Tobacco Documents Online

:20 • '$ 1 '! . 6 0 173 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY 2 CIVIL ACTION NO. 83-2864 SA 3 4 ANTONIO CIPOLLONE, individually : and as Executor of the Estate of 5 ROSE D. CIPPOLLONE, . (Continued) 6 Plaintiff, : Deposition of: 7 vs. . SHELDON C. SOMMERS 8 LIGGETT GROUP, INC., a . Delaware corporation; PHILIP 9 MORRIS INCORPORATED, a Virginia . corporation; LOEW'S THEATRES, 10 INC., a New York corporation, . 11 Defendants. . 12 13 TRANSCRIPT of testimon y as taken by and 14 before MARGARET J. TEILHABER , a Certified 15 Shorthand Reporter and Notar y Public of the State 16 of New Jersey, at the office s of DEBEVOISE & 17 PLIMPTON, 875 Third Avenue, New York, New York, on 18 Friday, October 3, 1986. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 405 NortMiNd Awnu. waga and spinelli VH.st Okany., N. J. 07052 . certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 014991

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 174 A P P E A R A N C E S: BUDD, LARNER, GROSS, PICIL LO, ROSENBAUM, GREENBERG & SADE 150 John F. Kennedy Parkwa y Short Hills, New Jersey 0 7078 BY: MARC Z. EDELL, ESQ. For the Plaintiff WEBSTER & SHEFFIELD 1 Rockefelle r Plaza New York, Ne w York 10020 BY: ROBERT OGDEN COHEN, E SQ. For Liggett Group, Inc. 161 SHOOK, HARDY & BACON 17! 20th Floor i 18~ Mercantile Bank Tower 19 1101 Walnut 20 Kansas City, Missouri 64106 21 BY: ROBERT E. NORTHRIP, ESQ., 22 WILLIAM W. SHINN, ESQ., 231 STEVEN C. PARRISH, ESQ. 24I For Philip Morris, Inc. 25 waga and spinelU 406 NoathffNd Awnw wat or.n9., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 CT - IHIN 014992-

0 175 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: (Continued) 2 3 BROWN, CONNERY, KULP, WILLE, 4 PURNELL & GREENE 5 Parkade Building 6 518 Market Street 7 P.O. Box 1449 18 Camden, New Jersey 08101 9 BY: RAYMOND F. DROZDOWSKI, ESQ. 10 For Philip Morris, Inc. 11 12 ARNOLD & PORTER 13 1200 New Hampshire Avenue, N.W. 14 Washington, D.C. 20036 15 BY: HADRIAN R. KATZ, ESQ. 16 For Philip Morris, Inc. 17 18 SILLS, BECK, CUMMIS, ZUCKERMAN, 19 RADIN & TISCHMAN, P.A. 20 33 Washington Street 21 Newark, New Jersey 07102-3179 22 BY: JOEL C. BALSAM, ESQ. 23 For Loews Theatres, Inc. 24 25 waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northlf.Id Awnu. W.at Orany., N. J. 07052 201•731-9666 CT ~ HN 0149931

176 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: (Continued) 2 3 DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON 4 875 Third Avenue 5 New York, New York 10022 6 BY: ANDREW C. HARTZELL, JR., ESQ., 7 JOHN G. KOELTL, ESQ., 8 EDWARD M. ROTZ, ESQ. 9 Fpr Witness and CTR 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NathNNd Awnu. Wat Oran9., N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 014994

177 1 I_N_D_E_X 21 WITNESS ~ 31 SHELDON C. SOMMERS, M.D. DIRECT 4i Mr. Edell 180 5 6 7 10 11 12 E X H I B I T S 13 ~. ' NUMBER DESCRIPTION IDENTIFICATION 14 15 (The following are Sommers 1.) all Sommers exhibits; e.g. 16 I 17j 4D Letter, 2-25-81 207 1 18 i 19 4E Em ployment agreement effective 207 20 9-1-81 21 22 16 2-page handwritten letter, 255 23; 2-20-71, and cover letter 1.:4. 24 25 17 Letter, 2-23-71 255 !v waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NonhfiNd Awnu. VWst Oran~ N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 01499'Ej

405 NoathtiNd Awnue W.st Or.nye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 l""'S 1 2 3 4 5 6 ; 7 18 9 10 11 12 .a 13 14 15 16 17 . 18 19 20 3 21 22 23 ,-;.=`N 24 25 178 E X H I B I T S NUMBER (Continued) DESCRIPTION IDENTIFICATION ------ 18 Letter, ---------- 2-24-71 255 19 Letter, 3-25-71, and attachment 255 20 2-page memo, 12-7-70 261 21 3-page memo, 12-4-70 261 22 2-page memo, 12-30-70 265 23 3-page memo, 12-29-71 266 24 2-page handwritten document 266 a entitled Re: Auerbach-Hammond 25 3-page memo, 12-30-71 267 26 Memo, 4-14-71 271 27 Letter, 6-5-70, and attachment 277 28 Letter, 8-29-68 279 waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR MN 014996

0 179 1 E X H I B I T S --------------- 2 (Continued) 3 NUMBER DESCRIPTION IDENTIFICATION 4 29 Letter, 9-28-70 285 5 6 30 Memo, 10-2-70, and 290 7 3-page attachment ,8 9 31 10-page document entitled 292 10 Joint Committee on Tobacco 11 and Health 12 ,~ 13 32 11-page document entitled 301 14 Tobabbo and Health Research, 15 Some Proposed Stud ies 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 405 Nonhfi.ld Awnu. waga and spinelli W.st Onny., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9888 CTR HN 0 14997

180 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 `8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 S H E L D 0 N C. S 0 M M E R S, previously sworn. CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EDELL: Q. Dr. Sommers, you realize you are still under oath? A. Yes. Q. Did you discuss yesterday's deposition with your attorney or anyone else? A. No. Q. Did you review any materials last evening? A . No.. Q. Or yesterday afternoon? A. No. Q. What are the responsibilities of the research director of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. The research director has a duty to respond to inquiries by letter or telephone from i individuals either who ask about submitting an informil or formal application for grant funding, potential grantees whose applications have not been acted on for one of various reasons, grantees who have budgetary needs such as additional funds because waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMi.W Awnu. Wat Orany. N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN 01499B

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 X, a7 25 Sommers - direct 181 of university policy, et cetera, to talk with any grantee who has any kind of a problem with carrying on the research and to respond to inquiries from potential grantees whose applications have not been funded. In addition, the research director, being a member of the scientific staff, like all the rest of the staff makes site visits to individual grantees, attends meetings of the Scientific Advisory Board and assists as scientific director. Q. ~ Have those been the responsibilities of the research director since you've been associated with the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Yes. Q. What are the responsibilities of the scientific director? A. The scientific director is to be responsive to the decisions of the Scientific Advisory Board with regard to disapproval or approval of formal applications. It is the responsibility of the scientific director to try to find investigators in new fields or fields where it is felt that more research money might be expended. It is the responsibility of the scientific director to confer with and inform the chairman of the waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NatMiNd Awnu. W.st O..nps, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR MN 014999

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 % 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct Scientific Advisory Board about any problems with board members being unable because of other commitments to attend some or all days of the grant funding meetings and to report also to the president and chairman in general how the program is going. I believe that would summarize the responsibilities. Q. Were those the responsibilities of the scientific director of the Council for Tobacco Research since you've been associated with it? A. That's my understanding. Q. You indicated that one of the responsibilities of the scientific director of the Council for Tobacco Research is to find investigators who would submit grant applications. Correct? A. No. Who might be interested. Q. Who might be interested in submitting grant applications? A. Correct. Q. How does the scientific director go about finding investigators who might be interested in submitting grant applications to the Council for Tobacco Research? A. As part of my general activities, not just waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NatMiNd Awnu. Wat Oranye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 CTR- HN DIE3000

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7~ I 8~ i I 91 10 11 12 13 14 Sommers - direct 183 scientific director, I try to keep up with the medical literature, and when a new field or line of inquiry becomes evident, either from reading abstracts or published articles or when I attend a pathology or other medical convention or take a post-graduate course or learn through colleagues of some bright investigator, then I might, it would seem appropriate, either write a letter or perhaps telephone to inquire if the individual might be interested. Q. Who was your predecessor as scientific director? A. Dr. William Gardner. Q. Was it Dr. Gardner's responsibility 15 to also look for investigators who might be 16. interested in submitting grant applications to the ~ 171 Council for Tobacco Research? 18 19 20 21 A. With the aid of the scientific staff, yes. Q. Dr. Gardner's predecessor was who, sir? A. Well, it was Dr. C. C. Little. 221 Q. Was it also Dr. Little's i 23 24 responsibility as scientific director to seek out investigators who might be interested in 25j submitting grant applications to the Council for 405 Nathii.W Awnus waga and spinelii W.st Oranp., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9666 L. ! R t E N O.E E3001

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct . 184 Tobacco Research? A. I don't remember that. Q. How is it that you submitted your first grant application to the Council for Tobacco Research? A. As best memory serves, approximately in 1965 or '66 when I was at Delafield Hospital and Dr. Jacob Furth was the director of the laboratories. He or the department chairman advised me of an Israeli physician, pathologist, who they had highly recommended, to come for one year's research and study in the United States and my memory is that it was chiefly to provide for his stipend and for a project that he and I would carry out for that one year that ttie application was made. Q. You submitted the grant application to the Council for Tobacco Research. Is that correct? A. I was a principal investigator. Q. It wasn't a situation where the scientific director of the Council for Tobacco Research came to you and said would you submit a gra*nt application. Is that correct? A. No one from the Council for Tobacco Research waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NathiiNd Awnw Wat orwy., N. J. 07052 201•731-9666 CTR HN 0 1 EDOO'

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 185 suggested such a submission. Q. Did someone from the Council for Tobacco Research suggest such a submission to Dr. Furth? A . No . Q. Do you know whether or not there was anyone outside of the Council for Tobacco Research whose responsibility it was in whole or in part to seek out investigators who might be interested in submitting grant applications to the Council for Tobacco Research? A. No. Q. What were the responsibilities of the chairman of the Scientific Advisory Board of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. The responsibilities are to preside at the meetings of the Scientific Advisory Board, to call for the discussion of individual applications, to himself write critiques on the applications that he is assigned to the subcommittee, to call for the vote, to decide in situations less than unanimous vote which carries, and generally to decide when the meetings will start, when they will have coffee or lunch breaks and when the meetings will be adjourned. waga and spinelli certifled shorthand reporters 405 NorthiNld Av.nu• Wat Or.nye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 C! R 1 ! I `t 01E3003

f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 16 17; A. Not that I know of. 18 19 20 21 22 23; Q. Did you have any contact with Leonard 24 25 Sommers - direct 186 Q. In order for a grant application to be accepted or passed by the Scientific Advisory Board, does there have to be an unanimous decision of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. No. Q. What percentage of the Scientific Advisory Board has to vote in favor of a particular grant application? A. Majority. Q. Does the research director of the Council f,or Tobacco Research have any responsibilities in the area of public relations? A. Not that I know of. Q. Does the scientific director of the Council"for Tobacco Research have any responsibilities in the area of public relations? Q. While you were research director -- I believe it was between April of '69, was it, and June of ' 72? A. I'm not sure of the months but it was in parts of the years '69 through '72. Zahn? A. I think inevitably I must have received waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathfidd Awnu• VWst Oranpe, N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 , CTR- HN 015004

O 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 $ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 187 memoranda from him. Q. Did you prepare any articles at his behest? A. I believe so. Q. What article did you prepare? A. The time frame is 1969 to '72, certain months, and there was a point towards the end of that period when certain correspondence and letters to the editor were thought to require a response from me and so I prepared a response which was never published to my knowledge. Q. Letters to the editor of what? A. Washington Star. Q. In regard to what subject matter? A. Claims that I had somehow failed to respond to an offer to review some microscopic slides. Q. Other than your contact with Leonard Zahn at which time he requested that you prepare these letters to the editor -- am I wrong he didn't ask you to prepare the letter? A. No. It was suggested that the letter included such information that a response to the same editor would be necessary or desirable and I did prepare such a letter which was never published. waga and spinelli 405 Northff.ld Awnu. VWst Oran a, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-73,-s$88 i CTR HN 0 1 500E:5

1 t 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct Q. Just so I understand, Mr. Zahn suggested to you that you prepare a letter to the editor of the Washington Star? A. Yes. Q• Auerbach's In regard to the subject of Dr. smoking dogs study. Is that correct? A. Microscopic slides thereof, yes. Q. You prepared such a letter. Correct? A. Yes. Q. But it was never sent? A. Yes, it was sent but never published. Q. Did you actually prepare the letter yourself? A. Yes. Q. Other than that letter to the editor, did you ever prepare any other materials at the request of Leonard Zahn for publication? MR. HARTZELL: What period? You mean this research director period? MR. EDELL: That's correct. A. You see, it's a long time ago and I just don't clearly remember whether I did or did not do so during that particular time period. Q. Let's make it easy for you. Do you remember prepa-ring any publication at the request ;~ waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NoatMiNd Av.nu. West Orenys, N. J. 07052 201-731-9E88 1 CTP 1iN 01E500G

Sommers - direct 189 . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 as you feel is necessary in order to respond to a i of Leonard Zahn during the entire period you were involved with the Council for Tobacco Research up to the point in time you became scientific director? A. Yes. Give me time to think because it's quite a long time period. Q. You can take, just so you understand, I thought I made it clear, you take as much time question. okay, sir? MR. HARTZELL: Mr. Edell, if you have something, why don't you show it to him. It's really silly •to ask him something and to pop some document out. If you have some document, why don't you just show it to him. You are not i ~ I testing his memory here. It's just a waste of i time. Go ahead. If he wants to proceed that way for a while, I guess, but it's a really non-productive I way of proceeding. Whether it's your standard way I or not, it is not productive in this case. You can answer. A. I can't remember. Q. You cannot remember participating in the publication of any particular document at the request of Mr. Zahn. Is that correct? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NoathiNld Avenue VWtt oranpe, N. J. 07052 201•731•9655 [~ ! ~ ~ !t'' t..~ .! ~=t~f0•t`!

1 \ 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 190 A. That was not the question. Q. Do you recall preparing any document for publication at the request of Mr. Zahn? A. I don't remember. Q. What contact did you have with Edward Jacob? A. Mr. Jacob -- MR. HARTZELL: Excuse me. Are we again at what period of time? MR. EDELL: '66 through '82. MR. HARTZELL: To '82? MR. EDELL: To '82. A. Mr. Jacob was for most of that time counsel for the Council for Tobacco Research. Q. What contact did you have during that same time period with David Hardy? A. Mr. Hardy at one time asked me to be an expert witness in a case of a suit against a tobacco company. As a consequence of that case, which was appealed, I believe, he asked me for certain follow-up information on research if and when it became available. Q. What association did Mr. Hardy have with the Council for Tobacco Research? A. I don't believe he had any association. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMW Awnu. 1M.st Or.n9., N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CT R 11"IN 0 15008

r 0 Sommers - direct 191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 b 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. What case did he ask you to become an expert witness in? A. The cases being known by the last name of the complainant, the case called the Weaver case. Q. When did that case occur? A. In 1970. Q. Did you prepare a report in that case? A. No. Q. Did you give a deposition in that case? A . No ., I Q. Did you give trial testimony in that I ~ case? A. Yes. ~ I Q. Where did that trial occur? I A. Warsaw, Missouri. I Q. What kind of case was it? A. It was a case in which the estate on behalf of the children of the deceased complainant claimed disease and death from the use of cigarettes. Q. What disease entity were you discussing in that case? A. They claimed lung carcinoma. Q. Did the case involve a lung carcinoma, waga and spinelli certified shortband reporters 405 NorthfiNd Avenue West Orenye, N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CTR MIN 015009

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Sommers - direct 192 sir? A. No one could be certain. Q. Did you have an opinion in that case? A. Yes. Q. What was your opinion in that case? A. In regard to what? Q. Lung carcinoma, whether it was or was `8! not a lung carcinoma. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. The biopsy material was so scanty and so poorly prepared and stained that it was impossible to be certain of what it represented, but my opinion was that it most likely appeared to be a malignant lymphoma. Q. Did Mr. Hardy ever ask you to participate as an expert in any other case? A. No. 17! Q. Did any representative of the firm of 18 19 20 21 22 Shook, Hardy & Bacon ask you to participate as an expert in any other case? MR. NORTHRIP: Are you excluding this case? Q. Up to ' 82. 23i MR. EDELL: I can't ask him about 241, that, right, Mr. Northrip? 25 (Discussion off the record.) waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Noathii.id Awnw W.at O(an9a, N. J. 07052 201-731•9888 CT ~ HN 0 150 10

0 Sommers - direct 193 1 MR. EDELL: Let the reco rd re flect i 2 ty. some lev 3 THE WITNESS: Not on my pa rt. 4 A. I think at some tim e in the per iod r eferr ed 5 to that some member or members of that firm asked 6 me to look at some microscopic slides. 7 Q. In regard to a lawsuit, si r? 18 A. I believe so. 9 Q. Wha t lawsuit was that? 10 A. I don't remember and I'm not c ert ai n I ha ve 11 been told. 12 Q. Do you recall looking a t t he slide s? 13 Y A es. . 14 Q. Do you recall when that occurred? 15 A. No. I say sometime 'in the int erv al that we 16 are talking about. 17 Q. You don't know whether it' s sometime 18 in the sixties or the seventies or t he eighties. 19 Is that correct? 20 A. It would be in the latter two dec ades. 21 Q. Do you recall what your op inion was 22 with regard to the review of those slides? 23 A. There may have been more than one case. 24 Q. Why don't you tell me a bou t all the 25 cases that you can recall. 405 NoathtiNld Av.nu• waga and spinelli Wat Onnye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 certified shorthand reporters C! R ! i 1 't 4.,0 IE3011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ,8 9 10 11 12 17I remember and there may have been two examinations 18; of the same sort of material, my memory is that I 19 could not identify tumor cells then. I believe I 20 have looked at specimens of bronchus or lung with 21 respect to whether there was or was not cancer 22 Sommers - direct 194 MR. HARTZELL: He said he didn't know whether they were cases or not, jus t slides. MR. EDELL: I don't th ink that was his t ti es mony. A. My expertise as a pathologist includes examination of microscopic slides a nd my method is without any other information to lo ok at the slides first and I do that in all c ases with the exception of when it's a Lenox Hill Hospital case, and the reason I do that is not to be influenced by something that I have been told, read or already know - . Now, you asked me abou t what is to me an uncertain number of cases and I believe I have looked at what are called PAP smear s of bronchial secretions for tumor cells and the times that I present and since I can't remember from thousands 231 of cases I looked at just what those-showed, I 24 can't testify as to those diagnoses. 25i Q. When you say thousands of cases, you waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NowthfNld Awnu. VWst Onn9e, N. J. 07052 201•731-9888 CTR F lN 015012

r, 0 Sommers - direct 195 are not talking about thousands of legal cases, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9; A. I explained my belief after examining the right? A. Oh, heavens, no. Q. Did you render reports to a representa.tive of the Shook, Hardy & Bacon firm in regard to your review of these slides? A. Written reports, no. Q. Oral reports, yes? 10 slides . 11 Q. Did you get paid for you r review of 12 those slides sir? , 13 1 A. Sometimes but not usually. 14 Q. Do you have any records wh ich would 15 reflect when and which matters you re vi ewed? 16 A N . o. 171 Q. What, if any, contact di d you have 18 with Mr. William Shinn during the tim e frame 1966 19 through 1982? 20 A. Mr. Shinn would occasionally be p resent with 21 Mr. Hardy and may have been present a t the trial 22 in Warsaw, Missouri. There were very f ew other 23 j times in that period up until this ca se now 24 pending that I had contact wi th Mr . S h i nn . C 25 Q. Did Mr. Shinn or Mr. Har dy attend 405 Noathfi.ld Avenue waga and spineili West 0r.n9.. N. 107052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 !.y ! R ! E E '`! OIE5E.,F 13

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Who is Janet Brown? i 9 10 11 16) past six months or year in our research activities. ~ 17~ Janet Brown and I have had lunch on two or three 18; occasions in that period. That's about all I can 191 remember. 20~ Q. When you say she is counsel for one 211 of the donor companies, you are referring to 22 231 A. I have to be reminded of which company 24 25 Sommers - direct 196 meetings at the Council for Tobacco Research which you attended also? A. Meetings of a scientific nature, no. Meetings of scientific information for donor organizations, not that I remember. Financial meetings, not that I remember. Other meetings, well, only in reference to this particular case. A. Janet Brown is counsel for one of the donor companies. Q. , What, if any, contact did you have with her during the time period 1966 through 1982? A. Janet Brown would attend as a representative of a donor company the board of directors meetings where I'would briefly present highlights of the American Tobacco Company? because I just don't remember for sure. Q. You don't know whether she is counsel waga and spineiii certifled shorthand reporters 405 Nathti.Id Av.nu. 1Mest 0r.n9e, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 015-01`°Y'

0 Sommers - direct 197 1 for American Tobacco Company. Is that correct? A. I have been told but that's hearsay, I think, s1 4 that she is. 1 Q. Did she ask you to review any matters 5 which were in litigation? 6 A. I ddn' t think so. 7 Q. Did Mr. Jacob ever ask you to review 8 ~ any matters in regard to litigation? 9 ; A. Mr. Jacob would occasionally come with other I 10 1 lawyers and be present when I reviewed some 11 microscopic slides. 12 Q. In regard to what? 13 A. Well, one gathered that it was a matter in 14 potential litigation. 15 1 Q. On how'many different occasions did 16 that occur? 17 ! A. Over the time period of 19 -- 18 Q. 1966 to 1982. 19 MR. HARTZELL: Up to January 1, 1982. 20 1 A. I suppose half a dozen. ; 21 Q. Do you recall what cases they were? 22 A N . o. 23 'I, Q. Did you render any reports with 24 regard to your review of those slides? 25 A. No. 405 NortMi.ld Awnue waga and spinelli Wat Oranps, N. J. 07052 201-781-9886 certified shorthand reporters C`tR HN 01~..'r`'t01 1E3

f 1 Sommers - direct 198 Q. Neither oral nor written? 21 A. I explained what I saw in the slides and 3i what I believed, yes. 41 Q. Did you give testimony in any of the 5 6 7 9 10 cases in which you reviewed slides for Mr. Jacob? A. Would testimony include deposition? Q. Yes. That's what you are doing here today. You are giving testimony. A. Oh, all right. I believe in respect to the Galbraith case, he, Mr. Jacob, not in any other 11~ case. 12 Q. Just so you understand, a deposition, 13; although it is somewhat informal insofar as our 14 I being in a conference room, is a judicially 151 sanctioned proceeding and that everything you say 16 and I say and everybody else says will be taken 17i down by this certified shorthand reporter. Do you 18 understand that? 19 A. Yes. 20, Q. And that under certain circumstances 211i the testimony that you give here can be used at 22! the time of trial. Do you understand that? 23 ~ A. Yes . 24I Q. I just want to make sure we had that 25 squared away. Who is Alexander Holtzman? 405 NonhriNd Awnu. waga and spinelli Wat Oranp., N. 107052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 0 ~.~O 16 t

0 Sommers - direct . 199 1 A. Mr. Holtzman is counsel for Philip Morris. Q. What, if any, contact did you have with Mr. Holtzman during the time period 1966 4 i I through 1982? A. Mr. Holtzman would occasionally visit the office and I would speak with him. Occasionally I would be invited to his office and have lunch with him or dinner and he would be present as a 9~ representative of a donor company at the board of 101 directors meetings. 11~ Q. These visits, these luncheon visits, ~ 12i were they just social in nature? i 131; A. They had some relevance to smoking and • i 14; health research but they were by and large more 151 social than scientific. 16' Q. What relevance did they have to 17, smoking and health research, sir? 18 1 A. If Mr. Holtzman inquired of what progress 19; was being made or what was new or interesting, 201 then I would respond. 21I Q. How frequently did you have these i _ 22i lunches with Mr. Holtzman? 23 24 A. On the order from maybe once every other year to maybe some years once a year. 251. Q. Was that your only contact with Mr. waga and spinefli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfield Awnu. Wat Onnye. N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 CTR In"N 01501"

Sommers - direct 200 1 Holtzman other, than these meetings at the board of 2 1 directors of the Council for Tobacco Research? 3 1 A. Yes. I mentioned that I also would have 4 occasionally dinner with Mr. Holtzman. ~ 5 i Q. Other than these dinner meetings, j 6 1 luncheon meetings and the board of director 7 1 meetings at the Council for Tobacco Research, did I 81 you ever have any other contact with Mr. Holtzman? i 9 A. Mr. Holtzman has invited me to speak on 10 occasion to representa tives of the donor company. 11 Q. Where did you make these speeches? 12 A. I have spoken as invited once at the office 13 of Philip Morris, once somewhere in North Carolina 14 and on one other-occasion when a luncheon was held 15 with editors of a news magazine. 161 Q. What news magazine? 171 A Time . . i 18! Q. When did that occur? 19 A. I can't remember but if somebody kno ws the 20 name of the chief editor, then that would recall 21 approximately what year. I would guess it was, 22 but I shouldn't guess, certainly over ten years I 23 a o g . 24 Q• What was the reason for your meeting 25 with the editor of Time magazine? 405 Northfl.ld Awnu. waga and spineiii VWst Oranqa, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9886 CTR HN 01501B

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 81 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 .,~ 24 t 25 0 Sommers - direct 201 A. It was thought that these individuals perhaps would like to hear about progress in smoking and health research. Q. Did you do that in your capacity as a member of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. Yes. Q. Was that part of the responsibilities as a member of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. I.'m not sure about a member but I believe at that time I was either chairman or perhaps research.director. Was it the responsibility of either the chairman of the Scientific Advisory Board or the research director to meet with representatives of the press? A. I don't know that it was the responsibility in the sense that I could have refused. Q• But it was one of the responsibilities that you assumed. Is that correct? A. No. It's my general policy to accept invitations to speak to any group if they wish me to and not to be exclusive about who I will and will not speak to and that doesn't mean that I spoke only about smoking and health. . waga and spineiii certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfl.Id Awnu. Waat Orany.. N. J. 07052 . 201•731•9868 CTR HN 0 1 EJO 1 9 I

Sommers - direct 202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did you understand that your meeting with a representative of Time magazine was for the purpose of public relations for the tobacco industry? A. I don't know the answer but if that was the purpose, it had no result. Q. Do you have an understanding of what public relations is, sir? A. It may have a legal or business meaning different from what I would think of as public relations. Q. Why don't you tell us what you believe public relations to include? A. Public relations in respect to an individual who might be a movie star, an author, a playwright consists of bringing the product of the individual or group to the public in the form of publicity. In respect to other institutions such as universities and charitable organizations, it points out how much money has either been collected or expended on various worthwhile purposes and then certain individuals who are politicians or hope to become so have public relations experts to put them before the public in the most favorable light. That's my idea of the waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North/iNd Avenu. W.st Okange, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HIN OVE-i0~'0

Sommers - direct 203 1 field of public relations. 2 Q. Would preparation of publications on 3 a particular subject setting forth the view of an 4 industry fall within the definition of public 5 relations that you provided to us? 6 MR. HARTZELL: I object. What 7 difference does it make? He is not an expert on 8 public relations and what falls within and without 9 i t. You can answer. 10 A. If prepared by an industry organization, 11 then I think the answer would be yes. 12 Q. Is the Council for Tobacco Research 13 an industry organization? 14 A N . o. 15 Q. The board of directors of the Council 16 for Tobacco Research is made up of repr esentatives 17 1 from the donor companies. Is that corr ect? 18 A s Y . . e 19 Q. Do they set the policy for the 20 Council for Tobacco Research? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Who sets the policy fo r th e Council 231 for Tobacco Research? 24 A. The policy of funding meritorious research 25 goes back a number of years before I joi ned the 405 Nwthfi.ld Awnu. waga and spinelli 1Nett Onny.. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731•9888 Ct R t t E'°! «1EE54.d !_. 1

Sommers - direct 204 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 `8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Council for Tobacco Research, and as amended by successive scientific directors, I believe it sets the policy. Q. What role does the board of directors at the Council for Tobacco Research play? A. It discusses and votes on business matters such as the budget. 0. Anything other than the budget? A. Well, I'm not privy to the meetings and decisions of the board of directors, so if there are other things, I don't recall them. Q. Have you attended meetings of the I . I board of directors? A. Yes. I attend them with other members of the scientific staff and/or members of the Scientific Advisory Board to give a brief 171 presentation on highlights of recent research 18 19 20 21 activities, expenditures of funds in certain areas and to answer any questions, and at that point, all scientific personnel leaves the room. Q. You told us that you've acted as an 221 an expert for at least Shook, Hardy & Bacon in i 231 litigation involving claims arising out of the use 241 of cigarettes. Have you acted as a consultant in 1 25 obtaining expert witnesses in such litigation in 405 NorthiiNd Avenue waga and spinelli West Orange, N. J. 07052 201 •731 •9888 certified shorthand reporters I C T R H N 0 1 E5 022

0 1 Sommers - direct 205 which you did not act as an expert witness? 2 A. I have suggested in different cases 3 individuals t hat I thought were reliable 4 pathologists in certain fields of disease 5 diagnosis. 6 Q. In which cases, sir? 7 A. In the Galbraith case and in the current ~ 8 ca se. 9 Q. When you say current case, is that 10 the name of a case? 11 A. The case's name usually is the family name 12 of the complainant and that is Cipollone. 13 Q. Who did you recommend in. the 14 Ci ollone case? p 15 MR. NORTHRIP: Mr. Edell, are you 16 limiting your questions to 1982 in this fact 17 d o iti ? ep s on 18 uestions HARTZELL: All these MR q . 19 t t J 1 '82 s op a anuary , . 20 A. Then it's outside the time frame. 21 Q. While you were director of 22 laboratories at Lenox Hill Hospital, wha t was your 23 income from your relationship with that hospital? 24 MR. HARTZELL: You want the whole 25 period from the time he went there or give an 405 NorthfiNd Awnu. waga and spinelli Ylhtt Orany., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 CT R H N 0 15 02 23'

Sommers - direct 206 1 approximation? 2 MR. EDELL: That's correct. 3 Q• If it changed substantially at any 4 point in time, please tell us. 5 A. As I have previously on testimony in medical 6 malpractice suits, I object to that kind of 7 question. That's a personal matter and I don't $ think I should be required to an.swer it. However, 9 the judge in the medical malpractice cases has 10 ruled that I should answer. Therefo re, I will 11 r answe . 12 Q. Well, thank you. Will you. 13 MR. HARTZELL: Just the'figure. 14 A. Approximately at the beginning in 1968, on 15 the order oT $75,000 salary rising t o 16 approximately 108,000 in the year 19 79. 17 Q. Did you receive any oth er monies 18 arising out of your work at Lenox Hi ll Hospital 19 other than your salary? 20 MR. HARTZEL L: From Len ox Hill 21 Hospital? 22 Q. From patien ts or from anyone else. 23 A. I have had for man y years a private 24 consultation practice. Almost all of it is with 25 other pathologists and I never charge them at all. 405 NorthtiNd Awnu. waga and spinelli Wat 0?nny., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731-9688 CTR HN 0 1 E :5-024.'

I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 Sommers - direct 207 Once in a while at the request of a p atient, I will review slides, and in that case , I charged at the beginning of that time period $35 and at the nd $35 e . Q. Approximately what was your income at Francis Delafield Hospital prior to 1966? A. I just don't remember. Q. Was it less or more tha n Lenox Hill Hospital? A. It was substantially less. Q. What is your present sa lary from the Council for Tobacco Research? A. It's as indicated in one of th e documents, whose number I don't recall, $120,00 0 per annum plus $30,000 deferred compensation. MR. EDELL: Would you m ark these. (Sommers Exhibits 4D an d 4E marked ' for identification.) Q. You have before you Exh ibits 4D and E. Can you tell us what they are? A. 4D is a photocopy of a letter dated February 25, 1981 addressed to Joseph Simone, Esq. and the law firm and address given. Do you wish me to read the letter? Q. No, you don't have to r ead that. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Noathfldd Awnue W#st Oratw., N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 CTR t t N 0,t 55-025

Sommers - direct 208 y 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 `8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. It states -- Q. You don't have to do that. A. All right. Q. Who is Joseph Simone? A. I don't remember Joseph Simone but it is my family law firm. Q. When you say your family law firm, what do you mean, sir? A. I thought that was ordinary knowledge. You have a family doctor, you have a family lawyer. Q. I didn't know that. Thank you. How long has that firm been your family law firm? A. Since 1963. Q• Is it still your family law firm? MR. HARTZELL: I object and instruct the witness not to answer the question. It doesn't make any difference to anything. A. Q. Can you tell us what 4E is, sir? 4E is a photocopy of a document entitled employment agreement between, to abbreviate, CTR and Sheldon C. Sommers, M.D. Q• Is that in fact an accurate copy of your employment agreement with the Council for Tobacco Research? A. (Examining document.) Yes. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfl.{d Awnu• Vlhtt Onnys, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 C! R ! t N 0150226

0 1 . :.~, . 13 I ; Sommers - direct . 209 1 Q. Have you executed any documents subsequent to that contract in connection with your employment with the Council for Tobacco Research? A. No. Q. Turn to page two of the agreement, sir. Would you explain to us what you understand your responsibilities to be under subsection Roman numeral II? A. I find no Roman numeral II. 0. There are two i's. Do you see the two i' s? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 MR. HARTZELL: Which page? 14 me. 15 MR. EDELL: It's page three. Excuse MR. HARTZELL: Just to clarify, you are referring to the section 3B called duties which begins on page two and runs over to page three. Correct? MR. EDELL: That's right. Only subsection small ii in parentheses. MR. HARTZELL: You're asking him what does he understand his duties to be with respect to the subpart ii? MR. EDELL: Yes. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ~ waga and spinelli 405 Northtield Av.nw certified shorthand reporters 01-731~9868N. J. 07052 C`~R H~~ 0 1FcC~~'.~~~

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Yes. That they would like to see a copy of any Sommers - direct 210 THE WITNESS: May I read the sec.tion? MR. HARTZELL: Sure. A. (Examining document.) Yes, I read it. Q. What is your understanding of your responsibilities under that subsection? A. Under subsection ii? A. publication prior to its coming out in public. Q. What are your responsibilities under the subsection small i? A. That I am allowed one day per week to act as consultant outside of the CTR. Q. Do you do that? A. " Yes, unless I'm interfered with by other matters like this deposition. Q. You act as a consultant at Lenox Hill Hospital. Is that correct? A. Yes, and for part of the time period 1966 through '81 at the Manhattan VA Hospital. Q. Do you receive any other remuneration from CTR other than your salary of $150,000 a year? MR. HARTZELL: This is up to January 1, ' 82. MR. PARRISH: Object to the form of waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthffNd Awnua Watt Oranya, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR ~`~N 0 1~t028

; ; 0 Sommers - direct 211 1 the question. 2 A. When I have traveled, expenses in regard to 3 site visits, attendance at medical co nventions or 4 medical courses, usually pathology, I am allowed 5 my travel expenses. 6 Q. Who is Edwin Wilson? 7 A. Under one of the previous exhib its, he is, I ~ 8 believe, listed as a member of the Sc ientific 9 Advisory Board. (Examining documents .) The name 10 being a rather common one, I want to make sure 11 that I rAfer to the proper person. Edwin B. 12 Wilson, yes. He was a professor at Harvard School 13 of Public Health, a prominent epidem iologist. 14 Q. Is he alive or deceased ? 15 A. Deceased. 16 Q. Who is J. Morrison Brad y? 17 A. Dr. Brady was at one time a me mber of the il 18 . scientific staff of the counc 19 Q. Is he alive or deceased ? 20 A. I believe he is still alive bu t I'm uncertain. 21 Q. Where was he living las t time you 22 knew of him? 23 A. I don' t know. 24 Q. What was the last time you saw Dr. 25 Hockett? 405 Nathfl.id Awnue SL waga and spinelli wat Or.ny.. N. J. 07052 201-731-9868' certified shorthand reporters CTR f f1't 015029

Sommers - direct 212 1 3 ; 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q. Where does he live, sir? A. About three, four weeks ago. 0. Where did you see him? A. In the office of the Council for Tobacco Research. Q. How was his health, sir? A. For a man over 80, it's not bad. Q. When you say,not bad, does he have any illnesses that you are aware of? A. He doesn't consult me medically so I don't know. Q. He hasn't told you that he has some type of illness, is that correct, or you haven't heard it from somebody else that he has a certain type of illness? A. As a physician, I'm trained in observation and I do observe that Dr. Hockett doesn't seem as healthy as he did some time ago. Q. In what respect does he appear to you not to be as healthy as he was some time ago? A. He moves more slowly and with a little difficulty. He doesn't seem as alert and his memory, while sometimes excellent, is sometimes not. 25 A. He has recently moved to waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters New Hampshire. 405 Northfhld Awnu. VWst Onnp.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 1 CTR- HN 015030

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 I 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 0 Sommers - direct 213 Q. Where in New Hampshire? A. I either was never told or don't remember. no w? A. Q. He lives there on a permanent basis That's his intention. Q. Where is he presently living? A. As of today, I j ust don' t know. Q. Where was he living yesterday? A. I don' t know. Q Wh h li i th k A. . ere was e v ng ree wee s ago? He was still living in New York City. Q. Where in New York City? A. He owned a brownstone at 60 East 80 Street. A. Q. Has he sold that? Shall I give a detailed answer or just say I don't know? To be responsive, I need to tel l you a conversation which is hearsay but I will. Q. Pleas e do. A. Dr. Hockett -- MR. HARTZELL: I don't think we need to o into d t il g e a . A. Dr. Hockett has owned this brownstone for ~ 23~ many years. An offer has been made by one of his 24 25 former tenants to collect a group of people to buy it. There is something that has held up the waga and spineiii certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMi.IW Avenue West Or.np., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN .~1~~~~1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 405 Noathii.ld Avenue West Onn9e, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 Sommers - direct 214 financing. MR. HARTZELL: Could I interrupt you. I don't really think -- MR. EDELL: That's sufficient. i t h MR. HARTZELL: -- that we should get n o t at. Q. What is Dr. Hockett's background? A. He i s a biochemist, at one time a professor at MIT . Q. How is Mr. Hoyt's health? A. Mr. Hoyt is terminally ill. 0. Is he in the hospital? A. I think he is at home last I heard. Q. What disease? A. He has a malignant lymphoma of the stomach. Q. Are you a smoker, sir? A. I smoke a pipe and an occasional cigar. Q. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? A. A No, I have 0. Is Y not. your wife alive? . A es. Q. Is Y she a smoker? . A. es. Q. Yes. Cigarettes? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CT ~ H N 0 1 5 0 32

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 215 i MR. NORTHRIP: Mr. Edell, I believe ! that we had previously had these questions come up ~ in deposition and I believe this type of question ~ about smoking habits of family members and they ! were presented to Magistrate Cowen and I believe ! Magistrate Cowen ruled that those were improper questions so I would object to them as having no relevance in this proceeding. MR. HARTZELL: Is that correct, counsel, that you are asking questions that Magistrate Cowen had ruled in this case were improper? MR. EDELL: I don't recall that being his ruling. MR. HARTZELL: It's your statement that he did not rule that those were improper questions? MR. EDELL: Could you read my statement back to the questioner, please. MR. HARTZELL: You are saying you don't recall that he ruled they are improper? MR. EDELL: I don't recall his ruling on that matter, counsel. MR. PARRISH: I'll be glad to give you the citation. ~~- waga and spinelli 405 NatMiNd Av.nu. West 1•791~9866H. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 0 CTR HN 0150331

1 Sommers - direct 216 MR. HARTZELL: I won't argue about 2 this. 3 MR. EDELL: I will accept Mr. 4 Northrip's representation. 5 MR. HARTZELL: That he so ruled. 6 MR. EDELL: Yes, but I have no 7 present recollection of him having rule in that 1 8 regard. 9 MR. HARTZELL: I don't want to 10 cross-examine you but I want to be careful about 11 this. , 12 Q. Who is Dr. Blasingame? 13 A. I don't recall ever hearing the name. 14 Q. Dou you recall having any contact with 15 him? 16 A. No . 17 Q. Who is Dr . Jarvik? 18 A. I recall the name but nothing else. 19 Q. Do you recall Dr. Jarvik doing any 20 work with regard to the subject of addiction? 21 A. No. That's all I remember. 22 Q. Are you familiar with the literature 23 1 regarding addiction, sir, with'respect to 24 cigarettes, of course? 25 A. I have read about addiction in general and 405 Noathfi.ld Awnu. waga and spinelii VWst Onn9., N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 certified shorthand reporters CTR HIN 015034

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 217 i about claims concerning cigarettes. Q• Have you ever expressed any opinions to•the public or representatives of the government with respect to the issue of addiction? A. I think it's included in some of the statements made to committees or subcommittees of the Congress. Q. What, if anything, did you do to insure the validity of your statements in that regard? MR. HARTZELL: Why don't you find out what was said here. If you have particular statements, show him what you are talking about. Get something in context. Q. Sir? THE WITNESS: If you would repeat the question. (Question read.) A. I consulted the original surgeon general's report, 1964. Q. That's it? A. That's all I remember. Q. You didn't do any research to see what occurred from 1964 up through and including the time that you made all these other statements? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North/ie1E Awnue Nhst Orunye, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN OI`..~-`t~~~

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 218 MR. HARTZELL: What other statements are you talking about? MR. EDELL: The statements with regard to the issue of addiction. MR. HARTZELL: But which statements? You're covering a period of a few decades here. You are just talking at large over years and years and several appearances. You are not pointing the question to anything. MR. EDELL: If you want to object, you can object. MR. HARTZELL: I am objecting. I'm trying to suggest how,you can make it a proper question. MR. EDELL: I appreciate it but I'll take a continuing legal education course to learn that . MR. NORTHRIP: Furthermore, as you are undoubtedly aware, at depositions of other experts, Mr. Weiner and Mr. Novack and others have objected if I was going to ask a question of the witness about a particular statement and if I had a copy, I would show it to him and I always have done so. Q. Sir? waga and spinelli 405 NortMi*ld Awnu• certified shorthand reporters 201 ~~9686N. J. 07052 I C T R- H N 0 1 IS 0 -3- 6

Sommers - direct 219 1 A. My memory of the question is whether I did 2 any research beyond what I've already stated and I 3 don't think the word "research" is applicable here, 4 so research no , . 5 Q. Did you review any literature 6 subsequent to the 1964 surgeon general's report 7 regarding the subject of cigarette smoking and $ addiction? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Did you consider that mate rial w hen 11 you made statements to representatives of the 12 government with regard to the issue of cigarette 13 smoking and addiction? 14 A. I believe so. 15 Q. What opinion have you expressed with 16 regard to cigarette smoking and addiction? 171 A. That as I understand the definition of I 18j addiction and as expressed in the original surgeon 19 20 21 22 general's report, cigarette smoking does not represent an addiction. Q. What is your understanding of the definition of the term "addiction" in the context 23, of your using the word in concluding that 24 25 cigarette smoking is not addictive? A. Addiction has various definitions. 405 NorthtiMd Avwnu. waga and spinelli MVst Or.n9., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 0 15037"

Sommers - direct 220 Q. That's why I framed the question the way I did, sir. A. The basic psychiatric definition -- Q. You don't understand my question. MR. HARTZELL: He understands it. L t hi I 10 e m answer. MR. EDELL: Let me finish. MR. HARTZELL: Let him answer. MR. EDELL: Let me finish. MR. HARTZELL: No, let him finish. 11 MR. EDELL: I will continue anyway. 12 MR. HARTZELL: He is not going to 13 ans wer the question. Put another question. 14 Q . I want you to understand that I want 15 to know your understanding of the term "addiction" 16 in the manner in which you used it in concluding 17 tha t cigarette smoking was not addictive. 18 MR. HARTZELL: He has given you the 19 ans we r. 20 A. I understand. 21 MR. HARTZELL: Stop interrupting him. 22 Q. Now would you answer the question, 23 le as e? p 24 A. Based upon the definition used by 25 psy ch iatrists, addiction involves a form of waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthfNld Avanu. YMat Orange, N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 C T R HIIN 0 1 E; 0-23 F3

r . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 16 0 Sommers - direct 221 concentrated activity in the use of a drug, ordinarily a street drug, to the extent that it takes up much of the activity and interest of the person to the exclusion of things like employment, nutrition, exercise, that when the substance is withdrawn, there are withdrawal symptoms of a rather severe type, and as a corollary, crime may be the result of addiction because the individual seeks out the material even to the extent of burglary or robbery. Q.. That is the manner in which you use the word "addiction" in your concluding that cigarette smoking is not addictive. Is that correct? A. In part, yes. Q. What part? 171 A. That cigarette smoking does not become the 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 i central activity of a person's life to the exclusion of employment, nutrition, exercise, to the extent that cessation is not followed by serious withdrawal symptoms and to the effect as a corollary that people do not rob to obtain cigarettes. Q. In other words, someone would have to have all of those symptoms or participate in all waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North}iNd Awnu. 1/Mat Oranqe, N. J. 07052 201•731•9866 CTR HN 01 503*9

Sommers - direct 222 1 those activities that you just descri bed for us 2 before you would conclude that a pers on was 3 addicted. Is that correct? ~ ~ 4 A. You see, I'm a pathologis t and my special ; 5 I expertise is to examine a dead body and determine ~ ~ 6 it likely died from a drug, and other than that, ~ ~ 7 my opinion is that of a physician. ~ ~ 8 Q. I understand that. I wa nt to know 9 what your definition of addiction is . 10 MR. HARTZELL: He just explained. 11 MR. EDELL: He said it was in part 12 and then I just went and asked him a nother 13 question and now he is telling me he is a 14 th l i t pa o og s . 15 Q• Do you want the question read back so 16 you understand? 17 MR. EDELL: Would you please read the 18 question back. 19 (Question read.) 20 A. You wish me to answer the question as read? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. Not necessari-ly. 23 Q. What symptoms do not have to be 24 present where you would still consider the person 25 to be addicted? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthHNd Awnu. W.1t Oany., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 Ci [''~ t tN 0153040

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 223 A. I didn't describe any symptoms except withdrawal symptoms and I believe that a person could be addicted without severe withdrawal symptoms. Q. It's your testimony that the other elements which you described such as centering their activity, the individual centering their activity around the use of the particular substance in question to the exclusion of their job and exercise are not symptoms of addiction. Is that correct? A. Medically I would myself not consider those symptoms. Q. How would you describe them, sir? How would you categorize them? A. Activities. Q. Would one have to display all of the activities which you related to us in order for you to consider the individual to be addicted? A. No. Q. Which activities do you feel are necessary before you decide a person is or is not addicted? A. I'm not called upon to decide whether a person is or is not addicted. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters I 405 NorthiWW Av.nu. W.st 0?rany., N. J. 07052 201•731-9666 CTR HN 015041

1 2 3 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 405 North(f.id Awnue Wat Onnye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9555 Sommers - direct . 224 Q• But you have expressed an opinion in that regard before Congressional bodies, have you not? A. Using information available to me, yes. Q. So I just want to find out what activities you say an individual has to participate in in order for you to consider that individual to be addicted based upon the materials that are available to you. MR. NORTHRIP: Mr. Edell, I object to this form of the question because of the fact that we are covering a spectrum of time here referring to Congressional testimony that may have taken place over a period of time and we have not shown the witness that testimony from the depos ition of your addiction witness in the case. He has testified that his definition has changed over the years and Dr. Sommers' definition may have changed over the years, too, so I would suggest if you are going to ask him about Congressional testimony that you at leas t tell him when and since the documents I thin k have been produced in this case, that you show hi m what statements you are asking him about. Q. Has your definition of addiction waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR ttN 015042

0 1 3 4 5 6 7 Sommers - direct 225 changed over the years as Mr. Northrip has indicated? A. As medical and psychiutric definitions and understanding have changed, I, keeping up, have necessarily also changed and in respect to your last question, I believe I already answered it and thirdly, I would request a brief recess. ~ i Q. Sure . 9 (Short break.) 10 Q. Who is Jet Lincoln? 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. I'm not sure if it's J-e-d or J-e-t is an employee of Philip Morris Corp. Q. Wtiat, if any, contact have you had with him? A. He writes me letters and asks me questions about things like nutrition as a factor in cancer. 17; Q. For what period of time has he been 18 19 doing this? A. Maybe five years. 20j Q. Where are those letters? 21 A. If his letters went back to 1981 or before, 221 since I for many years have cleaned out my files i 23~ at the end of every year, my copies would have 241 been discarded. 251 Q. You destroy your files every year? 405 NonMiNd Awnue waga and spinelli West Oranpe. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 CTR HN 015043

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 226 A. No. I cull them of things that I think are clutter. Q. You do this on an annual basis? A. At the end of every year. Q. Do you do that with anyone's help? A. I do it by myself. Q. Do you do this with regard to correspondence that you receive in your capacity as a member of the Scientific Advisory Board and chairman of the Scientific Advisory Board and scien'tific director? A. Yes, and also as an individual pathologist, member of certain organizations.and general correspondence, in all those respects. Q'. Have you ever met with Mr. Lincoln? A. Yes. I would know him if I saw him. Q. Have you ever discussed the issue of cigarette smoking and health with him? A. That's what he discusses with me and I try to answer his questions. Q. So you discuss it with him also? MR. HARTZELL: Come on. MR. EDELL: I could say that also but I won' t . Q. Could you give me the substance of waga and spineili certified shorthand reporters 405 NathflNd Av.nu• W.st Okany., N. J. 07052 201•731•9866 CT ~ 1"IN 015044

( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 b 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 Sommers - direct 227 your conversations with Mr. Lincoln concerning cigarette smoking and health? A. His interests center around nutrition. He has the idea that it's very important in cancer in general and he collects articles on the subject and I explain to him that animal experiments on nutrition and cancer go back at least 70 years and that I don't believe it's a fruitful field for CTR's involvement. Q. Of what significance is the fact that animal studies have gone back 70 years? A. It's in no way a new or innovative approach to cancer research. Q. What is Arthur D. Little? A. Arthur D. Little Company in the Cambridge, Boston area is a commercial think tank and help you with your organization or your organizational research kind of corporation. Q. Have they ever done any research with regard to cigarette smoking and disease? A. If they did, it must go back before or at the time that I first had any connection with the CTR. Q. What was your understanding of that research? ~& Wa~a and spinelli 405 Nathfi.ld Av.nu. West 1-731a9888N J. 07052 cert ied shorthand reporters 0 I I CTR HN 01EI-t 045

Sommers - direct 228 A. I just don't remember. 2 Q. Did you ever meet with any 3 representative of Arthur D. Little? 4 A. From before that time I already knew one of 5 their research executives and I continued to have 6 occasional contacts with him, but as to whether 7 they involve CTR research, I just don't remember 8 and I have forgotten his name. Perhaps if you 9 would remind me . I 10 Q. Does Dr. Kensler sound familiar? 11 A Yes th t' i ht . , a s r g . 12 Q. What were your contacts with Dr. 13 Kensler? 14 A. At one time I would go once a week to 15 Polaroid Corp. because they had an ultraviolet 16 microscope, and it's about that time that I first 17 met Dr. Charles Kensler and his interests were , 18 multiple, but somewhere along the line, he decided 19 and I gather it was his invention, that you could 20 use some kind of bird windpipe as a test object 21 for various substances and they may have included 22 cigarette smoke or components. 23 Q Chi k h ? . c en trac ea ; 24 A Y . es. 25 Q. Were you aware of that literature? il waga and spinelli {~N.~t 0osn9 N. Avenue J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 1 CTR HN DIE3i 046

Sommers - direc.t . 229 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 . 13 14 15 A. I was aware of that activity. Q• How did you become aware of that activity? A. I think he personally told me about it. Q. Did he tell you about any animal experiments other than the chicken trachea? A. I don't recall. Q. Is there any significance in scientific research in regard to reproducing the findings of one researcher by another? A. It's usually regarded as important that any experimental results shall be replicable in other laboratories under other auspices. Q. Why is that important? A. Science doesn't progress ordinarily by the 161 unconfirmed findings or reports of a single 17! researcher. 18i Q. Why is it important to reproduce a 19 20 21 22 researcher's findings in another laboratory? What significance is it? A. For the reason just stated. Q. What in reproducing a researcher's I 23; finding in a different laboratory is significant 24 25 in progressing scientific or medical understanding of a particular matter? waga and spineili certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfie{d Avenue West Or.nye, N. J. 07052 201-731•9868 CTR MN 015047

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 Sommers - direct 230 A. If, for example, you claim the sun rises in the west, then likely very few people will believe you unless one or a number of other people make the same observation. Q. I'm sorry, sir. I was trying to find out why it's significant in terms of reproducing animal studies. A. Pardon me. MR. HARTZELL: You didn't ask him about animal studies. MR. EDELL: I thought -- MR. HARTZELL: The point is so abundantly clear as to what he meant and what you know what he meant but go ahead. Animal studies. A. Yes. Let us say that turtle tuberculosis can be only produced in hamsters that have been given corticosteroids. This unusual finding may reveal susceptibility of turtle owners on steroids to get TB. Until this is repeated and generally accepted by the scientific community, that just remains an unconfirmed observation and it doesn't advance science. Q. Does the confirmation advance science? A. If it's responsibly done, appropriately 25 published after peer review and then becomes a waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfl.Id Awnw IAhst Or.nyc N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR VIN 0 1 5 046 1

Sommers - direct 231 1 part of the general body of scientific knowledge. 21 Q. Why is it important that it be 3 5 6 published and subject to peer review? A. Unless a medical manuscript is reviewed by ! i one or more usually anonymous individuals thought i to be expert or knowledgable in that field who act ~ i as a kind of jury, then the editor, if a ' responsible person, would not, unless it's ~ 9 approved, allow its publication. 10 Q. Why is that important in terms of ~ I s 11 advancing medical science? ~ ~ 12 A. If that is believed, if that process were j 13 14 not followed, the medical and scientific literature would be so cluttered with junk that 151 one would be drowned in the volume of it and would 16 have no appropriate basis for judging its quality, 17; particularly if it were not in the field of one's 18; own discipline or one's own expertise. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. In what way does confirmation of a prior animal experiment advance A. medical science? Already answered. Q. Does it substantiate the validity of the prior experiment? MR. HARTZELL: I direct the witness not to answer the question. He explained all this. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NathiNld Awnue W.:t Ornny., N. J. 07052 201•731-9888 CTR HN 015049

Sommers - direct 232 1 2 This is a self-evident point to begin with. are you wasting the Why time of everybody on something 1 31 like this. He explained it. You are just 4 5 6 12 23 24 repeating it and it really serves no purpose at all so I won't let him answer any more on that. Q. If one is able to reproduce another 77 researcher's results in terms of animal studies, 1~ 8' is it important to publish those results? 9 1 A. Yes. 10 l Q. Why is it important to publish those 111 results? A. It is important so that the scientific 131 community in this country, if that's where it's 141 published, and other countries throughout the ~ I i 15i world will realize what has been done. ~ 16~ Q. Why is that important? i 17 MR. HARTZELL: I direct the witness I 18 not to answer the question. It's a nonsensical ~ 19~ question. I I ! 20' MR. EDELL: Why is it nonsensical, j 21) counsel? { I 22~ MR. HARTZELL: Never mind. I direct - ~ I him not to answer the question. The record is pretty clear. 25I MR. EDELL: On what basis? L waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Noathtield Awnue W.st Or.nye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 C' R \ • { 4• 0 1 50E30

i 405 Nathfi.id Awnu. Mhst Oranya, N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 0 Sommers - direct 233 1 MR. HARTZELL: On the basis that this 2 is clear and already explained and it's a waste of 3 time. It's harassing the witness over nothing. 4 You are entitled to ask questions here and I'm not 5 trying to object but this is kind of a stupid line 6 f i i nqu o ry. 7 MR. EDELL: Thank you v ery much. I 8 a i t th t pprec a e a . 9 MR. HARTZELL: It's rep eti tious and 10 it's obvious to be in with . g 11 MR. EDELL: I hope it w ill be. 12 Q. Sir, did you ever hold the opinion 13 that tobacco was an extrinsic carcin oge n? 14 A No not th t it was . , . a 15 Q. Did you' ever hold an op ini on that 16 tobacco was probably an extrinsic ca rci nogen? 17 ) A. No. That it might be. I 18 Q. Did you ever express th e o pinion that 19 80 percent of all lung cancers had u nde rlying 20 chronic lung disease? 21 A. Yes. 22 ~ Q. What is the predominant fo rm of 23 chronic lung disease in human beings ? 24 A. Throughout the world, it's pro bab ly 25 1 tuberculosis. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters l _, TR t '~ ( E 015051

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q. 1966 through 1976. The question was predominant lung disease? Q. That is correct. Sommers - direct 234 Q. Throughout the United States. I'm sorry. A. In what time period? A. A. Pneumonia. Q. What is chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? A. It is a clinical term for various combinations of chronic bronchitis and emphysema. Q. Are chronic bronchitis and emphysema the predominant form of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease in human beings in the United States? MR. HARTZELL: I just didn't hear it. 171 (Question read.) 18 19 20 MR. HARTZELL: I was wondering the time period. Everything is up to January 1, 1982? MR. EDELL: That's correct. 211 MR. HARTZELL: Nothing after that. 221 A. Clinically, yes. Pathologically I believe Q. What do you mean by that, sir? A. Pathology involves a gross and microscopic waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NoAhfiNd Awnu. VWst Orep.. N. J. 07052 201-731-9868 lr ! R t t t `1 0.k. E.5051C1

( ~. 405 NorthfiNd Avwnue Mtt Orange, N. J. 07052 201•731•9588 Sommers - direct 235 1 and by other techniques examination of lung 2 tissues, and when you examine lung tissues of 3 Americans, you don't find a very high incidence of 4 chronic bronchitis, so that it wouldn't be correct 5 to answer the question yes. 6 Q. Can you observe chronic bronchitis on 7 microscopic examination? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Can you observe emphysema on 10 pathological examination? 11 A Yes . . 12 Q. Do you consider chronic bronchitis to 13 be a chronic lung dise ase? 14 A. We.11, under the clinical definition of 15 chronic obstructive pu lmonary disease, it is 16 included. Whether the bronchi are a separate 17 entity or a part of th e lung, one has to depend 18 upon what anatomist s a nd histologists have decided 19 and I believe they hav e decided that it is to be 20 considered part of the lung. 21 Q. Do you consider it to be part of the 22 lun ? g 23 A. Under the definitions of anatomists and 24 histologists, yes. 25 Q. Does cigarette smoking cause chronic waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR H~~ 0 1 ~~0~2

r 0 1 Sommers - direct 236 obstructive pul,monary disease in human beings? 2 A. We don't know that. 3 Q. When you say we, you are referring to 4 who, sir? 5 A. Those who have written on the subject, those 6 in the field with whom I have spoken, and myself. 7 Q. Are there some researchers who '8 believe that cigarette smoking causes chronic 9 obstructive pulmonary disease? 10 A. Yes. 11 'Q., Do most researchers in the area of 12 pulmonary disease believe that cigarette smoking 13 is the predominant cause of chronic obstructive 14 pulmonary disease? 15 MR. HARTZELL: Objection. 16 MR. NORTHRIP: I believe we are 17 getting into the expert deposition again and I 18 ob t th t b i jec on s. a as 19 Q. Again, up to 1982. 20 A. I don't know the answer. 21 Q. Did you ever make a review of the 22 literature in that-regard? 23 A. I have continued to try to keep up with the 24 literature on that subject. 25 Q. Who is Shields Warren? 405 NoatMiNd Av.nu• waga and spinelli Wast Oranya, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 C T R H N 0 1~0E__ t_*3

I I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 237 A. Shields Warren, professor of pathology, Harvard Medical School, first medical director of ~ the Atomic Energy Commission, awarded numerous prizes for his research on effects of ionizing radiation on human beings, authority on the i pathology of diabetes mellitus, a cancer diagnosis i expert, a trustee of Boston University, a famous man. Q. And a co-author with you on a number of papers. Correct? A. I think it's fair to say I was a co-author with him. Q. Did Dr. Warren review any of the pathological slides produced by Dr. Auerbach in his smoking dogs study? A. Yes. Q. Did you discuss Dr. Warren's review of those pathological slides? A. I asked him what he thought. Q. What did he tell you? A. He thought that they were early carcinoma of the bronchus. Q. Was he qualified to make that determination, sir? A. Dr. Meissner, his successor, told me that waga and spinelli certified shorthand reportets 405 NowthfWd Avenu. Vltist Onnq., N. J. 07052 .201-731-9888 CTR HN 0 1 SOE-A

0 1 I I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct ~ Dr. Warren was no longer diagnosing surgical material and I took that to mean in a gentle way, no. Q. When did Dr. Warren review Dr. Auerbach's materials? A. It must have been in the summer or fall of 1970. Q. It was your im pression based upon your discussions with Dr. Meissner that Dr. Warren was not com petent at that time to review the slides. Is that correct? A. No. Dr. Meissner would not and did not say that. He said that Dr. Warren was no longer diagnosing surgical pathology material. Q. I understand that, sir. What I'm trying to ascertain is whether or not, based upon your conversation with Dr. Meissner, it was your feeling that Dr. Warren was not competent to make a diagnosis with regard to the pathological slides he reviewed of Dr. Auerbach's studies. A. Well, since it was Dr. Meissner's responsibility to maintain the quality of the diagnoses in that laboratory and thus his right to include or exclude anybody from making such diagnoses, he had excluded Dr. Warren. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nonh/iNd Av.nw VWst Oran9.. N. J. 070E 201•731-9886 CTR MN 0~~0555

2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct . 239 MR. EDELL: Could you read t he question back, please. (Question read.) A. I had no feeling on the matter. Q. Did you formulate an opinion in that ard re sir? g , A. I decided I had best discount what Dr. Warren told me. Q. When did Dr. Warren die? A. If you will permit me to look at o n e of the exhibits, I can confirm that, the public a tion list. Q. Take a look at number 290. A. Yes. I wrote a note following Dr. Warren's death for medical publication and that was published in 1980 and I guess he died either that ear or the ear before y y . Q. Were you aware of anyone other than Dr. Warren who reviewed the pathological slides produced by Dr. Auerbach in his smoking dogs study? A. A. Yes. Q. Dr. Who Lauren else reviewed those Ackerman. sl ides, sir? Q. Washington University? A. No. No longer. Q. He was associated? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthflNE Avanue W.ft Or.n9e, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR tFt"I 015056

I -, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 240 A. Maybe at that time. Q. Anyone else? A. There were others whose names I don't recollect. Q. Did you discuss with Dr. Ackerman his review of the slides? A. Yes. Q. What did Dr. Ackerman tell you? A. Dr. Ackerman told me that in his opinion there was no cancer. , Q. When did he tell you that? ~ ~ A. Sometime during the same time period that I I I spoke with Dr. Warren. That was again when? i A. In the summer or fall of 1970. Q. Do you know whether or not Dr. Ackerman received funding from the tobacco companies or from the Council for Tobacco Research? A. No, I don't know that. Q. You know that he was associated with the Washington University at St. Louis, Missouri? A. Yes, and the Fisher Cancer Hospital. Q. Were you aware that he did studies that were relevant to the issue of cigarette smoking and health? waga and spineiii certified shorthand reporters 405 NonhtNld Awnw W.st Oranpe, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CT R H N 0 1 E; 0 "371

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Sommers - direct 241 A. No. Q. How is it that you came to discuss this review by Dr. Ackerman of Dr. Auerbach' s pathological slides produced as a result of the smoking dogs study? A. It's a long time ago and I don't remember. Q. Were you a friend of Dr. Ackerman at the time? A. Yes. I am still a friend of Dr. Ackerman. Q. When did you first develop this personal,relationship with Dr. Ackerman? A. About 1952 or 1953 as best I can remember. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Did he perform research with Paul Lacey? A. They were in the same department, but whether they ever co-authored anything, I don't remember. Q. Mr. Hardy or Mr. Shinn advised you as to the research which Dr. Ackerman and/or Dr. Lacy was performing at the Washington University with regard to the issue of cigarette smoking and health, did they? MR. PARRISH: Object to the form of the question. A. Not that I remember. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northf{Nd Awnue V1hst Ore~ ~, N. J. 07052 201•731•988fj CTR HIN 0 15058

j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0 .Sommers - direct 242 Q• What was your understanding of the research that Dr. Ackerman was interested in? A. Dr. Ackerman has been regarded as the outstanding surgical pathologist in America and his articles as a group and including textbooks deal with diagnostic criteria of various diseases examined and operated on by surgeons. Q. What was his area of research, sir? A. Well, to the extent that collections of cases of colonic polyps with early cancer and a variety of other difficult diagnostic problems especially in the human breast, he would collect material, analyze and with co-authors, report on it and subsequently that would find a place in his of surgical pathology. Is is he an expert on lung pathology? was an expert, I believe, and still is in all types of human surgical pathology. Q. How do you define surgical pathology? A. The surgical pathologist assists the surgeon and that means assists in the classification and diagnosis of any material that is removed from a living person, particularly so-called biopsies. Q. Where did you have this conversation with Dr. Ackerman regarding Dr. Auerbach's studies? i .V: 405 NorthfNld Awnu. waga and spineili W.a orany•. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 015059

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 . •.; 25 Sommers - direct 243 A. It must have been in New York City. Q. Where in New York City? I ~ A. I can't remem ber. I i Q. Was it Research? at the Council for Tobacco A. I don't think so. Q. Was it a meeting held at one of the donor companies? A. No. It was himself and me, and the environment, I just don't recall. Q. You told us that you co-authored work with Dr. Warren. Was Dr. Warren a recipient of grants from the Council for Tobacco Research? A. He was a grantee. Whether once or more, I don' t know . 0. You co-authored articles with Dr. John Wyatt? A. Yes. Q. Was Dr. Wyatt a grantee of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Yes, and a member of the Scientific Advisory Boa rd . Q. You co-authored articles with Benjamin Burrows? I's that correct? A. Would you draw my attention to that? ~ waga and spinelli 406 Northfi.ld Awnu. West 1•731~9888N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 0 CTR HN 01 E-3060

rI 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 t: - - ':i 25 ` waga and spinelli 405 Northii.ld Avenue certified shorthand reporters 2 ~g 966gN. J. 07052 0 Sommers - direct 244 Q. Yes. A E i t i d . ( n ng ocumen .) xam Q. Take a look at 81. A. Yes, Clinical Pathologic Conference. That's a report of a case presented to a medical audience. It's a dia nostic diffi lt g cu y, yes. Q. Did you Jay Coffman? co-author an article with Dr. A. Yes. Q. Was Dr. A I believe so Coffman a CTR grantee? . . Did you S B ki h ? co-author articles with Dr. i usan uc ng am A. No. Her name Q. Sue? is Sue Buckingham. A. Yes. Q. Was she Research grantee? a Council for Tobacco A. Yes. Q. Do you Friedell? co-author articles with Dr. A. Yes. Q. Dr. Friedell was a CTR grantee, correct? A. Yes. t CTR MN 015061

Sommers - direct 245 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Edwin Fisher? A. Yes. As a referee. He does not include me as a co-author in his bibliography. Q. Was Dr. Ed win Fisher a CTR grantee? A. Yes. Q. Did you co-author articles with Dr. William McNary, Jr.? I i A. Yes. i Q. Was Dr. McNary a CTR grantee? I A. I don't remember that he was. - I Q. Did you co-author articles with ~ Leslie Baer? I A. Yes. Q. Was Dr. Baer a CTR grantee? A. Yes. MR. HARTZELL: Counsel, there are hundreds of articles here on this exhibit which is already marked and we will stipulate that Dr. Sommers co-authored with the people indicated on the exhibit. Why don't you just, if you want to find out which ones are grantees, just ask him the names. Why should we go through this elaborate listing process when this stuff is already here. A. Correction, please. Number 169, I am a waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters Did you co-author articles with Dr. 405 Nathtitid Awnw Wst Oranqe, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN 015-062

Sommers - direct 246 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 co-author with Dr. Edwin Fisher. Q. Dr. Sommers, did you co-author an article with Dr. Joseph Kirsner? A. Would you Q. 1973. MR. HARTZELL: What's the number? Are you just looking at his list? He has hundreds of articles here covering 35 years. You are just wasting time. MR. EDELL: They are set up in chronological number, counsel. MR. HARTZELL: If you have the number, of course he co-authored with whoever is shown here under the number. Why should we go through this and repeat it? A. A multi author book included both Dr. Kirsner and me. Q. Was Dr. Kirsner a CTR grantee? A. He has been, yes. Q. Did you co-author an article with Dr. Wechsler, Richard L. Wechsler? A. Again, number, please? Q. It's 1980. If I had the number, I would be happy to give it to you but I don't have it on this list. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMiNd Av.nw Wsst 0Fany. N. J. 07052 201•731-9888 CTR HN OI~063

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 405 NorthfiNd Avenue West Or.nye. N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 Sommers - direct 247 A. Ther e is an article that has nine co-authors and I am number three and he is the last. Q. Does that mean that you werer,'t co-authors on that article? A N . sir? o. Q. Wer e you co-authors with Dr. Wechsler, A. Yes. Q. Was Dr..Wechsler a CTR grantee? A. I don't remember that. Q. You don't recall him receiving two grants back in the fifties. Is that correct? A. Well, you see, that would -- MR. HARTZELL: 30 years before this article you are asking him? A. That would antedate my connection with the CTR . Q. Did you co-a uthor any article with Dr Feinstein? . A. Yes. I believe per haps two articles. A Q. Yes Was Dr. Fein stein a CTR grantee? . . Q. Did you co-a uthor any articles with Dr. Vidone, V-i-d-o-n-e, I believe in 1981? A. I don't understand the pronunciation. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR HN 01 50G4

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 Sommers - direct 248 Q. That's why I spelled it for you, V-i-d-o-n-e. A. Yes. Vidone, let me look. I don't find that one in 1981 so far. Q. You don't recall co-authoring -- A. Oh, I find it, number 297, Vidone, a co-worker of Dr. Feinstein is listed with me as co-authors. Q.. Was Dr. Vidone a CTR grantee? A. Not that I know of. Q.. You were a member of the Scientific Advisory Board between 1967 and 1969? Is that correct? A. Yes. MR. HARTZELL: We have been over that about five times. A. Yes, but memory may be incomplete that far back. MR. HARTZELL: Your question, counsel just so I understand, your question is about a 1981 article co-authored and you are asking if one of the men on that was a grantee of the Scientific Advisory Board 15 years before, 14 years before. Is that what you are asking? MR. EDELL: You didn't understand the waga and spinelii certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathfield Avenue Wst Onny., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN 015065

Sommers - direct 249 i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 'question. If so, you can object to the form of it. I MR. HARTZELL: It's ridiculous. Form? Nothing bad with the form. It's the substance. Q. Do you recall Dr. Little testifying as an expert in any matter, sir? A. If he did so, it either must have been before I joined the CTR or I have no memory of it. Q. You never discussed that matter with him or with anyone else, the fact that he testified as an expert? A. Not that I remember. Q. Dr. Sommers, some of the materials which you were kind enough to provide us yesterday have markings on them, "Background, file background." What does that mean? A. In background I keep tear sheets of publications either in the scientific or non-scientific literature, photocopies of news articles and other material that I can't categorize any better than that they have some relationship to science in the 20th century. Q. You went through that file to see what, if anything, was responsive to the subpoena in this matter? A. That file was reviewed for that purpose. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Notthfl.ld Av.nw W.st Or.nq., N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN OIE-3066

0 Sommers - direct 250 ~ 1 Q. By yourself? 2 A. No, I did not personally do it. It was done 3 by secretarial personnel and members of our 4 counsel. 5 Q. When you say secretarial personnel, 6 who specifically are you referring to? 7 A. That I know for sure. The individ ual is ~8 Lorraine Polli ce. 9 Q. Dr. Sommers, was there a re ason why 10 you didn't review the pathological slides of Dr. 11 Auerbach's smoking dogs study? 12 A. I was not given permission to. 13 Q. Do you recall Dr. Auerb ach inviting 14 you to review those slides? 15 A. Yes, when I was in Australia. 16 Q. When you came back, did you 17 communicate with Dr. Auerbach furthe r? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Why? 20 A. When I returned to the contine ntal United 21 States, I understood that permission had been 22 withdrawn. 23 Q. What was the source of that 24 information? 25 A. Mr. Hoyt. 405 Northfhld Awnu. waga and spineiii Wtst Otangs, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9688 C T R- H 14 0 1 Em J'O G'r"

> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 251 Q. Did Mr. Hoyt say he spoke wi th Dr. Auerbach? Did he receive a written communication from Dr. Auerbach? How did he come to the conclusion that the offer had been withdrawn? A. Because of the distance and the need to resort to cables and crossing the date line, I was not sure of the situation until I returned to the continental United States, and on return to work, I inquired of Mr. Hoyt whether I should proceed and was permitted to examine the microscopic slides. Mr. Hoyt replied that the situation was over with, that permission had been withdrawn. Q. How did Dr. Hoyt find out that you were invited to review Dr. Auerbach's slides? A. In part because I'd sent him a cable from Western Pacific in which I reported to him that I had responded to my understanding. Dr. Auerbach and Dr. Hammond had invited me to review the slides with a cable that said in part that I believe that additional people besides myself should be included in the review and this was sent to Mr. Hoyt. Q. You don't have a copy of that, do you, sir? Do you have a copy of the -- A. It's in the material submitted. waga and spineili certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthiiNd Av.nw W.st Onny.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 C! R t t F 'Z DIE-5068

0 Sommers - direct 252 1 Q. You do? 2 MR. HARTZELL: We produced that. 3 A. It was at the top of the pile and it was 4 previously referred to, I believe. 5 0. I apologize for not having seen this 6 previously. Did you ascertain whether or not Mr. 7 Hoyt contacted Dr. Auerbach? 1 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did you inquire of Dr. Auerbach 10 .whether in fact he was withdrawing his invitation 11 for you to review the slides? 12 A. No. 13 Q. The invitation to review the slides 14 had not been directed to Mr. Hoyt, had it? 15 A. No . 16 Q. It had been directed to you. Correct? 17 A. In my absence, the letter has been addressed 18 to me at the hospital: 19 Q. The invitation was directed to you. 20 C i orrect, s r? 21 A. The letter of invitation was addressed to me. 22 Q. Did it invite anyone other than you 23 to review the slides? 24 A. No. 25 Q. You did not communicate any further 405 Northfield Avenue l. waga and spinelli West Orange, N. J, 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9886 CTR I°IN 015-069

1 Sommers - di with Dr. Aue rect 253 rbach with regard to review of the 2 slid I that t? es. s correc 3 A. Beyond the cable which I sent from New 4 Zealand no , . 5 Q. When you got back to the United 6 States, you didn't write or call Dr. Auerbach and 7 ask him whether or not his invitation was still 8 open or not. Correct? 9 MR HARTZELL H t d th . : e jus answere e 10 ti ques on. 11 Q. Correct sir? , , 12 A. Yes, as already answered. 13 Q. The telegram that you referred to 14 previously that you sent to Mr. Hoyt had been 15 marked as Sommers Exhibit 4 for identification. 16 Correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you attend professional meetings 19 which Dr. Auerbach or Dr. Ha mmond also attended? 20 A. Over the period 1966 t o -- 21 MR. HARTZELL: January 1, '82. 22 A. Yes, meetings where Dr . Hammond was present 23 but not Dr. Auerbach, meetin gs where Dr. Auerbach 24 was present but not Dr. Hamm ond, and if they were 25 both present at a medical or scientific meeting waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nath(iNd Avanu• Wast Oranya. N. J. 07052 201•731-9666 CT ~ HN 01'50f='0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 , , 24 25 r 0 Sommers - direct 254 ~ i together, I don't remember. I i Q. Did you ever attend such meetings subsequent to June of 1970? A. I attended a medical meeting at least once thereafter with Dr. Auerbach. Q. And you never asked him about your review of the slides during that occasion. Is that correct? A. Correct. Q. You wrote a letter, did you not, in regard to the subject of your invitation from Dr. Auerbach to review his slides. Correct? MR. HARTZELL: Do you have a particular letter you want to show him? A. As asked -- Q. Let me see if I can rephrase it, sir. Do you recall drafting a letter in February of 1971 to the editor of the Washington Post? A. Yes, I do, and it was my mistake, it was the Washington Star in which the letter was hoped to be published and that's already been considered and I've answered questions about that. Q. That was a letter from you to the editor of February 23, 1971? MR. HARTZELL: We went over this 405 NoathlNld Awnu. s waga and spinelli VWst Oran9a, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9868 CTR ltl~t 015l.,t•t~1

Sommers - direct 255 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yesterday. MR. EDELL: We did not go over this yesterday. MR. HARTZELL: Today. MR. EDELL: We spoke generally but we didn't discuss the date of the letter or the specifics. MR. HARTZELL: Which is the letter? Did we produce the letter? Just show him the letter. A. It's part of the material supplied. In answer to your question again, yes, and then it was no.t published. MR. EDELL: Would you mark them, please. (Sommers Exhibits 16, 17, 18 and 19 marked for identification.) Q. Dr. Sommers, I show you what has been marked Sommers Exhibit 16 for identification. It appears to be a note of February 20, 1971 from you to Leonard Zahn. It was received 2/23. Attached to it is a letter from you of February 20, 1971 which appears to be in your handwriting. Do you recognize these documents, sir? A. (Examining documents.) I don't recognize waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthfiNd Awnue W*tt orenye, N. J. 07052 201•731-9866 C TR HN 0 1 E-tio. { 2

0 Sommers - direct 256 1 the documents but they are in my hand wr i ting and I 2 believe them to be my documents. 3 Q. You don't recall writing t h is letter? 4 Is that what you are saying? 5 A. Yes, I recall writing the lette r b ut the 6 place from which I wrote it, the date o n which I 7 wrote it I do not recall. 18 Q. You recognize it to be y ou r 9 handwriting, though? 10 MR. HARTZELL: He said s o . 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Is there any mention in t hi s let•ter, 13 sir, of the fact that Dr. Auerbach's o ff er to you 14 to review his pathological slides con c er ning the 15 smoking dogs study was withdrawn at a n y time? 16 A. Well, the first sentence of the l etter 17 states, "May I correct the statement f r om (local 18 Cancer Society) officials that by my n o t 19 personally reviewing the Auerbach sm ok i ng dog 20 material, in some way the claims mad e a re " 21 supported. 22 Q. Can you answer the ques ti o n, sir? 23j. MR. HARTZELL: The letter speaks 24 itself. 25; MR. EDELL: Are you going to direct I 405 NathflWd Awnu. waga and spinelli MNst oran9e, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 certified shorthand reporters E... 1 R E E!''1 015073

1 : , 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~ 18 19 20 R 21 22 23 24 25 9 L' Sommers - direct 257 him not to answer the question? MR. HARTZELL: Yes, I will direct him not to answer the question. You can read the letter and we can read the letter. Q. Dr. Sommers, I will show you Sommers Exhibit 17 and 18 for identification. Could you tell us what they are, sir? A. Number 17 has a photocopy on the stationery of CTR addressed to the editor of the Washington Star. "Dear Sir" -- MR. HARTZELL: You don't have to read it. A. It has a typed signature of myself. . ~ Q. Is it your handwriting on the I document? A. No. Q. This is not your signature on Sommers Exhibit 17. Is that correct? A. Yes. It also is indicated by slash with someone's initial. Q. Do you know whose initial that is? A. It's illegible and, therefore, I can't tell. Q. Did you ever have a secretary or someone who did your typing with the initials EK? MR. HARTZELL: You mean at that time? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthllNd Avenue West Oranps, N. J. 07052 201•731•9866 CTR HN 0 1 E3074

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 Sommers - direct 258 MR. EDELL: At that time. A. I can't remember. Q. Do you recall receiving Mr. Zahn's letter of February 24, 1971? MR. HARTZELL: That's Exhibit 18? MR. EDELL: Exhibit 18. A. No, I don't recall it but the letter is responsive to the exhibits number 16 and 17. Q. That shows a carbon copy going to Mr. Hoyt with enclosures.. Is that correct? A. ' Yeq. Q. In regard to Exhibit 17, is there any reference to Dr. Auerbach having withdrawn his offer to you to examine the pathological slides of the smoking dogs study? A. Same substantive first sentence of the letter as in my handwritten letter, Sommers Exhibit 16. Q. Was it a significant fact that Dr. Auerbach had withdrawn his offer to permit you to examine his pathological slides? A. Significant in_.what respect? 0. In the context of your responding to allegations that you had not reviewed the slides and that there was some significance to your not ) l. 405 NorthfNld Avwnu. waga and spinelli West Onny., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9866 CT~ HN OVEJOT"'S

Sommers - direct 259 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 24 25 having reviewed those slides. A. In ordinary medical and scientific and pathologic research and potential publication, it has usually been an open society for anyone respectable wishing to look at any material. Especially pathologic material is al lowed . Q. I show you what has been marked Sommers Exhibit 19 for identification. Do you recognize the document? A. I have seen it as part of the material collected by counsel and submitted in response to the subpoena. Q. You had been shown these documents prior to today',s deposition? MR. HARTZELL: He already testified he looked at what we submitted to you in the subpoena. A. Mr. Edell, I think one of your very first questions was did I know that material was being submitted and had I looked at it. My response was yes. Q. You have to bear with me, sir. I was 231 just given those documents that you produced for the subpoena yesterday. I am working from a copy which apparently did not come from your file but waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northti.Id Awnu. Woft Onnyo, N. J. 07052 201•731•9588 E1 TR ! F N 0150•f`~ G

4 5 6 7 tl 0 Sommers - direct 260 in fact came from Leonard Zahn's file. I believe that's the one that was marked for identification. MR. HARTZELL: Well, all we can -- look, whether you got one Xerox copy of the document or another isn't material to us. MR. EDELL: We can compare it at a later point in time. Q. The letter to the editor from -- 91 MR. HARTZELL: Let me just make it I 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 clear. We produced this document. You have a different copy of the same document that you tell us came from Zahn's file. That's fine. But in terms of Dr. Sommers' response, he looked at the documents that were being produced in response to i i the subpoena. If you hand him another copy here ~ and he says I looked at it and then you say Oh, I 171 that came from Zahn's file, that's unintentionally i 18 19 so but nevertheless it's a bit tricky. MR. EDELL: I thought I explained 20 myself before on the record. You didn't hear it? 21 MR. HARTZELL: I personally didn't 22~ understand your explanation and I'm not implying 231 there's any trick to it. I'm not implying that or 24 25 suggesting it. I know there wasn't. I want to say that what he testified about is completely 405 NoathtLld Avenue waga and spinelli West Okanye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 certified shorthand reporters I ~, ~~ R ~`"~ ~``~ 0~. ,._.c" (~ ~c~ i~'

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 f :'. , 2 4 ~ 25 Sommers - direct 261 ~ accurate as far as the documents are concerned. ~ ~ The copy he produced has file background on it. ~ i It has his signed name because that's his copy but we are talking about the same documents. MR. EDELL: Are you finished, counsel? MR. HARTZELL: Yes. Q. Do you see the attached letter to the editor from Mr. Kloepfer? A Yes . . Q. Does that make any reference to the fact that Dr. Auerbach withdrew his offer to you to review the pathological slides from the smoking dogs study? A. (Examining document.) In this respect, following a quotation from the telegram or cable sent by me to Dr. Auerbach, which is already in the record, there is a subhead "never responded" and the next sentence after that states, "The researchers never responded to him." That means me . Q. Are you finish ed? i A Yes I . . MR. EDELL: Wo uld you mark these for ; i I identification, please. (Sommers Exhib its 20 and 21 marked j . C, 405 Noathfisld Avanw waga and spinefli West Oranye, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR MN O1E-jO7e

0 Sommers - direct 262 1 for identification.) 2 Q. Dr. Sommers, do you recall in 3 I December of 1970 either Mr. Zahn or someone else 4 requesting that you prepare a listing as reflected 5 in paragraph five of the first document which was 6 marked as Sommers Exhibit 20? 7 A No I . . 8~ Q. Do you know Jim B owling? ~ I 9 A. Yes. 10 l Q. Did you know Paul .Smith at that time? 11 A Y . es. 12 Q. You knew Holt zman at that time and 13 you knew Mr. Hardy at that tim e?. 14 A Yes . . 15 Q. Did you know Char lie Wade at that 16 ? ti I ! me 17 A. Not that I recall. 18 Q. Did you know Brooks George? 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. Bill Ruder? 21 A. I believe not. 22 ! Q. You knew Addison Yeaman at that time? 23 i ! A Y es. . 24 1 Q. Do you recall Dave Hardy asking you 25 for your observations concerning Dr. Hammond's 405 Noathfi.ld Avenue waga and spineiii West 0ru+p., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 01507'"S'

Somrners - direct 263 10) Dr. Hammond, Auerbach," et cetera, so again in 11 effec~~ hg has expressed an interest. 12 Q. What, if any, relationship did you 13 i have with Mr. Hardy at that time? 14~ A. Well, subsequent to the Weaver trial, which 15; was and•perhaps remained under appeal, he 16 expressed interest in the Auerbach studies if and 17! when they were published. 18: Q. You, recalling that interest, 19 prepared this memorandum. Is that correct? 20! A. That's my best recollection. 21 Q. Is there any reference in this 22 document which we marked as Sommers Exhibit 21 for 231 identification in which you relate your 24 observations concerning the articles and in fact h 25 1 talk about the microscopic review on the third , ~ waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 1 article? 2i A. No, I just don't remember. ; 3i Q. Take a look at Sommers Exhibit 21 for 4; identification and see if that refreshes your I 51 recollection. 6 7 A. Yes. I have already seen this. The memorandum is to Mr. David Hardy from me and it E: begins with the sentence, "You were interested to 9; know my observations concerning the articles by I - 405 NorthflNd Av.nu. W.st Or.ny., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR E F f''! 0.t 5tro BO

Sommers - direct 264 1 page of the document that Dr. Auerbach had 2 withdrawn his offer to have you review the i 31 pathological slides? 4 1 MR. HARTZELL: Cou ld I ask the 5 question be read back? 6 MR. EDELL: I'm su re if Mr . Hartzell 7 is asking the question to be re ad back, it's unclear ;8i and I will try to rephrase it. Q. Does Sommers 21 fo r identification 10 reflect that Dr. Auerbach withdrew his offer to 11 you to review the pathological slides from the 12 smoking dogs study? 13 A. Literally, no. 14 Q. On the third page it indicates, "One 15 would like to review the actual material." That 16 1 was why you qualified your statement. Correct, 17 i sir? 18 ; A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you ever write or contact Dr. 20 Auerbach subsequent to your preparation of this 21 I report in regard to your desire to review that 22 t i l? , ma er a 23 ~ A. Already answered, no. 24 Q I it t th b tt i f r•~ :; 25 . Exhibit 21? s your s gna ure on e o om o 4 405 Nathti.Id Av.nw waga and spinelli Wett Oranq., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731-9888 C`~R ~N 015081

Sommers - direct 265 j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A. Yes. MR. EDELL: Mark that, please. (Sommers Exhibit 22 marked for identification.) Q. Would you identify Sommers Exhibit 22 for identification? A. This is a photocopy of something on the Council for Tobacco Research stationery, December 30, 1970, a memo to Mr. David Hardy from me. Q. Do you recall when you prepared this memo, sir? A. At the end of the same month as Sommers Exhibit 21. Q. This is dated December 30. The other one is December 4. Is that correct, sir? A. Yes. 171 Q. What was the purpose of preparing 18 19 20 this document, Sommers Exhibit 22 for identification? A. It's a supplemental critique of the 21 experimental design and the choice of animals and 22 the number of controls and other matters reported 231 in the article, Archives of Environmental Health, 24I 1970, volume 21, page 740. 25 Q. Do you recall preparing that document? 'A(- waga and spinelli 405 NortMidd Awnue certified shorthand reporters 0~1 731~9888N. J. 07052 i CTR HIN 0 1 EtO82

0 0 L 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 .8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Sommers - direct 266 i A. No, I don't recall, but it is signed with my signature. Q. Does your review of that document refresh your recollection in any way about having prepared the document? A. I didn't understand the last phrase. About preparing the document? Q. Yes. A. (Examining document.) (Sommers Exhibit 23 and 24 marked for identification.) A. I am convinced that I prepared this. Q. Dr. Sommers, by this, you are referring to which document? A. Sommers Exhibit 22. Q. I show you what has been marked Sommers Exhibit 24 for identification. MR. HARTZELL: You are skipping 23 for the moment? MR. EDELL: Yes, for the moment. Q. Do you recognize that handwriting, sir? 23 1 A. No. 24 25 Q. I show you what has been marked Sommers Exhibit 23 for identification. Do you waga and spineili certified shorthand reporters 405 Northflald Awnue M/.st or.ny•, N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 CTR HN 015083

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 k8 9 10 11 12 -Z;:- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 267 recognize that document? A. I don't immediately recall it. If you permit me to read through it. Q. Sure. (Sommers Exhibit 25 marked for identification.) A. I'm convinced I prepared it. Q. What was the purpose of preparing that document? A. Because of the widespread publicity aroused by the claims and subsequent publications of Auerbach, Hammond, et al. concerning the importance of inhalation experiments of animals using cigarette smoke as a method to produce various lesions, including lung carcinoma, and as research director, it would be part of my responsibility to explain to anyone interested what would be involved so that we might avoid the shortcomings, defects of previous studies in the literature. I believe that was the purpose. Q. Did Drs. Auerbach and Hammond ever submit a grant proposal to the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Not that I know of. Q. Did anyone submit a grant proposal in waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Noathfi.ld Av.nu. West Oran9a, N. J. 07052 201•731•9688 CTR- MN 015064

Sommers - direct 268 1 an attempt to duplicate Drs. Hammond and Auerbach's 2 stud ? y 3 A. To the Council for Tobacco Research? 4 Q. Yes, that's correct. 5 A. Using tracheotomized beagles, no. 6 Q. Did the scientific director 7 participate in the Scientific Advisory Board's 8 decision-making process as to whether a particular 9 grant a.pplication should or should not be awarded? 10 A. During what time frame ? 11 . , 1971. 12 A. There was at that time , I believe, no active 13 scientific director present, Dr. Little being 14 elderly and infirm. 15 Q. Was the researc h director at that 16 time Dr. Hockett? 17 A. No. It was I. 18 Q. I'm sorry? 19 A. No. It was I. 20 Q. What was Dr. Ho ckett's position in 21 1971? 22 A. I don't remember what he was called in '69 23 to '71. I would have to be reminded. 24 Q. Was he on the S cientific Advisory 25 Board? S~ waga and spinelli 405 NathtNld Avenue West 1•731 ggggN. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 0 CTR HN 015085

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 ~.~:. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,-_.. 24 25 405 Northfl.ld Avanw West Oran9., N. J. 07052 201-731-9806 I Sommers - direct 269 A. No. Dr. Hockett that I know of n ever served on the Scientific Advisory Board. Q. Did he participate in the decision-making process as to whether o r not a grant should or should not be accepted by the Council for Tobacco Research? A. During his whole period of servic e, he answered questions and on request, prov ided scientific advice. So far as I can rem ember, he did not participate in the function of deciding approval, disapproval or funding of a g rant. Q. Is Sommers Exhibit 25 for identification an example of his giving advice with respect to.a particular grant prop osal such as ou just describedl y A. (Examining document.) I believe so. MR. EDELL: We may as well stop here if you want to stop for lunch. MR. HARTZELL: Yes, it's a good idea. (Luncheon recess.) waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters L, 1 R E E t`t 015086

r 0 h) 1 3 4 5 6 7 ,8 9 10 11 12 . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Sommers - direct 270 A F T E R N 0 0 N S E S S I 0 N 2 Q. Dr. Sommers, you identified Sommers Exhibit 25 for identification for us. Can you tell us which proposal that document refers to? A. I don't know if it was an inquiry, an informal proposal, a formal proposal or none of the above. Q. Is there a caption to that? Is there a subject matter of that? A. Yes. Why the proposed study cannot produce meaningful results. Q. You have no idea what proposed study that document references? A. No, I don't remember. Q. Did Dr. Little make recommendations with regard to whether a grant application should be favorably passed upon by the Scientific Advisory Board or rejected for that matter? A. During the period that I have been on the Scientific Advisory Board since 1966 and during the time Dr. Little was still there as scientific director, he was also a member of the Scientific Advisory Board. Therefore, he had the same rights of discussion, of critique, advice as an 25; individual to approve or disapprove and comments waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfield Avenue West Orenqe, N. J. 07052 201•731-9888 E• iR E E F'°i 015087

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Sommers - direct 271 about the budget as any other member of the Scientific Advisory Board. Q. So he acted in a dual capacity both as scientific director of the Council for Tobacco Research as well as a member of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. Yes. MR. EDELL: Would you mark this as Exhibit 26, please. (Sommers Exhibit 26 marked for identification.) Q. Dr. Sommers, can you tell us what Sommers Exhibit 26 for identification is? A. Yes. This is a photocopy on the CTR stationery dated April 14, 1971. It has the citation No. 826-Dawber, a memo from me to Drs. Jacobson, Little and Loosli. What it represents is one of many critiques that I have written over the years in respect to specific research applications under consideration. Q. What is the Framingham material that'--s referenced in this document? A. The Framingham study was a community undertaking involving physical examinations, chemical tests 25 and other historical data from male and female waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North(feld Awnu. W.:t Oranpe, N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 4 t +~. t i i~ 0.~ ~086

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 272 inhabitants of a town in Massschusetts called Framingham, Massachusetts and it went on for a number of years, maybe 20, and the study finally would no longer be supported by the government for reasons I don't know and there were appeals made to other organizations to continue the follow-up. Q. Did there come a point in time when the Council for Tobacco Research took the position that it would instruct possible grantees as to what it wanted from them? Oh, no, except that it was hoped that the A. money would be properly expended, the research would result, and that it would be presented to medical or scientific groups and published in the ordinary manner. Q. What's the difference between contract and grant? A. In the CTR context, a grant is essentially a gift to an institution or organization on behalf of a principal investigator, and under those circumstances if the principal investigator finds a better project, a preferable one, he or she may undertake different research than was originally applied for and funded. The contract is a formal document waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northlidd Awnue Vlhtt Oranpe, N. J. 07052 201-731•9666 t._r TR t i N 015ti.,.fi B9

f 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Sommers - direct 273 most often with a commercial scientific organization or a company that might supply equipment, materials, which sets forth within the contract under what conditions the parties will, A, do something or other, and B, pay for it, what reports are necessary, how the money will be provided on a quarterly basis, et cetera. 4- Did the Council for Tobacco Research fund any contract work? A. Yes. : Q. ~ 12 A. Yes . 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Can you tell us what that work was? If there aren't that many such grants. MR. HARTZELL: Again, we are dealing up to January 1, 1982, right? MR. EDELL: Yes. A. I don't know that I can remember every one but I can tell you all I remember. For the manufacture and storage of smoking machines; for the testing by biophysical methods of smoking machines, that second one at Oak Ridge; for the preparation and storage under appropriate conditions of several typ9s of reference cigarettes; for the investigation and comparison oaf different models of Walton, that's the name, waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMiNd Awnw WWst Oanye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9668 CTR HN 01509 0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 I8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 0 Sommers - direct 274 W-a-l-t-o-n, smoking machines; for the Microbiological Associates, Inc. studies that have already been referred to, I believe, and for certain spin-off special activities either within or outside of the laboratories of MAI. Q. What's MAI? A. Microbiological Associates, Inc. Q. What's that entity? A. It's a Bethesda, Maryland commercial biomedical research and service organization which will sell vaccines to protect animals against animal viruses, which will provide tissue cultures of specific 'types, will undertake use of tissue cultures to study a variety of materials that someone might be interested in, and in the case of CTR, to undertake a smoking experiment of long duration. Q. Why did the Council for Tobacco Research prefer grant applications as opposed to contract applications? A. During most of the course of biomedical 21 research in the United States, either under 22 government.auspices or under the auspices of 1 23 different independent organizations or private 24I charities, grants have been the preferred method 251 of funding research, and so it has an historical 405 NorthflNd Avenue waga and spinelli West Orange, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9666 CTR HN 015091

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 275 basis of being the usual conventional method. I believe that the original reasons involved intellectual freedom. A. Q. Why is that important? Biomedical research performed under circumstances where the investigator is either not allowed to present his or her findings or to publish them or where the granting organization restricts the type of information that can be conveyed to the scientific public or otherwise interferes by regulation, contractual agreement or other methods, including political influence, just makes it either very difficult or impossible to do what most American scientists regard as worthwhile biomedical research. Q. With regard to Dr. Homburger, do you recall Dr. Gardner suggesting that the Council for Tobacco Research should allow him to report his findings but that it should try to bring about a scientifically reasonable interpretation of those findings? A. I don't remember it but it's a reasonable statement for Dr. Gardner to have made under a contract. Q. Was it contract work that Dr. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North}kId Awnu. VWst Oran9., N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 V t R H~~ ti~ 1~092

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Sommers - direct 276 Homburger was doing for the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Since this was a commercial laboratory, my memory is that most of the money that was provided to the organization was under contracts. Q. When you say money provided to that organization, are you referring to money provided by the Council for Tobacco Research to that organization? A. Yes . Q. Dr. Sommers, do you recall an article which appeared in the American Druggist under your authorship? A. Yes. Q. Did you prepare that article? A. It was prepared by Mr. Zahn, using material 171 extracted from my most recent Congressional 1 18 statement. 19 Q. Did you review any documents 201 pertinent to this subject prior to this deposition? 21 A. Yes. 22~ Q. Are they part of the materials that i 23! were brought by you to this deposition? 24 25 A. I don't remember. Q. Do you recall when you reviewed waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfield Avenue West oranye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 Lr t R HN WR 1509.rb

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 i8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 277 materials? A. Within the last two or three weeks. Q. Do you recall reviewing materials which reflected that ,Tanet Brown reviewed the article prior to its publication? A. No. Q. Do you recall the title of the article? A. The title of the article which the editor insisted on despite representations that it wrong is "In Defense of Smoking." Q. What was the name of the actual article that you submitted? A. wa s I don't remember specifically. MR. EDELL: Mark this, please. (Sommers Exhibit 27 marked for identification.) Q. Does your review of Sommers Exhibit 27 refresh your recollection with regard to the title of the paper as submitted by you? A. You would like me to identify what it is? MR. HARTZELL: Just does it refresh your recollection as to the title. A. No, it doesn't. Q. You reviewed the title of the paper waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North/i.Id Awnu. W.st Ohany., N. J. 07052 201•731•9868 L, TR! ! t't Ot EjO9"Y

2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Sommers - direct 278 ~ which was submitted by W. T. Hoyt to Stanley C. ~ I Gelman on the second page of the document, Smoking and Health: Many Unanswered Questions, Great Gaps in Knowledge? A. I reviewed it, yes. Q. That doesn't refresh your memory as to the title of the document? I A. It's over 15 years'ago. No. ~ Q. Dr. Sommers, you believe the term I "gap" is inaccurate, inappropriate and misleading. Isn't thpt correct? A. Well, between two front teeth, it is a perfectly appropriate statement. Q. In the context of medical articles, sir, or•scien'tific articles. A. As phrased, I can't answer the question. Q. Why can't you answer the question? MR. HARTZELL: I object and instruct the witness not to answer the question. MR. EDELL: Why? MR. HARTZELL: Because the question is unintelligible. 231 0. Dr. Sommers, did you ever express the 24 following: "The term 'gap' is inaccurate, inappropriatE 25 and misleading if you look in the dictionary and I ~ waga and spinelli 405 Nathtield Avenu• W.st oan9., N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731-9888 CTR HIN 0 15095

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Sommers - direct 279 am not going to employ it any further in this program"? MR. HARTZELL: Did he ever say that in his lifetime up to January 1, 1982? Is this your question? MR. EDELL: I don't understand the MR. HARTZELL: I don't understand the MR. EDELL: You don't understand the MR. HARTZELL: I'm asking if that's your question. Did you ever say that prior to January 1, 1982? A. My answer is I don't remember saying that 161 but if provided the document which would allow me 171 to view the context and the situation, then I 181 perhaps I could answer the question better. 19 20 21 22 Q. Certainly. MR. EDELL: Mark this, please. (Sommers Exhibit 28 marked for identification.) 231 Q. Look at Sommers Exhibit 28 for 24 25 identification. It's-a letter from you to Thomas Hoyt of August 29, 1968 with the Council for waga and spinelli 405 NonhfiNd Avenue West Orsnp.. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 i I CTR HN 015096

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 280 Tobacco Research designation HK 0888070. It looks like it's signed by you. Is that your signature on the document? A. No. It's my middle name. Q. Is that your handwriting, sir? A. Yes. Q. What does it say? A. Charlie. Q. You go by the name of Charlie to people that you are on a first-name basis with? A. Mostly, yes. 0. Did you write Charlie on this particular document, sir?' A. It's my handwriting.. Q. I refer you to the third paragraph, sir. Will you please tell us how you use the term A. Let me read the whole -- Q. Let me ask you the the question and then maybe it will help you in reading the document. Will you please tell us what you meant by the term "gap" as it appears in the third paragraph of Sommers Exhibit 28 for identification. A. I would prefer to read the whole document. Q. Of cour se . MR. HARTZELL: Read the whole <<= waga and spinelli 1Nat O~y~N. Avenue J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 t CTR HN 01 EE-3097 '

0 Sommers - direct 281 document. L 2 3 4 5 6 7 `8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. It's addressed to Mr. Thomas Hoyt. Q. You don't have to read it aloud. You can read it to yourself. MR. HARTZELL: Yes, no reason to read it out loud. A. (Examining document.) MR. HARTZELL: The question is what did he mean by gap in the third paragraph of Exhibit 28? MR. EDELL: Correct. Q. Were you talking about teeth, sir? MR. HARTZELL: Let him answer the question. A. I could be. Q. You don't remember? A. However, I'm not. Let's see. I will read the whole paragraph into the record. Q. It's part of the record. All you have to do is tell me what you mean by the word ngap. n MR. HARTZELL: He can answer it any way he wants. MR. EDELL: Then I will ask the question again after he reads it into the record. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathti.Id Awnu. VWst Ok.nq., N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN t~1~098

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 282 A. I do believe that as a witness, I'm permitted to read a paragraph into the record and I I will do so. i l MR. HARTZELL: Go right ahead. ~ A. Last paragraph, "As to the deficiencies in present knowledge, I must look at my own reports and think for a while. The term "gap" is inaccurate, inappropriate and misleading, if look in the dictionary, and I'm not going to you employ it any further in this program. Using words that do not convey an accurate meaning is a governmental habit that has gotten us all in trouble. Best wishes." Q. The question, sir, is what did you mean by the term "gap" in the third paragraph of Sommers Exhibit 28 for identification? A. The word "gap," not being my word, must have been included in something that I read in preparing what I call attached four short skeletal journalistic essays. Q. What was the subject of your essays? A. I don't remember. Q. Your review of the rest of the sentence doesn't help where it says on the present status of various fields in smoking and health? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NoathliNd Av.nu. MNst Or.n9., N. J. 07052 201•731-9688 CTR HIN 0 15099

405 North}idd Avenue West Orsnqs, N. J. 07052 201-731-9866 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ~,. ;~ . 24 25 Sommers - direct . 283 i ~ A. That's correct. If you will, Mr. Edell, I i wanted to read into the record the entir lett j e er i i and I was prevented. Q. It' s part of the record, si r. So there's no misunderstanding, that document is part of the record. All I want to do it find out in what context you used the word "gap." A. I don't know unless you would provide me with the attached four short skeletal journalistic essays. I don't have them. Do you recall the essays pertaining to the issue of smoking and health, sir? A. This was in 1968 and the answer is no. Q: Do you recall the Council for Tobacco Research using the phrase "gap in knowledge" in regard to the issue of cigarette smoking and health subsequent to 1968? A. Yes. Mr. Yeman liked the term. Q. Did you tell Mr . Yeman that you thought that it was an inaccurate, inappropriate and misleading term? MR. PARRISH: Object to the form of the question. A. I did not think it was my responsibility to waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR HN 015100

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 405 NaMflNd Av.nu. VWst Crnn9., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 0 Sommers - direct 284 ~ ( instruct Mr. Yeman in the use of the English ~ lan I ~ guage. i Q. You felt that the use of it in the context of publications by the Council for Tobacco Research would be inaccurat e, improper and misleadingi Is that o t? ( c rrec MR. HARTZELL: I direct him not to I answer the question. MR. EDELL: On what basis? MR. HARTZELL: You just don't like the question. You are afraid of the answer. MR. HARTZELL: The question is meaningless under any circumstances but the point is he told you he didn't instruct Mr. Yeman so now you are arguing with him, trying to imply that well, he should so have instructed Mr . Yeman. it doesn't make any difference to anybod y about anything and I'm not going to have yo u arguing with him. He said h e didn't. Q. Was Mr. Yeman associated with the Council for T obacco Research in 1968, sir? A. Only as counsel for one of the donors. Q. Were there publications in 1968 which used the phrase "gaps in knowledge"? A. Governmental publications, yes, and for some waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR l l('"t 015101

O 1 Sommers - direct years thereafter. 285 2 Q. Were there publications from the 3 Council for Tobacco Research which used that 4 ase? h p r 5 A. That I don't remember. 6 Q. Do you recall there being letters 7 critical of your article which appeared in the 8 American Druggist provided to the editor of that 9 publication? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you recall there being an attem pt 12 by the public relations counsel, Leonard Zahn, to 13 stimulate letters from physicians approving your 14 article in the American Druggist? 15 A No . . 16 Q. Do you know whether that was part of 17 Mr. Zahn's responsibilities back in 1970? ~ 18 A. No. 19 (Sommers Exhibit 29 marked for 20 id tifi ti en ca on.) 21 Q. Take a look at Sommers Exhibit 29 for 22 identification. It's a letter from Leonard Zahn 23 to William Kloepfer, v ice-president, public 24 relations of the Tobacco Institute dated September 25 28, 1970. I want you to read the entire document. ~~ waga and spinelli 405 NorthffNd Avenu. West 1-73~1,9655N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 0 CTR HN 015102"'

0 Sommers - direct 286 I 1 A. You do or do not? ~ 2 Q. I do want you to read t he entire 3 document to determine whether or not this might 4 refresh your recollection with regar d to there 5 being an attempt by Mr. Zahn to see if letters 6 could be stimulated from physicians generally 7 approving your article. ~ ~ 8 MR. PARRISH: Is that a question? s Y EDELL MR 9 . e : . 10 MR. PARRISH: Then I obj ect to its 11 f orm. 12 MR. HARTZELL: You can answer. 13 A. Exhibit 29 is dated September 28, 1970. It 14 is addressed to Mr. William Kloepfer 15 vice-president, public relations, To bacco ~ 16 Institute, and the address. "Dear B ill: I am 17 trying to work out with the editor-i n-chief of ; 18 American Druggist some way whereby I can reprint 19 Dr. Sommers' article without the phr ase 'In 20 Defense Of Cigarettes.' The Druggis t fellow 21 seemed somewhat chagrinned the other day when I 22 talked with him. He used 'journalis tic license,' 23 he said, but seemed sympathetic to m y point of ~. 24 view." 25 MR. HARTZELL: If I cou ld just ~~ waga and spinelli 405 NathiNld Avenue certified shorthand reporters 2oi i~i~s866N. J. 07052 I CTR NN 015103

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 287 interrupt you, I think the only question is whether you remember. MR. EDELL: Maybe he will be more responsive if you ask the question, Mr. Hartzell. A. You asked me to read the whole letter and I'm going to read it. "The journal" -- Q. I d idn' t mean to -- A. -- "I was told already has received several 'highly critical' letters which will appear in a future issue. I'd like to ask if you, through the ad hoc group.perhaps, could stimulate letters from physicians generally approving the article and pointing out how clearly it hits at the nature of the controversy -- or whatever. I know the magazine would be pleased to get such letters from doctors. If an effort is to be made in this area, it should be done as quickly as possible. I'll keep you informed of any progress with the reprints. Meanwhile, I look forward to seeing the proposed layout for Derus. Frankly, though, I'm turning away from that idea. Sincerely, Leonard S. Zahn." Answer no. Q. You won't tell us who received carbon copies? A. If you wish me to. At the bottom there is ~~ waga and spinelli 405 Nathfi.Id Awnu. certified shorthand reporters 01•731~9886N. J. 07052 CTR 'IN 0 1 E51 04

Sommers - direct 288 1 typed capitals, LSZ/hg, copies Henry Ramm, W. T. YV V 2 Hoyt. 3 Q. Getting back to my ques tion, sir, now 4 that you reviewed the entire documen t, does it 5 refresh your recollection with regar d to Mr. 6 Zahn's attempting to stimulate lette rs supportive 7 of your article which appeared in th e American 1 i 8 st? Drugg 9 MR. PARRISH: Objection to the form of 10 the question. 11 A. Alread y answered. 12 Q. I don't remember you an swering the 13 ti on. . ques 14 MR. HARTZELL: He said no. 15 MR. PARRISH: He said no . 16 A. I said no. 17 MR. COHEN: Before the CC. 18 MR. EDELL:' Before the CC. I'm sorry. 19 Q. Do you know what the ad hoc legal 20 committee was of the American Tobacc o Institute? 2 1 A. No. 22 Q. Ad hoc committee, you n ever heard of 23 th t? a 24 A. That term I never heard before . 25 1 Q. Did you know that there was a I 405 Noathtieid Awnu. waga and spinelli Wat oranye. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201-731-9888 CZ R t N «15A «EJ

t . .' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 , 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 I 405 Northtleld Awnu. Wnt Or.nye, N. J. 07052 201-731-9885 I Sommers - direct 289 committee of attorneys of the member companies of the Tobacco Institut e that met on occasion to discuss certain matters? A. In 1970? Q. At any point in time did you become t? f th aware o a A. Was the word "Tobacc o Institute" included? Q. A. No, Q. Yes . I don' t. Are you aware of any group of attorneys from or representing tobacco companies which met on an as-needed basis to discuss certain matters? A. There has been something called committee of ns l cou e . Q. What is that, sir? A. I think it's the answer responsive t o your uestio q n. Q. What is your understanding of the committee of counsel? Tell me everything you know about it . A. At one time the chairman of it was Mr. Pebbles. The other members of it when they met and for what purpose and in what intervals and whom they advised, I don't know. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR HN 015106

J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 290 Q. Did you ever attend any meetings of that group? A. I met with Mr. Pebbles in the presence of some other lawyers but this was not a meeting of the committee of counsel. Q. Do you recall there being an attempt by a committee of attorneys to stimulate letters from physicians approving your article in the American Druggist? MR. PARRISH: Objection to the form of the question. A. You see, you have a kind of double-edged question here. I don't know anything about the ad hoc -- Q. I said any legal committee, sir. A. -- committee and I don't know that the committee of counsel existed in 1970 and I don't know what they did at any time. MR. EDELL: Would you mark this, please. (Sommers Exhibit 30 marked for identification.) Q. Please review Sommers Exhibit 30 for identification and see if it refreshes your memory with regard to the ad hoc legal committee waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathti.ld Av.nu. w.st Onn9., N. J. 07052 201-731-9666 CTR HN 01E.J'10'7

0 Sommers - direct 291 . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 I 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 attempting to stimulate letters supportive of your article which appeared in the American Druggist. A. The answer is no. Q. Dr. Sommers, what is the Joint Committee on Tobacco and Health or what was it? A. The government represented by the NIH with one of the secretaries of the sections together with the then Secretary of Health, I believe Mr. Finch, and the American Medical Association ERF supported the organization of a subcommittee including representatives of all three organizations to meet together and see if some agreement could be reached as to areas of either mutual or individual research in the field of smoking and health. i 16j Q. Was such a subcommittee formed? 17 i A. Yes. ; 18i Q. Were you on that subcommittee? 19 A. Yes. 20. Q. Who else was on that subcommittee? 21 22 A. Dr. Hockett was the other representative that I remember from the CTR. i . 231 Q. When was that formed? 24 25 A. I would have to be reminded by documents. A long time ago. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMlatd Av.nw Wast Oranpa. N. 107052 201•731•9888 Ci [`w. t tN 015108

0 2 3 4 5 6 7 `8 I 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 292 MR. EDELL: Could you mark this for identification, please. (Sommers Exhibit 31 marked for identification.) Q. Dr. Sommers, take a look at Sommers Exhibit 31 for identification. You can review the whole document, the entire document, but I think it would probably facilitate things if you took a look at page five of the document where it refers to designation of subcommittee. A. I'd best at least check through the whole document. Q. Okay. A. (Examining document.) Q. Does your review of the document refresh your recollection with regard to who was on the subcommittee of the Joint Committee on Tobacco and Health? A. It refreshes it in regard to several people. It is stated in this document that - Q. What page are you referring to? A. The page you requested me to A. refer to. Q. But you reviewed the entire document? •Yes . Q. Go ahead. waga and spineUi certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMNid Awnua Wst OManya. N. J. 07052 201•731•9886 CI R 11N DIE5109

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Sommers - direct 293 A. It states on page five that the representatives from the CTR SAB will be Dr. Jacobson, Dr. Loosli and myself. It does not mention Dr. Hockett except towards the end and I did remember before I read the document that Dr. Loosli was included. I also believe that if Dr. Jacobson could not be present, a substitute was allowed and that that may have been Dr. Hockett. Q. As we look down this list on page five, first let's talk about the National Institutqs of Health, the second person listed is a Paul Kotin, M.D. A. Yes. Q. He was on the Scientific Advisory Board for the Council for Tobacco Research from 1954 to 1965. Is that correct? 171 A. The dates I don't remember. He had left 18 19 20 21 22 before I joined in '66. Q. But you were aware that he was a member of the Scientific Advisory Board of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Had previously been, yes. 231 Q. Prior to 1968. Correct? 24) A. No. Prior to 1966. 251 Q. We know if we look at the Scientific waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NoRMNid Avwnu. Wat Orsnp.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9688 C T R In"I N 0 11,5110

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Sommers - direct 294 Advisory Board that Dr. Loosli had received $600,000 plus and you had received about $300,000 plus in grants from the Council for Tobacco Research. Correct? A. You may know that but I don't know that. Q. With regard to the Committee for Research on Tobacco and Health, AMA Education and Research Foundation, that's the American Medical Association. Correct, sir? No. Q. The AMA, doesn' t that refer to A. American Medical Association? A. Those initials refer to American Medical Association, yes. I didn't understand your question. 0. The first individual listed is Dr. Bing. Correct? A. Yes. Q. He at that time was he a member at that time of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. Yes. Q. Do you r_ecall Dr. Bing receiving over 231 $700,000 from the Council for Tobacco Research? 24 25 MR. NORTHRIP: Object to the form of the question. It's been established in prior ~~ waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North/idd Awnu. West 0rsn9e, N. J. 07052 201•731•9848 CTR F Il'"l OIE-3111

Sommers - direct 295 1 testimony that grants do not go to i nd iv iduals. , 2 MR. EDELL: They are li st ed by 3 individuals. That's all I can tell yo u from the 4 documents that we have been provided b y Council h 5 . for Tobacco Researc 6 MR. HARTZELL: The witn es s can't 7 remember all these figures. He does n' t know about , 8 them. You are just going over the s am e old thing. ~ 9 Q. Dr. Paul Larson, you're a w I are that he i ~ 10 received over half a million dollars i n grant 11 money from the Council for Tobacco R es e arch. 12 Isn't that correct, sir? 13 A. No. 14 Q. You don't remember that ? . 15 A. In respect to Dr. Bing and Dr. L a rson, I ~ 16 don't know how much money either rec ei v ed from the 17 1 CTR. 18 Q. You knew they were CTR gr a ntees, 19 though, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 MR. BALSAM: Mr. Edell, w e have gone 22 over this before. Each of these peo pl e , you've 23 already asked these people, the amou nt s that each 24 of them may have received from the C TR and the 25 witness already testified I think wi th respect to 405 NorthfNld Av.nu. waga and spinelli West Orsn9e. N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9688 CTR f !F "1 OI...i 1.4 2

405 NopthfNid Avenue YWst Oranye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9886 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ~ 24 25 Sommers - direct 296 each one of them that while he may have been aware that some of them were grantees, he had no recollection as to the or knowledge as of the present time of the amounts that they had received and I don' t se e any purpose of wasting all of your time in doing the questions over again . Q. Sir, did you attem pt to keep yourself apprised of the work that was being done by the American Medical Association Education and Research Foundation? A N . o. Q. You didn't read interim reports put out by that organizatio n? A. No. 0. You weren't consulted to make a i determination as to whether or not the studies being funded by that organization were studies pertinent to the issue of cigarette smoking and h lth? ea A. My advice was not solicited, no. Q. Did th e subcommittee continue to meet b 1 su sequent to 968? A. It had severa l meetings, but when the last one occurred, I don't remember. 0. During any of the meetings, did waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters L ^ ! Rt E!''t 011,3.! 13

1 , Sommers - direct 297 representatives from the AMA EFR advise you as to the types of studies it was funding? A. Yes. The direction that the activities of the subcommittee took after it was formed was to apportion out to different one or ones of the three groups particular areas of research to be reviewed and discussed with the whole subcommittee and it's my memory that the AMA EFR chose the field of cardiovascular disease. Q. During the period of time that you were with the Scientific Advisory Board of the Council for Tobacco Research, was there ever a reorientation of'the nature of the work of that organization? A. No. Q. Were there ever any discussions regarding reorientation of the direction of the Scientific Advisory Board? A. To be responsive, I can state that there was a time when it was felt that the program was too diffuse and should be "targeted." Q. When did that occur? A. When Mr. Addison Yeman had become a chief executive and president. Q. Did the program become more targeted? 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,. 2 4 25 waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NatMbld Avenue West Onnye, N. J. 07052 201•731•9655 CTR HN 015114

2 , 3 4 5 6 7 4 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ' 21 22 23 , 24 25 Sommers - direct 298 A. Only that contracts were initiated more than had previously been the case. Q. What was it that occurred when Mr. Yeman joined the Council for Tobacco Research which resulted in contracts being awarded more often than previous? MR. PARRISH: Objection to the form of the question. A. In a period when government research was being more closely targeted to practical end point's, phis under the direction of the officials of the then I believe Health, Education and Welfare or its predecessor, Mr. Yeman thought likewise the CTR program should be targeted and that money' should not be expended on studying bacteria and miscellaneous scientific subjects. Q. Did he express to you or did you become aware of his reasons for his feelings in that regard? A. He believed as apparently did also the government and some members of the Congress that provided the governmental research budget that it was a waste of some money to be investigating every possible biomedical situation of interest. Q. Did you agree or disagree with that waga and spineiii certified shorthand reporters 405 NatMINd Awnu. Wat oranq.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 015115

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 299 philosophy, sir? A. I don't like that philosophy and I disagreed. Q. Did you express that disagreement to Mr. Yeman? A. Yes. Q. In a written form? A. No, not that I remember. Q. What was his response? A. I don't remember. Q. Do you recall the substance of his response? He still believed that as the government did A. at that time, the targeted research was the best way to go. Q. Were you ever privy to any discussions concerning the impact of the research funded by the Council for Tobacco Research on legislative and regulatory matters? A. I don't understand the question. Q. What don't you understand about the question? MR. HARTZELL: Try to reframe it. MR. EDELL: I don't know how to reframe it unless he tells me what he doesn't understand. MR. HARTZELL: How can he tell me? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathfield Awnu. West Or.nye. N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 C: R HN 015116

Sommers - direct 300 1 He just doesn't understand it. 2 A. I don't understand any of it. 3 Q. You don't understand any of it? 4 A. I don't understand the question, sir. 5 Q• Was there ever any discussions with 6 respect to deriving the maximum return on the 7 industry's investment in the Council for Tobacco 1 8 Research? 9 A. That could be a paraphrase of Mr. Yeman's 10 idea about targeted research. Other than that, I 11 wouldn' t know. 12 Q. Did you discuss that subject with Mr. 13 Y ? eman 14 A. Alread y answered. 15 Q. Deriving the maximum investment from 16 the research? You had that discussion with him? 17 A. No, not in those terms but in terms that he 18 believed that research projects with practical end 19 points were the way to go and people not in 20 science use terms that medical and scientific 21 people don't usually use and that's the best I can 22 answer. 23 Q. Do you recall a committee being 24 formed to discuss suggested changes in the 25 objectives of the Council for Tobacco Research and 405 NorthtNld Avenu• waga and spinelli W.st Or.nya, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9555 CT ~ MN 01511*7

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2 4 25 Sommers - direct. 301 how those objectives should be accomplished? MR. PARRISH: Object to the form of the questions. Q. Sir. A. Yes, the entire Scientific Advisory Board was asked to compile individual lists of possible research projects in the field of smoking and health to be discussed at a meeting by the whole board wit h the administrative personnel including Mr. Yeman and this was do ne and a long, long list was presented. Q. In written f orm? A. In typewritten form . Q. Who was the author of that list? A. There was no author since it was a board production and there were no individuals identified responsible for any particular research i deas. Q. What was the title of the document? A. Essentially what you indicated in your question to me, that is, list of potential projects for CTR to fund. (Sommers Exh ibit 32 marked for i i i dent f cation.) Q. Dr. Sommers, is the document Sommers waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northileld Avenue West Oran~•, N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CTR HN 015116 i

Sommers - direct 302 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Exhibit 32 the document which you were just referring to? A. (Examining document.) This ten-plus-page document is what I remember. Q. To whom was this document submitted? A. For consideration of the entire Scientific Advisory Board and for the interest of Mr. Addison Yeman. Q. You told us that you recall a committee being formed to study the research program funded by the tobacco industry through CTR. Is that correct? A. No. You mentioned several committees and the one we last discussed was subcommittee of the Joint Committee on Smoking and Health which included in the subcommittee representatives of the National Institutes of Health, of the AMA EFR and of the CTR and if there's some other'committee you are talking about, please explain. Q. Do you recall a committee being formed by cigarette manufacturers to study the research programs funded by the tobacco industry through CTR and other independent projects? A. No. Q. Who is William W. Bates? waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 North({Nd Awnw VN.st Or.n9.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 015119

0 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 303 A. The only William Bates I know, Bill Bates, is a former Navy flyer whom I know only socially, and if there is some other Bates, I don't know of him. Q. Who is I. W. Hughes? A. Do you have any idea what the initials stand for? Q. I have no idea. A. I think without additional -- Q. All I can tell you is that the document,I'm referring to seems to reflect that he is associated with Brown & Williamson. A. Yes.. He was subsequently president'for a while of that same com pany. Q: Sirril Hetsko? A. No, I don't recall him. Q. R. Roemer? A. Yes. Roemer was I think at one time an employee of Reynolds Corp. A. Q. Clifford Goldsmith? Mr. Goldsmith was at one time chief executive of Philip Morris. Q. Curtis Judge? A. Mr. Judge was at one time president of another cigarette manufacturer and I just don't waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathtield Awnw 4Wtt Orenye, N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CT~ HN 015120

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 :z, 24 ;....~ t Y,,<=y ~ L 25 Sommers - direct 304 remember which. Q. Did you meet from time to time with the scientific directors for the various cigarette manufacturers? A. The term in the cigarette companies is usually "research director" and yes, I have met wi th them and they wi th me. Q. With whom did you meet? MR. NORTHRIP: What time frame are we talking about, Mr. Edell? MR. EDELL: Up to 1982. A. It's in most cases so long ago that I don't recall their names except for Mr. Hughes, who was at one time research director, and presently and back in 1981 Mr. Preston Leake. There are others and I just forget their names. Q. Do you recall meeting with the research director of any particular company as opposed to the name of the individual with whom you met? A. Yes, with the research director of Philip Morris. Q. When was that? A. In the recent past years, at the end of every budget year, the chairman, the president and waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NortMi.ld Awnw W.st Orany.. N. J. 07052 201•731•9888 CTR HN 015-512-1

% L, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 305 I have gone around to individual donors in their offices and we have explained how the money has been spent in the past year, I've given a brief review of scientific highlights, and then a new budget for the coming year has been presented for the information and perhaps action of each donor, and present at that meeting is often the research director of that company and nowadays or in 1981, I didn't know any of them and although I shook hands with them, I didn't remember their names. Q. Is that the only meetings you can recall with the research director of Philip Morris? A. At the time that I spoke with members of Philip Morris Corporation in North Carolina, I believe the research di•rector of Philip Morris was present. Q. What was the purpose of that meeting? A. It was an opportunity for the board of directors to inspect a new manufacturing plant, to hold a regularly scheduled meeting and to have a reception and dinner and I was asked to give a speech. Q. What are grant and contract meetings of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. They are a way of describing the usual waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nath/bld Awnu. W.a Oran9., N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CT ~ H~~ c~~ 122

C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 306 scheduled meetings at which applications are reviewed and action is taken on approving, disapproving and waiting for funding of various applications, and if there are pending or continuation contracts involved, likewise decisions on these. Q. Who attends those meetings? A. The members of the Scientific Advisory Board and, as I already testified, the president or chairman, the vice-president or lately the president, if possible the retired research director and the retired vice-president and a representative of the industry technical committee and Mr. Zahn. Q. Why does Mr. Zahn attend those meetings? A. I don't know. Q. Why does a representative of the industry technical committee attend those meetings? A. Most members or all members of the SAB know very little, if anything, about tobacco, the constituents of tobacco or its smoke and he is there to answer any questions or provide any technical advice about tobacco or tobacco products or smoke components. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Nathti.ld Awnu. W.st Orsnp•. N. J. 07052 201-731-9858 CTR HN 0 1~12-3

i l. 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sommers - direct 307 Q• Are lawyers representing the funding companies in attendance at these grant and contract meetings? A. No. Q. Are other representatives of the funding companies at Council for Tobacco Research present at these grants and contract meetings other th an in their capacity as a member of the ITC? A. No . And I don't believe that the industry technica l committee representative is a lawyer and I don't know whether or not he is a representative f th t b i d t o e us ry per se. o acco n Q. Do attorneys representing the Council for Tobacco Research attend such meetings? A No . . MR. EDELL: Let's take a short break. (Short break.) Q. Do you know a Kenneth Austin? A. I don't recall him. l G Q. Pau ross? A. _-Any other initial~ or address? Q. I believe he may have done some work down at Duke . A. No, I don't recall. waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 NorthHNd Avsnu. West Owy., N. J. 07052 201-731-9888 CTR, 1`t t'4 015124

Sommers - direct 308 , L 1 Q. Harvey Haag? 2 3 4 5 6 7 $ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No, I don't recall. Q. Marvin Kastenbaum? A. Yes, Marvin Kastenbaum is a statistician who is an employee of the Tobacco Institute. Q. Have you had any contact with him in a professional capacity? A. Yes. Q. In what regard? A. In my regular reading of the medical literatur,e, almost every day I have to deal with papers that involve statistical mathematics, and times and methods are so abstruse, I just can't understand them and I will ask a variety of people who spend full time in that field what are these techniques and what do they mean and I don't like to ask the same one every time just because of the trouble involved so I ask Mr. Kastenbaum. Q. Does he provide you with written analysis of studies? A. He has, I think, once. Q. What is the planning committee of the Council for Tobacco Research? A. Well, it's a name for an older section of the Scientific Advisory Board members subcommittee 405 NonMfNd Awnu. VWtt Or.ny., N. J. 07052 201•731•9688 waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters CTR HN 0 15 I2S

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 18 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Sommers - direct 309 that was supposed to look towards new areas of opportunity for high quality research. Q. Who comprise that committee? A. Well, it differed at various times, and when I first joined the Council SAB, I was not on it and I don't remember when I went on it or who the other members are. I could tell you for this year who the members of this successor committee are. Q. Maybe it would be easier if you told me typically who would be members. For instance, are they people from the Scientific Advisory Board? Are they members of the donor companies? A. No. The planning committee, as I said, is always a subcommittee made up of certain members of the Scientific Advisory Board. Q. Have you done any work for the Tobacco Institute? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did you ever have any contact with Ann Duffin? A. Yes, I have met Ann Duffin and beyond that, I don't remember any relationship. 231 Q. Do you recall from time to time Ann 24 25 Duffin sending you materials to review in terms of evaluating their accuracy? ~- waga and spinelli 405 NathifNd Awnw certified shorthand reporters ' ~ 1~~86N. J. 07052 , CTR 1`11N OVE:512-6

Sommers - direct 310 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I remember her asking me questions either in person or over the telephone. I have no memory of any specific written communications from her but there may be. MR. EDELL: See you next week, Dr. Sommers. (Deposition concluded at 2:50 p.m.) waga and spinelli certified shorthand reporters 405 Northfi.id Awnu• VWst Orany#, N. J. 07052 201•731•9666 CTR ~°~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~'~

0 311 ~ 1 JURAT 2 I, SHELDON C. SOMMERS, do hereby 3 certify that I have read the foregoing transcript 4 of my testimony , taken on Friday, October 3, 1986, 5 and have signed it subject to the following 6 han es: g c 7 PA GE LINE CORRECTION t 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 DATE: 22 Sworn and subsc of ribed to before me this day 23 NOTARY PUBLIC 24 25 405 NorthflNd Avenue waga and spinelli VWst Oranqe, N. J. 07052 certified shorthand reporters 201•731•9888 C1 R f I1't 01EE51226

2 3 4 5 6 7 ~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C E R T I F I C A T E I, MARGARET J. TEILHABER, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the States of New York and New Jersey, do hereby certify that prior to the commencement of the examination the witness was sworn by me to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do further certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of the testimony as taken stenographically by and before me at the time, place and on the date hereinbefore set forth. I do further certify that I am neither of counsel nor attorney for any party in this action and that I am not interested in the event nor outcome of this li tigation. , \ ~,. Notary Public of t he States of New Jersey and New York New Jersey certificate No. X100856 New Jersey commission expires August 7, 1991 New York Registration No. 4741157 New York term expires March 30, 1987 Dated : WAGA & SPINELLI, 405 Northfield Avenue, West Orange, N.J. 07052 CTR HN 015129