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DEN:jb. 45 I IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF P:EW YORK .PHIL.7P N:ORRIS,_ T_NCORPORATED, ) -vs- ~ Plaintiff; ) ~ No. 74 CIV. 2395 ) R, J. REYNOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY ~ 'arid 4IM. ESTY, IIvC,•, ) ) ) Defendants. prudential Plaza Suite 1500 Chicago, Illinois November 18, 1974 9:30 o..'clock a,m. The deposition of JOHN HOWARD BENSON was resumed pursuant to adjournment.

2 APPBA-RANCES : . . F.r, Anthony L. Fletcher, and Mr. otr.y C. ,,uinn, Jr. (Conboy, ii.=thitt, 0 'Eri en & Roardr:an ) 20 Exchange Plaza. New York, New York 10005 appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff; Mr. R, Bradlee Boal (Cooper, Dunham, Clark,.. Griffin & Moran) 30 Rockefeller Plaza New York, New. York 10020 appeared on behalf of the Defendants.

13A and 13B DEFENDANTS' BENSON DEPOSITION EXHIBITS. EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 14A 14B 15 16A and 16B. 1?

.1 t _...~..__ ___ ~ ....._._._....._._...~__, __ 1~ MR. BOAL.:. Last time we were here, we requested °~ certain in; orm-atJ.on and/or r,:ateri2.ls, one *bein, the ~ . ~~.. saaplzr of ?•.ar2bora Lights and ::ar1boro Red, 4 1 wonderedif anyone was able to 'locate-them. MR. BENSON: No, we have,not, MR. FLETCHER: No, we have not. MR:.QUINNs We are still trying. MR. BOAL: Okay* and. MR. FLETCHER; It's our understanding if those r:. 17 ~:. 18, 19 0 24 are available, they.would probably be available in New York, Mr. Boal. MR.-BOAL:. Okay. I also asked if it was possible; 3 to break down the timing of expenditures for adver- tising in.:'71 and 172, particularly 172. The information that was given in answer to Interrogatory Number 7 gives the breakdown by year, and.I wondered if you developed any information. MR. FLETCHER:.: Again, we are that through New York. MR. BOALt Okay, MR,FLETCHER; Probably-have here for a lot : of re,W. data' going to Among other things, there are policy`: reasons. .That.would have.to be cleared in New York

51 t before we decided exactly how that's going to be pre- t .~:.and I guess my' request' is if, it ts possible to bree,., it down into each type of ad. I think there are two or three phases of 16 1 18 19 the early advertising. I was spent on the early advertising, as compared with ~ the later one, which is essentially "Marlboro Lights, I the spirit of Marlboro in a low tar cigarette," which , has been marked as Adams Exhibit Number 8. JOHN HOWARD BENSON, called as a witness.herein, having been previously duly sworn, was examined and testified further as follows: EXAMINATION (Continued By Mr. Boal: Q Mr. Benson, I have here a copy of a page of a printed,publication, Page 217.'-.. Itm not exactly sure what the publication but, I:ask. you. if you are!familiar with this docu- ment? (Witness exam-infng':document. . 4

1 n THE 'rIIT1:LSS: No, 3tm not. I'm not familiar z:_~" it. By-Mr'. Boal: Q.. Okay. . The_-.publication,* apparently, was written by an employee -- or the information was apparently,written by an employee of Leo. Burnett, and relates to •.the early Marlboro advertising. When Yes, I'm particularly interested in the paragraph . . . ~ near the bottom which states: "There was a deliberate effort to make the copy and picture work together. by keeping the copy as mas.culine-and straightforward as the picture. "The language was pure.vernacular. There were no wasted words,,no talking over the reader's head.. Every word spoke directly.to the.prospect and told Is that-statement accurate as to the advertising in*the t50's? Ln ,. ," r

3 .^.._ - . 5 6 8 statecient w'ould have to be accurate for almost any ads that you would ma':e, to make the picture and tY;c copy wcr:: to-;Qther, Q I'm asking' about Mzr.lboro. Is that true about. all Marlboro? A Yes. t Q Is that true about all Marlboro Lights• ~ ~ advertising? I'will have to answer yes. And is that true of Exhibit 4A for example?. , And the question being, again? t E hibit 1+A R f i i th err o e ng e language x , s "pure vernacular; there are no wasted"words, no talking over the reader's head" -- is every word spoken directly tohim in telling him what he want s i know about the cigarette? A I don't think this copy is pure vernacular, Q- There i-s no doubt about what is intended t It'ss a..point of sale piece, it looks like,: I don't think you answered my question. i L" 0 N oh ss 0 ~ --~- o o+ VV_--,..,, Ijust think it's a very straightforward presentation of the product, :

(The -record was .read. ) THE 'rlly'i:jSS r- I'm afraid I don't understarid t: : qu_e stion. By Mr. Boal: MR. FLETCHER: Did you identify that for.the record, Mr. Boal? MR. BOAL: Yes, I will. MR. FLETCHER: No, I mean what you just showed Mr, Benson. MR. QUINN:' Yes, 'he did, Cculd_,you read the question back again? Are you familiar with a publication called. What-is your recollection about it? It's a book put out -_ publishes it,, but it I don't recallo who s:a collection of what is sidered the hundred best,,ads, n't know con- . o v I

5 I seen it ,\ I'm not sure. Q Well, the' material I was reading to you Hundred Greatest Advertisenents." And the number . . , 1959 is noted in handwriting on the page, and we will ~ at some later date get some further identification of ' the publication, perhaps. I won't do it now, because I have here another co.py of what appears to be a publication or.a release, and*ask you if you recognize that? (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: Offhand, I don't recognize it, don't recognize it. By. Mr, Boal: (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: I believe this is an introductory .-sales brochure used by the sales for_ce at Philip

r- G It's possible we laid out the cover. I'M not cer-%~;a;.n, Q The.insert which is entitled -- well, it .-isn't.er.titled,,but it bears an identifying legend, I believe, "Circular Number 411A," .Did you have anything to do with the .ration of `that •document? A No, sir.. prepa- Q: And when I say "you," Leo.Burnett had '• nothing to'do with it? ' A Correct, No, sir, Q But referring to the cover, which is a glossy in color on one side and black and white on ! the interior - - A: It's entirely possible that we prepared the original layout for this. Q Who would_know that, Norman Muse? I don't think he would-know it, Ken:Krom might, I would ask the reporter,to mark the cover -as - Exhibit 13A, and insert as Exhibit 13B.. _ -. . - .. v~ (The.documents above 'referred to were marked Defendants' Benson Depo- sition Exhibit Nos,.13A and .13B; respectively, for identification.):