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In The Matter Of: Norma R. Broin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28, 1997 O'Brien & Levine Court Reporting Services 1287 Commonwealth Avenue - Boston, MA 02134 (617) 254-2909 FAX: (617) 254-1868 Original FileJh281cpzmal; 250 Pages Afin-U Script0 File ID: 1678209435 Word Index included with this Min-U-Script® CTR t-IN ~'~4211 5

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Norma R. Broin, et a1 v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28, 199? (t) Volume: I I (1) Page 2 APPEARANCES: Pages: 11o 250 ~(21 STANLEY M. ROSENBLATT. P.A. (Z) Exhbits: 1 to 44 B M M Schne' y ary argarel ider, Esqure [31 (3) 66 West Flagler Street. 12th Floor (41 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 11TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT I Miami. Florkla 33130 IN AND FOR DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA 141 305 374-6131 (s1 GENERAL JURISDICTION DIVISION I Representing Norma R. Broin, et al. (61 i [sl NORMA R. BROIN, et al., i SHOOK, HARDY & BACON. LLP (7) PlalrMiNs, ~ 161 By BAy R. Randles, Esquire (8) vs. CNiI Action and Robert E. Northrp, Esquire No. 91-49738 CA22 [17 One Kansas City Place 191 PHILIP MORRIS COMPANIES, INC., 1200 Main Street et al., ~ Kansas City, Missoun 64105-2118 [101 Defendants. 816 474-6550 R i Phi M I I111 i (91 epresent ng lp orris Companies. nc., [121 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF FREDDY ~ and Lorilard HOMBURGER. M.D., a witness called on behalt of the (10) [13) PlaintiNs,taken pursuant to the applicable I I provisions of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (1t) DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON By Steven Klugman, Esquire ~ (14) before Cynthia A. Powers, Shorthand Reporter and Notary publish in and for the Commonwealth of (+21 and Peter Johnson, Esquire 875 Third Avenue (15) Massachusetts, at the law offices ol Goodwin, Procter New York, New York 10022 & Hoar, Exchange Place, 53 State Street. Boston. (131 212 909-6649 (t6) Massachusetts 02109, on Wednesday, May 28, 1997, commencing at 11:10 a.m. 1 (t41 Representing The Council for Tobacco Research-U.S.A.,Inc. (+71 JONES, DAY. REAVIS & POGUE [18) By David B. Alden, Esquire 1191 I(t61 North Polnt, 901 Lakeside Avenue 1201 ~ Cleveiend, Ohio 44114 (21] O'BRIEN & LEVINE j(») 216 586-3939 COURT REPORTING SERVICES I (221 1285-87 Commonwealth Avenue I[t61 Representing R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company Boston, Massachusetts 02134 [231 617 254-2909 (t91 I ALSO PRESENT: [241 SHOOK. HARDY & BACON. LLP 1201 Vicki B. Thompson, Senior Analyst ((211 Theresa Becker One Kansas City Place irm 1200 Main Street Kansas Ciy, Missour164105-2118 816 474-6550 O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 Min-U-Smipt® (3) - Page 2 CJ R- N N 0 42 11 -i i

Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28,1997 ItI fNDEX Depositlon of: Dired Cross Redirsd Recross (2) Freddy Fbmburyer, M.D. By Ms. Sohnslder 9 239 (3) By Mr. Rsrrtles 34 By Mr. Kluyman 211 243 141 By Mr. Alden 236 (51 (61 PLAINiIFFS' EXHIBfTS (7) ExhbM Page (q I Memorandum dated 4/1?J74 30 (91 DEFENDANTS'EXHIBRS Exhblt Page [ta1 1 Chronology on Documenlatbn 39 (t tl on CTR, 2 pg. letter dated 3R4/T7, 1 pg. letter dated 1121 3/2l/3, 1 pg. letter dated 3/13r13, 1 pg. letter dated 031 3R173, t pg. letter dated 3n3/73, 2 pg. letter dated (t41 2R6/13, 4 pg. letter dated 5/16/74 1151 2 Document entilled 'Inhalation 52 (t6) Carcinopenesis' (t17 3 1 pg. letter dated 5/14/74 54 , and document entitled (161 •Clgarene Smoke Inhulation Studies in InDred Syrian (t91 Hamsters' (201 4 2 pg. letter dated 61d/74 57 to Homburger from Hockett [2t1 5 Document entnled •Strain 63 (M Differences in the Response of InDred Syrian Hamsters (231 to Cigarette Smoke IrVtalatbn' (241 Page 3 - Page 4 (4) Norma R Broin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al Page 3 (tl DEFENDANTS'EXHIBRS Exhbil Page m 131 (4) (s] (s1 (n (el (9) (t0( (tt) (121 113) (ul (t5) (tby (t11 (te) 1191 (20) IZ+1 6 Document entNled •Progress 67 7 Report for the Current Contract Period and Renevral AppYcatbn for N 58 (wMh Budget) 3 pg. letter tlated 10/V68 71 to Hockeft from Homburper 8 Letter dated 12R3ro9 to 75 9 LisaMi from Homtwryer enclosing draft agreement Letter dated 1/6/70 w11h 77 10 enclosed letter of UJJ7o Letter dated 6/19//9 with 80 t 1 enclosures Document eniNbd •Skin 86 2 PakNag Technfques and in vNo Carcinogenesis Bbasseys• Document entltled'Pulmonary 91 13 Histopathobpy of Hamsters Exposed to Smoke' Letter dated 6/6l73 to 95 Hockett from Berrtfeld with 14 enclosure Letter aated 2l7/73 to 103 15 Jacob from Homburger Photocopy of Bio-Research 104 t:onsullants. Inc.. advertlsemerM 16 Letter dated 2/26/73 to 107 (221 Homburger from Hoyt and document entNled'In- (231 halatbn Studies with Cigarette Smoke' Page 4 Min-U-Scripts O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 l,.,r T R- 11 N 4-w) 4' ~' :. 118

Norma It. Broin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al (t) DEFENDAPfTS'EXHIBRS Exhbit Page (~l 17 Letter dated 3/2/73 to 111 (3) . Hoyt from Homburger (4) 18 Letter dated 3/13113 to 112 Hornburger irom Hoyt [s1 19 Letter dated 8!7/73 to 115 (s] Hornburger from Hockett (7) 20 Letter dated 8/d0/73 to 127 Homburger from Hockett (e) 21 Letter dated 8/d0l73 to 128 (91 Hornburger from Hockett (to) 22 Letter dated 328174 to 132 Hockett from Homburger and (t t) document ent11/ed'Strain Differences in the Response of Irtbred Syrian Hamsters to Cigarette Smoke Inhalatan' (13) 23 Document entitled 'Fktal 145 (141 Report on Contract C-191, A Project Entlued The (157 Determination of the Usefulness of the Syrian (t61 Golden Hamster as Model Animal for Inhalation Studfes' (17) 24 Letter dated 2/28174 to 147 (ts( Hockett from Homburger (t9) 25 Photocopy of article 153 entitled 'Sugar in Tobacco' from The Lancet. March 10, 1973 (2t] 26 Document entilled'Abstracts: 156 (22) Twelfth Annual Meeting' (23] 27 Document entilled'Carcino- 156 genesis II' (24) Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28, 1997 Page 5 I i ~ (t1 ~ CA DEF Exhb4 Page 6 ENDANTS'EXHIBRS Page j i I i Cs1 141 m Document entNled'Straln 156 Differences in the Response of Inbred Syrian Hamsters to Cigarette Smoke Inhalation' (s) 29 Document enUtled'Experf 156 I i (g] [n 30 memal Lung Cance. Carc'va- genesis and Bioassays' Document entMbd'Smokers' 156 I (a) (9) Larynx and Carcinoma of the Larynx in Syrian Hamsters Exposed to Cigarette Smoke' ~ 31 Document entilied'Horno- 156 1(to1 transplantation of Larynxes I (111 of Cigarette Smoke-Exposed Syrian Hamsters (38760)' (121 32 Document entqbd'Caracter• 156 (13) isations Dans Les Cigarettes De Materteb Autres Que (141 Le Tabac' 33 Document entMled'Advarx:es 156 (t6) In Modem Toxicology, V. 1, (t6) Pan t, New Concepts in Safe V Evaluatbn' (171 34 Document entilled'Abstracts 156 (1a1 of Papers for the Seventeenth Annual Meetinp of the Society I(t91 of Toxlcobqy, San Francisco, Calllornia. March 12•16, 1978' I (20) 35 Document entBled 'Chemical 156 I(21) Carcinogenesis in Syrian Hamsters: A Review (through I 1976)' 36 Document ent111ed'Cigarette 156 ,(2a) Smoke Inhalation Studies In (z41 Inbred Syrian Golden Hamsters' I O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 Min-U-Scripft (5) Page 5- Page 6 CT Rr I N 0 422 ' 19-

Freddy Somburger, M.D. May 28, 1997 IYo_>na h& ri:oin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et a1 (tj Page 7 DEFENDANTS'EXHIBfTS Fxhblt Pafl. (11 PROCEEDINGS Page 8 (zl MR. HANRAHAN: My name is David m 37 Document entMled'Ciperetle 156 pl Hatuahan. I represent All Star Video.The address (3) Smoke-InduCed Cancer of the (41 of the company is 55 Park Avenue West, South Larynx tn Hamsters (CINCH): th csl Weymouth, Massachusetts 02190.The phone number of (sl the company is 617-331-8881. (<) (sl e A Method to Assay Carciragenicity of Cigarette Smoke' M It is May 28, approximately 11:10. (al We are here at the offices of Goodwin, Procter & Hoar (e) 38 Document entitled 9n Vivo 156 (el at 53 State Street in Boston for the deposition of Carcktoqenesis Testkg' (10l Dr. Homburger in the matter of Norma R. Broin, et m 39 Document entltled'Carebro- 158 (t,l al., Plaintiffs, versus Philip Morris Companies, (1z1 Inc., et al., Defendants. lal genesis In the Upper A di N T ' (131 The case is currently pending in the (e1 ero geet ract e (14) Circuit Court of the 11th Judicial Circuit in and for hsl Dade County, Florida, General Jtr'isdiction Division, 1101 40 Document eMtlled'Sutr 156 chronb Cigarette Smoke (+s) case number 9149738 CA22. Inhalation Stuies in tntxed Th i G ld H t t S (171 If we can have the attorneys present (,el please introduce themselves. (11) (12) yr en ams ers a an o Develop Laryngeal Carckama Upon Chronic Exposure' (1tn MS. SCHNEIDER: Mary Margaret (20l Schneider from Stanley Rosenblatt, P.A., for the (131 41 Document entAled'A New 156 (z11 plaintiffs. (1y Ffrst•Generatbn Hybrid Syrian Hamster, BIO F 1 D (4 MR. RANDLES: Billy Randles from (231 Shook, Hardy & Bacon for Philip Morris and Lorilard 1s Alexander for in vNo Carci en is Bl w ss a (24) Tobacco Companies. ( l (ie) r q es oa y, s a TNird Species or to Replace the Mouse' (t71 42 Letter dated 6/1fi/74 to 183 (ts1 43 Homburper from Bauer Letter dated 2/13!!4 to 212 (191 Homburyer from Gardner (20l 44 Undated ktter to Gardner 212 Page 9 from Homburger ~ (,l MR. KLUGMAN: Steve Klugman from (21) M 1231 r2l Debevoise & Plimpton, counsel forThe Council for (3( Tobacco Rescarch-U.SA., Inc. R4l ~ (41 MR. ALDEN: David Alden for defendant (s) RJ. Reynolds Tobacco Company. ~ (6) MR. NORTHRIP: : Robert Northrip m from Shook, Hardy & Bacon for Philip Morris and ~ (e( Lorilard. (91 MR. JOHNSON: PeterJohnson, (10l Debevoisc & Plimpton, forThe Council forTobacco (t,l Research-U.S.A., Inc. (121 FREDDY HOMBURGER, M.D. I(t31 ~(141 having first been duly sworn, was il+s] exarttincd and testifies as follows: i(tsl '(,7) DIRECT EXAMINATION Il+el BY MS. SCHNEIDER: i(,9t 0: Doctor, please state your name. t(2o1 A: My name is Freddy,FREDDY, IR11 Homburgcr.HOMBURGER. i(zz1 O: Where were you born, doctor? ;P( A: I was born in Sankt Gallen, itz41 Switzerland, on Fcbruary 8, 1916. ( Page 7 - Page 9 (6) Min-U-Scripft O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 GTR IMIN 042" 120

Norma R. Broin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al (,( 0: Where did you attend medical school? (zl A: I went to medical school in Geneva. (3( Switzerland, and for one year in Vienna,Austria. (al 0: When did you come to the United States (sl from Switzerland? (s( A: I came to the United States on June 23, M 1941. (sl Q: Take us through your training and your (sl career in the United States. (,o( A: At the beginning, I came for a one-year („1 fellowship in pathology at Yale.And I stayed for two I(+1 A: I still am a senior scientist at the ; t2l Mallory Institute of Pathology at Boston City Hospital ((31 and a research professor in the department of I(al pathology of Boston University School of Medicine. ! tel 0: Tell us when it was that you became ;(sl interested in the study of cancer and particularly ! m causes of cancer. I(sl A: Well, at the time when I obtained a 1(91 position at the Sloan-Kettering Institute and Memorial i(,ol Hospital, it was very hard for physicians to find („( positions, because it was the end of the war and i(,z( everybody returned. (,31 So. it wasn't really by choice and ~(,a( first preference, but the opportunity was offered me (+sl to have a job at Memorial Hospital and Sloan-Kettering 1(1s1 Institute and Cornell. and so I took it. I(+n And I was fascinated from the very I(+el start not only by the problem, which is still with us. (,el but also by the extremely advanced technology that was (sol then already available in this highly specialized (z,l situation. (zz( 0: How did it come about that you started p1 doing work which was fundedbyThe CouncilforTobacco I(2,1 Research? Page 10 Page 12 t+21 years and subsequently was struck after Pearl Harbor [,31 for another five years, during which I spent two years (,.) at the Thorndike Laboratory of Harvard University (,sl Medical School in internal medicine and three ycars at (,s( the Memorial Hospital and Sloan-Kettering Institute in (,n New York in cancer research and at Cornell at the same (,el time as an instructor. (,a1 I then went to Tufts University in (zo( Boston to start a cancer research and cancer control (z,l unit in its medical school in 1948, I believe it was (22( by then.And ten years later I left Tufts to found my (231 own organization, Bio-Research Institute and [2a1 Bio-Research Consultants in Cambridge. Massachusetts. Page 11 , And I became, a few years later, a research professor in pathology at Boston University School of Medicine, which I am still to this day. I am board qualified in pathology and internal medicine.And I am board certified in toxicology; and that was, I believe, in 1982. 0: While at Tufts, what kind of work did you do? A: At Tufts I started a cancer research unit which consisted of one basic research laboratory where animal research was done at the Tufts Medical Center and two affiliated chronic disease hospitals - one in Cambridge, one in Roxbury - where we had access to advanced cancer patients and experimented with the early phases of chemotherapy. 0: What kind of work have you done at Boston University? A: At Boston University I was mostly involved in pathology, in teaching.And, of course, all my work at the Bio-Research Institute and Bio-Research Consultants was done while I had an appointment at Boston University. 0: And you still currently have an appointment with Boston University? Freddy Hombnrger, M.D. May 28, 1997 Page 13 I(,1 A: That is a long story which begins with (zi my friendship with Dr. C.C. Little, who became the ~(31 director of The Council forTobacco Research after his ~(.1 retirement from the Jackson Laboratory in Bar Harbor. ~ (sl Maine. j(s( I needed an advisory council at the m Tufts University situation because this was new and I(el very - what is the word - very difficult to Im integrate in the existing system of the university. ((,o( So. I thought of Dr. Little, who was [„1 then very renowned as a geneticist.And he was very 1(,zl happy to serve as an advisor to our unit. 1(+3) And then he suggested that some of our (ul personnel spend a month or two each summer at the I(,sl Jackson Laboratory in their summer progtam, and this I(,sl we did. He asked me in 1948, a year after the big I(+r1 fire in Bar Harbor, to give a talk at his institution. (,e) And both my wife and I were fascinated I(+9( with Maine, bought some land, built a house there in `(2o) 1952, and spent every summer working with the Jackson Ir,, ,1 Laboratory as long as Little was in charge. i(rr( That is why, when he became the i p3l director of research forThe Council of Tobacco ir,1.1 Research. he chose our organization as one of the O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 Min-U-Script® (7) Page 10 - Page 13 L..l' l a' l 1 NI 1 0/' f 1221

Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28,1997 Page 14 pl first ones that they supported. m Gi: What was the Jackson Laboratory? Tell Pi me a little bit about that. tsl A: The Jackson Laboratory was then a * pioneering laboratory in research on genetics of mice tq and also beagle dogs.And Little was probably the m world authority on mouse gcnetics.And cancer pn research was one of the interests because some of m their strains developed tumots and others did not. (ioj And I became very much interested in genetics of t+I) experimental laboratory animals by this contact. 1121 Gl: I take it when you first began doing hal work funded byThe Council forTobacco Research you pui had a lot of respect for Dr. Little. hsl A: I did. (1si Gl: Did that ever change? iu) A: Well, it changed as he changed in his (,sl attitude toward the job he obtained fromThe Council hg forTobacco Research. pq And when I argued with him that he tzq should insist on having the council put aside a fund tzzi in escrow for his salary so he could be free to do pi whatever he felt was the right thing to do, he said (z41 that he liked the position: that he didn't want to i.un..:. x.- t. uin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al f Page 16 ~ t+l clear for the record, but also make it clear that I m that's our objection. So, if you want to proceed pi differently, you have an opportunity, in fairness, to 141 do that. M BY MS. SCHNEIDER: le) Q: Doctor, I take it from what you said - I m MR. RANDLES: I'm sorry to interrupt ~ ro] you. I would just like to clarify your agreement that jm an objection from one of us applies to all, so we all im don't have to chime in. MS. SCHNEIDER: That's fine. lt~~ BY MS. SCHNEIDER: j h31 0: Doctor, I take it from what you have 11141 said that you lost the respect that you had for 11,sl Dr. Little as an individual. (161 MR. KLUGMAN: Objection, leading. i+71 BY MS. SCHNEIDER: (181 G: Is that correct? hsi MR. KLUGMAN: Objection, leading. r2q BY MS. SCHNEIDER: (211 G: You can answer the question. ~txM A: No, I wouldn't say that. I made it I [n1 quite specific that I lost my respect for his judgment jr24i in scientific matters, not as a human being. I i I j Page t 5 I Page 17 i+i risk to lose it; and that he could do what he pleased ! i+1 MR. KLUGMAN: Objection and move to m because, and I quote, "My sarcophagus is built." ~ m strike that as nonresponsive and also as inadmissible t31 And from then on, I gradually realized (41 that he was not only a great man but also lsl apolitantistic.And my attitude didn't change as far (s) as he as a friend and human being was concerned, but I m didn't trust his judgment in scientific matters jai anymore. lsi MR. KLUGMAN: I'm going to object and (+oq move to strike that. It was nonresponsive. It was t+Il also portions of Dr. Homburgcr's testimony were i+zi clearly inadmissible, included hearsay, speculation. (131 There was no foundation laid for large parts of this. t+.1 This is, as I understand it, a t+sl deposition taken for purposes of trial. Certainly (,s) preserve all our objections to all of that question 1171 and answer. (+e1 1 suppose, beyond if there was a"yes" l+si in there, in that question about whether his attitude reoi changed, if he said "ycs," well, I guess I would tz+i object to the entire thing because I'm not sure it can rzz) be split up into little pieces. Mi But I think that that's inadmissible n41 testimony as it's been offered and wanted to make that I t3i based on the lack of foundation for the matters that j 14) underlie the answer as testified before by I [sl Dr. Homburgcr. j (si BY MS. SCHNEIDER: i m 0: Would it be a fair or accurate 191 statement that it was your opinion that Dr. Little had IM succumbed to the needs for money at the cost of honest ~pwt science? Iliq MR. KLUGMAN: Objection, leading. 1i+2I Who's testifying here, Ms. Schneider? I thought this 11131 was Dr. Homburger's deposition. j(,q BY MS. SCHNEIDER: jps) 0: When did you first begin doing research iisi which was funded byThe Council forTobacco Research? '1171 MR. KLUGMAN: Excuse me. Was there an 111el answer to that question? I didn't hear whether the 11+91 witness answered. I tzoI MS. SCHNEIDER: I'm not here to give ;rzq testimony. irm MR. KLUGMAN: Could I have the reporter p3l read back the last question and answer? 112.1 (Reporter indicates no answer was Page 14 - Page 17 (8) Min-U-ScriptW O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 i,r ~~ f~'~ f~ f f'°f ~,. e'"!' r.!} .f 2.'_1

Norma R Broin, et al v. Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al Freddy Homburger, M.D. May 28, 1997 Page 18 Page 20 I,l recorded on the record) m BY MS. SCHNEIDER: I V] `C-0 developing a system if we could produce cancer or precancerous conditions in the respiratory tract of (31 Q: My question, doctor, is when did you I t3) these animals, which in the course of years we did. (•1 begin doing research funded by The Council forTobacco (sl Research? (sl A: That was at the time when Dr. Little (n retired and became director of The Council for Tobacco (sl Research and was probably 1956 or so. (sl 0: So, sometime in the 1950s? (1ol A: Sometime in the late 1940s or early t++l '50s. (121 0: Would you tell the jury a little bit (13) about the work that you began doing which was funded (sl (e) m (el I hl j, (, ol jnn Ir~l In31 0: What kind of cancers did the hamsters develop? A: In the susceptible strain, about half of them developed carcinomas or precancerous lesions of the larynx. the upper respiratory traa, and some changes in the lungs, which indicated that smoke did reach the lungs, but to a much lesser degree than at the other alius of the respiratory tract. Q: What is the larynx? A: The larynx is the proximal end of the (141 byThe Council forTobacco Research? j(14) wind pipe where the voice is formed. (1sl A: Well, the basic idea was to find a (1sl disease model in an experimental animal that could be (,7l tested for smoke inhalation. I(isl i(1sl j (+71 Q: What was the significance, in the hatnstcrs, of some smoke reaching the lungs with respect to the animal model that you were trying to (,sl In the first instance, we started out 1(1el develop? (,sl with mouse skin paintings, which was at the time the (~91 MR. KLUGMAN: Objection to the form. (201 only method to get cancer induced with tars from 1201 A: I didn't hear. tz,l cigarettes in mice that Lindel did in 1953. 1211 Q: He just objected to the form.You can (22) And then we began to develop a smoking (2al machine with the intent of being able to expose 1241 animals to smoke in a way which approached that to ~ (-m jf23l I (241 go ahead and answer the question, doctor. A: WeU, if the smoke had not reached the lungs. there would have been no histological change to Page 19 which - in which smokers are exposed to smoke. And all that started at about the same time and was carried on for many years before the smoking machine was eventually developed to the extent that we thought it was useful in 1969. Q: What kind of research or describe for the jury the research that you did with the smoking machine. A: And then we tried to see what happened when mice and rats were exposed to smokc.And we found very quickly that both species were very susceptible to the toxicity of the smoke and died in relatively a short period of time before it would have been possible to develop cancer. Then, by accident, we got approached by Dr. Whitney. Ray Whitney. who was interested in developing inbred strains of Syrian hamsters.Md she became associated with our institution. So, we exposed Syrian hamsters to the smoke.And we found very quickly that Syrian hamster was much more resistant to smoke toxicity and could tolerate and even seemed to like large doses of smoke inhaled. So. there was an opportunity of O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 i Page 21 ~(il be seen.And in aU animals that smoked, there were ;m some infiltrations with mononuclear cells in the lungs (sl which showed a mild inflammation and was proof that (.1 some of the smoke did reach the lungs. 1(sl 0: How did the hamster as an animal model j(sl with respect to the smoking and lungs compare with the ~ m human model or human beings? (el A: Well. I wouldn't like to comment on M that. 1101 Q: Did the hamsters have any differences j(„1 with their respiratory system which you noted with I (,zl respect to when you compared hamster respiratory 1(+31 systems to human's respiratory systems? 1(1a1 MR. KLUGMAN: Object to the form. 1(isl A: Oh. yes.The hamster has a very tiny 1(+sl respiratory system being a small animal and humans jl,71 have a rather wide approach to the lungs through the (+el bronchi. (+vl So, the hamster would never get the (201 same relative amount of smoke into its lower p,l respiratory tract that could be expected to enter the j(zxl human lung. i(231 0: Did there come a time when you reported i(2.1 the results of your finding that you were able to i I Min-U-Scripte (9) Page 18 - Page 21 C. T R N N 0 4 22 12 74

Freddy Hombnrger, M.D. Norma R. rirvi::, . c. , v. May 28, 1997 Philip Morris Companies, Inc., et al I Page 22 Page 24 n1 produce cancer of the larynx of hamsters who were (,l MR. KLUGMAN: Excuse me, Dr. Homburger. M smoking to the tobacco industry? ~ MS. SCHNEIDER: Doctor, let him say his M A: Yes. pi objections and, once he's finished his objection, you t•l MR. KLUGMAN: Objection, leading. (4l can say your answer. Otherwise, the video will not R BY MS. SCHNEIDER: (s) come through. Let him say what he wants, and then you M Q: Tell me about that as far as what le) can answer the question. m happened. m MR. KLUGMAN: You have the important tel A: It was - pq MR. KLUGMAN: Before that, I would like (,o) to object. Based on listening to Dr. Homburger's t++l testimony yesterday, I have a reasonable belief that l+2l his response to this question will include a (+31 combination of the matters as to which it's proper py form to testify, as to which he is competent to l,s) testify and some speculation, some hearsay, some t+al things that he's not competent to testify to in an (,7l ei+identiary sense. (+al I would suggest, Ms. Schneider, so that py we have a transcript that can be used at trial that Ral you take it in smaller bites and ask him more specific R+1 questions, and we can object and preserve the record. cal Otherwise, I think we're going to have W a long narrative answer here, parts of which will be Cul inadtnissible.I guess we'll have to take the Page 23 1+1 position. if that comes to pass, that the whole answer m is inadmissible. I think we would have something more p) useful if you would ask more specific questions. Nl BY MS. SCHNEIDER: (s) Q: Doctor, my question is, I would like (s( for you to tell the court and the jury what happened m when you attempted to publish the results of the study ro) where you found cancer of the larynx in hamsters who m had been exposed to smoke. (+o) MR. KLUGMAN: Objection to the form. (+,) A: Well, we wrote the paper, and we sent (,z( the paper, for their approval, to The Council for (f3t Tobacco Research and its then research director, (+4) Robert Hockett. hs) Q: What happened once you sent the paper (,el to Mr. Hockett? (+n A: They objected to certain terms which we nel used in that paper. ;+s( Q: What did they object to and how was rpl that communicated to you? n+) MR. KLUGMAN: Objection to the form. I = wish you would ask him one question at a time, have a r2q lot clearer record. 1241 THE WITNESS: They took the position - Pa:ge 22 - Page 25 (10) Page 25 A: There was a letter from Mr. Hoyt, who was then the director of The Council forTobacco Research, pointing out that we had not fulfilled our end of the contract which gave the tobacco council control of our data and equipment and know-how. Q: And what happened after that? A: After I responded to that letter, Mr. Hoyt suggested that Robert Hockett and a lawyer by the name of Ed Jacob should visit me and discuss this further. Q: Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. Hockett and Mr.Jacob? A: They came to my summer place in Maine in July orAugust of 1973 to discuss this matter. Q: What happened when they came to see you in May? A: They told me - MR. KLUGMAN: Objection to the form. Again, I think we're going to have the same problem because you're asking Dr. Hombutger to supply a narrative, which I think is going to create some evidentiary problems. And I would ask that you ask him more specific questions rather than call for a narrative Min•U-Script® , O'Brien & Levine (617)-254-2909 I (e) stuff, but I get to say mine fust, then you get to 19) say whatever it is you want to testify to.Just the l+o) way it works, I've got to get mine in first. I+,l THE WITNESS: I'll shut up. l(+x( MR. KLUGMAN: No, not at all, just I 1131 pause for a second, if you would. I would appreciate (,4) that. Do we have a question pending? 1(+s) MS. SCHNEIDER: You were talking.Why jt+et don't you read back the last question? !(,n (Whereupon,the record was read by the (+el reporter as follows:What did they object to and how (+sl was that communicated to you?) 120) MR. KLUGMAN: Objection to the form. t2,) And again I wish you would ask him one question at a n time so we can have a clear record and one as to which ~r4I the evidcntiary problems can be dealt with at a later i1241 time for purposes of trial. CTR 11N 042, 1 ' 4'