 18,300 M S. 18,500
VENTURA METROPOLITAN AR~A
'Non smokers
smokers aren't
talking:, study
When~a smoker lights up in front of a non-
smoke.r,~...~1~'~.~sn't the non-smoker just
say, straight out: "Put it out, bud["
It is because non-=nol~ers "don't want to
make a scene" or are "afraid the smoker
will get angry," or because they don't feel
that they "have the right to ask," according
to a new survey completed by a University
of .C, alffonda, Berkeley doctoral student.
• The student, Frances Randolph, a degree
candidate i~. UC's school of public health,
based her stucty.on telephone interviews of
600 persom randomly selected in the Berke-
ley arem Her survey was supported with
$2,000 [Tom GASP (Group'Against Smoking
Pollution) .and $2,000 from ~ederal and
private grants.
She found out that smokers and non--
smoker~ have their own brand of ~ommuni-
cation gap.
Although non-smokers said they are
~upcomfortable ~itting next to ~omeone who
ia' ~moking in a public place, ~ percent of
them claimed they had 'never asked a
smoker tostop; acco.rding to the survey.
However, the majority of the smokers
questioned in the random survey said a
request to ~top smoking would not bother
them and that 'they would support local
smoking ordinances. A large number ~id
they would yote for a state law barring
smoking in c~rtain places.
Smokers and non-smokers did have one
major disagreement, according to the study.
More than ~ the non-smokers said they
would be bethered if someode was smoking
in a re~taurant near them while only 8
percent of the smokers believed their smok-
ing would make anyone uncomfortable in a
restaurant.
18259
T104231054

GRIFFIN, GA.
NEWS
D. 12,665
JAN 31 I~-- .'
Less youth smoking
Could it be that the army of
cigarette-smoking role models
d-~IO'~ ]~y the tobacco industry
over so many years is not winning,
the war, after all? Could it be that all
those pretty-girls and handsbme
young men depicted in advanced
stages of rapture over the delights of
puffing have not had quite the
desired effect on the young?
So it might seem, judging by the
latest results in an annual.survey of
smoking habits among 17,000 high
school seniors across the country.
Two-thirds of them said they thought
there was a "great risk" in smoking
a pack or more of cigarettes a day.
The University of Michigan's In-
stitute for Social Research, w, hich
has made such surveys since 1975,
reports a significant decline in the
number of seniors reporting that
they smoke daily -- 2I percent in
1980, compared with 29 percent three
years earlier. According to one of
the scientists making the study, Dr.
Lloyd Johnston, he and his col-
leagues attribute this decline to
"long-term increase in young peo-
ple's health concerns about smok-
ing, as well as a sharp decrease in
the preceived peer acceptance of
smoking."
This brings us back to those
legions of nubile maidens and sturdy
youths who :tout cigarettes so
relentlessly. The message is as ef-
fective as it once was. By now, 74
percent of the sen,iors think their
friends would disapprove of their
smoking a pack a day. In 1975 the
figure was 55 percent.
The happy thing about all this is its
promise of better health for these
young people two or three decades~
hence, when smoking would begin to
take its toll. The Michigan survey
results are heartening news.
T!04231055

DANBURY, CONN.
NEWS-TIMES
D. 39,571-S. 42,196
BRIDGEPORT-STAMFORD METRO AREA
2 stores c~ted for
to post 'non-smokln~~ .signs
DA~URY -- PoHc~ have"
summo~ to employe~ of two gro-
cery stores ~at have ~led t0 comply
with a ~ty ordinance r~u~ing the
s~r~ to ~st ~no s~o~ng'
Kat~n ~la~ 18 Sky Edge
~ive, and C~o Fl~a, o~ 63 Elbow
Hill Road ~ Br0o~ield, were.~u~ the
summonses when S~, C~I Foley
s~ their stor~ this week.
~[~o works for ~]ano's ~]icates-
sen ~d Flandra wor~ for the 7-11 con-
ve~ence store on ~ap~ard Ridge.
Poli~ said the two stores were among a
group of stvr~ ~at w~e w~ a~ut
~fing ~e sig~ ~rlier th~ month..
T104231056

Orange, NJ
H.
Germans adopt Cig~_r.?.~~e warn±ngs
West German oiEarette makers, after losi.n~ a
two yoar fight with the ~over~ont, have a~reed to
to add., ' ' Warn£n~: Smokin~ endangers your health' '
in their nowspaper and ~aga~ine a~s. By Ootober of
198i, these same warmi~gs must be on the packages
and later bn all posters. As of this da~e loose to-
bacco~ cigars and ci~arillos are not included.
However. they are be~ pressured to comply
voluntarily ~
1S264
T!04231057

®
SAH JUAH, PUERTO RICO
STAR
D. 40,595 S. 45,479
,JAN 27 192!
Dr. ~,ngel A. Roman Frenco toffs a news conterence ~on-
doy an attempt should be made to stop students and
teochcrs ~t public schools from "smoking, instead of making
~l fus~ over asbestos classrooms. Looking on is )uan
Rodriguez of the Education Deportment, (STAR photo by
Jo=~' Garcia)
have given wide circulation to
posters asserting that certain
structures are dangerous be-
cause "it has been scieutifi-
Ih, ulfl~ S¢~rdar~' .laime R~v-
Doc puts cigarettes
over asbestos risk
less the lungs are further
damaged by tobacco smoke.
Roman was an expert wit-
hess in the class-action suit
that led test November to a
court-approved plan to dismano
tie some 1,800 public-school
classrooms built with
asbestos-cement panels over
the next live years.
His call [ora qo-smoking
campaign among teachers and
stddent.s was mode Monday
during a news conference held
by three Commnnwealth agen-
cies to counteract what they
claim are "'exaggeralions" in
recent protests over the so|ely
o! classrooms, lunchrooms and
lavatories, in which asbestos-
cement panels are used.
Over the past few weeks,
parents have reportedly kept
their children [rum attending
classes in nearly 1~0 schools
where asbestos-cement panels
were being removed. Education
Department spokesman Juan
Ortiz Rodriguez said Mo/~da.v
that the protests were largely
led by the Teachers
Federation's "'somewhat ex-
aggerated campaign o[ feor."
' By THOMAS DORNI~Y
0¢ The STAR
I'eople concerned about
health problems thai may be
linked to ~s~tstos used in pub-
lic schoot structures were ad-
vised Monday to focus their
energy instead on a campaign
against cigarette .~.
leacher.~ and s[udenls.
The suggestion was made by
Dr. Ai~gel A. Roman E'ranco,
director o[ the University
Puerto Rice's Cancer Institute.
Hc suid lung d~mage
by inhaling asbestos fibers
not likely to lead to cancer
Ti0423105

-3-
Friday, March 20, 1981
Page
illil II I
Competitors Watch
Liggett's Sales
In Generic Cigarettes
By DON BEDWELL
ObServer 5tmH Wrt~r
Will the Llggett Group's new no-/rills cigarette
smoke out the competition?
So far, maior tobacco companies give no Indica-
tion of following Ltggett's lead In introducing gener-
ic cigarettes to supermarket shelves.
But competitors are monitoring the new no-name
line to see if it is cutting into sales of their national
brands.
Unlike such famous Liggett brands as Chester-
fieid, once among the nation's top sellers, the gener-
ics produced by Llggett's Gary Tobacco Co. subsidi-
ary are sold in plain, white wrappers with no
distinctive brand identification.
The cigarettes are being produced for Gary by
Liggett & Myers Tobacco Co. in Durham, another
Liggett Group subsidiary.
Reynolds Industries of Winston-Salem, the
nation's largest cigarette firm, says it has no plans to
produce unbranded cigarettes.
"Generic cigarettes have been tried several times
In the past, and they've never succeeded to a point
that we would get involved with them," spokesman
David Fishel said Thuisday.
As a rule of thumb, he said, a new ctgazette must
capture about half a percentage point ol the national
market to justify marketing costs.
That fraction adds up to about 30 billion ciga-
rettes, more than skeptics believe the no-name
smokes can capture in an industry that always has
touted image.
"We are carving out a significant niche In the
marketplace," eonteuds Llggett's Jim Dowd, "by of-
fering a high-quality cigarette at a reasonable price."
Alex McMillan, president of Harris-Teeter Super
Markets of Charlotte, agrees that generic products
-- including IJggett's cigarettes -- have won sur-
prising popularity since they were introduced here
under the "'Valu-Ttme" label.
"'In our N.C. stores, one generic Is the seventh
best seller of about 1,50 brand styles," McMillan said.
Liggett began offering Its generic cigarettes qui-
etly last summer in the Midwest, under a private
label. They sold for 10 cents less per pack, $I less
per carton, than national brands.
Speculation about the manufacturer grew as the
product was test-marketed in 1,S00 stores scattered
through 42 states.
Only this week did Liggett claim parentage, pro-
claiming that the unbranded line would be expanded
into nalional dlshibutiu:: In response to encouraging
consumer
The no-nano gamble could prove crucial for Lig-
gett.
For year,; it hax been rumored on the brink of
pulling ot{t ¢'ff ~he cigarette industry aHo~ether as
sitt:h brands as Chesterlield, I.&M and 1 ark .have
clined to 3% ~,f lh¢, national nlarkel, q o cover such a
retreat, the firnl ttas diversified into li,.tnor, pet foods
and sporting goods.
Ligg~,tt executives contend generic smokes are a
logicat a~ition t~ the growing stock o~ nnbranded
products ¢m grocers" ~helves.
Since 1t~78, when generic goods first began ap-
pearing i~ supt, rmarkets, the number ot hems has
burgeoned front 50 to as many as 250 at some chains.
Liggett says iu, cigarette is made of high-quality
tobacco but cat] be sold for less because it dm,sn't
need fancy packaging, con:~umer advertising or cost-
ly solos lechniqt~e~.
Just the ~amo. it i~ being launched nationally
w~th the help t,f advertising in ma~or trade Fublica-
t~ons on the tht, tiw "'Generics. are on the move."
Tl04231059

TIAE MILWAUKEE J/OURNAL Thursday, March 19, 1981
Schlitz' cash stirs investors
.. By Helen Pauly
o! The Journal Stal'f
• ""SAY. that again? Jos. Schlitz Brewing Co. -- a
c~h-rlch acquisition target?
:Activity in the company's stock apparently has
I:~e~n stirred in recent days by the brewer's recent-
ly.'released annual report, which shows a healthier
a~nd, some might even say, a cash-rich company•
~9ome 681,000 shares of Schlitz stock changed
blinds on Wednesday. Another 326,000 shares had
been traded by midday Thursday.
"~AII this, despite an eroding market share that
reflects a seeming inability to keep up with the
gl.ants of brewing -- Anheuser-Busch Inc. and
Miller Brewing
: Schll~ has substantially reduced its long-term
d~bt, to $l 19.7 million at the end of last year from
$.223.1 million in 1976. Over the same period, its
d~bt-to-capital ratio -- a measure of financial
s..trength -- has fallen to 26.9% from 38.5%.
"' Liquidity rises
: Rather suddenly, the company has become much
more liquid. During a two-year period that began
in 1980, Schlitz is gaining $100 million from the
s~le last year of its Syracuse, N.Y. brewery to
A~heuser-Busch,
.'. The value of Schlitz's marketable securities, at
lower of cost or market, more than quadrupled in
1'980 -- to $134.5 million at the end of last year
f~'om $30.5 million a year earlier. The higher figure
I~ nearly six times the comparable value for mar-
ketable securities listed by cross-town competitor
pabst Brewing Co,, despite the fact that the two
b~ewers are neck-and-neck in sales.
• On Wednesday, volume in Schlitz common stock
v~as the fourth heaviest for all companies traded
on the New York Stock Exchange. By midmorning
Wednesday, 264,000 shares had been swapped and
t~ding had to be halted to handle the influx of
~ders.
".Schlitz officials said they did not know why
t.~adlng was so heavy.
• At midday Thursday, the stock was up 75 cents
to $12.12 a share, from the previous day's close of
$11.37, Its highest closing price since 1979. For
some time now. the stock has been trading below
book value, which was $11.20 at the end of 1980.
Last year, Schlitz never traded above $9.88 and
prior to Wednesday, the highest the stock had been
this year was $10.63.
According to Don Rice, an analyst with Blunt
Ellis & Loewi. just two weeks ago an average day
of trading I.or Schlitz stock was about 35,~)00
shares. Last week average daily trading had risen
to at much as 55,000 shares.
Monday 117,000 shares of Schlitz stock changed
hands and Tuesday volume rose to 178,000 shares.
According to Rice, Schlitz is now more attrac-
tive for a takeover than two years ago.
Canadian firm mentioned
Rumors about a possible takeove~ have been cir-
culating for years now. One name mentioned more
than once is Rothmans of Pall Mall, Canada Ltd.,
headquarted in Toronto, Ont. Rothm.ans, which
malces tooacco products, a-l-ss-owns 50% of Cana-
da's third largest brewing firm, Carling O'Keefe
• Breweries of Canada Ltd.
Robert Hawkes, president o! Rothmans, said
Thursday that he had heard a rumor that his com-
pany was considering a bid for Schlitz, but he said
Rothmans had not taken par~ in any of the recent
trading activity of Schlitz stock. He declined fur-
ther comment.
Andrew Melnick, an analyst with Drexel, Burn-
ham & Lambert in New York, also termed Schlitz
a good takeover prospect. But he askeck. "What"
good is lots of liquidity if its volume (market
share) continues to erode?"
According to the Brewers Digest, Schlitz has a
brewing capacity of 25.6 million barrels a year.
Last year l! only sold 14.9 million barrels. Industry
experts consider 80% usage of brewing facilities
the breakeven point for brewers.
Pabst, on the other hand, has a capacity of 18
million barrels and last year sold 15.1 million bar-
rels.
New Booze
Law Having
Little Effect
'The only trouble we have
is at midnight Saturday.
People don't understand
that we can't sell them any
beer or wine on Sunday.'
By David Johnston
Despite hopes of increased revenue and fears of increased
crime. Atlanta's month-old, 24-hour beer and wine sales law
seem~ to have brought little more money or mayhem to the
city.
The ordinance, introduced by City Councilman gam~
Howard, allows stores to soil beer and wine around the clo¢lt,
except on Sunday. Before, stores could not sell beer or wine
after L1:45 p.m.
(C.oat'dl
Ti04231060

; ochm n: "Thr e-Year
Cut 1onnogolioble"
If the administration gets the reductions
in rates that it wants, look for a quick turn for
the better, says the budget director.
O. Mr. Stockman, if Congress approves President Reagan's
tax and speeding cuts, how long will it be before we see the
beneficial reactions that you expect? A couple of years?
A No, I think some of them will be apparent immediately.
If we can write into law a very major shift in entitlements
and budget costs for '89. and late.r years, it will be reflected in
the fhaancial markets immediately. Interest
rates will start to come down. Then that
whole process of recovery and; let's say, res-
toratlon of health will fan out to the rest of
the economy from that point forward.
O. Suppose the economy d6esn'f reactbut
just continues to be flat? What is your fallback
position?
A If you get interest rates down and .~,ou
get the inflation spiral winding downv~,ard
rather than upward, then the economy's.go-
ing to start growing. Today, it's prlmar~y the total lack of
confidence in the £utnre that's stalling out the economy.
O. Congress is threatenin9 to go along with a tax cut for only
one year instead of the three years President Reagan has pro-
posed. How serious a setback to your program would that be?
A Very serious, very serious, ave want a three-year tax
cut. That's nonnegotiable. We've had'.one-year tax cuts
practic',dly every year for the last five years, and the econo-
my has deteriorated. We'll make that ve.ry cleax. O. Would the President veto a one-year tax cut?
A It would be a possibility, aVe're not in a position to
make any public statements on that right now. But every-
one recognizes tile President has veto power. A tax bill that
was totally inconsistent with the President's plan would
have to be looked at pretty carefully..
(~ Are you surprised that most of the criticism of President
Reagan's economic program is centering on the tax cuts?
A No, it doesn't surprise me at all. It's fairly obvious what
the Democrats are saying: No. 1, that deep, multiyear tax re-
ductions axe unacceptable because they "will require expen-
diture controls and budget cuts that they're nnwilling to
swallow. If they can dilute and limit the tax reduction, they
can then propose a much smaller package of spending re-
ductions. The Democrats arc treading water. They're talk-
ing rhetorically right now--like, "'The budget package is
wonderful." They don't really believe that. But they know
that the budget package we've proposed is driven by the
size of the tax package, and t.hat if they can reduce and di-
lute the tax package, they won't have to .confront the spend-
ing question in the dimension that we've reconwnended.
Secondly, the Democrats have always liked to use tax
policy as a way of redistributing the tax burden and redis-
tTibuting the income of the country. They're fundanzentally
opposed to the President's plan because it's designed to
reduce everybody's rate mad thereby ge.n~rate income rath-
2.4 Copyright @ 19B1, U.S.Ne~s & Wodd Report. In~
Interview With
Da vid Stockman,
Director of Office
Of Manager~ent
And Budget
er than redistribute it. So they have invented the excuse
that the tax program is inflationary.
O. How do you explain the polls that show that American~
seem to want budget cuts, but are leery about tax cuts7
A What the polls really show is: People want less govern-
ment. To them, it means both less spending and less taxes.
And that's precisely what we have proposed. The bottom
line of our plan is that, after it is fully implemented by
1984-85, the government would be taxing and spending a
much lower share of the production and income generated
by the private sector--19 percent rather than 22 or 23
percent. That's the basic policy choice involved.
Q Some members of your own party in the Senate think the
tax battle is going to go on into 1982~
A i'm sure there will be a tax bill long before that. The
ecoeomy requires it. If we're going to get it off dead
center, we're going to have to have the tax reduction.
O. Why? If you don't get a tax bill this year,
what does that do to your economic forecast?
A The forecast is premised on the re-
spouse you would get from enactment el-the
tax bill at a fairly early date this year. Things
would stay pretty much fiat, as they are now.
(3, How quickly do you have to have your
program in place?
A As early as possible, given the realities
of the congressional process. To move a tax
bill through two committees and to confer-
ence at the s;une time that these committees are involved
in major budget-change items is going to create somewhat
of a traffic jam in pure logistical terms. We recognize that. I
\vould think three or four months ought to be an adequate
time in which to get something to the President's desk. O. Would you take budget cuts without tax
culs?
A I'll take budget cuts any way I can get them. But
budget cuts alone won't solve the problem. We need tax
cuts because the tax burden is too high on the productive
apparatus in our economy, whether" it's individuals or firms.
If you want to restart the engines of growth, investment.,
The President with Resan and Stockman at the White House.
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