Tobacco Documents Online

I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IO II 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 IN THE UNITED STATEN DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS EASTERN DIVISION BROWN & WILLIAMSON TOBACCO CORPORATION, VS* Plalntiff, WALTER JACOBSON and CBS, INC., Defendants. No. 82 C 1648 The deposition of WALTER JACOBSON, called by the Plaintiff for examination, taken pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure of the United States District Courts pertaining to the taking of depositions, taken before JULIE ANN CONROY, a Notary Public within and for the County of Cook, State of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state, at Suite 3000, One IBM Plaza, Chicago, Ill•inois, on the 12th day of July, A.D. 1984, at 9:30 a.m.

2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PRESENT: MESSRS. PAUL, WEISS, RIFKIND, WHARTON & GARRISON, (345 Park Avenue, New York, New York I0~54). by~ HE. MARTIN LONDON, appeared on behalf of the MESSRS. REUBEN & PROCTOR, (19 South LaSalle Street, Chicago, Illinois 60603), MR. JAMES A. KLENK, by= Plaintiff; -and- CBS, 1NC., (51 West 52nd Street, New York, New York 10019), MR. DOUGLAS P. JACOBS, by= appeared on behalf of the Defendants. ALSO PRESENT: MR. GARY CUMMINGS. REPORTED BY: JULIE ANN CONROY, C.S.E.

3 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 l 2 ~ 3 WALTER JACOBEON 4 By Mr. London 5 6 7 8 10 Jacobson Deposition Exhibit 11 NO. 1 Nos. 2, 3, and 4 No. 5 LN___D _~_x E X E I B ITS 42 66 81

1 ~ 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2o 21 22 23 24 MR. LONDON: Will you swear the witness, please? (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly sworn.) WALTER JACOBSON, called as a witness herein, having been sworn, was examined and testified as DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LONDON: first duly follows: Q. Mr. Jacobson, may we have your home address, please7 A. 552 West Belden. Q. And you are employed by whom, sir? A. WBBM TV. Q. DO you have any other employers? A. WBBM Radio. Q. DO you have any other employers7 A. NO. Q- HOW long have you been employed by WDBM TV? A. I would say approximately 14 years on and off. Q. Why don't we work back the other way. Could you tell me your educational

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 background, please? A. From where; high school? Q. High school, college, anything after that. A. New Trier Township High School, Winnetka, Illinois. Grinnell College, Grinnell, Iowa. Q. A degree, sir? A. Bachelor's degree in political science. Q. When was that, sir? A. 1955. These are all approximate. Okay? Q. Yes, sir. A. 1955, Bachelor's degree in political science. degree from Columbia that? you study or -- Masterls O. When was A. 1956. What did A. Something's wrong here. Take your time. A. I'm sorry. 1955 University. is when I graduated from high school. 1959 is when I graduated from Grinnell 1960 was when X got my Master's degree at Columbia. One year CSS fellowship without a degree at the East Asian Institute at Columbia.

-I 6 i T ( l 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O. And what did you study during your Master's degree at Columbia in 19607 A. Journalism. Is that the Columbia School of Journalism? A. Yes. Q, New York City? A. Yes. Q. And the CBS fellowship, describe that, please? A. How do you mean? Q. Were you at school? A. I lived in New Jersey school every day. Q. Which school? could you and I went to A. Columbia University. I took a variety of courses in political science, I was not matriculated. And I took a year's personal tutoring in Chinese, Q. When you say it was does that mean you had some CBS to do those studies? A. For nine months I worth of at which I was -- a CBS fellowship, • sort of a grant from took a leave from here,

L I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that as a for Q. Then what did you do when you finished nine-month study at Columbia in 19617 A. I came back to Chicago and went to work -- continued my work as a reporter for WBBM. Then I have missed something. When did you start working as a reporter WBBM? Take your time. A. Do you know what's wrong here? O. What's wrong? A. Again -- MR. KLENK: He hasn't asked you a question. THE WITNESS: He didn't? MR. KLENK: Can you tell him when you started working? I will be glad to get his starting date and give it to you. BY MR. LONDON: Q. If you want to explain something, go right ahead. A. I just want to get my dates right. I didn't say that 1961 was the year I went on the fellowship. You asked me what my education was. My chronological education was as you put it down. Later on, I went back as a fellow. So

8 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1O ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 between the time I graduated from Columbia School of Journalism and the fellowship, there were years during which I was a -- Q. You graduated from -- let's see if we have At now -- from Columbia School of Journalism. And I understand that you are a little uncertain about these dates. Would you Just do this for me -- A. Sure. Q. -- if you later realize that any one of these dates are off, would you let me know? A. I said initially that they are approximate. 0. But if you later find out you are off, would you let me know? A. Sure. O. As you best recall it now, you graduated with a Master's from the Columbia School of Journalism An 1960, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. What did you do then? A. I then went to Europe for Q. To study? A. NO. TO travel. six months. two+.,'/+, 681814473

g P l ( lQ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 O. What then? A. I returned to Chicago and was United Press International. g. This would be sometime in 1961, sir? A. 1961, I think. From there -- now, I'm lost on the -- have Just been O. You are in 1961 and you employed by UPI. A. Right, at which time, I stringer at Time Magazine. employed also was a From there -- and I don't know the dates from there, I went to Chicago's American, by now -- which became Chicago Today. From there, I went to WBBM TV as a writer. Approximately 1964 or '5, I'm not sure -- (WHEREUPON, Mr. Douglas P. Jacobs entered the deposition proceedings.) (WHEREUPON, there was a short interruption. ~Y MR. LONDON: Q. All right, sir. Approximately did you work at UPI? A° This is a guess. A year. Q. What were your duties? how long

i f" ,> 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. Reporter. Q. And did you do hard news? A. Yes, I did hard news. Q, Did yo~ do commentary, as A. No, sir. Q. Just hard news? A. Yes. O. And you did hard news for Magazine? A. Basically research And about how long as a researcher? A. That was a Q. stringer. A. I at UPI, but well? Time, Time for Time Magazine. did you work for Time part-time stringer. HOW long was that? think that was during the time I I'm inexact about that, as well. Q. Approximately a A. Approximately a And then you went A. Yes. Q. What is that? year, more or less? year, more or less, was to Chicago's American? A. It was an afternoon daily. O. And the name was thereafter Chicago Today? changed to

Ii 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. Right. Q. And how long were you employed at the American/Today? A. This is a real guess. Four years, three years. O. That was a full-time employment, sir? A. Yes. O- And what were your duties there A. Reporter. Q. Did you have a by-line? A. Yes. O. You worked hard news? A. Yes. O. Did you write any editorials? A. NO. O. Did you do any analysis or commentary? A. That's a difficult question. What do you mean? O. Do you do analysis or commentary now? A. Yes. O. What is that? What do you mean by that? A. Well, I do commentary. I mean, I cover events. Q. What is the distinction between commentary ..++,i,+,, , 681814't76

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 and hard news? A. I guess that depends on the story you are talking about. I mean, you have to be a little more specific. See, the reason I hesitated before was I didn't write a column. But if I am covering City Nall and the covering demands some judgments, I might describe that as commentary; you migh£ not. It is a very fine line. Q. In other words, in your hard news pieces, you might vent a personal judgment? Is that what you are saying? A. Well, I wouldn't vent a judgment. Q. You would write it? A. I might say, "Mayor Washington, appearing somewhat harassed by his Opposition, said today that..." I mean, that's kind of an analysis, would you agree, or a comment? It's reporting. It'S reporting, analytical reporting. O. Did you write -- A. It's reporting. O. Did you write any editorials for the Chicago American? am,.,,,. • 681814477

13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lO ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. No. O. Did you do a column? A. NO. O. And when you say what you did for the Chicago American was reporting, is it fair to say whether you made a comment about the subject of your article you tried to be fair? A. Always. Q. Accurate? A. Always. And even when you made a comment, you tried, to the best of your ability, to be objective? A. I don*t mean to be difficult. B0t I don't want to get stuck on the "comment" word which you are referring to. I mean, I'm always objective, yes Q. Okay. And you left the Chicago Today to go to WBBM TV as a writer in '64 or '657 A. Somewhere in there. Q. And was that as a news A. Yes. Q. Save you been employed any capacity other than in station's News Department? writer? by WBBM TV in connection with that

14 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 . g IO II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Ig 20 21 22 23 24 A. NO. O. And is it correct that you have been at WBBM ever since? A. No. Q. All right. Tell me when did you leave? A. I think I can tell you, if you want to know specifically, by backing up. Q. Okay. sure. A. 13 years ago would have been 197- -- O. '717 A. '75. 13 years ago, '72. 13 from '84 could be '71, too. A. A guess. Q. Your best recollection. Lawyers don't like guesses. Your best recollection. MR. KLENK: DO the best you can. Let's move Ono THE WITNESS: But I don't want to be inaccurate. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Mr, Jacobson, let me restate it because Z want you to be confident about at least one thing during this deposition. I fully understand your inability to pinpoint precise dates in your career. It is a , ,2J,,28o,, 681814479

15 4 I ( > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 failing that I also share. So, you these dates, all I want you your best recollection. I want you to -- indeed, to and you have agreed to this -- when you look at off by a year or will understand. Do you A. Okay. again, when I ask to do is give me I have asked you at some later time this transcript and you see you are two or three, fix it and everybody understand that, sir? Best recollection? Yes, sir. A. 1969, left WBBM and went to WMAQ. Q. WM -- say again. A. MAQ. Q. And how long were you at MAQ, sir? A. TWO to three years. Q. What did you do at MAQ? A. I was a reporter and a commentator. Is MAQ a television station? A. Yes. O. And at the time you were with BBM TV from about '64 or '65 through '69 as a writer, were you an on-the-air person? A. Yes.

16 [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? S 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O. And were you an on-air person at A. Yes. Q. Did you have a regular show? A. I was on on a regular basis. Q. Yes, sir. That's what I mean. A. There was no Walter Jaoobson Show. I was not a featured part of a specific MAQ? show every day. O. What program were you on on a regular basis? A. The news. Q. Which news? A. Various newscasts. Q. How often toward the end, at least, of that tour of duty did you appear in a given week? A. Oh, five times out of seven. Q. And when you were at MAQ, did you write, as well as read the news? A. Yes. Q. Was that also true with respect to your prior appearances on WBBM TV? A. Yes. I wrote what I read. O. Just so we are clear, does that refer to both WBBM TV '64 through '69, as well as MAQ '69 to

17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 i9 2O 21 22 23 24 '71 or '27 ~. Yes, Q, You wrote what you read? A. X wrote what I read. O. SO If you Head it, it meant that you wrote it? A. Right. Q. NOW, sir, you said to me that for MAQ you weze a reporter and a commentator? A. Right. Could you please explain to me what you mean by the distinction between those two words? A, AS a reporter, I was assigned to cover City Hall, as an example. And I stood in front of the City council chambers and reported events as they played themselves out. As a commentator, I was given the latitude to interpret events. 5. Would it be correct to describe your role as a reporter as one involving hard newsg A. Yes. O. And would it be correct to say that your role as a commentator was not just reporting hard news?

18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. Not reporting hard news, that's correct. Q. All right, sir. When you -- A. It included reporting hard news. O- I take it you reported hard news and you commented about it? A. Okay. O- YOU analyzed it, is that fair? A. Yes. Q. So you were engaged in news analysis? A. Yes. O. And when you did that, did you make efforts that your viewers understood that you were engaging in comment or analysis? A° Yes. Q. So that you took steps to assure that your viewers wouldn't confuse Walter Jacobson, the reporter, with Walter Jacobson, the commentator? A. Right. Q. What steps did you take so that they would know when you were doing one thing and when you were doing another? A. I was introduced as a commentator and have my signature over my face on the screen -- over my chest on the screen. Underneath my signature, it +e+,, , 681814483

b - 19 4' 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 says, "Perspective." It is always introduced as Walter's Perspective. It is always followed specifically by a commercial, and it i8 performed at a place other than the anchor desk. Q. I think we have a little confusion, but it may be mine. So let me go back. I take it that the answer that you just gave me was with respect to your current employment -- A. Right. Q. -- is that right? A. Right. Q, Now, let me back up, sir, and ask you a question about your employment with WMAQ. When you were at MAQ and you did reporting and -- A. Comment, Q. -- and commenting, what steps, if any, did you or the station take then to advise the viewer that you were performing one role or the other? A. Similarily introduced as a commentator and similarily performing from a place other than the anchor desk. And, perhaps, but I'm not positive

2O ( i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 l? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. 0. A. Q. station A. 0. A. identified Q. Now, sir, read station editorials? A. NO, O. Write them? A. NO, Participate in ---- ND. as commentator by a word on the screen. did you when you were at MAQ -- editorials in any way? No. DO you in your current job write editorials? NO. Do you read station editorials? NO. Q. DO you have anything to do with station editorials? A. Nothing. Q. That is the prerogative of whom in rout organization? A. General manager. O. Is that Mr. Cummings? A. Yes. MR. KLENK: Let's go off the recor~ for

{ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 minute. BY MR. LONDON: O. Now, (WHEREUPON, there was interruption,} sir, have you brought a short US totally up to date on your resume with respect to your employment and education? Are there any other jobs that you have had that you haven't told us about? A. Summertime jobs, lifeguard. Q. Other than that? A. City News Bureau. Q. Jobs subsequent to your education, subsequent to graduating college. A. NO. Q. Nothing? A. A variety of summertime in college jobs in journalism. 0. So even in college, you worked in some connection in the journalistic profession? A. In high school, as well. Did you work for professional organizations or school organizations? A. Both. rW°[I;+, ~'°"+J+"5' ''/'~J+~'~+~'+, 9'-+. e+<,,~o, .~e+++, • ,+,,,+.7+,2-,o++. G81+I~86

22 [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O. What professional organizations did you work for in high school and college? A. The suburban newspapers, north suburban newspapers, the Winnetka Talk. Q. When you say "suburban newspapers," is that -- A. It was a Hollister -- I don't know who owns it now -- but the Hollister chain of north sir? Was suburban newspapers. Q. When did you work for them, A. High school summers. Q. What were your duties? A. Reporting high school sports. Q. Anybody else you worked for? that several summers? A. Yes. I don't know how many specifically. O. All right, sir. Anything else? A. Yes. I worked for the City News Bureau of Chicago, which is a news gathering. Q. When did you work for them, A. Summertime in college. Q. What were your duties? A. Reporting. Q. Hard news? sir? art,,,.. . 681814487

23 f I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. reporter O. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. or whatever. my job to get for him. of Y~S. I worked for the Chicago Daily News as a for a columnist, Jack Mabley. Would you spell that for me? Jack who? Mabley, M-a-b-l-e-y. And was that a single summer -- Yes. ---- or several summers? Single summer. What is a reporter for a columnist? Research on the street and in the library Wherever he needed information, it was it. I was assigned to cover stories Q. Have you finished? your -- A. That's it. --- employments Have you told us all in the field of is with A. journalism? A° TO the best of my memory, that's it. Okay, sir. Now, your current job, you have told us, RBM TV and BBM Radio? Right.

24 /" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Q. And what dO you do for BBM TV? k. ~ a~ an anchorman and a commentator and a reporter. Q. Now, let's take those one at a time. What is it that you do when you function as a reporter for BBM TV? A. I cover stories, report on daily events. And do you do that on the air? A. Sometimes. O. And when you do it on the air, is it always your own writing that you are reading? A. NO. When I report on the air, it's not a matter of writing. It's interviewing news makers of the day on the air live. Q. So your on-the-air reporting is interviewing? A. Yes. Q. DO you do any reporting of hard news? That is ha~d news, Q. Interviewing is? Ao Yes, What else do you do other than interviewing when yo~ are functioning as a reporter on BBM TV? g81 14489

25 % 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Soliciting information from other scene, air? a. reporters on the O. On the A. Yes. Q. YOU are in a studio or a booth at the time and the other reporters are at the location? A. In our newsroom. I am in our newsroom. Q. You are in the newsroom and the other reporter is at the scene of the event? A. Or the other reporter may be in newsroom with me. the Q. What else do you do as a reporter? A. I investigate. I do what reporters do. Q. The investigation, is that done on air? A. NO -- 0. Have you told us -- A. -- not all the time. Q. -- all of the things that you do when you function as a reporter on camera? A. On camera? Yes, sir, on the air. A. I interview. I solicit information. I exchange information. I put information into perspective as a reporterm and I disseminate

+ 26 ¢ ! 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 information. Q. NOW, just SO I am clear, is there any distinction between the phrase "on air" or "on the air" and "on camera" in your mind? A. NO. Q. Now, you indicated that you were a commentator, as well as a reporter? A. Yes. Q. What is it that you do in that role? A. I analyze news and interpret news. O, And you do that on camera? A. Yes. Q. And do you write the material that you read -- A. Yes. 0, ---- on camera? A. Yes. O. And when you do this commenting, is it from a script? A. Yes. O. And you are responsible for writing the script that you read on camera? A. Right. Q. And I think you have told us before

27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 that when you do serve as the station take steps to viewer knows that you are hat at that time, is that A. Right. Q. And your Perspective, is an O. A. O. respect A. Q. sir? A. Q. A. Q. A. 0. A. Q. A. a commentator, you and see to it that the wearing your commentator correct? show, Walter J~cobson's example of that, is it not? Yes. And you also serve as an anchorman? Right. And tell us, please, what you do with to that aspect o£ your work. Disseminate information. Does that involve appearing on camera, Yes, Does it involve reading from a Yes. Do you write that script? NO -- Somebody else does? ---- on OCCasion. Mostly somebody else writes it? Right. script? ° 681814492

28 I ! 7 I. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14" 15 16 L7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 on hard Q* your work news? A. O. A. Q. often do A. Q, deal with ~revious A. O. A. O. A. O. You introduce other reporters who appear camera, right? A. Right. Q. The anchorman phase of your work involves news, correct? A, Yes. ~ow, sir, I take it at least some of as a commentator does not involve hard Okay. Is that right? Mow do you define "hard"? Well, let's go back, When you serve as a~ anchorman -- how you appear as an anchorman? Twice a day. And does the news you report frequently events that have occurred that day or the day? As an anchor? Yes, sir. Yes. Current events? Right.

29 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O. Hot news? A. Okay. Immediate news. Q. Immediate news. When you do a Perspective, you comment about things that may well have OCCUrred months or years ago, correct? A. Correct. Q. YOU give an analysis of events that are not immediate or hot news or may not be? A. Okay. Some of them may be old? A. Right. Q. And you give your opinion about that, is that right? A. I give an experienced judgment. Q. Okay. Your experienced Judgment is not something you would call hard news; you would call that your judgment, right? A. Okay. Q. Is that correct? A. It is an experienced judgment applied to essentially hard news. O. I understand. But you take pains to advise your viewer

30 i / 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1O ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that what he or she is getting is Walter judgment about something, correct? A. Right. Q. And you have described the several steps take to communicate that to the you and the station viewer, correct? A. Yes. Q. Now, is fulfilling all of commentator, and anchorman, commitment of fairness? A, 0. A. 0. of these can, the A. Q. A. Q. it correct to say that in these roles of reporter, you have an ethical Absolutely. Accuracy? Right. That you consider it your duty roles to give your viewers, as truth? Jacobson's in all best you Right. A correct impression of time and place? Right. In all of these roles, you try to produce honest and straightforward broadcasts, correct? A. Right. Could I -- what do you mean by e~,,~., an,..,. , ~,~ Ts2-aoa~ G 81 $14 4 9 5

I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 "correct impression of time and place"? I am confused by you~ question as 1 thought it out. I said, "Yes." Q, Well -- A, Just accurate, If you are asking whetheg I try to be accurate and fair and objective at all times, the answer is yes, if that's what you mean by time and place. Q. Well, you wouldn't, for example, tell your viewers that something happened yesterday I when, in fact, it happened three years ago, would you? A. I wouldn't lie, absolutely not. Q. If you were reporting an event, you would report it in such a Way so that the viewer would receive a correct impression of when the event occurred and where it occurred? A. if I was dealing with dates, if dates were important. ~ mean, ~ would never say anything on the air that was knowingly dishonest. I hear you. A. Understand that. Q. I hear you° But I want to come back question about which you have some second the to ~zw2o, ~L.~l~ • (312.) 782d~087

32 f I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 thoughts about your answer, MR. KLENK: Objection, had second thoughts, BY THE WITNESSz A, I didn't understand your BY MR. LONDONz He didn't say he question. Q, All right. You don't understand what I mean when I say a correct impression of time and place, is that what you are saying? A, Right. O. When you broadcast as an anchorman and you are reporting on an event -- A. As an anchorman? As an anchorman. (Continuing) -- do you endeavor to construct the broadcast in such a way so that the viewer will have a correct impression of the place the event took place that you are reporting back? A. I have to interrupt, because I don't construct the broadcast. A producer constructs the broadcast. Q. So far as you know, do the producers who construct the broadcasts that you read endeavor to 681814497

33 l 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 iI 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 give the viewers a correct impression of time and time and place is essential to the place? A. If story, yes. Q. If it is make no effort? A. It's immaterial, Immaterial. not essential to the story, immaterial. they BY anchorman, you don't know who was making the judgment? A. On? Q. On the news that you were reading about whether a correct impression of time and place was material or not? Is that what you are saying? And who makes the judgment as to whether a correct impression of time and place is material? A. I would imagine the producer; perhaps the writer of the story. MR. KLENK: Don't guess. If you know. THE WITNESS: A. I don't know. MR. KLENK: Mr. London is not interested in your guesses. He wants your best recollection. BY MR. LONDON: O. As you're working as an

I i 3 4 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. I got to think. Okay? Q. Yes, sir. A. You know, what you have to do is he more specific about what you mean when you are talking about time and place. That's what is confusing me. Do you want to give an example and maybe I can be more specific? The time and place is vague and confusing when it counts and when it doesn't count. What do you mean by your question? I will try to answer it. Q. Well, do you think that -- A. Let's say, for example -- MR. KLENK: He is asking the questions. BY MR, LONDON: Q. We will ask it my way. MR. KLE~K: You don't ask the questions. You give the answers. Let Mr. London ask his questions. BY MR. LONDON: O. Is it your view of your role when you are writing the material to be broadcast, when you are producing an element of a news broadcast, that it is incumbent upon you to construct that broadcast

35 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 messaqe in such a way so that the viewer will receive a correct and accurate impression Of when and where the subject of your report occurred? A. If the time and place are essential to an understanding Of the story, the answer is yes. Q. And if the time and place are not essential to the understanding of the story, is the answer no? A. If time and place are not essential to the story, they don't work into my considerations. Q. And in stories that you write, is it correct that it is you who decides whether time and place are material? A. That's accurate. Q. And, therefore, it is on stories that you write whether to report time and place? MR. KLENK: Excuse me. Could you read back and answer? you who decides it's necessary the last question (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested as follows: "Q. And in stories that

36 D 4 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 yOU write, is it correct that it is you who decides whether time and place are material? "A. That's accurate. "0. And, therefore, it is you who decides on stories that you write whether it's necessary to report time and place?") MR. KLENK: TO me, Martin, it's the same question. MR. LONDON: If he thinks so, let him answer it the same way. BY THE WITNESS: A. I need a distinction between -- MR. LONDON: See, he already thinks it's not the same question. BY THE WITNESS: A. I need a distinction between commentary and stories. I am not sure you understand what I do or that I have made it clear enough. When you said to me in stories that I write, do I determine the importance of time and *lace, I assumed you meant my commentary. If you meant a news story, I would

i I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 , 20 21 22 23 24 37 probably -- I would answer the question somewhat differently. BY MR. LONDON: O. Well, give us the answer for the commentary stuff that you write. A. Okay. Q. And give us the answer for the news stuff that you write. A. When I write a commentary, I determine subject -- I determine -- I determine the necessity of all the elements, including time and place, as I write it. And do you write news? A. On occasion. And when you write news, do you determine the necessity for including in the news report those elements? A. It's more than a collegial decision. The producer, the executive producer, and I will confer about the elements in the story that are supposed to be presented or that we wish to present. O. So that I understand, I think you said "It's more than a collegial decision." Do you mean it is more of a collegial

38 I 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 decision? A. Yes. O. SO that sometimes when you are writing news, you with somebDdy else about wh~t elements are necessary -- A, Yes, that's true. Q. -- to be included in the story? A. That's true. But when you do the Walter Jacobson Perspective, it is Walter Jacobson who makes the decision? A. Right. Q. The buck stops there -- withdraw it. MR. KLENK: There is no question, Walter. Just wait for the next question, listen, and answer it. I BY MR. LONDON: Q° In any event, is it correct that in every role you have, you would never construct a program that would lead the viewer to have an erroneous i~pression Of time and place? MR. KLENK: I object, BY MR. LONDON~ Q. Is that correct?

39 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR, KLENK: the different roles he every r01e. BY MR. LONDON: O. You can't answer every role you have? A. Repeat the question. IS it correct that in you play in the WBBM enterprise, i construct or create a broadcast the viewer an erroneous -- MR. KLENK: Objection. BY MR. LONDON: from a broadcast, that. BY MR. LONDON: O. A. THE point. BY THE WITNESS: A. I mean. He has made disti~ctlons between had and you asked him about that with respect to every role that you would never that would give Q. -- impression of time and place? MR. KLENK: What impressions viewers take away he is not competent to testify to Can you answer that question? NO. WITNESS: You are making a very good I don't know what they are , _6,,,. 681814504 ~o, ~.ols e (312)782~087

4O I l 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 thinking when they see it. I would never knowingly do anything dishonest on the air. Z just never would do anything dishonest on the air, period. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Do you try to give them a correct impression Of the events? A. I try to disseminate information. I am not in the business of creating impressions. I disseminate information. I don't know whether you are going to see a red tie or a blue tie. But I would never give any misinformation knowingly. Q. When you say you don't know whether I am going to see a red tie or a blue tie, you do, as a writer and a creative person, have in mind what it is the viewer is likely to take away from what you write, A. isn't it? NO. I am disseminating information. Q. Don't you present the broadcast in a way that you would expect the viewer will see as a fair presentation? A. You know, I really cannot say what the viewer will think when he or she watches television. I write it and present it in a way that I consider

41 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 to be accurate, fair, honest, and objective. That's it. O. And when you write it in a way that you consider to be fair -- did you say honest, fair, and objective? A. Accurate. O. Honest, fair, accurate, and objective. If you think in your judgment that mentioning the place an event occurred is a material event in conveying an honest, fair, and accurate and objective broadcast, you will include that in your report, correct? A. Yes. Q. And if you think that the time an event occurred is necessary to yield an honest, fair, accurate, and objective report, you will include that event in your broadcast? MR. KLENK: I am going to object to the question. I think we have been going over this ground. You can answer it again and let's move BY THE WITNESS~ A. Okay. Yes. MR. KLENKz Could we take a short break? , 681814506

42 7 1 2 3 4 5 S 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY MR. MR. (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.) LONDON: Would you mark this please, Julie? (WHEREUPON, said document was marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NO. I, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) LONDON: Q. Have you ever seen that document Before? (WHEREUPON, the document was tendered to the witness.) MR. KLENK: Take a look at the whole thing. THE WITNESS: All of this? MR. KLENK: Figure OUt what it is before you ire an answer. TEE WITNESS: Well, I was about to look at it. didn't even get past the first line. (WHEREUPON, there was a short interruption.) BY THE WITNESS: A. I have seen this. BY MR. LONDON: O- Can you sir? tell us what it is, please, A. Well, it's production standards. I 681814507

43 m f I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 think this is what the Blue Book is. Whose production standards? A. CBS Stations. Is this, what you c~ll the B~ue Nook, the standards for CBN Television News? A. I don't know how they define it. O- Let me show you a page that is captioned, "CBS Television Stations News Standards." DO you A. Yes. Q. Do you understand what this package -- believe, check me if I'm wrong, that this document I W~s see that? BY It produced by you ~d your CO-Defendant. A. What do you mean? MR. KLENK: He doesn't understand, Yes. MR. LONDON: Q. ~ got this ~ocu~ent from your Was produced by CBS and by you MR. LONDON~ MR. KLENK: MR. LONDON: Q. Is that correct, That's correct. lawyers. in this litigation. Mr. Klenk? BY So this is the CB$ Televisio~ Stations

4.4 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 News Q, A. Q. A. O. A. Q. A. cemember O. read it A. Q. Standards book, correct? A. Yes. Q. It is updated from time A. I don't know. Q° Have you ever read it? A. I read it. Q. Row long ago? A. I don't know. Not recently? I don't remember. Recently? Recently being? Did you read it in the last year? No. Did you read it in the last two years? I can't gay that, Mr. London. I don't when I read it last. Well, is it possible that you haven't in the last five years? Is it possible? Possible. All right, sir. But you do have a recollection of reading it at some time? Ao Yes. Have you made any effort to time, is it not? to comply with ,,,2 9L. art.,,,,, , 681814505

45 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 those standards in your years at BBM? A. Sure. MR. KLENK: Objection. I mean, he has been there -- it is a very broad question. Ss has been there 16 years on and off. He answered the question. BY MR. LONDONz O~ Since 1980, have you comply with those standards? made any effort A. Why don't you tell me which standard I can tell you in which specific case I have complied or not complied? Q. As you sit here any time in the last four the standards in Exhibit A. NO. I -- MR. KLENK: The man years. BY THE WITNESS: A. There's not a list I mean -- MR. KLENK: Let him THE WITNESS: Okay. BY MR. LONDON| to and now, are you aware of years when you violated i? hasn't read them for five of numbers. ask the question.

46 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 g 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q, Now, sir, if you will t~rn to the page which is marked with -- MR. LONDON: Off the record, in Exhibit i (WHEREUPON, discussion was had off the record.) BY ME. LONDON: Q. Could you turn to the page in the exhibit that is marked 000068? It is entitled, "Preface." DO you see it, sir? A. Yes. And the first line reads, "The CTS News Standards is a set of basic guidelines to insure honest and straightforward news and informational broadcasts," close quote. Is it fair to say that whenever it is that you last read these standards you understood them to a set of basic guidelines to b~oadcasts? thought five years be that; that is, insure honest and straightforward Ao I don't remember what I ago when I read this page. O. SO you cannot say that it was your impression that these guidelines were to insure honest and straightforward broadcasts? A. I cannot say when I read these five years

47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ago what I tho~laht, honest to God. Q. Did you ever believe that these CBS news standardg had anything to do with honest and straightforward news broadcasting? DO I believe that now7 Yes, Ao Yes. It says it° But prior to the time when you read it at this deposition table this morning, are you unable to say that it was ever your belief that that was the case? A. I h~ve to -- I c~n't Say, Mr. Londona what I thought and believed five years ago or six or four when I read it, really. I believe the words now. I probably believed them then. Q. In any event, you certainly always tried to produce honest and straightforward news and informatiQnal broadcasts, is that correct? MR. KLENKz We have been over this already. BY THE WITNESS: A. That's correct. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Now, sir, would you turn to Page 717 It o s 2 7,2-soe 681S14512

48 l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 has got the rubber stamped 71 and typewritten 3 at the bottom. it has got a I direct your attention to the quoted material in the next to the last paragraph of the page. I want to read a sentence to you and I want you to tell me whether it coincides with your view of your role as an employee of WBBM TV. "The analyst should attempt to clear up any contradictions within the known record, should fairly present both sides of controversial questions and, in short, should give the best available information upon which listeners can make up their own minds," close quote. DO you see that sentence, sir? A. I do. Q. Is that your view, too, that a news analyst should fairly present both sides of controversial questions? A. I'd have to say that it depends on the controversial question, the degree of controversy. Q. You think in some instances, whatever, without defining what they are, that an analyst need not fairly present both sides of controversial questions? et .. o GS18145t3

49 i k- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Ig 20 21 22 23 24 A. Wnw. r.~% me think of an example. MR. KLENK! Could you read back the prior question and answer, please? I lost it. (WNEEEU?ON, the record was read by the reporter as requested as follows: "Q, Is that your view, too, that a news analyst should fairly present both sides of controversial questions? "A. I'd have to say that it depends on the controversial question the degree of controversy. "Q. You think in ~ome instances whatever, without defining what they are, that an analyst need not fairly present both sides of controversial questions?=') BY THE WITNESS: A. That's right. BY MR. LONDON: Q. And who makes the judgment that -- in your view, who should make the judgment that in certain cases a~ analyst need ~ot fairly present both sides

5O F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 of a controversial question? A, My judgment. And what are the criteria by which you exercise that Judgment? A. If an anchorman reads a story about a controversy over seat belts and presents both sides of the controversy and then introduces the commentator who then pr~lents his analysis of the controversy, it is unnecessary for the commentator to repeat what the anchorman just did, which was, present both sides. That's what I mean. O- SO that the only exception that you would make i8 if in the same broadcast another reporter or another on-air personage gave a fair )resentation of both sides, then it is hot necessary that the next speaker do the same thing, is that correct? K. Well, that's correct. Q. But you would agree that within any broadcast, within any news analysis, it is incumbent upon the presenter of that news analysis to fairly preJent both sides of a controversial question7 A. Yes. And let me read the next sentence. CWor[,, 681814515 ~o, ~,ots • C3121782~087

! 51 % g" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. You Mnow what, you ~ust "controversial question" before 1 answer that substantively° Q° ~ mean my questi~ in define could really the same way that the CBS news standards mean it in their Exhibit l which they have promulgated. A. ~ don't know if I e~ a~swer the question+ Q. Okay. So you are not sure you are able to comply with this news standard because you don't understand it, is that correct7 MR. KLENK: NO. His testimony was that he eouldn'~ answer your question. THE WITNESS: Right. BY MR° LONDON: O- Are you able to comply with this standard that we have just read o~ the record relating to fair presentation of both sides of controversial questions? A. Say that again. Q. Are you able to comply with this standard promulgated by CBS that we have just read, that is, the one that requires the fair ~resentation of both sides of controversial e+<+.o, Je++,,+,,. ,, GSIS14516

52 % l 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g 10 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 questions? A. There is a lot of verbiage here. In order for me to answer your question, you have got to 9ire me an example of how X would or would not apply. Okay? Because, yes, generally I could comply with the production standards, of ~ourse. Q* YOU are required to, aren't yo~, as an employee of CBS? Aren't you? A. Yem. But somebody has to make an assessment, ~nd it's neve~ happened to me h~fore, of whether there is co~plla~ce or ~Ot compliance. SO there has to b~ an issue over which the questio~ is raised about compliance, Q. But you recognize ~s an e~ployee of CBS that first you -- you certainly recognize it now that CBB has issued these standards as a guideline to insure honest and straightforwar~ news reporting. correct? A, TO be applied to specific instances. Q. Okay. And you understand that ~ith that goal, CBS has promulgated a standard that says that the analyst should fairly present both sides of controversial questions? You understand they have do~e that~ correct?

53 I 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KDENK: Excuse me. dust ask him One question at a time. please, Mr. London. MR. LONPON: That is the question. BY MR. LONDON~ Q. You understand they have done that? A. Well, I got confused between two questions. Q. YOU understand that CBB has promulgated a set of standards that says, among other things, an analyst should fairly present both sides of controversial questlons7 A, It is clear to me that CBB has promulgated these production standards. Q. And it is clear to you that you are obliged as a CBS employee to comply, co:rect? A. ~t is clear tO m~ that Tt us ~n e~ployee of CBS -- yes. Q. DO you have any special exemption OF license to depart from the CBS news standards? A. NO. Q. Has anybody in CBS ever said to you in wo~ds or substance that they would not oblige you, Walter Jacobson, to follow the same news standards

T i 2 S 4 5 6 ? 8 9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 54 that other mmployees were obliged to follow? A. NO. ~ns anybody ever told you that they were going ~o bend the rules for your favor? A* NO. Q. That they differently for you Cronkite or anybody A. NO. NOW, sir, were going to interpret them thin they would for a Walter else? X wonder if you would turn to Page If0, the rubber stamp, of this exhibit which has a typewritten 38 in the lower rlght-hand corner. The top of the page says, "Production Standards," MOU see that, sir? A. Yes. Q. And the caption in "Staging"? A. Right. Q. I want to read the top two lines and then the top subparagraph and ask you a question about it Staging: "Staging is prohibited. CTS Ibroadcasts must be just what they purport to be. We report facts______~exactl as they occur." UndezscoEe the upper left says,

55 I 2 3 4 5 5 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 "exactly," "We do no~," underscore "not," "create or change them. It is of the utmolt importance, therefore, that these basic principles he adhered to scrupulously by all CTS personnel: "Say nothing and do nothing that may give the viewer or listener an impression of time, place, event o~ person which varies from the facts actually seen, heard and recorded by OUr equipment," close quote, Do you subscribe -- do you, Walter Jacobson, subscribe to that standard? A. I do. Q. Rave you always done so? A. I have, to the best of my recollection, Q. And, ~ow, upon seeing that standard set forth in the CBS guidelines, you ate able to answer that question, even though it requires you to know something about the impression you are going to create on the viewer? A. NO, no, MR. KLENK: NO. that's his testimony. "THE WITNESS: I lost BY MR. LONDON: Objection. I that, don't think 681B14520

56 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 i3 14 ~5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O. Okay. Your testimony now is -- A. Right now? Q. As you sit here this morning -- A. Yes. -- your testimony is that you do comply standard? A. done and you always have complied with the I cannot tell you what I have always in 16 years of broadcasting. Q. The best of your recollection. A. You asked me whether I -- whether I understand and agree -- I think was your word -- with these standards. My answer to that question is yes. Q. Have you tried to comply with them? A. Absolutely. And you are able to answer that question absolutely, even though the standard speaks about an impression that is going to be created with the viewer, right? You know what "i~pression" mea~s here? A. Yes, I do. Q. You just didn't know what it meant when I asked it? C~o, 9S~, . :3,2;,a2.e087 GS 1 3 1 4 5 9 J_

57 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 IS 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. NO. Your question is different. They are now different. So maybe you better olarify them. This says that one shall not vary the f~ts from the facts aotua~ly seen. You before were asking me what I thought people who viewed • y broadcast might think. To me, those are different speclfically. I would not vary a fact, period, knowingly or o~ purpose, of cO~T$~, Q, You would not say or do anything that might give the viewer an impression of time, plade, event or person which varies the facts, is that correct7 A. ~ ~o~ld not vary a fa~t, period. Would you say or do anything that might give the viewer Or listener an impression of time or place which varied the fact? A. I got to repeat it, Mr. London. O. You oan't anmw~r my gUQstiDn? A. Well, I would not vary a fact. Q. You would not do anything that violated this standard on Page llO Qf Exhibit i, correct? • 681814522

58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. I would not knowingly violate a CBS standard, no. Q. As far as you know, you haven't done so, correct? A. Right. Q. Now, sir, if you would turn back to Page 71 of this exhibit, which has a typewritten 3 in the lower right-hand ~orner, please, I want to read to yeu another sentence which follows up t~e sentence I read to you just before. "Ideally, in the case of controversial issues, the audience should be left with no impression as to which side the analyst himself actually favors ..., " close quote. Rave I read that correctly, sir? MR. KLENK: We will stipulate that you can readl Mr. London. BY MR. LONDON: Do you adhere to that Ao Oh, Mr. London. Yes, Mr. Jacobson? A. You know~ that statement 1948. I think, in all due respect that it is almost impossible standard? was made in to Paul White, to determine what

59 f I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 kind ~ ~v-~cc!en ycu person who is impressions ~ade. A llfetime of MR. KLENK= answer them, MR. LONDON: please? are 9oing to leave with a watching television, because come from within, as much as they viewer brings to his set a whole impressions, right? He asks the questions. Just Could you repeat my question, are (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested as follows: "Q. Do you adhere to that standard?") THE WITNESS: Now read the answer. (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested as followsl "O. Do you adhere to that standard? "A. Oh, Mr. London. "Q. Yes, Mr. Jacobson? "A. You know, that statement

60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 29 24 was made in 1948. I think, in all due reepect to Paul White, that it is almost impossible to determine what kind of impression you are going to leave with a person who is watching television, because impressions come from within, as much as they are made. "A viewer brings to his set a whole lifetime of impressions, right?" ) BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you try to adhere to the standard? A. I try to adhere to the CBS standards, no question about that. Let me read you the next sentence. "I~ both news and news analysis, the go~l of the news broadcaster or the news analyst must be objectivity." close quote. DO you adhere to that standard? A. I try to adhere to all the -- yes. Now, sir, was it your judgment in November of 1981 -- A. Could I say that if you had gone one , 681814525

f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 iI 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 sentence further, you would have read, we will recognize that human nature is no newsman is entirely free from his prejudices, experience," et cetera. ~o on. Tinish. A. "... and opinions i00 percent objectivity may "I think such that own personal and that, accordingly, not always be possible." Finish the paragraph. A. That's all I had to say. O. Finish the paragraph, please. A, "But the important factor is that the news broadcaster and the Mews analyst ~st have the will and the intent to be objective. That will and that intent, genuinely held and deeply instilled in him, is the best assurance of objectivity. His aim should be to make it possible for the listener to know the facts and to weigh them carefully so that ! he can better make up his own mind," from a speech made in 1954 by Mr. Paley. O. X wonder if you could Just read the next sentence, too. ~. "It is recognized that the distinction between news analysis and editorializing may be hard ~o draw, due to the fact that a well-knit analysis

62 I r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 may may point toward a conclusion and in that Tespect resemble editorialization." Q, One more sentence, A. "When this occur~ special attention must be paid by the analyst to his ahoi~e of language in order to make clea~ that no editorialization is meant." Q, Thank you, s~r. Now, when you reported on November llth, 1981, that the people who sold Viceroy cigarettes were "liars," in quotes, did you then believe that that was an effort at objectivity on your part? A, You want me to recall exactly what I was thinking in 1981 when Z wrote a line? Q. I just want to know whether Or not you can. Maybe you have no recollection, Then say you have no recollection. I don't want yo~ to remember anything you don't remember, 1 just want to know if you have a recollection whether in 1981 when you called the manufacturers of Viceroy cigarettes liars, you were attempting then to be objective. A. I don't remember what I was thinking now when ~ wrote that thre~ ~d a half yeats ago. at,',,..,. , 681814527

63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 i2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Can you recall whether when you wrote the November ii, 1981, script, you were trying fairly to present both sides of a question? A. I don't remember what I was thinking when wrote that script. It's hard to remember three and a half years ago. Q. You don't remember what was in your mind? A. Night. Q. You do remember you wrote the script, though? A. I don't remember writing it. I do see it. O. You don't remember writing it? A. Yes. I mean, I don't remember sitting at my typewriter, what I was thinking, and how my hands were working. I see the script. It has a date. I wrote it, obviously. And I remember being involved in a series of reports on that subject. Q. But you don't remember the up to that? A. I remember some of them. Q. You remembe~ some of them? events leading

64 I I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. Well, what is your question? O. Do yo~ remember some of the events leading up to your writing the script? A. Yes. O. DO you have any recollection of dise~ssin9 with anybody at the time preliminary to the airing of that ~articular broadcast the question of objectivity? A. Repeat the question. O. Yes, sir. I will rephrase it. I am referring now in the next series of questions, you will understand, to the broadcast of November II, 1981, on the Perspective. Will yo~ understand that fo~ the next series of questions, *lezse? A. Yes. Q. With respect to that broadcast, do you lave eny recollection of speaking to anyone about the subject of objectivity? A. No. Q. DO you have any recollectlon of speakin9 to anyone on the matter of faiEn~ss? A, ~o specific ~e~oll~ti~n. DO yo~ h~ve any general rQcollection? • (;81814529

65 %. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 iO 11 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Do you have any recollection of speaking to anyone on the subject of presenting both sides of a question? A. NO, no recollection of conversations. Q. DO you have any recollection of thinking about fairness? A. l can't remember what I was thinking -- DO you have any recollection -- A. -- three and a half years ago. Q. -- of thinking about objectivity? A. " AS I was writing that script? Yes, sir. A. NO. Or thinking about presenting both sides of the question? I can't remember what I was thinking. DO you ba~e ~ny reuollection of communicating in writing with anybody or anybody communicating in writing with you On the questio~ of objectivity? NO. Fairness? A. NO. ~,o -.,: ..._.,o..._,.~ ,~ ~4=,~"--~==, d-o. 681814 530

66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 I? 18 Ig 20 21 22 23 24 O. Presenting both sides? A* NO, I don't. Mr. Jacobson, you have known for several weeks that you were going to be depomed, at least several weeks? A. Yes. Could you tell me what you have done to prepare for this d~posltion? A. Nothing, essentially nothing. O- You read nothing? A. I read my commentaries over. 0. The commentary that you delivered on November Ii? A. The three of them. Q. Dated November 9, November i0. and November ii? I'm not sure Of the dates. Why don't we mark them? MR. KLENK: Good idea. BY (WBEREUPO~, said documents were marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NOS. 2, 3, and 4, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) MR. LONDON: O- I show you, sir, Exhibits 2, 3, and 4 ~o, ~t~ • (312)782.8oe7

67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20" 21 22 23 24 for identification. (WHEREUPON, the documents tendered to the witness.) BY ME. LONDON: were Q. Is it correct those are the texts of the three broadcasts you have i~ mind? A. I don't have the tape here to compare, but I presume they are very close. Q. I will tell you the~e were documents produced by your counsel to us, And when you accept that, subject to correction, these are the texts of your broadcasts, is that right? A. Yes. Q. Is it correct, then, that you looked at the text of the three broadcasts represented by Exhibits 2, 3, and 4 -- A. Right. Q. -- to prepare for A. Yes. What else? A. I read -- I read Which part? A. The part that contained in the commentary. this deposition? part of the FTC report. the quote that was

u~ 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 O, A. NO. O - Those looked at? A. O. A. O. Anything else? are the only pieces of paper you Yes. Did you speak to anybody? What does that mean? Did you speak to anybody in connection with this deposition? A. I spoke to Gary and Jim, who said come here, and -- Q. I didn't ask you what they said to you. MR. KLENK: He j~s~ wants to know who you spoke with. BY MR. LONDON: ~. I asked you who you spoke to. You spoke to Mr. Klenk, who is your lawyer here? A. Right, right. Q. And Gary is who? A. Gary Cummings, the General manager. O. Tell me about your conversation with Mr. Cummings. MR. KLENK: objection, attorney-client privilege.

69 1 2 3 4 5 5 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 L5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .... .~*,o manager. MR. KLENK: this case. MR. LONDON: Who MR. KL~NK: CBS. on-the-spot agent MR. LONDON: enjoy? BY MR. LONDON: Q. Who w~s Mr. Cummings? MR. KLENK: BY THZ W~TNESS: A- Mr. Klenk, BY MR. LONDON: Anybody else? A- NO. And when did Yesterday. And how long A. Ten minutes. Where was it? A. CBS, Mr. Cummings is the station Yes. He is a Defendant in is a defendant? me is the managing for CBS. So what privilege does he Tell whim who that conversation occur? did it last? 681514534 ~;~fa, ff[[~,~, • ('J12)?82-eoa7

7O 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Did you speak A. Yes. O. Who? A. Tom Morsch. Q. Who is he? A. An attorney. Q. Sidley & Austin? A, Yes. MR. KLENK: Yes. BY MR. LONDON~ O. When did you Speak K, CBS, sa~e place. to anybody else? with him? Q. When? A. Yesterday. Bow long did that A. Hour, off and on. Q. Did you speak with anybody the subject of this litigation? A. Radutzky. O. When did you speak A. Yesterday. Where was that? A. In the newsroom. Q. Who was present i~ conversation last7 else about with him? this conversation? ~2o. -~u • ~3721781.808T

71 C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2D 21 22 23 24 A. whole newsroom. confined. Q. A. Q. to you? A. Well, who was present was virtually the I mean, it wasn't in any sense It was just in the newsroom. How long did that conversation last? About ten seconds. What did you say to him; what did he He said, "You're going in tomorrow?" And I say, "Yes." say He said, London's tough." O. What did A. "I can't I said to him. I Q. Did you this deposition? A. NO. Q. Did you A° No. Q. Look at A, No. MR. LONDON: "Just be careful, because you say to him? wait" -- I don't remember what am only being facetious. Okay. do anything else to prepare for speak to anybody else? any other pieces of paper? Jim, could you produce for me the second document that he told us about? He said he looked at two things. One, he looked at the art,,... , ,2jra2-ao r 681814536

72 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 lO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. KLENK: MR. KLENK: 4 and 5. EY MR. LOHDOE: I show you, two, he looked at -- I will do it right now. (WHEREUPON, there was a short interruption.) This is it. It's Radutzky Exhibits sir, documents that Rave been marked as Radutzky Exhibits 4 and 5 for ide~tificatian on ~une 28th, 1984. Are these the documents that you looked a~ in preparation for this deposition? (WEEREUPONI th~ documents were tendered to the witness.) BY TEE WITNESS= A. Yes, BY MR. LONDON= Q° H~ve you now given us your total conversation, aJ best you recall it, with Radutzky on the subject of this deposition? A. Yes. Q. Do you know anythin9 about what Radutzky testified to at his deposition? A. I do not. it is 681814537

73 t I 2 3 4 $ 6 7 8 9 1O Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. You have no information on that subject at all, sir? K. No, sir. Q. When you ~aid that you reviewe~ the broadcasts, the three broadcasts, in preparation for this deposition, I take it you did not review them in the form they are now before you 2, 3, and 4, is that correct? A. That's what I did review. 0. What is it that you reviewed? A. These three exhibits. O. In the form that they are currently in? Right. You didn't look at the tapes? Right. Turning your attention back, sir, if I do you have a recollection of when a Perspective or a subject of tobacco Ao O. A. O- may, to 1981, you first thought about doing series of Perspectives on the or cigarettes? A. I cannot -- I cannot recall O- Can you tell us approximately prior to the time the show was aired? A° NO, I can't, in Exhibits that. how long

74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 O. W~I 1 r=n you tell us whether it was more than a few days? A. Before they were on the air? Q. Yes. A. Yes. ~ can tell you that, not because I recall it, but because it would have been impossible to do all the research and get it on. Q. Was it more than a few weeks? A. I can't say that for sure. Q. So it may have been, but a few weeks from the germination of the idea to the production and the broadcast, correc%? A. That's possible. Q. And you just don't remember one way or the other? A. That's right. Q. DO you remember whose idea it was? A. NO, I don't. Q. Who did the research? A. Radutzky did the research. O. Do you have any recollection of discussing the matter with him while he was researching it? A. I don't specifically recall conversations. Q. Do you generally recall conversations? e,:,~o. ~,. , ¢3,2,~,,-,o,T 6 8 1 S 14 5 3 9

75 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. ! don't remember -- I don't ~emember that. O. No recollection of any conversations with him? A. Ho. Well, I mean, you said specifically and generally, YOU know, Z don't remember at what point I talked to Radutzky or at what point I did not. I assume that there must have been some conversations. Q. You assume there must have been some conversations? A. Of course. Q. But is it your testimony, as I understand it, that you don't remember them? A. That's right. I don't remember the conversations. Q. YO~ don't remembe~ their time, their number, or their substance, is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. Now, sir, what was Mr, Radutzky's with the station in the fall of 19817 A, He was a researcher assigned to the Perspective Unit of WBBM TV, Q. And how long had he been in that job ,"Wot[.,, ~.~o~+,j,.+~ ,,+,£ =4,..~.~.+., J~. 6 81 S 14 5 4 0 C~, J£~oa • r3~2; Te2.eoe7

76 t f 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 in the fall of '81? don't know. l can't remember that. More years or fewer years than you? Fewer. Many fewer? When was it; fall of 'BI? Yes, sir. Many fewer. You had been there approximately ten the time, right; at least you ha~ been capacity K. Q. A. O. A. Q. A, O. yea~8 at BBM? at A. Between eight and ten. Q. For how many years had you been doing the Walter Jacobson Perspective? A. The whole time, Q. You did the Perspective the moment you came back with BBM, is that correct? A. Close, close. O. And the Perspective is aired how many tames a week? A. Approximately ten, eight to ten, O. Is that five programs? A. Yes. Q. Each program is rebroadcast the

I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 lg 20 21 22 23 24 following day? A. Each Perspective is broadcast the following day which would add up to ken. Q. Monday through Frlday? A, Yes, Q. All done from scripts? A. Yes. Q. That you write? A. Yes. Q. And you are solely responsible for the content of those scripts? A. What does that mean? Q. I mean, you are the -- you have the last word? A. What doel that mean? O. Is there anybody in the station who has the authority to reject you~ script? A* Yes. Q. Who is that? A. The news director and the general manager. 0. So the news director and the general manager review your scripts before they are aired? Ao Yes. Q. Every time? cW,,t[,. ='?,,~.,.~,~ ,,J ,=,'t,,,,,a,,u,, _q,,,. e~,..~., arab,,, . ~,~,~e2-,os, 681814542

78 \ I 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 iO iI 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Ig 20 21 22 23 24 A. C~n't say for sure. O. But that's their job? A. Don't know what their Job is, O. That'S their general practice? A. My general practice is to give the script to the general manager and the news director, Q. And who was the general manager at the time -- A. Peter L~nd. O. -- in 19817 A. Peter Lund, MR. KLENK: Give him your best recollection. BY THE WITNESS: A. Peter Lund. BY MR. LONDON: Q. And who was the news managern news director? A. My best recollection is Frank Gardner. Q. And do you have a recollection of departing from that general practice with respect to Exhibit 4 for this deposition? A, NO recollection what happened between 5:30 an~ 6:30 that night, which is ordinarily the time my scripts go to the news director,

79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 O. What time is the program aired? A. i0 o'clock for the first time and 6 o'clock the following time, the following day. ZS it aired live or on tape~ Live at i0 o'clock and tape the next day at 6:00. 0- And it is your regular practice to submit the script that is to be aired live at 10:00 to the general manager and the news director at 5:30 that day, the day of the broadcast? A. The general practice is for me to give my script to an assistant who takes it. Well, I say that because he could have lost it, you know. O. Your general practice is to gave the s~ript at 5:30 p.m. -- A. Or 6:30 when I finish it. -- or 6:30 p.m. to somebody who carries it into the office Of the general manager -- A* No -- yes. -- and the news director, who are on same premises as you? A. Right. ~. On th~ s~me floor? the aa'.,,.,. . 681814544

bU 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. NO, News director -- O. Same building? A. Yeg. O. And it is your no. testimony that with respect to November 11, 1981, you have no recollection of any departure from your general practice, is that correct? A. Correct. Q. Now, sir, did the general manager or the news director say anything to you about this broadcast prior to the broadcast? A. I don't ~emember. Q. No ~ecollection one way or the other? A. No. Q. All right, sir. Whose responsibility was it to supervise Mr. Radutzky? A. Mine. Q. And did Mr. Radutzky prepare any drafts or outlines with respect to this November II, 1981, broadcast? A. TO the best of my recollection, he prepared sheets of typewritten paper. I don't know whether they were scripts or whatever the word you used. I don't know what they were. (WOE/,, • 681814545

J ! f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IO ii 12 13 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I mean, I can't recall what they were, Q. But you do -- A. I do have a recollection of receiving typewritten material from Michael. Q. And the typewritten material to, sir, relates to this broadcast, is A. Yes° MR. LONDON: exhibit, please? you referred that correct? Would you mark this as the next (WHEREUPON, said document was marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit No. 5, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) BY MR. LONDON: Q. I show you, sir, a document that the court reporter has just marked as Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NO. 5 that bears your lawyer's stamp Document NO. 1203, et seq., at the bottom. DO you see where it says up at the top, as best as I can read from this c0py, "An Outline"? (NUE~EUPON, the document w~s tendered to the witness.) BY THE WITNESS: A. Oh, "An Outline," yes. 6 1814546

~z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 BY So document BY -- that MR. LONDON: MR. KLENK: MR. LONDON: Q. MR. I.ONDOW~ Q. It is my understanding -- and I tell you that you should know what I know about this it was produced by you~ lawyers. Is that correct, Mr. Klenk? That's correct. And while I wasn't here yesterday or on previous dmys, I understand it was also marked at the doposition of Mr. Radutzky, but I don't know what number. MR. KLENK: That's correct. I don't recall what number, either. MR. LONDON= I think it's also correct that Mr. Radutzky testified that he is the author of this document and he gave it to Mr. Jacobson, is that correct, sir? MR. KDENK: Am I the witness? I think that that's correct. MR. LONDON~ Okay. Off the record. BY MR. LONDON: (WHEREUPON, discussion was off the record.) ha~

83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1O II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. N~w. sir, I show you Exhibit 5 deposition and ask whether this document your recollection about whether gave you an outline with regard broadcasts? A. This (indicating)? MR. KLENK: Read the whole thing. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Take your time. I don't mean to rush yOU. okay BY MR. of this refreshes or not Mr. Radutzky to the cigarette BY DO you want a recess to read it2 It's with me. (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.) LONDON: DO you remember the question? Q. THE WITNESS: A. This is a Eadutzky outline and I can see that. I have a vague memory of -- yes, it is. Okay. BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you have any recollection of how much in advance of the broadcast on November ii, 1981, you got this Outline from Mr. Eadutzky? A. NO, I don't. . G8:1.814548

~4 I T I 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. I wish you would turn, please, sir j to the page that's marked 1208. I wonder if you could read, please, the second sentence on the page, A. "Secret documents we have obtained show how the Brown & Williamson Company, makers of KOOl, Barklay, Belair, Viceroy, Arctic Lights and duMaurier, plotted to confuse and mislead the public about the health hazards of smoking." And -- A. Dum-da-dum-dum. And the next sentence, please? MR. KLENK: I will stipulate that Mr. Jacobson can read. MR. LDNDONI It is JUSt one sentence. Zt is not a test. BY MR. JACOBSON: A. "The documents, subpoenaed from 3town & Williamson by the Federal Trade Commission and turned over by the company in 1979, have been sealed for two years under a court order." BY MR. LONDON: O. NOW, sir, did you see the secret documents referred to in those two sentences?

85 r I 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 K. ~ don't know whst documents this refers to, so I can't answer that question. Q. Did you ask Mr. Radutzky what documents it referred to? A. I don't remember what I asked him. Q. DO you remember what documents that you saw? A. I don~t remember what documents that I SaW. Q. Did you see any documents from Brown & Williamson? A. I don't remember what documents I saw. Q. Do you have -- A. Bad memory. Q. So far as you know, does CBS have a document destruction policy? A. oh, my God. Not that I know Of. Q. DO you, personally, have a document destruction policy? NO policy whatever. DAd you destroy any documents that relate to this case at any time since NoVember, 1981, to this date? A. I never destroyed anything.

! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 his case? A. had of his A. O- Did you ever discuss with Mr. Radutzky destruction of douuments relating to this I didn't know that he destroyed any. Q. Did Mr, Radutzky ever tell you that he destroyed documents that relate to this case? A. NO, he didn't. Did he ever tell you he threw away psrt file after this case began? I don't remember him telling me that. Did you throw away any part of your file what I threw after this case began? A. I have no recollection of away and didn't. O. It is possible that you may have away part of your file a~d you just it? A. Anything is possible. O- AS best you recall, it is thrown don't re~ember possible that you did and it's possible that you didn't, is that what your answer is? MR. KLENK: Objection. YDU a~k~d him whether he recalled doing it and he gave you an answer. Yo~ are going over the same ground.

87 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY MR* T,ONDnN: Q. Do Z understand the state of your recollection to be that you don't know or remember that you did or you didn't, is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. Do you have any recollection of what those secret documents said? A. NO, I don't. O. DO you have a~y recollection of looking at them in 19817 A. NO, I don't. O. Did you know prior to November ii, 1981, that Mr. Radutzky had spoken with somebody at Brown & Williamson Corporation? November A. NO -- prior to -- NOvember Ii, the date of the broadcast. A. Repeat it. Q. I will ask the question again. Did you know ~rior to the broadcast on II, 1981, that Mr. Radutzky had spoken to somebody at the Brown & William$on Corporation? A. I don't remember now what I knew back then, really. Q. Does it refresh your recollection if I

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 mention that there has been testimony to the effect that Mr. Radutzky spoke to a representative of Brown & Williamson Corporation before the broadcast who denied some of the things contained in the script? A. It tells me that Radutzky said certain things. Q. My question is -- I am not trying to have you comment on what Radutzky said. I Just want to know if it refreshes your recollection. A. It doesn't refresh a recollection of what went on between me and Radutzky back then. Sorry. Q. can you recall any reason you had or might have had for rejecting any suggestion that Brown & Williamson's denial be included in your broadcast? MR. KLENK: objection. Your Complaint says that there was a denial in the broadcast. Are you trying to mislead him? MR. LONDON: No, I am not trying to mislead him at all. MR. KLENK: It's alleged in your Complaint, Marry. MR. LONDON: I am not asking him about the Complaint. I am asking him what occurred in November, 1981~

4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR, KLERK: MR, LONDON: again, please? MR. KLENK: Are you able THE WITNESS: Oh. what you were doinga I BY MR. LONDON: 0. That's the reread? A. Yes. (WHEREUPON, I'm sorry. DO you want to read the question (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested as follows: "Q. Can you recall any reaso~ you had or might have had for rejecting any suggestion that Brown & Williamson's denial be included in your b£oadcast?") Same objection. to answer the question? I was so interested in forgot the questioK. problem. Do you want it the record was read by the reporter as requested as follows: "Q. Can you ~ecall any reason you had or might have had 681814554

9O 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ll 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 for rejecting any suggestion that Brown & Williamson's denial be included in your broadcast?") BY TNE WITNESS: A, My answer is no. I don't remember reasons for doing things three and a half years ago, nor do I remember the suggestion, BY MR. LONDON: NOW, sir, i~ around November, '81, Radutzky was working on stories An addition to this o~e, correct? A. I don't remember what he was doing in November of '81. Q, Well, was he attached to the Perspective Unit? A. Yes, yes. Q. Who employed Radutzky; who hired him? A, WBBM. Q. Were the people in the Perspective Unit on WBBM's payroll or yours? A, BBM's. Q. And BBM hired them and fired them? A. Right. Q. Paid their salary?

f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Paid all the cost of production? A. Right. Q- But you were Radutzky's supervisor? A. Right. Q. And he did research and writing for many Perspectives other than the tobacco ones, correct? A. Yes, that's correct. Q. And is it correct that he at any one time would be working on several different programs at once? A. That certainly is a possibility. O. Only a possibility? A. Yes. Q. You don't know? A. NO, because he may have been working on this one exclusively for a period. I don't remember Q. And was it your responsibility to supervise Radutzky not only with respect to the cigarette broadcasts but with respect to the other broadcasts he was working on? A. Yes. Q. And was it your general practice in supervising him to speak to him about the projects 681514556

92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Ig 20 21 22 23 24 he was researchlng? A. At some point in the process. Q. And was it your duty as his supervisor to make a~ effort to assure that he was accurate? MR. KLENK| Object to the form of the question. You can answer it. BY MR. LONDON: Q. You may answer. A. No, Whose duty was that? A. Nobody's. Were there any circumstances in which you ever ~ndeEtook any steps to check On the accuracy of things Radutzky had reported to you? A. Oh, of course, before I put something on the air, always, as best we could. O. And before you put 8omething on the aiT, who in your organization had in November, 1981, responsibility to do that check? A. The ultimate responsibility would have been mine. with O. And did you discharge that responsibility respect to the broadcast on November II, 19817 A. I am certain that I did. I don't remember

93 1 2 3 4 • 5 6 ? 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 what happened in November of '81, but I am certain did. O. So it is correct that while you have no recollection of this particular broadcast, you do have a recollection that generally it was your duty and one that you faithfully discharged to check on the facts as best you could prior to airing the program? A. It always was and it is and I presume it always will be my duty to try to be accurate. Q. And does that include checking the facts you broadcast? A. It includes whatever is necessary to make certain that I am as accurate as I can possibly be. Q. Does that mean checking the facts as well as other things? A. You have to define to me what you mean by "checking the facts," because they vary in every situation. Q. Mr. Jacobson, you told me three minutes ago that you always, to the best of your ability, check the facts before the broadcast, correct? A. Always do what is necessary. O. To check the facts? "i

94 f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ID II ~2 ~3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. To make sure" I am accurate. Q. And if your broadcast has some factual content, then you do what is necessary to assure that the factual content is correct, yes? A. Yes. O- And when Mr. Radutzky comes to you with an outline or a suggestion that contains factual assertionst you do something to check those facts, yes? A. If 1 am going to use them on the broadcast. O- You do? A. Yes. O. ~s that correct? A. If I am going tO use -- O. You can't nod your head. That's all I ~e~n, A. If I am going to use them On the broadcast. O. Then you check the facts? A. Yes, O. Wow, ~ir -- you mean by A. Do yOU want to define what "check the facts"? Well, I am going to ask you that question. Let me ask you another question first. /: • i c~:,:.~,., -~'~.... , ,'3~2±Ta2-eo87 ~ g 1 ~ 1 4 5 5 9

95 ! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ~9 20 21 ~2 23 24 Are there people other than -- in November, 81 -- I'll keep it less confusing -- were there ,eople in addition to Radutzky who did what Radutzky did? A. Yes. Q. Now many? A. I think two others at that time. Q. What were theiE names? A. One's name was Sond~a Steele, S-o-n-d-r-a, Steele, S-t-e-e-l-e. And the other -- ~ mean, they overlapped here and there. But the other was Joe Kolina, K-o-l-l-n-a. Q. And did they report direGtly to you or was there somebody in the organization between you and !those people? A. Directly to me, Q. Prio~ to the time that you did the final script, was there anybody else in the organization whose duty it was to look at the m~terial produced hy Steele, Kolina, or Radutzky? NO. Q. Oid Steel~, Kolina, or ~adutzky have any people working for them? A. NO, not that I know of. GeleI45G0 !

96 ) 3- 9 J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~. ~c Within the Perspective organization, there were basically two levels with respect to this kind of thing; there was the Radutzky, Steele, Kolina level, and then there was Jacobson? A. Except that Radutzky, Steele, and Kolina had the authority to hire a photographer for a day's worth of work or to get some extra research. Q. I understand. A. Or hire a court reporter or something like that. Q. NOW, sir, so you supervised these three people; Steele, Kolina, and Radutzky? A. Yes. O. When one of these researchers -- is it fair to call them researchers? A. Yes. Q. (Continuig) -- came to you with an outline or some sheets of typewritten material with respect to a program and you determined to put it on the air to write a script incorporating some of those facts, ks there anybody you called upon to help you check the facts? A. In general? Q. Yes. In 1981, November -- at or about , 68/814561 L~ >:

97 -- i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 November, ~8i. A. There were people I could have called on depending on the specific set of facts I needed to check out. Q. There were people available to you to do that work7 A. In some instances. Q. And who were those people? A. Oh, my God. I mean, it would Just depend. You have to give me a specific. Q. People who work for BBM? A. Oh, no. no. Outside. Q. You employed outside services to check facts? A. NO. If I wanted to check a fact that was presented to me by one of my assistants about pla~s for the Democratic Con~entio~, I would call or could call the chairman of the Democratic party or staff member or the C~icago Central Committee. Q. So that if one of your researchers brought you a story and the story said something about the plans for the convention, you could call up some person you knew or Eomebody who knew somebody and check that fact?

4 J ) 3 J i 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 98 A. l could, But you don't always? A. NO. Q. And what criteria do you ~se to determine which facts to check A. You want to give because the criteria don't equally? Q. Well, how dO yOU fact and when not to? and which facts not to check? me a specific example apply to all stories decide when to check a A. Depends on the information that is given to me and the story that is proposed, the nature of the story. Q. Tell me how the process works or did work in '81 as to what facts Walter Jacobson would think need checking and what facts Walter J~co~son thinks would not need checking. A. On what story? Q. On any story. A. You want me to make up a hypothetical? Q. I want the standards. A. There are no standards. Q. It is Walter Jacobson's j~dgment, correct? You have a judgment --

4 99 1 2 3 4 )J 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 )t" 13 i4 15 tt 16 17 19 2O J 21 22 23 24 3 A. What is my judgment? -- which facts to check and which facts to not check? A. I make my judgments on the whole operation -- Q. Okay. A. -- having to do with every aspect of it. Q. So if somebody wrote a story and said that the Democratic Convention is in San Francisco this year, you wouldn't bother to check that fact because that is something you knew to be true -- A. Correct. Q. -- is that right? A. Yes. O. And if somebody else wrote a story and accused a major political figure of a serious indiscretion -- A. If one of my assistants did, you mean? Yes, (Continuing) --- or a crime, that would be something you would want to check before you broadcast it, yes? A. Oh, sure.

I ~ lOg -4 C ! J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2D 21 22 23 24 O. SO is it fair to say that to the extent that the story contains something of an attack or of a derogatory nature, that would be something you would want to check? A. Well, I think you would have to define what you mean by "~n attack" or "derogatory." Q. You don't know what derogatory means? A. NO, no. I mean, I know what I think it means. I don't think I do anything derogatory. I present facts. If you happen to think they are derogatory, that's your impression. Q. You didn't think your November broadcast was derogatory to the makers of Brown & Williamson? A0 No. O. YOU thought calling them liars was derogatory? A. No. They may have thought that. You don't think 607 A, NO. Q. You don't think that's bad? A. I thought at the time what I was saying was accurate. ~. Can't accurate things be derogatory? / ii aa'o,.. , 681814565

101 2 3 4 )1 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 14 15 i6 17 18 19 2O ) 21 22 23 :- 24 ¢1 MR. KLENK: Let's not argue. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Well, do you think derogatory means inaccur~te~ A. That's a good question. Well. as a journalist -- I think that derogatory, coming from a journalist, is inaccurate. I would have to think that out. It is a philosophical question. We can discuss it some other time. O. DO you know what an attack on a political leader is? A. I know what an attack on a political leader is, yes. O. If one of your researchers brought a story to you that involved an attack on a political leader that was based on a fact a researcher had found, would you check the fact before you broadcast it? A, Yes, O. Would you ~heck the facts if it were an" attack on a private -- A. ~f Mondale made an attack on ~e~gan, I would report that M0ndale attacked Reagan without

102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ~9 20 21 22 23 24 checklA~. Q. If one of your reporters came to you with an outline that said, "I have secret information that is extremely unfavorable to Mondale, d£sparages him," you would say, "I want to check those facts before I broadcast it," right? A. Right. or have him demonstrate to me the accuracy of his facts. I understand. And if the fact was based on a secret document, you would say, "Let me see it." right? A. Yes, Q. Did you do that when Mr. Radutzky came to you in 1981 with a story about secret documents from Brown & Williamson? A. I'm sorry. I have to repeat that I don't remember what went on between me and Radutzky in November of '81. Q. BUt if you had followed your normal practices, yo~ would have said, "Show me the document,'* or perhaps you wouldn't have had to ask; he would have showed you the document, right? A. But really that's so iffy. I don't 681814567 I

103 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 remember what happened, Q. I just asked you about your practices. That would have been your practice, is that right? A. Yes. Q. Now, sir -- A. Yes. Q. -- who selects the used on your ~erspective? A. Ultimately, I do. Q. Somebody might make suggestions in advance? A, O. A. Q. station A. YeS* The decision is yours? normal normal graphics that are to views of the news directory subject to them, although discuss the question of with the news director? Yes. Subject, of course, ~anager and the Everything is they don't -- yes. Q. Did you ever the CBS news standards A. I don't remember having discussions with any specific news director at any specific time about the standards, How6ver, we have had seminars 681814568

104 ) ) J ) ) J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 and co,vu£sations over the years. It has been 16 yearm. I don't remember all the news directors, Go tell you the truth, or 9eneral managers. Q. Is it correct, then, that you occasionslly do have seminars that relate to the CBS new8 standards? A. standards US. Q. A. Q. occasionally there are instances when the are refreshed or updated or discussed with A, Q. A. Q, A. MR. About how frequently does that occur, I don't know. The best Of your recollection. I can't recall at all. Once every couple of years, perhaps? Sounds okay. $ou~d~ right? It doesn't sound wrong. LONDOn: Off the record. (WHErEUPOn, the depositia~ wxs adjourned until I=00 p.m., this date, July 12, 1984.) sir? 681814569 d~z,,,~o, D[[~u • t31217s24087 C i

105 t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 2O 21 22 23 24 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) SS: COUNTY OF C 0 0 K ) I, JULIK ~NS CO~EOY, a ~ot~ry Public within and for the COUnty of Cook, state of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand RepOrter of said state, do hereby certify: That previous to the commencement of the examination of the witness, the witness was duly sworn to testify the whole truth concernin~ the matters herein; That the foregoing deposition transcript was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter reduced to typewriting under my personal direction and and That the me at the time and That the stated herein; constitutes a true record Of the testimony given the proceedings had~ said deposition was taken before place specified; said deposition was adjourned as That I am not a relative or employee or attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel for any of the pa~ties hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in the outcome of this action, J 681814570

106 f L # 3 ! ) J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 2~ 24 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago, Illinois,1984. this ~_~ day of ~ ..... ~ ..... C.S.R. o .ry ob io. °oo - y ~u~i~un expires April 6, 1988. Certificate No. 84-2251. I ! J ~o~ 681814571 C~a, -~u.oLa • (312)7aa~o87

G~1814572

107 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS EASTERN DIVISION BROWN & WILLIAMSON CORPORATION, WALTER JACOBSON TOBACCO Plaintiff, and CBS, INC., Defendants. No. 82 C 1648 July 12, 1984, l:O0 p.m. The deposition of WALTER JACOBSON resumed pursuant to recess at Suite 3000, One First National Plaza, Chicago, Illinois. sae

10S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PRESENT: MESSRS. PAUL, WEISS, RIFKIND, WHARTON & GARRISON, (345 Park Avenue, New York, New York 10154), by: MR. MARTIN LONDON, appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff; MESSRS. REUBEN & PROCTOR, (19 South LaSalle Street, Chicago, Illinois 60603), by: MR. JAMES A. KLENK, -and- CBS, INC., (51 West 52nd Street, New York, New York 10019), by: MR. DOUGLAS P. JACOBS, on behalf of the Defendants. appeared REPORTED BY: SHARYN A. EVERMAN, C.S.R. sae

I09 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 iB 19 20 21 22 23 24 WALTER JACOBSON By Mr. London Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NO. 6 NO. 7 NO. 8 NO. 9 NO. i0 NO. II NO. 12 II0 144 146 147 148 150 184 192 sa~

II0 i. ! 1 + 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 WALTER JACOBSON, called as a witness herein, having been previously duly sworn and having testified, was examined and testified further as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) BY MR. LONDON: Oo Mr. Jacobsonw when you saw Radutzky 4 and Radutzky 5 in preparation for this deposition, when was it that you saw them? A. I can't answer that. I have no idea. I don't remember. I have no idea. MR. KLENK: Are you -- MR. LONDON: Let me go back. MR. KLENK: I'm not sure h8 MR. LONDON: Let me ask the BY MR. LONDON: Q. Do you recall testifying this morning, sir that yo~ looked at certain documents in preparation for this deposition? A. Yes, yes, I think I do. Q. DO you recall testifying that one of the documents you looked at or One of the things you looked at was the text of three cigarette broadcasts] A. Right. understands. question again. sae ,'WOE#. ,..,2 _.q,.+. e+,,,+°, . ,+++,+j7,.,++0,7 681814576

Iii r- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 u. Do you recall also testifying that another thing that you can recall looking at was an excerpt from the FTC report that was also mentioned in the November llth, 1981 broadcast? A. Right. Q. DO yo~ remember that? A. Yes. Q. And do you recall that 1 asked your counsel, Mr. Klenk, to produce for us those fragments that you looked at in connection with deposition, and he was kind enough to give us Radutzky Exhibit 4 and Radutzky Exhibit 5? Do you recall that now, sir? A. Yes. Q. And are Eadutzky 4 and 5 the documents that you looked at in preparation for this deposition? A. 0. A. Q. them? A. O. Yesterday, yes. And you looked at them yesterday? Y~s° And who was present when you looked at this Jim Klenk. Okay. And is it your recollection now c+,+++. _,+_+it,+... 681814572

112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 g lO ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 that those two documents and Exhibits 2, 3, and 4 marked in today's deposition are the only things you looked at it? A. That's right. Nothing else? A. Nothing else. Q. Now, sir, when you looked at Radutzky 4 and 5, which are the documents in your right hand -- A. Right. Q. -- yesterday, did it refresh your recollection yesterday that you had seen them in 19817 A. No. Q. As you sit here today, has anything that has transpired, including the perusal of Radutzky 4 and Radutzky 5, refreshed your recollection as to what, if anything, you saw in November, '81, in connection with this broadcast aside from the Radutzky outline? A. No. Q. And as you sit here now, are you able t~ report to us any recollection of anything you looked at aside from the Radutzky outline, Exhibit 5, prior to delivering the broadcast in question that's the sac . 6818145.78"

i13 C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 subject A. Q, graphics? A. slides, Q. that were else? A. Q. you were A. Q. A. Q. A. MR. MR. question of thls lawsuit? Some of the pictures. That were used ON the broadcast, the Well, they weren't graphics- They were as I remember. Aside from looking at some of the slides used, you can recall looking at nothing That's right. Of course, you can recall, I assume, that reading from a script? When I delivered it? Yes, sir. Sur~. A script that you had prepared? Yes. JACOBS: Can I just have 30 seconds? (WHEREUPON, there was a short interruption.) KLENK: Could you read back the last and answer, please? (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested, as sa~ . 681814579

114 i 2 3 4 5 8 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 follows: "Q. I assume, from -A. "Q. prepared? ..A. Of course, you can recall, that you were reading a script? "A. When I delivered it? "Q. Yes, sir. Sure. A script that you had yes.") BY MR. LONDON: Q. Sir, do you know whether anybody in your organization made any effort to check in or about November, '81, with the advertising agency that was mentioned in your perspective? A. I can't -- I don't know if anyone did. MR. KLENK: I object to the form of the question. It suggests that an advertising agency was mentioned in the perspective. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Well, sir, in the beginning of the perspective, you make references to, and ~ quote, quote, "the slicksters on Madison Avenue," close quote. sae

115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 You were referring agencies, I take it, is that A. Well, not agencies but to advertisers. look there to advertising correct? or specific agencies, Q. Advertisers? A. People, promoters -- I guess at it. O. Yes, sir. A. Right. You were referring there to agencies, is that correct, sir? A. Advertisers. Certainly no ad agency. "Gone to the ad business in New York." That's generic. Madison Avenue I always thought meant the ad business. Q. By manufacturer I'd have to advertising "ad business," do you mean the whose product was being sold or do you mean the agency that was helping the manufacturer advertise his product? A. No one specifically. I meant just generically the ad business. Q. The business of creating and facilitating advertising? A. That's right. sae

116 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 1 Q. You recognize that the people who do that have clients, and they're called advertisers, is that correct? A. I don't know if that's correct. Q. You don't know if that's correct. Is WBBM an advertiser? A. Is WBBM an advertiser? Q. Yes. A. Does WBBM advertise its product? Q. Yes. A. Yes. Q. Do you consider that WBBM is in the ad business? A. No. Q. DO you consider yourself in the ad business? A. NO. Q. You are the subject of advertisements, aren't you? A. Yes, but l'm not in the ad business. Q. You use an advertising agency, don't you? A. We do. Q. You consider them in the ad business? A. That's the ad business. That's what I sac

117 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 consider the ad business. Q. Your advertising agency? A. Yes. Q. And when you wrote that "the killer business has gone to the ad business in New York for help, to the slicksters on Madison Avenue," you were adverting to the tobacco industry going to the adverfising agencies, isn't that A. I was referring to the going to the ad business -- Q. All right. A. -- in New York. Q. Okay. A. And spending a billion Q. And the ad business in correct? tobacco business dollars- New York was advertising agencies, correct? A. Well, I don't know. I can't say. Q. Who else could -- A. There could be Joe Shmoe, you got a great idea for selling cigarettes So he goes to the cigarette company and sell you -- I'ii create a great ad for could be the Joe Shmoe ad business. Q. That's who you are referring the know, who's or tanks. saysj "I'll you." So it to? "" ................... 681814583

118 1 2 3 4 S 5 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. NO. I don't know an agency from an individual. Q. Could you tell me what you meant when you used the word "slickster"? A. Sure -- wait a minute. I cannot say to you what I was thinking on the day I wrote this script. If you are asking me today what I mean when I say "slickster," l can give yOU an answer. Q. Okay. What is it? A. A slickster is a person who has creative ideas to win a point. A slickster is a person who is good with words and pictures. This is what it means to me. A slickster is a person who can sell you a used car or a cigarette or a TV station. Q. Because he's good with words and pictures? A. Yes. That's what a slickster means to me. Q. Are you a slickster? A. Pretty much -- yes, I could be a sllckster. Q. All right, sir. Now, you had read -- withdrawn. Did you make any effort before you delivered on the air Exhibit 4 to identify the slickster that was responsible for the cigarette s~e

119 C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 advertising that was the subject of the last part of your November llth, 1981 perspective? A. NO, not that I recall. I take it, then, that having made no effort to identify that person or organization, you made no effort to check any facts with that person or organization? MR. KLENK: That was not his testimony. He said he didn't recall, not BY MR. LONDON: Q. Is that correct? A. I'm not sure what that he didn't. you mean. Q. Did you make any effort to verify the facts contained in the latter part of your perspective with that person or organization? A. The latter part? Q. Referring to Viceroy, from Viceroy on down. A. That last paragraph? The last two paragraphs -- three, four paragraphs. A. Now again. Q. I'm part of the try to give it to me referring now to the perspective that refers to Viceroy and thereafter. A. Okay. All right. sac

120 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 2I 22 23 24 Q. That's found on the document you're looking at on the last paragraph Of Page i of Exhibit 4 and the following three paragraphs. Do you see that, sir, on the next page? A. Okay. Q. That's referring to Viceroy, right? A. Right. Now, sir, did you in connection with four paragraphs make any effort to check the accuracy of the facts contained therein -- A. For example, sir? Q. Let me finish the question. Did you make any effort to check the accuracy of the facts contained therein with the person or organization in the ad business who was responsible or who helped with the advertising? A. I need to be asked by you which facts. Who knows whose fault it is that children are smoking? That's not a f~ct. What facts could I have checked? If you ask me which facts I could have checked, I'd probably tell you I checked them, because I always check my facts or try. Q. What efforts did you make to check the those sac

121 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 accuracy of the phrase "the Viceroy strategy"? Do you see that phrase down at the bottom? A. Right, "the'Viceroy strategy for attracting young people." Q. What efforts did you make to ascertain if Viceroy had a strategy? A. I am reporting on the federal report which says Viceroy strategy. Q. And that's all? A. SO I'm quoting the federal report. Q. You made no other effort to check the accuracy of that fact? A. No, that's not true. We called -- no, I'm not sure exactly what Michael Radutzky did, so X better wait for a specific question. No, it is not true that we did not check further. Q. What else did you do? A. Radutzky called Brown & Williamson, I think, and -- What else? A. That's it -- I don't know what else. I don't know what else. Q. You started to stay something more? You sac .am.,,°,.. ++,++,7+++o++7 6 1814587

122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 iO Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 said "and"? A. I don't know what I was going to say. I don't know what I was going to say- Honest to God, I don't know what I was going to say. Q. Okay. So you know that Radutzky called Brown & Williamson, but you don't know anything else~ A. I believe he did. I was not on the telephone. Q. But you remember that now, or is that something you just picked up in here today? A. NO- I -- I can't tell you how I remember it. I remember it. Q. You do remember it? A. l remember -- I remember Radutzky saying he called Brown & Williamson. Q. And what did Radutzky say in that conversation -- A. I can't remember -- Q. -- on that subject? A. I can't remember what he said other than something -- I mean, get Radutzky in here. He said something like Brown & Williamson said that i£ was not -- it did not have a strategy of attracting young people. sae ee, o,, , 681814588

123 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~ometning to that effect he told you? A. Yes. Q. What did you say? A. I don't remember that conversation. Q. You don't remember anything else about the conversation? A. It's hard for me to distinguish between wh~t I think I might have said, knowing my standards and my way of operating, and what I actually did say in the conversation with Radutzky, which is why I'm hesitating here. If you phrased your question differently, I might be able to answer it. But l'm afraid to tell you what Radutzky said and didn't say and what I said and didn't say, because I don't want to make a mistake in our exchange. This is very important, and I want to be accurate. Q. It is indeed, sir. Let me give you an explanatory statement of what I'm asking you for so we don't have any misunderstanding. A. Okay. Q. What I'm asking you for now is whatever you can recall. Now, sometimes you might have a strong recollection of something and sometimes you sae

t i 124 I' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 might have a weak recollection of something. And I don't have any difficulty in your qualifying your statement that this is a good recollection or a not so good recollection. But what I'm asking you for now is something you recall. If you don't recall it, then I expect you to tell the truth and say you don't recall it. I don't want you to give me a guess of what you think is logical you might have said in the circumstances or some assumption of what somebody like you might have said to somebody like Radutzky. Do you understand the distinction I'm making, sir? A. Yes, I recall -- okay. Q. Now, you that Brown effect of they do. It's hard -- okay. I do- I the question is: When Radutzky told & Williamson said something to the don't have a strategy of selling cigarettes to youngsters, what else do you recall either Radutzky saying to you or you saying to Radutzky? A. I recall Radutzky saying something about Brown & Williamson being unwilling or not following through on its denial of the strategy, like -- I sae

125 5~e 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 1 can't create a conversation. I recall -- I recall Radutzky saying that Brown & Williamson denied it, but -- and I'm looking at this script now; and I can tell you that 1 am certain that if the denial from Brown & Williamson seemed reasonable to me, specifically it would have been in there the way Brown & Williamson said it- See, itts all in here, Marty. There is -- the cigarette business denies it, denies it, denies it. I say that. And it is -- and then the Viceroy strategy for attracting young people, if Brown & Williamson denied it -- well, the government countered Brown & Williamson's denial. Q. Now, sir, with whom did you eat this afternoon? A. These three gentlemen. Q. Mr. Klenk? A. Mr. Cummings and Mr. Jacobs. Q. Did the subject matter Of this deposition come up at lunch? A. It came up. It came up, yes. Q. Is your recollection about the events of 1981 a little better this afternoon than it w~s this morning? " 681814591

126 i- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 i9 2O 21 22 23 24 A. O. A. O. A. 0. remember afternoon A. Q. A. O. NO. Not any better, is it? NO. We didn't discuss it. You didn't discuss 19SI? NO. Something occurred to enable you to the piece that you remembered this that you didn't remember this morning? 2 see this (indicating). What are you pointing to? Z see Exhibit 4. When did you first see Exhibit 4? You saw that yesterday, didn't you? A. Yes- O. You saw it this morning? A. Yes. Now you were directing my attention specifically to a paragraph and asking me a specific question. See, I'm confused between what I know I should damn well have done and what I can picture sitting at the typewriting and Radutzky sitting across from me. And I'm reading this, and I 'm getting confused between what our language was and what I would have said. sae

127 see 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Q. Okay. And do you understand I don't want you to tell me ~ntll I ask for it what you damn well should have done or what you would have said? A. I understand. Q. You understand A. That's right. between those. Q. When you sit and look now and look at the material on to you, is it not, that that? I'm trying to distinguish at that paragraph Page 2, it's clear what you damn well should have done was put in here something at least about what Brown & Williamson said in response to this charge? A. Now you're asking me what I think about it now, right? Q. Yes. A. The answer to that question is no. Q. Okay. YOU don't think you should have put that in there? A. No. Q. All right, sir. A. I don't think I should have or shouldn't have. I don't think it was incumbent upon me to include -- I don't know. What? What's your

128 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 question? Q. What Radutzky told you Brown & Williamson Corporation said. A. Well, you are talking about now, and I can't remember what exactly it was that Radutzky said Brown & Willlamson said. Q. You just know that Radutzky told you that they denied having a strategy for selling cigarettes to children -- A. Denied -- Q. -- isn't that correct? A. Yes. That's not a specific. Okay. Q. And I'm asking you now as you sit here now and as you read those paragraphs now with that information now, is it your judgment that that ought to have been included in this perspective? A. No more than it is. It is. It is. Q. Okay. A. "The cigarette business insists that it's not selling cigarettes to children." That's a denial. It's a whole paragraph. Q. All right, sir. Now, did you have any conversation with -- at any time with anybody in connection with the November llth broadcast about a s~e ..d,,,. ,; c ,2, 7,2 ,0,7 681814594

129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IO ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 confidential source? A. Did you say have I Q. Yes. in connection ever? with this broadcast. A. Well. I see it here {indicating). Q. What are you pointing to. sir? You have to say the words. A. I'm pointing to Jacobson Deposition Exhibit No. 5. Q. And what is it you are referring to in there, sir? A. I'm referring to my having read this morning that Radutzky said he had a confidential -- or had a secret memo. but now I don~t see it. Q. Secret documents? A. Secret documents. Q. Documents subpoenaed from Brown & Rilliamson? A. I guess. Q. Page 12087 A. Yes. Q. Is that what you are referring to? A. Yes. secret documents that we have obtained Q. Okay. Now. sir. other than those secret documents, any other conversations or communications

130 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 in any form at any time relating to this broadcast with respect to confidential sources? A. I recall none or I don't recall any. Q. Have you any recollection of who proposed any of the graphics or illustrations or slides that were used in connection with the broadcast? And again, yo~ understand throughout these questions that when I speak of the "broadcast," I am speaking of the November ll, 1981 perspective? Do you understand that, sir? A. Yes. Q. Any recollection of how those particular images came to be chosen? A. Yes, I do have a few. Q. All right, sir. A. I recall -- MR. KLENK: Wait till he asks you. BY THE WITNESS: A. Yes. BY MR. LONDON= Q. Tell us what you rscall. A. I recall Radutzky telling me what kinds of pictures he proposed there in the memo, and X recall making some suggestions for what kind of pictures to sac :Wo£[=, J.=.

131 ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 get to £ill out our report. Q. Do you have a recollection that for parts of the program, when you were talking about the matter that's included in the last four paragraphs of Exhibit 4, there was portrayed upon the screen a picture of two Viceroy cigarette packs and a golf club and a golf ball? A* I don'trecall. Q. Let me show you, sir, some documents which I will describe for the record. They're very poor copies, but perhaps you'll recognize them. I show you Exhibit B to the complaint in this action, which is, I believe, a photograph of what appeared on the television screen during this perspective. TO the right there is a part of the perspective that was printed on the screen, and to the left there is a Viceroy ad* Those are two Viceroy packs. Do you see that, sir? A. I see this exhibit, yes. Q. Yes. And do you have any recollection of who selected the Viceroy ad to the left of the text in that slide? A. I don't remember who selected it. sae

132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. And indeed, do you recall who it was who decided upon the graphic presentation of this with the language on the right and the Viceroy ad on the left both projected on the screen at the same time? A. I don't recall that. You're talking about the process Of putting these together? Q. Yes, sir. A. That's three and a half years ago; and who said exactly what to whom, X just can't recall. Q. But the decision as to which ones to use, which language to use on the screen, and which pictures to use on the screen is yours? A. Ultimately it's my responsibility. Q. Your responsibility. And that responsibility you exercise and discharge, yes? A. I'm responsible for what's there. I can't tell you for certain that I made this suggestion. I approved it i~ I didn't make it. Q. All right, sir. DO you have any recollection of -- do you have any recollection of being involved at all in the creative process with respect to, for example, Exhibit F to the complaint, which has on its right-hand side in capital letters the phrase from your perspective to "relate the sae 681814598

133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 cigarette to pot, wine, beer, and sex"? A. Which is a quote from the government. Q. Yes. And to the left Of that, to put a Viceroy advertisement? There was no Viceroy advertisement in the government report or when the government wrote those wordst was there? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know that the linking together of those words with -- A. Well, I -- Q. -- the current Viceroy advertisement was a creative product of WBBM? You don't know that? A. I'm not clear what you mean by "creative product." Q. I mean, somebody in BBM decided to publish a 1980 Viceroy advertisement adjacent to the words that are quoted from the government report? A. Excuse me. I don't think this is a Viceroy advertisement. Q. You think the material -- A. I think these are pictures of Viceroy packages. I'd have to see the whole thing, but it sae c~,,,~,,, ~'~..o,, . ,'3,2JT~-~os;' G 8 1814 5 9 9

j ~ 134 sae 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 doesn't look to me like it's an advertisement. I don't see the copy. It looks too small. I'm not certain. I'd have to see it. But this looks to me like just pictures Viceroy packages. the decision to put that scene of Q. SO if it's not advertisements, it's pictures that would be pictures that you took, you procured? You meaning WBBM? A. It could be two cigarette packages sitting on a desk of which a picture was taken. I'm not certain. Q. Okay. But together the way it is was, as you say, ultimately yours? A. That's right, my responsibility. Your responsibility. You had creative for control over this program? A. That's right. Q. And you had creative responsibility the slides as well as for the text -- A. That's right. -- of the broadcast, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Now, sir, you mentioned before that WBBM

L35 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 is an ~Qver~iser~ A. YOU said WBBM was an advertiser, and I said yes, it is. I guess it is. I'm sure it is, yes, for sure. Yes. I've seen my picture on billboards. Q. In connection with your perspective, correct? A. Yes -- well, actually, I can't say that for sure. I don't remember now seeing a billboard that says Walter Jacobson's perspective. I've seen my pictures on billboards, so we advertise me. Right, I'm a product. MR. LONDON: Jim, can I just chat with you a moment off the record? MR. KLENK: Sure. (WHEREUPON, discussion was had off the record.) (WHEREUPON, certain proceedings were had designated as confidential and are transcribed under separate cover.) sae

140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 I[ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 2i 22 23 24 BY MR. LONDON: are (WHEREUPON. the following proceedings were had, not designated as confidential.) Q. Do you ever see any of the ads before they published? A. Yes. Q. Do you ever make suggestions as to the content or copy of the ads? A. Yes. Q. And you[re -- the ads for WBBM are created by whom. sir? A. I don't know. Q. An advertising agency? A. I presume. Q. Now. sir. are you aware that the station does research among your viewers as to what they think of you? A. Yes. Q. And how did you become aware of that research? A. Having been in the business for all these years. I just know it,s done. I[ve never seen it, nor has anybody in my management ever said to me. • 681814602

141 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 "We aid a survey on you, and you are something Or other." I've heard it's -- Q. You know it's done? A. Well, I don't know. YOU said that am I aware that it's done, and my response is it's done. You said it's done, so I'm aware it's done. I have never seen it done. I've heard of things, contests, and I Q. Isn't connection with as you have, like Q ratings and popularity don't know. that audience research utilized in advertising the station? A. I have absolutely no idea. Q. When you have input into the content of advertisements relating to you, who do you communicate with? A. I have communicated on occasion with the people who draw up or produce these ads. Q. At the ad agency? A. Yes. Q. Cunningham & Walsh, right? THE WITNESS: It's going to sound dumb, but is that where Carla works? MR. KLENK: Just answer his question. Is that Cunningham & Walsh? sae . 3,2J7, 087 681814603

142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 your BY THE WITNESS: A. Z don~t know. BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you have you communicated? A. Yes. Carla and Q. Carla is somebody who office? A. Yes. Q, A. Q. substance relate to MR. the name of a person with whom our Lilly Eide. works outside Q. And Lilly Eide, where does she A. Inside our office. Is Carla's last name Merriman? Eight. And you and Carla communicate of your ads? By "your ads," I mean WBBM's you. KLENK: Objection. We have been You can answer that question, LONDON: Withdrawn. MR. BY THE WITNESS: A. We have BY MR. LONDON: O. on occasion. All right, sir. Are of you not work? abo~t the ads that over this. aware that sae ¢%VoE/,, ~_Ro~.,,~,,e ,,,,,/,:~/~°~,. ~,o. c~.~o a,r,.o,, . ,~,2~78~.,087 681814604

143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Carla Merriman is privy to the results of the audience research that's done with respect to your program? A. Unaware. NO idea. Q. Are you not aware that advertising campaigns are based on that market research? A. You know what? I don't even know what you mean. YOU have to be more specific. Q. Which word in that sentence did you understand? A. That an ad campaign is based on that not research, whatever it is. Q. You don't know what that means? A. I presumed you were talking about the ads for the commentaries, and Carla says, "This is what we want to say about the commentary in the newspaper tonight. Is it accurate?" And I say, "Yes, it's accurate," or "NO, it isn't accurate, because that's not exactly what I'm going to say. SO do it again." Q. And don't you know that when Carla draws those ads, creates them, or the people in her organization create them, they use among other things the market research that!s done with respect sae

144 C 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 IO Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 to viewers' reaction to you? MR. KLENK: Objection. already. YOU Can BY THE WITNESS: A. I don't MR. LONDON: please? BY MR. LONDON: He testified about answer the question one more know. I don't know. Would you mark this document, (WHEREUPON, a certain document was marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NO. 6, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) Q. I show you a document that*s been marked as Exhibit No. S. Can you tell me who any of the people in the "To" line are? A. No. Q. Ahem, Anema, Dearth, Johnson, O'Connor, and Schingoethe? A. I don't know who they are. Q. Do you know who Carla Merriman is? A. I do know Carla Merriman. Q. Have you ever been to a meeting with the this time. sae _4 o.

145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 peopi~ whu the latest they discussed ~ate your ads at which research findings? A. Never. Q. Nave you ever been to a meeting in which the latest market research was used to create an advertising campaign? A. Isn't that what you just asked me? I asked: Have you ever been to a meeting where that was done? A. No. Q. You were unaware that information was being utilized for that purpose? MR. KLENK: Objection. We have been over this before. You could ask him if this refreshes his recollection that be knew about it or something like that, but we have been over it. MR. LONDON: I think I'm entitled to ask him that question now that be' s seen the document. THE WITNESS: Repeat the question. BY MR. LONDON: Q, You were unaware that the market research that is done is used for that purpose, that is, to create advertising campaigns with respect to the sae

146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 station's product, is A. That's MR. LONDON: BY sir? that correct? correct. Mark that, please. (WHEREUPON, a certain document was marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit No. 7, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) MR. LONDON: Q. You have Exhibit 7 in front of you now, A. Yes, I do. Q. That's the ad whose copy is "Made Why are you laughing, sir? A. It's interesting. Q. Did you see this ad before it was to Burn" wasn't a laugh. That was published? A. By the way, that an expression of interest. Q. I took it to be a chuckle. I'm sorry. A. NO. Q. Why do you find it interesting? A. Well, it's -- it's three and a half years old. I don't remember having seen it, and it's interesting to see how somebody created an ad to sac

147 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 promote the story we were doing. Q. And is this one that you saw before it was published? A. This is the first time I've seen it that I remember. (WHEREUPON, a certain document was marked Jaeobson Deposition Exhibit NO~ 8, for identification, as of 7112184.) BY MR. LONDON: Q. Now, sir, I show you Exhibit 8 identification. Did you see that published? This one I remember. Q. You remember that ad. What do you remember about A. I remember the pack with ad before it was for it? the stars on it. That's all, though. Q. You didn't see it before it was published? A. I don't recall. Q. Did you have any conversations with Carla about it? A. I don't recall any. sae

148 s~e 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Q. Or anybody else? A. No, I recall none, which isn't to say that I didn't. Q. What's Lilly Eide's function? A. Somebody may have to correct me, but I think Lilly Eide is in charge of our advertising and promotion. BY (WHEREUPON, a certain document was marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit No. 9, for identification, as of 7112184.) MR. LONDON: Q. I show you Exhibit 9, for identification. Did you see that ad before it was published? A. No, Q. Is MR. KLENK: MR. LONDON: MR. KLENK: BY THE WITNESS: A. Can embarrassed? BY MR. LONDON: I didn't. that ad embarrassing? Objection. That's He can answer. GO ahead. irrelevant. I read it first and see if I'm uU,.o,, . 6 1814610

149 J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1O ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 BY Sure. (Short pause.) THE WITNESS: A. I can't answer that question. It's so old. I don't remember if I was embarrassed. I'm not now. BY MR. LONDON: Q. You're not now? A. I mean I don't know. When was this used? Q. It indicates 1981. ME. KLENK: Looks like '83. MR. LONDON: Yes, '81 and '83. THE WITNESS: '83? MR. KLENK: I don't see any '81- THE WITNESS: Couldn't have been '83. MR. LONDON: I'm sorry. It's '83 they're all '83s. They're all '83s. February, '83. BY THE WETNESS: A. Well, that's a touch embarrassing, yes. I can't explain why. I just don't handle that kind of publicity very well. BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you work at developing an image of a confrontational personality? A. No. sae

150 I 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 I0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Do you try to develop an image as somebody who makes people angry? A. No, definitely not. Just get the facts. Q. DO you know where the creative person who created this ad got the idea that it would help the station's viewership to promote the notion that you make people angry? A. This says, "Make you cheer." I don't have any idea. "He'll make you cheer." Q. Doesn't your copy say on the first line of the script, "He'll make you angry"? A. "He'll make you angry or he'll make you cheer, but he'll always leave you informed." this that Q. Do you have any idea where the creator of ad came upon the notion of mentioning the fact you might make people angry? A. NO idea. Q. That never came up in any creative discussion you ever had? A. My only discussions with the ad agency are over specific facts about the commentary that's going to be advertised, not about this kind of promotion at all. (WHEREUPON, a certain document was sae m oo,, o 3,2j7,2.,o, G81814612

151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 BY MR. LONDON: Q. md[ked Jacobson DepOSition Exhibit NO. i0, for identification, as of 7/12/84.) show you Exhibit i0, for identification. Did you ever see that exhibit before? I did not. Neither before or after it was published, A. O. correct? A. I don't remember seeing it even after it was published. It's good. Q. Is that as far as you are concerned an accurate description of you -- "a hard-hitting, television columnist who pulls no punches"? Do you consider that a fair description of you and the way you conduct yourself? A. Very hard, Mr. London, to determine what "pulls no punches" means or how it might be interpreted by somebody who reads it as opposed to somebody who writes it. Q. You don't know what that means? A. I can't make a judgment. Q. You don't know what that means? A. Right, I don~t know what that means. I sae

152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 mean, I've heard the cliche before. Q. You don't know what the creative person who produced that ad was trying to convey? A. NO idea. Q. No idea at all? A. No idea what goes on in their minds. The second paragraph is very clear. Q. That's a fair description of you, is it? A, I know where to look, I kDow who to call, I know how to ask tough questions, and I know how to question the answers I get. Q. When you say that you know who to call, what do you mean by that? Who to call for what purpose? A. Information. Q° TO get all the facts? A. Um-hum. Q. You have the resources available to get all the facts? A. Well, nobody has the -- no. Q. But when you say you know who to call, what's the purpose for which you would make that call? A. To get information. sae

153 ) i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Q. And when you say you know how tough questions, what does that mean? to ask the in the ~ext paragraph, it on the line A. A question that will elicit the truth. Q. YOU know how to ask those questions? A. Yes. Q. And you know of whom -- A. I mean, I've been trained for 20 years to ask those questions. Q. To ask the questfons that elicit the truth' A. Yes. Q. Did you ask any such questions in connection with the November llth, 1981 broadcast? A. Well, [ just do not recall what questions I asked. Q. What does that mean "Walter Jacobson, watch him lay tonight"? What does that mean? A. I have no idea. You'll have to ask advertising. You don't know what that means, do you? A. NO. Now, sir -- MR. KLENK: Marty, are you done with the ads o* sae J,,=.

154 t 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 iO ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 or -- are you done with this line of whatever? I wanted to step outside and have a word with Mr. Jaoobson, but I didn't want to interrupt your train Of thought. ME. LONDON: Okay. MR. KLENK: We will be back in BY MR. LONDON: Q. Now, Exhibits 7 and that are dated ii, 19817 A. They them. two seconds. (WHEREUPON, discussion was had off the record between the witness and Mr. Klenk outside the presence of other counsel and the court reporter.) sir, you're aware, are you not, that 8 related to the three perspectives November 9, November i0, and November relate to two of them, not three of but Qo They don~t relate to all three? A. NO, sir. Q. Which two do they relate to? A. Well -- MR. KLENK: The exhibits speaks answer the question. for themselves, sae

155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1O ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY THE WITNESS: A. Yes. This is important. I think they relate to the first two, not to the third one, but let me check to make sure. November 9 -- they relate to November 9 and November 1O, not to November ii. BY MR. LONDON: Q. As far as you know, was there any ad for November llth? A. I don't know. Q. Is it the general practice of the station to advertise your perspectives on a daily basis? MR. KLENK: Objection, foundation. MR. LONDON: Don't look at me. I don't know what that means either. MR. KLENK: How does he of the station are? MR. LONDON: Let him say. BY THE WITNESS: know what the practices A. Do I know if it's a general practice that they advertise my perspectives on a regular basis? I don't know what the station's practices are. He's right. No. BY MR. LONDON: sae

156 ir i i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. You see those ads regularly? A. Regularly? Q. Regularly. A. NO. Q. YOU don't see them regularly? A. What's "regularly"? l've seen really. Q. TO your knowledge, are -- does the advertise the perspectives once a week on an A. No. Q. Less than that? Yes. Q. Who makes the decision on which perspectives to advertise and which ones not advertise? or as them before station average~ to A. I don't know. Q. Somebody at the station? A. I don't know that. Q. Well, the station pays for them? A. Yes, b~t I don't know -- I don't know who how or under what conditions the decision is made to when and when not to advertise. Q. You're not consulted about that? A. No, sir. sae

157 ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Do you know -- you are aware that the station subscribes to services that report on the station's ratings? A. I'm aware of that. Q. And on the ratings of A. I'm aware of that. Q. And you learn of the programs? A. I can. Q, DO you? A. You mean the results of the Q. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. You learn of the results of do you A. Q. ao Q. reports? A. Q. A. Q. A. particular programs? results of those ratings? the ratings, not? I can learn of them. What does that mean, you can7 That means I can see the overnights. You are authorized to have access to the you? Right. And do you look at them? On occasion, They're of interest to Yes. sae Wot/., 9 ,. , J.o.

158 6 ? 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 1 2 3 4 5 Q. Have you ever heard the "sweeps period"? A. Yes. Q. What does that mean? A. Xt means a period that for expression a some reason is more important than other periods during the year. Q. More important for -- A. For ratings. Q. Do you know who chooses the periods? A. NO. Q. Row long are the periods? A. A month. Q. How many such periods are there in a year? A. I don't know. I don't know that. Q. Do you learn the results of the sweeps periods? A. Yes. Q. Are the sweeps periods periods which yield rating numbers? A. I can't answer that question. I don't know what you mean. Q. Well, you know that they are periods that relate to the ratings process, is that right? A. Right. sae

159 ) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Q. Ratings come out in the form of numbers? A. Right. Q. If you have a higher number than your competitor, it means more people are watching you, correct? A. Right. Q. It's better for you to have more people watching you, yes? A. That's right. Q. Not only as a matter of pride, but as an economic matter? A° Correct. Q. You can charge more to people who want to advertise on your station if you have more people watching your station, correct? A. I presume that's true. Q. And the sweeps periods are, in part, periods in which those numbers, those ratings, are determined, is that right? They A, Yes. Q. And --- A. They're determined all year, the ratings. never stop. Q. Some ratings are determined on a daily ~ae

160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 basis? A. Yes, all ratings. Q. And there are other ratings that are determined in the sweeps periods? A. Same ratings. Q. Same numbers? A. I think so. But for some reason that you can't explain, the sweeps periods "are more important? A. That's correct. Q. More important to whom? A. To the industry at large. Q. And you don't know why? A. NO, I don't. That's a good question. Q. DO you know where your station stood after the November sweeps in November of 19817 A* NO, I don't. Q. NO idea? A. NO, I don't -- well, I have an idea that it was somewhere among the top. that Q. ls it that you've forgotten or that you think maybe you never bothered to learn? A. It's more that I have forgotten. Q. Is it fair to say that you and the station • q: ..... ,7/~;..l. r3121782-80s7 G~I~1462~

161 J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 take great pride in high ratings? A. It's fair to say. Q. That's something you're happy to something you work ~o get? A. Very much so. Q. Now, when it comes to airing the have R~d perspectives, who decides which perspectives are to be aired when? A. The producer of the broadcast. Q. For the perspectives, who is the producer? A. I produce the perspectives. The producer decides what to do with the perspective. MR. KLENK: I think you had a miseommunication. I think he's talking about the half hour, and I think you're talking about something different. THE WETNESS: He said -- MR. KLENK: Let him ask the question. MR. LONDON: I think we are -- we are passing each other. MR. KLENK: Yes. BY MR. LONDON: Q. I'll start again. You are the producer that correct? of the perspectives, is sac o 681814623

162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. Yes. Q. And you determine when a perspective is ready to be aired? A. True. Q. It can't be aired until script, right? A. That's right. Q. And even then it caN't be submit the general A. Q. director 6:30 of A. Q. A. particular you write the aired until the you 0. script to the news director and manager? That's true. And you submit the script to the news and the general manager between 5:30 and the day you're going to broadcast? Of the day I prepare it. Of the day you prepare it? I don't make the decision to broadcast it. When is the decision to broadcast it made? A. I suppose the last decision could be made up to 10:15, It's in the middle of the broadcast. Q. In the middle of what broadcast? A. The broadcast that it's prepared to be on. Q. Now, this is a live broadcast? A. Right.

163 / 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~. 5o at what time is the perspective approximately? , A. i0:17, 10:18. O. And are you suggesting that there sometimes is no decision as to perspective is going to be broadcast minutes? has aired, upto i0:15 what live in two K. Yes -- I'm suggesting not that no decision been made, but that a decision can be changed. O. When the perspective is aired, there are, I presume, illustrations, graphics, slides, photographs that are used as well as the picture Walter Jacobson sitting at a microphone, is that right? A. Yes -- sometimes. Q. Sometimes. And at least with respect to those perspectives, there has to be some preparation for camera people and technicians and everybody to coordinate the use of that graphic material -- of A. That's true. Q. -- is that right? A. That's true. Q. That isn't something that can be just dropped in at I0:15 or 10:17 for a 10:20 broadcast, sae att,,o,, o 681814625

164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2i 22 23 24 correct? A. It can't very It can rather easily be Q. I understand. in its stead? A. Anything in its stead. Q. Is there general at 5:30 same day? A. Q. A. less of majority. O. turn 6:30 evening A. Q. easily be just dropped in. dropped out. And something simpler put put in its stead or nothing put a -- are you able to give us as rule how often the script that you turn in or 6:30 on any given day is broadcast the How often? Yes, sir. Vast majority of the times at ten o'clock; a majority the next day at six, but still a Let's deal with one element at a time. Of the vast majority of times when you in the script on a given day between 5:30 and p.m., it is that script that is broadcast that in the ten o'clock program, correct? That's correct. Regularly, wha%ever is broadcast at ten rebroadcast the following day at six? o'clock is sae

165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 iB 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. Most of the time, much of the time. Q. Most of the time that occurs? A. Between much and most of the time. Q. But that doesn't occur as often as, with as high a rate of frequency as, the running at ten o'clock of the script that's handed in at 5:30 or 6:30 that same day? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. Could you give us, so that we can deal with these relative concepts of most of the time, vast majority, and somewhate a number? Out of ten programs, how ma~y times would the 5:30 to 6:30 p.m. script be played the same evening on the average? A. By ten, you mean two successive weeks? Q. Yes, sir. A. That's difficult to answer, because I don't prepare them every single night. But when I prepare them -- Q. Okay. ~ don't mean necessarily successive I want you to give me a percentage. A. Of ten scripts prepared? Q. Ten or a hundred. Give me a number out of a hundred or out of ten scripts.

166 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. I can't. I can't. It's very high. Is it higher than 80 percent? A. It must be. Q. Higher than 90? A. I can't -- I don't kDow. Q. Somewhere between 80 and a hundred? A. Yes -- I can't -- yes. Q. Okay. And is it -- would you estimate it's something less than 80 percent of the time that the i0:00 p.m. program is rebroadcast at 6:00 p.m. the following day? A. I'm less sure of that because I'm not there. Q. Okay. So is it correct, then, that, to use your words, a vast majority of the time it's your decision that dictates when a program will be aired? A. Absolutely not. You mean when a commenta=y will be aired? Q. Yes, a perspective. A. No, it isn't. It's the producer's decision. O. But the producer -- your experience is that the producer will air the perspective the same sae o c ,2J,,2,0,7 881514825

167 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 day he gets it from you a vast majority of the time? A. That's correct. Q. SO you know going in that the greatest likelihood is that the perspective will air on the day that you submit it? A. That's correct. Q. What factors enter into your consideration in deciding on what day to submit a script for a perspective? A. I think the only way I could answer that take a number of perspectives those or suggested those at a accurately would be to and explain why I used given time. Q. Well, clearly I understand your answer to mean that there are reasons that you have? Itls not a random decision? It's a logical, reasoned decision, is that right? A. Logical reasoned decision? Sure, if you mean by that a vast number of possibilities. Q. Yes. You don't just throw darts at a dartboard? A. That's right. Sometimes I do that, too. Actually, I throw darts a lot. sae

168 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Coming back to the question of deciding when to submit a specific script, you don't really throw darts to determine that question, do you? A. You have to clarify. The decision that you make about when to submit a given perspective script -- A. Every day at 5:30. Q. You submit a script every day at 5:30, is that right? A. 5:30 to 6:30 almost every day. Q. Does anybody at the station tell you which script to submit on any given day? A. There is only one. It takes all day to do it. Q- You write it the day you submit it? A. (Nodding head.) Q. Does anybody tell you which script to write on a given day? A. No. Q. Who decides that question? A. I make the ultimate decision, if that's what you want. O. And with whom do you discuss that question before you make the ultimate decision? sae

169 J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 iI 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. Any number of people. Q. Who? A. 1 will d~scuss it with my assistants. I will discuss it with the executive producer. I might discuss it with the news director. I might discuss it you, Martin London from New York. Q. Have you from time to time discussed that question with lawyers? A. Sure. Q. And have you discussed that question with station managers? A. On occasion. Rarely, rarely that I can think of. Q. function of an executive producer? A. TO broadcasts. What's the oversee the production of all of our There is a producer of each broadcast and an executive producer over the three. He tries to make sure that the shows are well-balanced and different one from the next. O. Now, what elements are considered in discussing the question of on a given day? A. The news of that which subject to write on day; the availability of s.e q'Volfi --,t 0..

170 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 visual material oh that specific day; the level of the" compilation of our information on the baals of which a Commentary can be completed on a given day; other elements in the broadcast; which subjects may be lost if held over for a day because somebody else might do them first: my level of exhaustion, which would ~i~tate tb~t I do a more complicated oI a less complicated commentary. I could probably think of more. Q. Do you discuss these deci6ions with people outside the station? A. Some. Q. Who? A. It depends. Q. Depends on what? A. Depends on the subject. Q. You mean -- I'm talking about the tlming decision. A. Sure. If I'm working on a story at City Hall and I want to wait a day -- if 1 start ~oing my research on it on Monday and I decide that maybe I need a little more information, I'll wait till Tuesday. I will call people in city Hall and say,

171 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 "If I don't use this tonight, is somebody likely to beat me with it," or "How fast can you get me the information so that I can complete it? How much more research do I have to do to satisfy my need to be accurate? Do you think, Mr. Alderman, if I wait another day you can get me that extra piece of information, or should I write it in a different way?" "Is Reagan visiting wild refuges today and will there be pictures coming to us from the network that I can use and will he be visiting another refuge tomorrow so that I could hold my commentary on the President and his visiting refuges for an extra day, or will he be visiting an Indian tribe tomorrow, in which case refuges are old news?" SO i talk to a lot of people. Judges, lawyers. Q. Do you when you -- do consider A. No. -- make that A. Do I consider you mean by that? Q. Well, you say the legal ramifications decision? legal ramifications? you speak to lawyers. What

172 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 DO yOU seek legal counsel? A. No, no. It's not ~or that. Lawyers with -- lawyers who are involved in disputes in city and state government, judges who are about to make decisions. 1 try. They don't talk much. Q. Ever speak -- withdrawn. When you discuss this question of timing now with station personnel, does the element of the expected size of the audience come into play? A. NO. I don't know the size. Q. Well, are there not periods of the year when the size of the audience is more important than other periods of the year? A. To us? I'd Q. Yes. A. Yes. They're more important during sweeps, imagine. Q. And are you not eager to have the highest possible viewership during those periods? A. Yes. Q. When you write a program -- A. Commentary? Q. A commentary or when you develop an idea

173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 for a program, for a commentary, do you ever have a notion as to -- that perhaps a particular commentary will attract more attention than another one on a different subject? A. I have notions. Q. And if you have a notion that a particular commentary will ~ttract a wider audience than another -- A. Could I interrupt? Not attract a wider audience. I have a notion, as you have a notion, about what people may be interested in, which is different from attracting people to watch. Because the advertising is so infrequen%, there is no consideration of how to attract an audience. I mean, most of the time, no -- yes, I forgot. MR. KLENK: Would you read the question, please~ (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested, as follows: "Q. When you write a program -- Commentary? A commentary or when for a program, "A, *IQ, you develop an idea sae ~.';,~o, ~',,,o,, o ~*,2J,e2-8oa7 6 ~ 181 4 6 3 5

174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 for a commentary, do you ever have a notion as to -- that perhaps a particular commentary will attract more attention than another one on a different subject? "A. I have notions. "Q. And if you have a notion that a particular commentary will attract a wider audience than another -- "A. Could I interrupt?") MR. KLENK: Let's go. Thank you very much. BY MR. LONDON: Q. You have a notion from time to time that a particular commentary may attract more interest than another commentary, correct? A. May be more interesting. Q. May be more interesting. You have a notion that one particular commentary may be more interesting than another commentary, is that right? A. Yes. of Q. Is it your experience that the generation more interesting programs leads to the generation sae

175 ) J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 of a larger audience? MR. KLENK: Ob3ection. expert in this field, but he BY THE WITNESS: A. I have no idea. BY MR. LONDON: This man -- he's not an can answer the question. Q. You have no idea? You don't know if more interesting programs lead to wider audiences? A. I have no empirica] evidence to make any determination on that. I don't know what that is. DO you try to make your programs so that attract more people? I deal -- I try to get into subjects that interesting than those that are less. Are you indifferent to the size of your O. you will A. aKe more Q. audience? A. O. smaller A. It's irrelevant. NO. You'd rather have a larger audience than a one, wouldn't you? Yes, that's right. That*s true. Q. And is it your belief that the size of your audience is not affected by how interesting the program material? ME. KLENK: Objection.

176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Go ahead and answer BY THE WITNESS: A. Well, certainly the size of tonight is not going to be determined that question. the audience by the degree of there. We don'% do very much attracting, don't do much advertising. You know what I mean? BY MR. LONDON: I know what you mean. So that the size of the able to be enlarged by the interest of interesting material, because the audience is because we audience is not the program unless the perspective audience learns about the program in advance, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And one of the ways that an audience is taught in some instances by WBBM about the program and how interesting it is in advance is through advertising, is that right? MR. KLENK: I would object to the question. WBBM doesn't teach the public anything. You can answer the question. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Is that right?

177 J i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. I think he's right. MR. KLENK: Just answer the question. Would you read Mr. Jacobson the question, and he can answer it if he can answer it. (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested, as follows: "O. And one of the ways that an audience is taught in some instances by WBBM about the program and how interesting it is in advance is through advertising, is that right?") BY THE WITNESS: A. That's right- BY MR. LONDON: Q. And the purpose of that advertising is to attract a larger audience, correct? A. It could be. Q. Sir, do you have any doubt about that? A. Yes. Q. You're not sure that the purpose of advertising is to attract an audience? A. Well, I could think of many purposes --

178 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 IS 19 20 21 22 23 24 several purposes of advertising. I'm not they advertise for. I can speculate. Q. You don't know? A. You told me not to speculate. Q. As you sit here today, is the WBBM's advertising something to Is that your answer? attract sDre what purpose of an audience? MR. KLENK: That's not what he testified. MR. LONDON: Well, I'm asking him the question. MR. KLENK: YOU already asked him the question. MR. LONDON: NO. His answers are certainly diffuse up to now. I'd like some precision. It's a simple concept. THE WETNESS: Give me the question again- I ~m sorry. MR. KLENK: You have nothing to be sorry for. BY MR. LONDON: Q. ~s it your testimony that you are not ~ware that the purpose of advertising by BBM is attract an audience? A. I think that's one of the purposes of advertising. Q. To attract an audience? A. Yes. to

179 ) ! " 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. You think that's one of the reasons BBM does it, right~ A. That's right. Q. And, in fact, aren't you aware that WBBM spends more money advertising your show during sweeps periods than during non-sweeps periods? A. I cannot tell you what WBBM's advertising budget is or how it's divided up. I really can't tell you, especially when it comes to money. Q. And you have no information to the effect that more money is spent during sweeps periods than in non-sweeps periods, is that correct, on advertising? A. I don't have any advertising budgets. Q. Listen to my question. A. Okay. Is it correct to say, sir, that you have no information to the effect that BBM advertises more during sweeps periods than non-sweeps periods, is that correct? A. X have no information. Q. You have never heard that said? A. Oh, my God, what I~ve heard said I haven't heard said -- and what sac

180 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Have you ever heard it said that BBM spends more during sweeps periods? A. I can't tell you that I've heard that said. Q. Have you heard it said that other stations do so? A. No. Q. You've never seen that in any articles in industry periodicals or newspapers? A. I have a general perception. Q. What is that general perception? A. That more money is spent during sweeps than other periods. Q. By BBM? A. I've never perception is that the industry sweep periods than non-sweeps. Q. And that your station the way the rest of the correct? counted the number of ads. My spends more during behaves pretty much industry does in that regard A. That's my perception, correct. Q. Now, sir, in the discussions that you have had among people in the station about when to submit scripts on particular subjects, has the subject of the likely viewership ever come up? sae

"I ' 181 ,) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 ~. 1 ¢~Jl never say never to anythingt but the answer is no. Q. The best that you can recall -- A. NO. Q. -- audience size has never been a subject -- A. That's right. Q. -- in those meetings? A. That's right. Q. Has the subject of sweeps periods ever come up? A. Yes. Q. In regard to what what subjects to air during A. My commentaries? 0. Yes. A. It's come up. Q. It's a factor a lot of other things, right? A. Um-hum -- yes. programs to play whenr what periods? to be considered along with Q. All right. Do you have any recollection of whether that subject, i.e., sweeps periods, was mentioned An any conversation respecting the timing of the tobacco broadcasts that ultimately were aired

182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 on November 9, i0, Ii, 19817 A. NO, I don't. Q. NO recollection at A. Noa I don't. Q. Are you able recollection MR. KLENK: question. MR. LONDON: NO, different question. MR. KLENK: would you read all? to say on the basis of your that that subject was not discussed? Objection. That's really the same it's not. ~t's a totally I guess I'm not able to decipher -- it, please? (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested, as follows: "Q. All right. DO you have any recollection of whether that subject, i.e., sweeps periods, was mentioned in any conversation respecting the timing of the tobacco broadcasts that ultimately were aired on November 9, 10, ii, 19817 "A. NO, I don't.

"' ~ 183 1 2 3 4 5 6 ? 8 9 i0 li 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Ig 2O 21 22 23 24 "O. No recollection at all? "A. No, I don't. "Q. Are you able to say on the basis of your recollection that that subject was not discussed?") BY THE WITNESS: A. No, I'm not able to say. BY MR. LONDON: O. Now, sir, to whom do you look for ideas about possible perspective subjects? A. Everybody, anybody. Q. You look to people in the station? A. Yes. Q. You try to find subjects that will be interesting to viewers? A. Yes. Q. You try to find subjects that will attract viewers? MR. Objection. He's been asked this I think. He can answer it. KLENK: question before, BY THE WITNESS: A. Yes. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Do you look to your advertising agency to

184 jl i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 come forward with suggestions of subjects to be run on your perspective? A. NO. Q. Have you ever received creative suggestions from your agency? A. NO, not that I can recall. MR. KLENK: You want to take a minute here -- why don't you finish whatever you are doing. BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you know who ever heard that name? THE WITNESS: Can we ME. KLENK: Can yo~ Answer the question. BY THE WITNESS: A. don't. MR. second? MR. LONDON: BY MR. LONDON: Q. A. I don't know. KLENK: Can we Let Do you know No. (WHEREUPON, Brad Wyatt is? Have you go off the record a minute~ answer the question? I don't know if I know or go off the record for a me just finish, who Jack Trindl is? a certain document was sae

IB5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 marked Jacobson Deposition Exhibit NO. II, for identification, as of 7112184.) a document that has identification. your recollection as with Carla. ad agency. BY MR. LONDON: 0. I show you as Jacob8on Exhibit ll, for Does that refresh who Brad Wyatt is? A. Yes. Brad works Q. Who is Carla? A. Carla Merriman at our Q. Cunningham & Walsh? been marked to A. Yes, but what is that (indicating)P MR. KLENK: He asks the questions, not you. BY MR. LONDON: Q- And do you know Jack Trindlg A. Jesus. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Shall I read this? Q. Yes. Do you know how come Jack Trindl was brainstorming for new topical ideas -- A. I haven't the slightest idea, not the slightest. Q. -- for BBM-TV? sae Jc:,oo , o G81814B47

186 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A. Not the slightest. But MR. KLENK: Don't speculate. questions. THE WITNESS: Sorry. BY THE WITNESS: A. Is there a question? MR. LONDON: Read it back. I suppose BBM-TV -- Just answer his (WHEREUPON, the record was read by the reporter as requested, as follows: "Q. Yes. DO you know how But come Jack Trindl was brainstorming for new topical ideas -- "A. r haven't the slightest idea, not the slightest. "Q. -- for BBM-TV? "A. NOt the slightest. I suppose BBM-TV -- "MR. KLENK: Don't speculate. Just answer has questions.") right? BY MR. LONDON: Q. You suppose BBM-TV asked them, A. I don't have any idea -- You never asked -- sae cW,,ff , 681814648 ~gt--,~o~ ~[fi.,,t, • (312) 78~.8087

187 1 2 3 4 g 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 -- but i doubt it. Q. You never asked anybody over program idea, right? MR. KLENK: Objection. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Is that right? MR. KLENK: You answered it before. there asked that question. He's for a BY THE WITNESS: A. Did I ever ask any of these people for ideas? BY MR. LONDON: Q. Yes. A. No. Q. Have you ever -- A. Not that X remember. Q. Have you been told that anybody else did? A. NO, not that I remember. Q. Have you ever seen this memo before, Exhibit llg A. No, definitely. Q. Did you ever do a program on any one of those subjects? MR. KLENK: Objection to the form of the

188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 question. A pzogram Could be reading a news story or a perspective. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Did you ever do a commentary on any of those subjects? A. Specifically I'Ii take A. Generally environment. Q. A. Q, A. O. A. or generally? it either way. I've done commentaries on the Other than that? NO. No other subject? Nothing on here. Listed on Exhibit ii? That's correct. (WHEREUPON, Gary Cummings left the deposition proceedings.) BY MR. LONDON: Q. DO you participate at all in the discussions leading up to decisions made by your advertisers as to how to advertise your perspectives~ A. Only to the extent that I told you before. Carla and Lilly, right? Lilly Eide and Carla Nerriman? sae q¥oE/.,

189 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A, Q. A. I can't -- yes. MR. KLENK: before. BY THE WITNESS: Y~s, That is right? And people in Lilly's office on occasion. think we have been over this A. Do I participate? On occasion, minimally, only to check my facts -- only for me to check their suggestions. BY MR. LONDON: Q. Did you have anything to do with the decision to exclude Cunningham & Walsh from promotional advertising with respect to the broadcasts of November 9, I0, and ll, 19817 A. NO. Were you aware that Exhibits 7 and 8 were created by or placed through Cunningham & Walsh? No. Q. And is it correct that you did not learn until today, if, in fact, you've learned it not that today? A. Q. Correct. Have you ever discussed with anyone at

190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 Cunningham & Walsh their role in being the advertising agency for BBM as it interacts with their role for being an agency for other advertisers? A. No. Q. Never discussed that with anybody there at all? MR. KLENK: Objection. You asked the question. He answered. Answer it again. BY THE WITNESS: A. No. BY MR. LONDON: Q. All right, sir. MR. LONDON: Now, what we said before about the contract, the same rules apply to the financial statement, is that correct? MR. KLENK: That's correct. There is a confidentiality order with respect to Mr. Jacobson's financial statement; and any testimony about that, I'd like to similarly have if necessary to be filed. (WHEREUPON, had are separately and under seal certain proceedings were designated as confidential and transcribed under separate

191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 cover,) sae 651814653 :

208 Ei di 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 within STATE OF ILLTN01E ) SS: COUNTY OF C 00 K ) I, SHASYN A. EVERMAN, a Notary Public and for the County of Cook, State of Illinois, and a Certified Shorthand Reporter of said state, do hereby certify: That previous to the commencement of the examination of the wit~ess, the witness was duly sworn to testify the whole truth concerning the matters herein; That the foregoing deposition transcript was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter reduced to typewriting under my personal direction and constitutes a true record of the testimony given and the proceedings had; That the said deposition was taken before me at the time and place specified; That the said deposition was adjourned as stated herein; That I am not a relative or employee Or attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel for any of the parties hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in the outcome of this action. sae

209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ........ 7__S WHEREOF, I do hereunto se~ my hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago, Xllinois, this ll~l~_ day of~ ......... 1984. C.S.R. My commission expires January 23, 1988o Certificate No. 84-2315. sae