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Radio Reports, 16 \VE~T 46Ih STREET NE\V YORK 36, N, Y. COL~.~SWS 5-7630 Texts of B,o,adcasls HILL AND KNOWLTON, INC. December 13, 1959 FULL TEXT Open End at i0:00 P.M. ~ver WNTA-TV (Newark, N.J.): THE SCREEN SHOWED THE PARTICIPANTS SEATED IN THE STUDIO. ANNOUNCER: "Good evenir~, and welcome to Open End, the award w!nnin~ discussion program, brou~t to you b~ Sutro Brothers and Company, members of the New York Stock Exchange." (Theme music) DAVID SUSSKIND: "Good evenln~, and welcome to Open End° My name is David Suss~ind. Tonight oum subject is, 'The Power of Public Relations.' We intend to examine this great new phenomenon on the American scene which galvanizes, enerAizes, cajoles an~ persuades the American people into all manner of opinions and atti- tudes. We want to examine the who, why, what, when of public relations. "A recent news ma£azine said this about public relations: ~Ubiquitous and often invisible, mali£ned and self-doubti~, the public relations man has woven himself into the nation's economic, political and social fabric. He may be a cynical space-~rabber, out to publicize some movie starlet, a plotting plugger of some company's products, or a ~ouble-domed thinker adviain~ a top level client on community or stockholder relations. Whatever his temperament or his talents, private companies, associations, churches, unions, political parties and celebrities pay these people two billion dollars a year for their services.' The~ did last ~ear, and they'll pay even more this year. TIFL 0521429 CONFIDENTIAL TMDA 2004280 Los Angeles " New Eno[~ncl • ,\'eu' York " Phdadelph~a " San Francisco

-2- "Ou~ ~uests a~e top practitioners o~ public relations. Two of them are public relations experts. One was formerl~ a public relations or press relations advisor to the President of the United States. And our fourth £ueet has written a book about public relations. And I~d like ~ou to meet them now. "Ou~ f~ret ~ueat, ~r. Edwar~ L. Berne, s, is one of the founders of modern public relations, and the man who created the designation, 'public relations counsel.' He is a newphew of Si~mund Freud; Mrs Berne, s began his c~.~er as a ~iter for Woodrow ~ilaon's Creel Co~ittee on public information ~i~ '.'orld War I. Since ~at t~e, ~. ~rnays ~a done public ~lati~ns for a~ost eve~ business and product in existence. ~. ~r~ys is also ~e au~or of n~erous books and articles on ~e subject. "Our next Luest, Mr. I~wln Ross, is on the staff of the New York Post; an~ he is the author of the recently-publlshed book, 'The Lma~e Merchants,' a survey and study of the public relations business. A ~rsduate of Harvard, Mr. Ross is also the author of 'Strategy for Liberals,~ an~ is a frequ,nt contributor to The Reader's Digest, H~rper°s and other national ma&azlnes. "Our next ~uest, Mr. Rod~er Tubby, ia presently co-publisher ~nd editor of the Adirondac~ Daily Enterprise, an~ a member of the faculty of Paul Smith Colle~e, where~he teaches public relations. A ~raduate of the London School of Econ~mlcs, Mr. Tubby was formerly press secretary to President Harry Truman, an~ press officer ~f the State Department from 19~5 to 1949. Mr. Tubby was also personal assistant to Adlai Stevenson du~in~ the 1952 Presidential campaign. "Our last £uest, Mr. ~'illiam Rudeb, is chairman of the b~ard of Ruder and Finn. Twelve ~ears a~o it was a two-man operation; to.day it is the third lar£est public relations firm in the country, with affiliates in more than 40 countries, includln~ Rusala. Prior to or~anizir~ his own comp~n~, Mr. Ruder was director of exploitation for Samuel ~oldwyn Productions. "We'll Join our ~ests in Just a moment, after this message. " SUS~RKIND: *'~entlemen, thank ~ou for bein~ with us tonight on Open End, because this discussion of public relations is one we've ~et to enter upon; and I thin~ it's reall~ important in American TIFL 0521430 TMDA 2004281

cultur~ today. I want to start, F~. Ross, b~ asking you this, because you've Just completed a surve~ which restulted in a book called, 'The Zma£e Merchants.' You've studied public relations in America. What is your basic estimate of public relations, what it is and what it's worth." ROSS: "Well, I've frequentl~ been asked whether it's a good thin& or a bad think. I would suggest it's an ineviSable thing, as a consequence of the complexit~ ~f communication in ou~ society. I thln~ it's &cod and bad. It's perhaps more provocative at the outset of a discussion to indicate one's disagreements rathen than one's feeling, s of approbation. ~ would sa~ the pretentiousness of public relations practitioners has annoyed me for a long time. The~ tal~ of this as a profession° It's not a profession, an~ more than mane is, the newspaper business. It's a business. It's a craft. It's a useful service. "The~ tal~ of public service activities of the clients. This is frequentl~ cant. Every operative in the market place of public opinion thin~s of the public service value of what they're saying. These are private ~eaders. I'm all for private pleaders. Public service is somethin~ else. And at times the public service activi- ties, or results of the public relations activities coincide really with the public service. ~ut this is coincident~l rather than con- sequential to the activitlea. "I would sa~ that without public relations, on the other hand, we would be bac~ in the position of 50 or 60 ~ears ago, where a reporter had vainl~ to knock on the ~ates of a corporation to get admitted, and to ~et a little bit of a, piece of news; and that would be bad. "The ~n~ormational activities in short--Z've spoken too l~ng already--of public ~elations, Z would think, are hlg~hly ~seful. The pretentions, the rhet~ic, the nonesense, as a newspaper reporter, ~ do deplore." ~RNAYS: "Z'd li~e to tal~ to that, if I might. Z feel that in an~ discussion of this ~ind, the first thing one should d~ is to define one's term. Let us, as a start, define what ~,Ablic relations is. To me, public relations is that field of activity which deals with the relations of an institution, a man, an organi- zation with the publics upon which that individual or organization is dependent. TIFL 0521431 TMDA 2004282

"As F~r. Ross has said, llfe has become so complex that today a societal technician is needed to advise a client or an individual, cr &Toup, on how to deal with the public. What It means is that the i~,divldual who does the advisln~ must apply whatever ~'nowledEe there is in the social sciences about adjustment, a~ut In~ormatlon as a basis for understandln~, ar~ about ~ersuasion, which is one of the basic elements of a competitive society. "If we accept that, then we can go one step further, an~ say that Just as any other vocation, it can be abused, Just aa medicine can be abused, or law can be abused. BUt it is a profession." ROSS: "WhN is it a profession, Mr. Bernaya?" BERNAYS: "Well, let me Just tell you why." ROSS: "I~m waiti~ for this." ~P~NAYS: "A profession, by definition, is a vocation in ~hich an ~rt is applied to a science, and in which peccary motivation is not the basic consideration." ROSS: "But isn't pecuniary motivation the basic consideration in public relatigns?" B~NAYS: SNot--no more--with a £oo~ public reAations man, it is ne more the consideration than it is with a ~ood doctor, or a good law~er, or a ~ood architect, or a ~ood engineer. Now there ~re men who abuse the profession..." ROSS: "B~ bein~ Interested in money?" EERNAYS: "No, not only by bein~ interested in money, but by actin~ in a way that is based on their self-lnterest, an~ that alone, and not on the public interest. BUt if ~ou, by definition, ta~e the definition of 'profession,' public relations is a profession as practiced by some of the practitioners Just as medicine is a profession or law is a profession. Ar~ yet I know of shyster law~ers, an~ I ~now that there are abortionists a.mo~ medical men; but when I discuss medicine, ~ do not discuss the deviates, but ~ discuss the broad pattern which is the ideal of the ~rofeaslon." T31DA 2004283

-5- RUDER: "You see, well, I don't consider myself either a shyster public relations counsel, or an abortionist public relations counsel; but I don't consider m~self a member of a profession. I look at the work I do as a craft and a skill. I hope to make money at it. I don't disrelate what I do to making mone~. I want to run a successful business. And I do look at it as a business. And, as a matter of fact, I thin~ I have an obli- gation to myself, m~ famil~, and all the pe3ple who wor~ with us to operate a successful business. And there's so much tal~ in the public relationa--I almost said profession..." ~ERNAYS: "You can say it." RUDER : ".. . about..." E~RNAYS: "With impunity, I hope." RUDER: "...about are we a profession, or aren't we a profes- si:.n; and to me it's Kind of like how manj angels dance on the head of a pin. Even if I were to ~now, I~m n~t quite sure that it's material. And comir~ back to Irwln's point, of the pretentiousness Of Ottro.. ~ERNAYS: "WeLl ~ ~ ~m~ doctors are pretentious, as a profession, or-law~ers?" RUDER : "Oh no." ~RNAYS: "It isn't a~ter of pretentiousness; it i8 a matter of dlfferentiatin~ between functlonln~ within the law an~ on the profit motive alone, an~ functlonin~ as other pro~essio~ do. N~ if ~ou studied ~ histo~ of professions, ~ou would ~ow ~at ~ professions ~ve on17 developed recentl~. ~e legal profession is, possibl~, ~e oldest. ~e ~dlcal profession has o~7 d~elo~d reall~ in ~la cent~7, in which certain standards of c~duct ~ve been e~o~ced in the case of medic~e, by ~e state." SUSSEI'R~: "Mr. Berne,s, why a~e you so self-consclous about the description of your business? Why need it be a ~rofession? Would you ~ equall~ happ~ to have it described as an occupation, Or... ROSS: "It's because Mr. Bernays is not interested in money. You see, on the basis of a lack of pecuniary recompense, Journalism is a profession, because we're paid less than anybod~ else. TIFL 0521433 T3IDA 2004284

-6- TUBBY: "Well, I~wln, I think mapbe you're being a little bit too tart with NL~. BernaTs. I thin~ a point that hs made earlier., o" ~ERNAYS: "Sweet-ta~t, call it." TUBBY: "Alri~ht, sweet-tart--is £ermane to ~his, ~ho.t I think a &ood public relations man--sure he wants to be paid--but I think above all-oI~ll get into t~he question of semantics, what is s good public relations man?--but a... EERNAYS: "A sociall7 sound public relations man." TUBBY: "...a good public relations man wants to do his Job as well as he ~nows how, whatever he £ets paid." ROSS: "Granted, granted." TUBBY: "Whethe~ i~'s ~,000 ~ ~e~ o~ $50,000 a 7e~." ROSS : "qui~e." T~: "And I think t~t a ~ood public ~elations ~ ~ill ver~ caref~ no~ to sell a p~oduct t~t is false, o~ that he to be false o~ phoneT, o~ an idea,.." R0~S: "Well ~at's not quite ~e po~t, Rod~er, altho~ ~t's ve~ relevant." T~: ~es." ROSS: "~ point Is, ~t is ~ value of usi~ the te~ 'profession?' Now normally, to ~ a mem~r of a profession meant ~at you ~de~ent a rigorous co~ae of traini~--~ had ~to pass exami~tlons, ~ou ~d to set cert~ication by some agency of ~e state; and ~en ~ou ~d to a~e~ to a ra~r ~rrowl~-~ef~ed code of e~ics, al~o~ Lord ~ows, ~n~ people ~i~'t adhere to them; ~t if they were cut off, t~y could be cut out. "N~ I'm not s~est~ t~t public relatlo~ ~n ~e not ethical. Ma~ of--most of them, I'd certai~ concede, ~e e~ical. I'm Just talki~ to the point of--and I think it;s a a~ll point, and per~ps we shoed Eet ~yond it--as to w~ we have to call a profession. ~t's all. R~: "Well I a£rn,, Z don't..." TIFL 0521434 TMDA 2004285

-7- EERNAYS: "Well I thln~, I thln~.o." RUIneR: "I think it is a small point. me anln~fulne e s." I don' t understand its HERNAYS: "I think it's a very Lm~ortant point, because if we don:t start in with the assumption that it is a profession, ~ that Indlviduals--some individuals--practice it as a profession, then we @st into a situation where anyth~n6 that is within the law I, ROSS: "I don't see that at all. Can't ~ou be ethical and still be a member of a craft or s business? Can't buslneasmen be ethical?" SUSSKIND: "Coul~n't we for purposes of ~r. Berna~e's security and comfort for tonight assume that public relations Is a profession?" EERNAYS: scientists." "It has been called a profession by the social SUSSKII~D: "And .could we ~o on to this deeper issue which is in m~ mind, this: I have the feelin~ that the American populace is ~ind of an amorphous Jell~, to be moulded by this new profession into specific attitudes, shapes, opinions. Mr. Bernays has called It-- public relations-- ' the en~ineerin~ of consent,' a ioft~ phrase that would do credit to ~Arvard's Graduate School. But doesn't it reall~ come down to the fact that 7ou fellows are in the business of our opinions." ROSS: "Include me out. I'm not in this; I'm a newspaperman." (Several spo~e slmultane~usly) SUSSKI~D: "Now let me give F~u a specific, if I maT. I'm much disturbed about this, for example. When the cancer question broke full force on the tobacco indust~, the public relations counsel, New York's Hill and Knowlton Company, representing the top tobacco companies, su~es~ed orsanlzln~ a tobacco In~uatr~ research committee ~f independent scientists to demonstrate that tobacco men too were interested in the health problem. Result: the c~mmittee has since acted as the most effective advocate ~or the case that there is no conclusive proof of a cancer-cigarette ¢onnectlon. "Now, in other words, despite our Surgeon-General, and despite the reports of England's public health offices, and so forth, a 2004286

-8- ~roup of public relations men Eot to the tobacco companies, and said what you chaps should do is organize a counter-m~vement. As a consequence, the American public is considerably befuddled on what I think is a terribly fundamental issue: the cause and effect relationship of smokln~ and lung cancer. TUBEY: "Well, Dave, may I say a point on that, that you had, in the question of fluoridation of water, you had some doctors or&snized against fluoridation. You've had lawyers, of course, takin~ opposite views on ether controversial Issues. "I think that--you suggested we talk tonight about the p~wer of public relatlone-~and I think there's no question but what the point you ma~e there is valid, that public relations can be used in an unfort-n~-te way from the etandpolnt of maw people in ottr c oun~ry." SUSSKIND: "Would you reEard that as an unfortunate instance of public relations?" TUBBY: "I would." ROSS: "Irou wouldn' t? I would." TUBBY: "I w~ould too. We've seen it used most effectively where you've had no chance to challen~e it. In Russia, in Nazi Germany, where the public is exposed only to one point of view. Here we can often challen~e thin~s of this kind. We're getting a challenge on the dru~ industry; McCarthy was challenged; maw of the thi~s that have been said by ~overnment have been challenged and tested. So that we have a certain cont'rol outside the industry itself. "But I still think that most responsible public relations people--whatever you call them, whether the~'re in a trad~ or a profession--do seek to tell the truth. "Ivy Lee, whom you Wn~w, in 1904 when he was working for the anthracite Industry, said, we aim to be accttrate, we aim to get the information out as it happens. And I think this is basically,what a good public relations man does, or should try to do anyway. SUS~KIND: "But the ~ood public relations man is often hard to see in the woods of bad public relations men. Now you brought up McCarth~ for a moment. D~rln~ the crest of the McCarthy TIFL 0521436 T3IDA 2004287

-9- witchhuntin~, somebody, a public relations advisor, must have advised the administration, as a consequence of holdln~ his finger u~ to the public wind, that this was not the time to chalien~ie McCarthy, this was the time to appease him, compromise with him, lay low, or somethln~. "Now recentl~ a ~overnor of New York made t~e mlsta~e of say- in& publicly that his polls--he would be ~overned in whether or not to p~rsue th, presidency by what the polls told him. ~he polls are another public relations counsel. Now isn't Sb~t a pernicious influence ?" BERNAYS: "Wall now that to me, sir, would ~e the abuse of public relations rather than the use of it. In any vocation or field of activity today you can get social uses or you can get social abuses. "One of the reasons wh~ I am so keen about ma~ing a profession of public relations is to insure through state sanctions, licensing, re&ist~ations, examinations, an~ the li~e. ~he fact that at least the men who call themselves counsels on public relations will have certain standards of conduct that they may break, but that at least are validated by the state, Just as happens with a lawyer and with a doctor. "M~" feelin~ is that wha~ you were tal~in~ about is not ~ood public Pelations; ~ou're tal~Ing about the abuse of public relations. Demagogues have abused the public. Leaders that were anti-social have abused the public, from Hitler down to the Syrlan--the Assyrian dema~oEues. , "I thin~ that in a subject li~e this, one woul~ have to decide whether one is discussing the subject in terms of the practitioners who have a social ethic or consciousness, an~ the practitioners who abuse it. I would sa~ that since it is a tool that anyboc~ can use, without an~ sanction, it is subject to a ~reat deal of abuse, Just as in the point that you have made." SUSS~IND: "Could I Just call a momentar~ pause while we have a message fr~n ou~ sponsor." TIFL 0fi2143 TMDA 2004288

-i0- SUSSKIND: "Is the 8j-~wth of public relations in cure country ~edlately related, as I suspect it is, to the growth of bi£ness everywhere in our country?" ROSS: "Could I sa~ a word, because I was aware the commercial was comin6 on, and I couldn't answer Mr. Bernaya..." ~EKNAYS: "Are we on?" SUSSKIND: "Yes, we're on." ~%NAYS: "Oh." ROSS: "...M~. Bernays' very eloquent peroration. I think the problem, basicall~, is this, m~ friend. There is no easily veri- fiable truth to which public relations men, ~r lesser mortals like Journalists can devote themselves. There ~re many truths, there are many contenders in the arena of public opinion. This is quite different, to have a fractional view of the truth than to be engaged in a conscious distortion of the truth, which unscrupulous an~ unethical practitloners--none of whom are represented here tonig~ht-- do on occasion indulge in. I think this is a basic fallacy; you can't re£ister public relations men who are ethical, an~ who will then tell the truth, an~ the unethical ones may not tell the truth. "Basicall~, this is a society in which there are continual conflicts. Take the steel strike. Who was tellln6 the truth, the public relations operatives for the United Steel Workers, or Hill and Enowlton which represents the steel industry? N~w I think Hill and Enowlton is an ethical flrm--~I happen to disagree with their view of the steel controversy. They're putting out different-- varying, not var~In~, c~mpletel~ antithetical polnts--In theLr propaganda daily. "I think you do a disservice to the whole field of public relations by suggesting that ethics is consonant with truth, as if truth was readily discoverable in Mr. Bernays's office on 6~th Street. Now, havln~ said that, then you can devote yourself to the really unethical practices. This is nothing to do with professionalism. " BERNAYS: "Can I--can I tal~..." RU~ER: "The difficulty that I find here is that in accepting both of your points, that it's awfully difficult to~et an absolute in terms of truth, but at the same time we want to be ethlcal--and TIFL 0521438 T IDA 2004289