Tobacco Documents Online

•+ 'I 1 I 20 ... 2 1i.._ :_'_'_`~'. . • .. =. Clc::y, t:_a:a: y-eu ior yoi:r 4 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 22 23 24 a• n. 4'._:... dc: 1:c~ I) I rava hcrs a c,;roup of print ads or cc.•l:: it:s cf p_•it:_ r.:5s for L & N. cigarettes, and I•d asl; y:: u to look at taesa ar.d tell us whetr.cr or r~ot you recc;,rize thoso print ads? 1'es. Ts:cd can you tell us •..-hat was the occasion for tY:e placement of U:osc ads? I'm not ccr-3:tuia but this is eithe:: the first or t!:e : Lcan3, cartainly a very, very early on campaign i f.o:: L & 11 xilters, when it ums introcluced, tiore? :rc? Z, ths pu:po,a i•ras to tt xl the world that w© were Y:c- re ar:3 alive d a.nc7 that we wore a cigarette of a cc:rt<sin tl;.as ar.:: kLnd, Yva .,. ;--uy t L~te?. ~ • . ... , r.:- L u ii ci-~O:.~ ~L~te? tL-_ L & t•3 cio-are. _f::D, ri_Y' ht. .~.L t%-.L_ l~i-ra in. ti:.a :•:::at ot.cr filtcr cigarettes t:c:_--c cn t',B r::ar3cct? I'i2 not c^ab.,,ol.u„'i..'.2•y sure of tt':i:t, too. I t:.at Y:,r.t in.s. I su-spect, if my rrr-mior- ~-...:E:. a.'. ~.a;: Vic= mci• i:ac around as a filtcr

1 11 ., 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 .v_ -- mii:icr •.:ay C iian L & M and '~ [• \i{~1 V ~.~...~} {.l...i. nV r.! }''l.~ of - LV ~.~..A1~. t . i.~:+.~'. f?.~~.e3. _$. CL~u we cstablich t*hat that V : Y :Ja:3, 2«:. ECIt~ ~ :'L. LO"LiZ ieah. ads? A. 153. This is 10-28-53. : i•Y.at is the Fir•ct one 1-Q;i are loorin5 at? That's right. . FR. BOAL: And I tiosZd ask the reporter to 13 14- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mark this 5,a;:p of exhibits a3 2A, Defendant's 'L & M Exhibit 2A C:r_ algh howavo; raziny ;,hc:ets thcr© are thEre. Ta3 iiI^'IMSS: St loo~ks like there aro twelve A. A. of them. (IL'~i,ZFwD FC : It~.:..IT•IPIc:ATION: 2A through 2t4) I2:. I'L.::TMu; : :iotc on the record that K was s:,ipaea in the systern. (;.r. Poal) Do_s the woru 'Fozitioning' anything to you, ,••I=. Ra;?inson? Yoza mean cigare _ta p~,,:,:,tiur.ing? _ Yes. Yes j s i.r. mean

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 12 C,,,. Cz: :, it irn t:e cl~arctte :'ur'-3 c:z various catEgories of cic;:lrctt : s ~~r how 4ny ccz;par_y w^uld tt',Sr, but tiicre are--thc:re is a nu.-aber f oi different positicns for vtrious cigarette braLds e:..d e~cl-i c=::pan1 and each brand attempts to find i~s po;:iticn in the na::kstplacQ. Does it man how a cic;~.rette stacks up against compE;titive braadc in s:LmilGr categories? :tes. F-r~~:: a r:nufacturc:r's point of view it starts 13 14 15 16 17 18 a 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wi rh a pr sfw:: tcrmix:r:r3 pos3.ticn pcrY:aps, zr.d I s%s;r~oEe ending u••;, it cculd be cne of how it is perceivcd by the puU? ic, wiich in some caEZs are not the same t=sa J.[:~~~ . . Does the advertising that is placed for a particular b~and have scna.~~~in; to do vith the positioni.txg? .ti. 0:1, yes, s; _. t~ :~, dw'-: at--cou1d you c.plan n that? A. t:-_11, it vocld be eaGier for me to do it if I could u_-e it by examhles. Could I use examples in this c3: C? i.aj: alzcut L & 2•1 in the advertising that is reflect~.cd i.r. D: ~cndr:nt's L & 21 L'xhibits 2A through CA 0 N o+ c 0 m ~ A

2 1 ~,~. . _. r 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 " 12 13 14 15 16- 1? 18 19 0 21 22 3 24 t},:.t i:, a rLt:Q: eacY vi:c I tY:ir_k, At f::. c z t i:ac i& i: a,.d i:cmt hc ir.g E ar ly ,. in 70 atill:~~.~ter c:n.. < rrt. was an attcrryit :: i::.'::bCioa::r CGUSuC:Cl', ±ot:= et to i.rr -t~1.: to a Ls. a' cLrtninly we were--wcre to •,:revi 4ttt-::ticrs to thc: fact that %-:a a v-c_z which I use Ay, ti:z:., c-.wc:r c';,::r'-ctcs cn the markc:t at t:_k_t ' t i.r.e. %0 Y"uu -'ue' ••cu c_c r~icr=ir.g to the L & 1-1 1 r I ~ c:~ r:~. t::? I to z:_: e: to t:~e : r::r.d G's: i:: d Ctz'.:.Y Cigd1:C.i.tCs such as a w:.ici; a ci,azettcs ~:aea I ~~Jt of th-- i~...'~:.::~ C.~uTS`, was in tho :.t.e ,.xt.cs, th,: l:.rtl:, t::e Pall ui 6`sc: b1ru 'ai:raight'? A. Uj :4~ iu u:; iL w...:, i ilter cic;ar::tte. 25 .1:., 1../)11l71 t:1.a.. the

1 2 3 4 5 6 14 __.'w`; .. ._~ c.1 ii: arc st-rrung. it •is 'L:4a:t- !r,. Z:C::C C::S,:.:~CGG .. .,. : , J.=e, J,.Cr c;.cprlc, to o,.;.r f iZtc:: :•. :tterial, Y.cnt at that hae, a r.;ic_o_:ito filt-r uhich presurrably was :*::~c~~ o•at of sL::.~ fiG,:y of :r.:r.ez:a lez:al base. k•c: wcre thc c:zly ci r~vzette on the rza.rl:et, and as a::attQr of d~:ct I tta.i~: s::a.ll are, outsiSs of the menthol -c..:LccGz=, whic.,~•~ had awhz tc tip and a waita filtor. ::hat fact t•.:: daa to po3itio:i us by itself. +::at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ;azt a? : owas one ull-Sica we at4cmpte3 to car itli.2(3 in cz: radv:::: t; :; ing. wo wcre---..izo nmx~.aers I don't ~ rvracr:z.);.:r, and I'm not c•ien yu.ro the na-113crs wore LL•C rc, :•.at ~ii~c:.~ w!: were a filtcr ci3:rette, we csure 1_ucl so=~:?rat less TP14 than, say, straig:.t cigare;.tFS, Now wS.at does _ 11ir ~e an? .4. '='t1i'.al r'att•'=. A. _' L:;T::~U: l.~ou :'oa't iAs tar ei±•'r.cr? =t' g e::aicr to say than tar and nicotine. ==:F.. E~1L: :Ie wr.3 loo':ing at 2A but I wonder da %You hUve the ot%ers? p:iated them all down. ~.'~ MR. r ,7'lL : " :ziy. ' F ine. .0 CD

2 .3 4 5 6 7 10 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 15- Q. (thr. Loal) Noa, with respect to the positioning . in 2ix, ti::,Lat is- the fur.cticn, if any, of the phrase 'ligat and mild' as it appears? MtZ. FLk;Tc:iii:Rs I'm going to ob ject to the form of the question unless you qualify this witness to testify as to this. MP,. BOAI. s All right. (Mr. Boal) What was your position at the time of A. this ad? I was advertising manager of the company. Q. Did you participate in the development of this ad? Yes, sir. 1 And what was the nature of your purticipation? kexl, I indicated to you that there was essentially a two-man advertisi.n gng dzpartment, myself and my boss, and togethar we reviewed--I was in his office pract.ic3lly every time an ad c,f any sort for any bra.d carap- up along with t.,'~e agc:ncy, and so rost of this stLf+ is as iaiiiiliar Lo ms a3 my meiaory permit.:,. kre there any documants that exis::ed at Liggett & Myers that explained the reasc;niug for the choice of copy in tiie ad? A. Oh, .1 Gcu::t it vczy rnuc-1i. 25 1 c~. Tuaay, bL iore you cF:;:e ht:rc;, uict you make a search

1 2 3 .4 5 6 8 13. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 of ce:tain recorc?s that may have been existed, that do now exist ai: Liggei:t & l:yers? L. Ye3, si.r, I did. Q1. A. rr,d what did you f ind? We:ll, i fotaid two things. onQ was, since we have recently rovad all of our records from New York City to Durham, what is around is in rather huge uraaarke::i, unle::nelled, uncatalogued packing boxes. I- wer,t t2irouah those packing boxes as best I could to find pu:suant to your subpoena ads for L & M during tYtis period in which the word 'light' was us d, and anyzh:ing else as far as that is concerned, . : and also pursuzint to tLe siapoena I looked for our acivzsI%-.isiiig expezditures during the periods of these ads. I was unable to find any L & M ads, although they taust be there aEr3, up until, I guess, about 1956 :aas probably the first book I saw, some- •~~.cres in t::at peric,d. And i found a book which acivc;:cisiag in it, and tY,at is using tiie word 'liyhd:' and that's all I could find. And t-hst scrai~.jook tnat you have brought today. is all ycu cuu:Lci iLa.i reluLca to tl;e subpoena? ,,: _ , lalc2t 1;3 dll. I G::L1, , 1u A:2i:". wa3--wt:ro you a yarticipant in N O

1 2 3 4 5 6 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 .18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 most of the discussions that went to the--well, %-u3 ±iie::e aa a~cacy a~ r.a~ tiurc that repcesented LiggaCt & :•:y::rs? Yes, S:.r. ~ a:id did yoa partici13ate in i:.;-,e disc:ussion with the as,aacy? A. Yes, sir. F:.~: CR i Gbjcctiun to the form of. tho quasticn. We haven't estzOblishc:d yet that there w.:ro z.r.y ciscussions with th-a agc:zcy. 1•IR. E0AL= O:cay. Ec>al) Did• ycu have a:ly discu5sions with the (Kx . • 4ypncy? r LM P1c..t'.:y. Tsnd •w-zra you a p.2rticip"t in thcy9 discuasions? Yes, 57.+:. And c:ir: yos go over this ccry wilUz the agency time after ti:e, cr did you yo ovcr the copy with the ayc_i~y? A. Sz::.'c: Zow many dic. ycu go cvcr ts..at copy %.rith the .. _..,.•, .c.:, It was part o'7 :Ay jc:a tc r::vicw . ac.v:,rti;;ing aa3 to approve

1 2 3 4 9' 10 11. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 L.3.~ ~.M... J. - . ~ .l. :31~7 ^ ' C';~.Cr .r • . t2;i;, cLsc: it was to soparate L & M as a f iltered Cig~acetta f::o;a its cfai.af co[::petiticn which I suggested e_.-~licr v:C_c tho st::aig'aw ci:~aret:.cs, to position it scziav:..7-a the L::3.1 f1:.:•var, 1f.---'s say, c:: t::;;;;-_- c:.a_r k,x.",zds. I suspect ,f a31 rs•Yoa: is a tErmir.civyy us2d tcday more than thcu, b::L it is d::~.;crsl,:.iv..^-.. Lut they were perceived ss a cigarattes than tA 0 N O+ c 0 18 Q. 00 A. ac:vertising and to sucsgsst er,.:.nges or be of some oA: .:Vfi,` 33 h:Ljjurar,ce in some cas3s. I3:.d you Lpp_uv4-- Did you aj3p~:ova Uio copy tnat is reflected in-- ~ c::n' w tell you wl:eti:er I apprc,vod the copy. I lizaw dalm Wall I.was part of the approval process irn this copy. 1•2. F=:G1u:R= Osf the record. (bIScLt:,SIOid OFF i;1:CG:cD) . (r;z, Lo::3) llas there a rcuson for using 'light and mild' in that ad? YCs, sir. Q. 1u;a h:.3t k::.s tLe rcabur.? In 0 ~ N

I 2 3 4 5 A. Yes. t".ell, it was in fact a lower TPM. TPDi's and :.._ui: paiuxt ii, time w`re not a L:.y Yl;su:a -a.e hi..~rica:I pt3:lic. Nicotine was F_'c:::E3LL-Iy st~.:ci.aiiig wifi:. U:.ich trc:y were familiar bLt S c:~i:'t t;azik tars L•od raised its ugly head. 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19- 20 25 oi tz:r, but I wonder if-- 0 ~ H w !L- Li,i:t ar.d mild we::e piecEs of language which tended 1~castsri fcr t,le c2:oice of the specific words, ligat aa.:d mild, in that context? to c:scriba a ciy::re;.tQ as sep :rated from its conpotitiorn t:hi;.:h I szid cailier w.:re; if you will, stron5er cigartiaos. is perraaps one more a,vicws r.:azon -wi:y we also used it, and that's i be:ause it is pa:.ic o:: our l;,yo, L and M. -ch= boay copy Gi ;:i.e ad there is a listing o: scM;: of the thf::gs cY.at 1, & 14 f ilters give you, sud n•-~;::: r c:.o ia aff~ct oi filtration. Number two is qLotL, lis.:t cor.a, a mild smoke, cc^a, :--r.3LS: tl'Ic: ~+e f.iltGred out, t P C=i:: ::, a.t:r:::: is, CQLiote, much ZcJs Ii:.c:r::ir:::; t: c., L.:i':d 1i rilL"Gr ralT.oves one third of thc- s::0t:e, 2cZ.rc.5 }•Os 411 tha "::isfaction, perio::, w:yuGL::, i:Lw I L:' ic:Vf: I you to say at ty at ti,;:e tar k'"~ 1ic have that