Tobacco Documents Online

Cza~Cn.Jae Co.ll M oa.1 ,A) z6 rs~ y- ~ d: D,) 05; A ~ ,8 o4~~tr.-~r ceNr-F+. E- C-RI:L-N-LTH &-IG SSAN-LAN AND -JOHN BANKHEAD Nox-em'" 9-H _1ftiflft=AM7iwrT--- AK: Hello there gentlemen! After our conversations last week I'm wondering whether this isn't a redundant phone call already. R.S Well, tell us what you got. AK: Tell us what you got. O.K. Can you guys do me a favor? Michael asked that we make a transcript of this so that we can re- cord it or so that we can send it to him } g _:J_J Can you speak up Alex, I can barely hear you. ~ 53 AK: Well, that's exactly what I was going to ask you guys to do because I'm going to make a transcript of this thing for Mr.Kerrj,a benefit and we're not as sophisticated as he is and I'm going to use my little portable mike -1-13 I've got a tape thing if you want me to do it. AK: No. That's alright J 3 I mean I've got a telephone attachment and I'll just send you the transcript. It depends on what you want to do. 1'ha, AK: Oh, that's alright. Why don't you do it *a'then you can check my stuff. Want to do that? 4 JI3 Sure. AK: Sure, what the hell - it doesn't make any difference. How was your Thanksgiving? ~ Alright. ~ S Good. AK: Did you guys have a nice peaceful four day weekend? 25 Yup. ~3 Not peaceful but it was nice. AK: Ha Ha Ha! I love it! Q S Where's Dan? AK: Dan is on his way to Denver on a stand-by flight to meet Mich- ael to have a management review with Judy Brunelli. fS Ah ha' TNWL 0053843

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE TWO ------------------------------------------------- AK: So,I had a long conversation with Dan and he has given me his tentative proxy~ assuming that I don't do anything other than what all four of us talked about last week. R.S Um huh. AK: O.K. Let me get back to our premis and m y basic problem,e&.t I think that what I'm seeing in my problem may well be applicable to future problems that you guys might have. -~'F Can't hear ya. AK: Can't hear me? g No. AK: That any better? J B Yes. AK: O.K. I think the problems that I'm seeing with TAN enrollment records,you guys may start seeing in the very near future, which is why I suggested to Mike that I'm going to come up with some sugges- tions and see if I can't get you people to approve it also. The basic premis issthe TAN enrollment lista that we are getting are very good,a) if you want a nice large Christmas card mailing list and nothing else~ and~b) if you have a state director or an area manager who has done enrolling of the people whose names are on those lists and are therefore familiar with who those names are and what they represent. In other words, what distributing company, what vendor company, what retailer, etc. But, if you get to the position like we are in California whe.re you have got a very, very large number of names and addresses and/or if you get into a posi- tion where someonel is using the list that isn't familiar with how those names got on to the list then there is very little informa- tion on the list right now to identify those people-other than for major company people. Are you with me to this point? 9 s Um huh. AK: O.K. Major companies, obviously/ are tobacco companies. Gbvious- ly we have a*break-down"ee there by Lorillard, Philip Morris, RJR, etc. But once you get into theWsub-categories"or the other cate- gories rather, of tobacco family people: distributors, vendors, and retailers there is no identification on the list other than strictly their SEGf code which says DDI for distributor or RRD for retailer or something of that sort. My suggestions to Bill Cannell are that we will need some sub-break-down of those categories in the near fu- ture.just as we now have a sub-break-down of tobacco company names. With me? ,T? Yea. AK: In other words, right now we've got that "S" code that shows us that it's a selected member company~ and then the next two let- ters represent which individual company it is: PM for Philip Morris.e4c. TNWL 0053844

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE THREE ------------------------------------------------- J'p Why would you need to pull them out separately? AK: Pardon ~ 1 B Why do you need to pull the distributors out separately? AK: O.K. 5(3 I mean by company. AK: O.K. Let me give you two different scenarios for why we might. I've got a local ordinance in the town of Palo Alto in California, 3t's part of the San Francisco Bay area and,because of that,you've got alot of retail company people, you've got alot of distributors, alot of vendorsy all of whom live in all kinds of small little towns around the town of Palo Alto. Some of them may be in Mountai*iew, but actually work within the city of Palo Alto. Some may be in Palo Alto but not work in the city of Palo Alto - that sort of thing. When you are looking for bodies to fight a local ordinance we're looking not only for numbers of people to attend the hearing but ob- viously people who can have some impact with the city councilmen'r- - people who may know their local legislators or whatever it happens to be. If we've got, for example, 10 or 15 different people,all listed as distributors~ but no break-down on which major company they work for.,if they happen to be with a major distributor company, we have no way of knowing which major group to go to to say "hey, could you give us your employee for a half hour or an hour to go in and have a meeting with a local city councilman?" The only way we can do it is to keep a separate list - separate accounting proced- ures for every other enrollee.,other then member company enrollees, in order to do that. "- a ^ •°'° ^~ ^ ^°I° fbr exam- ple,,we've t one distributing company in California where we've got TAN enrollees. Alright? Got another guy whose got .e•-han4re4-.s*d/13 TAN enrollees; another one has 102 TAN enrollees. All three of those are located in Northern California. Now, of those three big ones, all three of their principhls,within the company, are very heavily politically involved - much more so than our member company people are politically involved. And by knowing which company they are with~ we may well have a clue as to which would be the most affective one to go ir~o lobby a local or- dinance situation. In a vendor situation, for example, we may have one company that we know off the top of our head~ o r through our own experience~ has more vending locations in the given community than another one. But if we can't identify which of their people e•rrr li;,e within a given community.we can't identify how to go about finding that particular vendor or the key vendor who may have more weight within a given community. Do you follow? J1 Yea. TNWL 0053845 AK: ~O.K. What I am saying is it would be extremely helpful for me, ~rd Palo Altoy to be able to go to an L.B. Ball, for example, (Eo- pany and say "Hal, I've got twenty of your people that live in Palo Alto - rather than wholesale asking you for all twenty of them to attend a hearing or all twenty of them to go in for a meeting with a local city councilman before the hearing is scheduled can you give

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE FOUR AK: me one or two of your key people/because, this guy we know happens to live in that particular part of the district which happens to be represented by that particular city councilman who happens to be-the one who is ram-rodding the ordinance or the one guy who is supporting our side of the ordinance or whatever it may be. ralloj ,ra i Sure. AK: But we can't do..yC at this point~because all I've got is, at this stage, in Northern-California.I've got a list of about 1500 distributor and vendor people that are north of the Tehachapi Moun- tains. . -9 What's the problem in doing it? AK: The problem in doing it,,really is more what the computer in D.C. can do~ rather then a problem in physically being able to do it. I can't set up a separate system in the state of California that would not be applicable to the other 49 states. Because the computer has to have a standard system in order to ultimately im- plement same programs for other states,asg 3f I look at my Montana list, for examp ~,, or even my states of Oregon and Washington where I've got,~ or ~Ti~r~red enrollees in each state, those numbers have all been enrolled by either myself or John McCulley,,our state dir- ector, srrd When you go through the enrollment process,you go out to the various warehouse companies or warehouses or vending companies or whatever. j/ou pretty well have an idga ofahic ~ple came from which company. But once you get past ^r X or the num- bers become so overwhelming that you just can't remember and iden- tify where those people came from. If we ever get any turnover in our state directors and we have a new state director come in and inherit an enrollment list, even a list of 200, he's not going to know where they came from. Because he or she won't have been in- volved in enrolling them. QS So what has to be done to get them to change this procedure? il AK: I really don't want to change anything. What I want,~to go back to Cannel~and Yenowine with ieh take the distributor break- down for example on that SEC cocfe... RS Yea. AK: I want to be able to say, rather then't DDII/ for every distributor, give us the flexibility for me to come in and say "Bill, this par- ticular enrollee on the SEC code ought to be listed as DLB", for ex- ample, meaning in my language "D" for distributor and "LB" represent- ing L.B. Ball Company or DRW "D" for distributor "RW" for Royal Whole- sale. All right? J13 In other words, they're not going to use the "SEC" code anymore? AK: Pardon? I beg your pardon? TNWL 0053846 Jj3 There is a memo dated the 9th from Cannei/. On the second zrfd

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - november 26, 19'9 continued PAGE FIVE ------------------------------------------------- f 1- third page~I says "the SEC code is for internal use and will not appear on futureprintouts." AK: Yea. I'nr sitting here staring at that too and brought that up with CannelJ~and he suggested that was what their original de- cision was and they're now beginning to think that they're going to have run it in every printout. The reason for that is if we don't have it.,then we are going to lose information on the regular printouts that we now have. We won't even know what company people are enrollees or what companies our enrollees are with. In other words, if they don't use the SPM (I'm looking at a Montana list right now and I just happened to see a PM member) if they don't use that SEC code and all they give me is a name and address then I'm not even going to know that they are a company person, if they don't use that SEC code. ~ S Alright. Now, what has to be done? AK: All I need to do is go back to CanneIl and say, "In the event other states get so many enrollees that they want the same kind of break-downs that I need now in California,can we establish a system by which they can do it, ultimately? And that would be~~ xhe kind of thing,where if I'm looking at a list of TAN enrollees f~ I've got six major wholesalers in the state of California who7. have more than 50 numbers - 50 TAN enrollees each,, Sw come up with an arbitrary decision that says any company that I've got that's over 50 enrol- lees may I establish a sub-SEC code that gives me a clue as to what company they're with,,~~py distributor that has fewer than 50 enrol- lees/the hell with it~We'll do the same thing as we do on the com- panies and we'll list them as"other,"so__,lt would come out as a DOT, for example, as"distributor othe;'a" ihat would, instead of having to have a separate code for every little rinky-dink wholesaler in the state of California that may have 10 or 15 employees, I could lump those into an"oth~~category,jaut the major ones I would be able to break~just as we now do the major company people. ~S Ok, Alex, Bill Cannell's comment to J1 you is,1we can do it,as long as everybody in the field agrees on the system that we use. AK: Exactly. K S O.K. What is your recommendation on the system? AK: My recommendation is that you guys give me the opportunity to do this/and I don't think it's going to impact on you at this point. -K.0 But it could be helpful down the road? AK: I think, down the road, it is going to be extremely helpful. Either in the event that you have turn-over in your state directors, or in the event that we break out beyond the TAN family and we start to get in to grocers and other retailers and associated organiza- tions,where we have a great volume of enrollees - more than what we now have - and you guys start getting into the kinds of numbers that I've got now in California. I've got 6600 names on a list in Cal- ifornia. You know,-,iW&w that's just damn near overwhelming! You TNWL 0053847

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE SIX AK: can't even use the list. You follow? The only way that I could use that list,,specifically,right now is to go back to Can nell and ask for a separate, special print-out that shows all the historical information that was originally programed into the very first list when the TAN cards first started going in. Aat& That stuff is stored in the computers, has all of the legislative dis- trict numbers and names~ and whatever,but it doesn't come up on the current list,because they're printing current lists to fit standard information all over the country. And,if I go back for a separate print-out I may get luckyg-they may not be do~~'n,,~,anything with the computer, and I may get it in a day or two.u A3glit now~f I'm trying to get rid of all my Action/Alert Kits in California - she's got four thousand of them sitting in her office. And because of the Californians for Common Sense list, which is that old Prop. 5 thing from 1978, we are concerned that there may be alot of people on the CCS list which was converted into TAN enrollees that may well be Lung Association people, may well be the Prop. S proponents, lut we can't identify them at this point because of generalized-type codes that they're using on the current lists,ait Kelley's concern is that if we just do a mass mailing to all these 6,000 people or 4,000 people that are non-company people~ that we may be sending some of our printed materials to people that really shouldn't be getting them. Follow? ~ Um huh. AK: I have no way of knowing who those people are and without a better list I can't even start to send those Action/Alert Kits. ~ You don't have transfer sheets? AK: Well~ yes, $ut when you're dealing with 6,000 of them I'm going to need two more secretaries in that office just to go through the transfer sheets. 0.K? Now, I can go back and get a separate print- out - a special print-out - that shows all CCS list information, and all of the original information when they first came in on the tran- sfer sheet~, $ut,because of this particular time of the month, this being the 26th, they are cutting their end of November lists right now~ .So that we, b~y ~e first week of December (their goal is the 3rd of December '~t~ing November TAN enrollee print-out. Now, once they're through with that,they then are going into a prepar- ation for another coordinators meeting which is on the 13th of Dec- ember. And they're starting to cut ot~ier lists for the company people that show where our enrollees are, that show Project ENTER enrollees, as well as our current enrollees as well as stuff they need for the corporate coordinators meeting. The end result of my tale of woe is that I can't get a special print-out out of the com- putor until~at least the 15th of December. By that time,I'm into a ten-day turn-around for mailin those things,if I want to get them out by the end of the year.~o the horror story becomes, if you have got a political problem~ rather then just Action/Alert Kits; if you've got a political problem and you need a special print-out you may get lucky and be able to get it within a day or two or you may end up in a situation like they have right now where I can't even dream of getting computor time'till two weeks from now. Follow? By that time you could have a local ordinance passed. So I'm hoping TNWL 0053848

a AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE SEVEN AK: that these regular lists will just automatically give us more information. -TR Yea, but Tvhat's the problem with doing this? I mean why? I don't see any problem that would ... AK: The only problem is, is that I'm coming up with something that is going to be unique for California at this stage and Cannell just wants to know that whatever we suggest for California will be some- thing that will be applicable and usable for other states,So he wanted me to make sure ... S'U But it won't be usable. Well, it will be for one cqr~~y, but I don't have any distributors in my area~ except Eli Witt,~have more than 50 employees. AK Right. That's why I'm sayin I don't think that it's going to impact you guys at this point,§ut I do think if we go beyond where we currently are with just enrolling tobacco family people, and you guys get into some massive volume-type numbers,then I think you're going to start finding the same problem I do with lists that are two and three and four thousand names long, and wondering where the hell they are,..and who they are. I've got a print-out from Cal- ifornia now.that's two inches thick. You start trying to identify individuals within that list,it's almost impossible. See? That's why I'm saying right now I'm facing a problem in California that down road. Another problem we may well all be facing ultimately is.if you split a state,wtich Alverson is going to do in Texas~ and they're going to do in California we end up trying to divide that list of 6,000 eople amongst a new state director and an old state director,a~ ~hat new guy is going to come in and that list is go- ing to be absolutely unusable to him because he's not going to know where those people are or how they came in or what to do with them. All it shows is the same stuff that you've all got on your lists - with a general SEC code and then a redundant primary code after it. In the distributor, vendor or retailer categoriesall all it is is a redundant list. It shows DDI for distributor, for example; DFL for distributor Florida or DNY or whatever you guys are using there. DCA, all it shows is that they're in California - well hell, if I've got a California address I know it's a California distributor. J'13 What do you need from us? AK: I need some kind of agreement that I'm not going to screw you up by asking for this. y~ No. That isn't going to screw me up at all. R1 Not going to screw me up at all. AK: Alright. j3 I wish I had distributors with over SO employees. TNWL 0053849 AK: Yea. I wish I had them up in these states too. Our second problem is~ we have always thought thatsultimately these lists,

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE EIGHT AK: would show us"balls outNpolitical information: congressional districts, state senate districts, house of reps districts or ass- embly districts or whatever you call them. And they're not print- ing those up-on the compute~'e1Mis,~s, either. Now, according to Can- nell they can adjust the fgen$'~ for that list,,any which way we wanZ But it has to have enough space for those kinds of numbers. I'm suggesting to him that,in addition to a break-down for indi- vidual TAN family categories (distributors, retailers, vendors), that they also start providing us with congressional district, state senate district and assembly or state house district numbers. O.K? Now, I talked to Danr- he's got a couple of problems in Texas and you mentioned, Ric, that you've got some problems in New York where you need more than a two-digit or two-digit identification of your as- sembly districts. RS: Right. AK: So, what I would like to suggest to Cannell is that he come up with a nine digit code that would give us those three district numbers. And that would give us a further political break-down of where these people are. For example: 001 would represent the first congressional district.or if you happen to have 45 congres- sional districts like in California 045 would be the 45th congres- sional district. O.K? SD Um huh. AK: The second set of three digits would represent the state sen- .ate district number,or 040 for the 40th senate district~and then your assembly district 048 or 0551,or whatever it happens to be;and, then,in the situation like you've got in New Hampshire or in New York where you've got more than two digit numbers for the district numbers,,that would be where the third digit would be used. -.1 'D Um huh. AK: For 1 2 for example in the last three digits, would be the 1 aa}~f assembly district. I'm just picking numbers out of the air. 73T Now, the only way that be put into the system, though, is for the state director to provide that on transfer sheets, right? AK: You've got it. ::1-5 O.K. TNWL 0053850 AK: O.K.s ~ow, in my states/almost all of the transfer sheets have gone in with that information. Now, in Project ENTER, for time pur- poses, we have not done it. We have just sent in the top six lines, and on the transfer sheet it shows"no answer"for everything below those top six lines. We are going to have to go back and fill out those and send in changes,,but it's not going to be any major con- version problem for you guys at this stage~unless you feel you need it,and if you feel you need it,as long as those nine digits are a- vailable to you,you can send in transfer sheets on new enrollees and

AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE NINE ------------------- ----------------------------- 9J PC AK: include the legislative district numbers, ®r if you have al- ready sent in legislative district numbers on ydur transfer sheets Cannell assures me that, that is.in fact, in the computor. But they just don't print it up. So what we need is to find a system where it can come out on the print out,End,,,they have more than one line in those enrollee lists available. They are only using one line right now except for addresses. If you guys have got an enrollment list near by, for example, as you read across the page your first set of five digits is obviously the zip code,,then they get into a three letter designation for the first three letters of the last name and then a 1 or a 2 or a 3 designating which entry it was. Those are apparently necessary for the computor to be able to pull things by zip code. O.K? But, then you get into the name col- um ; if you happen to have somebody who has like~ John Doe/235 Cen- tral Avenue/Billings, Montana - the name John Doe is going to ap- pear in the second column, 235 Central Avenue in the third column, Billings, Montana in the forth column - O.K? But, if John Doe has an apartment number,,then John Doe's name will appear in the second column, the apartment number in the third and then the 235 Central Avenue will switch back and be a second line down underneath the name in the second column. Alright? Which shows that the computor can use a second line. Now, what I'm suggesting to Cannell,is that they tell us mechanically how they need to print out the district numbers.and if it's necessary ,, use a second line~ whether it be under the zip code, whether it be way over underneath SEC codes or whether it be under the TAN I.D. number - I don't really care. I~'just want to see it somewhere.a -Tt could be down under the city name - in the city column which may be an easier way to read it~ becuase that way you'd have Yletters designating the city,like Billings, Montana,,and .then a series of numbers down under the;e.,4nd the numbers and the letters are not going to get confusing,~if they print a second line of num, e~rS under the TAN I.D. number or under the zip code number - maybe4-w"would be a little difficult to read. But if they've got the second line available,,then let's use it~ and let's give us those legislative district numbers. That's what I'm asking Cannell for., and he can tell us mechanically how to do it - I don't care where they put it. 2 S Well, Alex, I think it's a good idea. How are you going to propose it? Are you just going to send a memo saying we've all a- greed to it? AK: Well, that's what Cannell suggested/and my whole intent with this whole call and discussion with Mike last week,was that if I'm not going to dd anything that messes you guys up~then I'll go ahead and take the monkey on my back and suggest to him these two changes. We want to have the district numbers and we want to have a break- down,and we've all discussed it and at least at this stage/ it's not going to screw anybody up,a.nd-Ete suggestionp for the nine digit code is a reflection of the fact that some states have more district numbers than what I'm familar with out here,So instead of going for six digits we need nine digits - that sort of thing. So,that at least, it shows t~at we've all discussed it. Now, beyond that~the whole intent is just to get something there on paper~ in time for our meet- ing next weekJecause~at this stage~ Cannell was going to take an hour, I think on Wednesday or Thursday - whatever it was, of next week and just talk in general about the computor lists,s_w&drxa :Cf we

~ AHK CONFERENCE CALL - November 26, 1979 continued PAGE TEN -------------------------------------------------- AK: all start talking about "hey, we've got this problem and we've got that problem" then it's going to turn into one big massive~ con- fusing conversation and we're going to spend sixty minutes not re- solving anything. /So, if I've got something in there/that he can start dealing-with,,then at least it gives us a basis on which to start a discussion. e 5 Fine. AK: That alright with you? Sure. S~ AK: Any further comment, objections? ,fp No. AK: The only other thing Mike did is he this to a half an hour. l` S sp O.K. Hope so. AK: O.K. A^Jm n.e pro..,.,'ti(3 r) p*e*i-ged-me that we'd hold J 13 Is time up? % AK: AK: Good! A ht, we're throug}~tirith t~tat one altd'we will turn off the ta~e ~ 1~, AK: SN: We've got abou r 5 minutes we psfi play with. Let talk abolrt our favorite subject. ~ Safidy, turn off e t~ap`6. Turn off the tapei Turn off the,,eape. i I'm turh~d g if off. AK: She yGst tu3ned it off % X TNWL 0053852