Tobacco Documents Online

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 174 Q Was the information environment significantly different as when he was at Alfred as opposed to Georgia? A Alfred? You bet. I can attest to that. I mean, it's -- every time you ask me was the information environment different assume my answer is going to be yes for reasons I've given. Q What was the information environment with respect to cigarette smoking when he was at Alfred? MS. WALTERS: From 1947 to '49. Correct? A Advertising is now slightly different '47 to '49. I don't know exactly what papers -- in fact, I don't know what papers he's reading in '47 and '49 or what magazines he is reading in '47, '49 so I have to base my judgment on the larger information environment. I mean, the ideal thing that I would like to do, if wishes were horses, of course, we would all ride, but the ideal thing I would like to do would be to know exactly what television programs, radio programs, magazines, newspapers, friends, everything, what information they not only disseminated but what a person would have been attentive to. Q But you don't know -- A Please. That's impossible to know all that for each period in a person's life, if not to know what U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 175 with certainty and precision for any one point in a person's life. However, it may not matter if it is the case, as you so eloquently put it before, to paraphrase you, that if nobody knew it he couldn't have known it. And so where we are talking about health related issues, whether or not he read X or read Y or saw Z is largely immaterial if he had seen and read those things he wouldn't have received information that was pertinent from them. I just want to make sure I got that opinion out because otherwise we could go each year and that would be my answer all along. Q So when he was at Alfred you also don't know what his friends were saying about cigarette smoking and whether or not they were smoking or not. Is that right? A Right. And the previous answer is applicable. Q And when he was at Alfred, unlike when he was in the service, you don't know whether or not the majority of the people around him, his peers, were smoking cigarettes, do you, sir? A I don't know whether a majority were, no. Q And you don't know what his teachers were saying about cigarette smoking at that period of time, do you, sir? U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 176 A No, I don't know what his teachers were saying but again, it may not be material if the teachers would not have had information to convey to him. Q Now, tell me what was the advertising messages that he was getting from Chesterfield cigarettes in that period when he was at Alfred, the two years he was at Alfred? A Well, I can -- if we need to get into specific messages associated with given ads, please understand that I wouldn't presume to testify about those without talking about particular ads. But in general I remember a lot of sports associated imagery and personal appeals that were very popular for Chesterfields in the late '40s but the -- here are the ads I saw. MR. KEARNEY: Ms. Walters, can I ask you what you are showing the witness? MS. WALTERS: I am opening this binder to the Chesterfield ads for the specific period. MR. KEARNEY: I can see that. What does the binder contain? MS. WALTERS: This is the binder of ads that were given to you of -- that were ads taken from Time Magazine and articles taken from Time and Life of brands Peter Rossi smoked and for the time period for U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct h d 177 w ich he smoke . A As I just testified, my memory was pretty good. A lot of baseball players, one ad Joe DiMaggio, Stan Musiel, Ted Williams all together. Ted Williams, Stan Musiel; football players and also actors like Alan Ladd, William Bendix, Arthur Godfrey. Similar kind of appeal as earlier, just taking personalities of the day and associating them with Chesterfield and making them appear to be the in popular brand of smoking. Q Are you going to give an opinion on what the impact of those advertisements are that you just looked at and the message that you just talked about had on the information environment of Peter Rossi at that time? does he ha e MS. n ? WALTERS: Is he going to give one or v " i o e MR. KEARNEY: I said, "are you going to ve one. g MS. MR. WALTERS: KEARNEY: At tri Yes. al? MS. WALTERS: I don't know how he can answer that since we haven't decided specifically what questions to ask him at trial yet. I think if your question is does he have U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

COHEN-Direct 178 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an opinion, I think that is more appropriate. MR. KEARNEY: All right. We will change the question. Q Do you have an opinion? A Yes. Q What is it? A And your question roughly speaking is, what is the impact of these ads on Peter Rossi? Q On Peter Rossi's information environment when he was at Alfred. And obviously, we are talking about the impact on his decision to smoke. A Those are two separate matters. Q Let's talk about the impact generally and talk about the impact on the decision to keep smoking. What was the impact generally? A The impact generally of this advertising would have been to continue to associate Chesterfield with popular people, popular activities, attractive people, making it the in-thing to do. So that's the message that someone being exposed to any sampling of these ads would have taken away plus the excerptation to always buy Chesterfield and various things of that type. Q Not a particular unusual statement to be ) U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 179 contained in an ad? A The advertising agency may not have been of stellar dimensions. Q But Peter Rossi would have thought that was noteworthy, you believe, when he was thumbing through magazines? A He was a big baseball fan and I'm a pretty big baseball fan too. And I saw the ad with Ted Williams and Stan Musiel together and another one with Joe DiMaggio added to it. It stopped me. Q What is the impact on his decision to keep smoking of those ads, if any; the impact of his decision to continue to smoke? A Well, more likely than not it would have led him to believe that cigarette smoking, after all, it's being done by athletes, was consistent with being in fine shape and no apparent health problems, and again, popular, attractive, modern young vigorous people. These associations are formed almost without thought. Now, to what degree they influence a person's decision, they influence the decision because they support the behavior and any -- let me restate that sentence. To the extent that the beliefs that are accessible to you support a certain behavior it's more U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 180 likely that you will engage in the behavior. Q Are you saying that Peter Rossi got the message -- rather Peter Rossi believed during the time he was at Alfred, that cigarette smoking was beneficial to him, it would make -- in a sense that it would make him a better athlete and that's what he got from this ad? Is that your testimony? A It's possible. I didn't testify to that but it's just as possible as some other things. Q So it's possible he never saw the ad? A It's possible he didn't see this ad or another ad but as a Chesterfield smoker what we do know from this literature is that people are more apt to notice ads for products they used than for products they don't use and for brands they use rather than brands they don't use. Q It's possible he didn't like the ad? A It's possible but as a baseball fan and of that age, I would be inclined to say he likely liked the ad. Q So let us establish this: It's not your testimony or you are not testifying that Peter Rossi saw this ad and from it believed when he was at Alfred University that in 1947 that smoking made him a better athlete? U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 181 A I can't say that I believed that particular thing. Q Does this ad suggest that smoking made these people better athletes? Is that the message of this advertisement? That's the Time advertisement in the July 11, 1947, one of the ones Ms. Walters sent down to you. A I wasn't looking at that one but I would be happy to turn to any one you want me to turn to. I think you got the football players ad. It doesn't matter. The August 11 ad. Is that the one you want me to talk about? Q Yes. A This ad does not convey a direct claim to that effect. However, ads like this, we now understand more completely, operate in a low involvement manner. They create certain associations and because of the manner of presentation are less likely to be challenged by an individual. They actually are very modern ads. In that sense I have discussed how these ads operate in several of the papers on my resume. Q That's your discussion about people look at an ad like this, they don't think about it, they don't go through any logical process, but then they U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 182 just believe that cigarette smoking makes you a better athlete. Is that what you're saying people do with this ad? A Not exactly. Some people might believe that. But other people would believe something less than that. But it would almost always be uniformly favorable and conducive to smoking and would certainly associate young, vigorous, athletic people with smoking which is certainly inconsistent with any information that smoking in any way would undermine your health. Q Let's go to warnings when he was at the University of Georgia. Did his information environment significantly change from Alfred? MS. WALTERS: Just so we are all clear, that was 1950 to '51. A Right. Okay. No. Here it is possible that he would have been exposed to greater variety of magazine articles just starting now in '50, '51 newspapers, just starting to appear, and I say possible meaning that it certainly is greater than a zero probability but I tend to discount it because -- Q You discount it from zero? A Discount modifies -- J U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COHEN-Direct 183 Q Something probability, something higher than zero but it's still discounted. MS. WALTERS: You haven't let him finish the sentence yet so you don't know what he is discounting yet. A The probability, I think, exists, it's higher than zero. As to how high it is I have to discount the one the probability of exposure to the information drastically, and beyond that any thought about the material because from all of available testimony in a depositions it wasn't until 1964 or thereabouts that he discussed or evidenced any health concern that was at all specific. Q That's a fact that you gleaned from depositions? A That's right. Q And you rely on that fact to be true? A Yes, I think so. Q And it's an important fact as to in your opinion about Peter Rossi and what he knew of the health risk of cigarette smoking. Correct? A It's one among a number of important facts. I don't look at it just by itself but it is important. Q Okay. So the question was: What was his information environment in the period that he was at ~ U.S. DISTRICT COURT REPORTERS, NEWARK, N.J. (201) 643-5720