Tobacco Documents Online

. y stated that perhaps a method of priorities-could be worked out to fill existing gaps in knowledge. Mr. Cullman stated the governm--nt is spending money in aL-_t,ac.'r.ing the industry and the industry is spending money in attacking the posi- tion of the government and that it would be better to spend these funds on.research. F The Secretary said that in'connection with preparing the proposed budget of HEW, it would be helpful to have a specification of the areas of gaps in knowledge so that an evaluation could•be done to determine, among other things, the cost, who is available to do the research and the time required. It would then be helpful to determine what re- search could be done in the public sector and w:zat in the private sector. If the matter could be approached in this way it would be an indication of good faith andt tl~e ability -to work together in the future. Dr. Endicott stated that something in this area was already underway in view of in- dustry's participation in the Less.Hazardous Cigarette Working Group. Industry viexrpoint and information are being fed in to this Group which comprises good technical people. Their recommendations can be pr.esent-ed, to others in the industry.

I Mr. Ramm stated that'perhaps there is an area of ' .agreement between government and the industry in spite of a differing opinion as to whether lung cancer causation has or has not been proved. The industry is sponsoring reseqrch to see if there can be found an'=animal assay sys- tem as a means of determining wizether or not lung cancer is caused by smoki_ng. The government on the other, hand, starting with the assumption that smoking does cause lung cancer, is interqsted in finding the same kind of assay material for the purpose of determining.which elements in cigarette smoke should be eliminated to produce "safer ciga- rettes. Both the government and the industry are in this connection interested in the same type and kind of research, even though for different purposes, and it.should be possible ,, r r The Secretary stated that if there are areas of research which industry and NIH experts believe are not being developed rapidly enough perhaps'these could be discussed. HEjJ would try to get funds to conduct such research'and perhaps in- -dustry could assist in funding the expense. The Senator

. . ; The Senator •stated that if there is to be cooperation he thought it must be worked out on a policy level through Mr. Ranm stated that one of the difficulties with the ` Less' Hazardous Cigarette Working Group was its very na-ne, ~ since this implied that present cigarettes are hazardous-' and assumed a position contrary to that held by the industry. The Secretary said that there is no reason why the name can not be changed and asked what the group should be called. -He said it could be called Subcommittee B, if need be. Mr. Ramm stated that he was not in a position to sug- gest a name and that this was perhaps a matter for government determinati_on. Dr. Endicott stated that members of the industry could set their minds at ease about the Lung Catic~er Tasl~Force as probably this group will have only a few more meetings and then will be disb anded. He stated that in lieu of getting work done at medical schools he thought it would be advisable O to contract work'out and stated that efforts were already N .. C1' undertgay to have a competent contracting firm establish ~ itself in the Research Triangle in North Carolina in pr_ox-- N

• I imity imity with Dr. Kotin's operations there. Dr. Endicott thought that.this would not involve difficulties as it would be neCessary to contract work out in areas other than those in- Mr. Ramm inquired whether it would be possible to:arrange, ~ ' for a meeting of.the Scientific Advisory Board of CTR and the members of the conunittee administering tobacco and health research program of the AMA with representatives of NIII. Mr. Ramm stated that the SAB and the AMA committee comprise very outstanding men and the A,~LA Committee in addition to in- • cluding Dr. Kotin includes two members who wzre _Q:Z the Surgeon General's Advisory Comniittee. Mr. Raiitin pointed out that two of, the members of the SAB, including Dr. Loosli, were nrese:ltly in Europe exploring research being conducted in various centers there. The Secretary stated that he thouolt thati this would be possible 'and asked Dr. Endicott how it could be brought abou~. Dr. Endicott stated that he WOuld ask Dr. Baker to get in touch with the chairman of both the indus try groups and see what coul_d be done. , Mr.. -Cu.ll,nau stated that most of the industry had felt harassment by government and instead of harassment there

should be cooperative effort. He stated that he would like to pursue the other subjects suggested by the Secretary. only on one problem and that if any member present had any additional thoughts on today's discussion they were free to send him a note setting forth those thoughts. He said that if there was anything the industry wanted to say about the report that HEW submitted to Congress-last year, he would be glad to receive this information. However, any comments about the report should be submitted no later than June 1, since the staff was presently at work in preparing the re- port required to be submitted by July 1. ;The Secretary stated that today's meeting had touched The Senator inquired whether the Secretary would invite the industry representatives to the nekt.ineeting. The .Secretary stated the next meeting would be arranged on re- quest of the industry. '