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ORAL HISTORY IN-fERVIEW with DAVID MUSIAL July 25, 1986 at editChicago Chicago, Illinois By Scott Ellsworth Abstracted by Vanessa Broussard For the Marlboro Oral History Project INTERVIEW #28 Archives Center National Museumof American History Smithsonian Institution TAPE ABSTRACT AND INDEX

DAVID MUSIAL BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH In the advertising business since 1962, David Musial was a producer for Leo Burnett, Inc. at the time of the interview. SCOPE AND CONTENT NOTE The interview focuses on Musial's experiences in the advertising industry. Major topics include: advertising campaigns for companies such as Anheuser-Busch Company, Inc. and McDonald's; the co~ercical "Cowboy Dreams"; competition with other cigarette companies; international advertisements; and the belief in authenticity. The interview was conducted at editChicago, in Chicago, Illinois.

MUSIAL ABSTRACT page 2 Abstract of interview with David Musial, July 25, edit Chicago, Chicago, Illinois Interviewer: Scott Ellsworth 1986 .Tape i, Side 1 :3O 2:00 2:35 3:10 4:25 BACKGROUND INFORMATION Musial graduated from Indiana University where he majored in fine arts. He went into advertising in 1962 after getting out of the Army. He worked for BBDO in the paste up department because that was the~only experience he had. Later he moved into the art department where he worked with Phil Dusenberry. Musial moved to Norman, Craig & Connelly, where he did storyboards and art directing. He became frustrated because he wanted to do production work. He switched over to becoming an assistant producer and worked for Jim McKerworth, who works for Leo Burnett now. Musial has been a producer for eighteen years. He has been at Leo Burnett for about four years. Prior to this he worked for Needham, Harper & Steers as an art director and producer, but mainly as a producer. Musial worked on the Busch beer account about four years. He did McDonald's for about five years at Needham. Needham wanted to do the West for Busch beer like Marlboro did. 5:45 DISCUSSION OF MARLBORO ACCOUNT Musial enjoys going out to the West and working with cowboys like Darrell Winfield.

MUSIAL ABSTRAC9 page 3 5:50 7:10 The account group always likes to come up with a story for each con~nerical. Musial states that it is hard to come up with new themes for Marlboro advertisements but he did not think that anyone wants to change the campaign. 8:20 8:55 10:30 11:05 12:25 SIGNIFICANCE OF "COWBOY DREAMS" COMMERICAL "Cowboy Dreams" is different because it does not use the theme from "The Magnificent Seven". Musial hopes that Marlboro won't change. The account group has trained good people like Kenny Carter. He hopes that Norm Muse will stay involved. Norm knows what the West is. He is the voice and when he speaks people listen. CONCERN ABOUT COMPETITION Musial states that there is no concern about competitive matters. He strives to make his work excellent. Camel cigarette advertising is interesting because the model that they ended up with is a mix between Darrell Winfield and Larry Bird. He is also a former Marlboro cowboy. [Bob Beck] There is no cattle in "Cowboy Dreams" because a lot of countries view cows as being dirty. In Asia ads are not run with cattle. The account group favors using horses.

MUSIAL ABSTRACT page 4 13:20 15:00 15:25 16:10 17:30 22:40 24:30 24:45 DISCUSSION OF INTERNATIONAL ADVERTISING In France they can't show cigarette smoking so when they do co~mericals they show cigarette lighters. In some countries they can't show cigarettes; in others, cowboys can appear to light the cigarette but it can't be actually lit. The Marlboro account group always avoids exhaling. The red shirt was heavily favored in Germany ten or fifteen years ago. It is used as a symbol of Marlboro cigarettes. The account group has gone from using new hats to using worn hats, to make the ad look more realistic. Musial tries to be true to the West and show it in a realistic manner as opposed to a fairy tale version. Musial does not think that any American wants the West to die. The cowboys in "Cowboy Dreams" were not given any instructions before the shoot. They wanted the guys to be real and let their personalities show through.

MUSIAL ABSTRACT page 5 DAVID MUSIAL INDEX OF ABSTRACT--INTERVIEW #28 Authenticity 28:1:1, 22:40 BBDO (ad agency) 28:1:1, :30 .Beck, Bob 28:1:1, 11:05 Bird, Larry 28:1:1, 11:05 Busch Beer 28:1:1, 3:10 Camel cigarette 28:1:1, 11:05 Carter, Kenny 28:1:1 8:55 Cattle 28:1:1, 12:25 Cigarette lighters 28:1:1, 13:20 "Cowboy Dreams" commerical 28:1:1. 8:20 Dusenberry, Phil 28:1:1, :30 Hats 28:1:1, 17:30 Horses 28:1:1, 12:25 International advertising 28:1:1, 13:20 Asia 28:1:1, 12:25 France 28:1:1, 13:20 Germany 28:1:1, 16:10 McDonald's 28:1:1, 3:10 Muse, Norman 28:1:1, 8:55 Needham, Harper & Steers (ad agency) 28:1:1, 2:35 Norman, Craig, & Connelly (ad agency) 28:1:1, 2:00 Producer 28:1:1, 2:35 Shirt 28:1:1, 16:10 Smoke in ads 28:1:1, 13:20 "The Magnificent Seven" theme music The West 28:1:1, 22:40 Winfield, Darrell 28:1:1, 5:45 28:1:i, 8:20

NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AMEI~,ICAN l--I 1 S "1" () 1~, Y DEED OF CONVEYANCE Archives Center National Museum of American History Smithsonian Institution permission to the Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution, to make this recording of history available for use by historians, scholars, and others authorized by the Archives Center under the general arcI~iva] procedures employed by the Archives Center. This conveyance is subject to the conditions written below, ~f any. Signed Date Interviewer Archivist