Tobacco Documents Online

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:06:32 00:06:34 00:06:34 00:06:36 00:06:38 00:06:40 00:06:40 00:06:52 00:06:54 00:06:56 00:06:58 00:07:00 00:07:02 00:07:04 00:07:06 00:07:08 00:07:10 00:07:14 00:07:16 00:07:18 00:07:24 00:07:38 00:07:42 00:07:4 2 00:07:46 11 1 A. I was testifying on -- on both. 2 Q. Were you a treating physician in any of those 3 cases? 4 A. No. 5 Q. So you were testifying as an expert witness in 6 those cases? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Approximately how many such depositions have you 9 given in the last nine years? Again I'm looking for 10 a rough estimate, not exactly. 11 A. Depositions or testimony? 12 Q. Let's go with depositions first and then I'll 13 ask you testimony second. 14 MR. MERRITT: This is excluding the ones in 15 his capacity as a CTR person. 16 MR. O'FALLON: Right. This is excluding 17 the CTR depositions. 18 A. Possibly six. 19 Q. And you've testified in trial how many times in 20 the last nine years, excluding anything done on 21 behalf of The Council for Tobacco Research? 22 A. Again, approximately a half dozen. 23 Q. Have you ever testified at trial on behalf of 24 The Council for Tobacco Research? 25 A. No, sir. STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 CxT R M N 0 4 " `822 1

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:07:50 00:07:52 00:07:52 00:08:04 00:08:08 00:08:10 00:08:12 00:08:14 00:08:14 00:08:18 00:08:22 00:08:24 00:08:26 00:08:26 00:08:28 00:08:30 00:08:32 00:08:34 00:08:36 00:08:38 00:08:42 00:08:44 00:08:46 00:08:56 12 1 Q. Are you currently scheduled to testify in the 2 Florida class action lawsuit? 3 A. No. 4 Q. I'd just like to talk for a quick minute about 5 your testimony and consulting in medical malpraczice 6 cases. 7 Are you part of a group of surgeons or a group 8 of doctors who consults as part of a company? 9 A. No. 10 Q. I ask that because there is around the cour.:~ry 11 several search organizations, and certain doctors -- 12 doctors are participants. You aren't one of those; 13 correct? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So when you've been contacted in those cases, 16 you've simply been contacted individually? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Have you throughout your career been a 19 testifying expert in medical malpractice cases? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Can you give me a rough estimate of how many 22 times you've either been listed as an expert or 23 testified, either through deposition or at trial, in 24 medical malpractice cases? 25 A. Perhaps 40. STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 1T R 111 N 0 4 02' 8 -2- 02

C O N F I D E N T I A L 13 00:09:00 00:09:02 00:09:04 00:09:06 00:09:08 00:09:14 00:09:16 00:09:24 00:09:26 00:09:30 00:09:30 00:09:32 00:09:38 00:09:38 00:09:40 00:09:42 00:09:44 00:09:48 00:09:50 00:10:02 00:10:16 00:10:16 00:10:20 00:10:24 00:10:30 1 Q. Currently when you testify as an expert in 2 cases, are you paid an hourly fee? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What are you paid? 5 A. Well it depends on the circumstances, whether I 6 have to travel or not, so the fee is variable. 7 Q. What is the range of the fees? 8 A. Oh, anywhere from 200 to 400 dollars an hour. 9 Q. Is there any distinction made there between 10 whether you're giving deposition testimony as opposed 11 to trial testimony? 12 A. No. 13 Q. So it's 200 for non-traveling cases and 400 for 14 traveling cases? 15 A. No, I didn't say that. 16 Q. Okay. How do you make -- what -- 17 what's a distinction you make there when -- in 18 regarding how much you bill per hour? 19 A. Time and effort, and how much time I have to 20 spend away from my usual occupation. 21 Q. What is your current salary at The Council for 22 Tobacco Research? 23 A. Three hundred fifty thousand dollars a year. 24 Q. And that's your total compensation that you 25 receive each year? What I mean, I know you hold STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 C T R r' I N 0 4r "2 8 22 3

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:10:30 00:10:34 00:10:34 00:10:36 00:10:42 00:10:46 00:10:48 00:10:48 00:10:52 00:10:56 00:10:58 00:11:00 00:11:00 00:11:02 00:11:04 00:11:06 00:11:06 00:11:10 00:11:12 00:11:14 00:11:14 00:11:18 00:11:20 00:11:24 14 1 several positions. Is that the total amount you 2 receive as both chairman of the board, CEO, and 3 president? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. In addition I believe you're also working 6 still as the -- you hold a position at the University 7 of Kentucky? 8 A. A number of them, yes. 9 Q. Okay. How much salary or other compensation do 10 you receive as a member of the University of Kentucky 11 College of Medicine? 12 A. I don't believe that's any of your business, Mr. 13 O'Fallon . 14 MR. MERRITT: Is there any relevance to his 15 other income? I mean this is -- 16 MR. O'FALLON: I'm just trying to figure 17 out every place he works and kind o= the whole 18 package. I guess what I want to know is how much 19 he's receiving from CTR as opposed to his other -- 20 his other employment, so I think there is some 21 relevance. 22 MR. MERRITT: Is there a way we could -- 23 can ou -- y 24 Can we pass on this for t he time being and come 25 back to it after -- after the break? This is STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 C" T R- t I N 0 4`82 4

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:11:26 00:11:28 00:11:32 00:11:34 00:11:36 00:11:38 00:11:40 00:11:42 00:11:42 00:11:46 00:11:48 00:11:50 00:11:50 00 : 11 : 52 00:11:56 00:11:56 00:11:58 00:11:58 00:12:00 00:12:00 00:12:00 00:12:02 00:12:02 00:12:04 00:12:04 15 1 obviously -- 2 I understand your -- your argument on relevance, 3 but, you know, it's his other sources of income which 4 may not be, you know, just limited to what he gets 5 from the University of Kentucky. I mean obviously 6 these are -- are very private -- 7 MR. 0'FALLON: Well I'm not -- 8 MR. MERRITT: -- things that I don't -- 9 MR. O'FALLON: I'm not after -- 10 Just so we're clear, I'm not after his prirate 11 investment income and that kind of thing, I'm just 12 basically looking for the income he receives as a 13 doctor. 14 MR. MERRITT: Is there any way to ask 15 him -- to ask him in a comparative sense? 16 Well, I'd like to be able to talk to him 17 about -- 18 MR. O'FALLON: Well -- 19 MR. MERRITT: -- maybe answering the 20 question -- 21 MR. O'FALLON: -- I'll pass on this -- 22 MR. MERRITT: -- and maybe give you ycur -- 23 MR. O'FALLON: -- but I do want to come 24 back to it. 25 MR. MERRITT: Okay. STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 C T R ' I N 0 4 2- 82M 5

C O N F I D E N T I A L 16 00:12:04 00:12:06 00:12:12 00:12:16 00 :12 :16 00:12:18 00:12:20 00:12:26 00:12:28 00:12:32 00:12:34 00:12:38 00:12:38 00:12:40 00:12:42 00:12:46 00:12:48 00:12:50 00:12:52 00:12:58 00:13:00 00:13:02 00:13:06 00:13:06 00:13:14 1 BY MR. O'FALLON: 2 Q. Approximately how many hours a year do you spend 3 as -- either doing activities connected with your job 4 as CEO, president, or chairman of the board of The 5 Council for Tobacco Research? 6 A. I've never calculated that. 7 Q. Well can you give me just roughly? Do you spend 8 90 percent of your time doing those jobs? 9 A. Well I'm -- 10 I am essentially in the employ of The Council 11 for Tobacco Research a hundred percent of my ti-e. 12 Q. But you're also in the employ of other peo:'_e as 13 well; correct? 14 A. I have -- I have other activities as well, as 15 most people do. 16 Q. I understand that. And -- and what I'm -- 17 And that's part of why I'm asking about money, 18 because other peop_e have other activities bu:t other 19 people don't necessarily have other paid activit'_es, 20 and so I'm trying to get some feel for what chur.t of 21 your life you dedicate to The Council for Tobacco 22 Research, your working life, not your personal ?ife. 23 Approximately how many hours do you work per 24 week? 25 A. About 80 hours a week. STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 C' T Rt - I N 0 42 8. 6

(' C O N F I D E N T I A L 17 00:13:14 00:13:16 00:13:16 00:13:16 00:13:18 00:13:20 00:13:24 00:13:28 00:13:30 00:13:32 00:13:34 00:13:36 00:13:38 00:13:40 00:13:44 00:13:44 00:13:46 00:13:48 00:13:52 00:13:52 00:13:54 00:13:56 00:14:00 00:14:02 00:14:04 1 Q. Of those 80 hours per week, how many of those 2 hours do you devote to your work for The Council for 3 Tobacco Research? 4 A. I've never calculated that. 5 Q. what would be your best guess? 6 A. I don't have a best guess. I don't guess at 7 things. I either know or I don'~-- know. 8 Q. Well sir, do you think you wor:t more than 40 9 hours doing your job as -- 10 A. Well -- 11 Q. -- president -- 12 A. -- I've explained to you, Mr. C'Fallon, I'm at 13 the service of The Council for Tobacco Research for 14 whatever number of hours is required, either in 15 person, on the premises, by telephone, or by other 16 means of communication. 17 Q. I understand that, sir. I'm simply trying to 18 figure out what percentage of your working time you 19 spend performing those tasks, and do you have an 20 estimate for me? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. So you can't tell me whether you spend 50 23 percent of your working time every year working at 24 the -- for The Council for Tobacco Research. 25 A. I am 100 percent employed by The Council for STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 E~~~R ~~~ ~~~~~ ~

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:14:04 00:14:06 00:14:08 00:14:10 00:14:10 00:14:14 00:14:16 00:14:20 00:14:24 00:14:26 00:14:30 00:14:32 00:14:36 00:14:38 00:14:40 00:14:40 00:14:42 00:14:44 00:14:46 00:14:50 00:14:54 00:14:56 00:14:58 00:15:02 00:15:04 18 1 Tobacco Research. 2 Q. Okay. Well you -- 3 Are you also 100 percent em ployed by the 4 University of Kentucky School of Medicine? 5 A. Yes, sir. As required. 6 Q. Okay. So you're 100 percen t employed by at 7 least two employers. Is there a nybody else that 8 you're 100 percent employed by? 9 A. Mr. O'Fallon, I don't think you understood the 10 answer and I think your questiorn is naive. 11 Q. I'm sorry, sir. I guess I' m entitled to be a 12 certain amount of naive here. I 'm simply trying to 13 figure out what it is you do and how it is you do it. 14 A. Mr. O'Fallon, what you want to know is my gross 15 income, and I don't think that's any of your 16 business. 17 Q. Well sir, actually right no w I'm trying to get 18 around that gross-income problem . I'm trying to ask 19 you how many hours you work. 20 A. Well if we can bring this t o closure, let me 21 simply say that my salary from T he Council for 22 Tobacco Research constitutes les s than half of my 23 total income. 24 Q. well that helps me get one piece of information, 25 but there's still another piece of information I'm STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 C l F I \ I I 1 I 0 4 fai 8(~ G

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:15:06 00:15:10 00:15:12 00:15:14 00:15:16 00:15:20 00:15:22 00:15:24 00:15:24 00:15:28 00:15:28 00:15:32 00:15:34 00:15:36 00:15:38 00:15:40 00:15:42 00:15:44 00:15:46 00:15:48 00:15:50 00:15:50 00:16:20 00:16:20 00:16:22 19 1 looking for, which is how much of your working life 2 you dedicate to doing your work at The Council for 3 Tobacco Research. Independent of your compensation. 4 I'm trying to figure out whether 50 percent of your 5 time every year is spent doing work for The Council 6 for Tobacco Research and the other 50 percent of your 7 time is doing work at the University of Kentucky, or 8 basically what that mix is. I'm just trying to get 9 some understanding, sir. 10 A. Well I'll accent your figures. That's perfectly 11 reasonable. 12 Q. Well whether it's reasonable or not, the 13 question is whether it's true. You're the only one 14 who knows that. Is -- is that -- 15 Would that be your rough approximation, that you 16 spend approximately 50 percent of your time -- 17 A. That would be -- 18 Q. -- working for The Council for Tobacco Research 19 and about 50 percent of your time working for the 20 University of Kentucky and -- and whatever other 21 pursuits you have? 22 A. I think that's fair. 23 Q. And less than 50 percent of income comes -- 24 strike that. 25 Less than 50 percent of your income per year STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 ~~~ CTR MN 042

C O N F I D E N T I A L 00:16:26 00:16:26 00:16:26 00:16:48 00:16:52 00:16:54 00:16:58 00:17:00 00:17:02 00:17:06 00:17:10 00:17:10 00:17:14 00:17:16 00:17:18 00:17:24 00:17:26 00:17:26 00:17:30 00:17:32 00:17:32 00:17:34 00:17:36 00:17:38 00:17:40 20 1 comes from your work for The Council for Tobacco 2 Research; correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. What I'd like to do is briefly go through your 5 background, and I've got your resume and I just want 6 to ask you some questions about that. 7 As I understand it, you graduated from medical 8 school in 1952; correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. You did your first residency at Brigham Hospital 11 in Boston, and that residency ended in 1954? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You did another residency in urology at Duke 14 University, and that residency ended in 1959? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. You then remained on at Duke as an instructor in 17 urology through '59; correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. At that point in time you moved to Yale, where 20 you became an assistant professor of urology; 21 correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And you did that from 1959 to 1961; correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. You were then an associate professor of urology STIREWALT & ASSOCIATES P.O. BOX 18188, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55418 1-800-553-1953 i.r -f R f f N 04,2?.Li 30