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1 5 6 I N D E X 16 17 18 19 J 20 21 22 10 23 24 Examination. - By Mr. Boal t+1ITNES S JOHN HOWARD BENSON PAGE

1 APPEARANCES; ~•~.,..... . . 2 r_. Mr, Anthony= L: -.gletcher~ : and . . , ._ K.__. 4 5 &++y.nr+rprl nn heh9.7 f nf the Plainta.ff 2 Mr, Timothy C. Quinn,* Jr, ~ (Co~ibojl;:` Be~itt, O'Brien & Boardman) 20 Exehanae Plaza New York, New York 10005

X t ) 5 . ~ M a U ~ N 7 8 9 10 11 a 12 13 c5 14 .~ ~ . x .I $ ~ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (Witness duly sworn.) JOHN HOWARD BENSOPi, called as a witness hereino.having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: Q Q BOALs Would you,swear the witness, please? .~:-- . EXAMINATION By hSr. Boal s What is your name? John Benson. Is that your full name? A Correct. @ Q No middle name? Howard, `; Okay.' - What is your home address, }4r. Benson? A 774 Pleasant Avenue, Highland parkt Illinois, Q How Ylong have- you been working_ for Lea Burnett? A Twenty-one years. Q Were you working for Leo Burnett before Philip 'Morris became . a client? A Correct. Q Do you work on Philip Morris advertising ~ 0 N ~ 0 w 0 ~ ~ ~

7 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 Q Q That would have,been in 1955. And what was the nature of that ad? As I recall, it was a man in a tuxedo. And how long was the man in-the tuxedo used A Well, it was • one of many. I t° was used f or an insertion. Q There were several different types of ads used to broaden the appeal of Marlboro, is that correct? A Correct. Q Could you name a few of the others? A Amateur radio operator; a sports announcer are two that come to mind, Q Did there come a time when these other vehicles -.- if I can use that term -- were dropped? A Yes, in 1963. Q What happened in 1963? A The advertising was changed. Q And what was it changed to? A Changed to the exclusive use of cowboys. Q And has that been true from that date to today? A Correct. 24 Q Does any other.cigarette manufacturer use

t -- ...~......~. Correct; -.. : :.-: -- for Philip Morris? 3 5 ~..s. _: .. : . _ Leo Lurnett did not promote the sale of any other Philip Morris brands at that time, did' they? 6 A Correct. 7 8 16 17 18 19 Q. Was there ari effort to create a new image for Marlbbro at that time -= which appears to be 1955? There was an effort to broaden the appeal of the brand. Q Could you elaborate on that? A The Marlboro brand on sale prior to our getting the assignment was a very limited specialty brand bein g sold, as I understood it, primarily only in the East. Q Higher priced luxury cigarette? Correct. More appeal to females than males? 20 1 A . 21 22 2.3 24 Correc't. This advertising was designed -- to broaden the appeal to more smokers was the.reason for this advertising. _ Q And more male smokers? A Not necessarily, but to appeal just to more w

A 11 What were the meetings.about? The meetings were about the launching of 4 5 6 7 8 Marlboro hights, Q Did you participate in any way in the selection of "Marlboro Lights" as the designation for this new product? A No, I didn't-participate, I participated in meetings., but not in decision-making. Q You participated in meetings in which dis- cussion was had of Marlboro Lights as a possible candidate for the brand designation? A I tm trying to think. I 2 15 .a 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 If I recall correctly, prior to my parti- cipating in a meeting, I think the name had been agreed upon. However, there might have been another name under consideration. Q Q LTN"? How about "Marlboro LTN"? Correct. _ what was your attitude towards "Marlboro A I didn 't have a point of view on it. Q Did you have a point of view.on "Marlboro Lights"? A No, I did not. Lq -

5 Correct, -,:.I think you have a thirty-second . ... I '3 5 6 story board in there. Q Thirty-second story board? 1. A Yes, wasntt there? Q A11 right, ; I have here another group of ads whi.ch haa been identified in Mr. Morgan's deposition as Exhibit 1, and ask you if you are familiar with that advertising? (Witness examining documents.) THE WITNESS ; I'm only familiar with one of the ads. By Mr. Boal; .0 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q A This one (indicating). Q Thatts 1C. Is that the advertising which was used to promote Marlboro about the time that they changed agencies? A That I don't know. Q But you do remember that ad? A I have seen that one proof once before, I don't know when"it rari,, Q Okay. Is Exhibit 23 sheet one the first L, print ad prepared by Leo Burnett -- . Which 'one is that? = 0 N ~ 0 > a

13 ..._I4arlboro. franchise to. low.tar.. and nicotine cigarettes? Not that,I could specifically identify. You hadn't run any studies on that? No. 5 7 8 16 17 ls 20 21 Was there at that time increas-ed consumption tar and nicotine cigarettes?' Are you referring to 1971 1? .- Yes, I am. A I cantt answer that question specifically. I don't recall the status of the low tar market at that time. Q Do you recall any concern for possible increase in taxation for cigarettes having higher tar and nicotine- numbers? A ' No, sir, r Q You have no recollection? A No, sir, Q Was that ever mentioned in any of.the meetings that you attended? A No, Q Was there ever, prior to mid-1971, any consideration in. coming out with a lowered tar and J 23 1 nicotine version of Marlboro? 0 24 A To my knowledge, no. w ~ v

7 Z ,._ $ 15 a 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 smokers. Q Q Was it successful? Yes. Do you recall any change in share of market in Marlboro during that time, 1955? A Tto, I don't specifically. Q But it was_an increase? A Yes. : Q And what was the concept used to make the broader appeal --- was a broader appeal? there a concept used to make A Well, there wasn't a concept used. The idea was to present the brand in such a manner as to be more appealing to more people. Q And how was that done? A Well, one of the devices was the use of a cowboy in the initial ad. Q Has the use of a cowboy been continuous ever since 1955? A No. Q Did there come a time that Philip Morris stopped using a cowboy to promote 2•iarlboro?. A The second ad was not a cowboy. 1 Q The second ad?. When was that?

) 3 -Arid for"how long have you worked on it? Twenty years, t 5 6 8 Okay. Have you worked on Philip.Morris advertising from the inception of-the relationship between Philip Morris and Leo Burnett? A Correct. Q We have here a group of advertisements 16 17 18 19 s 20 21 22 ~ 23 24 that have been copied from an exhibit-in another litigation matter which has been prepared by Mr, Fletcher, and {t was previously identified in the deposition of Mr. James Morgan as Defendants' Morgan Exhibit Number 2. and I would ask you to look at this collection of advertising. Can you identify that advertising? (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: Yes, I could identify that. By Mr. Boal: Q Has a13l of this advertising been prepared by Leo Burnett for Philip Morris Company? A Correct, Q And it was all placed in print advertising N of various kinds? ~ 0 w m

IN THE,UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE S4'UTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 4 5 6 7 8 PHILIP MORRISx INCCRPORATED3 Plaintiff; -vs- No. 74 CIV. 2395 R. J, REYNOLDS TOBACCO COMPANY) and WM. ESTY, ?.NC, p ) . ) Defendants. ) The deposition of JOHN HOWARD BENSON, . $ 15 .~ 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 .0 23 24 calledy by the defendants for examination, pursuant to notice and pursuant to the Rules of Civil Procedure for the United States District Courts pertaining to the taninQ of depo$itions for the purpose of dis- covery, taken before Diane E, Norris, a notary public within and for the County of Cook and State of Illinois, at Prudential Plaza, Suite 1500, Chicago, Illinois, on the 32th day of November, A,D,, 1974S corsuaenc ing at the hour of 1: 30 o' clack p. a.

0 16 17 18 19 16 @ Did you:..participate in the preparation of the copy? Q Did you participate in the preparation of the art work? ' ' A No, I did not. Q:_ Did you approve of the final ad as shown in Morgan Exhibits 3A, 3B and 3C? A I was one of -- I approved of it in the role of an account supervisor. Q What does that mean? A That means many people participate in the approval of the advertising. Q And you were one of. them? A Correct. . Q Q At that times was Mr. Krom the art director Correct. Where is he now? A He's in Calif ornia, 20 Q .0 21 22 23 A Q Is he assigned there permanently? No. He is on a trip. At that-time, was Marlboro Lights looked ! on as the f orerunner of a new trend in cigarettes; not a new brand, not a new name, but a natural

4 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 L participated in the meetings that led.to the marketing of Marlboro Lights. Q. When did these meetings first occur? A Mid-19?1. I am guessing. - Q Mid-summer? A Something like that, - Q There are some agency service reports that have been identified here, if that's of any assist- ance, I do not have with me the first one, which is in September, but when we come back again, we will have the September one. I think they are chronological. (Witness examining documents.) 20 21 22 - 23 - 24 THE YIITNESS: Well, the first one here indicates December 1 of '71. By Mr. Boals Q At that point in time, I take it that Marlboro Lights was being sold in New England and not- elsewhere? A Correct, Q.- Do you_recall the meetings, what took place at the meetings in mid-1971? A Specifically, what?

. % I 1 2 3 5 6 7 0 ~ v 10 d ¢ 11 U 0 cc 12 a Z a x 3 9 0 0 14 ;g z a 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 9 a cowboy in the same way in the United States? A The same way, no, not to my knowledge. Q is the cowboy-theme closely identified with the Marlboro cigarette? A Yes. Q Do you think that that's a positive identi:- fication in terms of consumer appeal? A Yes, Q Very much so, is it not? A Correct, There was an exception that didn't occur to me, and that is some specialized advertising use in some black media, Q And what was that exception? A We ran a couple of case history ads on black people from black history, $ What period of time did this occur?. I am unsure of the dates. It was after 3.963. Q Within the last decade? A Yes, Q What was your role with respect.to LA 0 N v, Marlboro Lights? 1P O A 4le 1l . I an account supervisor on Marlboro. ~ w

20 g any .advertising of Marlboro Lights? .A ' I would say no. Q Are you familiar with Hoover Kern, Robert Peak? A I'm familiar with Hoover Kern.' I know of Robert peak, Q And what was their role in the development of Marlboro Lights advertising, if any? A I can't answer that question specifically. Hoover Kern is an art studio which is used by Marlboro. However, we do use other art studios, possibly. I'm not familiar with that. It's.pos$ible that they did the.art assembly for Marlboro Lights,. $ 15 .~ $ What does the term "art assembly" connote I 16 with respect to advertising? 17 A Art assembly is the finished piece that is 18 photographed by.a photo engraver to make a metal- 19 plate for printing. 20 Q The art studio, then, has nothing to do 21 with the selection of the elements of the advertising? 22 A Correct. 23 ~ Q Hoover Kern is located in this building? 0 N 24 Correct. ~ 0 w N ~

21 ~.._...._._...~.,._...,_... I 4 5 6 Q Q Are they_owned by Leo Burnett? N It ts an Andependent entitjr? Right, Do you know Collins., Miller &-Hutchins? I know,of them.- And are they engravers? A They are photo engravers. Q What was the word you used before ."engraver"? A Photo. Q How about Intaglio Service Corporation? A They are an engraver, also, for rotogravure. Q And how about Superior Rogers Graphics? A. Photo engraver. Q Did they make any decision w ith respect to any of the Marlboro Lights advertising? A - No. Q In 1971, who at Philip Morris did you work with with respect to the development of Marlboro Lights advertising? A Jack Landry, Jim Morgan, And I'm hazy on Fitzmaurice. At one time, Bob worked for me, and then he's with Philin Morris, and I have forgotten

18 A in one ad, a minor attempt$ I would say. Which ad is that?. 4 5 6 7 8 A (Indicating)-.; Q That's 3C, Morgan Exhibit 3C. And what'in there ties in with the A Beg pardon? Q What aspect of that ad ties in with it? A The illustration of a cowboy. Q How about the cowboy and the horse art work which appears in both 3B and 3C? A I don't look upon that as an effort to tie in, really, to the cowboy in the other two examples. Q Is there any reason for the cowboy and-a z $ 15 a 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 horse that appears on 3A, 3B and 3C? A In my opinion, it is used more as an interesting graphic device in the headline, is all. Q Just happened to have a cowboy on a horse, right, under the "M" of "Me.rlboro "? A It does, yes. Q Is Norman Muse the man who was responsible for the use of the cowboy lighting a cigarette in 3C and the cowboy on'the horse in 3A, B* and C?' , v, A Norman Muse -- I will back up -- it's N 0% F under Norman Muse's direction that this advertising o w . = N N

0 12 Were you.:in favor of the project? . Yes, Q Was there a reason,why you favored the proJect? : ~ ~ A To expand the Marlboro franchise. Q Who did you expect to expand it to? -- - A To non-smokers of Marlboro Red. Q Any non-smoker of Marlboro Red? A Hopefully, yes. t 10 V ~ Q Were there any discussions at that time as E 11 ~ 12 to the target group to whom Philip Morris or Leo 0 Burnett wanted to appeal with this new cigarette? x a z 13 9 A Well,:basically,, as I said earlier, we 0 0 14 :g z $ 15 wanted to expand the franchise of the Marlboro brand ., name, and there were people who did not smoke Marlbor 16 17 Red, and we, hopefully, were going to attract those 18 non-smokers of Marlboro Red with another brand of 19 Marlboro,.. 20 Q Was one of the aims to protect the Marlboro 21 franchise from erosion to high filtration or low tar 22 and nicotine cigarettes? ' 23 understand your question correctly, A.. If I 4 to protect the erosion, the answer is no. 0 ti o, ' Q Was there at that time any erosion from the o c., v 01

rather, of Marlboro Red. 10 r z a 2 5 6 7 8 9 11 19 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q Isnit there a particular non-smoker that ' this advertising is directed at? A I don't think there is a particular non- smoker, Q Particular group-of non-smokers? I-mean, is there a particular•group of smokers? A I don't believe there is a particular group on this. iiopefully, *we were aiming at all those people, who did not smoke Marlboro Reds,. Q I note in the first line, thep top line of Exhibit 12A, for example, in the copy, prominent type~ "If you smoke a low tar and nicotine cigaretteP try this new one from Marlboro.", Isn't that directed to the low tar and nico tine cigarette smoker? A I have always looked on low tar being a very relative thing. For example, if I were a Camel smoker, I would consider a Marlboro, say, or an L & M as a lower tar cigarette. Q- Was there a reason for the selection of the copy "If you smoke a low tar and nicotine cigarette, try this new one from tdarlboro"?

. .. 0 M 3 7 16 17 18 19 0 21 22 23 24 27 nicotine . .cigarette",? A It could be, yes. Q We have identified this morning in the deposition of ldr, Adams Exhibits 4A and 4B, which are point of sale pieces, and I ask you °if you recognize those. A Yes, Q Were they prepared in 1971 or early t72? A I think so. Q And what was your role in the preparation of those ads? A I did not participate in the specif ic preparation of those. I probably attended meetings where they were presented. - Q And who participated in the presentation of these ads? A Again, this would be under Norman Muse's and Ken Krom's direction. , Q Were Marlboro Lights at that time lighter in taste_ and lower in tar? A Compared to what? Q. The advertisement says "Marlboro Lights$' lighter in taste, low in tar." A Compared to? . ~

0 expansion of an established product line? . . . . (The record•was read.) cigarettes; not a new brand, not a new name, but a- that way? 17 natural expansion of an established product line? {Document tendered.) THE WITrESS: No, I am not.; By Mr. Boal : Could.you restate that question? I don't believe they.did. However, I can't er for them. THE WITNESS: No. By Mr. Boal:. Q. It was not? A It was not. Did Philip Morris look on it Are you familiar with a brand of cigarettes ed "Light" cigarettes? identified as Morgan Exhibits 3A, 3B and 3C, is there any attempt to tie in.with the cowboy theme that has been used with the Marlboro Red -- at that point continuously for eight years? ,

19 J .0 ~ i was prepared..:Whether he was responsible for that 2 specif ic thing or notP I don't know. , . , : . _ , .. ; Q Okay.` Fine. , 4 Who is responsible for the selection of the 5 type that was used in the Marlboro Lights print adver-+ 6 tising in 1971? 7 A I would guess Ken Krom -- at least under 8 his direction. 0 9 v Q Was the type that is used on Marlboro ~ v 10 Lights selected~'to tie in with the Marlboro Red type? ~ a 11 U MR. FhETCHER: Are you talking about the ads or ~ cc 12 0 z a the package? ~ 13 By Mr. Boal:, :. 9 o v 14 i z Q Well, letIs take the ads, first. $ 15 A I can't answer that question, why it was 16 selected. Ken Krom was the one who selected it, and 17 I couldn't tell you.why he selected it. 1s Q Do you know who J. M. Bunscho is? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Was Mr. Bunscho involved in Marlboro Lights 21 in any way? 22 A To my'knowledge, he's a typesetter and a. 2 3 supplier for the Burnett Agency. 0 N ~ 24 , Q Did he make any decision with respect to 0 w N w

29 A._ I don't.. .,- think it's comparative. I think . it's : a specific,-=,:; It has less tar, Q Less tir tfian what? I can't answer that. I don't know. ls 17 is 19 Q Is Marlboro Lights a low tar cigarette? A Is Marlboro'Lights a low tar cigarette? Marlboro Lights is lower in tar than Marlboro Red, I guess is the best way I can answer your question, Q But you wouldn't'call it *a low tar cigarette? A No, sir. Q I have here a copy of a document that was identified this_morning as.Defendants' Adams Exhibit 12 for identification, and ask -if that advertising was prepared by Leo Burnett? A Correct, Q If Marlboro Lights is not a low tar cigarette, why did you use "low tar cigarette" on that Exhibit 12? 20 A What's the question again? W 21 23 24 Q If Marlboro Lights is not a low tar cigarette, why did you use the phrase "low tar cigarette" on Exhibit 12 f or identif ication? A I think we felt it best described the . :a

32 2 5 G 7 8 produced at one fell swoop nationally. Q When you say "rolled out," that's the second phase? A No, thatts'the introduction of the product into additional markets. Q Thevroduct was introduced in New England- and rolled out in other areas of the country, is that correct? A That 's correct. Q So having been introduced first in New England, you would go to the sustaining advertising earlier in IZew England than the other areas, is that correct? A That's correct, MR. BOAL: I think earlier today I asked for a 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 breakdown in advertising of the various phases of advertising in terms of dollar expenditures. Were you able-to find out any more?- : MR. FLETCHER: No. Those folks were all at lunch. By Mr. Boal: Q What was Jim OatesI role in the Marlboro cn Lights, if any? N a ~ A I don't believe any, but Itm not positive o - - - ' c., w a

36 2 4 5 G 7 8 9 v 10 s I 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 question, I'm sure,. Q What.is his name? Q His name is Dick Tulp. Are you familiar with this document? (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: I have seen it. I'm not familiar with it, in that I didn't read it specifically. But I recall seeing the cover on it, yes, By Mr. Boal: Q -Did Leo Burnett have anything to do with the preparation of that document? A Itis possible we made the layout for it, Q Layout for the cover? A For the cover. I'm not su re, but it=s possible. : Q And that would have been t he extent of your role? A Yes. we do not pro duce th is material. Q Is it all done by Philip Morris? A C orrect, : Q Do you know who at Philip Morris is responsible for the preparation of such materials? A I think the ultimate responsibility would be between Morgan and possibly Jack Gillis, director

. 7 1j Introductory _ advertising usually contains . . -V the news of a new product, After you have.established a new product in the minds of the consumer you are talking to, you. then put more emphasis on the product it=self, probably, and less on the news that itls newly avail- able.. _- Q Do y ou recall at whose initiativ e the change -- well , do you recall whether the initiative for the change came from Philip Morris or from -- A Q A Q No, I do not. Do you remember when WhenY tdhen, the change came? A, Specifically, no, I couldn't give you a 2 5 9 date. 16 17 18 @ Do you know approximately when? I would guess probably the second quarter period of time? A Correct. It was rolled out, and it was not f '72 in certain areas. Q Which areas? A I would guess the Northeast. Q The product had been on sale.for a longer.' 19 20 21 22 23 24

. I 3 5 7 8 0 9 16 17 -18 19 20 21 22 ].5 Q When the earliest version of the print advertising was presented, was it presented at a: ohs yeB• Were any changes made as a result 'of that A Possibly. I don't recall specifically.what they might have been.. Q I believe that we have identified-in Mr. Morgan1s deposition an exhibit which was there marked as Exhibits 3A, B and C which has been, I believe, identified as the first Marlboro Lights advertising. (Witness examining documents.) THE WITHESS : From memory, I would say that t s correct. By Mr. Boal:. Q Now, do you recall any changes that might have been made in that advertising which was finally sent to the printer? A Specifically, no, I do not. Q Who .prepared the*copy for that advertising? .0 23 A The copy was prepared under Norman Muee ts 24 direction.

26 1 people.who don't:smoke Marlboro Red prefer.the taste,: .of.a lower tar cigarette MR. BOAL: ^Could you read the question and 4 answer, please? (The record was read, ) ; 6 7 8 By Mr. Boal: Q Do you want to acB anything to that? A No. Q Are there low tar and nicotine cigarettes? A I guess there are. Q What low tar and nicotine cigarettes existed in 1971 when you placed this advertising? A. I can't.recall specifically, but I would 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 assume that True was on the marketJ Doral, probably Vantage; Marvel -- not Marvel -- oh, what's that low tar one? I can't recall its name. Those are the ones that come to mind. Q Isn't'that really who the advertisements such as 12A.P B, C and D were directed to? A Well, again, I have to say those are people who don't smoke Marlboro Red, and that's who we were trying to get.' Q And those people are people that come within the description of ttif you smoke a low tar and

23 It 2 5 6 7 is that correct?:: (Witness examining documents.) THE WITNESS: . * Correct. By Mr, Boal: Q What was your role with respect to the advertising that has been previously identified as Morgan Exhibits 12A, B; C and D? r 8 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A That•s a role of account supervisor parti- cipating in the meetings where advertising is pre= sented to the client and approvals obtained. Q Is there any significant difference in treatment between the advertising that has been identified as Morgan Exhibits 12A. B, C and D and Exhibits 3A, B and C? . A I guess it depends upon what you call sig- nificant, Q What differences do you see? A I don't look upon it as being significantly different. Q Essentially the same type of advertising? A Correct. Q Who -is the appeal to in Exhibits 12A, B, C and D? A Hopefully to the smokers -- the non-smokers~

. 0 2 5 6 7 8 0 9 u ~ x 10 v d a 11 ~ N a 12 z a i 13 9 o ~ 14 x z 15 ., 16 17 1s 19 20 21 22 23 24 37 of sales. I'm not sure of that, Q Interroge.tories.were propounded by the attorneys for R, J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, and the~ were propounded to Philip Morris, and in answer to interrogatories, Philip Morris furnished us with certain answers, -And I'm particularly interested in - Interrogatory Number 5, and I would ask you to read Interrogatory Number 5 and the answer to it. (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: Now I know who Ira Kaget is. By Mr. Boal: Q You do? A A Burnett employee, apparently. Q I don't know whether he is. A I don'tt either. Q He may not be. He might be someone at Philip Morris, We requested production of those two docu- ments, and I was wondering -- are you familiar with those documents? tt re A I d all the on c m. Q Well, is there a reason ...~ w MR. FLETCHER: Yes there is a reason for those , . 0 N ~ Mr. Boal, and thatts under subject matter "Possible ~ 0 w t ~

25 0 ; A Well,*.yes, We didn't want to say "If you - - ,.•... r . . . are the " smoker of a flavored filter cigarette" 2 meaning the Marlboro smoker:-_ We didn't want to lose Red smokers to a new'brand, anawer? - - -- (The record was read. By Mr. Boal: MR. BOAL: Could you read that last question and 5 7 8 Q Q What do you want - to say? I beg your pardon? . What do you want to say? A What do you mean "What do you want to say"? Q You just told us what you didn't want to say. What did you want to say? A We want to speak to the smokers of other r cigarettes. Q I notice on the bottom line of the copy it 16 17 says: 18 19 "Marlboro Lights for those smokers who 20/ prefer the lighter taste of a low tar and . t _ • 21 nicotine cigarette." Are there any smokers who prefer the lighter taste of a low tar and nicotine cigarette? 22 23 24 In my opiniono it's possible that those

-F . 3 5 6 7 s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 14 Q In any~event, you didn't participate,.in any Did you participate in the preparation of the first Marlboro Lights print advertising? A Did I-po:rticipate in the preparation of it? Q Yes, A I did not necessarily participate in the preparation of the advertisin g itself. I participateo in the meeting where it was presented. Q And what was your role in that meeting? A That of an account supervisor; more as an observer as versus the presenter, time. Q Who presented it?. A I'm unclear on the specific person at this Q Norman Muse? A It could have been Norman Muse, but I'm not positive. Q Do you recall when the f irst print adver- tising was prepared, the first version of any print advertising of Marlboro Lights was "prepared? . A Specific dates, no, I'm guessing at the third quarter of 17]..

38 0 :-. other Lights brands.'of cigarettes to be sold by Philip Morris,"-which discusses with some specificity the possibility of introducing a couple of brand names that Philip Morris is very interested in and has been interested in for several years, and may wel be introducing in the immediate future or possibly in ! 1 5 the future. And cigarette brand names, that has the 8 7 same problem. These are areas which we would con- sider to be confidential and have no necessary_ importance to this case. I mean, frankly, what you are getting into here MR. BOAL: Suppose you delete the reference to 16 17 18 19 20 . 21 22 ~ 23 24 the parent brand. Nfft, FLETCHER: Well, it.*s not a question of parent brand. It's a.question of whole other brands. MR. BOAL: You mean Tiffany Lights and so forth? MR. FLETCHER: That may or may not be one of them. But that's the sort of thing we are talking about, yes. I think this is an area that we have tried, with respect to Reynolds, we really haventt asked you to tell us what you are going to do tomorrow -- J --

1 d 4 5 6 . 22 when the transfer.date is. Q - Mr. Cullman? A* I attendedr.one'meeting with Mr, Cullman. Q Mr. Millhiser? A I don f t remember a meeting 'with Mr, Mill- - hiser. 7 MR. FLETCHER: Which one? THE WITNESS: By Mr. Boal: Joseph F., III. Q Now, with respect to what has been identi- fied as Morgan Exhibits 3A and 3B and 3C, this was, z 2 15 a is that correct? 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 s Q And we have identified as Exhibits 12A, B !- in fact, the first phase of Marlboro print advertisind A Correct, Q Now, does 11A, B and C represent phase of Marlboro Lights advertising? the second (Witness examining documents.) THE WITNESS:.- I'm not positive of the sequence, but they look familiar. But I'm not positive this is the sequence. By Mr. Boal: and C to the Morgan deposition some newspaper adver- 24I tising, which I believe was also at an earlier date, o w N O%

i J . 3 4 5 6 8 16 17 18 19 20 21 - 22 ~ 23 24 28 MR. WILLSON:_ ; Reds, By Mr, Boal:.. - Q Compared to Reds, for example. A Lighter in taste, I can't answer that question. They were lower in tar, yes,~ I think taste is relative. Q Who was responsible for the phrase "lighter in tastett? A I couldn't name the specific person. Q But you approved the copy, did y ou not? A I was at the meeting where the copy was approved. It went through me, certainly, as the copy would, Q And "lighter in taste" had no meaning to you? A I think that's relative. I think "lower in tar" is spec ific, I" think, It 's lower -in tar than Marlboro Red. Q Is lowered tar and nicotine,"is that a comparative? A Say that again. Q Lowered'tar and nicotine. A Is that a comparative? Q Yes,

44 4 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 recollection? MR. BOAL: Sure. MR. FLETCHER: (Indicating). THE WITNESS: What's that? MR. FLETCHER: '66. THE WITNESS: For Marlboro Green. MR. BOAL: Do you have those first ads there? 1iR. FLETCHER: Yes. MR. BOAL: Maybe we could pull them out and take k at l the : a oo m. .: t D t de d s ( ocumen re .) en MR. THE FLETCHER: July 29, WITNESS:_• Okay. '67 for 100's. By Mr. Boal: i Q Do you recall the advertising that has been identified as Defendants' Morgan Exhibit 2, Sheets 28 29, 30 and 31 which were, apparent3.y, prepared in 1966? I (Witness examining document.) MR.• FLETCHER: Excuse me, Mr. Boal. I think 30 and 31 are irrelevant. They are in that package just t kee the ntin it c p o y. u o ~ 0 2~t . BOAL: Okay. MR. FLETCHER: Let's conf ine it to 28 and 29. C o • ~ F m

33 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 at this point, .I.don't believe he participated in it, Q . Q How about Ira Kaget? Who? Ira Kaget, K-A-G-E-T. That name is not familiar to me. Q Was Mr. Gelperin~ involved in the Marlboro Lights at any time? A I don't honestly remember, but it's entirely possible, Q ' How about Roger Sherman? A That's entirely possible, too. Q How long ago did they leave Leo Burnett? A I can't give you the exact dates. Gelperin was the last-to leave, and he's 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 been gone, I think, about four months -- and I'm guessing. Sherman -- back up -- Gelperin replaced Sherman, and I'm not positive of when Sherman left, either. Q How about Mr. Driggs? A Paul Driggs is the current account man fln Marlboro. Q He reports to you? A Correct.

. .W 2 3 5 6 8 16 17 18 19 20 21 ' 22 23 24 39 MR. BOAL: I don't particularly MR. FLETCHERz I will undertake to take a look at these documents within the next few days again and see if, in my opinion, with some excision, they can We may agree to show them to you to per- be made comprehensible. suade you there is nothing of any importance in them. If there is something you want in the record,,rre may be able to stipulate it in. MR. BOAL: Coming out with a whole line of Lights, it may be quite pertinent. MR. FLETCHER: I agree with you. The plan, to my recollection, was never to come out with a whole new line of Lights,. Ilm sure nobody ever contemplated appending "Lights" to more than one brand. What they were thinking of was appending it to two or three differen~ brands, one of which was Marlboro, others whic h are brands which have been sold on a considerably smaller scale. And let's say they are analogous to the situation of Benson & Hedges, which is still a rare market. The lesser Lights went to ~ 0 N o% F O W F ~ E W

42 I 1 solely Marlboro Lights, suchas shown in Adams By that do you mean that Philip Morris has I can use that term -- to advertising which promoted 4 5 6 7 8 V 10 s F a 8 11 Exhibit Number 8?.. A I guess the best answer to that question is improved economics,' Q What does that mean in this case? A That means an improvement in the budget situation, Q more money to spend on the advertising of Marlboro? A That's correct, 16 17 18 19 21 22 23 24 r 2Jarlboro Red. , . _ . ; . :.. . Q And is..there a reason for going back Q Do you categorize Marlboro Red as a full flavor filter cigarette? A Yes, Q Was it a full flavor filter cigarette when it was introduced in 1955? A Yes, in my opinion it is. Q What other full flavor filter cigarettes were on the market at that time? A Winston. I think the other one would have to be L & M. if Lq C~ N Oh, I beg your.pardon, the other full c ~., o~

0 41 ,~.-..~..~+....~... ~.~.,. .. from Cosmopolitan- September, 1973, and I ask you if you are familiar. _with that? 0 . ~ 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 (Witness examining document.) THE WITNESS: Yes, I*am. By Mr. Boal: < Q Now, as I recall the testimony this morning, that was the only type of print advertising that was placed in 1973 that promoted the sale of Marlboro Lights. I think that's correct. Q I believe that was referred to as line Q 0 0 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 advertising. A Correct. Q Well, is there a reason why no print advertising was placed in 1973 directed to Marlboro Lights alone? A A matter of economics. Q Could you explain that? A Budget reasons. Q Was the brand not doing biell enough to support -_ A The brand was doing well, but because of other priorities, it didn't receive an effort. Q What were the other priorities?

30 ,difference between Marlboro Red and Marlboro Lights. Q Who is responsible for the copy ."The.spirit of Marlboro in a low tarcigarette"? A Again, I would have to answer that by saying Norman Muse, who is the creative=director on Marlboro would'have been responsible for the creation of that line. Q We have identified this morning as Defendants' Adams Exhibit Number 8 a Marlboro Lights = print ad 'that was run in the New York Post on June 24,~, ~ 1974. Are you familiar with that ad? Yes. Q -This:represents a different treatment of 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Marlboro Lights advertising than is represented, for example, by Exhibits 3A, 3B and 3C, which is the earl advertising. Could you describe to me what differences there are in the advertising? A The early advertising is purely introductory advertising, and this is what I think you would con- sider sustaining. advertising. Q And what are the differences in emphasis from an ' advertising agency point of view? ~ 0 N A ~ 0 w w ~

• 35 _r jo .1 23 occasion for running the Marlboro Lights? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 D 0 0 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 A To my.knowledge, no. Q Does that* mean you don't know? A I'm not aware that that was a reason for running Marlboro Lights advertising. • Q How long is the lead time necessary to place a print ad such as Exhibit 8 which appeared in the New York Post on June 24, 1974? A To create an ad, get it approved and insert it in the newspaper is normally about a.-- under ideal conditions, a four-to five-week effort, assuaino that there are no new creatives needed. Q -Was this created in 1974? A No, that ad had appeared before 1974, I'm quite sure. Q So it wouldn't have taken that long a lead time to place the ad? A That's possible. Q About a week? A. Probably longer, I would guess. Q You dontt recall specifically? . A No, I don't, Q. Do you know who knovas? A Our production manager could answer that

0 0 z i 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12 13 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 40 By Mr. Boal: ;--- :-, Q- Mr. Benson, do you have anything to do with Benson & Hedgesi A No, a ir, Q Were you at all involved in the sampling program that was used to promote the sale of Marlboro Lights? A It's possible I participated in a meeting where a design could have been prepared by Burnett to encase the sam.ple. I'm not positive of that, but it's possible. Q Do you have any specimens of that? A I do not, Q There are none here at Burnett?- A To my knowledge, no, MR. QUINN: What do you want a specimen of., the samples that were used? _ MR. BOAL: Yes. MR. QUIVN: The little four-pack things? 2XR. _ BOAL: I think they were double four-packs. MR. QUIfiN: We will take a lookk around. By Mr. Boal:" Q I have an ad that was identif ied as Adams Exhibit 9 f or identification, and it's an excerpt t

34 :M- i 2 4 .0 5 6 8 9 Q Was he;involved in,Marlboro Lights? Paul has been on.the accounts I thinks since about the first of January. He would have involved in any activity that took place from January of this year until now. Q What activity has taken place from January until now? A Well, there have been some ads run. Q Such as -- A That ad in particular I believe has been repeated (indicating). Q This is identified as Exhibit 8 to the Adams deposition,. Are all`the ads that have been run in 1974 generally of this type? 16 17 A Correct. 18 Q Do you recall when they were first run in 1974? 19 20 A In when? 21 Q- When in 1974 they were first run. * 22 No, I can't identify the exact time. A Q Was it about June? ~ 23 N A That would be correct, yes, I ~ 24 Q Was the introduction of Winston Lights the w co .

1 3 4 5 6 7 8 THE WITNESS: I do. By Mr, Boals :,;,_, Q And what was the message that you were attempting to convey to the smoking public with those ads? A The fact that Marlboro had a new brand out, and it was a menthol brand. Q Is the word "menthol" descriptive of characteristics of the cigarette? A I think the word "menthol" was used to - identify the new flavor of Marlboro that was being offered. Q It's a menthol flavor? A Right,'.. Q And that was emphasized in those ads, was 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 % 23 it not, the menthol aspect? A Correct. Q Do you recall when Marlboro 100's was intro duced? And I hand you Morgan Exhibit 2, Sheets and-33. A Correct. Q When were they first introduced? 32 1967. Do you recall whether Winston Super Kings ~ 0 N ~ 0 w ~ J

• 1 47 *--~--~ ------...~.. 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 packings of the_: brand. :. q The Red being the red package? A Correct. The Green being the green package and the 100's being the l00's: Q Do you know Todd Abrams? A I don't know the name; I* don't-remember the name.. . Q He doesn't work for Burnett? A I'm not sure. Q Are you familiar with an entity known as Haley, Overholser & Associates, Inc. A tdhat's the name again? Q H-A-L-E-Y, O-Y-E-R-H-0-L-S.-E-R and Associates, Inc. :. A No, I'm not. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (Whereupon the proceedings in the above-entitled matter were adjourned sine die.) 0 -Of

I were on the market at.that time? No,' I do_.not,--;,- Q Were'there other 100 millimeter cigarettes 4 5 or super king size cigarettes on the market at that time? 6 7 A Yes." Q And is the word "100's" as used on the 8 package characteristic of t he product? ,... .. ;.. . 0 9 A I think here it w as used to identify the . 10 a d f th b [ a 11 u . r n e number o Q A 100 millimeter cigarette, is that 2 CC 12 z correct? ¢ z 13 3 0 0 14 ~ A Yes, Q And in looking at dams Exhibit 9 for z $ 15 ~ identification, it shows four different members of 16 the Marlboro family. 17 And I take it the words "Red, ""Menthol 18 Green," "100's" and "Lights" distinguish those 19 members of the family one from the other? 20 A Each one is a different That's correct . . 21 brand of Marlboro. 22 Q And each is descriptive of the characteris-] Lq : ..P 23 tics of the cigarette, is that correct? 0 N J: c 24 A I think it better identifies the various o > ~ o ~

v 4 4 5 6 7 8 9 V 10 d ;i 16 17 J 18 19 20 21 22 93 24 43 ....~.~.~ ..... ...r~.....~r... flavored, too, would.be Camel, Lucky Strike, non- filtered, ti:.:~.:. .. .. ._ -~~ Q They were non-f iltered? A Correct, but they were considered full flavored cigarettes. Q L & M was a fu ll flavored cigarette at that t ime ? A Correct. Q How about Viceroy, was that out at that t ime ? A It was out at that time. I don't know if you would call it a full flavored or not. I guess you could. I think it 's a matter of opinion. Q Do you recall when Marlboro 100's was introduced? A Itm confused. I'm going to say '67, but I think it was later than that. Q -Which came f irst, Marlboro Menthol or Marlboro 100's? A . I think A:arlboro Green came first, and then Marlboro 100's. And I think '67 was possibly Green, and 100's was later. But I can't remember the exact year. MR. FLETCHER: May I refresh the witness'