Tobacco Documents Online

February 14, 1973 I~F.h1ORA~.NDU~+I 10: Horace R. Kornegay -FROM: Anne Duffin The advance=billed legislative recommendation for cigarette "tar°' and nicotine- -re-striction never da_me off at today'-s meetiny of the Ad Hoc Commi ttee on Smoking and Healt'rs of the National Cancer Advisory Board. Nor is one likely to emerge from "the next and -fina? - meeting, "---set tentatively for Sunciay j= M;rcY_ -25, - T'r:e- ided- just di-dn ' t=seem too -~ popular. About the only things the ten scientists contentiously assembled at the National Tnstitutes of Health could_agree on-generally was there's not enough solid evidence to warrant setting a lev-el and-that a great deal more-money will be needed--especially for the National Cancer lnstitute's Tobacco Working Group--before science knows enough to be able to set- any. Dr.-Philippe Shubik, the ad-hoc chairman and only NCAB member there, apologized right off that postponement of the original meeting in New York last month had prevanted - the busy board members attending. He said the present group--plus seven NCAB members_and miscellaneous other- public figures (roster attached)--was appointed at the request of NCAB- chairman Jonathan Rhoads, to advise the board-"on controlling the ma3or factor in the occurance ~ of the most proaai.n ent cancer in American males"--cigarettes. 0 t0 No real effort was made to follow the agenda (attached). b d h tt di th l h i i ~ oc mem ers a en ng were e c On y a a rman, G o Gori, I3aniel -Horn, Charles Kensler, Umberto Saffiotti and VT ~ Ernest Wynder.

-L- Shubik said he had asked the- ~'ational Heart-and-hung Inst~tute to join _the dsscLss~a :. ~either-_N~T ~ir-eytor Cooper nor -Deputy Direc tor -Rirtgler were there. Dr. Ciaude -b' Lniant, in - charge of .1111Ml' s respi ratory diseases work, was 2 aionci with Dr. Stuart Bondurant of Albany, N. y. , representing the Ivatienal Heart and _L•ung Council, and Dr. Campbell Moses, American H¢ar~ Association research director. The other- -outsidera taking part were Dr. Cuyler Hamm ond _ of the American Cancer_Society, a rather unhappy ACS - eonsultant xaaned ~~r. Milt and Ed k:er.lis of the Senate Commerce Committee staff. Allen Brauninger and two other- Federa-1 Trade Commission staffers were there but took no part. Bondurant, Brauninger, Milt, Moses and Mike Pertshuk -we,e -listed- as -coanmittee advisers,_ - =- I~:e~lis t~ld the- g~oup S_e~ator ,hioss' ,"tar`` and nicot~.ne== li_mitatior.= bill- had been - reintroduced- this -session but-` that ther-e _ were no -p-larrs *_'or- any further action -o~-`it~- 'lit'S--justlayi2'lg ther'e.=" Hc said, ''A recom%zT-e3'lCiation from - this group or new scientific evidence-are the kinds of thiag s mo e He cited- Maxwell on an average of 16. 6- mg of "tar" in--the 23 new brands introduced since April-19?0.° -He said-this fact °'lends-support to the voluntary concept of 'tar'=and nicotine reduction'"--and asked members to consider "what dangers migY-it-arise--that-legislation might be counter- productive -of-the intent_of the measure if the averages -drop below the_statutory limit." Merlis had left already when Wynder shortly aakeu the group if tp.ere was no passibility that such restriction could be accomplished. His advisers, he said, told him that neither the FDA nor the FTC-had such authority. Yf there is no chance of Congressional passage,-said Wynder, "we are just crying in the wind and - the-problem would seem to be how in a voluntary way--to get the industry to increasingly lower 'tar'-and nicotine." - - When Mr. - Miit, who was sitting among some 20 9b- servers ( almost half- from the tobacco- industry) , tried for- Shubik' s attention, he_was told that only committee people could participate. Milt said he was an ACS consultant and a

~3- co_mmitte-e°_-aavisor_ and- reminded=_the- group_-that _the= ACS_ was_ committed--tc} supp or't _a- legj slative--t i._imit on '-tar"--and - ~L~ heard nicotine-~_ __ He -said he was -.c:Lntus_ed-3 _`.e i~ave hearc very fine th_i ngs--akiout_ t.he--irFdustry and--its-_ -voluZtar-y- efforts and we- find- the group- here rather happy a.bo-ut- that fact... Shauld- we. be, -happy- about th e voluntary actions -or unhappy -((admitted_) ) ? aek of expertise i:i setting about the limitso?" The read% ng of one ~:bser~~Y was that -he and f~~l `_~ Baff i otti and Gori were_ the most unhap py_ about no agreement to recommend legislation. Everr Ha.mnond Mrade it -Tuite cbv ious he thought a good., deal more- research was_necessary- "on--_ relative relationships" before any legis-laJCior, =could be cunsidered. W'ynder= estimated_-t-he_ ne,essary research_ might require 10 or 20 years, and-several participants- warned th-at any reductiQn- o-f smoke components or_ rtpdifica- tion- of cigar-ettes might -re-ctuce risks- in one diaease -area but_ be -har;r.fui in another. Ke_nslcr= urged- encourageir?ent of the-.volunta-ry concept with emphasis on--''the e-ducat=onal - approach"-and multi-level cooperative research. "We don't know r.?~at a_ge., ds are involved, so we can' t set weight limits, :: he said. -s-hubik-announced at noon that he perceived "a consensus- that a recommendation for rigid-legislation-is not in- order at the present time" and was jumped immediately by Hammond, who thought that's wh3t they were gathered to talk about; by Horn, who explained to the apologetic chair- man that ths_propased_bill didn't set limits, just authorized setting them; and Saffiotti, who-calied "a blemish upon consumer legislation" tobacco's exclusion from the Federal Hazardous jubstances-Act. Said Shubik: -'°It is a complex political- problem. " But Kensler-had the last word before__lunch. "The basic problem- is lack of -any basic hard information," he declared. After lunch there were these highlights: --Hammond said-in a year or-two this group--or another - group--might propose some-sort of government regula-_ -tion. "But it's time now to get evidence on-which to base that-regulation or-tcz_help the voluntary efforts

-4- - of the industry, -- Now--we should=_re-cormrLend studies _- -that need - to be ddne. " --Wynder -pcainted out--"-the-- need - to_ acquaint -ours61ve-s with studied now -going-_on," to -aveid dupiicatian, urged "a more streamlined W-G _with more _funds i.n- order to tackle- -the problem_ -in as many _ areas` as - p9ssib_le. " His sugges-- tion=tr_.at TWG have fulltsme staff in the three disease- areas, lung cancer, cardiovascular disease and chronic pulmonary disease, met nqd~.ing he_ads in -a group which - -had already shown it diGn E t think -aIl the - money needed could or_sheuld come from=Sazfiotti:`s-,carcinogenesis br_ anch; cf-NCI. --Gori said three- heart- men- had= been- added- to -TWG:_-_ Bing of California, epidemioiogist- Ian Higgins and_ 7ishman, _University of Pennsylvania cardiolcgist.- --pr~. L'Enfant pointed out tnat was still only trree-out -of 15-wha were in the=heart area and that he didn't- know what his current budget was, much less future- -.,_,._.. . --Echoing Wynder's complaint-that there wasn't enough interest_in the right kind of research even if there were more_money, Hammond exploded: "And there are too many people who are doing the work--our top talent--who are dragged-out=of their laboratories for meetings.- They-sriould stay home._ Bveryone-here- could have accomplished more=today if they'd stayed home and analyzed the_data they had already."- Presumably-Or. Hammond-headed home for his laboratory on Shubik's promise to-provide participants with minutes and a summary by Gori-. Shubik asked Gori to arrange-a TWG-meeting between now and March 25 "to recommend to us some fairly specific research," in advance of_the next NCAB meeting. He said: -"Obviousl_y, there are some gaps in knowledge and if we spell them out we _then strengthen our r-ecomur.en- dations immensely. " . 4 attachments.