Tobacco Documents Online

Zx TtiE ul~IrhTi STAT~s DIS?I:ICT CovFT FQh TtM LAST4nW JUI>ICIAL DISTRICT GF KISS3L'F:I, LASTEX.U bIYZSIOA. 2nA C. ma, j ) Pltintitf; ) ~ Vs. ) Xo. 9371 ~ R. J. RBYxJLt*S TMCC4 C©MPAbT, ) viv . iio. 3 a -oorporation, am fAT MhIAM, ) ) (Circuit Court ?to. ?4233 ) rePen~ants.) i r: PwSITION OF i~IThwSS proe!uced, sYorn atr+ examined on the 2at day of i ctoter, AX., 1954, bctween the hours of eight o'clock in the forenoon ano six ci'clock in the afternoon of that day, at the hor,e oi` tt:e vitne$a, IRA C. L'JV%, PiaintifS', Apartment %, 2&24A Louisiana A.enue, in the City of St. Louis, State r+t i:issouri, before Lv~A" C. LAWKrkE, JR., a notary public within a~.A for the County of St. LQui.s, which adjoiuu the City of St. Lcuis, State of Xlasouri,,in a certain cause now perHing in the United \ V States riatriot Court for the Eastern Jucticial rietrict of P.isaouri, Eastern Diviaion, wherein IRA C. LaWS 3s the Plair.tift',.and R. 3. K~.'YNOLDS T3BACC0 GOMPAVY anj PA7 FARIAM are the 1efendants; on behalf of tte Plaintitt. A P PE&h A!i CXZs Messrs. Orville RichWaon and t'ona2d S. Sia~a1 ...............~ -o 0 .........................................For the hlaintittj fiichaona C. Coburn, ~aQ .. ................Por the Detenc4ant, fi. J. Veynolds 'tobacco Compsnyf 0 N .~ N J

ii. F4rle /bser, B.aQ ..........................Por the mfsodaat, Pat the t2siQtitt, of lokM sge, being tirvti duly ewsrn, on batzdit of the plaiotitf, drpoaes and says! nxhICT "umikTzOx Br xE. It ICHAzr4oN s ~1 ifi i l you st ate yaur ns'w, please? . , A ira "arlis Lab~e. L-o-W-;! I! Yes. .~ And you am live at 2is2t-,A 3.ouisisam in the City of isiat Loztis# do lrvu nst! A Yes, s f r. 4 JLW o 1d u'e YO;t 'D W. Iota t A ~ Z SM 3) Ye"s oL.i. iM you sx* sarrlsd 4 A Yes. ~ Wl;at is your wife's tasmt A Q Ida My 2*ve. Is she euployeA now? A Yes. 4 Vf*rt! ~ At bo1d's, 4 Do you bsve any cbildr+eat ~ One • slai old? .1 8ev*n yoar old girl. iit. ConM=X: itay I regisi.er aqr obJ.rtion to the testiaoay

of childrea! That io imatc.rial, and irrelerant aM iacowApet*at, I thisk, widcr tAQ Aeciaion, 'and mve that it be stricken. 4 kihers diA you Zaat worlr,T A At Liacb'!a izginrering, ia Wwn eid you last "rk there, about when? A Rhat was in Janua7 of this irear I think it was. ~ i3ow iong were you otf raj~rk en acccwnt of 74ur operations about b*w long were you oi'f work? A I ba.v- been oft work, exeept for juat a-- eaI Po8aiir2y amonth or t-wo eaer since 1952. A Im'tisn Iau ha3 your operation? Yes. ~ At the tir* you had I-aur operatiou vere you ampl4yed by Lincola ftSineorin,g fiompanyx A Yes. i~ AW Hotr long W ym vorkto far - tbeaT . W worked for ttecm ever eiur* -» ever ainae receuber -- ns, not Mcekber, teell, ever sAuea Iq46, let's say that., 4 Uhat kis,d of work Oid 3rou there at the tipe yau t&4- your o,pera.tion4 A I uae an asseabler.. 4 AM where vat their plaat locatsdt A At 5Ta1 Nstural ErtdgO+ ~ nrw Ions lave itou lived tet5e in 3ieiat Louis, that is 262t-A i.ouisiaaat A 3kret Just a.'bout a , &%mtLa.

1s2wro did you li re artort ttzst t 4 At 2fW ?euc*se* f. For how long? ' A Yor about three months. iW. COSUFfStThree ss=ttra xas t hat t M. k1C1:A,kri bXs' Yes * bihere d1d you iive betore thatt Yt. Crystal Giti and Festua. 1 ~ ksrn long in all did you live at Cisy.tal City auA Festus, Kiseovrit natelT a year. q A A I woukd say appro:i,;- Ancd where Oi!~ you 31vro belore ttwtt Here 3A : aint Louls. t~'tsereY A At 4347 "st Plet. BoY iong, ia ail, did rv 1iv irn Saint I.ouis, t'A+st Is eontinuouslr, Yet us take it-t'rox-kest riiw on be.ck? a. Zinct+ IAo. Anr1 where did you live before that? At Crystal C3tY. „ ~ i-or hosr long? A Sinee °19, IWould say ~ 4 (Mecussivn oi`t the record. ) ubers s~are' you~ DorA and reered, Xr. LMeY t~le~qra, ~Sssduri. Uve you ever been cmplOyedt at sPla.cs tftrt tbere ~s 4 tA ; oE o,

aey amount oT dust, or sd*kp 6easratea and createC near the plsc• where you wA2`t vor1L1qgZ A So. ~ Nave you ever srorkrQ around a plote where you would be com,pelled to inha2e gaesea'or fwaca? A so, or aiats ol any icin,, chestical atitts! 4 Before your operatioa Gid you smoke cigarettes! A Yes. ,~ About when Aid you beGiti to smoke cigarettes4 A I began about 1930. :~ Fid gou ss*kt cig,axvttes continuously froa 1930 Urrtil the tim or shortly before your opeyrationT A Ye.. ~ Let us take from 1935 oa, -tbtn, up to the tisw or shortly before I-rour operatioa, f4d you saQko any partioula.r type of ciga.rette, or 'brs,ndt ~ A Xa;, it was 1uet -- That is i'rom 1935 on Up: Ch, 1935 uF. Y,9s. I smked Camlas ipritctlcaliY. +exaluitire. 4 Frosi then, abgut 1935 oat. A Yes. 4 lid you ieMald this sooka into your lM&at A Yeu, I diA. ~ I am not apeaking of a oaGusl sthitt' Of t4-Ye that aig„ht r,et Into your lur,gs, but do you ica m Wbat Ima:'a by an irhalatioa

Qragging the ssAke elosn d"p into y9rsr ltiqP? ~ Trs. +~ Lid you do that? A Tts. 4 i+roo 1935 on? A Xes. ia AM I suppose before that? A Yes. 4 AW was that your usual custosar7rpr of sAOking, or .ras that just. aet otcasions.'1 tryr of snzLciiag? A That sas vW customary wa,y ot smokipg. 4 JtW, xhesk you saaked these aigarettt6, did you smoke tbc• completely, or just a half-inab oft of then or so? A Completely. ~ Hoa smspy paeks a e3sy, on the a"t•sge, or Cas*l cigarettts did xou smoke from 1935 up to the tiee ot' your sYreration? A Q - .t wonld ssr about two paeks adaya On the atrsragaT A 1'ts. tin soae oecasiQRa you saoksd +'iess than that, ieso than two paoics a day? A Occasionally Y asokee! ].ess,.yes. - ~ Arrd sosotises xvaf # ~,"sc,aetims wre, yes. ~ t'ss there aW tendoncy for Vourr ca"uWtioo of cigarsttes to incraase as tire went 1r1s or did It d!'riuisb, or hold about tbo ssmT as I ss:;,ked, you kncw, o"r the Irears. A 0b, Yes,, l.t inar®s."d o ; Ln : ~ Your averW was about two Pscks a day, I!i that xl,ght? w s -.~• N

! 'two psatcs. i rl , uoie, lisiting, +ourselres to tbat period lroa aDout 1935 until shortlj b.fore ir~ operatioa, that i• a eaatb or so bstorr Your operation -- • Y dida"t uWerstaAA. q I atid iet us liait owrselves just a=inute to that period Utweeu 1931p atv'ut 1935, am up to the ti* or your operation, or your entry 3oto the hoapitalfor the speration, did you have any occssioq to s4e ivon time to tiexs any aAvtrtisiag re7..ating to Camel ciL-s.rctLest ~ Yes . khare di!d you see this adrertisiejg, was tlwrt ao,r one p$rticula.r p2ace! A lio, it wts .R.gasioes, pspers aw billboarda, I doa't 1a:*w it w" - Tou ctiuld look srgr place WM ars M &drsrtiasaept. ~t DitS you bear sdatrtisoaesits ovor the rradio! W. C4MIs Just aa aaswmt, . C*amselor, do wt proVt ttsr wltaexs and lead, Sust ast hiri tell his wtorJ. M, hICJ3"Molt I asktd his iq Z1s* t'irst place what aftsrtis3qg ttt tax, and this vau f drelation to the eeditos at heariqg. please. M. COMips I wnderotand# but just do aot 1ea9 the Kitqess, _., N ' 0 MR. !!~''Jmf ,I obJeitt to the 4tiestloel t+A tto ,grourkA that o' it is clearly leading xYj4 witness anM auggersti"S to biSMhat -hio N ! wf

snmrers sbotild be ns to tcbrre he wa,y bdvo s"n the alleselt odvertisinQ. 6 MR. RZCRAwzOxs Ilaid not nst us tho gutsti4A ut'. trhera he saw the soortimiqg, sw question Mss Aid be hoar saythias over the rM io. 4 (r-y Xr. Aietaroon) itoK, 1et us ask irau this qu+rstion tT~.+en, f9r. LUxe, hsve you ever beard -sAY tdvertitiet'of Cnusa cigartttes7 ... .. . ~ YI . C 0 V~'rZ : ~ ObjactsQ to as les4ipg. W4. I?ICiURT:SOX: A,asver the qucatlpn. Vmvo you seor Lerre -.. vi, LVx'r t Ua. (By Y•r. i°.tOAMsoA) .JIM tbrvu& idat siMine ei!d you bear this itAoErtisitigt A orar the radio add tE1e. vIsion. ~ Nbx# did beax`' ottsyr. . ~I* I r*lo this sevo7rtxs3at of cate3, tizanttes fran the ptriod, or up to tler tiue+ ot' irour opera- tioti! I want to i1mit %WSelt` to Oat, not what You.May baVe uta on talsvisistn si.nee thst tia4, tut ,I ';em UnittSS sw$Qlt up to the perio!! of t3me of 3rvur aporation, Oid yvu besr +Cswl advsrtising ae~ tha s~~:1oY ~ YOs'O Y+1te. ,- - . . .. . . . . . . ~ 1ba~tt~x* ~ Alx rlt*nt. Nt 00 soAeit ~ • - . . 1go, but nrtar IAO II+aaard ruIts a lot of it on the Wxa* ~ ~id this ~vsrtidI~ that ~rm saw ~+r~?~ h~t~d through t~ -~- _ ,

aEdiwm tbat we have spctcsn abc+ut intiueace pou to cootians to a.a1ce c igUe tts s t jun. COMYs I object to that. it is isWR& the tritatss aW also ysking the tritness to sske a cc.aclusioa. la:. BxMx.fs'At Did pou aontinus to sioks; dld tt iu~Iusace loti? ~. L3~~s Yss. AM Caml tigarettes! tUUAlii 3aw objactiou, sam ressaa. TiQ ycru rf7y UPon thwiae stat.oasets sWs OY ths CaM1 aAvertfsers, that is rt&t yau saw aW ubat you bea" in Your sout#a- ustios ot tha nmakirt sf Gaael e1CA"ttcst ia. G"'' ~ 3 v"t. to obj.ct to that !'ar tho sar,.as tbst =t is ieaaiug asd asking the fritntss to state a fioa0lusi+ara and uot aWthir.g rsiateei to the ,tsrtr of thr 4sat* n. #W:.#ts Ijoin in tbAt object3oa. azod abject to it toY' the #`t:T'th8:r reason that it. "Btimseli that statlimntti were aWl. ' Thare ie Ao eyidenc+s'i r: th3ng with mterenoit to tto atatamnts that wore slltgedi.y'fto eitAer tq the redto or by .otber ssedts o# a.dXr-rtising. ~. RICIW"013 ~ wi11 vritbdraV tkequestioft. o Xr. kichardson) VtA this mvertisiay that you saw am -heard, re2nting to csxo2 ctbsrettes,, have SYAY affeot upoa you with ralstiou to rivtjr t~FonLimation vt the 3ja*king of the -tigarettest ...~. _ ~ N N W ,,~

M. CGBG'Ms Escu,aa m. Xw. 2 waQt to objcct agalA i"ar , tbs reascu that the westioa is lea6ing aM aloo asks tlas aitncaa to stata a conQlusYoA anA aot to give asy factual statewnt- xitb rsterence to tba casa. St ooaK nbt cAli for s4 statemnt of taet. 7$":t rla0a'JQr t.l* Qwat'laLt ji':, Yen, t2o r.nswer Is yes. ,And what sMct Axd it 3rave sxpOa you! !fi. C~rl~'~:~ls ~t~ sab~actit+ri, sata~+ ~teaaoA. o. s^.I1, in the 3'irat placo„ rvu rtly on a tolta.bler eflVVW to bcey your ,CfloCa trozrc, and ttutt to Ow %ms ffihMinZ at tbat tb. CaWls GospsW coaiA #& toiiEA an. Saturally, I dxdn't wsnt to hurt tW healtA, axie rzct~,~-a12y, ttavaCh ttAir adrrertl.$ i ng. wbw tbs}y as8wvd na that Caw1s so-ulAm"t hw%t sW beaitb. 3n fact, that t#*y VMld help at. tR. Cot= ; I movo that tt* aaauerb4 Otrfcxean es Mtt being s*sp-ozatlre, M. XWLv.t ijoia, that amA at!~1 ttw +s64itionaY grouM that it ta argma:ntat3ve. #~ (b"y Ki": IUC W'O1ic3U) Vr. 1001t4"t N2at P'UtlCvIx ta5%umv 'ift tbe Caaal vvariiaing, prior to your speration, doyaw remOa'V*r aS . htting an artart upwn the cor,tfeaa.€4e of V*ur omtsIng CasO3 s164r- ettest I+6bject to ttat, it asiows that it did bsrt an effect or~ #in and it is tgu.ity for that rsason.

!A. LICi.aMCXc . I tkiak k* alrear saiQ tt did. What . j particular tsatwma of this aevertisia,C do voo acaa+ercbar, it there at* aM ttAt .yaaa eaa tell us sbowt, that att*etad you ip thts eo-ntinuatioR or your awicitc Caaslat swell, aAe. or tbta was their advortiseti.at of the T-IdaO , and afl Irrii.ati2a af the thicvat'. 4 (Ey Xr. aictxsro$soa) Aad aUt Ws.ye that sw irritatianT ~ No irritatioo oi, ths thrast, aM then their a4vtrtisiag of the doctors, they have tb*p ta ae.y Ltat Cam3s were good fgr #ou aaa that they ssfokee ttem lor yasra.. 'Ihat xas swttlf it. ro ru recall amy other .dvartiisipg vit3i refor.ace ta the psraob ttat sa*lc+or4 ciL'srettes t A 4h, e-+trta.iair _,. MR, COBtiXXs tib,f ect*d t* aS prsUpties tbe tritsaaW saod itaditx. lR. f•1CHAh..SUs I rtill Witmr.aw "he qtlestioiR.: Tel1 us about anything sox* thst you ean thiik of about / tbit adver,tisiag #hst,#ax'2uencs6. lrou, ii' It did„ ~to +eOUtilktie t3sr sm3king oi' Cameis. .. . . . . . . .. , . . . ,, . . ~ .-~. ~ICB~3;S041 , 60shw," Mr.. S*Wes:. M. COMA: 1nes I object to tt* tiuostloa tor 0s reason that it aaaums . tbat w' wa* ao InTluiuccll .. gscast_.._, net... YX. L©wgtk*11,, trier. W tasx1aaAiahs .lroi+t ath%atea, ar4 naturslir aporsoa troUld as.sume if 4m athlete swked a ci&sr- -11- LA : o~ 0

/ atte aAd it Youlde't hurt Aia, M~i T©u could do the aam. Mh, X3StJc t I sNve that the latter part of that aasver begianing with =natwrali,r one would asause,'` W so rQrtb be stricken as not rarsDoASiee to the question oni beiag argumntative. Q. XR. CODURNs I join in tbe Wtion. Tid you t1rax an,y conclusion 3rvursell trox this advertis- iuY toaccruiug the nusber of coctors that axzke6 Caml cigarettcs, aarS the Drofeasional xen, aurA thg sthletes, what craclusian, it aqY, did you dMW fr= th3as t*8tiWnlalsp XA. (;:3g3:A: I vb;,ect to that as cal3.in& l'or a conela- sion s" D*t a states+eat of facts. §Qi. 1"iGWcfS: k: 1'Qu said you t-auLed to atriice the f ~ssuaptiots. RoY did it eirect you, wbateid lrou think sbt>ut thl.s &6yertisisZ,.vtst did St bare to do witb ;Four t,D»tiauiag to so*ke - Ca~9tl. Cigtl.TStEgo! ~.~. C;)BVAXs Sam obaection, saze reasan. !R. RYCHAMOpt Ao sbead, Xr. 3.out. --- fR. l.WX t T he peraaA would . . ~ ..._ . ; . . . . . .. .. . . . .. . . . ._ . . _ .,..: - c~ i~3 ,v u4t a pearaon, what wouldit do to you so t'ar as you were ccncrrrufd! : Ln ~ so Iar as 2wwr con- _._...; ~, cerr~r¢ l bad the i?~a that ssrskiag cigarettes, *sp+Qcia21y Cassarls, were t*t tsarmNl to you. v -22- (risausoire of!' tr.e x+sc0rd. o! N I co + 1.

4 ltr. Loxe, 4e ioa r.cail any .4vertiairi,g of Caeei ciCarett.s a. ap to tbe time of your operation reiaticg to tu»c auch Camis, or btir taV C&M1S you eaald anvks u you p2easvd, do rou reeocabtr any alvertising of that sort4 M. CODUrNs 2 object to that as 1raAin& the witn+rss, proaptiuS bint. 1 2'er, I reareydber reuliqg -- #4 tell, lot ur ask yvu this questi.on, Just a slautt, Xr. Mwe, t*a you raca.ll any other sef•ertisire of Camtl ci,tarettes prior to l~3-`,;0, other tbm what you hrsYe tole us about? A Yaa. VU-t was that? A That you eouht sao-ka aa saq,t Camo2s as you Yanted to, Lhat thay wer* not harasttst aad --~ kel 1, Z cou2eA• t eow ri&t out am tr21 you wozo Zor wore vtsat the ae.ert-ie+ement was, but that Weat the subotsnce Ol it. q Ane 1 iave a,eke4 you other queB tlons about your reliance upon that ib cGritanuing to amoke Camtl cfCarcttee. i.ct ~ac ask you this, did that advertiaing that you vEntion" about a=kir.tr aa outh as ycu wni;ed, d3O ihat h4ve Sr4 ei'tett tsposi yout M! COXIMINt Cbjacw to also as oalling #or a cQncluaioa tm not a•utatemnt of tart ftom the Mitaess. ~t. 11I0A,iUPSORt 00 ahead* Mr.. 1+tpwe. PW,,., LOit$t Yea. t In xlat wey -diA it influtnre yon, it it 6141

tiR. COMP.lts bam obJection, sam reason. w- ti.Il, the fact that tbl7 •aiR I*ould snoke u awql as I wrnteQ to. I never paid uy atteatioa to how smyF cigarrrttes I saoked, I nerer once gave it a tbougbt that tbrY aEr. hsrSdag .re an!!, wll, Uaturally, Ijust relsxeR anA nQver gave it another thWught : vt Fid you at any time up until the titae of your operation, Mr. iove, 4116 you at any tiae have any fcaoxledge that cigarettes were harning you in .my vay! por, ot eours*, geatisroen, I aiean we would have to haYe a fauneatioa laid for thst • questiop b7 proper evidence, but Zwront hin to answer that queation on the assu~ption that we uill have other sYldence that they will Da bsryeftl. Nou, kr. Loue, just 1isten to the question met nor+s. Tid you barre.aM authority ur knowledge prior to your operation that the ssokiag of +Coaarl cigarettes were baivftl to you in, aV wayT , 1! Xo, I diWt. #M.AICl31R"Us On the rc E ord I u i 2l a alr that I Mi l1 agres that that particular question W answer would Lt isproper un)eas ttia foundation wera laid tor it that the sinkiug of cXzvettes Kou.ld be harat'u1. ~ {By ". pichardsan) what 4ortor +did you first tonsult coneerning the illness tTu<t led up to your operation? AThe first doctor i went to was a comparV, doctor, 4 U2uat was his Aana!

A I ean't thiatc or his naw ao+r. 1W is tbere on Qraod , it.row, but I isrtaialy tanit thiNc of it. *I Aod diQ you snbseQuwatly see ftater Yraakliot A Ye$. 1n! You subsequeatly went to Aettisb Qospitslt A Us. MR. PICUidNSOY s I tAinic that is wll. CAtASB•=KIriA7ION BY MR. CODtMt ~ ir. iowe, ttbsrs trare you born? A Pahpra, !ti ss vuri . (Rxscassion ort the recO". ) ~q 1tcrn, you say tbat rm wert born In Talqra, do you msIw rIA.ht In ths tosA ot ralx7ra, or out In tAo tauatr,v1 A out In tha couatry, -but, you know, right tberrt In tbat towt~ahip. , ,~ Y*.. Soa tar out ot r..uwrat A It Was aboUt, Well, us I rasomber it w*s about tour ailes* it A oyou ws re born on a#`arm! A A imat was the year ot your birtht lgly. ~ xvr, +dia you continue to Uve tbere la tha asa* piaeer where yau oers born for som.e tiart

A t think we iirsd there wntil 2 was srounA three years old, ae~' ~rcil as I t~.c.~rr.. i ~ !sd ttwrr wbrrr did you .ovst A t'be 3'olgs rored to 1mraoA, ~'.issourl. 4 zs that nesr palmyrat A les. .: In the sam county? A Ies. r~ Trid you :3ove right iato the toxn Of 1"mraoa, or. .gaias : A On a tam twrar. on a tsru near Xrarsvn? A Kczw big a town ia Emrsop? Just ~ groGerlr stora aaA a blaokaoitb sbop, 4 HW big a town is -lslrqrrst A A Pslayra has iround F,044 population. M*; how lons fiid. toU lirt on this tars msr gmarrsoat: Two years, Owt. ~ And then wbaM didYft l1wr! ,t - ' Tten we seat rigbt into rimrsan. You lived right there iu the trillaget Yes. 44 A A For how 3angt . For approxivately a par. Then rbort did you Cot 'R'ben 'iV went tO, ~ tarAl jit8t r1ght outolole UlWri. ~ 0 ~ 0 N ; N 0 xcsu livejs thss* for any cons3.aerable tivat N! ttp until, oh, I xouie say we was there sroumt4ur, or tite yEars* t»yU 1orRger. ,. : . 3

+~ ]iow ol+4 etort you tfh.n you left the ueighborbo" of talqnt A Lat sse oee, 2wouleI say 1 was around 18 ,irears 414, or 19, swthing like that, ~ You lelt there then In about 193) or 1934? A ?es. ~ Is that ri6htt A .-'Yes, that In right. 1'ou heoe told u.s about thia tarn that you nare4 to outsiea of tolyra •ittr 1Quu hM lived at ir'aserssA, rid yrou staYe aMaherc else atLer you lived tbers, but whi).+r you were still living !n the aeighborhooJ ox TaisKyrst A Yes, ~a,3slt right izto talyra. ~ Right In the torn fli' Palqr-a, did you? A Ye.. JW hw loqg oid you iire ttero, until you csso to Saint *o, we c4m: fron ftl%Wra down to Crystal City.am Festus. I s+ao. ' H.*,x long tlid you live them e In Palvyrat I think 3 casys to Crystal City In 1.936, 3,an not sura. lhat Would be appraxisAtely the tire. ~ lAd Whtn di'd you m*ve into Paltwra, the tmn ofPRlayra, - abo3tt how long eid you live there ta suti'ieient! . A Vc x1, I would say right 3u thEr town would be about two years 2vaulA sar, stMUos liks that. o i o a Ln 1 o; N ' S R W E

q ito*r, ltr. Low, bow far eliA tou V tArwgb scboolt ~ Tbe eiahtb gr.!te. + ~( AM wbare At!4 you attenA scbool'tbrongb grMe sabool? A A little sehool ea11ed G4k l+tfAp, it is a county sebrool. (A hrief rirCtss xas taken for the aenefit of the xst~ess.~ 4 - You say yau went to scbool in this little eountry sehool, was !t in 4ak itift.t A Ya. +~ Out in the couAtrtt A Countrir, q Im3.e yoru 6o through there through all si.CAt of t3W VSftst 1, Tbt*ugh aii eight of the grwes, aad I starteA into higb schsol 'xben I got to Poljptra, aaA I AiAn* t finish tt, I quit, about the A3,dRio ef the first 3*eLr. Q Nol/ old were you 'M'hen you finished scboolT .1 Let as see, I think I*st arou413, 14„ somt6inS like tbat. norr, 0i'@ you 00 ari ttork up therre, #tr. iOae, aroun4 FaiWa, btfore you _cam dma to C3rystal City? A yea, I rrorksd. for a while tor a levee builQiny group, that was only stouit six wontha. I forget what the coepxrw*a name was. 4j Voit& tibrk on arivar laesee! . .. . o : . o 'A Yet. And then I xarkele at Wttcy, -I11iAois on the Oovern- o -wEFttt Zo Cki thele. ~ vbat kis~!- ot noxk tras it *m the aEvee, jwst ordinary labor-

in6 work? ~ Spotti.n,g did you' ssy? A 4 8pottfae on the 1s"e. { Tes; -3roa spot Wtisr+ tDsT iratild duqp the dirt 'asa +tvtrythia,g. AM what lciW of wrox'k over at the lock! 1 CsrpeAtar•s belper, ~ Jny atber kise ot Mork theu ao tbe 'lockt ~ t3h, yes, Xr4n a pf l*,&rirar, , thiags Iika 'that,' ' ttoriced in, ttae Rtchira shop. : . A went Aotca 'to t`rlstal City to iivet it was s1sKSst riniswo that is the lotks part of it. 4 A uatter of a year? 2.rould say. It kasn't a lnrar. 4 A doea that cotrer all of the Kork 3rotE Nov long aid you Say 1au kotlcsd on the loek? ~ e11, Iwtsu2en't kuva Just ssttl,y, I'Worksd th*xG until # 'Zt was +6lose'to s y~tar tad You do aV work " a patster'ovesr 'oA thc iock? xoo. Y'Qu oId sIt tto arqr work of that kiw y *o,." batyavt d id t*iore Xes, 'ye s. .s tio, it, doasat t ei tber; Iwas 'in tha eCC CaV. ~j ya1i ~ w$re? ' 4 At Wtat ' t iM ~ Pir . LAtre! ~ ~ ssu ia in 1935 1 t*ltevO, S was iin eas*a about stx slintts. ~ Wharo ras tt:atf.: A that ras st AYhwy, ..lg~

' ~israuri. ~ And wbst lcirA of w*rY di!d you e!o tberet A ftes posts. .ghat was sllT A Yes. Q mow, Xr. Lom, what waa your rather!a namt A ~ tra. M!4 is be still livingt A lio. :; Uben 616 he -Alet A Z soulAn't tell VM exsstly w hen be aied, 1941 I'be li.ve. vivmf . A He 41ee at Tal.wrs, Pass©ur1, whet was tbar VaUse of his death? . W. RiCttt~,~."~+SONs xfm, wait a ssiaute, Kr. Loxe. Of course, I object to that questisa on the grcFund that this witoeur has not t"a qutlitiea to testif`y eoacrcrafng the cau" of his tstber•a -0eathe an. COMM it . ts s.+s'ked as amattcr af.rs$i ly history, of toursl. W. laCar=OX s xt calis t'cr hearsay evI#3cnee tt+a, Ond h~ bss nflt tern quanfio to eiwose the csust oC eeatb. oo aba.a aM answer the qaestioa, 3f ym can, aul~jcct to mW *bjettion. A Uv1'i, as x821 aes I kncv frost xbat they tell sw, be diea of caneer. \ ~ Of utat part of tbe baQyT A -Gt thre pancrsas. -g- ~ 0 0 ~ 0 N ~ A

4 Soa, what wa xotir #atDsrv• aaa!! A aertxuI. Xyrt1a Low.. +~ And is ah* Uvitsz! A :~ tihoO sm wheri !!id she 0101 A Shhe $ied at 1PalqVra, #iiesour3. No, abe 3 s 0ead. 0 14 ?so rou kqow when, approxipate lyt A CottlA I ssk vW s3,sttr? 0. CO$n3MS Yas. (Discu.sstoA oft th* reeord) ) lhe2.I, you can say it waB-a!'ter vour rathur•s dsath, can "u Aot 4 A Yes, yea. ~, r-o you krsaK the tavs* or her oeatbt M. 1ICROiS0lii Sam ®b4artioa, also it 3s trreimraat. To ru heet arAy brothers or risterst xtn, I havt, Eeverat. - Rtw atxwt M. YtICMWOUt I ob.;ect to th3t as.lmaterlal. P!'. it. 6bum, dortt+t . Qu thirik/it Wou1!d be lwaterial Aox many thi2aren- he tas, to aok how AWW brothors ace, sistera te #as, WcaU2A qA aue #r# as abseettoua1vle as the othert M. GOEMs Are ~a~t a~~asi~g ymr db4eotian to the Court eow, or maat ldt. TiCI3UDSON; ks11, I.Waa taikfVg to ir*w' ho'aetter uat let so psas on your

oDjtetbn. i fR. xtCmrtSom : Ijuust thavygat 2Woxh give him a little rest while I would ask you that Qnestion. W.. L%M: Shall I answer the question? MR. Ct7MA3tsYes, that is ai1 right, as to bow maepr brothers atM sisters you bsre. jW ,. Lok3s I havt elevea brothers aM iist+ers. A 4 ~ Tav bave dief. Ire. their naMs4 A FraDtes Jar,e Ltrre. Are ttey rll 11visg now? po, tnel .re Aot, two or tesea .r. 4a+W. Is that a girl or boyl A It is agtrl. My I ask you as to her wbea aW where she ditdt Sh* ot's at i'aL.ara, xissouri, sbe rss, ' aevea pears +al4. AaA pon dO aot know Kbe® it sress spproxiastel,yr, or aott A ' Xo, x don't. ~ ra you kasae tbe cause ot ter deatbt A ito j I don't. s~ goM, you 2ave another brother or sister that bas 0 iee, and f+21o is that?, A That is Gertrude 3pbsofter.- ~ 0 0 ~ 0 N Ln F m ~ Atit when s:W whOi°+4 did ohe die! A Ue 6ied the swaa eay I Was operated os, letlor see, ~hat was about two weeks ago.

-4 AM srnert was .he lieing? A ilhe was litricg at ?'aleprra, Kissouri. = Wb+st Mas the cause of her 4eatb4 { fdh. i:IC~3g: I object to that tor the saae reason. A I don't knos. Ihe rert of Sour brotbers arA sisters aro atill liring thsA, are they? A Yea. 14 Al.l well? A xea. :~ XcK, iir. Lwce, after you le ft PalqWra am cays eown to Crrirstal C'ity, which I believe you aaid was in a'bout 1936 or 7, is that eorrect? A It was tb4 last part of 1935• Yea. ~ 0h, 1935, excUae ~. A q Wtsa` kiuA of work #id gou #o dmrs tteret A Iworked aa the Yristo gailroed and on lam* q goM long eie you wsrk on the Fri.to? . A - Ott a+o on from 36 Up until 39 f;j polngxhat kin~t of Work? A Sectloo har*S. 4 4W. that was a11., no ottor kin.d of ~.-ork? A Vat0iae,nj 1 did katchaszt xoric. ~ You say you a'lao aozko oQ tarrs there duriag that of timet ~ ~ rtoing Juat gcmrsl form xorkt Yes. A Tea. rtod

~ via you tia.e anything to ao, were there any trnit erops for the sarket raised on tbose tarns or nDtt g 1 Clh, no, this was grain anA eattls leed tarra. A11 rigbt. - ihere next 614 you Morkt ~Well, tAtrintA in bttxeect those two I.rorked at the t Crystal City factory. 4 The Pittsburgh Plate Alsss factory? A Yes, see that vwald be back aM forth when 1woulA be lai?m off tror the railroa?! I aight work at the fartory, aw when I xas lsie att at the 2'actory Z xoul4 work with the P'riaco, seta q ArA wAiLt kir3A of work tiiA )rou 49a at the Pittaburgb Plate Glass CogaanYT . A I was a glass handler, you acight aay a truck pusher. Ware You vorking insiftar outsieeT g InsiQe. +~ insi3 te flT the tactory? JI Yts. ~ Wers you near any kini of turnact or turnsces used In ths manufacture of glassT a Ks. ~ You e!iA not work io thRt part ot' the tactoryt 4 Vas there oust ardirt cY aoy kin4 aroual the p'3are a3ure _ you worked there, mors thaA what you woulA ordinarily run Into around a taetoryt ~ Xm, no. I answerie4 your question, air. _24..

4 Is that all of the aork that rou did down at Cryatsl Citr or PestusZ A Yes. ;j Aad when did you saY, durinr what period of t1sK did yDu live tlsrt, from 19 bundrtd aad 35 until when? I. 'Xill NO. Frou the iattQr part ot 35 until 3,91 Yes. Anci at that tiek xh+ers did you spveY To £axnt Louis bere. Kh&t place in Saint Lc>uis, what rtsidtacet I A Gh, no, AoY wait a uiaute, I heve that trronC. I went lron there to paisM*, idiasouri. +~ Hc-v long did you stay in PalmyrsT A Approzi"tel.y a ?ear. C% A 4 i.lvixsg right iA Palvyra, or out in tlwr touutryT 1`cight !n palWra. And what did you do uhiLa you were up there4. I drove a truck for apr larrsther-in-lew. And that Mas ailt A Yes. 3ihtls .you were livin& down at Crystal Ci.ty,* Mert y" living right in tho tovn or out in the oountry!ron tt*ret A C3ut in the couatrr. ~ No», aftel` you had Som back to i"ahMPs, 3n 1939 and reaain*d up ttmere about a yegr, then *hsr* did rrou dot ~..Z~.. - ~

A Then I eame back to Saint L4uis. q Ith.re did you live iA Saint Louis when you casw back, it you resember! A I believe we moved over on Vista, I am not sure. ~ 1ie21, at any rate, it vas in the oity, was it not, and not out in the country or erren the County! A Yes, it was right In the city. Q And that was about 1g%0! A A Yes. Whst kind of work did you do thent Zet rae see, I think I worked for Stix, BB.er and ruller on the freight elevator. +1 hanci2ing freight that was coming In and out of the store? A Yes. q lor long did you work for themt A * About a year. ~ i.`as that the only k.ttxd of work you did lor : them! A Yes. 4 A11 right. And then what did you do? A Tten Iwlnt to work for Site. ~ Site Oi1 Comparyt A Yes. %I That ie i-z-t-e. And how long did you work for them! A I think about two years it. I aa not mistaken. ~ krhst kind ot' work waa thatt FZ{~

A I was aansaing a service station for them. ~ Operating a service 4tationt A Yes. i4 Vris that station in the oity or out in the oountryt A In the city, Thirteenth snd Lat'ayette. ;j Did you continue to live in the city during that time while you were working for 8itet A Yes. ~ And after that who did you work for? A Then I went into the service. Q Uhea xas that? A That waa In 1943, Xarch the 15th I belicve, 1943 that I went Into the service. ~ Were you drafted or enlisted? A Drafted. I tried to enlist and they wouldnOt take me In the x av)r. Q And the Araq drafted you? • Yes, I waited for thea to draft we thena , ~ What branch oi' the service did you go into, was It the AraV or the Air Corpat A Air Corps. Q kbat was your •erial numbert . A W serial number xa.a 3?611172. 4 X4w long were you in the Air yorceat I'ive aonths.

~ Doring that tiae where did you do sereioet ' A At Jefferson Barracks. y, Always at Jefferson 8arrack.t ! A Yes. - q wt+at kind of arrvice did you do? A Just training, basic training.- 4 You were discharged only about five aflnths then after you went into the Air Porcea! A Yes. - ia khy were you discharged so soon? A A Broken ank2e. You got amediaal discharge then? Yes. ~ Tbe broken ankle was the only reason, for the wedical discharge t A V+sil, now that I vouldA• t really know, that is what they told tse see, but otherwise I wouldnst really knox. ~ Vere you 311,, or did you get sick, or did you sutter any kind of an inJury while you were in the Air Forcesf !t k'o, it Were you oont'lned in the hospital at ali while you +sere in the service? A 'Dh, I was in a conva- l.escent cao there because of my ankle. . ~ For boK long? A For about a eWnth. ~ Just before you xere discharged?

A Yes. Q, But you were Aot in the hospitai, Arey hospital, at all as I understand itt A lto. Q Hare you ever bade any kind of a claim against the Goverr,neat for disability wtietteraervice connected or otherxiset M•R. RICHAItD84Ri I object to that as isanterial to any issut in the case. 'I thinlt that is ibproper. It is certainly beyond the limits of his direct exsminsti.on too. I cannot see where that is material, I do not think he should go into it. it is certainly beyond the limit of Ais direct examination, tiich. W. t.WE: Should I answer? Mi. CdBUFsXs Well, yes, after the objection is mwde, go ahead and answer it. . M. LOWSs I made a claim of non-service comected, for non--service connected pension after I had the lung remoYed. q Not until then! A Not until then, no. Vas that ciais allowed! A Yea, o . . ._ o , 'HR. SIC2iAKDSpHt Just a minute. The same objection to °' all that line of tieatizany. I move that it be stricken on the ~ w grounds heretofore ataterd f particularlY that it is beyond the linits of the direct exami,nation, i4 Rox, 1ar. hotre, when was it thst you sayr you were discharged from the Air yorcest '

A q September the i5th, 1943 I think that is the date 0 And when you were discharged, did you rrturn to work here in Saint L 4 ouiet Where4 A A Yes. At the 8sss11 Arwa. And how long did you stay there? A ;~ About six avonths. Doing what kind of worlact A Truck driver. 4 And did you live in the city during that tisn! A ~ Yea. Then what did you do? A Then I went to, Mell, letls see, then I went to work over be+re at the Tower Orovt Park I think, next. A And bor long did you work there t A I would say a year. q Doing what kind of work? A y'aintenanae. ~ Of buildings in the park? s~ Uhat kin9 or workdid that A Yes?. require you to dot A That required se- to do roofing, carpentry ttork. 4 Painting, I suppose? A- Yes, we did som painting. -. ~ lCeepirsg bui2dings in repair *and the proper she"! A That is correct. 4 Wag the painting over there done by spray or by hand? , A Ey hand. -30-

q And you lived in t!w city Khile.you were working there at Tower Orove Park? A Yas. q Then what did you do, 14r. Lowe! t A Then I went to Mork, letts .r., I tbink then I went to work for Lincoln when I left there. ~ Lincoln Engineering Cospany? q Yes. That wat about 1946, was itt, A Yes. :~ And you worked there at Lincoln I bd lieve you have said up until shortly before you were operated on in 29521 A That is right. ~ And during that period of tine, *that is up to the time that you were operated on, what was the kinrl ` of work that you did at Lincola! A , AsseOling work. q Asseabling vhatt In a general way at lerst. A Asseabling air natora and grease guns and things like that. q Did you do anY other kind of xork, than th&t, W. Lowe! A Yes, I ran the punch press, and set up the mchine, and worked on the big stear. q That covers all the wark you did there at Lincoln • -, Engineering Company? A Yes. o . , . ~i . ~: Q Waas that work that was done lnaide the plant or on the ° i f -31-

outside! a A It was inside the plxnt, yes, fair. ~ Now, of coursv, when youI eatered the Air porces you had a ptysical exlaaination there, 'did you Qot! A Yes. ik Were x-raya taken or not! '~* A Yes, there was. i; At acW of tbese plaoes that you bare told us about where you worked prior to the operation in 1952 rwere you given a phYrsical exanSnation before you started xorking? h All of tb.em. t~ All of thea4 A All but the park over ktere -- Ao, *I Kouldn't say all of then either. There was the park, Site an4 Stix, Baer and Yuli.er's I Aever 'laad a physical exuemtnation. 4 4 4 fsut you did at the Pittsburgh p2ate Gliisa Coropanirt Yes, and the Friscxo Rai lroad. Y`rtsco F'.ex2road ard the Lincoln rAgitztering 'CompattyY Lincoln Av%ineerinS Co"rW end the SmalY Aris: "re'r-ra,ya taken then those physical exaoinatfona were vaade or not? q A I think al1 .. oP ttea. Did you ever work as a painter at ,uW time other than when you were down at the Tower drove Parkt A Ho. ~ You hever did arqr rork of that kind?'

A X did a little painting just for rq own tolks, you knotr, you wouldn't call it anything, you wouldnIt call it ajob. Q Thet was up at Palaprra? A Xo, it was here in Saint Louis. Q Oh, you nenn Just arourxi the house, !s that what you aeant A Yes, and paperhanging. 4 Sut,no other times than th4t? ito.. ~ ~ 1Cvw, Mr. Lowe, before you went to the hospital in June, 1952s !a that when you said it was? . A Yes. . Q Did you ever have any kind of an iliness other than the ilinsss that took you to the hospital at that tias? M. It2CiiAIRMOl4s Pardon me just a ainwte. I objrot to that t,eeause that is beyond the scope of the direct ezaiainataon. I did not go into his illnesses at all. I did not ark him anything about his disabilities as a result of thi• acc#,dent, I did not ask him anything that he went to the doators for, or what he told thea, or what they did for him, or rrhat" pain and rutfering. I think that ought to be your dirett: examination. 2 think that you ought to have your own deposition. Rich, i!' you want to etipulate nox, I rouldnO t- uant to stop the deposition'to get a ruling on that, but it you o 0 want to stipulate that our objection Kil]l save on that and i ax not ° N Naiving arvthin$ by the faf lure to go docn and det aruling on it, ~ -33- ,

+rhT, we will proceed. t > Mh. COBMt W'ell, I think that this all has to do with the .dtter that you went into. lE:, RIMM0li= *ill rou .&me on that to saee our point? 14R. COBUlZU I ito, I an going to continue. MR. ZtiCHAHDSOM s Well, I an entitled to stop the deposi- tion and get a ruling of the Court. M. CaBMis t'elY , you may, I cannot stop you t'rom doing that it you please. 4 All right, Do you remnber the question now, Kr. irswo? ,A No, I don't. Q ke12, I will ask it again. Prior to the tiwe you went to the hospital in dura, 1952, did you evlr have any other Ilinesses than which aaused you to go to the hospital at that time? A Did I have srpr other i llns sses? +~ Yes. A 1lot any nort than occasional colds dr samathing like that. ti well, did you ever have pneusonia? A ©h, I ha4.pneuumcsnia when I was around live years old, Q You did? A Yes. 0. fi.LCHUM0Mt Well, I object to that ar9d ask that that be stricken, because a!'ive year old child cannot diagnose the cause on pneumrnia, that Ss based on hearsay at that tiroe, MR. .3HR i You asked hiat when he was born. . , .. 34.. 0 0 L9 0

M:. RICi31.HA40Ns I asked hiR bow old he s•as, I did not uk bir tbat. That is tanily hearsay. That would be entirely improper. q (Ry Xr. CoDurn) kna that the only tie,e you had pneumonia? A Yes. Z Did you ever have influensa? A The flu ?': ~ Flu. A Yes. ~ goa many times? A Oh, I don't knote. I assum that flu ves a cold, an4 that Is how I treated it. I would say occasionalyy txa or three times during the wiAtertim I might have the tlu or a, cold or whatever you want to call it. Q Vell, did you ever have influensa so that you required .edical treatment, calling a doctor? A Gh, no, no. q Never didt q You never went to the hospital either then with a cas. of flu? A ~ 0 Xo, 1t was a very rare ~ ~ thing for me to be siak, that ia to have to have any madical care at all baf ore I was operated on. ~ Did you ever have any irritatioss +of the throat before you _ xent to the hospitalt A Yes. N t,l) ~ q Wi lI you tell us Just i.n your own words what that was Iikt, and of the difficulty you had? r35.r

I I A Well, it was aare or less bronchitis I thought and I coughed and spit up Quite a bit of stuff, you know. q WUA did that begin, Mr. Los^e t A Well, that was -- I wouldn't know exectly, that had been going on for quite a while. I would say several years. q sefore 1952? A Yes. q Well, would you say as much as ten years? A Yes, I would. ,Z Take the timQ when you first eaare down to Crystal City from PaLmyra in the latter part of 19 hundred and 5g, would you say that you xere suffering from a chronic cough and throat irr.ttation at that time? A Yes, I was. q It started then while you were up in PaL~,qrat d Yes. q Did it start uhile you were still In schaolt A No. Q It was sfter thatt A- After that. Iwas a pretty good athlete when I was in echooi. I could gat out an4 run a a11e pretty easily. Q If it started before you went to Crystal City asid while you were up in PalmWra-=about how old were you when 3t started? A I didn't understand you. Q I say about how old were you when It started? Lq 0 o-. Lq 0 N tll A Oh, I would say around 22 yeara old, eoaeftng like that, 23, _36-

Q Well, now, you aers not that 024 when you went to 4 , i Crystal City, were you, or were you? A Ko, I don't think Iwas. 4 ve11, Kait, I don't want to oonfuse you, and I do not want to be confueed.ayse].f. You went down there in 1,935; you M *n DorQ in 1915, trere you not? A Yos@ q go It must have been when you were a little younger that this cough started? A Yeo, It xas. Now, wait a sainute, your question was what? 4 About box old you were when this chronic cough started.. A I would say I was around, I isagirse axwund 21 or 22, sosrathing like that. Q It started when you were in PalsWzla, however, when you went to Crystal City? A Weal, IwouldnIt kncw exactly about that. Q. All riEht. X3u, tell ae about that aough, was this A Rostly of amorning. Mos tly of a maraingt A ' Yes. IR'hen you xould get up? A Yes. Every taorni.ng? a Yea, air. AAd hoK long would It last? A A couple of hours. q And did It increase in intensity as you got older? A Yos, It did. sauething you had at dome tisse of the dar, or did It occur period- Scailyt -37-

A q you had had it say for about ten yeara? A No, I didn't cough constantly. Iwould say approximately two or three hours of a morning and then it would ease ott see, then I would have small coughing spells durirtg'the delr. ~, Uas there an,ything in particular that would bring on those coughing spells? A b"o, I didn't know of anything at that tiw. . ~; You did not notice ar,ything then? No. seemed to brin,g on those coughing spells? A It kept getting aore noticeable all the time? Yea.. Bo that you coughed a good deal of the tise, did you, after Ye*, there xaso i; -k2utt? Q And it was after you smoked a cigarett4 that you would Q i:ell, as you looti .back at it now, was there anything that Ci~sretta~e. i begin to cough, is that right? A Wt,en I get up of a morning it was before an4 after I ssaktd a eigarette, tsut after I smoked a cigarette 3t would isesp to *aae itp~-' Q And you noticed that at the tiW, did you not? A Yes. ~ Did you ever go to a doctor for that chronic cough? 0 o. 0 ~ A ; ~ ;

q You never did? A ho. 4 Did you ever hmve anir trouble, Xr. LoKe, at any time with inligestion, burnin& in the pit of your stomach here (indicating), • you know what indigeation ist A Yest I did. Q You did? A Yes. 4 w'ith any regularity or not? xell, nb, it was about a week I think, something like that. About once a week you Mau2d have It? No, I would say about a week that I had it, and I Ment to 4h, I aiaunderatood you, escuse see. Go ahead. A Ancf bQ gave me soue white Dills to toke, e.nd that was the end of it. , ~ Vun ka.s thatt A I would say arowr%d 1y47, sornerrhere along in there. ~ o ~ Did you ever have any other attacks oP lndigestion than ° 0 that? A N So , t.at .ras tha onl,y one! A "A a tn Ye s. q Did you ever have any trouble xith rerargitating your food! 00 you know what I rmean! kou1d your food come into your mouth after you bad eaten a to3al! A Atter I was operated on, yea, I did, that was about a year af tertaards. -3~-

+~ But not before at all? A lio. a Did you ever have arpr trouble with constipationt t A Atter I was operated on, yes. 41 You had never had any trouble with chronia'constipation ~ khat about before? A H before the operation? You never did? A Mo, eir. q You had not been accustomed to taking mineral oil or $al A iio. A No, sir. ~ To free youree2f, or to ivlieve yourself of oonetipationt A I would take an occasional dose of Sal Hepatica, but I wouldn't aar I was, you know, chronic constipated or anything. Hepatica? 4 I am talking now about the time be!`ore your operatioA. well, that* 3s what 'Ireazi. ~ I iee. 8o you did not have sr4r aifficulty then with .conatipation4 A No. A 1+ith any regularity betore the oper4tiont No.: Did you ever have an ulcer, Xr. Loxe? That 1s what they told ae this was, you know, re, out at the Vetdransi Hospital. ~ That you had a.gastric ulcer, is that right? A YE's. 'When was tt that you were told thatt i.n iW throat A,%

A At Yeterans' &-sDital. nere at Jefferson Sarracks! A Yes -- no, up ber+e on Qran4 Avenue. In Ssint I.ouist A Yes. IR. HICHUhD301is I object to that about what somebody told him, it was hearssy, laproper, and going beyond the limits of direct exaaination, and so on. 4 Mbat was the doctor's uaae that told you you had a g,a-strio uicert A That was Doctor Lawrence. q ti'hsn was that? A That was, I think it Nae 'around six months ago that I was out there. 4 gow, W. Lows, how old were you when you started smoking? A Around 15 years old. $ Uut was it that you first started sspkin,g, was it tobacco or corn silh, or Indian cigars or %rhat! A I startcd to smoking when I was 15 yesrs old, I started Oh, I bea your pardon. A The last time I was to a-making cigarettes. 1 That 1® the first thing you over smoked, was it! Yes. 0 0 ~ a r.j r.r o+ Q A Manufactured cigarettes, or cigarattes that you rolled? Oh, no, when I was a•maller child, trbyp you kaow, why I -j .

ssoloed eornsilk. ~ ir'ell, I do not want to prolong this too much, but wEwA did you first start smoking anprthing of any kind, cornsilk includea? ,A Around nine years old. q And then you ssoked cornsilks oft and on for a while, I guess, did irou? A Yes. Anything else before you were 15? A Iio. i4 And then you started emok.itig cigarettes when you were 15, is that right? A Yes. ;4 'Were those eanufactured eigaarettes, or cigarettes that you rolled yourself? A They were sanuraetured oigarettes, some of t'hen I rolled sqrs.lf. Q Wbst kind of cigarettes roere they? 0 A well, just sost any kind I could get at that tiwo q - Can you reswmber any of the brands at that tiae? A They were Lucky Strike, let s;e oee, I believe 41d Gold, Ca,ae2s, that was about it I think. I don0t remember of any others. . 0 ~ Xow, tell me, Hr. Love, why it xas that you atarted ss~rkingt A t'e11, I donIt know, it is Juet one of those things. Q Just because the other boys did? A I guess eo,, a»re or less. ~ 0 0 o. ~t Non, how loAg did you continue rmoking Just anYbrand tlsat -~f2-

you could get? S Oh, about two or three ~ years, sosething along in there. Q Until you were about 1T or 1$! A Something like that. Q At that time what kind of cigarettes did you smoket A I switched to Caaaels then, almost exclusivol,ir. 4 At that tims, I swan since that time, have you smoked any other cigarettes ttu~n Cawelt A 4h, irea, occasionally I have smoked other tigarettes. Q What other cigarettfst A During the war when you couldn't get cigarettes, what I mean they were hatd to get, I would smoke aost any brand I could get a hold of unless I could got Camels. I had people around through the differint Dlaces, you knox, that would save theu for me, save Camels for me during the xar, and 1 when I couldn't get ttunt, wtyr, I would smoke just siqrthiug. . , . r Q -All right. At snV other tizw than during the wax did you smoke other kinds of cigarettes thsn Camelst A Yes. What was that question? Q I ssy, during the period oth.lr than that of war did you smoke other kinds of cigarettes ttan Camelst A N0, not tf I could g.t them I didp't. * Q Well, but what if you could not get thent C„ ' o; o; ; Ln o; CA e ,a ; A Then I would, sure. Be out and soayebody offer you a c i.garette, well, nsturally, yoa knok, srbpr,. younr.ruld smoke that brand.

4 Any particular brands that you smoked in that way, other than Caaels! A Ho• ;a Juat any kind of brand that you could get? A Yes. Q i itox, when you first started smoking cigarettea back in 19304 how many cigarettes did you ss'ket A well, I started out, I smoked about mybe a pack and a hal!', something like that a day. Q A day? And how long did you continue smoking at that rate? A V-el1, I would say up until about 1937. 3a, when I started to seoke a].ittle bit toore. ia Hox much more t A I would say around two packs a day. ~ By that tisurt A Yed. It graduated as I went oA, you knou, it would fluctuate more or less. 4 Arkd then as I under6tood it, you said before that, after that tiese, you kept incrtasing in the amcrunt of cigarettea that you were awkingP A We11,- I s8y it fluctuated back and #`orth. ~ Yea, but as I understood it, you said on the average you incroased your cigarette consumption after about 1937 or 8 was itT ll Yes. It would average out about two packs a day. ,Q At that tiese! A 1io, all otrer* v81l, Iws.nt to be sure of this now, kar. Loyre, how many ~ 0 0 N i : Lq J ^ O ~ - --~~- .

ciyarettes were you smaking on the average a day in 1937 or 8? A I xould say a pack and a half. q A pack and a half. I thought a woaent ago you said two packages -- W. HIC~AF`.D3O)J: He said he increased about that time to about two packs. Q b'ell, all right, I will ask you this. About 2937 or 38 did you increase your consua,ption of cigarettes to about two pack« ages a day! A They incroased as I went alonZ, naturally.. i4 Weli, I said in 1937 or 1938 did you increase your cigarette consusLption to about two pdckages a.dayt -It Yes, I would aay so. Q After 1937 would you aay you increased! A I would catch mayself saokl.ny about three packs a day rosre time. 7hat'is ahen I would be up late it would fluctuate back and , forth, depending on the awunt of hours I was vp. Q NoK, Mr. Ioue, .frm the time that you were started ssok- ing when you were 15 years old you continued until when? R. ~ . it Until I was operated on! Q +-Un was that4 A That was in 1952. Lq 0 0 Ln 0 N o ~ #~ ikhat sronth4 A ApMl, _- was it A.pril! I think lt xas April of 1952 is when I was operatrecd on. Q• And you have not swOked since then? -45- .

_ ~ Did you ever try to stop smoking during that period of time? A Xo. Q You never even tried? A Xo. ;~ During that period of tiae did you ever sroke anytlsing besides cigarettest A I1o. ~ You never eeaoked a pipei' g Gb, 'occastonally I would ssoke a pipe. You knotw, I had one 1n the drarrer and very seldom did I ever take it out and smoke It though. ~ IIefore you broubht this suit In which this deposition is being taken at the present time you filed an oarlior case, did you aot, in the Federal Courtt ~ Yes. c~ In which you sued not only the Reynolds Tobacco CorpatW, but the Asxerican Tobacco CompanT and P. Loriliard and 8roxn-i+'llliawt- ~ , son Tobacco Cospany, all vanufacturers of cigarettes, is that not- rigbt4 Q A Ycs. khy did you sue the Am{rrican Tobacco Company? ke11, I will xith3raw that question. Dut in this oase you have brought suit against only the Reynolde Company anou,g the manufacturers. A Yes. t~ Xou, why did you sue the American Tobacco Company in that first caset ~ 0 0 LA 0 fJ .~ -4 W KM. RICKARDSaNt Well, Kait a minute. I object to that,

that calls for a conclusion and his la.ryer is the ont'that ti2ed the suit, and that would call for a conclusion of law. This tritness would not be cospetent to answer such a question as that. M. CCnURN s You ssqy answer. iR. LO'ICEs Ue1l, I think I would have to stay with aq attorney on that, I wauldnOt know what to answer on that question. ;a You just don't know then why you sued the Avieriaan Tobacco Cosparut, is that right? A That is true, that was up to ey attorney. J uould the same apply to your bringing suit against P. Lorillard in that first case! A Yes, yes. . 4 And SroNn-i*il2iaasont A Yes. t~ Now, in that first case you also sUed the Oreat lltUntic a.nd paciric Tea CosRpan,y, did you nott A Yes. a But did not in this casel A 13o. ~ Wtxy did you sue the Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Coapany in the first caaet M. icICKAYDSOHt Sax obsection that I have turetofore made that that would be a que$tion of larr for bie attorney to an$ner, and it would not be a question that this witness could anawer, or o. would be Qualified to en$reer, It would call for a conclusion of 0 law on hi s part. ° ~tA '. PA. XAat` I 3ust k=ouldn• t tcnow, ;?, -47-

4 (By lsr. Coburn) You just do not know? i. A Yes. @ Will you give me the nansa of your grandparents, please? A l+~y grandtattrer on spr lather's side was Georgt Lowe. ry brandmother's pamt Q On your tather's sidet A Yes, (Continuing) Was P.arg I thi nk. K Mary Lowet A Yes. q And if I sey interrupt you Just a ssoment, where did they livo, it you know? A They lived In Kentuciqr and moved from Keatucky up into Mssouri. ~ Where? PaLqyri? A Around Palayra, around Philadelphia, Palmyra, Emerson and In there. Q And were they living there at their death? A I suppose so, yes. Q All right. Xox, uhett about your mother's parenta, or your maternal grandparents? A PW grandfather I dan't remember what his naw uas. I believe -- no. The last naw was Hutchibon, but I can't for the 1e fe of ma tell you the first name. 4 ihat ib your grandfather's first najw! A Yes, ow grandtather and grandmother both I can't tell you the first nems. ~4 But their lamt nare wae Hutchieont A All I "member them by was Qran1mther aud OrarAfatber -~A- ----- _ N ~ .~;

iNtcbison. Q Did they live in the Pale+Wra areat K A And died there? A Yea. Did you have or still have arW aunts or uncleaf . . They are aroun4 Pslswra, yes. ta VarW of theat A Yes. ke1l,, I don't know to tell you the truth. Q. Do you xasa.%ber their na.aes? Xo, I don't. It has been years and years since I seen any of thera. 4 You would not know the nsrws ot' any of theat No. But they all. lived in the Palatyra area, did th+eyT A Yes, around there. q itow, &Ir. Lowe, you say in the petition that. you filed in this case tt,at you bought Cawl cigai*tter trom a mn by the Aamt . of Pat I+4sriaRt who runs a little store down on Laclede Avenue,. is . that rightY A 14 Yes, that !.r right. That you did? A YeA, aen tiras it that you boitght cigarottes from iiia? ( A It was bQfore Iwent into the hospital to be operated on atxout, oh, about a year betvre, aomthing like that. You know, l during the hear leading up to the tirte Z went 3nto the hospital. -~S+ .

4 You wore living where at that tims9 A At 4347 West Pine. q And how long had you lived thaer., when did you first start livirz there t . A itell, we lived there for five years, aM I couldn't tell you exactly xhsn a3 noved t3ore. ~ Were }ou tiror'#drag at the Lincoln Tngineering Con+parW at the ti"t A Yes. I think it was in 1947 ~ believe we mved over there. t~ ;All rJZht.#ov, during w2at period of time vaa It that you br,ught cigsrettes i'rom pr. Asrisa, for about a year you say before you went to the hospital for your operation? A Yea. c4 Did you buy ail your cigarettes from him? A Yo$. q Frow no ox* elee'! A Ao. q+1hmt kind of cigarvttes did you buy from him? . A Ca~ 18. N N ; Any other kind at all? A No. G,nIy when he wai+ ~~ out once 3ne U'htie ftnd he would sell ns a pack of Li:ckisa orr som- thitg like t2at. q timn you bought cigax*ttea there did you trade exclusively with 1w. Msr1 aaY q No one 02601 A That is right. A Oh, hia clerk, his wife. q There weXv just the two of t#kx in the store, were there ~0"

not? A Tb.re was bira an4 his wite and then the butcher. I ~ Just the three then? A Yes. ;~ You never bought any cigarettes from the butcher though? A N 4 Always from Mr. Msrian or his wite! A Yes. ,4 Nc3w, trhen you bought those cigarettes from Mr. Harlas or his wife, were they always in sealed psckages or sot4 A Yes. q You never bought them !n broken packages! A So. tiow, what do you mean by that? A Well, Iman when he gave you a packsge of eig,arirttes or arW kind of cigarettes that you baught, tror* they alKe,ys seale+d up or nott A .It r6u neaa avhole carton -~ 4 Xo, I do not man that. Iwin as to yackaos. A They v as always sealed up. Q That is you never bought less than one package of aealed Ci~arattesT A That ts right. Q &owti.e,es you x*uld buy oertons, but not less than sealed ~ 0 0 Ln 0 N U v v packaKes4 A That is right. ~ia ltc3wr, PX. Lowe, you say In your petition that the defendants here advertised Cwwl cigarettes. Kow, -I have 2n mind only thist

Whet a+dvertssins did M.r. MWariax do? A Well, now, I don't reassber any advertisewnt that he did for cigarettes. There rpuet have been some tAete, but then I never paid any attention. lRR. "rh t I etwe that that be stricken that there =ust have been some there. Q Then you have no knwledge then, as I understand it, of any advertising of Cawl cigarettes that was done by. Kr. Kariax4 It !io. ~ Did FX. llarian or Mrs. Marien in selling you any cigarettes ever saioe any ,tatentents or reprQsenLations to you of any kind, with reference to Caeal cigarettes? A No. M. OAMNs I believe that ie all. Cl~Od,S -EX~t ~itA~`IC~Ii s BY KR. 10SE h ia I have juDt a question or tt.o, Mr. Low. I believe you said that you lived at this -4347 West Pine address about five yoari4 A Yes, air. ~ Zs that a roaa.tng house, or what is that there? A That ie an apartment house. 41 And during the year that imeediatel,y preceded your entry to the tospital, I suppose that was the last of that five years~ o ~. tbat you lived there? A Yer. o' N N , ~ You boight Clse,rettl~TGp~ ~3l'. Mar1Wt ; , -

, A YeR. 4 4 Now, from xhom did you buy the aigarettea during the four preceding years while you lived there? A The proprietor of the store that Mr. Jkrlam bought fraa hiea. ~ In othur Kordi, 14r. lSariam succeeded to the oxnerahip of this store? A Ycs. I can't tr*r give you the neme of the gentlem+en that owns the store. 4 Before Mr. NsrAwm? A Yes. I an about thrr,u.gh. Shall I proceed tlirther, or shall I Kait, r,r. LOxe? A i4it juat a few minutes, please. (A brief recess was t"eq for the benefit of the witness.) ia (By Mr. Koser) During this five year period, did you buy all of the cigarettes that you ueed at this particular store, or did you buV any of thesa elaetatscre? A Occasionally I would buy a pack of cig$rettes when I would go down in the country and sacae of those plaots dovA there, or m,aybe at the drug store I would buy a pack, but I would say that the grcatest percentage of the cigaxwttes that I bought, around 95%,- Kould have beeA from the grocery atore. , a From the atore that either Mr. Mariaa or his predecessor N , lnl ` -4 oparated? F53_ A Yes. ~~

That is on Laolede Avenue, is it not! i A Yes, that is correct. 5ee, he would send be aq cigarettes right along with aqr groceries. 4 You did not buy ariy trom A " r during that tina 4 Xo. KR. KGEkt That is all. W. COBM s I noticed in going over sW notes that there were a few things I meant to ask the aitrwas about that I did not cover. It4 will not take a soment it I may ask a few aare questions. FUHTIM CFt0.SS-SXAXMTIuX BY M. CflBUhM t 4 iir. Love, you sai4 in'your direct exa~ination that you had seon certain .rlvertise®ents with reterence to Caw1 aigat'tttes ttWt influenced you !A continuing to moke those cigaYbttes, did you not? A Yes. q tsne of then you said was a T-sons sdvertisement. A Yes. . ~ q vUt kind of aaveartisement roas that, 3n substance4 C30 ~ 0 A That there was no irritation to the ttrost franr aeaoking ~ co Ce,oels. q kas that in the msgacines or nerrepaDere that you saw that, or over the radiot A 14sgasines. q %'htA was it that you saw that adv+ertiaementt A . Ch, I trouldtalt k.norr.44=t ls iA -- I suppose you could sti 11 -

see it in a lot ot these Ll.te ea,g.azines aad things liko ttut. ~ I aOre that the supposition be strickep. Ijust Msnt to know when It was that you did see It when you told us. Y.N. RICRARDSOH: Re has answered it, tae said na. ki. C©BUiJt: tell, naw, do not proept the wltrwss. . kR. RICt3A,RD3oS= sie11, hee has ansvcred it, that is repe- titlous. - 1 (By Xr. Coburo) Could you te2) us when It xaa, rx. Lwe4 A Xo, I couldn't. or nat4 kell, was It after you had moved down tere to Saint Louis A Oh, yes, it was atter I saved here to Saint Louis. ti Wa,s it before the war? A ~6e21, now, I wouldn't know whether it was before the war or not, but 3t was certainly atter the war. q Atter the war you saw that advertisezent'! A Yes. I donlt know whether It advertised duritg the war or not that way. ;a But you did see It at`ter the warT A Yes. ! 4 All right. Now then, you say thatyou also saw this, or at least bad your attention called to their adYertisesaents that Ln Lq 0 Cauels do not Irritate your throat, was that in a tavxapaper, by N newspaper, or by radio? A l:ragazine. -_ -55- ~ up -4 ,

C; And when did those advertised.nts sppeart a A You caa hear on the radio, and on teletisioq, see it iA the measines aavertised where these different doctors would get up and tell about •moking CaWls. That they smoked Ce,tiaels, that there was no irritatioA to the throat, no 111 effect frose smoking Camels. Q U'hfin ras thatt A W.11, I MouldnIt know, you can still hear their aatartisements on the television. .q ime that before tho xar or after the war? A :.eli, it was after te war, befors the war. §4 During ths war? A Yes. :i It was. Can you tell us anysYare +doae2,Y than that when it was that you wera influenaed by thoss adrertiseantst A No, I aouldnOt pick out just arir advortisemtnt and tell you exactly when it was that I had san it aA rtad it, that would be, Z-think, asking too saacb of .~,yone. ~ You sa,y that you Kere operated on in April, X belieoe you said, 1952, what hospital was that? A The Jewish ii-3sp4tal. Q kho was the doctor that performed the operation? A Doctor Fluda, G~ khat Yudd is thatt A That is the -- Q I man what Is his first tuawt A I donOt know what Ms first naew is. Q Just Doctor Muddt ,~ A Yes, tA o: 0 N +

4 tiave iou bee n i n the bospi tal s ince then? A Yes, Ijust caeo out of the bospital. ,4 khat hospital was that? A JoMish bospital. ;4 And who was your doctor there? A Doctor London. Q I aan sorry, I did not tear you. A London. Z Doctor Londont A Yes. a J.-s you know his f irst nam or middle 3.nitial! A H3, I dvn•t. i~ iie exami ned you there in the h:,spi ta1, did he? A Yea. Mit. COEUMt That is all. hEDIFiECT MIUh11TION B1t Im. RIChAMUNt ,4 Ira, I have Just got one or two questions. You say you . bought your cigarettee from Kr, Mariam about a year before you went in the hospital, and then from his predeceasor for soms period befare that? A Yes. ~ Hsd you, priorto that, bought mat~,y ot your cigarettes from the Atlantic and Pacific Tea Cw%pany, the A and P Stores? A Oh, I did oceasionally, yes. We used to trade with the A and P Co"ry, and berore that I bought mW cigarettes wtex'ever I bought sW groceries, c 0 ~ 0 c7D -57-

~ All right. ar.e other question that I wanted to ask was wbethes, to your knowledge, you hO ever beon exposed to srUr great SMaunt of dust or gasses or tbmes or nssoke, either where you xsrkrd or xhere you lived, or aRq' other place other than the tivn you in- haled thesv tigarettes? I~. Com:K: M.21, be has already correred that as I recall it, and Desides tt is so br"d, it is too broad. k I vncier8tand, but I just want to know. ro yctwknowledge have you evcr inhaIed duat, or gasses, or lums, other than these eigarettes? A lio• ~lEt, CahC3iN: That called for a conclusion, r.ot a at.atecent of tact and It Is ob; Ec2td to. q Then the t`ine.l qucstion was, i:r. Love, a<ae thgrt evtr #my tie* that you were out of rl,sarettes, if tl,ert wsa, how it 's"* you feel xton Fou cou2dn't get a ciZarOttert M. CCMM I object to that at+ beinp, altagettzer incofspe- tent and irre3evant. q Tell us. ~ kell, it sAde s't feel Irritable, and I don't kww. ?sturall,x I srattc-d a cige,retto. I wanted to swke. That would be about all that I could tell you. W. RICIiAHD,SQRe That iss all. r - .. - .. : w .. .. .r .. {Thareupon signaWTO of the witness was t+al.ved by sj)E'ollYe s'&vteraent awng counsel and coa- sent oT the xitrwas.) I

STATE oP 1[I3SLWfiI, ) ) ss. CrN"r oF sT. InvIS.) ~ z I, EWAf.D C. tAaRMCB, JH., a notary public duly conawis- aioned and qua2ified in and for the County of St. Ir)uis, which adjoins the City of St. Lauis, State of Missouri, do hereby certify that pursuant to aE,re+eaent among counsel cs,m beforQ me on the 1st day of Cctober, A.D., 19r,,,A, at Aparttwnt 5, 2fr2i-A Louisiana AYerxue, in the City of St. huis, State of Missouri, IttA C. L01%=,, the plain- tift, who was by so duly srac:rn to testifs to the truth and nothing but the truth of his tmowledge touching and concerning the matters In controvQrsy in this Qase j that he was thereupon exWne<d upon oath, and hic txdmination reduced to w°ritS.rr, by me; that the deposi- tion is a true record of the testimony given by the witness; and that his signature was specifically vaivcd by .gr®+emnt among counsel and consent of the tritnoss. I-further eertify that I ssr neither attorrwy nor counsel for no.r related to nor eVioyed by any of the parties to the action in which this deposition 3s taken; and, furth+er, that I ast not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel +emp2oyed by the parties hereto, or financia2ly interested in the action. Y!Q WYZ'lMSS WHLRE4F, I have hereunto set my hffirA and s,ffixed - my notarial seal this day ot i A.D., 19541. l~r comaission euyires July 13, 1$58. liotary Public. -59-