Tobacco Documents Online

0 3 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11• A He mentioned about a mail order activity that he had been receiving requests mostly, and he was mailing the b rand into other states; and hementioned the fact that it was kind of a fad, he made light of it, in fact. He mentioned something to the effect that "someday I might be a big cigarette manufacturer", or something like that; it was a very congenial conversation. Q l;hat else was said by you or Mr. Kecseti or this gentleman? A He asked me who I was and what my title was, and I, at that ti.me, uave him my business card, and took anothd, look at the display over there, the cartons on display, an we left. . Q Did he ksk you at any time if you v:ere from ;iinston-Salem? . Eefore you introduced yourself? A I don't remember that. Q How were they displayed? A I believer there were two or three cartons dis- j played on our package fixture. ThIzre was the type of pack- a;e fixture that holds packages in the carton - you tear the top off the carton and lay it up at an angle on the shelves. Q You recall only the single ii3dividual,who was. evidently working at the store, talking with you or did ~~o,a talk then with anyone else? Y - GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS . ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM, N. C. PHOr:E: 765-0636 r

12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A He is the only one I can remember. Q Did you buy any of the cigarettes or did he give you any of them? A I vaguely remember buying a couple or three packs to bring back to Winston-Salem - this is normal for a new item on the market. Q How much did you pay for them? A I believe it was around fifty cents. Q You did bring them back to Winston-Salem? A Yes. Q What happened to them after they reached Winston- Salem? A I sent them to our marketing ansi research depart- ment. Q Who in particular there? A Just to the marketing a-ad research department j I don't know what the channel was they took after that. Q Do you know what they did with them? A I don 't know what they did with them, no. Q Do you. have .ar.alyzinS ciGarcttes? A Yes. a laboratory here, I aasume, for Q aas it, in any way, referred to the laboratory? A I assume it was - well, I didn 't get a report on it myself; I assumed that they were referred to the GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES OFi1CIAL COURT REPORTERS ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM. N. C. PHONE:765-0636

ti 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 research laboratory for analyzing. Q Is this sort of a customary procedure for any new cigarettes? A It is standard, yes, sir. Q Have you told us everything you recall, Mr. Grou~ about that conversation? A Yes, sir. Q Where else did you go after you left the 8e1.-Air Pharmacy? A Well, we went over tocall on the Empire Flhoiesale rlra jr, e Company or Tobacco Company; I forget the exact tAtle. I Q Had you known any of the people there? A I beg your pardon? Q Had you known any of the people there before you called on them? At Znpire. A No. Q What was your reason for going there? A 1,:ell, the reason you just mentioned - I-didn 't know the account - it's a direct account of ours, and I make it a practice to get to know our direct customers and to check our stock and to see how hic buuiness was on our brznd s, and to see, to follow up and to see how C ancer C igar4ttes were selling. Q So part of the reason to talk to Empire related to C. ancer C igarettes? GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES OF/#ClAl COURT REPORTERS ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM. N. C. PHONE 7GS-O636 0

A Part of the reason, ye$. Q Did.somebody tell you, or did the gentleman that 3 you had the conversation with at Bel-Air mention that FLmpire was distributing cancer cigarettes? A 0 Mr. Kecseti mentioned that he thought that they 0 6 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 were distributing cancer cigarettes. 0 The man that you talked to at Bel-Air did not mention Empire as a possible account? A No. Q Okay; you went directly, I take it, from Bel- Air to Empire? A Yes. Q And who did you talk to at Empire? A I really forget the man's name; it was Mr. Herbst, or soraething like that. Q Can you describe him? A He was bi g, and a very congenial fellow. Q ;oIhat age about? A I would say in his fiftiea. Q All right; would you tell us about that conver- sation please? A rto 11, I don 't renembar whether we met the man conin ; into the wholesale houoe or not or encountered him di.ectly; I:motiv Frank talked to someone to get permission for us to check our merchandise and our stock in his house. GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES , OFFICIAL COURT RlPORTCRS ASHE DRIVE WINSTONSALEM. N. C. PHONe, 766•0636

15 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Trfiich we did. Q You mean by "Frank" - Mr. Kecseti? A Mr. Kecseti. And in checking our stock, we notic about, less than a half a case of cancer cigarettes in a stock bin, and before leaving, we walked up and encountered the owner or the manager there, Mr. Herbst, I guess he is, in conversation, formal procedure, how his business is, talked to him about the stock level, about our products, and so on. d Q Now, where was the cancer cigarettes, near the front or back some distance? A I don ft remember. Q Wel.l, 1ah.at was your conversation relating to cancer cirarettes; what did he say and what did you say? And what did .-1r. XECzeti say? A I asked him how it was selling, what kind of repeat orders he was receiving on them, and why he was handling them, that brand, and tried to get as much infor- mation about the brand as I could. Q lahat did he say? A I can 't remember word for word, but in general, the theme of our conversation was that they were not sellin well, no repeat orders; it was a fad, and that he Just got them Juct to acco.=.odate a few customers. 0, Did he say how long he would keep them in stock? GRAHAM ERLA=HER & ASSOCIATES OiFtC1AL COURT RErORTF.KS ASHE DRIVE VJINSTONSALEM. N. C. PNONE: 765-0636

3 6 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 © 25 A No, he didn't: Q Did anyone indicate that it was not in the best interest of the tobacco industry to have cigarettes with this name Cancer attached? A I did. Q And to whorn did you say this? A To him. Q How did you say it? A In a very diplomatic way; we talked about industr, Lir14 1,. <t,ick•o 17- business conditions,-zxxL=unspa`,n movements, cigarettes ~ and health :novementa, and probleras, and I related to him how I could not understand how he would - I don't remember exactly - I was trying to get across to him the point that he had so much at stake here in having all this business in pre-sold items, advLrtised items, pre-advertised items, and certainly the CancerCigarettas were not complimentary to the standard cigarette items that he was selling, which was the backbone of his business. Q All right; do you recall what else he said? A 1:0 . , Q Did t•ir. Kec aeti make any remarks? A Not that I remember. Q :;r. Herbst, in response to that? A Wo didntt argue; he didn't arSue with me at all; he said that what I said, he agreed with Me, and that was about the extent of the conversation. GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES OF'FICIAL COU4i REPOFtTERS ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM. N. C. PHONE!765•0636 ys

x 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Was there anyone else present during this con- versation? , ......,,,y.,,.. . A No. Q From Empire, where did you go? \ A I don't remember. /Q You were in the Portland area how long in all? A tdoncby through Friday. Q Can you recall, in general terms if not specific teri7s, the types of calls that you would have.made during the balance of the week? A The balance of the week - that was on Friday, and I left on Friday. Q Oh, you left on Friday; okayj well, was this to- ward the end of your time in Portland? A I don't recall whether we made calls after; if we took off after calling on Znpira or notj I just don't r eraeraber. Q Had you made calls on other retailers before 6oin, to Bel-Air, either on that day or on the preceding days? A Oh, yes, yes. Q This, I ta;;e it, then was not the first day that you were in Portland on this occasion; by that, I mean I:arch 17, 1g67, the day you went to Bel-Air, you had been in Portland on more than one day? GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES Ofi1CIAL COVRT REPORTERS ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM. N. C. PNONE: 765•0636 1 . .. ......_... N...... w... .....+..•.r,....e.. .. . .n....r~..w.... .

H 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I:vas in Portland all that week. Q All that week; okay. A Monday through Friday. MR. GRIESS i And this was Friday. Q (By Mr. Tilbury) All right; in a general way, what r:ind of things did you do from t4onday to Thursday? A I worked with salesmen, calling on retail outlet~; }}'~rtriC.7 r;on I worked with Kecseti; worked with Stu r:ar-Iano, S. E. Mar filoJP7'S calling on retail outlets; looking over MM1"no-4s office operations, and so forth. Q All rigilt, tiYas anything said at any of these calls, in any of these conversations was anything said relating to Cancer Cigarettes? With anybody? A With anybody; not that I remember. Q When you got bacit: to -- let me firSt ask about another distributor, did you call on Bernstein Brothers in March of 19u7? A I don't remember whether I did or not. Q How about ca].ls in the city of Vancouver; did you go across the state line into Washington? A I don't remember. Q You don 't recall whether you had met anyone from the H.S. S:nith Company? A I don't remember. Was this the only occasion that you have called GRAHAM ERLACHCR & ASSOCIATES O«jL1AL COURT REPORTERf ' ASHC DRIVE WINSTON-15ALEM. N. C. . PMC.~t. 765•OG36

X 0 0 3 10 i1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 on E.mpire Tobacco Company, as far as you know? A This is the first and last time I've ever called on them. Q Whan you got back to Winston-Salem, did you repor anything with relation to Cancer Cigarettes to anybody in the organization? A Ye3. Q To whom? A To Mr. Judge. Q SJhat did you say? A I don't remember; this was in the form of a standard trip report that everyone travelling out of Winston-Salem, sales executive staff, writes up, about the week's business and trade conditions, the personnel, recommendations, and so forth. It was in the body of this report - I don't even remember how many paragraphs, or how few. Q Besides the memorandum, or whatever this thing was, did you have oral conversations with Mr. Judge, or with anybody else? A I don't remember that. Q Have you had conversations at any other time, leaving out your attorneys, on the subject of Cancer Cigarettes, with anyone within the the Reynolds organizatio ? A No. GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES Oirl(.IAL COURT RlPORTERS ASHE DRIVE W I NSTON -SALEM. N. C. PH-NE. 765 •0636

1 2 3 .4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Or outnide the Reynolds OrganizationZ We are leaving out attorneys for the time being. A No. Me{rl' or7 Q Have you tal.ced to Mr. Marian about the 3ubject 111r~rro? of Cancer Cigarettes, S. E. V:rl-an? A • Yes. Q Aside from what you've described. Have you said anything else, or has he said anything to you? i?~C~ r i ~~rl A Well, I talked to :•:ariasi about the Cancer Cig- arettes before leaving Portland; I talked to him about our call at x:apire, he ti:aa the division r:.anager, and we L' ~,1s" 14 diviAions e~naclltid- with the responsible party for thats before leaving, and it was a routine discussion about my week's work there, and so forth. r1t41 ;-, v„ Q Did .dr. .'-i.='~zn report to you in that conversation that he might have had, or any activities that any dis- tributor or ,jobber might have undertaken with relation to Cancer ci-arettes? A Not that week, no. Q Did he at a subsequent time? A YLs, he called me on the tclephone, that was in ;:ay, I believe; I believe my Meaorandum on the subject is dated a:ay 30, and he reported to me that the FEI, an FBI Acent had called on this 3obber and had asked him questions about whether anyone from Reynolds had told him not to sell GRAHAM ERLACHER & ASSOCIATES OFFICIAL COURT Ri PORTERS ASHE DRIVE WINSTON-SALEM. N. C. PHONE.765.0636